"Our Eternal Position"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.1
November 14, 1972, Vrndavana



Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)

suta uvaca
jagrhe paurusam rupam
bhagavan mahad-adibhih
sambhutam sodasa-kalam
adau loka-sisrksaya

Translation: "Suta said: In the beginning of the creation, the Lord first expanded Himself in the universal form of the purusa incarnation and manifested all the ingredients for the material creation. And thus at first there was the creation of the sixteen principles of material action. This was for the purpose of creating the material universe."

Prabhupada:

jagrhe paurusam rupam
bhagavan mahad-adibhih
sambhutam sodasa-kalam
adau loka-sisrksaya

So adau, in the beginning, loka-sisrksaya, for creating the cosmology, jagrhe paurusam rupam, person, the creation is coming from the person. Not from imperson. The modern scientists, their theory of creation... "There was something matter chunk," or something like that. What do they say? What was the beginning of creation, Hayagriva Prabhu?

Hayagriva: Uh, one is that there was a mass that exploded, and all of these universes came out in the explosion. The other is that the universe is a solid state universe, that it is constantly existing and regenerating itself. These two theories. One's called the "Big Bang Theory," and the other's called "Solid State Theory," "Steady State, Steady State."

Prabhupada: Anyway...

Hayagriva: In either case, there was something there.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hayagriva: In either case, there was something originally there, which they don't explain.

Prabhupada: But here we find it quite reasonable. Because everything is, is from the person. Jagrhe paurusam rupam. Rupam, form. It is not from imperson. Jagrhe paurusam rupam. So we don't theorize. We accept the statement of the Vedas. That is our process of knowledge. Eh? Descending process. We take knowledge from the authority. Of course, the scientists also say they take from authority, but originally, as explained by our Hayagriva Prabhu, it does not appear that the knowledge was taken from authority. It is theory. Theory, one can put theory of his own, and there are so many theories. But we don't accept theories. We want solid fact.

The solid fact is the Lord created. In the Bible also it is said that God said, "Let there be creation." So it is from the person. Here also, we find the creation begins from the person. In the Vedas it is said, sa aiksata. Sa asrjata. Aiksata, "By the glance, He looked over, God looked over, and He created." The reference is to the person. We also find from our experience that whenever there is something manufacturing, or creation, we do not find automatically some matter comes into being. We don't, we haven't such experience. Whenever there is anything manufactured or created, there is a person behind it.

So this is not a very good theory that from the chunk, or some matter exploded, and immediately the universe came into existence. That is not a very good theory. But this is nice. Jagrhe paurusam rupam. This paurusam, the Maha-Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Visnu, and Ksirodakasayi Visnu, They are expansions of Krsna. Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam [Bs 5.33]. He incarnates, He expands Himself in various incarnations. Now, for the creation, these three persons... Always person. Garbhodakasayi Visnu, person; Ksirodakasayi Visnu, person; and Karanarnava-jala, Karanarnavasayi Visnu, person. And Karanarnavasayi Visnu, Maha-Visnu, He's also expansion of Sankarsana. And Sankarsana is expansion of Baladeva; Baladeva is expansion of Krsna. Therefore Krsna becomes the origin. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah, anadih [Bs. 5.1]. He has no beginning, but He is beginning. Anadir adih. He's, He has no beginning, but He is the beginning of creation. Anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1].

So mahat-tattva, the total material energy, and six, five elements, sixteen, sixteen, sodasa-kalam. What are those? The five elements, namely, earth, water, fire, air, and sense objects and senses and the spirit soul. In this way, sixteen. And from sixteen, it expands to twenty-four. That is the explanation of our Vedic creation. Sodasa-kalam. You read the purport.

Pradyumna: Purport: "The Bhagavad-gita states that the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna maintains these material universes by extending His plenary expansions. So this purusa form is the confirmation of the same principle. The original Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva, or Lord Krsna, who is famous as the son of King Vasudeva or King Nanda, is full with all opulences, all potencies, all fames, all beauties, all knowledge and all renunciation. Part of His opulences is manifested as impersonal Brahman, and part of His opulences is manifested as Paramatma. This purusa feature of the same Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna is the original Paramatma manifestation of the Lord. There are three purusa features in the material creation, and this form, who is known as the Karanodakasayi Visnu, is the first of the three. The others are known as Garbhodakasayi Visnu and the Ksirodakasayi Visnu, which we shall know one after another. The innumerable universes are generated from the skinholes of this Karanodakasayi Visnu, and in each one of the universes, the Lord..."

