Everyone Is Mentally Diseased

"Everyone Is Mentally Diseased"

May 12, 1975

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Paramahamsa: I understood that you approach psychiatry, psychology, from the point of eastern philosophy.Prabhupada: So, what can I do for you?
Psychiatrist: I have no question.
Prabhupada: He has no question?
Paramahamsa: No.
Prabhupada: Then, what shall I say?
Paramahamsa: I don't know, Srila Prabhupada. He had told me that he has read your Bhagavad-gita. He has a copy. Do you have any questions about the Bhagavad-gita? Has he understood it?
Psychiatrist: I just wished to meet you.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Paramahamsa: He says he just wished to meet you. Perhaps I should read a verse. Should I read a verse?
Prabhupada: No. Our viewpoint is that in the material world, who has accepted this material body -- anyone, but we specially take the human society -- they require treatment, everyone. Everyone is mentally diseased, and therefore he is unhappy. Everyone. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who has no sense of God consciousness, he is diseased mentally. He requires treatment. The whole human society, especially at the present moment, they have given up God consciousness. They are not interested. That is their disease. And everyone requires treatment. So the whole Krsna consciousness movement is the mass treatment of the materialistic persons who are mentally diseased. That is our proposition. It is... In India there was a case. A man committed murder, and he pleaded in the court that... His pleader, his lawyer, pleaded that he was mad at that time. We also accept unless one becomes mad, one cannot commit murder or suicide. So the civil surgeon was brought to give evidence whether this man is actually mad. The civil surgeon said that "So far my experience is concerned -- I have treated so many persons -- in my opinion everyone is mad. So if on account of madness one should be excused from the law, then it is Your Honor's discretion, but so far I have studied, more or less, everyone is mad." Similarly, our study is that unless one is mad, he cannot remain in this material world. So everyone is mentally diseased, and they are concocting their ideas, different ideas. And they are overlapping, my idea, your idea overlapping. Therefore there is clash, unhappiness, violence, individually, socially, familywise, nationwise. This is going on. Therefore everyone requires a treatment, psychiatrist's treatment. And the best treatment is to induce a person to become Krsna conscious. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise, a person who is not Krsna conscious, or God conscious, he is basically a mad man and requires treatment. (pause) Ghostly haunted man... You have experienced ghostly haunted man?
Paramahamsa: In Woodsaw (?) there was a ghost. In St. Kilda the devotees used to think there was a ghost, but not a man who was called...
Prabhupada: There is ghost. And sometimes ghost attacks a man. Because he has no material body, he wants to act through other's body. So the man who is attacked, he forgets himself, and he speaks and walks according to the dictation of the ghost. That is called ghostly haunted man.
Srutakirti: What is the significance of... What is this?
Prabhupada: He talks nonsense. Suppose his father comes before him, he calls him by ill names, like that. He talks nonsense. So anyone who is too much materially affected, he also talks nonsense. Anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje. The treatment is bhakti-yoga. That we are teaching. Without any exception, we accept everyone a patient for psychiatric treatment. He has this book?
Paramahamsa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then all other books we can show him.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, does the soul, the ghost, enter into the other man's body? The soul is occupying one body, and the ghost, as another soul, does he enter that body? There's two souls in the one body?
Prabhupada: Not exactly enters, but he catches the body. But because the ghost has no gross body -- he has got his subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego -- you cannot see him, how he has attacked that body. You cannot see the body of mind, intelligence. You know I have got my mind; I know you have got your mind. But you do not see my mind; I do not see your mind. So ghost is within the subtle body: mind, intelligence, and ego. So with that subtle body, he attacks the man, but you cannot see. He does not enter into him. The enter is the soul within the body. Therefore sometimes ghost is walking in the room. We cannot see. But he takes away something. We see that the thing is going away. (laughter) Because you cannot see his gross body. And because he hasn't got gross body, he can move very swiftly. Now he is here; he can go ten miles away immediately. But there is ghost. And they attack specially woman.
Paramahamsa: Is that because the women are weaker?
Prabhupada: No. Woman is attractive for any man, even in ghostly life. The other day, who was telling that a big poet of India, he said that "God's most wonderful creation is woman's body"?
Srutakirti: I think Brahmananda Maharaja mentioned? Acyutananda.
Prabhupada: So, everyone is attracted with the woman's body. In your country I have seen the advertisement: "bottomless," "topless..." That is the material attraction. Everyone is in this material world on account of attachment. And similarly, for woman, the man's body is beautiful. So in this way both of them are attached to one another. That is the basic principle of material life. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham [SB 7.9.45]. They become attached. On account of sex life, they become more attached, and therefore both of them remain almost perpetually in this material world, and to satisfy different desires they transmigrate from one body to another. And on account of accepting this material body, there is always miserable condition. Therefore everyone requires the psychiatric treatment so that the mind may be transferred from matter to spirit soul. Then he will be cured. The disease is of the mind. Harav abhaktasy kuto mahad-guna mano-rathena. Everyone is riding on the chariot of mind. And the mind is taking him here and there, here... And the yoga practice is also treatment. This is also yoga, bhakti-yoga, and this ordinary hatha-yoga, that is also treatment of the mind. Treatment of mind means controlling the senses. Yoga indriya-samyamah. Mind is the leader of the senses. So if the treatment of the mind is done properly, then the senses work properly. The example is the madman. Because the madman's mind is not controlled, he is acting in a way -- people say, "Here is a madman." So everyone is more or less a madman in this material world, or, in other words, you can say anyone who is in the material world, he is a madman. He requires treatment. Just like anyone who is in the prison house, it is to be accepted that he is a criminal. Without any study, without any exception we can accept all the prisoners as criminals. [break] ...gradually appreciate. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This treatment is in the beginning just cleansing the mirror of the heart. That is the treatment. Just like a mirror, when it is overcast with dust, it requires cleansing. So the mental mirror is covered with material dust. So it has to be cleansed. That is the treatment. And when it is cleansed, you can see your real face in the mirror. Similarly, as soon as our heart disease, contaminated by the modes of material nature, is cleansed, you can understand what is your real position. That is the success of psychiatric treatment. One comes to know, "What I am." Aham brahmasmi: "I am spirit soul; I am not this body." That is called brahma-bhutah stage. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. He becomes immediately happy. And happiness means na socati na kanksati: "He does not lament, neither he desires." Our present disease is we hanker after things which we do not possess, and when that thing is lost, we lament. So hankering and lamenting. So when one is cleansed in the heart, he has no more hankering or desire. This is the symptom. And samah sarvesu bhutesu: "Then he becomes equal to everyone." Everyone means every living being, man and animal, trees, plants, lower or higher. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Then he enters into the sphere of devotional service. This is the symptom. Then he is perfectly in his original position. Then he is happy. Just like a diseased man. So long the disease is there, he is unhappy. And as soon as the disease is cured, he will be happy. So this material disease, as soon as it is cured, one becomes happy, because he is, by constitution, spiritual being. People have no knowledge even, his..., even about his spiritual identity. Therefore they are unhappy. So if you forget what you have written, then?
Paramahamsa: Do you remember what you wrote about, which part? About Krsna's birth?
Prabhupada: Krsna's birth? But in Bhagavad-gita there is no.
Paramahamsa: Maybe he means...
Indian boy: I've read that in (indistinct) and in other books in Hindi.
Paramahamsa: He said he read in some other...
Indian boy: I've been reading about Krsna.
Paramahamsa: He says he's read many books about Krsna in Hindi also. But maybe he means Chapter Four, verse six, where Krsna says He comes again in this world in His original form. Do you have any questions about Krsna?
Indian boy: Actually, I want to know how could I get more involved in, say, in religion, and... Want to become a truer devotee of Lord Krsna, you know, sacrifice myself really. How could I be one of pure devotee?
Paramahamsa: He wants to know how to become a pure devotee.
Prabhupada: You live with us and you will become pure devotee. They are pure devotees. You live with them and do whatever they are doing, their examples, and you will become pure devotee. Just like in a workshop, if you admit yourself without any knowledge, if you work with the workshop man, gradually you will learn how to work. It is not difficult. Formerly this was the custom in India, that when somebody sends his son to any workshop or any shopkeeper without any pay, so gradually he learns. And the master says, "Now I engage you with some pay." That is the way. Satam prasangat. By living with devotees, you'll learn devotion. So if you are serious, you are welcome. You can live with us and behave according to the other devotees. Then he's a...
Indian boy: Is it possible that I live on my own and still be a devotee?
Prabhupada: That will take long time. That, also, if you follow the regulative principles... It is difficult, little. But easier method is to live with the devotees because the situation and atmosphere in your home is different from devotion. So it is not very helpful. You have got other members in the family?
Indian boy: Yes, there is...
Prabhupada: So if you want to do something, they may not like it. So that is impediment. But if you live with the devotees, then you learn quickly the art. You are Indian?
Indian boy: Yes.
Prabhupada: Wherefrom you are coming?
Indian boy: I was born in New Delhi.
Prabhupada: Oh. How you came here?
Indian boy: Well, my parents moved to Fiji Islands, and I was with them. And then we all came to Australia.
Prabhupada: She is also Indian?
Indian boy: Yes.
Prabhupada: Wherefrom you are?
Indian girl: My parents were born in India and I was brought up in Fiji.
Prabhupada: Now they are in Fiji?
Indian girl: No.
Prabhupada: Where?
Indian girl: My mother's in Australia and my father's in Fiji.
Prabhupada: Oh. So where are your parents? Where they are, your parents?
Indian girl: They are separated.
Paramahamsa: She says they're separated. One lives in Sydney and one lives in Fiji.
Prabhupada: In Fiji there are many Indians.
Indian boy: Yes, there are.
Prabhupada: The language is in Hindi? Fiji?
Indian boy: Indians speak Hindi, Fijians they speak Fijian.
Prabhupada: Fijians they are Europeans? No.
Paramahamsa: No.
Prabhupada: They are natives.
Indian boy: Natives.
Prabhupada: They are civilized? No.
Indian boy: I suppose they are. (laughs) Many of them. Those who live a long time near Lautoka.
Paramahamsa: He says those who live in the cities, they are civilized. But others, they live in the villages, not very civilized. You have any other question?
Indian boy: No.
Prabhupada: They have questions? No. (pause) You have got desire to become a devotee?
Indian boy: Pardon?
Prabhupada: You have a desire to become devotee?
Indian boy: Yes, I have.
Prabhupada: So then where is your desire, fulfill it. What you are doing here?
Indian boy: Actually, I've got three friends from work in Sydney, and we started traveling around the country, and we ended up in Perth with no money. So we are here from last four months trying to get a job and save some money and go back to Sydney.
Prabhupada: So not getting job?
Indian boy: Jobs are very scarce in Perth. We've been trying very hard, but so far, it's no go.
Prabhupada: So here we have no arrangement. Huh?
Srutakirti: No. Here there's no arrangement. In Sydney or Melbourne there would be some facility.
Prabhupada: New Delhi you were born? How long you have come?
Indian boy: I was just nine months old when we left Delhi.
Prabhupada: So Australia, they are inviting people to come here for working, but how is that? They do not get job?
Paramahamsa: They are not in control. There is a jobless rate, unemployment. They call it unemployment. It goes out of control. Sometimes people lose their jobs, and they can't find a job. But the government is not able to control the economy very well. All over the world this happens. So sometimes people try to get a job and they can't get the job.
Prabhupada: There is enough jobs if the government arranges to engage them in growing food. But there is no such arrangement.
Paramahamsa: No. There is so much land in Australia.
Prabhupada: The government should have some arrangement for engaging... (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth

