"Sense Gratification -- No Sense"

7 Oct 75 , Durban


Prabhupada: (chants mangalacarana prayers) Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this great movement. This movement is not started by me. This was started long, long years ago by Krsna Himself. Firstly, He spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad-gita to the sun-god. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, Fourth Chapter,

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave prahur
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]

evam parampara-praptam
imam rajarsayo viduh
[Bg. 4.2]

So if we calculate the age of Manu, it comes to the point of forty millions of years. So Krsna said that forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad-gita to the sun-god, Vivasvan. The name of the predominating deity in the sun planet is Vivasvan. His son, Manu, Vaivasvata Manu... His son, Iksvaku, the original person in the dynasty Surya-vamsa, in which Lord Ramacandra appeared, Iksvaku... So in this way this Krsna consciousness movement is coming since a very, very long time. But Krsna said, evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]: "Formerly the rajarsis, they used to receive this instruction through the chain of disciplic succession." That was the way of understanding Bhagavad-gita. But Krsna said, sa kaleneha yogo nasto parantapa. Now Krsna, five thousand years ago, when Krsna was talking with Arjuna in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra, he was perplexed whether to fight or not to fight, and just to enthuse him in the fighting, He spoke this Bhagavad-gita five thousand years ago to Arjuna. And He said there that "The parampara system, disciplic succession, is now broken; therefore I am speaking to you again so that people may learn from you what is the purport of this philosophy, Krsna consciousness."

So five thousand years ago this philosophy was spoken to Arjuna, and we are having the instruction. Unfortunately that is again being distorted. Because we do not receive through the parampara system, we inference, we make inferences in our own way, and therefore it is also again broken. Therefore again, five hundred years ago, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructed this Bhagavad-gita as a devotee. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is supposed to be incarnation of Krsna. As Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He instructed as the order-giving master, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], but still, people misunderstood. Therefore this time, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Krsna Himself, appeared as a devotee of Krsna. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna. That is described in the authentic sastra:

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam
sangopangastra-parsadam
yajnair sankirtanaih prayair
yajanti hi su-medhasah
[SB 11.5.32]

So this Krsna consciousness movement is practically Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement. And Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself. So Krsna is very kind upon the conditioned soul. He is trying to elevate them to the real platform of Krsna consciousness again and again. But we are so stubborn, we are trying to forget Krsna again and again. This is going on. So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is... Especially He is instructing to the Indian people. He is saying to the Indian people, bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu appeared in Bengal, you know, in the district of Navadvipa, about sixty-four miles from Calcutta, northern side. So His life and precepts are there. We have translated many books. You'll find Teachings of Lord Caitanya and Caitanya-caritamrta, almost seventeen volumes, Caitanya-caritamrta. And we have summarized the teaching in one volume. So you can learn about the teachings of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. But the summary of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching is like this. He says to every Indian, not only Bengalis... It is not that because He appeared in Bengal, therefore He advised to the Bengalis. He is especially speaking to the Indians.

bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]

Para-upakara. He says that "Anyone who has taken birth in India, Bharatabhumi..." Bharatabhumi is punya-bhumi, the pious land. Within this universe... In the sastra we find that even the demigods in the heavenly planets, they desire to take birth in India. India is so glorious. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is that anyone who has taken birth as a human being in India, his business is to first of all make his life perfect by taking advantage of the Vedic knowledge, because it is available in India. So every Indian, especially the higher circles, namely the brahmanas, ksatriyas, and the vaisyas, especially the brahmana, it is their business to make the life perfect by studying the Vedic knowledge and distribute the knowledge all over the world. Para-upakara. Because, so far spiritual knowledge is concerned, outside India they have got very meager knowledge; therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu requested that every Indian, especially the higher class, study the Vedic knowledge and distribute it throughout the whole world.

bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]

