"Not Attracted To All-atractive"

24 Jan 77 , Bhubanesvara

Prabhupada: (chants Jaya Radha-Madhava, incomplete)

kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya
yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya
[Cc. Madhya 8.128]

This verse we were discussing last night, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's statement that Krsna consciousness is not reserved for any particular person or nation or religion. The central point is that one must understand what is Krsna. The other day somebody inquired, "What is the meaning of 'Krsna'?" "Krsna" means all-attractive. Unless God is all-attractive, how He can become God? So Vrndavana life means Krsna comes, descends Himself to show what is Krsna, what is God. So the picture, Vrndavana life, that is village life. There are villagers, cultivators, cows, calves -- that is Vrndavana. It is not a big city like New York, London. It is village, and the central point is Krsna. This is Vrndavana life. There the gopis, they are village girls and the cowherd boys, they are also village boys. Nanda Maharaja is the head of the village, agriculturist. Similarly, the elderly persons and the elderly gopis, mother Yasoda and her other friends -- all are attracted by Krsna. This is Vrndavana life. They even did not know what is Krsna. They did not know by reading Vedas, Puranas, Vedanta, to understand Krsna. But their natural affection was for Krsna.

So this svabhavika akarsana can be... At the present moment we have no natural attraction for Krsna; therefore we must understand by knowledge what is Krsna. That is Krsna tattva vetta. So why one should be attracted to Krsna unless Krsna has all the attractive features? The attraction... Generally, in this material world we are attracted to a rich man or to a powerful man, man or woman. Just like our Prime Minister, she is woman, but because she is powerful, we are attracted. We talk of her. So the points of attraction are discussed by Parasara Muni as bhaga. Bhaga means opulence. So these opulences... When one is very rich, he is opulent. One is very powerful, he is attractive. One is very influential, one is very beautiful, one is very highly learned... In this way, attraction. So if we scrutinizingly study the life of Krsna, you will find in the history of the world than Krsna there was no richer person, no powerful person than Krsna, no beautiful person than Krsna, more learned and person of knowledge, philosophy than Krsna. If you study you'll find everything. The six opulences are fully represented in Krsna; therefore He is Bhagavan. Bhaga means opulences, and van means one who possesses. This is the meaning of Krsna, that He is all-attractive because He possesses all the six opulences. This is the description of Krsna. So we should not accept anyone and everyone as Bhagavan. We must test whether he has got the six opulences. A person who is begging from door to door, and when there is some bodily pain he immediately goes to the doctor -- "Toothache, sir. Please give me medicine," so does it mean that he is Bhagavan? A Bhagavan cannot cure his tooth pain even? This class of Bhagavan we should not accept. Bhagavan is described in the Bhagavad-gita, asamaurdha. Nobody can be equal to Bhagavan and nobody can be greater than Bhagavan. Therefore Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says particularly, yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya: [Cc. Madhya 8.128] "One who knows Krsna specifically, not superficially, but in all details, What is the meaning of Krsna, what is Krsna, he can become guru." Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita about Himself, krsna-tattva, about..., the truth about Krsna we can understand from Bhagavad-gita with our intelligence. Just like Krsna describes that mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Now you study this one line that Krsna says, "There is nobody greater than Me." Now you study Krsna's life, Compare with anyone and you'll find, "Yes. Nobody is greater or equal to Krsna." This is Krsna.

So at the present moment the defect is that people are not very serious to understand of Krsna, because in this age, as it is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam about the people of this age,

prayenalpayusah (sabhya)
kalav asmin yuge janah
mandah sumanda-matayo
manda-bhagya hy upadrutah
[SB 1.1.10]

Prayenalpayusah. People are living not as they used to live formerly. In this age, Kali-yuga, the maximum years one can live: hundred years in this Kali-yuga. Hundred years. In the Dvapara-yuga it was one thousand years. In the Treta-yuga it was ten thousand years. In the Satya-yuga it was hundred thousand years. It is reducing. Kali-yuga means the duration of age will reduce, the memory will reduce, the bodily strength will reduce, mercifulness will reduce. In this way everything will reduce. This is Kali-yuga. Supply of foodstuff will be reduced. This is Kali-yuga. So mandah. Everyone is bad, not full strength. Mandah sumanda-matayo. And everyone has got a sumanda-mata. Mata means opinion or system which is also sumanda. Not only mandah but sumanda. Everyone is manufacturing a type of Bhagavan, a type of religious system. That is not bona fide at all. Sumanda-matayo. Mandah sumanda matayo. And everyone is unfortunate, manda-bhagya, unfortunate in this sense: they do not know what is the aim of life, how human life should make progress.