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Everyone Creating His Own Law

"Everyone Creating His Own Law"

March 1, 1975

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Prabhupada: That is the Vedic description. The religious principles cannot be manufactured by anyone within this universe. It is the codes or laws given by God. That is religion. That means we have to know who is God, what is His desire, and we have to abide by that. That is religion. Just like a good citizen means he knows the government and the government laws and he abides by it. Then he is good citizen. Otherwise he is criminal. If he does not abide by the laws of the state, he is criminal. Similarly, if one does not abide by the orders or the codes or the laws of God, he is Satan or demon. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. Therefore anyone who is disobedient to God, he cannot have any good qualification. And yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. And one who is devotee, abiding by the orders of God, he has got all the good qualification of God's. Therefore, the duty of the state, duty of the father, duty of the teacher, everyone, those who are guardians -- they should teach their subordinate how to become faithful to God. This one qualification will make him perfect. That is not being done. Everyone is godless mostly. And therefore there is problems, chaotic condition. Nobody is abiding by the supreme law. Everyone is creating his own law. That is the trouble. So our Krsna consciousness movement is meant for making the human society law-abiding citizen of the laws given by God. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Krsna, God, is giving, "You do like this." If we do like that... Or take even Bible. If we follow strictly, then we become happy. So, am I right or wrong? What is your opinion?Guest (1) (Indian gentleman): You are very right in saying this because we cannot solve any problem. The problems keep on multiplying. When we solve one problem, there are twenty ahead of us.
Prabhupada: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, annad bhavanti bhutani: [Bg. 3.14] "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. Krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava [Bg. 18.44]. This matter has been entrusted to the vaisyas. They should produce sufficient food and give protection to the cows for sufficient milk. Then the whole human society, animal society, will be happy. But we are disobeying the orders or the rules given by God. Instead of producing food, we are producing motorcars. And motor tires, motor parts. And so many other things. And therefore people are starving. The manual labor is being misused. We are disobeying the orders of God. Therefore we are unhappy. I have seen all over the world. There are enough space for producing food grains. And if we actually produce food grain, we can maintain ten times of the present population of the whole world. There is no question of scarcity because God has created everything complete. Purnam idam purnam adaya purnat purnam udacyate [Isopanisad, Invocation]. There cannot be any defect in the creation of God. We have created these defects on account of our disobeying the orders of God. God never said that "motorcar-ad bhavanti bhutani." He never says. But instead of producing food grains, we are producing so many unwanted things. People's energy is engaged for... Just like in America or in every country, so much energy and resources are engaged for preparing war materials. And that means there must be war. And you must be killed; I must be killed. You will kill me; I will kill you. That's all. Therefore God says, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. The human society should be divided into four classes of men: the most intelligent class, brahmana; the next intelligent class, ksatriya; then next intelligent class, vaisyas; and the fourth-class men, who cannot become brahmana, neither ksatriya, nor vaisya, they are called sudra. Sudra is meant for giving service to the others. Paricaryatmakam karyam sudra-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. So in this age, 99% people are engaged as sudra, working for others. No independence. Otherwise brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, they are independent. They are nobody's servant. But at the present moment, education means how to become expert servant. That means sudra. So we cannot expect any good things from sudra. That is not possible. Formerly there was monarchy, and the kings were called rajarsis, saintly king. Imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. These instruction are meant for the rajarsis, not for the sudras. So the rajarsis, they would take instruction from superior authority, brahmanas and Vaisnavas, and they will accordingly rule over. And the vaisyas would produce food grains sufficiently and milk sufficiently. People would eat very nicely, and they keep their health fit and save time for understanding his relationship with God. That is perfect civilization.
Guest (2) (American gentleman): Who is a sudra? Is it determined by jati?
Prabhupada: Yes, one who is seeking service like dog. The dog goes door to door and moves his tail: "Give me some food. Give me some..."
Guest (2): Is it determined by jati, by birth?
Prabhupada: No. His quality... He has no quality.
Guest (2): Spiritual type.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not spiritual type, it..., material type. He cannot maintain himself independently. Nowadays people are being educated highly, but if there is no service he has no value.
Guest (2): So the tamasi.
Prabhupada: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry -- he could not get any service -- in Allahabad. His name was Raghunatha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunatha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...
Guest (1): That is what is happening...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (1): ...at the present time in this country to 10% of the people. They don't have jobs. They are let out. They can't...
Prabhupada: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is sudra. One who cannot live independently, he is sudra. Paricaryatmakam karyam sudra-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. In this age, everyone is practically sudra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass sudras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the sudras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmena hina pasubhih samanah. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being -- that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided. So far other activities are concerned, they are the same as of human being and as of animal. But what is the distinction? The distinction is that in the human society there is an endeavor to understand God, and the animal society, there is no such endeavor. So when the so-called human society becomes devoid of God consciousness, it is animal society. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. So this Krsna consciousness movement is meant for raising the human society to the real platform of human society, not to keep them in the animal platform. Try to understand God and love Him. This is the substance of Krsna consciousness movement. So, yes?
Guest (3) (Trappist monk): There's three of us here that are monks from Connear(?), Trappist monks, and you use Hare Krsna as a way to God consciousness, while in our Christian tradition we use the name Jesus and we repeat it constantly and try to become conscious of him.
Prabhupada: Jesus, did he say... Jesus Christ, did he say that Jesus is the name of God?
Guest (3): Well, that's what Christians believe, yeah.
Prabhupada: No, is there anything mentioned in the Bible that Jesus is the name of God?
Guest (3): I'm not sure.
Guest (4) (Trappist monk): He didn't say it himself, did he?
Guest (3): Did he did what?
Guest (4): Did Jesus say that he is God? Jesus isn't the name of God. He said, "Son of God, son of man."
Guest (3): No, he said God. There's three places that Jesus said he's God, in Hebrews and John, and two places in...
Guest (5): "I and the father are one," is in John.
Guest (4): Oh, the father and the son is one. Of course it is one. So are we, because we are all children of God. God must be in us, otherwise we couldn't exist.
Guest (3): Of course.
Guest (4): I am not denying anything, but I'm saying that the meaning might be, that "God and Jesus is one," is in a similar way that I and God is one.
Prabhupada: That is fact. That is fact.
Guest (3): Well, again it depends upon the belief of each individual.
Prabhupada: No, Jesus is described as son of God. Do you deny that?
Guest (3): Definitely, he is definitely son of God just as you and I are. But at the same time, as Christians... Of course it's a matter of belief.
Prabhupada: That's all right. The son and the father, they are the same because son is born out of father. So how he can be different? In that sense it is one.
Guest (3): Yeah, I'm not denying the fact that God...
Prabhupada: No, no, try to understand. Just like here is a son, and here is a father. So there is no difference because the son is the expansion of the body of the father. So how the body and expansion of the body can be different? They are one. But still, in relationship, son is son, father is father. In relationship... Just like the mother is there, and her relationship with husband is different from her relationship with her son. In that sense, the son and the father, different, but in quality they are one because son is the expansion of the father's body. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. That is real understanding. So if the son sometimes says, "I am one with the father," there is no controversy because he is one in quality.
Guest (3): This tradition of the names was a tradition that was developed for two thousand years, beginning with the monks, and which most Christians are really not aware of, that through this japa a man can come to consciousness of God.
Prabhupada: Yes, when one comes to God consciousness. And the relationship is "God is great; we are subordinate." Just like the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained. Although the father and the son of the same quality, still, the relationship is the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained.
Guest (5): That's, of course, not the orthodox Christian interpretation, that's supposed to be. It's very clear by the time the decrees were worked out that Jesus is not a creature. He's incarnate God.
Guest (6): You say that we are creatures, and we are subordinate to God, and I can understand that. Christ was not created.
Prabhupada: Yes, none of us are created. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita...
Guest (6): Yes, I understand now. I spoke earlier with some people... In other words you say we are co-eternal with the father just as Christ is.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are all eternal. That is nityo nityanam. I have already explained. Nitya means eternal. There are two eternals: one chief eternal, God, and one subordinate eternals, they are plural number. God is one, and we are many. Father is one; the children are many. Similarly, both the father and the children are eternal. God is not created, and the childrens are not created. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, na jayate na mriyate va. All these living entity, they are never created; neither they ever die. Nityah sasvatam na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. They are eternal, ever existing. Even after the destruction of the body, they are not annihilated. So God is eternal. That I have already explained. And we living entities, we are also eternal. How the son can be otherwise? If the father is eternal, the son is also eternal. The son cannot be... Because son is the expansion, part and parcel of the father, so all the qualities of the father are there. The only quality difference is the father maintainer and the sons are maintained. That means the father has got unlimited resources to maintain the sons, and the sons, they have no resources. They are maintained by the father. This is perfect philosophy. Otherwise, if you are self-sufficient, then why you go to church and beg father, "Give us our daily bread"? That is... That means you are maintained. You are begging the father, "Please maintain us." So if the Supreme Being, who is maintaining millions of trillions of living entities, He is great, or the living entities who are maintained by God, they are great? Therefore God is great, and we are subordinate. This is natural conclusion. How you can go otherwise? If you are self-sufficient, why go to church and pray, "God, give us our daily bread"? Are you independent?
