"Don't Call It Religion"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.14
June 18, 1969, New Vrndavana

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Prabhupada:

tato 'nyatha kincana yad vivaksatah
prthag drsas tat-krta-rupa-namabhih
na karhicit kvapi ca duhsthita matir
labheta vatahata-naur ivaspadam

Now we are discussing instruction of Narada to his disciple, Vyasadeva. Such a learned scholar, Vyasadeva. He's known as Vedavyasa, the authority on all Vedic literature. And he's supposed to be incarnation of Narayana, exalted position. Still, he requires the instruction of a spiritual master. That is the way of Vedic way. Avaroha-pantha, aroha-pantha. Aroha-pantha means inductive process. To know from here, from the lower status to the higher status, speculative method, or ascending process. And avaroha-pantha is deductive process, getting knowledge from higher authorities. So our Vedic understanding is to receive knowledge from the authorities. That is perfect knowledge.

So there are three kinds of processes to receive knowledge: pratyaksa, aitihya and sabda. Pratyaksa means by direct perception, experimental knowledge. And aitihya, or anumana. Anumana, hypothesis, "It may be like this," "Perhaps like this." Just like modern scientists say, "Perhaps it is like this." That is called anumana, hypothesis. And another process is sabda-pramana. Sruti-pramana. Sabda means sound vibration, and sruti means aural reception. So out of three processes, the sabda-pramana, or receiving vibration, sound vibration from authorities by aural reception, that is considered to be the perfect.

So Narada Muni says... Before this, Narada Muni has advised Vyasadeva that "In order to release all these conditioned souls, you just describe the wonderful activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Simply by hearing... Uttama-slokasya gunanuvadat. Uttama-sloka. Uttama-sloka means the Supreme Lord who is described by transcendental literature or very fine, scholarly language. He's called Uttama-sloka. Uttama-slokasya urukramasya. "That will save all conditioned souls from being implicated in the clutches of maya." Now, Vyasadeva has already described... He has made many puranas, eighteen puranas. So there is mention of God's activities. Just like in Mahabharata he has put this Bhagavad-gita. So Narada Muni says that prthag drsas tat-krta-rupa-namabhih, tato 'nyatha kincana yad vivaksatah: "If you do not exceptionally, exclusively describe simply the pastimes of the uncommon activities of the Lord, the other way, as you have given as a sidelight, as you have described Bhagavad-gita, the activities of Krsna as a sideline, not..." Actually, the whole Mahabharata is full of activities of Krsna, but Krsna is only a scene in the Mahabharata. He's speaking in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra. So Narada Muni says, "That sort of description will not be very much congenial, because the people are not steady. Their anxiety... Their mind is disturbed in so many ways exactly like a boat moving in the tossing of the waves of the sea. So this sort of understanding of God will not give them much benefit. You describe completely on the pastimes, on the activities of the Supreme Lord. That will give people release from these material clutches."

So the next verse says... Vyasadeva may say that "Sir, I have already compiled so many books, eighteen puranas, Mahabharata, even Vedanta-sutra. So are they not sufficient literature to revive Krsna consciousness?" So in reply to that, Narada says,

jugupsitam dharma-krte 'nusasatah
sva-bhava-raktasya mahan vyatikramah

Sva-bhava-raktasya mahan vyatikramah. Sva-bhava-raktasya means by nature. Just like Vedic scripture says, "By nature every living entity has a propensity for sex life, for intoxication." Loke vyavayamisa-madya-seva nitya hi jantoh. Jantoh means living entities. Nitya. So long he is in contact with this material world, he has got a natural propensity for sex life and intoxication. Vyavaya means sex life, and amisa means meat-eating. Amisa, meat-eating. Sex life, meat-eating, and madya-seva. Madya-seva means intoxication, drinking liquor. It is not unnatural. To drink wine or liquor or to eat meat and to have free sex life, that is the desire of all conditioned souls. Therefore, sva-bhava-raktasya, "by nature." Nobody is taught in the educational institution how to drink, or how to eat meat or how to enjoy sex life. Natural. That is natural. Sva-bhava-raktasya. "And if these things you describe as dharma, as religious principles, then they are doomed."