Para-upakara. This Krsna consciousness is the best welfare activities in the world because people are in ignorance. They are... Everyone, practically 99.9%, at the present moment, they are under the conception, bodily conception: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," like that. That is ignorance. That will be discussed in the Bhagavad-gita very elaborately. So the question may be raised that "How I can do welfare activities for the welfare of the whole world?" The Caitanya Mahaprabhu encourages. He says that amara ajnaya hana tara ei desa: "Wherever you are staying," ei desa, "in that country... You may not go outside, but wherever you are staying," amara ajnaya, "by My order," guru hana, "you must become a guru" -- by the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. "Then? I have no education. How can I become a guru? How can I instruct?" Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, "Yes, that I know. But you take My order." Amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "Then what shall I do?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa: "You become guru. You haven't got to manufacture anything, any philosophy. You simply instruct whatever is spoken by Krsna. That's all. You become a guru." So our request is that you are so many Indians living in this foreign country for generations. So take this instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Because you are coming from India, therefore it is special request to you that "By the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, every one of you become a guru." And what shall you have to do? Amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Ei desa. This South Africa, you are staying here. So you preach as a guru. And what shall you preach? Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You haven't got to do anything. The instruction of Krsna is there in the Bhagavad-gita. Don't distort it, but put it as it is. That's your duty. If you do simply this thing... Because in the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly said that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Krsna says Himself that mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7].

aham sarvasya prabhavah
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
[Bg. 10.8]

This thing we have to understand, that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He is accepted. Arjuna heard from Krsna about Himself, and he says... He agreed, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. So He is accepted by the direct disciple, Arjuna; He is accepted by Vyasadeva; He is accepted by Narada Muni; and recently, within two thousand years, He is accepted by all the acaryas of India-Sankaracarya, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami; and lately, five hundred years ago, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So there is no doubt about Krsna's becoming the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is confirmed, ete camsa kalah pumsam krsnas tu bhagavan svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "The original Personality of Godhead-Krsna." Similarly, in the Upanisad, in the Vedas, and Brahma-samhita, if you take evidence from the sastras, everywhere you will find, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. In the Brahma-samhita, which is supposed to be written by Lord Brahma, he says in the beginning,

isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]

So from sastric evidences, from authentic evidences, from the acaryas, from Bhagavad-gita itself -- everywhere you will find the confirmation, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is that yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. It is not difficult. You simply take up the instruction of Bhagavad-gita and try to preach, yare dekha tare. Whomever you meet. You may remain as a businessman, you may remain whatever you are, you remain a family head, but instruct this advice of Krsna-yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is our mission.

So Krsna, when... The instruction of Krsna begins when Arjuna was very much perplexed, very much perplexed whether to fight. Because the other side was his brother, his nephews, his son-in-law, his grandfather, his teacher. So when he saw in the battlefield all relatives, friends, and kinsmen, so he was perplexed. So Arjuna was very much compassionate that he practically said, "Krsna, I am not going to fight." Then Arjuna also knew that "Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So my perplexity can be eradicated only by Krsna." Therefore he submitted to Krsna, sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I am in great perplexity." Everyone is in great perplexity. There is no doubt. Anyone in this material world is full of anxiety and perplexity. So it is not only Arjuna's, I mean to say, problem. It is the problem of everyone. So if we want to solve the problems of life, we should accept Krsna as the supreme teacher. This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gita and Arjuna. Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam: "My dear Krsna, now I am asking You to become my teacher." (aside:) Don't disturb. "I am asking You to become my teacher and solve my problem."

So Krsna, first of all He says that... Sanjaya uvaca. Sanjaya was explaining Bhagavad-gita before Dhrtarastra.

evam uktva hrsikesam
gudakesah parantapah
na yotsya iti govindam
uktva tusnim babhuva ha
[Bg. 2.9]