Guest (6): No. I am a creature.
Prabhupada: That is subordinate. Yes. Everyone is creature. He is the supreme creature.
Guest (6): I am servant of God. He is my life. Without Him, I can't live. I understand what you're saying, but I believe that our tradition from the Old Testament says that we were created by God.
Prabhupada: In one sense we are created, just like father creates the sons, not the sons create the father. In that sense we are created. (pause) So taking this word, that "sons were created," so the father existed before our creation. So He is not of the same quality again.
Guest (6): It's a mystery. We can only bow down before Him then.
Prabhupada: That is our business. (laughter) This word, "creation," is applicable in this material world. In the spiritual world there is no creation, the father and the son existing eternally. When we come to this material world... Material world means it has got beginning, and it has got end. And spiritual world means there is no beginning, no end. That is sanatana, eternal.
Guest (1): That is the point of a steady state theory of the universe also, that it... Arthur Hubble, I think, in Oxford. He talks about a steady state theory of the universe. But the whole idea is that the whole universe has always been there, and it will always be there. It might change in shape, like on the expressway in the morning. Any one morning you may look at it, blue car is here and the red car is there and another day the green car might be in the same place. So there might be transitory change, but he maintains that it has always been there. So I can see the point. There is a big controversy going on, and he might be very well right.
Svarupa Damodara: He's talking from a physical concept.
Guest (1): The big bang theory and the steady state theory of the universe. And they have come up with a cyclical theory of the universe also, that there is a big bang and the universe expands and then comes back again, like in Vedic philosophy, they have one mantra...
Prabhupada: Hm, brhattvad brhannatvad iti brahma.
Guest (1): So they are coming back to that kind of thing that we have not solved any questions. From the point of view of science things are changing all the time. It is very exciting. The Old Testament too and the New Testament, I don't remember everything.
Guest (3): ...can tie in with the idea of the spirit being eternal in Christ, and I believe Christ himself said that we have all been with him from the beginning.
Guest (1): And there is no beginning. According to the ideas, one group of science data, there is no beginning, and therefore there is no end.
Guest (5): It's the alpha and the omega then. Swami, do you see a difference or a conflict between being a devotee of Jesus and a devotee of Krsna? May one be both?
Prabhupada: A devotee means, real devotee means, he has no purpose for material gain. That is real devotee. Now we have to see what kind of devotee he is. There are two kinds of devotees: with purpose and without purpose. The "without purpose" devotee is pure devotee, and "with purpose" devotee, they are material devotee. That is distinguished in Bhagavad-gita,
arto artharthi jijnasur
jnani ca bharatarsabha
catur-vidha bhajante mam
(janah) sukrtinah arjuna
 [Bg. 7.16]
There are pious men and sinful men. Sinful men cannot become devotee. Pious men can become devotee.
yesam tv anta-gatam papam
jananam punya-karmanam
te dvandva-moha-nirmukta
bhajante mam drdha-vratah
 [Bg. 7.28]
These are the definitions. One who is completely free from all sinful activities, they can become pure devotee. So even after becoming free from sinful activities, if one has got some motive, then he is also not pure devotee. Pure devotee means without any material motive: "God is great. I am His subordinate. I must love God. I must render service to God." This is pure devotee. And if I go to God, "Please give me my bread," that is not pure devotee, because he has got some purpose. As soon as his purpose is fulfilled, he may turn nondevotee. Just like one of my German Godbrothers said that in Germany during the last war, Second World War, many women used to go to the church to pray to God to get back their husband, son, or brother. But nobody came back. And they became atheist: "There is no God. We prayed so much, and my father did not come, my brother did not come, my son did not come." So motivated devotion is sometimes frustrated, and they become atheist. Therefore the devotee who has no motive is pure devotee. "In any condition, it is my duty to love God and to serve Him, not for my benefit but God's satisfaction." That is pure devotee.
anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnanakarmady-anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
 [Brs. 1.1.11]
This is the definition of pure devotee. "If God satisfies me in my sense gratification, then I love God. Otherwise I have no connection with Him." That is not devotion; that is business. So business-type devotion is not devotion. It is devotion -- it may be accepted as a pious activity, not devotion. Devotion is transcendental to pious and impious activity. Just like Arjuna was thinking to fight with his cousin-brothers and kill them is impious. But when he understood, "Krsna wants this fight," he transcended the impious activity, and by the order of Krsna he killed his relative. Therefore this devotion is above the position of pious and impious activity. Therefore it is called transcendental.
Guest (4): I am not clear on what you're saying that for someone...
Prabhupada: It is clear. If you have got some motive and with motive you go to God, that is not pure devotion.
Guest (4): It is wrong to petition God?
Prabhupada: No, it is not wrong, but it is not pure devotion.
Guest (4): I see.
Prabhupada: Some way or other, if you go to God, that is very good. With motive or without motive, you have come to God, that is piety. That is better than to become impious. Impious men, they do not go to God. Just like nowadays nobody goes to church. Church are selling. Simply... Temples also. So now there are in India so many township development. They are constructing very fashionable houses, but no temples. Nobody is constructing temple. At the present moment everybody has become disinterested with anything religion and God. All over the world. That is degradation. Especially I am seeing in Bombay, that Juhu scheme, very nice houses are being manufactured. You have all seen. But nobody is constructing a temple. The modern economists, they say "nonproductive endeavor" -- means there is no income. Simply you have to spend money for maintaining the temple. So they are not interested in nonproductive things. So this is degradation of the human society. Either as Christian or Hindu or Mohammedan, nobody is interested. A few may be interested. (pause)
Balavanta: These are some psychologists, Srila Prabhupada, from the University of Georgia. This is Michael Green(?). He's a lawyer in Atlanta helping us.
Prabhupada: So your question was devotee and not devotee, no? You questioned?
Guest (4): I am a Christian, yes.
Prabhupada: No, no. Your question...
Guest (4): Oh, do I have a question? Yes, to my question, you answered it. Thank you.
Prabhupada: Oh, what is the question of Mr. Psychiatrist? Who is psychiatrist? You are? Come here.
Guest (7): No, I have just come to listen.
Prabhupada: Thank you. The other day in Caracas two or three psychiatrists came. His question was how to solve the problems. So our statement is that unless you treat the spiritual disease of the human society, then the problems will increase. It will be never be solved. The real disease is spiritual disease.
Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?
Prabhupada: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...
kaumara acaret prajno
dharman bhagavatan iha
durlabham manusam janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
 [SB 7.6.1]
This is statement of Prahlada Maharaja. He was a five-years-old boy and a devotee. So he was trying to preach amongst his classfellows. The classfellows said, "Why you are bothering about spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, now? We are young men. Let us play." He said, "No. The spiritual life should begin kaumara, just at the beginning of five years." Why? Durlabham manusam janma: "This human form of life is very rarely obtained, and we do not know when we shall die. So before our next death we must be spiritually equipped. That is the business of human life." There is no guarantee when death will come. A child may also die tomorrow. There is no guarantee. Therefore spiritual education should begin as soon as a child can understand something. Because there is no guarantee that he will remain for many years. There is no guarantee. So the business of human life is to revive our lost relationship with God. So if we miss, then I may get another body, not even human body. Then I miss the opportunity. There are 8,400,000 types of forms. Just like the trees, they are all... [break] ...human form of life. And that may take millions of years. So if we miss this opportunity of human life, to revive our relationship with God, and next life I become something else, then how much great loss it is, just try to understand. This human form of body is obtained after many, many millions of years' struggle. So this is also temporary, as the cats' and dogs' body, they are also temporary. But although it is temporary, it is arthadam. You can achieve the real purpose of life. That is the privilege of this human form of... Therefore as soon as possible, the spiritual education should begin, immediately. If the child simply can understand, "God is great," that is immense profit for him. [break] ...means from five years to twenty-five years, brahmacari, he has nothing to learn except God, brahmacari. Brahme carati iti brahmacari. He is simply interested in Brahman. That is called brahmacari. He has no material interest. That is the foundation of spiritual life. Brahmacari. And if he can, he remains brahmacari throughout the whole life. But if he is unable, then he is allowed to marry, grhastha. So according to Vedic civilization, any education should begin at childhood. Therefore even one is king's son, he was sent to Gurukula to remain as brahmacari to learn the basic principle of life. That is Vedic civilization.
Guest (7): Quite right.
Prabhupada: Nowadays small boys, they are learning how to smoke. When I was first in America, in Butler, so I saw small children, ten to twelve years or almost ten, nine. They were smoking. I was surprised because in India, at least, that is not allowed. I think there is law. If any boy smokes less than sixteen years old, he is punished, in India. What is that?
Guest (7): I am looking at him. He is ten years old.
Prabhupada: Oh, you can give him some book to see. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta

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Everybody Is Chanting

"Everybody Is Chanting"

August 30, 1973

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Prabhupada: No, we should generally know that we may take pleasure chanting Hare Krsna loudly. Others may not.Revatinandana: Right.
Prabhupada: That is generally. So when you go others' place, we may not chant loudly, simply chant in such a way you can hear. That's all.
Harry: Yeah, this'll do it. I mean, if you want to chant...
Prabhupada: You don't stop chanting.
Harry: No!
Prabhupada: But that: (softly:) Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama... I am hearing. That's all.
Revatinandana: Yes.
Prabhupada: Not that you have to advertise yourself, you are chanting, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Hare Krsna...
Harry: Because, you see, this is the thing. People say, "Oh, you know..." Because you know that they call me. You know what they say, don't you? Hare Krsna on this side, and Harry Edwards on the other side.
Revatinandana: Oh, Harry on this side and Hare Krsna on the other.
Harry: Hare Krsna on this side, and Harry Edwards on the other side, that's me. (laughter)
Syamasundara: He lives across the road, you see.
Harry: I live across the road.
Syamasundara: So it's Hare Krsna on this side and Harry Edwards on that side.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Syamasundara: His name is Harry Edwards.
Prabhupada: Oh, I see.
Harry: My name is Harry Edwards.
Syamasundara: So the people who are...
Prabhupada: A good name.
Harry: Yes.
Prabhupada: By chanting your name... (laughter)
Harry: Oh, there you are, there you are, yes. This is it. They are chanting my name, you know. Yeah. 'Cause when I ring up the station.
Prabhupada: So when somebody's disturbed, he can say, "I'm calling Mr. Harry."(laughter).
Harry: You see, when I ring up the station in the morning, you see, say, "Ah, Hare Krsna." I say: "Hare Krsna to you." (laughter) So I mean some way or other, you're doing what you're asking to do, aren't you? Psychologically.
Syamasundara: Everyone's being forced to chant Hare Krsna.
Harry: Yeah... But I think these, you know, and I know, of course, you know, I've...
Prabhupada: The people chant Hare Krsna by seeing us. Yes. All over the world.
Harry: Yes. They say to me, Harry Edwards, you see, or Hare...
Syamasundara: Yes.
Harry: So therefore, really and truly, if you look at it psychologically, you've achieved your object without them knowing.
Prabhupada: (chuckles) Yes. Yes.
Harry: Is that right?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Revatinandana: Yes, this is why we dress this way. Every time we go on the street, everybody on the street says, "There's one of the Hare Krsna people." He says "Hare Krsna" one time.
Harry: That's. Really. Yeah, yeah. But do you think...? I suppose... Well, it's like everything else. I suppose they would get used to it. Oh, I don't know. They say, if there's a problem... As far as we are concerned, as far as the police are concerned, we can find nothing wrong. You have done nothing wrong, nothing wrong. I mean, I don't know what you got, supposed to do, I don't know what you're supposed to do wrong anyway, but... But that's it, as far as we are concerned...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harry: We do have this liaison. You know, I must keep in liaison with you. So if I come over here, gentlemen, you must realize I am not here, I am not here for the purpose of, say, spying, if you may think this. I don't suppose you do?
Syamasundara: You're welcome at any time.
Harry: But this is the purpose, anyway... I don't know if I've got to, stay overstayed my welcome...
Syamasundara: We feel very good when we see you here. We feel very pleased to see you on the grounds.
Harry: Yes, oh, yes, yes. But don't forget, gentlemen, as I say, I, you must realize that I still have a job to do and if there was something in which you think I should report upon...
Prabhupada: Mr. Ha... (opening letter), you can read this letter, that so many people, they offered their place for our temple. Just now we have received this letter. One body is offering his...

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London

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Entering the Family of Krishna

"Entering the Family of Krishna"