Just like a man is addicted to commit theft. He has got a habit of stealing. And if I say, "Stealing is very nice art. You can go on with you, with it," then where is the reformation? There is no question of... He, he's already addicted. So it is encouragement. So similarly, in the dharma-sastra... Just like in Mahabharata there is... (aside:) Where is that "cut cut" noise? Don't make that sound. Just like in marriage ceremony. Marriage ceremony... Of course, in your country, the marriage ceremony is different. In India still, the people spend as much as possible in the marriage ceremony, millions of dollars. If one man is rich, he'll spend for his son's marriage or daughter's marriage. That is a great credit. "Oh, this man is very rich man. He's spending so much money." So there are so many religious performances, ritualistic performances. You have to spend money. So you must find out so many performances. So they have all these in the sastras.

So Narada Muni says that "What is this, marriage ceremony? The marriage ceremony is to allow the boy and the girl for legitimate sex life. That's all. So that propensity he has already got. And what is the use of making such propaganda and spending so much money?" Very practical proposition. But in the sastras there are. Similarly, drinking or meat-eating. According to Vedic sastra, meat-eating is not allowed by purchasing from the slaughterhouse. No. They... There is motive. The marriage ceremony or the meat-eating, the so much ritualistic performances, there is motive. What is that motive? Motive is restriction. Just like the same example, marriage: the real idea is to restrict the boy and the girl to one woman and one man. That is the idea, main idea. If he's not married, then he will be just like cats and dogs. So idea is very good. But Narada Muni says, "After all, you're coming to the point of sex life. So why so much propaganda?" Similarly, for meat-eating, there is also sanction in the sastras, tamasika-sastra, not sattvika. There are three divisions of sastra -- sattvika, rajasika and tamasika. Those who are meat-eaters, cannot give up meat-eating, for them, the prescription is, "All right, you can eat meat, but you have to sacrifice one goat, but not cow." The... For sacrifice the animal is recommended: goat. So you can, I mean to say, cut throat of a goat in the presence of goddess Kali and you can eat. There are so many prescriptions. But that is also restriction, that Kali-worship is one day in a month, on the dark moon day. What is called, dark moon? Amavasya. Full moon and...? Eh? No, no, no. When there is... On that particular..., there is no moon in the sky.

Hayagriva(?): The dark of the moon.

Prabhupada: It is called dark moon, yes. So that Kali-puja is recommended on the dark moon day. The... That is one day in a month. Similarly, according to marriage life, the sex life is also allowed one day in a month. The whole thing is restriction. Similarly, drinking wine also, there is Devi-puja. That is also once in a year or something like that. The whole point is restriction. But after all, this is drinking and mating and meat-eating.

So Narada Muni says that "You have described these things for which a man has got natural propensity in a religious form. So it is jugupsitam. This is most abominable." Just see. Even the restricted system of marriage, drinking and meat-eating, described in the sastra, that is also condemned by Narada. Jugupsitam. Jugupsitam dharma-krte 'nusasatah: "You are the leader of the sastras. You are writing sastras. People will follow you." Just like in Vedic, Vedas, there is recommendation of sacri..., in the sacrifice, animal-killing, but that animal-killing is not killing. This... There was a discussion between Lord Caitanya and Chand Kazi, the Muhammadan magistrate. That story perhaps you know, that He started civil disobedience movement. And the brahmanas of Navadvipa, they complained to the Muhammadan ma... At that time, Bengal was being governed by Pathans, Muhammadans, and so there was Muhammadan magistrate called Kazi Saheb. So the brahmanas, they lodged complaint to the Kazi Saheb that "This boy, Nimai Pandita, He has started one movement, Hare Krsna, and people are being enthused, excited to chant this Hare Krsna mantra, and He is making propaganda that "Simply by chanting Hare Krsna, you'll get all perfection." So the brahmanas thought that "If this boy makes propaganda and popularize this Hare Krsna movement, then, oh, what about ourself?" They were priestly class. "Then how we will live?" So they lodged complaint to the Chand Kazi that "He's doing something against our Vedic rituals. It is not Hindu religion. And..." Of course, he was Muhammadan magistrate, but after all, he was meant for giving justice to the people. So when big brahmanas complained, he took action and he sent some constables to warn the followers of Lord Caitanya that "You are disturbing. You are disturbing, this Hare Krsna chanting. You cannot do this. There is complaint."

