You Can Become Greatest Devotee

23 Jan 77 , Bhubanesvara

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Prabhupada: varnasrama-dharma, four varnas and four asrama -- brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra -- so the Vedic culture means to execute the varnasrama-dharma. Now we are known as Hindus. The Hindu word is not to be found... [break] A little disturbance will mar the situation. So, Vedic culture means this varnasrama-dharma. The Muhammadans from the other side of river Sindhu, they have called us Hindu. Actually, this word "Hindu" you'll not find any Vedic scripture. So to accept this position-brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa -- is compulsory. It is not that one has to take sannyasa as a fashion. No. Actually it is absolutely necessary for any person at the last stage of life to accept sannyasa. This Ramananda Raya also retired from the government service. He met Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised him that "Now you retire from your governorship and come to Jagannatha Puri, your home, and let us talk together about spiritual life." So in this way he retired. So all the associates of Caitanya Mahaprabhu-sri-rupa sanatana bhatta-raghunatha sri-jiva gopala-bhatta dasa-raghunatha-Six Gosvamis, the direct disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they were all in renounced order of life. Then? Read. You read. You'll hear.

Indian man (2): "Although the Gosvamis were very aristocratic, they became mendicant just to deliver the fallen souls according to the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

Prabhupada: About Gosvamis, Srinivasa Acarya, he has written, tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. (child talking) (aside:) Please take out. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim. They were ministers. Naturally their associates were very, very big zamindars and rich men, asesa-mandala-pati-srenim. Mandala-pati means leaders, social, political. So, gave up their company. Explain. Why? Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. Dina-ganesakau, the poor mass of people... We are thinking that we are advancing, but actually we are becoming poverty-stricken. So this very word is used, dina-ganesakau karunaya. So this time is always. Unless the social leaders, the leaders of the society, they take care of the mass of people to educate them, dina-ganesakau karunaya, if they do not become compassionate to the poor mass of people, who will deliver them?

They are poor because they have no spiritual conception of life. So that situation is always existing; therefore it is the duty of the leaders of the society, especially of the brahmanas and ksatriyas, to take sannyasa and preach Krsna consciousness to the mass of people. Dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. Now we have got experience that many big, big leaders in political field... We have seen this noncooperation movement. They also took sannyasa practically. But they could not live long because they could not tolerate the position of renouncement. But about the Gosvamis it is said,

tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat
bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau
gopi-bhava-rasamrtabdhi-lahari-kallola-magnau muhur
vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau...

There must be engagement, proper engagement. If the engagement is not Krsna consciousness, then this so-called sannyasa will be failure. Practically in Calcutta there was a big barrister, C. R. Das, he renounced everything, but he could not live long. Very shortly he died. [ ...was their position. [break] Sannyasa means to renounce for the Supreme, sannyasa. Sat-nyasa. If one takes to Krsna consciousness and if he renounces family life and preaches Krsna consciousness, then he will be happy, and the persons amongst whom he will preach, they will be happy. We have seen practically, many, many big, big sannyasis, they gave up this world -- brahma satya jagan mithya: "This world is mithya. Let me take sannyasa." But unfortunately, they could not stand in that position. After few years they come down again in social work, in political work. That means they could not understand what is Brahman. That is stated, confirmed in the sastra, that

ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas
tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah
aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah
patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah
 [SB 10.2.32]

Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa. Ye aravindaksa. Aravindaksa is Krsna. "Persons who are thinking that 'I have become liberated,' vimukta-manina, they're actually... They're not mukta. Therefore," aruhya krcchrena param padam, "although they underwent very severe austerities and achieved the position in nirvisesa-brahma," aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32], "but because they could not understand, my Lord, Your lotus feet, they," patanty adho, "they fall down." Just like in the modern age they are going very high by aeroplane or sputnik, but because they do not get a shelter in either the moon planet or Mars planet, they again come down. So simply speculative knowledge, philosophical knowledge, will not give us actual shelter in the nirvisesa, nirakara-brahman. Absolute Truth we can realize in three stages. This is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj jnanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmeti
bhagavan iti sabdyate
 [SB 1.2.11]

Yes. The brahmanu-bhuti is simply negation of this material world. Brahma satya jagan mithya. But brahmanu-bhuti is not final. We are part and parcel of Krsna, sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. So simply understanding of our eternity-aham brahmasmi -- is not sufficient. So that is only appreciation of the eternity portion. And then, if one further makes progress, he... Paramatma. Paramatma means cit, cid-amsa. And lastly, unless we come to the shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna, there is no ananda. And every one of us-anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). God is also anandamaya. We, being part and parcel of God, we are also seeking after ananda. So you cannot get permanent ananda either by Brahman realization or Paramatma realization. Unless you come to God realization, Personality of Godhead, there is no ananda.

ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis
tabhir ya eva nija-rupataya kalabhih
goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhuto
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.37]

Govinda, Krsna, is ananda-cinmaya-rasa. He is in the ananda cinmaya. His ananda is not jara-rasa. It is cinmaya-rasa. We should not understand or misunderstand Krsna's lila is just like ordinary human activity. Srila Jiva Gosvami has described this Krsna's ananda, that,

radha krsna-pranaya-vikrtir hladini saktir asmad
ekatmanav api bhuvi pura deha-bhedam gatau tau

sri-caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam...
 [Cc. Adi 1.5]

So we should understand Krsna, how He is ananda-cinmaya vigraha. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is ananda-cinmaya vigraha, combination of hladini sakti, Srimati Radharani, and Krsna together. Therefore the Vaisnava sings, sri-krsna-caitanya radha-krsna nahe anya. Radha-krsna nahe anya. If we take shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, then there is possibility to understand the Krsna science.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to impregnate or push this movement throughout the world through the mercy of Sri Krsna Caitanya. And actually it is happening. By taking shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, these Europeans and Americans, although they are supposed to be born in mleccha, yavana family, they are taking Krsna consciousness so seriously. Otherwise it is very difficult to understand Krsna.

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascid vetti mam tattvatah
 [Bg. 7.3]

Out of many many millions of persons, one is interested how to become perfect. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. Siddhi means to understand one's own position. Therefore we request everyone to take shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to understand Krsna. Srila Rupa Gosvami he has given his direction,

namo maha-vadanyaya
krsna-prema-pradaya te
krsnaya krsna-caitanya
namne gaura-tvise namah
 [Cc. Madhya 19.53]

Idea is Srila Rupa Gosvami, offering his obeisances to Caitanya Mahaprabhu, namo maha-vadanyaya: "The greatest munificent charitable person because You are giving Krsna-prema. Nobody can understand Krsna, but You are giving Krsna-prema." Namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te krsnaya krsna-caitanya [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. "You are Krsna. You have appeared again as Krsna Caitanya. Therefore I offer my obeisances." Similarly Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, who was the learned scholar, pandita, in the assembly of Maharaja Prataparudra... [break] ...sabha-pandita. So he also has written many verses. One of them is that,

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-
siksartham ekah purusah puranah
sri-krsna-caitanya-sarira-dhari
krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye
 [Cc. Madhya 6.254]

"This Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the same person." Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti. "In order to teach Krsna consciousness, He has now appeared as Krsna Caitanya." Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti yoga-siksartham ekah purusah puranah [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Sasvata-purana. Krsna is the Purana. Nava-yauvanam ca. In the Brahma-samhita it is said, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam purana nava-yauvanam ca [Bs. 5.33]. He's the oldest person, adi-purusa, but nava-yauvana. So in every way you'll find that if we want to understand Krsna, then we have to take shelter of this Krsna's renounced order of life in the form of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

So Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu's one of the confidential devotees was an Oriya, this Ramananda Raya and Sikhi Mahiti. So it is a great opportunity for the Oriyas to understand Krsna consciousness science through the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We are discussing the talks between Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya. You'll kindly hear and take advantage of it and be benefited. [break] So we can, if they require, any question-answer. [break]

Guest (1): ...Krsna consciousness in grhastha asrama?

