Prabhupada: This is a conversation
between Maharaja Pariksit and Sukadeva Gosvami. Maharaja Pariksit, five thousand
years ago he was the emperor of the whole world. Formerly, up to five thousand
years ago, the whole world was being controlled and ruled over by kings whose
capital was Hastinapura, New Delhi. There was only one flag, only one ruler, one
scripture, Vedic scripture, and the Aryans, Arya, they were the civilized
persons. You Europeans, Americans, you are also Aryans. Indo-European stock.
Maharaja Yayati, grandson of Maharaja Pariksit, he gave to his two sons the
portion of eastern Europe, Greek and Roman. That is the history, Mahabharata.
Mahabharata means great India. So there was no different religion. One religion,
Vedic religion. Vedic religion means to accept the Supreme Personality of
Godhead as the Supreme Person Absolute Truth. This is Vedic religion. Those who
have read Bhagavad-gita, it is said there in the Fifteenth Chapter, vedais ca
sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vedic knowledge means to understand God.
This is Vedic religion.
Later on, with the progress of Kali-yuga... Kali-yuga means the dark age or the sinful age or the age for argument, unnecessary talks and fight. This is called Kali-yuga. That is going on. Since the last five thousand years, the Kali-yuga has begun, and the beginning of Kali-yuga was cow-slaughtering. When Maharaja Pariksit was touring all over the world, he saw one black man was attempting to kill one cow. And Maharaja Pariksit saw this and immediately... The cow was trembling for being slaughtered. And Maharaja Pariksit saw, "Who is this man, trying to kill a cow in my kingdom?" So immediately he took his sword. That is ksatriya. Ksatriya means that... Ksat means injury, and trayate -- it is called ksatriya. There are persons who want to do harm to others. It has increased now. But during the time of Maharaja Pariksit's time, it was not allowed. The king is responsible. The government is responsible that any one of his subject, either animal or man, he is not disturbed, he feels secure of his property, of his person. And it is the duty of ksatriya to save him, to protect. This was the system of government. So that's a long story.
So Pariksit Maharaja was very pious. That was the system. A king, monarch is supposed to give protection everyone within the kingdom. It doesn't matter whether he is man or animal. Even trees. There was no law, unnecessarily cutting or killing, no. Actually, if you are reasonable, national... National means anyone who is born in that land. At the present moment the governments take care of the man only, not of the animals. What is this nationalism? What the animal has done that they should not be protected? So this is called Kali-yuga, the sinful age. Sinful age. That is increasing. That is increasing. But during Maharaja Pariksit's time, nobody could do anything injustice. Therefore it is said in the sastra that kamam vavarsa parjanyah [SB 1.10.4]. Because everything was right, the nature's way of giving us all comforts, all necessaries of life, that was also complete. As soon as you become injurious or harmful or disobedient to the laws of the king or God... King is supposed to be representative of God. Therefore, in India the king is accepted as the representative of God.
So formerly the kings were trained up in such a way that one man is sufficient to govern the whole universe, whole..., at least one planet. That was the system. The king was so pious. There are many statement, I mean to say, statements about these king. Why they were pious? Because they were also governed. The kings were governed by first-class brahmanas, sages. The brahmanas should not take part in the management of the government, but they would advise the ksatriya kings that "You rule over the citizens like this." If the king would not do that, the brahmanas had so much power -- there are many instances -- they will dethrone the king or kill him. But they will not occupy the power themselves. His son will be given the chance. This was the system.