(aside:) So you can read the explanation of this. He will explain in Oriya. Purport.

Hari-sauri: Translation: "Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi, or a sudra, regardless of what he is, he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krsna." Purport: "This verse is very important to the Krsna consciousness movement. In his Amrta-pravaha-bhasya, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains that one should not think that because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was born a brahmana and was situated..."

Indian translator: Kindly read one sentence.

Prabhupada: One sentence. Yes. One sentence, finish talk. Then he'll explain.

Hari-sauri: "One should not think that because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was born a brahmana and was situated in the topmost spiritual order as a sannyasi it was improper for Him to receive instructions from Srila Ramananda Raya, who belonged to the sudra caste." [break]

Prabhupada: ...prabhu said,

yei bhaje sei bada abhakta hina chara
krsna bhajanete nahi jati-kuladi-vicara
[Cc. Antya 4.67]

This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's vision. There is no such distinction that one is lower and higher in the matter of Krsna consciousness movement. In the sastras it is clearly stated that unless one is Krsna conscious, he cannot become guru.

sat-karma-nipuno vipro
mantra-tantra-visaradah
avaisnavo gurur na syat
sad-vaisnavah sva-paco guruh

It is said that a brahmana, even though he's well-qualified, sat-karma, brahmana's six occupation, sat-karma-pathana pathan yajana yajana dana pratigraha-sat-karma-nipuno vipro mantra-tantra-visaradah, and he's well expert in Vedic hymns, Vedic understanding -- mantra-tantra, Pancatantra, everything is competent -- but avaisnava, if he's not a devotee of Krsna, he cannot become guru. Sad-vaisnava sva-paco guruh. But if a Vaisnava, even though he may come from the candala family, svapaca, the dog-eater's family -- that is considered the lowest in the human society -- if he becomes a Vaisnava, he is fit for becoming spiritual master. This is the sastric injunction. Our guru, out of the Six Gosvamis, one of them, he has given his direction in the Bhakti... What is that? Hari-bhakti-vilasa, that avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrtam sravanam na kartavyam. A person who is not Vaisnava... Vaisnava means krsna tattva vetta. If he's not well versed in the science of Krsna, if his behavior is not Vaisnava... Sadacara-sampanna. Vaisnava must have dvadasa-tilaka, sikha, sutra, kunti, and there are many things, description. Sadacara-sampranna, Vaisnava. If he's not that, simply by education if he speaks about Krsna, one should not hear. One should not hear. These are professional men. If you pay him something, he'll speak for some time, but his behavior is not Vaisnava. So from such person it is forbidden to hear about Srimad-Bhagavatam or anything about Krsna. Avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrtam, sravanam na kartavyam. So one may say that "He's speaking about Krsna, so what is the wrong there? He may be misbehaved, but he's speaking about Krsna." So that Sanatana Gosvami says, putam hari-kathamrtam. Hari-kathamrtam is always pure. That's all right. But avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrta, sravanam... Why? Sarpocchistam payo yatha. Everyone knows milk is very nice and nutritious food, but if it is touched by the lips of a serpent, it is spoiled, no more to be... So it is forbidden, that we should not try to understand about Krsna from a person who is not Vaisnava. Explain. [break]

At the present moment there are so-called scholars, politicians or philosophers, they have nothing to do with Krsna or Krsna -- bhakti, but just to take advantage of the Bhagavad-gita they are explaining Bhagavad-gita in their own way. [break] One should not spoil his life by hearing or understanding the version given by such avaisnava. So if we want to derive actual benefit from the Bhagavad-gita, we must approach such person who has understood what is Krsna. So therefore Krsna gives the direction:

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti tad jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsanam
[Bg. 4.34]

We should approach, we must approach, yei krsna tattva vetta. We must learn from him about Krsna. Then we can understand Krsna. Otherwise not possible. Go on reading. [break] ...movement here giving this yajnopavita to the Europeans and Americans because they are now qualified. So sometimes we are criticized in India, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami is spoiling Hindu religion." But it is not actually the fact. We are increasing the number of Hindus. Unfortunately these, our these European and American disciples, these so-called brahmana priests of Jagannatha Puri, they do not allow.
Guest (1): Americans, they are not allowed to see Jagannatha temple. What Prabhu Bhaktivedanta is doing? What he's doing for them?