Prabhupada: They follow Sri Ramananda Raya. He was a grhastha. He was a responsible government officer. Still, he was the best disciple of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Ramananda Raya, while talking with Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he was feeling little shamefulness because Caitanya Mahaprabhu was a great sannyasi and coming from a very respectable brahmana family, and Ramananda Raya, he belonged to the Kharan(?) caste of Orissa, and he was grhastha, at the same time in government service. So he was feeling little shamefulness, that "I am teaching Caitanya Mahaprabhu." So when he was feeling like that, Caitanya Mahaprabhu encouraged him,

kiba vipra kiba sudra nyasi kene naya
yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya
 [Cc. Madhya 8.128]

"You become a sannyasi or you become a grhastha or you are a brahmana or a sudra. The Krsna consciousness has nothing to do with these material things. If you know actually what is Krsna, then you can become guru." Another place also, Krsna, er, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that

yei bhaje sei bada abhakta hina chara
krsna-bhajane te nahi jati-kuladi-vicara
 [Cc. Antya 4.67]

"Anyone who is a devotee, he is great, and who is not devotee, he may declare himself as great, but he is the most fallen." In the devotional service there is no such distinction as jati and kula. So if you follow -- the example is there in your country, Ramananda Raya -- then wherever you are, you are exalted. Narottama dasa Thakura, he has also said -- he is acarya-grhe va vanete thake ha gauranga bale dake narottama mage tara sanga: "It doesn't matter whether he is a grhastha or he's a sannyasi." Vanete means vanaprastha, sannyasi. "Wherever he may be, if he's actually a perfect devotee of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I want his association. Never mind." Grhe va vanete thake ha gauranga bale dake narottama mage tara sanga.

So Krsna bhajana is so magnanimous, so exalted, in any position you can become the greatest guru, provided you follow the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. [break] ...says how one can become perfect. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things. Simply think of Krsna, this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra -- Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare... So you remain grhastha. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said, namasraya kari thakaha apana kaje. In whatever occupation you are, remain there. There is no need of changing. But namasraya kari. If you remain a grhastha, what is your loss if you chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra? And if there is gain, why don't you take it? Simple thing. And Krsna also says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru, mam evaisyasi asamsayah [Bg. 18.65]. These four things will get you back to home, back to Godhead. What is that? Simply think of Krsna. But if from the very beginning you want to understand the meaning of Krsna -- "Krsna is nirakara. He has no hand, He has no leg" -- then how you'll think of Krsna? You have to give up all this nonsense idea. Then wherever you live, you will be perfect by Krsna consciousness. [break] ...Kali-yuga the special advantage is that people cannot become very much advanced in spiritual life, but for Kali-yuga there is a special concession. Kalau nasty nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha. Harer nama harer nama harer nama iva kevalam [Cc. Adi 17.21]. And Srimad-Bhagavatam also, it is confirmed, kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sanga param vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. So you remain grhastha. It is now difficult to give up grhastha life. But don't be merged into this black hole. Don't make black hole tragedy. Be alive, take to Krsna consciousness, and you'll be happy. So there is no distinction in Krsna-bhajana whether one is a grhastha  or a sannyasi. He must take the science. Then he will be all right.

Guest (3) (Indian man): ...without taking diksa from the guru also utters the name of Lord Krsna with devotion and...

Prabhupada: There is no devotion unless you go to a guru. Forget it. Adau gurvasrayam. First thing is, first business, is to accept a bona fide guru. Otherwise there is no devotion. It is simply false imitation. This is the injunction of Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. Adau gurvasrayam: "Your first business is to approach bona fide guru and take his asraya." Otherwise there is no devotion. That has been the defect in the modern society. They imagine. This business should be given up. He must follow. Sadhu-marganugamanam, which is prescribed by the sadhu, guru, you have to accept that. You cannot manufacture your own way.

Guest (3): The world is so vast, and people who are living in this world and also wishing to attain God or remember God or say about the God... Also the namaskaram is, Gurudeva said, that, mentioned in the Gita, that all these are fruitless, the soul which is remembering God either in the form of Krsna, but he has not met a guru. Because to get a real guru is a real occasion. It doesn't happen in the case of everyone. One in million get a chance to get a real spiritual guide. There are so many in the name of spiritual guide. And he will false pray because his inner soul hankers and inner soul thinks that "This is my guru, and somehow I will accept whatever he says." And the ultimate aim and objective is to love God or to recite his name or surrender to Him.

Prabhupada: This question has been answered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu while He was teaching Srila Rupa Gosvami.

ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija
 [Cc. Madhya 19.151]

The guru word is there. Guru Krsna. If you are actually hankering after Krsna -- Krsna is within yourself -- He will give you a guru. He will give you a guru. Guru-krsna-krpaya. But we must be fortunate to get real guru. If I am unfortunate, I'll not get a guru. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]? Mali hana se bija kariya aropana. In this way you'll find in the Caitanya-caritamrta. So even Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He accepted guru, Isvara Puri. He is Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna Himself. As Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya said that,

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-
siksartham ekah purusah puranah
sri-krsna-caitanya sarira dhari...
 [Cc. Madhya 6.254]

He's the purusa Purana, Krsna, but now He has appeared as Krsna Caitanya. So he also accepted guru, what to speak of our... Krsna also accepted guru. So how you will get the ultimate goal of life without accepting guru? Why do you manufacture this idea? There is no need of manufacturing this. You have to follow. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you manufacture, then you'll be cheated. Don't do this. That has become a fashion, that you manufacture your own way of service. That is not possible. Therefore Rupa Gosvami stresses, adau-gurvasrayam: "The first business is that you must find out a bona fide guru." Then other things.

Guest (4) (Indian man): Gurudeva said the only aim of human being is to surrender to Sri Krsna, to the lotus feet of Sri Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (4): In India especially, there are so many temples and gods and goddesses...

Prabhupada: That has been described in the Bhagavad-gita. Those who are hrta-jnanah, less intelligent, all these gods and goddess are for them. Hrta-jnanah. Kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah yajante anya devatah [Bg. 7.20]. "Those who are after other demigods, they are hrta-jnanah." Hrta-jnanah means they have got little knowledge -- that is taken away by maya. Mayayapahrta-jnana. These words are there. So this demigod worship is for the less intelligent class of men, not the actual intellectuals. Actual intellectual is he-bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So he's actual intelligent, when he surrenders to Krsna. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah [Bg. 7.19].  So the demigod worship is recommended for the less intelligent class of men. Otherwise, to surrender to Krsna is the highest stage of perfection.