March 30, 1975

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Hamsaduta: So you can begin.Girl: (Speaking in German)
Hamsaduta: She makes a suggestion that we should do two things: one, to ask questions about Mayapur as a significant holy place, not only for the devotees, but for the people, karmis, who have never even heard of Mayapur... (German)
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: And she says the second aspect of her questioning will be the practical side of it, like feeding the people here, like feeding the people here, what we are actually doing, like building this house, feeding the people in the neighboring towns, or teaching them English or teaching them how to cultivate the land, like that.
Prabhupada: Our... You take answer one after another.
Hamsaduta: Yes...
Prabhupada: Not put all the questions.
Hamsaduta: So you can begin.
Prabhupada: Our ideal is that we have got this body, and there are some bodily necessities. That is the prime necessities. So we do not neglect these necessities of the body. But our culture is spiritual culture. Generally, people, being disturbed by the bodily necessities, they do not inquire about the spiritual identity. Actually this is the distinction between human life and animal life. (Hindi) [break] Our real purpose of this mission is to educate people about his spiritual identity. All people, they are misguided by the idea-(aside:) Don't do -- that he is this body, everyone, all over the world, especially in the Western countries.
Girl: Why?
Prabhupada: Because rascal fools, they have no knowledge, just like cats and dogs, animals. Do you admit this?
Hamsaduta: (German)
Prabhupada: Everybody's thinking that "I am this body." That is rascaldom. They have not even this primary knowledge of spiritual identity that he is not this body, although he has got very practical experience that a child is getting another body as a boy, the boy is getting another body as young man. Suppose I am... I know I had a body of a child. I still remember, when I was a child, six months old. I remember how I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister. She was knitting, and I was seeing. Very vividly I remember. Now, where is that body? Tell me. Where is that body? Now sometimes I think that "I was jumping as a boy. And now I have to take this stick." So where is that, my jumping body? Tell me.
Girl: The body is...
Prabhupada: That body is no longer existing.
Girl: Yes.
Prabhupada: Is it not a fact?
Girl: I must change my body.
Prabhupada: Change. So the body has changed. But I remember that I had such a body. Therefore I am different from the body. I wish to possess again that body, to jump, but I cannot. This is the condition of my life. By nature's law I am getting one body and I am changing to another body. This is going on. So as in this life I have got this experience, that I have changed my body, similarly, the greatest authority, Krsna, says that "When this body will be finished, you'll get another body," very simple thing. But these rascals do not understand. All these rascals, they do not understand. There is practical experience, and there is authoritative statement, and still, they do not know, and still, they are big, big professors, big, big learned scholars, doctor, scientist, philosophers. What is this?
Girl: No knowledge.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Girl: No knowledge
Prabhupada: What is that?
Hamsaduta: No knowledge.
Girl: No knowledge.
Prabhupada: That is... That is the... That means everyone is in ignorance, and they are passing on as doctors, philosophers, scientists. This is the condition of the present civilization. Fools and rascals are passing on as doctor of philosophy, doctor of knowledge. First of all, you have to judge this.
Girl: But there are many gurus...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Girl: They think... What is...?
Hamsaduta: (German)
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says there are many gurus and many people go there because it has become popular. So what do they say?
Prabhupada: I do not bring in any guru. We are talking between ourselves. Don't bring any guru. Just talk as common men. So whether you agree to this point?
Hamsaduta: Understand?
Girl: Yes.
Prabhupada: There is no question of guru. It is a question of common sense.
Hamsaduta: (German)
Girl: (German)
Prabhupada: It is very simple thing, that "I am changing my body, and similarly, I'll change this body." This should be understood by my present circumstances of life, and it is confirmed by the greatest authority, Krsna. Knowledge by authority and knowledge by experience, both things are there. And still, the rascals do not understand. Knowledge is gathered by experience, and knowledge is gathered from the authority. Just like I ask my father, "What is this?" Father says, "This is bell." So this is knowledge. I get it from my father. And by experience, when I push it, it is ringing. So understand, "This is bell." So two sources of knowledge: by practical experience and by authority.
Girl: I must believe what my father says.
Prabhupada: Yes. That I have to. I have to take knowledge from my mother, from my father. That is the beginning of knowledge. Intelligent boy asks father, "What is this?" And father explains. Mother gives the knowledge, "Here is your father." So it is from authority. Otherwise, how you can experience who is your father? How do you get? Can you experiment who is your father?
Girl: Yes. I ask my mother.
Prabhupada: That's it. That is authority. That is not experiment. That is authority. Therefore knowledge by authority and knowledge by experience... So I am changing my body. You experience "I was child, I was boy, I was young man. I was middle-aged. Now I am old man." This is experience. And the authority says, "As you have changed this body, similarly, you change this body and get another body." This is authority. Then where is the lack of knowledge? So knowledge is already there in two ways: by experience and by authority.
Girl: This life means that I must take a better body in this life.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Hamsaduta: What is the question?
Girl: No, not a question.
Prabhupada: First of all, we have to understand that we... There are many sources of knowledge, but the summary is that knowledge gathered by experience and knowledge gathered by, through authority. So both knowledge is helping me about the change of body. So how can you deny it? And still, if you remain ignorant, then you are foolish. How you can say there is no life after death? I am giving you evidence by experience and by authority. Then mostly, perhaps you have got experience of the... In the, especially in the Western countries... Here, if you ask ordinary cultivator, he'll believe: "Yes, there is life." They they are philosopher. "Yes, in my past life I did something wrong. Therefore I am suffering. And if I do wrong, I'll suffer in my next life." You'll get this knowledge even from the cultivator. This is India.
Girl: India has the knowledge.
Prabhupada: Yes. Anyone who is born in India, he has got immediately this knowledge. He immediately knows there is God. That is the advantage of taking birth in India. What it will take hundreds of years to understand, they understand it by the birth. You have seen, so many thousands of people came. So the... Apart from this, the whole world, they do not believe that there is soul and after annihilation of this body, we shall get another body, another chapter of life. They do not believe it.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: Then, she says, why do the philosophers not study in India?
Prabhupada: Hm? Then again, the same question. Because they are rascals.
Hamsaduta: (German)
Prabhupada: Because they are rascals, they are speculating. They do not understand how knowledge is gathered. This is our charge. You refute it.
Hamsaduta: (German)
Guest (2) (Indian man): Just one sentence, Prabhupada. Another thing is they know they are taking body again and again. They are taking the body again and again after birth. Why they are committing again and again sins and which mode of nature...?
Prabhupada: Because they do not know how to stop this process. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. You can stop this. But these... Again rascals. They'll not take the method. Krsna said that "If you simply try to understand Me," janma, "why I appear and why I come here and work," karma..., "they are divine." The divine nature of Krsna's appearance, disappearance and activities, if one can understand, then immediately he becomes free from this process. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. But the rascals will not do that. They'll misunderstand Krsna. They'll misdescribe Krsna. They'll think, "Krsna is ordinary man." Gandhi will say that "I don't think there was any person living as Krsna." And he is mahatma. These things are going on. Mahatma is proving himself as the greatest rascal. This is your mahatma, and what to speak of the duratma. So you are being guided by these...
Guest (2): A lot of people in... Before I came to your temple in Toronto, in our family nobody is eating any meat. When I went West, I got it some, this point, and I was misguided by the different philosophies. So lot of misguiding and misled...
Prabhupada: That is my rascaldom. Why I shall be misguided? I must know who is the right person.
Guest (2): They are fallen from. A lot of people in India, they have all misguided and misleading, their own adjusted, their own...
Prabhupada: I have to gather knowledge from my superior. (Bengali) You came last night?
Guest (2): Ah, no, last evening.
Prabhupada: Oh, last evening? What is your...?
Guest (2): He told to come at nine o'clock.
Prabhupada: Ah, yes. What do you want to say?
Guest (2): I like, I like to join in the special (indistinct).
Prabhupada: That's all right. You are welcome. You stay here with the devotees and learn.
Guest (2): I stayed in Madras for a month also.
Prabhupada: So you are staying here now?
Guest (2): I'd like to take...
Prabhupada: Yes, stay. Make arrangement that he can stay. That's all.
Hamsaduta: You can stay. You can stay with us and...
Prabhupada: As other devotees are staying, you can stay.
Guest (2): But, er...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (2): Aksayananda (?) Swami told me to come to Madras.
Prabhupada: So go to Madras. Whatever you like. That's all.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says, "Therefore does it mean that the solution has to come from India?"
Prabhupada: Yes. Solution has to come from Krsna. The book is there, solution, Bhagavad-gita. If you take it and practice it, the solution of all problems is there.
Girl: (German)
Prabhupada: So you take any problem and find out the solution from Bhagavad-gita.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says in the beginning it appears a little difficult to give up everything, but day by day, it becomes...
Prabhupada: Where is the question of everything, giving up? It is to understand. First of all understand that what you are.
Hamsaduta: (to girl) Understand?
Prabhupada: First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are something beyond this body.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says we do not require as much as we like to believe we do. We do not require the things that we believe we require.
Prabhupada: What is the meaning of this?
Hamsaduta: (German)
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: It means, it means apartment, furniture, money, family, and so many things. She says... She means that we don't require all these things.
Prabhupada: I don't say that. I have never said that.
Hamsaduta: (German)
Prabhupada: But only for furniture and apartment, if you forget yourself and act in such a way, then next life you become a dog and lie on the street, then what is the use of your furniture? You are getting next life. First of all, you understand that, that "This is not the end of my life. I am eternal. I am changing my body." So it is described as dress. Now you may be dressed like a royal king. And next dress may be different. "May be" means it must be. And for the examples of the dresses -- so many living entities. So you must be cautious that "What kind of dress I am going to have next?" [break] Where is that science? Where is that school, college? If you remain only confident that "I'll go on with this dress perpetually," that is not the fact. You'll have to change your dress. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. But we have no knowledge that "What kind of dress I am going to have?" It is a fact. I have already changed dress. I had a child dress. I had a boy's dress. I had a young man dress. Now I have got old man's dress. Now, Krsna says that, "This also, you'll have to change." So why I am not inquiring "What kind of dress I am going to have?" and "How I am changing this dress?" So young man doesn't want to become old man. That is a fact. But if a young man says, "No, no, I don't want old man's dress," will it be accepted? Nature will say, "No, you must accept." Where is the remedy for this? Why these rascals do not understand that "I am fully under the control of nature's law, and I am declaring free. I am becoming philosopher"? He's fully under the control of nature's law. You have read Bhagavad-gita. It is said, prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. You are fully under the control of the laws of nature, and still you are thinking "I am independent. There is no superior controller." What is this nonsense? Hm? What is the answer?
Hamsaduta: (German)
Prabhupada: Is it not foolish? You appreciate that you are under the control of material nature, and still, you are thinking independent. What is this nonsense?
Girl: Yes.