Prabhupada: That is up to you. We... [break] ...vaisnave jati-buddhih, arcye sila-dhir. Everyone knows in the temple... Just like Jagannatha. Everyone knows Jagannatha is made of wood, or, in other temple, made of stone. But people, do they come to see wood and stone? So if anyone thinks... Sometimes the atheist class, they think that "These foolish men, they are going to see a piece of wood." This is naraki-buddhi. Similarly, arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matih. Those who are acting as guru according to the description, if somebody thinks that "This man is ordinary person," and vaisnave jati-buddhih, similarly caranamrta, Gangajala, if somebody thinks ordinary water, so "he's naraki." So these Europeans, Americans who are properly initiated according to Vaisnava system, according to Caitanya Mahaprabhu's indication, if somebody thinks their jati, angrej jati or American jati, he's naraki. What can be done?

Guest (2): What are the reasons why one should not hear from one who has got sufficient knowledge on Lord Krsna if he is not outwardly a Vaisnava? That means he's not having sikha or kunti, like that.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Hari-sauri: He says, "What's wrong with hearing from someone if he has some knowledge of Krsna even if he doesn't have a sikha and tilaka and what have you?"

Prabhupada: That is the injunction of authority. Avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-ka..., sravanam na kartavyam. We have to abide by the orders of the superiors. "Why?" -- there is no question. Authority says; you have to accept. You cannot say "Why?" Vedic injunction. Therefore Krsna was accepted as guru by Arjuna. Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Because as friend and friend the reply and argument will go on, to stop this argument Krsna is accepted as guru, not as friend. Similarly, when you accept a guru, you must accept guru according to the Vedic principle. So here guru, Sanatana Gosvami, he is giving the injunction that avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrtam sravanam na kartavyam. Exceptional case is different, the paramahamsa stage. But a guru, although he is paramahamsa, because he is teaching, he come down as madhyama-adhikari. There are three kinds of Vaisnava: kanistha adhikari, madhyama adhikari and uttama adhikari. Uttama adhikari may be without kunti, without sikha, without Vaisnava symptoms. He's paramahamsa. But when he comes to the preaching platform he must become a madhyama adhikari, not to imitate uttama adhikari, because he has to teach. He cannot deviate from the teaching principles. So what you are speaking, that "Without sikha without kunti, one can become guru," that is fact for the paramahamsa, not for the preacher. Preacher must behave very nicely.

Guest (3): Maharaja, it is true that one should follow Krsna consciousness for spiritual progress, no doubt, but who and why this present society situated which we observe in this world, in the modern civilization?

Prabhupada: You can come please here. We can hear. You can come. What do you mean by "modern civilization"?

Guest (3): The civilization we are now going through.

Prabhupada: So what do you mean by "modern civilization"? That means to violate all the rules and regulation? Does it mean modern civilization?

Guest (2): Question was, "Why there is a chaotic situation if...," I think if I'm understanding him correctly, "Why there is a chaotic situation? If God is to uplift the soul of all the persons, all the livings, why there is a chaotic situation?" Lord Krsna has said that yada yada hi glanir bhavati... That is the answer, guru will say. Why there is a chaotic situation? That is his question, sir.

Prabhupada: The chaotic sit..., must be there. Krsna says one thing and you do other thing. So why there shouldn't be chaotic condition? You hear Krsna, you follow Krsna; there will be order. But if you do not follow, Krsna says something and you do something... Krsna says that,

evam parampara-praptam
imam rajarsayo viduh
sa kaleneha (mahata)
yoga nasto parantapa
[Bg. 4.2]

Krsna says that this Bhagavad-gita,

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave prahur
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]

Krsna says the way of studying Bhagavad-gita, but you do not accept Krsna's instruction. You read all rascal's Bhagavad-gita commentary. Then why there shall not be chaotic condition? You do not follow. He strictly prohibits. Evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2], sa kaleneha yogo nastah parantapa. Yogo nastah. As soon as the parampara system is not accepted, the so-called commentary on Bhagavad-gita is lost or rotten. So you are interested with the rotten commentary of so-called politicians, scholars. So how you'll get the benefit? Therefore it is chaotic.