Guest (5) (Indian man): Sir, what is the difference between renunciation and surrender?

Prabhupada: Yes. Renunciation is the beginning of this material world. You cannot take, you cannot surrender to Krsna, unless you renounce this ma.... If you have got material necessities... Sarva-dharman parityajva. Krsna says, "Absolute surrender." And if you want material necessities, then you have got so many dharmas -- this dharma, that dharma, social dharma, family dharma, national dharma, community dharma, and so on, so on. But Krsna demands, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. So it is not very easy thing. Therefore renunciation and surrender. Surrender means full renunciation, no reservation. And renunciation means you renounce something and keep something. That is difference.

Guest (5): Supposing any person, he renounces everything, his material property, and if he just came to Krsna consciousness. Can he live?

Prabhupada: We are living. You can see practically. We have got more than one hundred centers, and we are maintaining at least ten thousand men, just like these Europeans. And you have seen our opulence. We are advertised as fabulously rich. You can see here also. We have got at least four cars here. Who has got four cars? Don't you see how we are living?

Guest (5): Sir, what I meant... Supposing...

Prabhupada: No. Your question is that... We are living very opulently because we are surrendered to Krsna. That is point. So if you come to us you will also live very opulently. Surrender. Do that by practical seeing. We have no anxiety. Do you know what is our expenditure? In New York we are spending twelve lakhs of rupees per month. Only in New York. Similarly, in Los Angeles we have got huge expenditure. And our income is also, daily, five lakhs. You can see. Take our account. Audit. People do not touch as soon as one hears, "Oh, it is a religious group." And we are selling religious books, this Bhagavata and Srimad Bhagavad-gita, six lakhs of rupees daily. Can you imagine?

Guest (6) (Indian man): Where is this consciousness of surrender come in human life? At what stage it can come?

Prabhupada: At any moment. You must be prepared. Krsna said, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you have got intelligence, you can do it immediately. Where is the difficulty? But you'll not do it. They have done it, these young boys. They have no other business. And Krsna assures, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah: Don't hesitate. But we are hesitating. So there is no surrender. So all right, you remain under the clutches of maya and suffer. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. Maya is very strong. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti  As soon as you surrender to Krsna immediately you are mukta.  Immediately, instantly. It is in your hand. You follow Krsna's instruction, do the needful, you are mukta. Chant Hare Krsna

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada! (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Evening Lecture -- Bhuvanesvara, January 23, 1977

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How Can I Be God?

How Can I Be God?

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
Hawaii, January 23, 1974

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Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)

satyam saucam daya ksantis
tyagah santosa arjavam
samo damas tapah samyam
titiksoparatih srutam

jnanam viraktir aisvaryam
sauryam tejo balam smrtih
svatantryam kausalam kantir
dhairyam mardavam eva ca

pragalbhyam prasrayah silam
saha ojo balam bhagah
gambhiryam sthairyam astikyam
kirtir mano 'nahankrtih

ete canye ca bhagavan
nitya yatra maha-gunah
prarthya mahattvam icchadbhir
na viyanti sma karhicit

tenaham guna-patrena
sri-nivasena sampratam
socami rahitam lokam
papmana kalineksitam

Prabhupada: So Dharitri, the earthly planet, was lamenting that "Due to the contamination done by the Kali, I am thinking I am lost of all these good qualities." So saucam, satyam, truthfulness. We must remember always that we are part and parcel of God. So we have all the good qualities of God; that is our nature. Just like the drop of the ocean water, it has got all the qualities of the ocean. There is no doubt about it. Therefore, even if we little drop of ocean water, because the ocean water is salty, we taste the water salty. The salt is there also, but in minute quantity. The ocean has got millions and trillions of tons of salt, and here, in the drop of the water, there is a grain of salt. But salt is there. Another example: just like a little portion of gold. So that is also gold; it is not iron. So naturally, in our original position we have got all the good qualities of God. Now, due to the material contamination, the godly qualities are now covered. The godly qualities are there, but it is covered. That covering is possible due to our very minuteness, very small quantity. Therefore we are fallible, but Krsna is not fallible.

Another example: big fire and the spark. The spark is also fire, but it has got the potency to become extinguished. Suppose a spark falls down from the original fire, down. It is extinguished. But the big fire does not extinguish. Therefore the big fire, or Krsna, is infallible. His name is Acyuta, infallible. The Mayavada philosopher says that "We are in maya, and as soon as the maya is taken away, we are God." So we are not God, but we manifest our godly qualities when maya is taken away. So long we are covered by maya, our godly qualities are not manifest, but we are not God. Or you are God, but not that God, that big God, but you are a particle of. You can say, "I am God," but you are not that original, chief God. That you are not. This is our philosophy. And that is very genuine. How can I be God? If I am God, then why I have lost my godly qualities? Or why my godly qualities are now covered? This is very common sense. The godly qualities are there. Just like a small particle of the spark, it is carbon. When it comes out of the fire, then it is extinguished. But if you put again to the fire, it is carbon, again bright, brightened. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God, but if we fall down from the association of God, then we become..., appearing like material. But we are not material. It appears that extinguished. This is simultaneously... Acintya-bhedabheda-tattva. We are simultaneously one and different. As part and parcel in quality, we are one; but in quantity God is great, we are small particle.

So originally, we have got all these qualities:

satyam saucam daya ksantis
tyagah santosa arjavam
samo damas tapah samyam
titiksoparatih srutam

Everything is there. But due to material contamination, especially in this age, Kali-yuga... The Kali-yuga is very strong. Time is very strong, that even in contact, coming in contact with Krsna consciousness, they are falling. They are falling. That is due to Kali-yuga. Therefore Mother Dharitri is... Socami rahitam lokam papmana kalineksitam: "Now the Kali-yuga has come. I'm thinking that... I'm very much disturbed that people are losing their original qualities." These qualities are not to be acquired. These qualities are there, but it is covered. Just like a sharpened knife. The cutting power is there, but when it is covered by dirt, it does not cut.

So this is due to our material contamination. Therefore we have to revive it. That sharpness, we have to revive. That is Krsna consciousness movement. If one is actually Krsna conscious, then these qualities will be visible in his person. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. That is the test. If one is actually advanced in Krsna consciousness, you'll not find any fault in him. That is Krsna consciousness. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana. If one has got unflinching faith and devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunaih, all the good qualities. These are the good qualities, mentioned here: satyam saucam, samo damah santosa arjavam, samyam, so many, twenty-six good qualities of Vaisnava. These good qualities will be manifest. Then we understand, "Oh, here is actually a pure devotee." A pure devotee cannot be contaminated, just like God cannot be contaminated. But we are part and parcel, a small God. We can say, "God, I am God," but if you have got sense, you will say that "I am not the great God, but I am small God." That is sense. Because you have got the God qualities, you are not the Supreme. That is not possible. Supreme is Supreme. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. That is the Vedic injunction, that He is the chief of the eternals. We are all eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. We are not lost or dead on account of our annihilation of this body. That is not possible. Nityah sasvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. As God is eternal, we are also eternal. As God is sasvata, we are also sasvata, but small, acintya-bhedabheda. This is our philosophy.