Prabhupada: This is explained in Brahma-samhita.

yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya
jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah
visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-viseso
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.48]

Maha-Visnu. From the skinholes of Maha-Visnu, the small particles of universes are coming into being. Everything, the nature's way, it comes a very small particle, then it grows. Anything you take. Just like our body. The small particle, the soul which is measured as one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, when it is placed in the womb of the woman by the man, then the body grows. That is the seed. Aham bija-pradah pita. Krsna says that "I am the seed-giving father."

So just like here, we practically see, the male semina is injected within the womb of the female, and because the living entity, very small, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of, is there, because that living entity's there, the body grows. Unless the living entity's there, there will be no pregnancy. As soon as the living entity is there, the body grows. And that is known as pregnancy. Daily grows. The mother can understand it is growing. Similarly, without the spirit soul entering into the matter, there is no possibility of creation. In the Bhagavad-gita also it is said, vistabhya aham ekamsena.

athava bahunaitena
kim jnatena tavarjuna
vistabhyaham idam krtsnam
ekamsena sthito jagat

"Because I have entered into this universe by My plenary portion, therefore it is existing." It is explained in the Bhagavad-gita.

So without spiritual touch, there is no question of matter working or expanding or growing. That is not possible. So in the seed of any tree, because there is that living entity, therefore it grows into a big tree. Every tree, they are also living entities, in a different form. So here also, in the creation, without the supreme living entity entering within the mahat-tattva, there is no possibility of creation. Go on.

Pradyumna: "And in each one of the universes the Lord enters as Garbhodakasayi Visnu. In the Bhagavad-gita it is also mentioned that the material world is created at certain intervals and then again destroyed. This creation and destruction is done by the supreme will because of the conditioned souls, or the nitya-baddha living entities. Nitya-baddha, or the eternally conditioned souls, have the sense of individuality or..."

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Hmm? Yes.

Pradyumna: "...or ahankara, which dictates them sense enjoyment, which they are unable to have constitutionally. The Lord is the only enjoyer, and all others are enjoyed. The living entities are predominated enjoyers, but the eternally conditioned souls, forgetful of this constitutional position, have strong aspirations to enjoy. This chance to enjoy matter is given to the conditioned souls in the material world, and side by side they are given the chance to understand their real constitutional position. Those fortunate living entities who catch the truth and surrender unto the lotus feet of Vasudeva after many, many births in the material world join the eternally liberated souls and thus are allowed to enter into the kingdom of Godhead. After this, such fortunate living entities need not come again within the occasional material creation. But those who cannot catch the constitutional truth are again merged into the mahat-tattva..."

Prabhupada: So we can very easily understand by the example of our own body. This body, as we, spirit soul, enter into this body, the existence of body continues. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. So the body is not created first. The... Because the living entity enters into the body, therefore the body's created. Similarly, this gigantic body, universal body, cannot come into existence automatically. That is not a very good theory. How...? There is no such example. Unless the living entity is there, this body... We get this experience -- it does not grow. If a child is born dead, that body does not grow. Therefore it is to be concluded there is something. Even if we do not accept the spirit soul, there must be something on account of the presence of that something, the body's growing. Similarly, take this gigantic body of the universe; unless there is something like that, as we are in this body, how this gigantic universe can go? This is common reasoning. We do not find that a..., matter is growing automatically. No. A tree, a tree is growing, daily growing new leaves new twigs, new flowers. Because that living entity is within the tree. You cut the tree and throw it aside. There will be no more growing. It will dry. It will dry.

Therefore the conclusion is..., as it is said here, that jagrhe paurusam rupam. So it is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He, after entering into the matter, there is possibility of creation. Otherwise, there is no possibility of creation. Now... Go on reading.

Pradyumna: "When the creation is again set up, this mahat-tattva is again let loose."