So Caitanya Mahaprabhu was informed that "The Chand Kazi has warned us not to chant Hare Krsna. What shall we do?" Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "Don't care. Go on chanting. Go on chanting." So then, when the magistrate saw that they have not stopped, then he sent some constables and government police force, who broke their mrdangas and dispersed the crowd. So this information was given to Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and He said, "All right, then we shall, I mean to say, issue this civil disobedience." So He called for many thousands of people. He was very popular. This incidence shows that even He was at that time sixteen-years-old boy, He was so learned, Nimai Pandita, that He defeated a great scholar, and at the same time, He was very popular because by His simple calling, many hundred thousands of people gathered with mrdangas, and they began kirtana in the street and went to the house of that Kazi.

So at that time Kazi thought that "This is a mass movement. So my order will not be... There will be some disturbance." So he came to his senses. Then he wanted to make some compromise with Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And first of all there was some discussion, because he was also very learned scholar, Chand Kazi, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu was also very learned scholar. So first of all he compromised, Chand Kazi, "Nimai, You are a boy, and in our village relationship You are just my nephew because Your grandfather, Your mother's father, I call him ‘Caca.' " Caca means uncle. "So, in that sense, Your mother is my sister. So You are my nephew. Why You are so angry upon Your uncle?" So He said, "Yes, My dear uncle, I have come My uncle's house to be received very nicely, but you went upstairs. Why? I am very glad that you have come down." In this way, the things were... Then He first of all asked Chand Kazi, "Yes, My dear uncle..." He was maternal uncle, mamu... Mamu or mama. Mama means maternal uncle. "My dear mama, Uncle, what is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" That was His challenge, first. "What sort of religion you have got?" He said, "What You say? We eat our father...?" "Yes, because you eat cow. So cow gives you milk. She's your mother. You drink milk and kill your mother. And the bull, she (he) helps you in agricultural..., producing grains just like father gives you grains to eat. So you are killing your father and mother. How is that?"

So Chand Kazi was also very learned scholar. He said, "Well, this cow-killing is also recommended in Your Vedas, because there is cow sacrifice." So Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied... Now, we should know it that the animal sacrifice, according to the Vedic scripture, that is not killing. That is explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He said that "In the previous time, this cow sacrifice was actually being done. That's all right. But that was not for killing. That -- to give the cow, the old cow or bull, a new life. By the power of mantra, just to give evidence of the Vedic mantras, the brahmanas would sacrifice a cow, old cow or old bull, in the fire and give, give him, again, new life. That was... No, in this age, there is no such powerful brahmana who can chant the mantras rightly and give again rejuvenation, another new life. It is not possible. Therefore in the sastras, these sort of sacrifices are forbidden."

asvamedham gavalambham
sannyasam pala-paitrkam
devarena sutotpattim
kalau panca vivarjayet
[Cc. Adi 17.164]

So there was nice discussion, and the compromise was that "No more Your sankirtana movement will be checked by my men."

So the point is that although in the Vedic scripture there is recommendation that animal sacrifice allowed, but that is not meant for killing. That is giving a new life. So when this animal sacrifice was going on simply for eating, simply for eating... Just like in a particular mission they say that "We are devotees of goddess Kali." Their real mission is to eat meat. Therefore they have become devotees of goddess Kali. But actually, these sacrifices were not meant, as explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, for killing the animals. That was to test the power, the strength, of the Vedic mantras. So Lord Buddha's movement was therefore started... When people began to eat meat like anything on the plea of Vedic sacrifice, so Lord Buddha, at that time -- Lord Buddha means he's also incarnation of Krsna -- he appeared to stop this animal killing. That is the prayer of Lord Buddha we sing:

nindasi yajna-vidher ahaha sruti-jatam
sadaya-hrdaya darsita-pasu-ghatam
kesava dhrta-buddha-sarira jaya jagadisa hare

The buddha-sarira... We offer prayer to Nrsimhadeva,

tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-srngam
dalita-hiranyakasipu-tanu-bhrngam
kesava dhrta-narahari-rupa jaya jagadisa hare

Similarly, there is prayer for Lord Buddha also. The, that prayer is: nindasi yajna-vidher ahaha sruti-jatam, "Although in the Vedic literature there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, you are forbidding, ‘No, this should not be done.' " Therefore Buddhism is not Vedic religion, because he was against this Vedic sacrifice. Sadaya-hrdaya darsi... His main business was to stop this animal killing, but people wanted to give evidence from the Vedas. Therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." Veda na maniya bauddha haila nastika. Therefore Sankaracarya came, and he drove away the Buddhists from the land of India. That's a long history.

