Thursday, September 19, 2013
Animal Civilization
Jayadvaita: At the college
programs, Satsvarupa Maharaja and I have been giving a lot of classes on
varnasrama-dharma. Because they always want to hear something about the Hindu
caste system, so they'll take us on that basis. And then we speak about
varnasrama-dharma. And they don't have any idea to defeat it. They always, some
little weak argument, but they don't have any better system.
Prabhupada: What is their argument?
Jayadvaita: Hardly.... Well, they have some idea, they argue
that there's no social mobility, because they all have some bodily idea that
caste by birth.
Prabhupada: No, that is not the fact.
Jayadvaita: No.
Prabhupada: The qualification.
Jayadvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just
sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that
"What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't
say anything.
Prabhupada: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can
be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body -- the head,
the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must
be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brahmana. Then everything will go on
smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All
laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class.
Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.
Jayadvaita: Their only objection, when we present that
there's brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa, then they become
automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense
gratification.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization.
And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society.
Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their
central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an
animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense
gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can
kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own
child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is
put into the, what is that, left luggage?
Hari-sauri: Left-luggage lockers. Trivikrama Maharaja, in
Japan. He said over two hundred thousand, uh, twenty thousand babies, they put
them in a left-luggage locker and leave them.
Prabhupada: Bus way station? Railway station? Leave luggage.
Put it and lock it, then not coming back. Then when there is bad smell.... This
is going on. This is simply animal civilization. Taking the last drop of milk
from the cow and immediately send it to the slaughterhouse. They are doing like
that. Before sending to the slaughterhouse, they draw out the last drop of milk
from the cow. And immediately killing. So you require the milk, you are taking
so much milk, without milk you cannot.... And the animal from whom you take
milk, she's your mother. They forget this. Mother supplies milk, she supplies
milk from her body, and you are killing the mother? Is that civilization?
Killing mother? And milk is necessary. Therefore you are taking the last drop of
it. Otherwise, what is the use of taking the last drop of milk from the cow? It
is necessary. So why not let her live and supply you milk, and you can make
hundreds and thousands of very nourishing palatable preparation from milk? Where
is that intelligence? Milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So
instead of taking the blood, take the transformation and live nicely, like
honest gentlemen. No. They are not even gentlemen. Rogues, uncivilized. If you
want to take meat, you can kill some insignificant animals like hogs and dogs
which have no use. You can eat them, if you at all eat. That was allowed, hogs
and dogs are allowed. Because no gentleman class will take meat. It is lower
class. So they were allowed, "All right, you can take hogs, svapaca." Lower
class of men, they were taking hogs and dogs. Still, they are taking. So if you
want meat, you can kill these unimportant animals. Why you are killing the
animal whose last drop of milk you require? What is the sense? And as soon as
you take Krsna, He killed Putana but gave her the position of the mother.
Because Krsna felt obliged, that "Whatever the Putana's intention may be, but I
sucked her breast, so she's My mother." So we are taking milk from the cow. The
cow is not my mother? Who can live without milk? And who has not taken cow's
milk? Immediately, in the morning, you require milk. And the animal, she's
supplying milk, she's not mother? What is the sense? Mother-killing
civilization. And they want to be happy. And periodically there is great war and
wholesale massacre, reaction. (pause) You make it nice garden. Next year I shall
come. From May, I shall stay here May, June, July. (devotees laugh)
Madhavananda: We will have many flowers.
Prabhupada: I find this place is the best than all our
places. Huh? What do you think?
Hari-sauri: Definitely.
Prabhupada: Specially this building on the riverside. Water
is there.
Madhavananda: Maybe, Srila Prabhupada, you would like to stay
a little longer this year?
Prabhupada: I have got engagements; otherwise I would have
stayed here. Already engagement is there. I want to return by fourteenth August
in India. Otherwise, I would have stayed here and see things are nicely done.
Anyway.
Jayadvaita: They've been after you for so long in New
Vrindaban.