Prabhupada: Now another point is that this creation is, because it is material creation, it does not exist forever. It is..., come into existence, and again it will be finished, annihilated. Exactly like our body. As this body, we have got this body on certain date, and it has got to be annihilated at a certain date, similarly, this gigantic cosmology, material manifestation, it has a date of creation, and it, it stays for some time... Everything material, there are six changes. First of all, birth; then staying for some time; then growing; then producing some by-products; and then dwindling; and then finish. Exactly like our body. Just like this body is born at a certain date, then it grows, it stays, it produces some by-product. From this body, many children come out -- by-product. Then it becomes old, declining. And then one day, finished. This is called sad-vikara, six changes. Six changes.

So similarly, there are six changes of this material world also, because it is also material product. So as I and you enter in our body, similarly vistabhya aham, Krsna says He enters within this material world. Therefore the creation takes place, it grows, it gives off so many by-products, and then again there will be destruction. It is said at the time of destruction, first of all there will be no rain, no rain for hundreds of years. So everything will dry up and die, practically by continuous sunshine. And it is said the sunshine will be very, very powerful. Twelve times powerful. So everything will be ablaze, blazing into fire. Then there will be rain. As we have experience, after excessive heat, there is cloud and rain, so there will be rain, and everything will be absorbed into water, and the water will be evaporated. In this way, this material world, cosmic manifestation will be no more. Again there will be creation, mahat-tattva. Bhutva bhutva praliyate. That is stated in the... This material world comes into existence and stays for some time, again becomes annihilated.

But there is another world. That is called spiritual world. Paras tasmat tu bhavah anyah. That is sanatana. That is eternal. And God, or Krsna is eternal. We are also eternal. That is stated in many places. Jivah sanatanah, jiva-loke sanatanah. And Krsna is also described as sanatana in the Eleventh Chapter. And there is another world which is also sanatana: paras tasmat tu bhavah anyah avyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah [Bg. 8.20]. So Krsna is sanatana, that world is sanatana, we are sanatana. Therefore we should meet together. And the process which helps us to go back to home, back to Godhead, and stay in that sanatana place with the sanatana Lord, that is called sanatana-dharma. Sanatana-dharma does not mean that a particular class of men having a particular type of dress or hair. No. Sanatana-dharma is meant for all living entities. They are rotting in this material world, repetition of birth and death. That is asanatana.

So every human being should be educated to accept this sanatana-dharma, how one can go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Krsna consciousness movement. So sanatana-dharma is not meant for a particular class of men. It is meant for all living entities. Unfortunately, the Hindu dharma, or sanatana-dharma, they have identified. And..., as if others have no right to enter into the sanatana-dharma. No. That's not a fact. The fact is every living entity is sanatana. And the process by which a living entity is transferred to the sanatana dhama, sanatana place, that is called sanatana-dharma. It is... Sanatana-dharma is misunderstood. Just like in India there are classes of men who call: "We are sanatanists." Everyone should be sanatanist. Sanatana-dharma is not meant for a particular class of men or country or society. Sanatana-dharma means it is meant for the living entities.

The real occupational duty of the living entity is called sanatana-dharma. Dharma means not religion. Dharma means the natural characteristic. That is dharma. We don't mean dharma is a certain type of faith. No. Faith or no faith, the characteristics must be there. Just like salt. It has got a particular type of taste. So you like it or not like it, the taste is there. It is... That is... If you think that "I have faith that salt should be sweet," no. That cannot be. You may have faith. You may create that faith that salt has the sweet taste. But that's not a fact. Similarly, if you say, "I have got my faith that sugar will be pungent." No. That cannot be. Sugar has got a particular type of taste. That will continue. You may believe it or not believe it. It does not depend. And faith means you believe, you can change it. Therefore dharma, the exact word, dharma, is different from the dictionary meaning, English dictionary, "a kind of faith. Religion means a kind of faith." We don't mean that.

Therefore Krsna says that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That means the so-called faith, you should give up. It is a faith. "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." Or "I am this," "I am that." This is a kind of faith. You are neither Hindu, neither Muslim nor Christian; you are servant of Krsna. That is real characteristic. And actually we are servant. We are serving. That is our characteristic. Either he may be Hindu or Muslim or Christian, but the real business is that everyone is serving. It is not that because I am Hindu, I don't serve. Or because one is Christian, he doesn't serve. No. Everyone is serving. But he's serving maya. He's serving kama, krodha, lobha, matsarya. He's serving. In this material condition, we are serving our whims, kama. Sometimes I become angry and I serve my anger -- I beat others. That means I am serving anger. I am serving my lust. I am serving my greediness.