So Krsna consciousness movement means to revive the original consciousness. If one is actually in Krsna, he'll be truthful. Truthfulness. These are the qualities. Cleanliness, always clean, taking thrice bath. Cloth clean, mind clean, body clean, activities clean, desire clean, thinking clean -- everything clean. No contamination. This is the test. "I am doing all nasty things, and I am advertising ‘I am advanced devotee.' " What rascal you are? You are doing all nonsense and you are advanced? But they have no shame even, to call themselves... Shameless. Shameless, even not gentlemen. Cheating, and still, he is advertising, "I am advanced." But a person who is actually in Krsna consciousness or actual... Sadhu-sastra-guru-vakya, tinete koriya aikya. We have to...

Just like if you go to the chemical laboratory, you are testing the characteristic. In the book there is characteristic, even an ordinary chemical. Now, they say... Take, for example, salt. It is called? Chemical name is sodium chloride. Eh? Sodium chloride. So in the book you'll find sodium chloride, and the characteristics, "It is like this. It is like this. It is like this." The color, the taste, the composition, so many things are there. Similarly... How we are testing the purity of sodium chloride? From the books. Similarly, here is the characteristic of pure devotee. Characteristics. You test whether he's truthful. "He's not truthful, sir." Then he's not pure devotee. He's doing something... He promised before his spiritual master, before the Deity, before the fire, "No illicit sex," but he's having illicit sex. So how he is advanced? How he's advanced? He's not even truthful, the first qualification. He's unclean. Truthfulness. Saucam, means very clean. Very clean means... Just... We utter this mantra,

apavitrah pavitro va
sarvavastham gato 'pi va
yah smaret pundarikaksam
sa bahyabhyantara-sucih

Suci, saucam, suci.

So the devotee must be clean, inside and outside, both. Outside cleaning by taking bath, washing the body with oil or soap or soda, and inside, inside, materially, there will be no unclean things, stool, unnecessary stool. That means one must evacuate every morning and evening. If we eat more, then we have to evacuate twice. But if we eat less, then once evacuation is sufficient. It is said, yogi, bhogi, and rogi. Yogi means spiritually advanced, and bhogi means materialist, and rogi means diseased. It is a common saying. A yogi evacuates only once. That is yogi. And bhogi, because he eats more, so he evacuates twice. And one who evacuates more than twice, he's rogi, diseased. Yogi, bhogi, rogi. So everything has got routine work. saucam. So you'll feel healthy. If you have evacuated nicely, you have washed inside and outside, taken your bath, then you'll feel always refreshed. And unless you feel refreshed, you cannot very nicely chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra or serve Krsna. Therefore cleanliness is required. Apavitrah pavitro va. But... Apavitrah pavitro va sarvavastham gato 'pi va. If one takes to Krsna consciousness and follows the rules and regulations, then automatically he becomes clean, inside and outside. Automatically. Apavitrah pavitro va. What for we are accepting initiation? In any condition, in any condition we shall be purified by chanting Hare Krsna, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], if we chant really.

There are three stages of chanting. One chanting is with offense, beginning. There are ten kinds of offenses. We have described many times. If we chant with offense, that is the, that is one stage. If we chant offenseless, that is one stage. And if we chant pure... Offenseless is not yet pure. You're trying to make offenseless, but not yet offenseless. But when there is pure chanting, that is success. Nama, namabhasa, and suddha-nama. So our aim is... This was discussed. You'll find in Caitanya-caritamrta, discussion between Haridasa Thakura and a brahmana. So by chanting, we can come to the highest stage of perfection. In the beginning there may be offenses, but if we try to avoid the offenses, then it is namabhasa. Namabhasa means not actually pure name, but almost pure. Namabhasa, and suddha-nama. When one chants suddha-nama, name, holy name of God, then he is on the platform of loving platform with Krsna. That is the perfectional stage. And in namabhasa stage, not in pure, marginal, between pure and offensive, that is mukti. You become mukta, liberated from material bondage. And if we chant offensively, then we remain in the material world. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said, namakara bahira haya nama nahi haya(?). It is mechanical, "Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna," but still it is not Hare Krsna. Namakara, nama bahira haya, namakara, nama nahi haya.

So we must be purely chanting. But we should not be disappointed. Even impure... Therefore we must have fixed chanting process. Because we are not in the pure stage. Therefore, by force... Just like a boy in the school. We had this training in our childhood school. Our teacher would ask me, "You write ten pages, handwriting." So that means practicing ten pages, my handwriting will be set up. So even if we do not follow sixteen rounds, where is the question of chanting Hare Krsna? So don't be artificial; don't be, I mean to say, a showbottle. Be real thing. And that is wanted. If you want real benefit of spiritual life, don't be showbottle. Do you know showbottle? The medical shop, a big bottle. It is full of water only. And color is red or blue or something like. But the real medicine does not require... (aside:) No, not now. Real medicine does not require a showbottle. A small... If one can chant purified offenseless, once krsna-nama, he is free from all material bondage. Once only. Eka krsna name yata papa haya, papi haya tata papa kari baro nahi(?).

So saucam. saucam means inward cleanliness and outward cleanliness. saucam. Inside, we should be pure, purely thinking, no contamination. We should not think anyone as my enemy. "Everyone is friend. I am... I am not pure; therefore I am thinking somebody as my enemy." There are so many symptoms. So saucam: one should be clean, inside and outside. Satyam saucam daya. That daya I already explained. Daya means to become compassionate to the fallen, one who has fallen, one who is in distress. So actually, the whole population at the present moment, they're fallen. Krsna says,

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham
 [Bg. 4.7]

paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
dharma-samsthapanarthaya
sambhavami yuge yuge
 [Bg. 4.8]

So at the present moment in the Kali, Kali-yuga, they are, practically they're all demons. All demons. So if Krsna... Of course, sometimes it will come that Krsna has to come here simply to kill the demons. That is Kalki avatara. That is described by Jayadeva Gosvami. What is that? Kesava dhrta-kalki-sarira jaya jagadisa hare. Kalau, dhumaketum iva kim api karalam, mleccha-nivaha-nidhane kalayasi karavalam. Mleccha, the mleccha, this word, yavana, these... There are words in Vedic language, mleccha, yavana. Yavana means meat-eaters. Yavana. It does not mean only Europeans are yavana, and Americans, not, Indians are not yavana. No. Anyone who eats meat, he's a yavana. Yavana means meat-eater. And mleccha means unclean. One who does not follow Vedic principles, he's called mleccha. Just like... As the Muhammadans say, kafir. One who does not follow Muslim religion, they are called kafir. That is religious point of view. And the Christians say "heathens." One who does not follow Christian religion, they are called heathens. Is it not? Similarly, anyone who does not follow Vedic principle, he's called mleccha. So time will come when nobody will follow Vedic principles of life. Therefore, mleccha.