So this sacrifice, this animal killing, that is also forbidding, that... Narada Muni said that "Why you have bothered your head in that, that way, that you have made this, this is a type of religion?" Jugupsitam: "This is abominable." Jugupsitam dharma-krte 'nusasatah: "You are authority, and if you recommend animal sacrifice, they will take it. They have got already natural tendency, and they will accept it, ‘This is the religious process.' And when they will be forbidden by other, saner persons, they'll not care for it. So it is jugupsitam. It is abominable." Jugupsitam dharma-krte 'nusasatah sva-bhava-raktasya mahan vyatikramah: "It's a great mistake you have done." Yad-vakyato dharma ititarah sthitah: "They'll accept you authority, and they'll be steady in that assertion, in that conviction." And na manyate tasya nivaranam: "And if you say..." Just like in other religious principles, if we say that "Don't eat meat..." I had some conversation with some Christian priests. They put forward this argument, "Why should we not eat? Our Christ took flesh. And why should we not? We must do it." They say like that. But Christ said that "You should... You shall not kill." So they cannot give any proper explanation why they kill. So in every religion... In Muhammadan religion, there...

So if, if this killing process or this drinking process, or this, which a man has got natural, that is excited under the name of religion, then Narada says, "Then when actually they will be forbidden for higher elevation of life, they'll not accept it. Therefore your description in the sastras of all these nonsense, jugupsitam, is abominable." Jugupsitam dharma-krte 'nusasatah sva-bhava-rakta... "The natural tendency, this. You should not incite them more and more." Here it is said that patrka viruddham eva. It is against... Jatam ita jugupsitam. Jugupsitam nindam kama karmadi(?). Jugupsitam. Sridhara Svami gives note, nindam: abominable; kama karma... Kama karma means that fruitive result. You do, act something, and you want to enjoy the fruit. That is called kama karma. Karma, akarma, vikarma. There are three kinds of activities. First karma is prescribed duties. And akarma means to do act, but the result is not enjoyable by you. And there is vikarma. Vikarma means doing against. So this kama karma. People are engaged in ritualistic ceremony for receiving some result for sense gratification. That is nindam. That is abominable. Nindam.

Sva-bhavata eva raktasya ragina purusasya dharma-krte, dharmartham anusasas tatah mahan vyatikramah(?): "So this is not good for you. It is most abominable." Kutah iti utah yasyeti vakyatah ayam mukhya dharma: "Because they will accept you as authority, and they will think this is religion." They will not make further progress. They will stick to that principle. So therefore it is abominable. Yatasya kama karmadi anyayena tattva-jnanena kriyamanaya(?). Tattva-jnanena. When they'll be advised higher truth... Just like those who are addicted to killing process under the shadow of religious rights, if they are said that "You don't kill. This is not good. After all, this living entity is as good as you are. As you are also part and parcel of Krsna, or God, similarly, this cow, or this animal, is also part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but he has got a different dress only. That does not mean that you should kill..." If these things are instructed for higher elevation of life, they will not accept. They will not accept. They will say, "Oh, my religion says this. So I must do it."

Tasya nivaranam janah. Raktasya karma nivaram nivaranam samatam etad na manyate kintu pravrtti margam anuviyukta vesan tada vidhi kalpa vidhi(?): "Because he has got already natural tendency. And if he is, there is sanction by religiosity, ritualistic, religious process, then he will stick to it. So you have not done very nice work." That is... Na manyate tasya nivaranam janah. Vicaksano 'syarhati veditum vibhor ananta-parasya nivrttitah sukham: "Because actually, if anyone wants real happiness, that happiness is not by gratifying your senses." In the Bhagavad-gita also it is said that sukham atyantikam yat tad atindriya-grahyam. Real happiness, that is not perceived by this gratification of these material senses. So nivrttitah. One has to cease from this material sense gratification, and then he can enjoy the real happiness, which is transcendental to sense enjoyment. That is... That is the instruction.