Prabhupada: New Vrindaban climatic condition is not so good.
Here the climatic condition is good. Four months this climate is very good. It
is in the central part of America?
Madhavananda: Little north.
Prabhupada: North. So north is supposed to be cooler.
Hari-sauri: In the winter it's not so good. Winter's very
bad.
Prabhupada: Winter eight months? No. In winter this water
becomes solid. You know that?
Satsvarupa: Sometimes in Detroit there's three foot of snow,
and the winter is, it's a very deep winter here, but the summer is nice.
Prabhupada: You convince your countrymen that "It is a great
sinful activity that you are killing your mother. You stop this. If you want to
eat meat, you can eat some other, nonimportant animals. There are so many." The
Chinese they are eating rats also. Cats, rats, everything.
Devotee: Monkeys.
Prabhupada: Monkeys also. So monkey's the forefather of
Darwin. Better kill them so that there is no opportunity of criticism that "You
are coming from monkey." You extinct this species. It is rather insulting. If I
say that you are descendant of monkey, then it is insult. So extinct this
monkey. I don't think there is monkey here. Africa there is monkey. You have
been in Africa? There are monkey-eating birds. Top of the tree, monkey, they
catch up on the head and drop it from high. And then they take it. (pause) There
was a boat which belonged to this house. I think he has sold it.
Madhavananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: There was no objection.
Madhavananda: He sold it to the lawyer, Ambarisa's lawyer. He
did not do a very good job for us, and the proof is that the owner sold the boat
to the lawyer. He got a very good deal. So he was working with Groane(?), the
former owner.
Prabhupada: In his favor.
Madhavananda: In his favor.
Prabhupada: Cheating.
Madhavananda: Yes. And the boys were not experienced enough
to protect the property. Chandeliers were taken, statues, some furniture. It was
not done very nicely.
Prabhupada: That means our men were not experienced, Jagadisa
and Govardhana. Who else? Who was in charge?
Madhavananda: Govardhana was the president. If the lawyer
knows you do not know, then he will take advantage. [break] He measured the two
rooms, and the lecture hall length is forty-seven feet and twenty-seven feet
wide. And the temple room length from the back to the altar, not including the
Deities room, altar, is fifty feet.
Prabhupada: Smaller.
Madhavananda: No, actually larger.
Hari-sauri: Three feet bigger. That's without a Deity room
also.
Madhavananda: It's larger. And the width of the temple room
is twenty-eight. So if we were to put in the altar in the top room, it would
also take ten feet. So that would make thirty-five feet as compared to fifty
feet downstairs. So because we don't have that extra space of the temple room,
the downstairs actually is bigger. The only difficulty is because there is an
upstairs walk we have to walk above the Deity. But if we put a nice domes there
it might look very nice also, and then not walk up there. But the space is
bigger.
Prabhupada: I thought this space was bigger.
Hari-sauri: It looks bigger, but the temple room is actually
very big. It's a good size. Actually, the only reason they need to go above the
Deities is just to get into that room where tulasi is, although they open those
doors sometimes.
Prabhupada: There is another big room, so add it together.
Two rooms, then it will be bigger. (pause) [break] ...with snow.
Satsvarupa: I was thinking of that. About five months, it can
even snow here in April, and it snows in December. From December to April. Not
that every day, but when it comes, it doesn't go away either.
Prabhupada: These trees become leafless? No.
Madhavananda: Yes. Except for these.
Prabhupada: All other trees become.
Madhavananda: When you are here, it's just exactly like
Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Krsna is here; it is Vrndavana.
Raksana: Wherever His most merciful, confidential associate
is.
Jayadvaita: To start this center, it was not at all like
Vrndavana. [break]
Madhavananda: It's a channel, actually. It comes in from Lake
St. Clair and then it goes around, and there's a bridge there, and just past,
one hundred yards, it goes out again. All of this property is owned by one man.
His name is Harris. He owns this whole island and all of the land up here also.