Guest (3): Lord Krsna preached Bhagavad-gita in battlefield of Kuruksetra, and it is afterwards written by Vyasadeva.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (2): Is the Vyasadeva got it out of his meditation, or how the actual thing which was conveyed to Arjuna was again in real thing took a shape in Bhagavad-gita?

Prabhupada: That you have no intelligence to understand. But what is given by Vyasadeva, that is accepted by all the acaryas. We are not so learned as you are, but we follow the acarya. And it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gita, acaryopasanam. You must follow the acaryas, the Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, even Sankaracarya, Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then you'll get the real answer. Acaryavan puruso veda: "One who follows the acarya, he knows." Others, they do not know. So you cannot question "Why? How Vyasadeva wrote?" That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Sanjaya says vyasa prasada. How one can understand? By the mercy of Vyasadeva. So we have to see. Instead of criticizing in that adverse way, we have to follow the acarya. Acaryopasanam. So you'll find Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami, Nimbarka, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they have accepted in that way. So what is the use of our questioning? We should follow. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Otherwise it is not possible.

Guest (4): I think Bhagavad-gita invisible treasure of all the sums of teaching of...

Prabhupada: Invisible for the nondevotees. Naham prakasah sarvasya yogamaya-samavrtah [Bg. 7.25]. But for devotee He's visible. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are real devotee of God, they are hours seeing Him within the heart. So God is not invisible. Invisible for the atheist.

Guest (5): We see some invisible action and some outer action.

Prabhupada: What is invisible?

Guest (5): Man is simple instrument in the hands of God. That I know. God is doing everything or the man? Then the point comes why the brahmanas of the Jagannatha temple are not allowing foreigners... Sri Krsna says, atmanu:(?) "I live in (indistinct)." That means this atma is Parambrahma Himself. If so, why the brahmanas of Jagannatha temple are not allowing them and...?

Prabhupada: So why in other temples they are allowed? No. God wants that these rascals may remain in darkness. They cannot understand Vaisnava. Let them remain in darkness. That God wants.

Guest (5): Krsna, Rama, Hari...

Prabhupada: No. Your answer is this, that "Why God does not...?" God wants that "These so-called brahmanas who eat Jagannatha-prasada with fish, let them remain in darkness, not to understand who is Vaisnava."

Guest (5): That is true...

Prabhupada: That is true. Take it, that. That's all. (laughter)

Guest (5): But to understand the God...

Prabhupada: Tan aham dvisatah kruran ksipamy ajasram andha-yonisu [Bg. 16.19]. Those who are vaisnava-dvesi, bhagavad-dvesi, God keeps them in darkness perpetually.

Guest (5): What is the reason between man and God? That is the point we have to understood.

Prabhupada: We have to understood... Come to this school and learn it, not in a minute.

Guest (5): Sir, not minute.

Prabhupada: Then why you are asking all these things? You come, become a student, and learn. It is not so easy subject that standing for one minute, you'll understand everything.

Guest (5): Not standing. If God... If God is not doing everything...

Prabhupada: God is doing everything. I have already explained. If you want to remain a demon, God will keep you in demonic condition. That's it. He is doing everything. That's a fact. And if you want to be devotee, then God can make you devotee also. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajami [Bg. 4.11].

Guest (5): That would be good.

Prabhupada: Yes. So...

Guest (5): That's why I asked of the point which is not clear to me. That's why I asked of the point. I know that God is, God is moving everything...

Prabhupada: God is doing everything. That's a fact.

Guest (5): Krsna says in the Gita, "I am moving everything.(?)" If so, if Sri Krsna is in the heart, if not then... If Sri Krsna is entering in every heart -- He's God -- then Americans are also. If Krsna is living in every heart, this atma itself, God, Parambrahma, atma in maya, being entangled...

Prabhupada: The God never says the atma is Parabrahman. Why you are talking like that?

Guest (5): No. If the atma is not God, then what is there?

Prabhupada: God is...

Guest (5): Due to the presence of a God... This life force is not God. Due to presence of God this atma is living.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Atma is there. You have studied Bhagavad-gita or not? First of all tell me. Do you think atma and Paramatma are the same thing?

Guest (5): Mostly the same thing. Yes. (laughter)

Prabhupada: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. First of all try to understand. That is foolishness. Atma and Paramatma -- different.