So that Pariksit Maharaja was condemned to death within seven days. That is also very nice, interesting. Not interesting very much. It is very sorry plight, that Pariksit Maharaja was cursed by a brahmana boy to die within seven days, bitten by a snake. What was the incident? The incident was that Maharaja Pariksit was in the forest, hunting. Hunting is allowed only to the ksatriya kings. Because they were to rule over, and formerly the rogues and rascals by the order of king or king himself would kill him immediately. So they had to practice how to kill. And that practice was done by hunting some ferocious animal in the forest, not for eating. Nowadays hunting is going on for eating purpose. No, that is not the law. So Maharaja Pariksit was in the hunting excursion and he became very thirsty. So he entered one asrama of saintly person. He was at that time on meditation. So he entered, and he asked him, "Give me drinking water. I am very thirsty." He thought, "It is asrama." But the sage who was engaged in meditation could not hear him. So the king became little disgusted that "I am king. I am asking water, and this man is silent." So he became little enraged, and there was a dead snake. So he took that snake and coiled over his neck and went away.
So his one boy, he was ten, twelve years old. He was playing, and his friends told him that, "The king has insulted your father in this way." And the boy became very angry, "Oh, the king is so rude that he has insulted my father." He saw that a dead snake is over his neck. He immediately cursed Maharaja Pariksit that "You will die within seven days, bitten by a snake." So when he was crying very loudly and this, I mean to say, sound was going on, the saintly person, the sage, he got up. "What has happened, my dear boy, you are crying?" "No, no! The king has insulted you, so I have cursed him." Oh, he became very sorry that "You have cursed such a saintly king? Oh, you have brought defamation to the whole brahmana community. You have allowed Kali-yuga to come in. It is the Kali-yuga's conspiracy." Anyway he sent the news to the king that "My son foolishly has cursed you. This is... But what can I do? It is God's wish. It has been done. So you be prepared." Now, just see, even a boy born of a brahmana, how much he was powerful. If a ten years old, he could curse such a great king and he had to abide by that. This was the condition of ksatriya, brahmana, and vaisya and sudra.
Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. The human society, by the will of God there are four classes of men. The first-class is the brahmana; the second-class, the ksatriya; the third-class, the vaisyas; and all others, fourth-class, sudras. So at the present moment, practically there is no brahmana, no ksatriya, no vaisya, only sudras, fourth-class men. So you cannot expect any happiness guided by the fourth-class men. That is not possible. Therefore throughout the whole world there is chaotic condition. Nobody is happy. So this is essential that the human society must be divided into four divisions. The brahmana class means the first-class ideal men, so that by the seeing their character, their behavior, others will try to follow. Yad yad acarati sresthah [Bg. 3.21]. So this Krsna consciousness movement means we are trying to create some first-class men. This is Krsna consciousness, this movement. So therefore we have got these rules and regulation: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This is the preliminary qualification of a first-class man. So we are trying our bit to make some men ideal first-class men. But formerly it was there. Catur... Still there is.
You don't think that all men are of the same intelligence or same category. No. Still there is intelligent class of men. Just like those who are scientists or philosophers, religionists, they are supposed to be first-class men. But unfortunately, now nobody can recognize who is first-class and last class. So for proper management of the whole society the first-class, second-class, third-class men must be there. Just like in your body there are different parts of the body. The head, the arm, the belly, and the leg. This is natural. So without head, if we have simply the arms and belly and legs, it is a dead body. So unless you are guided, the human society, by the first-class men, the whole society is dead society. There must division according to catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma... [Bg. 4.13], not by birth, but by quality. So anyone can be trained up first class, second class, as he likes. That is called civilization. Some men should be trained up as first-class men, some men should be trained up as second-class men, and some men should be trained up as third-class men, and balance, who cannot be trained up, they can assist the other three higher class. That is called sudra. So... [break]
...that is not possible. A human being, if he is properly trained up, if he is willing to take the instruction he can be made first-class. Never mind. By birth one may be born in a low class, it doesn't matter. But by training, he can become first class. That is the injunction of the Bhagavad-gita.
mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyah sudrah tatha vaisya
te 'pi yanti param gatim
[Bg. 9.32]
Param gatim. Param gatim means to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our real home, the spiritual world. And live there eternally, blissfully, with full knowledge. That is our real position. So here we have come in this material world for material enjoyment. And the more we are making plan for material enjoyment, the more we are becoming entangled. That we do not know. They are thinking that material sense enjoyment is the aim of life. No, that is not the aim of life. That is the way to become more and more entangled. For sense enjoyment I have got this now body, Indian body, you have got this Australian or American or European body. But you have to change this body. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. We are eternal. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit. The soul does not take birth; neither it dies. We simply change body.