And up this way there are also many large mansions. Fisher mansions. The same
man who built this house built many other mansions up here. But this is the
nicest.
Prabhupada: Oh. What for he did it?
Madhavananda: His family members. And then on this island, at
the very end, on the lake there is a very, very large mansion called the Garwood
Mansion, but it was completely destroyed.
Prabhupada: Why?
Madhavananda: Ah, this man Harris, he wanted to get all the
people off of this land that he owned. So he let the hippies and Hell's Angels
move into this Garwood Mansion, and they destroyed it. And they raised commotion
and disturbance all along. He was trying to get them all to leave. He's a very
strange person. Now he's trying to sell everything. They are thinking to make
some housing complex. It's a very big business venture. That is why we want to
buy this land in front, to protect this side of the house in case anyone else
wants to build there.
Prabhupada: They drink this water? No.
Madhavananda: But of all the lakes in this part of the
country, this lake is the cleanest. But still it is not clean. They ruin all the
waterways with the factories' wastes. When I was flying to Detroit, I passed
over the lake and I saw big oil slicks all along the shores.
Dhrstadyumna: Just like the Kaliya serpent, poisoning the
river. But you have come to dance on their heads, Srila Prabhupada. Sometimes
our boys, when they go into the city, they see the big buildings like the teeth
of Aghasura. But they say, "Srila Prabhupada will protect us. We will go into
the smelly city, we will distribute the books in the belly of the city, but
Srila Prabhupada will come and he will protect us." (Prabhupada laughs)
Prabhupada: What price they want for this island?
Madhavananda: Very large amount.
Raksana: We can have a Mayapura complex and a Detroit
complex.
Madhavananda: I don't know exactly. [break]
Satsvarupa: ...Sundays ago, one Indian man asked after the
Sunday lecture why does Krsna like a peacock feather, or why does Krsna have a
peacock feather? So Madhavananda answered, "Because He likes it." And the man
said, "This is not an answer. There has to be some reason." So then I said, "You
cannot question why Krsna likes something. He's a person." But he wasn't
satisfied.
Prabhupada: Krsna is God; whatever He likes, you have to
supply. That is God. Why He likes, we cannot question. That is not the business
of the servant. So as servant we simply obey the orders. That's all. That is
real servant. Is there any instance the servant is asking, "Why you are asking
me to supply you this?" Therefore what would be the position of the servant? He
would be dismissed. Bhrtyas cottara-dayakah. That is very dangerous.
dusta bharya satham mitram
bhrtyas cottara-dayakah
sa-sarpe ca grhe vaso
mrtyur eva na samsayah
Dusta bharya. If wife is polluted, dusta bharya, and satham
mitram, and friend is a hypocrite.... Dusta bharya satham mitram. What is that?
Bhrtyas cottara-dayakah, and servant does not obey, gives answer or, yes, if
your master asks, "Give me this," if he says, "Why are you asking?" Such kind of
bhrtya, servant, and polluted wife and hypocrite friend, three, and a snake
within the bedroom.... [break] Family means father, mother, wife, children.
Generally this is family. So family members are supposed to be all friendly, in
one accord, so that family life is peaceful. But sometimes the family members
become enemies. So how they become enemies? That is given by Canakya Pandita:
mata satruh, rna-karta pita satruh. Father is enemy if he's a debtor, he dies a
debtor. According to Vedic law, because the son inherits the property of father,
he's responsible also for the debts of the father, by law. A father dies debtor,
so the creditor can claim from his son. So therefore rna-karta pita satruh. A
father who dies a debtor, he's enemy. Mata satrur dvicarini. Mother becomes
enemy when she accepts another husband in the presence of children. Mata satrur
dvicarini. Rna-karta pita satruh is father and mother. Then wife: rupavati
bharya satruh. If wife is very beautiful, she's enemy. (laughs) Rupavati bharya
satruh. Because he will remain always anxious whether my wife is going with
other somebody. And it so happens. (laughs) Rupavati bharya satruh. And putrah
satrur apanditah. And son is enemy if he's a rascal. So father, mother, wife,
children.