So mleccha-nivaha, when all the people will become mlecchas, nobody following the Vedic principles, mleccha-nivaha-nidhane, at that time there is no more preaching, simply killing. Nivaha-nidhane kalayasi karavalam. In this age a very fearful, not feature, but action is very fearful. Mleccha-nivaha-nidhane kalayasi karavalam dhumaketum iva. Just like now they are apprehending the appearance of a comet. So Krsna will appear just like a comet. Dhumaketum iva, dhumaketum iva, dhumaketum iva. Kalayasi karavalam. So that is the end of Kali-yuga, that people will be so mlecchacara, unclean habits, they, dull... Now they have already become, already become. They have no brain. Even big, big, so-called... [break]

...maha-vadanya, very munificent incarnation. Or magnanimous. Maha-vadanyavatara. Namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema... He is giving krsna-prema, love of Krsna. You... One cannot understand Krsna. It is so difficult.

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascin mam vetti tattvatah
 [Bg. 7.3]

To understand Krsna is not easy job. But Krsna in the form of Caitanya Mahaprabhu is so compassionate, not only He's giving Himself, Krsna, but He's giving krsna-prema, love of Krsna. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's avatara. Daya. Maha-vadanyavatara. So whatever Krsna consciousness movement is going forward, it is due to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's magnanimous compassion for the poor people suffering in this Kali-yuga. Otherwise, to become Krsna conscious is not very easy job, is not easy job. So those who are getting the chance of becoming Krsna conscious by the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they should not lose the opportunity. It will be suicidal. Don't fall down. It is very easy. Simply chanting by Hare Krsna mantra, not always, twenty-four hours, although Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends, kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31], always chant. That is the principle. But we cannot do that because we are so much overwhelmed by the influence of Kali. So at least sixteen rounds. Don't miss this. Don't miss this. What is the difficulty, sixteen rounds? At most it will take two hours. You have got twenty-four hours. You want to sleep; all right, sleep, ten hours sleep. That is not recommended. Don't sleep more than six hours. But they want to sleep. They want to sleep twenty-four hours. That is their desire in Kali-yuga. But, no. Then you'll be wasting time. Minimize eating, sleeping, mating and defending. When it is nil, that is perfection.

Because these are bodily necessities. Eating, sleeping, mating, defending that is bodily necessities. But I am not this body. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram... [Bg. 2.13]. So that realization takes time. But when we are actually advancing in Krsna consciousness, we must know our duty. Sleeping not more than six hours. Utmost eight hours. Utmost, those who cannot control. But not ten hours, twelve hours, fifteen hours, no. Then what is the use of...? Somebody went to see one advanced devotee, and at nine o'clock he was sleeping. And he's advanced devotee. Eh? Is not that? So what is...? What kind of devotee he is? Devotee must rise early in the morning, by four o'clock. By five o'clock, he must finish his bathing and other things. Then he takes to chanting and so many... Twenty-four hours' business must be there. So sleeping is not good. The Gosvamis used to sleep only two hours. I also write at night book, and I also sleep, not more then three hours. But I take sometimes little, sleep more. Not like... I don't imitate the Gosvamis. That try to avoid. And avoid sleeping means if we eat less, then we'll avoid. Eating, sleeping. After eating, there is sleeping. So if we eat more, then more sleeping. If we eat less, then less sleeping. Eating, sleeping, mating. And mating should be avoided. That is a great stricture. Sex life should be minimized as far as possible. Therefore we have got this restriction, "No illicit sex." Sex life, we don't say... That you cannot do, nobody can do. Therefore sex life means married life, a little concession. A license, "All right, you take this license." But not illicit sex. Then you'll never be able.

So eating, sleeping, mating and defending. And defending, we are defending in so many ways, but still, war is there, and the onslaught of material nature... Your country is defending so nicely, but now the petrol is taken away. You cannot defend. Similarly, everything can be taken away at any moment. So depend on Krsna for defending, defenses. Avasya raksibe krsna. This is called surrender. Surrender, means... Krsna says that "You surrender unto Me," sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Let us believe this, that "Krsna is asking to surrender. Let me surrender. He must protect me in danger." That is called surrender. "Now, I am surrendering to Krsna, but for my defense I'm making another arrangement." Then I have no faith in Krsna. If I believe in Krsna, then we must believe that Krsna will... Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami. Believe. Satyam saucam daya ksantih. Ksanti means toleration? What is that? Hm? See ksanti.

Pradyumna: (reads) "Self-control even if there is cause of anger."

Prabhupada: Yes, tolerate, yes. Ksanti. We should not be intolerant. Even somebody has done some wrong unto me, tapasvi. Ksama-rupa-tapasvinam. Tapasvi, those who are advancing in Krsna consciousness, undergoing tapasya, austerities, their first qualification is to forgive the offender. This is the qualification. Tapasvinam. Ksama-rupa-tapasvinam. Then tyaga. Tyaga means to give your energy for Krsna. Everyone is giving energy for his sense gratification. When we give our energy, Krsna... Pararthe prajna utsrjet(?). This is Canakya Pandita. Sannimitte varam tyago vinas emiyate sati. Sannmivitte varamm tyagah(?). Tyaga means to give in charity for others' benefit. That is called tyaga. So what is the best tyaga? When you give up everything... [break]

...such thing. You do your best, but depend, the result, on Krsna. That is wanted. If somebody comes to attack you, you must also attack. You first attack. But you should not think that "I am so powerful. I can gain victory over you." Depend on Krsna, do your best. Yudhyasva mam anusmara [Bg. 8.7]. This is our policy. When there is question of fight, we have to fight. Just like in Bombay, we fought, but the result, we depended on Krsna. We have come out victorious. There was no hope of getting that land. It was regular fight. The whole Bombay city became agitated. Yes, in Bombay. But we are victorious, because we depended on Krsna. I thought... Simply I prayed to Krsna, "My dear Lord, You are seated there on that place. If You are removed, then it will be suicidal. You must remain there." My only prayer was that "I don't care for this land, but You are seated there, I cannot tolerate this insult that You will be removed from there." So Krsna saved our face. He's still remaining there.

So we should be like that. We should fight to our best, but depend the result on Krsna. Don't try to take the credit for yourself. That is wanted.

Devotee (1): So, Srila Prabhupada, should devotees in ISKCON, should a certain section of devotees in ISKCON be trained as ksatriyas? Should they be specially trained?

Prabhupada: Well, a devotee is neither ksatriya, neither brahmana; he's servant of Krsna. That's all. These brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, they are on the material platform. On the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction. Spiritual platform, the master and the servant. You remain a servant. If you have to act as ksatriya, act like that. If you act as a brahmana, act like that. If you... That is our superficial... A devotee's always servant of God. Whatever service is required, as a brahmana, as a ksatriya, as a vaisya, it doesn't matter. We are ready. It does not mean that because we are fighting, we become ksatriya. No. Sa gunan... These are the divisions of the three qualities. But a devotee's above... [break] ...all these things. Krsna's devotees are above all these things. You have to become a pure devotee, not a ksatriya, not a brahmana, not an all... That is not required. All right.