So Sanjaya said that evam uktva, "Krsna, I am not going to fight," evam uktva hrsikesam, "unto Krsna..." Krsna's another name is Hrsikesa. Hrsikesa means... Hrsika means the senses, and isa means the master. So we have got our senses. Everyone has got senses. The master is Krsna. We are not the master. That we have to understand. I am speaking that "This is my hand," but if the power of the hand is withdrawn by Krsna, we cannot act. We should understand this way, that none of our senses belong to us. It is given to us for proper use. Therefore, because it is given to us by the Supreme Lord, Krsna, the master of the senses, it should be utilized for Krsna. This is bhakti-yoga. We should know that "Although we have got all these senses, it has been given to us for use, but the senses do not belong to me." Therefore Krsna's name is Hrsikesa. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means when we, you use your senses, hrsikena... Hrsikena means "by the senses"; hrsikesam, "the master of the senses." Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate: "This is called bhakti." At the present moment, under the condition of material nature, we are using our senses for our sense gratification. That is called conditional stage. And we are becoming subjected to so many changes of circumstances in different bodies. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. We are creating a different situation by utilizing senses for our personal sense gratification, and we have become bound up, bound by the laws of nature. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Yajnarthe karma anyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanah [Bg. 3.9]. Karma-bandhana. Yajna. Yajna means Visnu, yajna-purusa. If you work for Krsna, then you are doing right; otherwise you have become implicated. Yajnarthe karma anyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanah [Bg. 3.9]. This is the teaching of Bhagavad-gita.

Now, just like Arjuna. What is the instruction of Bhagavad-gita? Arjuna is a fighter. Why? He's a soldier. He knew how to fight. That's all. He's not a Vedantist; he is not a brahmana; he is not a sannyasi. He is grhastha, householder. He appeared on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra for fighting on political reasons. So he knew all this business. But he utilized his talent in fighting art for Krsna. He did not want to fight. As a Vaisnava, he is very kind. He said that "My brothers, my cousins, certainly they have insulted my wife. They have taken my kingdom by gambling and so many devices. I know that. Still, because they are my brothers, I don't wish to kill them." This is Vaisnava's attitude. But Krsna, His business is yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. When there is injustice, it must be faced with fighting. That is Krsna's version. So Arjuna, as a Vaisnava, did not like to fight. But Krsna, as the supreme mediator... That is also good for everything. Whatever Krsna does, that is..., "God is good." There is nothing bad. So anyway, Arjuna, when he heard Bhagavad-gita very minutely, he was asked by Krsna, "Now I have explained to you the Bhagavad-gita, the knowledge, the spiritual knowledge. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathecchasi tatha kuru: [Bg. 18.63] "Whatever you like... Now it is up to you. If you don't fight, that you can decide. I have no objection because you have little independence. But My advice is that you should fight. Now I ask you what you are going to do." So Arjuna replied that, nasto mohah smrtir labdha tvat-prasadan madhusudana, karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. "Now I shall do it." This is Bhagavad-gita. This is bhakti, that we have to act according to the advice of the Supreme Lord. That is bhakti. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

So therefore we have to first of all establish our relationship with God. Your establish..., is already

established. Just like the father and the son -- the relationship is already there. It is not... But still, sometimes the son goes out of home and may be forgetting his father. Similarly, we are out of home. We have come from the spiritual world in this material world. We have forgotten our father. So we have to revive this relationship with our father, or God, or Krsna. That is the main business of human life. In other species of life lower than the human being it is not possible to revive our old relationship with God. But in this life... Therefore this is the greatest opportunity. After all, we are under the grip of material nature's law. That is explained in there. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. According to our desire, we are creating a different type of body, and after death, tatha dehantara-praptih. Just like the child is become a boy, the boy is becoming young man, the young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man. So what is next after the old body? The next is tatha dehantara-praptih: you have to accept another body. This is called chain or cycle of birth and death, or transmigration of the soul. This is going on. So if you want to... But nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to change this body. But this is a problem. One should know it. That is the first instruction given by Krsna... [break] ...Arjuna, that we are changing. Tatha dehantara-praptih. So this is the opportunity, human life. If we want to stop this repetition of birth and death under different obligation and different circumstances, we should take instruction from Krsna, try to understand Krsna -- that is Bhagavad-gita -- and make our life successful so that... Understanding Krsna means, as it is stated, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. We have come from God; we again go back to God if we simply understand Krsna, or God. This is the whole instruction of the Bhagavad-gita. And when Arjuna was perplexed that "How shall I kill the other side?" then Krsna informed him in the beginning,

evam uktva hrsikesam
gudakesah parantapah
na yotsya iti govindam
uktva tusnim babhuva ha
[Bg. 2.9]

"He completely became silent. 'Krsna, I am not going to fight.' " Therefore,

tam uvaca hrsikesah
prahasann iva bharata
senayor ubhayor madhye
visidantam idam vacah
[Bg. 2.10]

Then Krsna was smiling, that "Arjuna is my friend, and he is so much overwhelmed with material consciousness of life." Therefore it is said, tam uvaca hrsikesah prahasann: He was smiling, that "You are My friend. You should not have done like this." Prahasann iva bharata senayor ubhayor madhye: "Between the two parties of soldiers," visidantam, "he was lamenting."