Hari-sauri: And the daughter?
Prabhupada: Daughter is also son. Son and daughter are the
same position. If they are not educated, they become burden. Apandita, means not
educated. Then they become burden, simply eyesore. That is another place he
states: varam eko guni putro na ca murkha-satair api. Ko 'rthah putrena jatena
yo na vidvan na bhaktiman. What is the use of such children, of son, who is
neither a devotee nor a learned man? So, kanena caksusa kim va caksuh pidaiva
kevalam. Just like blind eyes. What is the use of it? It is simply pains giving.
You have got eyes, but if it is diseased, cataract or something, so what is the
use of possessing these eyes? Sometimes it becomes so painful that the doctors,
they pluck out. You know that? They get out the eyes completely, and decorate
with a false eye. This is very delicate place. Even a small grain enters, it
gives so much trouble. So if the eye itself is diseased, it is very, very
painful. Therefore sometimes he plucks out. Kanena caksusa kim va caksuh pidaiva
kevalam.
Hari-sauri: One of the peacocks has opened its tail.
Madhavananda: Dancing. (pause) Vrtrasura, he said the same
thing when he was fighting Lord Indra, that a son who is neither a devotee nor a
hero is useless.
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu said if there is no Krsna,
then everything is useless. Sunyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me. (long
pause) [break]
Madhavananda: ...attach a rope to the back of the boat and
they have wooden skis...
Prabhupada: Plank.
Madhavananda: ...and they ski on the water for sport.
Jayadvaita: Satsvarupa Maharaja and I were at some place
where there was a lake, and on Saturday and Sunday so many speedboats with
people playing and enjoying, and on Monday, no boats. Everyone was working
again.
Prabhupada: They do not want to work. Therefore they take
advantage of Sunday. Inclination is not to work. But unfortunately that is not
possible. If they do not work, they cannot eat. But if we say that "There is a
place, without working you can eat, and for example come to us," they will not
accept. Then they will say, "You are escaping. You are escaping." (laughs) If
you work, that you don't like, and if somebody does not work, he's
escaping.
Hari-sauri: Envy.
Prabhupada: Just see. There is story like that. One saintly
person was sitting, and some karmis came, that: "You are escaping, you are not
working." So he said, "Why shall I work?" "You'll get money." "So what shall I
do with the money?" "Then you can live peacefully." "I am living peacefully. Why
shall I work?" (laughs) So they want to earn money, keep a good bank balance,
and at the end of the life they want to live very peacefully, without any
working. But if somebody is living peacefully without working, they will
criticize him. Envious. They will accuse him, "You are escaping." If the end is
this, and I shall live peacefully without any work -- I am doing that in my own
standard -- why you are bothering me?
Hari-sauri: Once I was on sankirtana and an old man came up
and he was very, very angry. He was so angry he was almost going to hit me, and
he was saying, "I'm seventy-three years old, and I have to work every day!" He
stopped from his job to come over. And he said, "I'm seventy-three years old,
and I still have to work. And here you are on the street, and you're doing
nothing," like this, "and I'm so old and I still have work." He was so angry he
was almost going to hit me. So envious.
Madhavananda: Sometimes they question, "How can you be happy?
You don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't eat meat, and you don't gamble. What
can you do?"
Prabhupada: Did you not say that we have got something; the
pleasure derived from all these things, that is very inferior. We have got
pleasure of superior quality. Therefore we have been able to give it up. That is
the fact. But you have no information of the superior pleasure. Therefore
sticking to this inferior pleasure.
Madhavananda: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, when Daksa cursed
Lord Siva, he also said that statement that the materialists are always envious
of the self-realized souls for their opulence of self-realization.
Prabhupada: [break] ...nature is the mother. So is that
correct or not?
Madhavananda: Yes, yes. Mother nature.