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: Hm? I am in the prison house, and the prison superintendent is controlling me fully, and if I say, "I don't care for anyone," what is this nonsense? Even in ordinary life, if somebody says, "I don't care for government laws. I shall do whatever I like," is it very good sense? Similarly, you are fully under the control of material nature, and you are declaring independence. You should, rather, consider that "Why I have been put under the control of material nature? I don't want it. I don't want to be diseased. But why disease is forced upon me? I don't want to become old man. Why it is forced upon me? I don't want to die. Why death is forced upon me?" These should be the proper questions. But instead of questioning this, he's thinking, "I am independent." How much foolish he is.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: So, she says, so the solution for the world is Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: Hm? Yes. Therefore we are pushing on this movement, to make the rascals intelligent. That's all. The whole world is full of rascals, and we want to make them intelligent. This is our Krsna consciousness movement.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: Ja.
Girl: (German)
Prabhupada: When we call them rascals, they become angry. And actually they are rascals. They do not know the problems of life.
Hamsaduta: So she... Her next question is that in the last few days, approximately five hundred devotees have assembled here from all over the world. She says that she knows that this is the birthplace of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So therefore they have come. She knows that it is a holy place. She wants to know that even before Lord Caitanya's time, was it also considered to be a holy place?
Prabhupada: Yes. It is perpetually holy place, but it is known since the birthday of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Hamsaduta: (German)
Prabhupada: (aside:) Just wait one... [break] ...the cat's and dog's body. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand that, that life is beyond this body. But in the human form of life one can understand. He has got such consciousness. So by nature's law, by evolution, we come to the human form of body to understand this. And if we do not utilize this knowledge for understanding our real identity, then we remain cats and dogs, and we become again cats and dogs. By nature's law, I have been given this chance. If I do not utilize it properly, then again I become what I was before.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: One has to be sincere. One has to be sincere to understand this?
Prabhupada: It is not the question of sincerity; it is the question of ignorance. If, if the father, mother, teacher, government does not know that how the people should be raised, then they remain in ignorance. Just like a... If the child... Child is ignorant, but if he's not given the education...
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says now in this movement a new generation is being raised up, the children that we have in our schools and in our movement.
Prabhupada: There... Therefore we are educating children even.
Girl: For the future
Prabhupada: Yes, future generation. Because the so-called educational institutions, they have produced only fools and rascals.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says you cannot change the society? We want to produce a new society?
Prabhupada: No new society. A new status of consciousness. We don't want to change anything. We want to change the consciousness because they are in ignorance.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says it is a great service or a help for the world.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says she has noticed here that if a new person comes to Krsna consciousness, he can understand what he can actually do. For example, she was very impressed by the dance troupe last night, and on the night before, the devotees. She's realized that they are dancing. She did not realize before that one can do just about anything for Krsna. And she says this place immediately gives that impression, that anyone, in any station, he can be engaged.
Prabhupada: Yes. You are very intelligent.
Girl: Oh. (Laughs)
Prabhupada: We can engage anyone to Krsna consciousness. It does not depend on particular education, status of life. It doesn't matter. Ahaituki. The exact Sanskrit word is ahaituky apratihata. Ahaituki means without any cause and without being checked. If anyone wants to be Krsna conscious, there is no impediment in the whole world which can check him.
Hamsaduta: (German)
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: Yes. She says if a person wants to give the best of himself, it is probably best to give that which he has learned throughout his life, to do it for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says, now, to your books, that, er... I can answer this question for her later, if she wants to know. How many books are already finished, and how much is more to come in the future?
Prabhupada: In fu... There is no limit. But I wish to write at least sixty books.
Girl: (German) More?
Prabhupada: Yes. We have already finished...
Hamsaduta: Four cantos.
Prabhupada: Four cantos. And there are eight cantos more.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says that... She says she wants to know if you think it would be worthwhile for her to write a book, something similar to the one that was written in America. It was called "The Strange World of the Hare Krishna People." You've heard of it?
Prabhupada: Hm. Hm.
Hamsaduta: But she says serious, not in the way it was written by her, because she is a journalist, and this is her natural inclination, and she has been here now since the beginning, and she is noting everything. So it is her natural tendency. Whether you think it is worthwhile for her to write a little book for the public?
Prabhupada: It is... It will be great service, provided you write nicely the right things.
Hamsaduta: (German)
Girl: To help you?
Prabhupada: Yes. People are in ignorance, ninety-nine percent.
Girl: (German)
Prabhupada: Yes. Entire, whole world. They are going on. They are fighting on this bodily concept of life. So, apart from fighting... Of course, you cannot stop fighting. But at least a section of men must be in right knowledge. So what I say, that in the Western countries, they, even the very high, topmost educationists, they also do not believe that there is life after death, is it not? Am I right or not?
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She understands.
Prabhupada: So just see how much ignorance is prevailing. So if you can dissipate this ignorance, darkness...
Girl: (German)
Prabhupada: Eh?
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: So that... She says, yes, if one thinks in this way, then life has no sense, that there's no sense to it, if one does not believe in a life beyond this life. It is senseless.
Girl: (German) Then it's no life, no life after death.
Hamsaduta: She says therefore, therefore they feel anything can be done in this life because in next life there is nothing.
Prabhupada: Nothing. That I talked with big professors. They say. They say like that. Here also, the so-called Indian leaders, they are also thinking like that.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says she has heard that in the universities in America it is being taught about Krsna consciousness. In some of the universities Krsna consciousness is being taught.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Girl: It's a beginning.
Prabhupada: Hm. Just like Temple University, they have got this Nectar of Devotion. And many universities, they are studying Krsna book, Bhagavatam. They are gradually accepting. At least the professors, teaching staff, they are accepting. They are studying as one side of views, not seriously.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: They speculate still.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says it appears that one has to become again as a child.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hamsaduta: She means... She says that it appears to understand this teaching one has to become again as a child.
Prabhupada: Yes. If he does not forget what he has learned, then it will be difficult.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says... She asks whether it will come to a fight with the demons and the devotees like Arjuna, or is this question, in the future, she means, or is this question not important?
Prabhupada: The fight is already going on. You cannot stop fighting.
Girl: (German) We must chant Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Girl: We must chant Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the simplest way. That is the simplest way. If one sincerely chants Hare Krsna, he becomes enlightened.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: She says this is the main thing that Lord Caitanya has given the people in this age, a simple process to approach God.
Prabhupada: Yes, the highest perfection, to reach the highest perfection, that is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's special gift.
Girl: (German)
Hamsaduta: As a conclusive question, she asks what can we do to help the, (German), the whole movement to continue to expand?
Prabhupada: What help?
Hamsaduta: What, what she can do.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Your, these Western countrymen, they are intelligent. So intelligently enlighten them. By intelligent statements, make a peaceful revolution.
Hamsaduta: Right. Yeah. O.K.?
Prabhupada: As these boys are changing their habits and their ideas, so similarly, it can be done to the mass of people.
Hamsaduta: Is that all right?
Girl: Ja.
Prabhupada: Jaya. (aside:) Stop that also. [break] ...krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah, yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. This grhastha life is a concession for sex life. Otherwise, there is no need of grhastha life. But everything can be used to make the best use of a bad bargain. That is another thing. Actually, to become free from all responsibility and anxieties, if one remains a brahmacari, that is very good. That is the recommendation of sastra. But if you cannot... Because the material world is going on under sex impulse, by nature the sex impulse is there. He will agitate you. But if you can control by becoming a rigid brahmacari, that is better. But it is difficult. Therefore this concession is given. But what is this concession? The concession is sex life. That's all. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi sukham hi tuccham kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham. It is an itching sensation. And after satisfying the itching sensation, there are so many responsibilities and trouble. But trpyanti neha krpanah. Those who are krpanah, does not know how to utilize this life... So once I have taken to sex life and I am suffering so many after... Of course, now to stop the suffering, the have invented this contraceptive method. He knows there is suffering, but they, in order to avoid this suffering, they're taking this contraceptive method. And that is also suffering. That he does not know. Bhrun hatya. Contraceptive method means killing the embryo. So that is also another sinful. He's taking so much responsibilities. So either you take contraceptive method or do not take contraceptive method... If you do not take, then the child is born. Then you have to take responsibility. Now they're killing the child, in this way becoming implicated. But if one is trained up to remain a rigid brahmacari, there is no trouble. Therefore it is said,
trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah
kandutivan manasi yah visayeta dhirah
 [SB 7.9.45]
I know if I satisfy this itching sensation, I'll be put into so much trouble after it, so if one is dhira, little sober, he'll better suffer this itching sensation than to take the responsibility. This is the sastric injunction.
Guest (2): Srila Prabhupada, this (indistinct) In the world I have come to know mostly, I have never seen any, except the word is a true couple. They are married means sex life...
Prabhupada: Hm?
Guest (2): Except devotees, which after contacting, I haven't seen any (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes, the whole world is going on. Married life means legalized prostitution. That is their philosophy. So therefore they are, in the Western world, they do not like to marry. And this is also prostitution; that is also prostitution. So let us go on with our illegal prostitution. Why legal prostitution? This is the philosophy. And that is the Freud philosophy. Is it not?
Hamsaduta: Yeah.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Guest (2): Even Indians, the same. I...
Prabhupada: The Indians, European, doesn't matter. The whole human society is like that.
Hamsaduta: His idea is why should we make this sex life so cumbersome by marriage?
Prabhupada: Yes. Avoid it.
Hamsaduta: It's a natural thing just to have sex.
Guest (2): You are following your principles, the four principles...
Prabhupada: Avoid it. They are regularly advertising. I have seen in Dallas, "topless, bottomless," like that.
Hamsaduta: Everywhere.
Prabhupada: They do not know. What can be done. Mudho 'yam nabhijanati [Bg. 7.25]. They do not know that behind everything there is a supreme power. He'll punish. "Never mind, we shall be punished." You'll become dog. "Oh what is the wrong if I become a dog?" They say like that, "What is the wrong?" He thinks that "I'll get good facilities for sex. There will be no need of apartment. I'll save the rent. To become a dog and have sex life on the street, it is good facility." This is going on.
Guest (2): I have some few questions which I have come here to ask. Permit me to ask, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: What is that question? Who can answer.
Guest (2): I came in your temple first time in 1970 in Toronto. And, that time, I was just like other Indians, what I think, but I... (end)