Devotee (2): You said that one mistake of the neophyte devotee is to think that he is suffering under some condition, some distress, and that it is due to the circumstances under which the distress occurred. And my question is, Can the change of one's service, can changing the type of service one's performing, can that help him to achieve the desired perfection in relationship with the spiritual master and Krsna?

Prabhupada: So what is the real proposal? I do not follow. Why don't you say frankly? This is... Why in a (laughs) jugglery way? State what is the fact?

Devotee (2): Well, like, if one is in a big temple, he's a cook in a big temple.

Prabhupada: Yes. In a big temple, the cooker and the man who is worshiping the Deity, and the man who is sweeping over, they're all one. There is no distinction. There is no such material dis... In the material world, if somebody's doing nice job, he is greater, and if somebody's not nice job, he's smaller. In spiritual world, there is no such distinction.

Devotee (2): So one is like that, in a comfortable situation...

Prabhupada: Comfortable situation is also sense gratification. Any situation, we shall have to serve Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness. Not that "If it is comfortable to me, I shall do it." That is sense gratification. That is sense gratification. That is not spiritual; that is material. "Comfortable or uncomfortable, it doesn't matter. If Krsna wants it, I must do it." That is wanted. That is wanted. As soon as I discriminate "This is comfortable, this is uncomfortable," that is material.

Devotee (3): Prabhupada, how can we know what type of service Krsna...

Prabhupada: Therefore you have got spiritual master. Why he is there? Therefore you have to accept spiritual master who will give you direction. You cannot do it. If you manufacture your own..., then go to hell. Yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau, tasyaite kathita hy arthah [SU 6.23]. Krsna is there; guru is there. Why should you manufacture your own way? If you are sincere, Krsna will dictate from within. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Find out this verse. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam, buddhi-yogam dadami tam.

Pradyumna: 10.10

Prabhupada: Krsna is ready to give you instruction. The spiritual master is ready. Why should you do at your whims, and do something wrong and go to hell? Yes?

Bali-mardana:

tesam satata-yuktanam
bhajatam priti-purvakam
dadami buddhi-yogam tam
yena mam upayanti te
 [Bg. 10.10]

"To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me."

Prabhupada: That's all. Krsna is within you. He'll give you. As soon as you become a pure devotee, all dictation will come from within. And besides that, Krsna is helping, inside and outside. Outside is spiritual master; inside Krsna Himself. Where is the difficulty? Simply you have to become sincere. That's all. Everything is there. But if we become cheaters, we do, say something before Krsna, before the spiritual master, before fire, and do something else, then there is no question of dictation from Krsna. You do your sat-san(?). Sva-karmana, by your own work, you suffer or enjoy. There is no enjoyment, simply suffering. That's all. Material world, there is no question of enjoyment. Simply we concoct, "This is enjoyment." This is not enjoyment. It is suffering.

Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupada, you spoke about the three stages of chanting? And you were speaking about the middle stage, the clearing stage? Is that... I didn't quite understand how that was explained. Is that like we're trying not to be offensive. It's offensive, but we're trying...

Prabhupada: No, you do not try to be offensive, but because your past habit, you become offensive. Therefore ten kinds of offenses should be avoided. That we speak and give in list when initiation. There should be... Ten kinds of offenses should be avoided. Guror avajna sruti-sastra-nindanam, samyam subha-kriya api pramadah, namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. These are things. The most offensive is that "Krsna... By chanting Hare Krsna mantra, I become sinless. So in the morning let me do, or in the, at night, let me do all sinful activities; in the morning I shall chant Hare Krsna, and it will, everything will be nullified." This is the greatest offense. Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. "Because I am chanting, therefore I can do anything sinful. It will be counteracted." This is the greatest rascaldom, sinful activities. Yes. Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. Papa-buddhih. Nama... By chanting Hare Krsna mantra we become immediately sinless. That's a fact. But why shall we commit again? Just like the Christian people, they go to the church, confession: "Sir, I did this, all these sinful activities last week." "All right, pay me something." Again, from Monday, beginning sinful activities; come on Sunday. These are not allowed. You can be excused, but don't do again. If you continue to do it, that is not very... Then you have to suffer. Once or twice, you may be excused. But if you continue to do that, you must be punished. Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. (indistinct question by devotee) Yes, everything under the direction of the spiritual master. Why you are asking? (indistinct) You do not know these things? Why do you ask this question? It must be, according to the direction of the spiritual master. Why do you ask that question? Therefore, adau gurvasrayam. Whatever... [break] (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30 -- Hawaii, January 23, 1974

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

"You Can Become Greatest Devotee"

23 Jan 77 , Bhubanesvara


Prabhupada: varnasrama-dharma, four varnas and four asrama -- brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra -- so the Vedic culture means to execute the varnasrama-dharma. Now we are known as Hindus. The Hindu word is not to be found... [break] A little disturbance will mar the situation. So, Vedic culture means this varnasrama-dharma. The Muhammadans from the other side of river Sindhu, they have called us Hindu. Actually, this word "Hindu" you'll not find any Vedic scripture. So to accept this position-brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa -- is compulsory. It is not that one has to take sannyasa as a fashion. No. Actually it is absolutely necessary for any person at the last stage of life to accept sannyasa. This Ramananda Raya also retired from the government service. He met Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised him that "Now you retire from your governorship and come to Jagannatha Puri, your home, and let us talk together about spiritual life." So in this way he retired. So all the associates of Caitanya Mahaprabhu-sri-rupa sanatana bhatta-raghunatha sri-jiva gopala-bhatta dasa-raghunatha-Six Gosvamis, the direct disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they were all in renounced order of life. Then? Read. You read. You'll hear.

Indian man (2): "Although the Gosvamis were very aristocratic, they became mendicant just to deliver the fallen souls according to the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

Prabhupada: About Gosvamis, Srinivasa Acarya, he has written, tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. (child talking) (aside:) Please take out. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim. They were ministers. Naturally their associates were very, very big zamindars and rich men, asesa-mandala-pati-srenim. Mandala-pati means leaders, social, political. So, gave up their company. Explain. Why? Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. Dina-ganesakau, the poor mass of people... We are thinking that we are advancing, but actually we are becoming poverty-stricken. So this very word is used, dina-ganesakau karunaya. So this time is always. Unless the social leaders, the leaders of the society, they take care of the mass of people to educate them, dina-ganesakau karunaya, if they do not become compassionate to the poor mass of people, who will deliver them?

They are poor because they have no spiritual conception of life. So that situation is always existing; therefore it is the duty of the leaders of the society, especially of the brahmanas and ksatriyas, to take sannyasa and preach Krsna consciousness to the mass of people. Dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. Now we have got experience that many big, big leaders in political field... We have seen this noncooperation movement. They also took sannyasa practically. But they could not live long because they could not tolerate the position of renouncement. But about the Gosvamis it is said,

tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat
bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau
gopi-bhava-rasamrtabdhi-lahari-kallola-magnau muhur
vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau...