So because Krsna was accepted as the teacher, as the master, so He is chastising Arjuna.

sri-bhagavan uvaca

asocyan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
nanusocanti panditah
[Bg. 2.11]


"My dear Arjuna, you talk very much just like a learned man." Prajna-vadams ca bhasase. Prajna-vadams means talking just like a learned man. "Unfortunately, you are not a learned man because you are lamenting on this body." He said, gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah: "Anyone who is learned, he does not lament over this body whether in living position or dead position. So you are talking like a learned man, but you are not a learned man." This is the first instruction. Because Arjuna accepted Krsna, He chastised him with little hard words, that "You are not a pandita." Now, you just consider what is the position of this world. Everyone is taking care of this body. But Krsna said, gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah. The panditah, one who is learned, he knows that he is not this body. He is soul. So our first business is to take care of the soul. And this is the opportunity, this human form of body. In the human form of body we can understand Bhagavad-gita, not in the dog's body. That is not possible. So by evolution, jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati, from aquatics to trees, plants, then insects, then birds, then beast, then human being, then civilized human being... In this civilized form of human being, if we do not take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gita personally given by the Lord Himself, then we are missing the point. This is the whole Vedic literature's lesson, that human form of life is meant for self-realization: "I am not this body. I am soul. I am spirit soul. My business is different from simply taking care of the body." This is human civilization. So therefore our Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. We request everyone to study this movement very seriously and make one's life successful. And what is that success? Simply try to understand Krsna. If you simply try to understand Krsna... And Krsna is explaining Himself. When I speak of Krsna, everyone should know that Krsna means God. So if we try to understand simply Krsna, or God, in this life, then we become liberated. We become free from this material bondage. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is the assurance given in the Bhagavad-gita. If you simply try to understand Krsna... Janma karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. Now, in truth you should understand Krsna, what is Krsna. And there is no difficulty. Krsna is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gita.

So our only request is that you, all of you, you try to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is. Don't interpret in a different way. Then you will understand Krsna. And as soon as you understand Krsna, you become free from this material bondage, no more accepting... Tyaktva deham. We have to give up this body, that is certain. The cats and dogs will also give up their body, we'll have also give... But before giving up this body, if we simply understand Krsna, then our life becomes successful. What is that success? That after giving up this body we are not going to accept anything, our material body. Then we stand in our original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is there within the body. That will be explained very nicely. So we... Our mission is to come to the platform of our spiritual body. It is very simple, simply by understanding the instruction of Krsna. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu has made it still simplified. What is that? He advises, "Chant Hare Krsna mantra."

harer nama harer nama harer nama iva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
[Cc. Adi 17.21]

In this age, as we are fallen, so the method is also given very simplified. It is confirmed in the sastras, in the Srimad-Bhagavatam also, that kaler dosa-nidhe rajann asmin hy eko mahan gunah, that this time, this Kali, this age... This is called Kali age, misunderstanding and fighting. So in this age there are so many faults in the human society. It is just like ocean. Kaler dosa-nidhe. Nidhi means the ocean. Dosa-nidhi, fault, ocean of fault. Dosa-nidhe rajann. "There is one great opportunity." What is that? Kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sangah param vrajet: [SB 12.3.51] "If one takes to this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra," kirtanad eva krsnasya, "then mukta-sanga, he becomes liberated," and param vrajet, "he becomes eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead." So these things are there. Our Krsna consciousness movement is only to give you information, just like a peon delivers the letter from a friend. He has nothing to do. So we are trying to deliver the message of Krsna to you. You kindly accept it and utilize it.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [break]

Indian man (1): Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Rama, Rama Rama. In the name of God. I feel it is my duty to... [break]

Pusta Krsna: The question is, "Why should one pray to God?"