Tatha dehantara-praptih. Just like we are changing our body. In mother's womb we had a small body. It grows, and we come out. Again it grows. Grows... It is not actually growing, it is changing. The child is changing his body to baby, the baby is changing his body to boy, and the boy is changing his body to youthhood. Then... in this way you are changing body. That you have got experience. You had a child's body -- you remember. Or you had a boy's body -- you remember. But the body is no longer existing. But you are existing. Therefore the conclusion is that when this body will be no more fit for existing we shall have to accept another body. This is called tatha dehantara-praptih. So we have to change. That is nature's law. The soul is immortal. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. The soul is not finished, simply a particular type of body being finished, no. The people do not know it. And because they are simply engaged in sinful activities, their brain has become so dull that they cannot understand this simple truth that as you are changing body in this life therefore you will change this body to another life. This is very simple truth. But at the advancement of material civilization, we have become so dull and rascal that we cannot understand it.
But India still, although it is so fallen, you go to a remote village. A common man, he has no education. He believes. He believes. And here in the western countries, I saw many many big, big professors. They have no idea. I met one big professor, Kotovsky, in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Just see. He is a big professor and in charge of a very big department, Indology. He has no idea. But this is not the fact. The fact is that we are all sparks, spiritual spark, part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, we have come into this material world for sense enjoyment. In the spiritual world there is no sense enjoyment. There is sense purification. In the material world the senses are impure. They simply want to enjoy material things. So Krsna consciousness means that you have to purify your senses. That is the way.
sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena hrsikesa-
sevanam bhaktir ucyate
[Cc. Madhya 19.170]
This bhakti means that we have to clear ourself from the designations. What is that designation? Everyone is thinking "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am European," "I am Australian," "I am cat," "I am dog, "I am this, "I am that," -- bodily. We have to cleanse this bodily conception of life that "I am not this body." Aham brahmasmi: "I am spirit soul." This we have to realize. Then there will be no distinction that "Here is an American, here is an Australian, here is an Hindu, here is a Muslim, here is a tree, here..." No. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Panditah means learned, one who knows things as they are. For them...
vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
[Bg. 5.18]
A person, very learned, vidya and very gentle... vidya means, educated means, he is gentle, sober. He is not rogues and ruffian. That is vidya. That is the test of education. He must be very sober and silent. That is called gentleman, in one word. So vidya-vinaya, one gentleman, very learned scholar, vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi, and a cow, and hasti, an elephant, vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi hastini, and suni-suni means dog, and svapak... Svapak means a dog-eater. There are many persons, they prefer to eat different types of flesh. But one who eats the dog's flesh, he is considered to be very lower class. So suni caiva sva-pake ca panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. One who is pandita, learned, he sees every one, them, on the same level. What is that same level? Spirit soul. He does not see the outward body. That is called brahma-darsin. Panditah sama-darsinah. And if one becomes situated in that position,
brahma-bhutah prasannatm
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
[Bg. 18.54]
When one is self-realized that he is not this body, he is the spirit soul, brahma-bhutah, then what are the symptoms? Now, prasannatma: he becomes immediately very jolly. So long we are materially engrossed, bodily concept of life, there will be always anxiety. This is the test. Anyone who is in anxiety, means he is materially situated. And anyone who is elevated to the spiritual platform, he is prasannatma. He is jolly. What is the meaning of prasannatma? Na socati na kanksati. He does not want anything, and if anything he has got, if he has lost, he does not cry for it. That's all. Here in the material world we are hankering after something which we do not possess. And if we possess something, if it is lost, then we cry. Two business: Socana and akanksa. Everyone is trying to be very big man. That is called akanksa. And if he is lost of his possession, then he cries. So these two things will be finished if you become spiritually situated.
brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksat
samah sarvesu bhutesu...