There must be engagement, proper engagement. If the engagement is not Krsna consciousness, then this so-called sannyasa will be failure. Practically in Calcutta there was a big barrister, C. R. Das, he renounced everything, but he could not live long. Very shortly he died. [break] ...was their position. [break] Sannyasa means to renounce for the Supreme, sannyasa. Sat-nyasa. If one takes to Krsna consciousness and if he renounces family life and preaches Krsna consciousness, then he will be happy, and the persons amongst whom he will preach, they will be happy. We have seen practically, many, many big, big sannyasis, they gave up this world -- brahma satya jagan mithya: "This world is mithya. Let me take sannyasa." But unfortunately, they could not stand in that position. After few years they come down again in social work, in political work. That means they could not understand what is Brahman. That is stated, confirmed in the sastra, that

ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas
tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah
aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah
patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah
[SB 10.2.32]

Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa. Ye aravindaksa. Aravindaksa is Krsna. "Persons who are thinking that 'I have become liberated,' vimukta-manina, they're actually... They're not mukta. Therefore," aruhya krcchrena param padam, "although they underwent very severe austerities and achieved the position in nirvisesa-brahma," aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32], "but because they could not understand, my Lord, Your lotus feet, they," patanty adho, "they fall down." Just like in the modern age they are going very high by aeroplane or sputnik, but because they do not get a shelter in either the moon planet or Mars planet, they again come down. So simply speculative knowledge, philosophical knowledge, will not give us actual shelter in the nirvisesa, nirakara-brahman. Absolute Truth we can realize in three stages. This is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj jnanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmeti
bhagavan iti sabdyate
[SB 1.2.11]

Yes. The brahmanu-bhuti is simply negation of this material world. Brahma satya jagan mithya. But brahmanu-bhuti is not final. We are part and parcel of Krsna, sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. So simply understanding of our eternity-aham brahmasmi -- is not sufficient. So that is only appreciation of the eternity portion. And then, if one further makes progress, he... Paramatma. Paramatma means cit, cid-amsa. And lastly, unless we come to the shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna, there is no ananda. And every one of us-anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). God is also anandamaya. We, being part and parcel of God, we are also seeking after ananda. So you cannot get permanent ananda either by Brahman realization or Paramatma realization. Unless you come to God realization, Personality of Godhead, there is no ananda.

ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis
tabhir ya eva nija-rupataya kalabhih
goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhuto
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.37]

Govinda, Krsna, is ananda-cinmaya-rasa. He is in the ananda cinmaya. His ananda is not jara-rasa. It is cinmaya-rasa. We should not understand or misunderstand Krsna's lila is just like ordinary human activity. Srila Jiva Gosvami has described this Krsna's ananda, that,

radha krsna-pranaya-vikrtir hladini saktir asmad
ekatmanav api bhuvi pura deha-bhedam gatau tau

sri-caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam...
[Cc. Adi 1.5]

So we should understand Krsna, how He is ananda-cinmaya vigraha. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is ananda-cinmaya vigraha, combination of hladini sakti, Srimati Radharani, and Krsna together. Therefore the Vaisnava sings, sri-krsna-caitanya radha-krsna nahe anya. Radha-krsna nahe anya. If we take shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, then there is possibility to understand the Krsna science.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to impregnate or push this movement throughout the world through the mercy of Sri Krsna Caitanya. And actually it is happening. By taking shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, these Europeans and Americans, although they are supposed to be born in mleccha, yavana family, they are taking Krsna consciousness so seriously. Otherwise it is very difficult to understand Krsna.

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascid vetti mam tattvatah
[Bg. 7.3]

Out of many many millions of persons, one is interested how to become perfect. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. Siddhi means to understand one's own position. Therefore we request everyone to take shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to understand Krsna. Srila Rupa Gosvami he has given his direction,

namo maha-vadanyaya
krsna-prema-pradaya te
krsnaya krsna-caitanya
namne gaura-tvise namah
[Cc. Madhya 19.53]

Idea is Srila Rupa Gosvami, offering his obeisances to Caitanya Mahaprabhu, namo maha-vadanyaya: "The greatest munificent charitable person because You are giving Krsna-prema. Nobody can understand Krsna, but You are giving Krsna-prema." Namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te krsnaya krsna-caitanya [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. "You are Krsna. You have appeared again as Krsna Caitanya. Therefore I offer my obeisances." Similarly Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, who was the learned scholar, pandita, in the assembly of Maharaja Prataparudra... [break] ...sabha-pandita. So he also has written many verses. One of them is that,

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-
siksartham ekah purusah puranah
sri-krsna-caitanya-sarira-dhari
krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye
[Cc. Madhya 6.254]

"This Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the same person." Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti. "In order to teach Krsna consciousness, He has now appeared as Krsna Caitanya." Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti yoga-siksartham ekah purusah puranah [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Sasvata-purana. Krsna is the Purana. Nava-yauvanam ca. In the Brahma-samhita it is said, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam purana nava-yauvanam ca [Bs. 5.33]. He's the oldest person, adi-purusa, but nava-yauvana. So in every way you'll find that if we want to understand Krsna, then we have to take shelter of this Krsna's renounced order of life in the form of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

So Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu's one of the confidential devotees was an Oriya, this Ramananda Raya and Sikhi Mahiti. So it is a great opportunity for the Oriyas to understand Krsna consciousness science through the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We are discussing the talks between Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya. You'll kindly hear and take advantage of it and be benefited. [break] So we can, if they require, any question-answer. [break]

Guest (1): ...Krsna consciousness in grhastha asrama?

Prabhupada: They follow Sri Ramananda Raya. He was a grhastha. He was a responsible government officer. Still, he was the best disciple of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Ramananda Raya, while talking with Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he was feeling little shamefulness because Caitanya Mahaprabhu was a great sannyasi and coming from a very respectable brahmana family, and Ramananda Raya, he belonged to the Kharan(?) caste of Orissa, and he was grhastha, at the same time in government service. So he was feeling little shamefulness, that "I am teaching Caitanya Mahaprabhu." So when he was feeling like that, Caitanya Mahaprabhu encouraged him,

kiba vipra kiba sudra nyasi kene naya
yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya
[Cc. Madhya 8.128]

"You become a sannyasi or you become a grhastha or you are a brahmana or a sudra. The Krsna consciousness has nothing to do with these material things. If you know actually what is Krsna, then you can become guru." Another place also, Krsna, er, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that

yei bhaje sei bada abhakta hina chara
krsna-bhajane te nahi jati-kuladi-vicara
[Cc. Antya 4.67]

"Anyone who is a devotee, he is great, and who is not devotee, he may declare himself as great, but he is the most fallen." In the devotional service there is no such distinction as jati and kula. So if you follow -- the example is there in your country, Ramananda Raya -- then wherever you are, you are exalted. Narottama dasa Thakura, he has also said -- he is acarya-grhe va vanete thake ha gauranga bale dake narottama mage tara sanga: "It doesn't matter whether he is a grhastha or he's a sannyasi." Vanete means vanaprastha, sannyasi. "Wherever he may be, if he's actually a perfect devotee of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I want his association. Never mind." Grhe va vanete thake ha gauranga bale dake narottama mage tara sanga.