 

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Enlightenment Or Imprisonment

"Enlightenment Or Imprisonment"

September 10, 1973

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Prabhupada: And these so-called scientists will reply: "Yes, we are trying. In future..." In future, everyone can expect future. But the hearsay is that: "Trust no future, however pleasant." Why future? In past we could not do. At present we cannot not do. What is the guarantee that in future we'll be able to do? There is no history that anyone has produced life from chemicals. What do your, what do you think, that life is a product of chemicals? Do you mean to say?Dr. Hauser: That is what I've been taught. Yes. About the evolution of the earth. And...
Prabhupada: Therefore, if...
Dr. Hauser: ...all the different stages of life.
Prabhupada: Do you think that's a fact...
Dr. Hauser: It's not a fact. I don't know whether it's a fact. I... But that's...
Prabhupada: Then that means illusioned. You are not confident, but you accept that theory. This is illusion.
Dr. Hauser: But... Yes. But...
Prabhupada: But you should apply your reason, from practical life, whether life is produced from matter, or matter is produced from life. Our proposition is: matter is produced from life, not life is produced from matter. In the Vedanta-sutra it is said: janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Absolute Truth is that from whom or from which everything emanates. Now that Absolute Truth, whether he's life or dead stone. So that is discussed: janmady asya yato 'nvayad itaratas carthesv abhijnah [SB 1.1.1]. That Absolute Truth must be cognizant. So as soon as you say cognizant, then He's alive. Abhijnah. That, that means if I say: "I have produced all these things that is within the room," then means I must have brain. I must be experienced how to do it. How I can be dead, matter? Has the matter has got such thing? The origin of creation must be a living being.
Dr. Hauser: But somewhere... If I can... But in this, there is also the creation of life, when...
Prabhupada: Where is that evidence, creation of life from matter? Is there any evidence in the history?
Dr. Hauser: No, but as we know, the evolution of life has gone through different stages of... How do you...?
Prabhupada: Darwin's theory. Do you mean to say, Darwin's theory?
Dr. Hauser: Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: That is nonsense. Darwin was a number-one nonsense. Yes. Rascal. He has confused the whole world.
Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Why...?
Prabhupada: Evolution of matter. Matter cannot evolve. That is not possible.
Dr. Hauser: But evolution of life...
Prabhupada: What is that life? That is different from matter. That is a different energy. That I am speaking. Matter is... Life is the origin of matter. The evolution is not of the matter, but of the life. That Darwin does not know. Therefore I say nonsense. He does not know that.
Dr. Hauser: Yes. But I feel in the...
Prabhupada: Just like this is an apartment. So from this apartment, you go to another apartment. So it does not mean that this apartment has evolved to that apartment. I, the person, I create that apartment, or I prefer that apartment. Not that this apartment has evolved into that apartment.
Dr. Hauser: Yes, I can see what you mean. Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Darwin's nonsense is there. He is changing the apartment. Apartment is becoming a different apartment. That is not a fact. Just try to understand. This room cannot develop into another room. But I, the resident of this room, I can go from this apartment to another apartment. Or I can create another apartment. This is evolution.
Dr. Hauser: And I can create a bigger apartment.
Prabhupada: Yes, bigger, smaller, as I like. Not necessarily bigger. That is also another nonsense.
Dr. Hauser: And my intelligence might grow also.
Prabhupada: Intelligence, maybe. But there must be means. You may be very intelligent, but if you have no means to erect another nice apartment, how it will?
Dr. Hauser: Trial and error.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Hauser: Trial and error.
Prabhupada: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there. You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet. So that point is missing in Darwin's theory. He says that body is evolving. That is nonsense. The body is evolving, then why the monkey body is not producing a human body at the present moment? Where is the evidence? The monkeys are already there. Where is the evidence in the zoo that a monkey has produced a human being? Do you think it is all right?
Dr. Hauser: Yes, that, that life might have taken different forms, that I'm quite sure of. And that the human being might not have existed for about a hundred thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: No human beings exists eternal. He's existing. But he accepting, he's accepting different situation.
Paramahamsa: There's proof of this in that recently there was a discovery in South America. I think it was in Kenya. Where they discovered a skeletal remains that were over hundreds of thousands of years old that was pre, what is it? Mag... What is it?
Hamsaduta: Cro-magnon.
Paramahamsa: Cro-magnon, and it was the same human body as now, as we have now. They have discovered. And with this discovery, they say, completely all of Darwin's theories have been destroyed. This is a fact. Immediately see. He overlooked. He says: "I do not see any proof that human beings lived, millions of years ago. Therefore I think apes were existing." But what proof does he have? And how they have discovered bones and they have proven by tests that Cro-magnon era there was the same human body. It's a fact. And completely his, all his theories have been destroyed. Because he again, he was working with his illusory senses.
Dr. Hauser: Hmm. But there are the dinosaurs for example. The dinosaurs, yes. Which died and disappeared from the earth. And that is also a kind of evolution that has taken place.
Hamsaduta: He says there are these prehistoric animals like dinosaurs, these big, gigantic animals, they are no longer existing now, but they existed at one time. So there, there was some evolution there.
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Hamsaduta: But the point is Vedic, Vedic conclusion is...
Prabhupada: No, but, apart from Vedic conclusion, this example, that practically, when I go from this apartment to another apartment, so this apartment does not become another apartment. I go from this apartment to another apartment. He's missing that "I". Or "you". That is his nonsense.
Dr. Hauser: He's only talking about apartments.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is his rascaldom.
Dr. Hauser: Yes, I can see what you mean.
Prabhupada: He does not know. The apartment does not change. The owner of the apartment goes from one apartment to another. That he does not know. Therefore he's cheating. He does not, he has no perfect knowledge, and he's cheating. Cheater. He does not know. The soul, from the monkey's body is coming to human body. That is nice. Not that the monkey's body is changing into human body.
Dr. Hauser: But some of this cheating, as you call it, must have, have still been a great use to mankind because it has not been proven at the time when this theory has been evoked by some scientist, it has not been proven that he's right, but he works according to this principle that he has got, and then later...
Prabhupada: Yes. That, that is explained in Bhagavatam that in the jungle one big animal is the leader of other animals. That's all. But they're animals. Is it not?
Dr. Hauser: But I don't really understand.
Prabhupada: In the jungle, in the forest,...
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Prabhupada: ...the lion is considered to be the king of animals. So lion is also animal, only big animal. That's all.
Dr. Hauser: So you mean the scientist is a big lion.
Prabhupada: Yes. A big rascal. That's it. A big rascal. A big rascal is eulogized by small rascals. That's all.
Dr. Hauser: Seducing a small rascal.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Hauser: Seducing a small rascal.
Prabhupada: Another small rascal. This is the position. Everything is going on like that. Not only in science, philosophy, religion, sociology, politics. The, a big rascal and small rascal. That's all.
Dr. Hauser: But you must evoke quite a lot of feelings when you say, for example, that Einstein was a very big rascal.
Prabhupada: No. He believed in God. Yes. He believed in God. He was not a rascal. A sane man.
Paramahamsa: Carl Jung also.
Prabhupada: Yes. He believed in God.
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Prabhupada: He tried to find out the brain of God. So he's not rascal. He's sane man. Those who are defying God, they're rascal, demons. Einstein believed in God. Yes. There are many scientists, they believe in God. Harav abhaktasya kuto... Unless one is God conscious, he's a rascal. Immediately, take it. We take it like that. As soon as you say godless, atheist, oh, a rascal. That's all. It may be the understanding of God is not so perfect. But he thinks there is God. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. And the demons will never accept God. Just like in Russia. All set of rascals. They do not believe in God.
Dr. Hauser: But the interest... The religious interest in Russia is, is greater than in any other country in Europe. But not the, the leaders are not...
Prabhupada: I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere. The leaders, the rascal leaders spoiling the whole world situation. In India also. In India, by nature, they are aloof from these four principles of sinful life. Eighty percent of the population, by nature. But government, at the present moment, the leaders, they're inducing them to eat meat, to drink. And gambling also. Introducing. Gambling. Government is issuing that gambling cards. Because government means some rascal just like Nixon has gone to the power. Now he's proved he's a rascal. So everywhere the government leaders means all rascals.
Dr. Hauser: Although Nixon says, in every television speech, that he is a God believer.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Hauser: Nixon says, at least, that he is a God believer.
Prabhupada: That is his politics.
Dr. Hauser: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Maybe God believer, but...
Dr. Hauser: Are you leaving for...
Paramahamsa: Six-ten. We leave in ten, fifteen minutes. Would you care to go?