Guest (5): Advaitavada, dvaitavada, visistadvaitavada...

Prabhupada: No, no. I am talking of Bhagavad-gita as it is. Don't bring this vada, that vada. In the Bhagavad-gita the atma and Paramatma is not the same.

Guest (5): No, then, well... We have to accept dualism. There are two...

Prabhupada: No. Whatever "ism," we are talking of Bhagavad-gita. So Bhagavad-gita -- atma and Paramatma different.

Guest (5): This atma is giving forms to Paramatma.

Prabhupada: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. In the Bhagavad-gita that is not stated.

Guest (5): With our intelligence we both cannot understand the thing, what is Parambrahman, but real philosophy is dvaitavada, advaitavada, one monism.

Prabhupada: So dvaitavada, advaitavada, there may be. But we are talking of Bhagavad-gita. In the Bhagavad-gita what is there? You speak.

Guest (5): Knowledge of our atma. Bhagavad-gita is connected to our atma. Excuse me.

Prabhupada: Bhagavad-gita, it is clearly stated that... What is that? Ksetra-ksetrajna. Ksetrajna. Just hear. Hear, please. Hear. Hear, please. Yes. Now, Krsna says, ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi: "So I am also ksetrajna, and the jiva is also ksetrajna." So that does not mean... First of all hear. Then say yes or no. He says, ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata: "I am also ksetrajnam, but sarva-ksetresu." If atma... I am atma; you are atma. You know your ksetra; I know my ksetra. But I do not know your ksetra; you do not know my ksetra. That is Bhagavan. He knows everyone. Ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata. So Krsna or Bhagavan, He is sarva-ksetresu, but you are only your ksetra. Therefore dvaitavada, two different ksetras, ksetrajnas. One ksetrajna is all-pervading and one ksetrajna is localized. Therefore two ksetrajnas. It is dvaitavada. Yes. You see Bhagavad-gita? You have read Bhagavad-gita?

Guest (5): In this atma, two ksetrajnas.

Prabhupada: In this... Not atma. In this body. There are two ksetrajnas. One is the individual ksetrajna.

Guest (5): But we mean to who is residing in the heart with the atma.

Prabhupada: Yes. Then He's ksetrajna.

Guest (5): Who become splitted after our death, that is the ksetrajna.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (5): Then it will be two.

Prabhupada: There are two ksetrajnas: one ksetrajna, the individual soul, and the other ksetrajna is Bhagavan. There are two ksetrajnas. Dvaitavada.

Guest (5): Yes. Then this monism and dualism, then what about the Visista-advaita?

Prabhupada: No, no. We are talking of Bhagavad-gita. Why you are bringing so many things? First of all try to understand the simple thing in the Bhagavad-gita. Then bring big, big words. Yes, there are two ksetrajnas. You have to accept it.

Guest (5): Two ksetrajnas.

Prabhupada: Yes!

Guest (5): Then duality.

Prabhupada: Yes!

Guest (5): Then there are two Gods.

Prabhupada: Yes. Not two Gods. One God. One is servant. Not two Gods. There cannot be two Gods. Otherwise Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7].

Guest (5): Two ksetrajna means two Gods.

Prabhupada: Why ksetrajna two Gods?

Guest (5): Because jna means God.

Prabhupada: Then why two Gods?

Guest (5): Two ksetrajna.

Prabhupada: No! Two ksetrajnas does not mean two Gods. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. So He is all-pervading. You are not all-pervading.

Guest (5): Krsna is all-pervading.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (5): But by sandhana, by sandhana...

Prabhupada: So even if you say... Even if you...

Guest (5): I can also pervade. I can also pervade. (laughter)

Prabhupada: What is that?

Bhagavata: By sadhana he can become all-pervading himself.

Prabhupada: That is foolishness. That is foolishness.

Guest (4): There is no use in argument.

Prabhupada: That is not possible.

Guest (5): In this body...

Prabhupada: That is not possible. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva loke sanatana [Bg. 15.7]. Sanatana-jiva-loke jiva amsa. Amsa cannot be the full. Yes. Amsa, part, cannot be equal to the whole.

Guest (5): Then if we be the parcels of God, then what about prarabdha? We are suffering from pain and pleasure...

Prabhupada: So you are suffering. God is not suffering.

Guest (5): No. God is not suffering.

Prabhupada: Then, therefore, difference between you and God. You are suffering god and he's enjoying God.