So Krsna bhajana is so magnanimous, so exalted, in any position you can become the greatest guru, provided you follow the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. [break] ...says how one can become perfect. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things. Simply think of Krsna, this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra -- Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare... So you remain grhastha. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said, namasraya kari thakaha apana kaje. In whatever occupation you are, remain there. There is no need of changing. But namasraya kari. If you remain a grhastha, what is your loss if you chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra? And if there is gain, why don't you take it? Simple thing. And Krsna also says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru, mam evaisyasi asamsayah [Bg. 18.65]. These four things will get you back to home, back to Godhead. What is that? Simply think of Krsna. But if from the very beginning you want to understand the meaning of Krsna -- "Krsna is nirakara. He has no hand, He has no leg" -- then how you'll think of Krsna? You have to give up all this nonsense idea. Then wherever you live, you will be perfect by Krsna consciousness. [break] ...Kali-yuga the special advantage is that people cannot become very much advanced in spiritual life, but for Kali-yuga there is a special concession. Kalau nasty nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha. Harer nama harer nama harer nama iva kevalam [Cc. Adi 17.21]. And Srimad-Bhagavatam also, it is confirmed, kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sanga param vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. So you remain grhastha. It is now difficult to give up grhastha life. But don't be merged into this black hole. Don't make black hole tragedy. Be alive, take to Krsna consciousness, and you'll be happy. So there is no distinction in Krsna-bhajana whether one is a grhastha or a sannyasi. He must take the science. Then he will be all right.

Guest (3) (Indian man): ...without taking diksa from the guru also utters the name of Lord Krsna with devotion and...

Prabhupada: There is no devotion unless you go to a guru. Forget it. Adau gurvasrayam. First thing is, first business, is to accept a bona fide guru. Otherwise there is no devotion. It is simply false imitation. This is the injunction of Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. Adau gurvasrayam: "Your first business is to approach bona fide guru and take his asraya." Otherwise there is no devotion. That has been the defect in the modern society. They imagine. This business should be given up. He must follow. Sadhu-marganugamanam, which is prescribed by the sadhu, guru, you have to accept that. You cannot manufacture your own way.

Guest (3): The world is so vast, and people who are living in this world and also wishing to attain God or remember God or say about the God... Also the namaskaram is, Gurudeva said, that, mentioned in the Gita, that all these are fruitless, the soul which is remembering God either in the form of Krsna, but he has not met a guru. Because to get a real guru is a real occasion. It doesn't happen in the case of everyone. One in million get a chance to get a real spiritual guide. There are so many in the name of spiritual guide. And he will false pray because his inner soul hankers and inner soul thinks that "This is my guru, and somehow I will accept whatever he says." And the ultimate aim and objective is to love God or to recite his name or surrender to Him.

Prabhupada: This question has been answered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu while He was teaching Srila Rupa Gosvami.

ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija
[Cc. Madhya 19.151]

The guru word is there. Guru Krsna. If you are actually hankering after Krsna -- Krsna is within yourself -- He will give you a guru. He will give you a guru. Guru-krsna-krpaya. But we must be fortunate to get real guru. If I am unfortunate, I'll not get a guru. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]? Mali hana se bija kariya aropana. In this way you'll find in the Caitanya-caritamrta. So even Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He accepted guru, Isvara Puri. He is Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna Himself. As Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya said that,

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-
siksartham ekah purusah puranah
sri-krsna-caitanya sarira dhari...
[Cc. Madhya 6.254]

He's the purusa Purana, Krsna, but now He has appeared as Krsna Caitanya. So he also accepted guru, what to speak of our... Krsna also accepted guru. So how you will get the ultimate goal of life without accepting guru? Why do you manufacture this idea? There is no need of manufacturing this. You have to follow. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you manufacture, then you'll be cheated. Don't do this. That has become a fashion, that you manufacture your own way of service. That is not possible. Therefore Rupa Gosvami stresses, adau-gurvasrayam: "The first business is that you must find out a bona fide guru." Then other things.

Guest (4) (Indian man): Gurudeva said the only aim of human being is to surrender to Sri Krsna, to the lotus feet of Sri Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (4): In India especially, there are so many temples and gods and goddesses...

Prabhupada: That has been described in the Bhagavad-gita. Those who are hrta-jnanah, less intelligent, all these gods and goddess are for them. Hrta-jnanah. Kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah yajante anya devatah [Bg. 7.20]. "Those who are after other demigods, they are hrta-jnanah." Hrta-jnanah means they have got little knowledge -- that is taken away by maya. Mayayapahrta-jnana. These words are there. So this demigod worship is for the less intelligent class of men, not the actual intellectuals. Actual intellectual is he-bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So he's actual intelligent, when he surrenders to Krsna. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. So the demigod worship is recommended for the less intelligent class of men. Otherwise, to surrender to Krsna is the highest stage of perfection.

Guest (5) (Indian man): Sir, what is the difference between renunciation and surrender?

Prabhupada: Yes. Renunciation is the beginning of this material world. You cannot take, you cannot surrender to Krsna, unless you renounce this ma.... If you have got material necessities... Sarva-dharman parityajva. Krsna says, "Absolute surrender." And if you want material necessities, then you have got so many dharmas -- this dharma, that dharma, social dharma, family dharma, national dharma, community dharma, and so on, so on. But Krsna demands, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. So it is not very easy thing. Therefore renunciation and surrender. Surrender means full renunciation, no reservation. And renunciation means you renounce something and keep something. That is difference.

Guest (5): Supposing any person, he renounces everything, his material property, and if he just came to Krsna consciousness. Can he live?

Prabhupada: We are living. You can see practically. We have got more than one hundred centers, and we are maintaining at least ten thousand men, just like these Europeans. And you have seen our opulence. We are advertised as fabulously rich. You can see here also. We have got at least four cars here. Who has got four cars? Don't you see how we are living?

Guest (5): Sir, what I meant... Supposing...

Prabhupada: No. Your question is that... We are living very opulently because we are surrendered to Krsna. That is point. So if you come to us you will also live very opulently. Surrender. Do that by practical seeing. We have no anxiety. Do you know what is our expenditure? In New York we are spending twelve lakhs of rupees per month. Only in New York. Similarly, in Los Angeles we have got huge expenditure. And our income is also, daily, five lakhs. You can see. Take our account. Audit. People do not touch as soon as one hears, "Oh, it is a religious group." And we are selling religious books, this Bhagavata and Srimad Bhagavad-gita, six lakhs of rupees daily. Can you imagine?

Guest (6) (Indian man): Where is this consciousness of surrender come in human life? At what stage it can come?

Prabhupada: At any moment. You must be prepared. Krsna said, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you have got intelligence, you can do it immediately. Where is the difficulty? But you'll not do it. They have done it, these young boys. They have no other business. And Krsna assures, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah: Don't hesitate. But we are hesitating. So there is no surrender. So all right, you remain under the clutches of maya and suffer. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. Maya is very strong. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti As soon as you surrender to Krsna immediately you are mukta. Immediately, instantly. It is in your hand. You follow Krsna's instruction, do the needful, you are mukta. Chant Hare Krsna

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada! (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Evening Lecture -- Bhuvanesvara, January 23, 1977