In the, in the Padma Purana also there is a verse, ramante yogino 'nante: "Those who are yogis..." Yogi means transcendentalist, not the so-called yogi. Those who have contacted the Absolute Truth, they are called yogis. So yoginah, actually a yogi, ramante, they enjoy. They also enjoy. Why they are, I mean to say, undergoing so much austerities and penances and regulative principles? Because they are trying for being elevated to the real platform of happiness. So ramante yogino 'nante. Everyone is hankering after happiness, either materialistic or spiritualistic, but the difference is that materialistic, materialistic persons, they are satisfied with temporary happiness, and those who are transcendentalists, they are also seeking happiness. That is real happiness, spiritual happiness, eternal happiness. So therefore it is stated in the Padma Purana that ramante yogino 'nante. Anante means unlimited happiness. They enjoy unlimited happiness. Ramante yogino 'nante. And satyanande. And that is real happiness. Happiness does not mean it is for few minutes. No. Happiness should continue, eternally. One should be situated in that happiness so that other, temporary happiness will not attract him.

So ramante yogino 'nante satyanande cid-atmani. Cit, cit means that he's full of knowledge. That is not in ignorance. This material happiness is in ignorance. And spiritual happiness is suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means pure goodness. In the material world there are three stages: ignorance, passion and goodness. The goodness platform is very nice in the material world, but there is another platform, which is called suddha-sattva. Sattvam visuddham, visuddham vasudeva-sabditam. That is transcendental platform, and in that platform you can understand God. God is Vasudeva, and in the vasudeva platform... So ramante yogino 'nante satyanande cid-atmani. That is cid-atmani. Cit means knowledge; atmani means self. In that platform. Iti rama-padenasau param brahmabhidhiyate. This is the description, this is the meaning of the word rama. Rama, this word, comes from ramante, ram. Ram-dhatu. Ram means enjoyment. And rama means the full of pleasure. If you contact with Rama, or Krsna, the absolute attractive, then you are placed in the absolute platform for eternal enjoyment.

Enjoyment is the goal of everyone's life. But the difference is that the materialist is trying to hanker after flickering enjoyment, and the transcendentalists, they are hankering after the spiritual enjoyment, or eternal enjoyment. Enjoyment... Anandamayo 'bhyasat. Because enjoyment is our life. We cannot be void. That is not possible. Therefore the impersonalists, about impersonalists, this Bhagavata version is that although they rise up almost to the spiritual platform, but because they cannot enjoy... Impersonalists means there is no enjoyment. There is simply light, a life of knowledge. But simply knowledge will not make me happy. I must enjoyment. I must have enjoyment. Anandamayo 'bhyasat, because my nature is to enjoy. That enjoyment cannot be done in the impersonal or void philosophy. That is not possible. Therefore Bhagavata says, ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah: "If somebody thinks that he has become liberated after undergoing the process of impersonal philosophy and austerities and penances..." The impersonalists, they also practice severe penances to attain to that Brahman stage. That is also nice thing. But they cannot stay there, because there is no enjoyment.

Therefore, as I was saying the other day, that many sannyasis, they say that "This world is false; Brahman is truth." So in spite of their rising to that platform of Brahman understanding, they again come down. That is described in the Bhagavatam, aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah: [SB 10.2.32] "After undergoing severe penances and austerities, they may rise to the Brahman platform but again falls down." Why falls down? Anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah: "Because they do not enjoy Your association." They have neglected the association of Krsna and company. Therefore they have no, I mean to say, shelter. The same example can be explained: just like if you go on a plane or sputnik very high, very high, it is void, all side void. If you go very high, 25,000 miles, you'll see void. But that, there you cannot stay. You can travel for many years in that void, but if you don't take shelter in a planet, then you'll come back again to this planet. Similarly, the impersonalists, they cannot stay in their impersonal understanding. Simply they suffer some trouble. Klesa... Bhagavad-gita says, kleso 'dhikataras tesam avyaktasakta-cetasam [Bg. 12.5]. Those who are attached, those who are attached to that impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth, they undergo greater trouble. We transcendentalists, we personalists, we also, from the materialistic point, we are... Our standard of living is not very opulent. We lie down anywhere. We are... Our dresses are not so clean. Our rooms are not clean. From the materialistic point of view, somebody comes. He says, "Oh. How wretched these people are living!" That is also another kind of austerity. They have adopted. But that is pleasing. Even they are in so-called wretched condition, they are happy. They are happy. So they're in both ways. But those who are simply attached to the impersonal feature, their trouble is more painful. That is described in the Bhagavad-gita.