Prabhupada: Our prayer is, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has taught,

ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram
patitam mam visame bhavambudhau
krpaya tava pada-pankaja
sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya
[Cc. Antya 20.32, Siksastaka 5]

Just like if you are in danger, you ask your friends to help you. This is prayer. So our prayer is, to Krsna, ayi nanda-tanuja. Nanda-tanuja means... Krsna appeared as the foster son of Nanda Maharaja; therefore He is addressed as nanda-tanuja, means "the son of Maharaja Nanda." So patitam kinkaram mam visame bhavambudhau. "I am your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean of nescience, ignorance." Just like if you are a person of the land, if you are thrown in the ocean, it is struggle for existence. Manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. This is struggle for exis... Everyone is struggling. But what you will struggle in the ocean? You may be a very big swimmer, but how long you shall swim? You will be tired. The only means is to take you out of the ocean. Even one inch above the ocean is your safety. It doesn't matter how many inches you are taken from the ocean. Similarly, the prayer is, "My dear Lord Krsna, I am your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean. Please pick me up and fix me again as the dust of Your lotus feet." This is the prayer. So we should know in what dangerous position we are. Then there is necessity of prayer. And prayer to whom? To the Supreme Person to save us. Therefore there are so many prayers in the sastra. Prayers means addressing the Lord to save us from this. The real saving is to pick us up from this ocean of nescience, ignorance. Then everything is all right. As soon as we come to the knowledge that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God," then our knowledge is perfect. This is called brahma-bhutah prasannatma. This is called Brahman realization.

brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
[Bg. 18.54]

So prayer is needed because we are in danger. And actually we pray when we are in great danger. Suppose if immediately there is some earthquake or there is some danger, naturally, spontaneously, we pray. We pray. But we forget it. But the prayer, the tendency of offering prayer to the Lord at the time of danger, is automatic. So we should know that we are in danger. We are in this material condition of life means we are in danger. Therefore we should pray. We must pray to pick him up, to pick us up. That is necessity of prayer.

Pusta Krsna: Are there any questions?

Indian man (2): Swamiji, I would like to know from you whether or not it is necessary for a person to be a vegetarian or to have a special diet to be able to respond to the..., your teachings...

Prabhupada: What is that?

Pusta Krsna: He would like to know whether it is necessary for one to be a vegetarian or not in order to respond or understand the teachings.

Prabhupada: Yes. Because if you want to be Krsna conscious -- that is the whole teaching -- you have to act according to the instruction of Krsna. So vegetarian or not vegetarian, it is not a very important thing. Either you eat meat or vegetable, both of them have got life. That is the nature's way. Jivo jivasya jivanam. One life has to eat another life. That is nature's law. But Krsna consciousness means he does not anymore eat anything which is not offered to Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness. We take prasadam. Whatever is offered to Krsna, we take that. So Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati tad aham asnami [Bg. 9.26]. So just like if you ask some guest at your home, you will ask him, "What you shall eat, sir? What can I offer you?" Similarly, when you invite Krsna to your home or to your temple, you should prepare foodstuff according to Krsna's instruction, not according to your whims. So Krsna says, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati: "Anyone who offers Me patram" -- that is vegetable -- "puspam" -- vegetable -- "and liquid things like milk, water..." And you can prepare so many other things from vegetables. If you offer to Krsna and take prasadam, then you are free. That is, yajna-sistasinah santo mucyante sarva-kilbisaih. If you accept foodstuff which is offered for yajna-yajna means acceptance by Krsna -- then you are free from sinful life. Otherwise you are responsible. Either you eat meat or vegetable, it doesn't matter.

Pusta Krsna: Are there any more questions?

Prabhupada: No. One man once.

Pusta Krsna: There are many other people who would like to ask questions.

Prabhupada: Others should be given opportunity.

Indian man (3): I would like to have this question. Why should one accept this Krsna as God?

Prabhupada: That I have already explained. We have to accept the Vedic evidence. So the Vedic evidence establishes krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Otherwise you have no opportunity to understand what is God. Then, if you don't accept Krsna as God, then present somebody else who is God and whether he is satisfying the definition of God. So considering the Vedic evidences, authorities, we have to accept Krsna as God. And when He was present on this planet, He proved that He is God. Then we have no other alternative than to accept Krsna as God.