So we have become, instead of becoming servant of Krsna, we have become the servants of our, these enemies. Practically they are enemies -- kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah. Or in other words, we are servants of the three material modes of nature. But we are servant. That we cannot deny. So the whole Krsna consciousness movement is that instead of becoming servant of these three modes of nature, you become servant of Krsna. That is your original position. You cannot give up your position as servant. In the Bengali proverb there is a dhenki. Svarga gela dan bange.(?) Means a dhenki, that machine, that wooden machine, which... Husking machine? So if you send it to the heaven, then what he'll do? The same business. It does not mean the dhenki, while it is promoted in the heaven, he can become soul or anything else. No. Similarly, we living entities, we have desire to enjoy this material world, but our position is servant. We have not changed our position. We revolted to serve Krsna. That is all right. But what is your position here in the material world? That is also servant. Just like I told Professor Kotovsky that "Your Communism, what is the difference between your Communism and our Krsna consciousness movement? You have selected Lenin as your leader, or master, and we have selected Krsna as our leader, master. So on the principle, where is difference?" The professor could not answer.

So the professor could not answer, but he was impressed, that actually what is this meaning of Communism? You simply change of, change of master. That's all. And this is going on. All political leaders, they are going from one political leader to another. And he's exploiting. That's all. He, he is giving some manifesto that "If you give me vote, then I shall make you overnight a king." All false propaganda. And these rascals gives him vote and he again remains the same servant. That's all. There is a Bengali song:

tabe kali tomara bada saba bala ke kare apanara karma phala yadi phalebi amara(?). So if I remain the same servant, then why shall I vote to you? You cannot make me master. But my desire is that I shall become master. That is called illusion. Because I'm not master. I cannot become master. I have to remain servant. I am flattering some men: "Please make me master. Please make me master." That is my position. This political party, that political party.

Therefore the sane man, one who has got good brain, su-medhas... Su-medhas and alpa-medhas. Medhas means brain substance. Su-medhasah. Su-medhasah. There is a word, the su-medhasah. They... Yes. Sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah. Su-medhasah. And there is another word: alpa-medhasah. Antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam. Su-medhasah means good brain, and alpa-medhas means rascal, less brain substance. Sometimes we say, chastise, that "Your brain, your, this skull, filled up with cow dung. There is no brain substance." So those whose brains are filled up with cow dung, they want to exploit this material world. It is impossible. It is not possible. Under certain pleas only, that "This political party will give you better chance for exploiting." But you cannot do that. It is not possible. This is called maya. In illusion, I'm thinking, "If I make certain more progress..." We see, in America, they're increasing the number of motorcars and the problem is road. One flyway above another flyway, another another. The flyway construction is going on perpetually. Is it not? And this is called advancement. The rascals do not know that "I am simply laboring, laboring, laboring. Where is the stoppage of laboring? " No. That you cannot stop. Your progress means you simply work hard. And because you are illusioned, that hard-working, you are thinking progress, happiness. That's all. This is called maya. He is working just like an ass. The ass, ass, ass is working whole day and night for the washerman for a morsel of grass. But ass, why it is called ass? He can, the ass can have grasses anywhere, but he, for that, he's working very hard for the washerman. Therefore he's ass. He has no sense that "Why I shall work for this washerman so hard? I can get this morsel of grass anywhere." But he'll work.

So ass politician, ass family man, ass community leader. So... All asses, mudhah. Na mam prapadyante mudhah. All asses. They'll not surrender to Krsna to get relief. They'll work like ass. Therefore Krsna says, na mam prapadyante mudhah duskrtino naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. They have no brain, alpa-medhasah. No brain substance. Filled up with cow dung. And those who have got real brain, then, for them it is recommended: sankirtana-prayaih, yajnaih sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah.

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam
sangopangastra-parsadam
yajnaih sankirtana-prayair
yajanti hi su-medhasah
[SB 11.5.32]

Oh, one who has got brain, he catches Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Krsna-varnam, always chanting Hare Krsna mantra. Sangopangastra-parsadam. And simply worship by chanting Hare Krsna. That is brain substance. All cow dung.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.1 -- Vrndavana, November 14, 1972