Dr. Hauser: No, I have to go back to my, to this emergency ward. One of my colleagues was, were ill today, and I had to replace him.
Paramahamsa: As far as Nixon is concerned, we can see from his activities that he may say that he's a believer in God, but his actions prove contrary. You see, that's... You see you can judge a person by his activities. With someone like Srila Prabhupada, you can judge that actually he is the only person I have ever met within my short span who is actually... [break]
Dr. Hauser: ...I was also thinking that it was a little bit hard for me to get into the language or the Indian words. And I felt that one has to be rather intellectually sharp to be able to go into these matters.
Prabhupada: What is that difficult word?
Dr. Hauser: Intellectually...
Prabhupada: What is that difficult word? You are feeling difficult.
Hamsaduta: The Indian words means Sanskrit words.
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Prabhupada: No, Sanskrit word we have given English equivalents. So what is the difficulty?
Dr. Hauser: It's not that, it's not that... I can understand them but... and I can get the translations and... but then...
Prabhupada: We have given the equivalent of each word.
Dr. Hauser: Hm.
Prabhupada: And then translation and then purport.
Dr. Hauser: No, but what I mean to say is that this is knowledge that can be spread in this way, it must be spread to people who are rather accustomed to reading, to getting...
Prabhupada: No. If he reads he will be accustomed. Reading will make him accustomed.
Dr. Hauser: Well the reading customs, for example, in Sweden are very, you know, very limited to newspapers and television and it will take them...
Prabhupada: That we have explained.
Dr. Hauser: Yeah?
Prabhupada: We have explained. Find out this verse, tad-vag-visargo janatagha-viplavah. Yes, first of all you see the index?
Srutakirti: What this?
Prabhupada: Yes, yellow book, you know.
Srutakirti: First Canto.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tad-vag-visargo janatagha-viplavah.
Srutakirti: (reads verse and translation, S.B. 1.5.11)
Prabhupada: You follow?
Dr. Hauser: Hm.
Prabhupada: Read it again.
Srutakirti: (reads the translation again)
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Prabhupada: The newspaper is glorification of this mundane world. You have to transfer your consciousness to understand the glorification of the Supreme. This is transcendental literature. So people have got the tendency to read but they're glorifying this rascal, mundane rascals. So that attitude should be transferred to understand the glorification of the Supreme Lord. That will be (indistinct). That we are presenting. We are presenting a literature exactly like the newspaper. They are glorifying some Nixon and Dixon. We are glorifying Krsna. That is the difference. That is the difference. If Nixon has glorification, how much glorification is there in reserve of the Supreme Lord?
Dr. Hauser: But these Nixons and Dixons and Hitlers and... They have a rather...
Prabhupada: That is illusion. We are attached to them.
Dr. Hauser: Yes, we are attached to them also because they have power over us. They can persecute us and they can... So it's very...
Prabhupada: No, the greater power is Krsna. If you take shelter of Krsna, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlada Maharaja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Krsna and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja, aham tvam sarva-pape... [Bg. 18.66]. "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Krsna, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom. That is explained in the previous verse. Na yad vacas citra-padam harer yaso, jagat-pavitram pragrnita karhicit, tad vayasam tirtham [SB 1.5.10]. Read that, previous to this verse.
Srutakirti: (reads verse, SB 1.5.10)
Prabhupada: Translation.
Srutakirti: (reads translation)
Prabhupada: It is a question of taste. Just see birds, two kinds of birds, crows and the swans, different taste. Therefore we are trying to create taste for Krsna consciousness. Then these crows' place, newspaper, we'll not... We don't read newspaper. We don't touch it unless there is some news of ours. We don't touch it. What is the use of wasting time? They read so big, big bundle of newspaper. But we don't touch them. Oh, we have got (indistinct) literature here. Why should we waste our time in the crows' manifestation? The same politics, same Nixon, same Dixon, same Hitler. It is called punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed. Things which have already been chewed and thrown away, another person is crying, "Let me see if there's any juice." But you have already chewed. What juice you find there? Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30], again and again, same politics, same new leader, same he's a rascal. Just like Nixon advertises in news, "America now requires Nixon." So America accepted him and now America doesn't want him. Again another Nixon will come. This is going on, punah punah, again and again, chewing the chewed. The people are not disgusted but we have tasted all these rascals. Why another Nixon?
Dr. Hauser: There doesn't seem to be any accumulation of knowledge.
Prabhupada: They have no brain. The same thing, the crows. So therefore they have to be enlightened to Krsna consciousness then they will be able to find out some big leader, nice leader for them. There are so many things. You are educated. You should try to understand our philosophy. There are so many things to be learned from our... They're not sentimentally dancers only. They've got logic, philosophy, science, everything. Otherwise how we are writing so many books? Just see, ancient word, how they are nicely, these two verses we have read. How full of meaning. Na yad vacas citra-padam harer yaso. Harer, pragrnita karhicit, tad vayasam tirtham [SB 1.5.10], each word has volumes of meanings. There are 18,000 verses in Srimad-Bhagavatam. And each word you'll find enlivening. Each word. It's such a nice literature. One verse contains actually sixteen words. So 18,000 multiplied by sixteen, how much?
Dr. Hauser: 18,000...
Prabhupada: 18,000 verses multiplied by sixteen. How many words?
Dr. Hauser: 280,000. Yes.
Prabhupada: 280,000 words and each word you'll find a new light. That is (indistinct). Each word you'll find.
Dr. Hauser: Are these going to be translated into Swedish too?
Prabhupada: Yes, if you do. (laughter) We have got the...
Srutakirti: You can do that.
Prabhupada: Some Sanskrit scholar in Swedish language must come forward. Then it can be done. But he must be a good scholar because each word is meaningful. Yes. Just like beginning of the Bhagavata, janmady asya [SB 1.1.1]. Janmadi. So this one word has volumes of meaning. Janmadi means beginning from janma. So beginning from janma, but, how many things are there? Generally, birth janmastiti lat(?), birth, then you stay for some time and then you become vanquished. This body. Janmady asya [SB 1.1.1]. Asya of this material world. Janma, creation, then situation, then annihilation. Now how many volumes of books you can write on these three words? How this universe was created? How it is being maintained and how it will be annihilated? These three words. How many books you can write?
Dr. Hauser: Infinity.
Prabhupada: (indistinct) Bhagavata verse, janmady asya [SB 1.1.1], asya janmadi (indistinct) concise word but volumes of meanings. Volumes. Each word is like that. Vidya bhagavata-vali(?). Therefore one's learning is complete when he reads Srimad-Bhagavatam. Otherwise he remains imperfect, in spite of all learning. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1], from where? Now the creation of this cosmic world, from where? But you do not know from where. This is explained in Bhagavatam. Param satyam dhimahi. That is actually true. In this way simply if you analyze one verse, you'll find each word is full of volumes of meaning. Janmady asya yatah, anvayat [SB 1.1.1]. Like the creation, anvayat, directly and indirectly, itaratas carthesu, in the matter of understanding, abhijnah. Abhijnah means completely cognizant. That is the Absolute Truth. He knows everything -- how this universe is created, how it is maintained, how it annihilated, directly and indirectly. Just like, I always, regular, everyday thing, when I am massaged by my student, I see so many veins so I think that I claim, "This is my leg," but I do not know what are these veins. Directly I know this is my leg, but indirectly I do not know how this leg is working with these veins and nerves and muscles. I do not know. But so far God is concerned, He has created. He knows every veins and everything. That is called abhijnah. In this way you analyze every word, you'll find volumes of meaning. The next question, "Where you got this experience?" You say He's abhijnah, He knows everything. To get experience one must have teacher. But the next word is svarat, He's experienced and self-sufficiency, svarat, independent. He hasn't got to go anywhere for experiencing. In this way each word is full of meaning. Janmady asya yatah, anvayad itaratas carthesv abhijnah svarat, tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah [SB 1.1.1]. We have very shortly described this one verse. I think five, six pages. You've got that verse?
Srutakirti: Yes. Right here. (showing book to the psychiatrist) Here's the translation, the verse.
Prabhupada: That is very short description.
Srutakirti: Short. (laughs) ...for the next verse also.
Prabhupada: So it is so meaningful. All learned scholars of the world must read Srimad-Bhagavatam if they want to actually good for themselves and good for the world.
Srutakirti: (indistinct) if we can leave at seven o'clock, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: As soon as you say, I leave.
Syamasundara: It's seven o'clock now.
Dr. Hauser: It's seven now.
Syamasundara: I have five minutes to.
Hamsaduta: Why don't you come with us.
Dr. Hauser: I can't. I'm very sorry but I would have very much liked to.
Hamsaduta: Oh, I see.
Srutakirti: Tomorrow morning Srila Prabhupada's leaving at 8:30, if you'd like to come. He has a morning walk at six o'clock if you'd like to come for that.
Dr. Hauser: Before I leave.
Prabhupada: That is not so important. Nobody can rise at six o'clock.
Dr. Hauser: Well, I can sometimes. It has been a pleasure meeting you.
Prabhupada: All right, thank you very much for your time also.
Dr. Hauser: Thank you. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm

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