Pusta Krsna: Any other questions? Yes.

Indian man (4): With the present state of the world as it is -- it seems to be in a pretty mess -- what would you say we are actually advancing spiritually?

Pusta Krsna: "With the present state of the world, in the present mess that it's in today, would you say that we are advancing spiritually?"

Prabhupada: No. Practically, the present state of the world means without any spiritual knowledge. We are blind; therefore it is very dangerous position. The spiritual knowledge we must have; otherwise we are doomed.

Indian man (5): Master, I wish to inquire. From the ancient Vedic scripture of the Vedas, we learn that God is and He cannot be seen. However, in the Bhagavad-gita we learn that Lord Krsna is born as a human. Now, does this not work conflict to the ancient scriptures of the Vedic religion?

Prabhupada: Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gita you will find that you have to understand Krsna in truth. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. If we simply see that Krsna is born or He has taken His birth as a human being, that is not sufficient study of Krsna. Therefore Krsna says His birth and activities are transcendental. Janma karma me divyam. So that you have to study, divyam yo janati tattvatah. Anyone who understands what is Krsna's birth... His birth and my birth is not the same. That means you have to study the subject matter very scientifically. Then you will understand that although Krsna comes as a human being, still, He maintains His position as God. That is real understanding. Unless you understand this fact, you will misunderstand Him. Therefore Krsna says as soon as you understand Krsna in truth, then you become liberated. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah. Simply superficial study will not help you. Then you have to study to become a serious student of Krsna consciousness and study Him. Then you will understand. Otherwise, superficially, we cannot understand.

Woman: Swamiji, would you say that the soul is locked in the third eye?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Pusta Krsna: The soul is what?

Harikesa: Locked in the third eye.

Pusta Krsna: Locked in the third eye. She's asking if the soul is locked in the third eye.

Prabhupada: Locked? What does it mean locked? Soul is not locked. Soul, for temporarily, is embodied according to the soul's desire. There are 8,400,000 forms of body, and as we are desiring, the material nature is supplying the body. It is explained in the Bhagavad-gita,

isvarah sarva-bhutanam
hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati
bhramayan sarva-bhutani
yantrarudhani mayaya
[Bg. 18.61]

Yantrarudhani. Yantra means machine. So Krsna is situated in everyone's heart. That is all-pervading. And He knows what the soul wants, so He is given the opportunity. As he wants to work, he is given a particular type of body, machine, yantra. Yantra means machine. And he is seated there, and in this way he is wandering in different species of life and different planets for different times. That is going on. Yantrarudhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. So if we stop this business, if we hear Krsna-sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66] -- then our life is successful. Otherwise we shall continue to change this yantra, one yantra to another, another, another. This is going on. So practically the soul is not locked up, but intentionally he wants some position. And Krsna is very kind. God is very kind. He is giving the opportunity: "All right, you want like this? Do it like that."

Indian man (5): Swamiji? Are we (indistinct) to believe in that by chanting the holy name of Krsna that we can attain a higher conscious level on this earth and attain self-realization without going through all the rigors of the old Vedas, scriptures?

Pusta Krsna: The question is, "Are you saying that simply by chanting the holy names, Hare Krsna, that you can do without all of the other instructions which are in the older Vedas?"

Prabhupada: Yes. This is the special concession for the conditioned soul of this age, that if you simply chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra, then your heart will be purified. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Then everything will be revealed. This is special concession. So you can see it. All these students coming, joining this movement all over the world, they are beginning, chanting Hare Krsna, and gradually they are becoming purified and taking this consciousness very seriously. You can see it.

Indian man (1): Om. Om. [break]

Indian man (6): ...explain the ways of papa-nirvanam.

Pusta Krsna: Papa-nirvanam.