Guest (5): We are enjoying the prarabdha, is it not?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (5): Pain and pleasure is part of God.

Prabhupada: Yes. That prarabdha. That is the... But God is not...

Guest (5): This is not argument. I have no equal.(?)

Prabhupada: God is not under the laws of karma.

Guest (5): Swami, I want to know from swami.

Hari-sauri: If you want to know, then listen! If you want to know, listen. Don't speak!

Guest (5): All are waves and bubbles of the same sea. We are the bubbles and waves of the same sea, same Parambrahman, this atma, Himself... (quotes Sanskrit) Om bhur bhuvah svah... [break]

Prabhupada: Krsna says ca, this word. Ksetrajnam ca means "I am also ksetrajna." Therefore He is different from the ordinary ksetrajna. First of all try to understand this. Ca means different, another. And the difference is that sarva-ksetresu bharata, whereas the individual ksetrajna is within the body. That's all. [break] ...there is no advaitavada. There may be advaitavada philosophy, but in Bhagavad-gita there is no adva itavada. It is dvaitavada. Otherwise why Krsna said, sarva-dharman partiyajya mam ekam saranam: "You saranam vraja. You are different from Me"? Krsna says. Otherwise why Krsna asked that "You surrender"? That you and I, different. That is dvaitavada.

Guest (5): Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], that can I understood, all arguments.

Prabhupada: No. You can understand anything, but that is not the thing. We have to take it as it is. We are therefore presenting Bhagavad-gita as God is commanding you, that "You surrender." So you are different from God.

Guest (5): That means, surrender means I am not a doer. I am not doing anything. God, who is residing within me...

Prabhupada: Surrender. Who will surrender? Unless you are servant, why shall you surrender? You are servant; God is master. So therefore master and servant different.

Guest (5): No, that is true. I am not God. But God is there within me. God is everybody.

Prabhupada: That's all... God is everywhere.

Guest (5): He's within ant and dog and elephant and everybody.

Prabhupada: That...

Guest (5): Due to presence of God, this small living being, due to presence of God...

Prabhupada: God is within dog. Therefore does it mean God is dog also?

Guest (5): No. God is not dog. God is a ...

Prabhupada: Then you are putting the same argument. Because God is there within dog, therefore God is dog.

Guest (5): When we are talking...

Prabhupada: Yes. they are talking like that: daridra-narayana.

Guest (5): God is in everywhere.


Prabhupada: God is everywhere. That is understood. But that does not mean... God says, mat-sthani sarva-bhutani naham tesu avasthitah [Bg. 9.4]. Why don't you read this?

Guest (5): No. That is true. If we will not believe that, then we will be helping people? We will be helping lot of people? No, that is not...

Prabhupada: Well, we understand Bhagavad-gita as it is. We don't make any interpretation.

Guest (5): In Bhagavad-gita Sri Krsna says, "I live in everybody."

Prabhupada: Who denies that? That does not mean God is everything.

Guest (5): No. God is not everything.

Prabhupada: Then dvaitavada -- everything and God is different. That is dvaitavada.

Guest (5): Then we have to love everybody, everything.

Prabhupada: So who says no? Unless we love everyone, why we are traveling all over the world?

Guest (5): Love is God, accept, param dharma.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (5): Truth I understand.

Prabhupada: That's it. That is... That is wanted. Param brahma param dhama pavitram [Bg. 10.12].

Guest (5): Otherwise we can't love a poor man...

Satsvarupa: Enough argument. Sit down. Then no more argument.

Guest (3): I think Lord has said in the Bhagavad-gita...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (3): "Like sky, everywhere I am pervading, like one sun giving light to all."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (3): "So in all souls I am pervading."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (3): That much clear answer to his question, the difference between the all-pervading Lord...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (3): ...and the individual soul.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (3): And also He has said that Paramatma, He is Purusottama, greater than the soul. The soul is also...

Prabhupada: Purusa. Soul is described as purusa.

Guest (3): Greater than him. So that also establishes that...

Prabhupada: Dvaitavada.

Guest (3): Yes. God is different. And we cannot say that we are equal to God.

Prabhupada: Yes. And God says further, mattah parataram nanyat: [Bg. 7.7] "Nobody is equal." Asamaurdha: "Nobody is equal to God; nobody is greater than God." That is God. All right. Chant Hare Krsna. (end)


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