So vicaksano 'syarhati veditum vibhoh. So one has to cease. One has to make a stop of this material enjoyment. Then one can approach to the spiritual enjoyment. You cannot enjoy spiritual life if you stick to the materialistic way of... Therefore we have got so..., a little restriction, that "You cannot do this." Although those who are addicted to this life, this restriction is sometimes painful, but it is required. Unless... Just like to cure your disease, you have to follow some regulative principle prescribed by the physician, similarly, in order to cure yourself from this material disease, you have to accept. Nivrttitah. Nivrttitah means ceasing this process of material life. Nivrttitah sukham, pravartamanasya gunair anatmanas tato bhavan darsaya cestitam vibhoh.

So how it can be achieved, nivrtti, ceasing this materialistic way of life? So Narada Muni says that "You simply describe the activities of the Lord, Krsna, and by hearing simply the activities of Krsna, one will be very easily able to cease from this materialistic way of life." Caitanya Mahaprabhu also recommended that people should be given chance to hear Srimad-Bhagavatam or krsna-katha. Krsna-katha means speaking or, I mean to say, narration about Krsna. So Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also recommended that "Let them be situated in their own position. There is no necessity of changing his position. Give him chance. Give him chance to hear. Then gradually..." Param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam.

So our attempt is... We are opening so many branches. The idea is that people should get chance of hearing about the Supreme Lord, either by chanting this maha-mantra or... This is also chanting. What I am speaking before you from Srimad-Bhagavatam or Bhagavad-gita, that is also chanting. This is also kirtana. Kirtana means describing. So you can describe the glories of the Lord either by musical instruments or by chant, singing, or you can describe the glories of the Lord by reading from authoritative scripture. Both of them are called kirtana. This, this Bhagavata reading is also described as kirtana by Sukadeva Gosvami. Abhavad vaiyasakih kirtane. Kirtane. It is called kirtana. Sravanam kirtanam. The process is sravana and kirtana, hearing and chanting. So Pariksit Maharaja, he attained salvation and perfection simply by hearing. And Sukadeva Gosvami attained salvation and perfection simply by chanting. This chanting means describing the glories of the Lord from Srimad-Bhagavatam.

So he says, pravartamanasya gunair anatmanas tato bhavan darsaya cestitam: "People are so much entangled by the modes of material nature. So in order to get them free from this entanglement, you show the path. Simply let them hear. Let them give aural reception to the wonderful activities of the Lord. That activity..." Because absolute... Krsna is Absolute Truth. So Krsna and Krsna's activities are the same because it is absolute. It is not duality. In the material world, myself and my activities are different. But it is the... This world is dual world. But in the absolute world, Krsna and Krsna's pastimes, Krsna and Krsna's name, Krsna and Krsna's quality, Krsna and Krsna's fame, they're all Krsna. Krsna and Krsna's associates, they're all Krsna. Krsna is cowherd boy. So Krsna and the cows, they're all Krsna. That we have to learn. They're not different from Krsna. Krsna and the gopis, they're all Krsna. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhih. So we have to understand that.

So any way, if we try to associate, simply by chanting or hearing, that means we are associating with Krsna. And the more we associate with Krsna, the more we become purified. Just like more you remain with the fire, you become warmer, warmer, warmer. And one day you become so warm you exactly like fire. The example I have given that if you put an iron rod in the fire, it becomes warm, warmer, warmest, and then it becomes red. And when it is red, it is no longer iron. It is fire. Similarly, simply by chanting and hearing you spiritualize yourself. So a day will come when this material body also will be fully spiritualized. The... That fully spiritualized means there will be no more material activities; simply these spiritual activities will be there.

So Narada Muni is instructing Vyasadeva, and we shall discuss next meeting. Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.14 -- New Vrindaban, June 18, 1969