[Bg. 18.54]
Unless one is spiritually realized, he cannot see equally everyone. Then samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param. Then one can become real devotee of the Lord, after surpassing the brahma-bhutah stage. So this bhakti line is not so easy. But by Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mercy we have installed the Deity here in your country. You are very fortunate that Caitanya Mahaprabhu has come to your country to teach you how you become free of all anxieties. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. Everyone is full of anxiety, but everyone can be freed from all the anxieties if he follows the path chalked out by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And what is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's instruction? Very simple.
harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
[Cc. Adi 17.21]
This is not Caitanya Mahaprabhu's personal version. This is in the scripture, Vedic scripture. Brhan-Naradiya-Purana. This instruction is there. As people are fallen in this age the method also has been offered very simple. They cannot follow any strong or severe austerities. It is not possible. They have been recommended simply to chant the holy name of God. That's all. Anyone can do. It is not difficult at all. Then if you say that "You are from India. Your Caitanya is Indian, and He is recommending Hare Krsna. Why shall I chant? I have got my own God." All right, if you have got your own God, then you chant His name. Caitanya Mahaprabhu doesn't say that you chant simply Krsna's name. If you have got any relationship with God and if you know His name and address, (laughter) then you chant His name. Unfortunately, you do not know who is God; neither you know His address, neither His activities. So take this Krsna. Here is a solid name. And we give you His address, His father's name, His mother's name, everything. So if you have got your own God's name, Caitanya Mahaprabhu said you can chant. Have you got any name, anyone, God's name? Nobody knows?
Devotee: Jehovah.
Prabhupada: Jehovah. All right you chant Jehovah. So that is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's recommendation, that if you think that this is God's name, you chant. Namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-saktih tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's instruction, that holy name of God is as good as God. We cannot see God. We can see, but not immediately. When we are advanced we can see God, talk with Him. But because we are not competent now, so if we know this is the name of God, let us chant it. That's all. Is it very difficult job? Anyone will say it is very difficult job? Chant the name of, holy name of God. Then what will happen? Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Your, if you chant the holy name of God, then your heart which is considered to be mirror... Just like you see your face on the mirror, similarly, you can see your position on the mirror of the heart, core of the heart. You can see. That is called meditation. So at the present moment our heart is covered with the dust of material conception. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," "I am that." This is all dust. You have to cleanse this. Just like on the mirror if there is a layer of dust you cleanse it. Then you see your real face.
So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, ceto-darpana-marjanam: "By chanting the holy name of the Lord, you will gradually cleanse the dust which is covering the core of your heart." Very simple thing. Go on chanting. And then what will be the position? Bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam: "This blazing fire of anxieties of material existence will be over immediately." Simply by this method, chanting. If you have got any name, if you have got objection to chant Hare Krsna, so whatever name of God you know, you chant. This is our movement. We don't say that you have to... But this is accepted by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. So if you have no objection, you can chant Hare Krsna. And if you think that "The Hare Krsna is imported from India. We shall not chant," all right, you chant your own God's name. Where is the objection? But chant the name of, holy name of God. That is our propaganda.
Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And as soon as you become cleansed of your heart, then the anxiety... Na socati na kanksati. You'll gradually increase. Then you will understand that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor cat, nor dog, but I am the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord." Then, if you understand that you are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, then you will understand your business. Just like in your body you have got so many parts and parcels. You have got the hands, you have got the legs, you have got the head, you have got the fingers, you have got the ear, you have got the nose -- so many parts. So what is the business of all these parts of your body? The business of parts of the body to maintain the body properly, to serve the body. Just like this finger is there. I am feeling some incomfort; immediately my finger comes and serves, automatically. Therefore the conclusion is that it is the business of the part and parcel of God to serve God. That is the only business. Natural business. So when you are engaged in the service of the Lord, because you understand -- by chanting the holy names Lord you will understand who is Lord and what is His advice, what does He want service from me -- then you will be engaged in that service. That is the perfection of your life. This is Krsna consciousness movement. Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam sreyah-kairava-candrika-
And as soon as you become cleansed of all dirty things, then your actual progress of life begins. Just like kairava-candrika, just like the moon, on the first day it is just like a line, then gradually increases; the body and the moonshine increases. Therefore this comparison is given. The more you become Krsna consciousm the shining of your life increases. Sreyah-kairava-candrika-
Just like these boys. They are coming from Europe, America. They are not Indians. But why they are sticking to this Krsna consciousness movement unless they are increasing their transcendental pleasure? They are not fools and rascals. They are educated. Why they have taken to this anandambudhi-vardhanam. It is increasing their transcendental pleasure. So anyone who takes to this process, he will increase his anandambudhi-vardhanam. Prati-padam purnamrtasvadanam. And he will be able to taste what is the meaning of life, what is the meaning of pleasure. Param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam: "All glories to the chanting of Hare Krsna mantra." So this is the process. Our Krsna consciousness movement is spreading this knowledge as far as possible, and by Krsna's grace we have got this temple in Melbourne, and it is all very creditful to our disciple, Sriman Madhudvisa Svami. And you take advantage of it. That is my only request. If you do not do anything, simply come and join chanting, you will gradually know very soon.
Atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Krsna, His name, His form, His activities, His qualities, we cannot understand with these blunt material senses. It is not possible. Atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih. "Then? We have got this only possession, indriyas. How we shall understand?" Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. If you engage your senses in the service of the Lord, svayam eva sphuraty adah, then Krsna will reveal to you that "Here I am." This is the process. Now this word is very significant. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. Jihva means tongue. If you simply engage your tongue in the service of the Lord, you will gradually develop. So how to engage the tongue? It is not said that "If you see, or if you touch, if you smell," no. "If you taste." So what is the business of the tongue? The business of the tongue -- that we can taste nice foodstuff and we can vibrate. Do these two jobs. Vibrate with your tongue Hare Krsna, and take as much as possible prasadam. (laughter) And you become a devotee. Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) [break]
Madhudvisa: Is it possible for a dog-eater to become a first-class man?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Engage this tongue for these two business. Chant Hare Krsna and take prasadam. He will forget dog-eating. (laughter) There is no exception. Everyone can become Krsna conscious if he follows, beginning, these two rules: chant Hare Krsna and take prasadam. That's all. Test it. Make a trial. The temple is here. We are inviting. Come here. Do these two business. And our Madhudvisa Maharaja is ready to give you prasadam and chance for dancing and singing. That's all. Where is the difficulty? You haven't got to pay for it. No loss. If there is any gain, why don't you try it?
Madhudvisa: Srila Prabhupada, why is it necessary for someone to come here and chant Hare Krsna and take prasadam?
Prabhupada: Just to... Because here is the center. Everything is being done properly. You will learn. Just like you have to go to school or college to learn. So just similarly, if you have to take the education of spiritual life, they will come here and see how people are doing, ideal. And you should be ideal. If you are not ideal, then it will be useless to open center. You behave nicely; they will come, they will see, and they will learn. If you go to some school and the professors are rascals then what you will learn? It is both, reciprocal. You shall act as professor, teachers. Your life should be ideal, and they will come and see, and they will learn.
Girl: Srila Prabhupada, if the kings were taught to govern the whole universe, does that mean all the worlds, all the worlds in the universe?
Madhudvisa: She's just wondering how it would be possible for one king to rule the whole world? It seems like it is very difficult. Nowadays we have so many leaders and they cannot manage...
Prabhupada: Forget that. Why you are thinking that you cannot rule over; therefore others cannot? You are thinking in your term. But there are. That is possible. So that is not our field of activities. It is others', politics and... But let us... Our business is how to improve our spiritual condition of life. Even if you don't rule over the world, it doesn't matter. So why you are anxious to rule over the world? It is not our business. You chant Hare Krsna and take prasadam. All right, chant Hare Krsna. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture -- Melbourne, May 19, 1975
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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