Prabhupada: Papa. Yes. Papa. I understand. Papa... First of all, we have to know what is papa. Just like in ordinary way, in ignorance we commit something unlawful. Just like in this country it is said, "Keep to the left," and some other country it is said that "Keep to the right." Say, Americans, they "Keep to the right." Now, in this country, if instead of keeping to the left, if he keeps to the right, then he becomes punishable. So this is due to ignorance. So papa means in ignorance. So if you become in knowledge, there is no more papa. So if you understand what is God, what you are, what is your relationship with God, and if you act accordingly, there is no papa. This is papa-nirvana, no more papa. That is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah
punya-sravana-kirtanah
hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani
vidhunoti suhrt satam
[SB 1.2.17]

If you simply hear Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita, then gradually you become free from all sinful reaction of life. That is papa-nirvana. This is very simple thing. That's all.

Pusta Krsna: Would you like to take any more questions, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: One more.

Pusta Krsna: One more question.

Indian man (7): Swamiji, I got a disturbing mind. I would like to clear my mind. We understand that according to the Lord's creation, apart from this planet, there are many other planets which is called the universe. And as such, being created by the Lord, I'm sure He has given His right in a way of knowledge to understand Him. Now, if Krsna conscious, as we understand in this part of the world, then I am sure it should be in the other part of the world as well. So I don't know, Swamiji, what is the position, knowing that we are living in this part of the world, or this planet, what could be the other part of the planet which is called the universes. I was just reading today the Bhagavad-gita As It Is. I don't expect that I will be able to bring about this bit of the Gita that I read in a question form, because Lord... In the Gita itself it says that Arjuna presaged(?) to Lord Krsna in the Tenth Chapter, verse thirteen and fourteen, where He mentions that He is supreme, He is the ultimate, He is abode, place of residence of His, He is purified, eternal, primal God and so on, transcendental, original, and unborn. Now, Swamiji, I would like to know, being unborn, then how come that Lord Krsna was born as a human being or brought Himself to that position to form Himself as the Supreme Being? I would like this answer to be given. Thank you.

Prabhupada: If you have read Srimad-Bhagavatam, you can see that Krsna was not born. Krsna appeared before Devaki and Vasudeva as four-handed Narayana. Then the father, mother requested Narayana that "You have appeared as Narayana. Immediately Kamsa will kill You. Please, You become like human child." So He again immediately became a human child. So the conception of birth from the womb of the mother was not actually the fact about Krsna. You read Bhagavatam. You will find this description. So even though if He comes as a child, still He is unborn because Krsna, or God, is in everyone's heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. So from the heart, if He comes before you, so is it very difficult task for Him? It is not at all difficult. [break] What to speak of Krsna, we are part and parcel of Krsna; we do not take birth. You will find in the Bhagavad-gita, na jayate na mriyate va. When the description of soul is given there, it is said that the soul is never born. If the soul is never born, how the Supersoul is born? That you have to understand. Even the soul... We are ordinary soul. We are not..., also not born. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit: "At any time." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So we have to study this. We have to learn this. Superficially understanding will not help us. You have to become a serious student. That is wanted. And so far Krsna is speaking, He is speaking for all living entities. It is not that He is speaking for India or for the Hindus or for this planet or that planet. He is speaking for everyone. Sarva-yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah [Bg. 14.4]. Krsna says, "In all forms of life, all the living entities, I am..." Aham bija-pradah pita: "I am the supreme father." So Krsna does not speak for any particular section or any particular country or any particular religion. It is for everyone. And so far we are concerned, that is also described in the Bhagavad-gita:

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam
[Bg. 9.25]

Now, in this human form of life you can select where you will go next. If you want to go to the higher planetary system, so you can go there. Yanti deva-vrata devan. The higher planetary... Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha madhye tisthanti rajasah [Bg. 14.18]. You qualify yourself. So if you qualify yourself to go to the higher planetary system, you can go. Yanti deva-vrata devan. And if you qualify yourself to go back to home, back to Godhead, that also you can do. Mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam. So if you become a pure devotee, then you go to Krsna. That is up to you to make your selection. And this human form of body is meant for that purpose. If you don't utilize it for our next elevation, then you are committing suicide. That is our Krsna consciousness movement, to inform you. That's all. Thank you very much. Let us chant Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => City Hall Lecture -- Durban, October 7, 1975

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.