Prabhupada: So mother is there and children are there; so why
there is no father? They say there is no God. How it is possible? The mother is
there and children are there. How it is that there is no father? What is the
answer? They say there is no God, or no father?
Madhavananda: They say that there may be God, but no one has
even seen Him.
Prabhupada: You might not have seen your father; does it mean
there is no father?
Hari-sauri: Then they say what is the relevance of knowing
who your father is? We exist, so let's move forward.
Prabhupada: No, no, first of all, thing is that you say there
is no God. That is.... Or there is no father. How it can be accepted?
Jayadvaita: They'll say that mother and father..., we see
that a human being has a mother and father.
Prabhupada: Everyone has mother and father. Birds, beasts,
everyone.
Jayadvaita: But these material things, they don't need
mothers and fathers.
Prabhupada: No, there is father, you do not know. You are
blind. Bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bg 7.10]. Aham bija-pradah pita [Bg. 14.4]. God
says there that "I am the seed-giving father." Otherwise, how it is possible to
beget children? You are experienced that unless the father gives the seed, there
is no question of children. So how they can deny the father? You may have seen
or not seen, doesn't matter. But there must be father. Just like Jabala
Upanisad, Gautama Muni asked that Satyaka, "Who is your father?" First of all
said: "Are you brahmana?" "Sir, I do not know." "Who is your father?" "I do not
know." "Go and ask your mother." Mother asked, she said, "I do not remember who
is your father." She never denied, that "You had no father; you were
automatically born." She never said that. She said only that "I don't remember
who is your father." And he wanted.... (aside:) Don't. Want to that service.(?)
So the mother said that "I do not remember who is your father." So he said
frankly, that "My mother does not remember who is my father." So Gautama Muni
accepted him, that "You are so truthful; so you are brahmana. I will accept
you." Nobody would like to say that "My mother does not remember who is my
father." But he said that. Therefore he accepted him that "You are so truthful.
I'll accept you as my disciple." So the point is, the mother said "I do not
remember who is your father." But the mother did not say that "You are born
without father." That is not possible. So when there is mother, there is
children, there must be father. That's a fact. You cannot put any argument. How
they can say there is no God? "We have not seen God." What is this nonsense
argument. Hm? What will be the answer?
Jayadvaita: We gave a class in a university, and the
professor was an atheist. He didn't want us to speak, but he finally agreed we
could speak. And after we'd spoken, he gave some argument against us. But he
couldn't argue against us. His argument was for us.
Prabhupada: What was that argument? (laughs)
Jayadvaita: He said that two fish are swimming in a tank, and
one fish said to the other fish that there must be God because someone must be
changing the water in the tank. So he was trying to ridicule that these fish are
speculating something. But I just said to the students, "So this is a very good
conversation. The fish is intelligent. There must be someone who is running the
environment, nature." So he couldn't say anything against us, although he was
trying to be a big atheist.
Prabhupada: What was the point?
Jayadvaita: He was trying to show somehow that these foolish
fish were speculating something just to make some story that would sound...,
that this is a ridiculous thing to think. But it was a very sensible thing to
think.
Prabhupada: What is that sensible thing?
Jayadvaita: That the environment is being controlled by
someone, not by us. So there is someone superior. So I just said that to his
students, "So your professor is giving a good example."
Prabhupada: In our favor.
Jayadvaita: In our favor.
Prabhupada: That's a fact. The fish may be swimming in the
water, but a sensible fish must inquire that "Who has created this water?" He is
enjoying in the water, or in the land, so the enquiry should be, "Who's land it
is?" We are demarkating this land "mine," he has demarkated this land "mine,"
but originally, who is the owner of this land? Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra
1]. Everything is God's property. That is natural. And God said, bhoktaram
yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Somebody must be proprietor. I
am proprietor of this land. Who is the proprietor of this water? That is natural
question. If somebody is proprietor of this land, then somebody must be
proprietor of that water.
Madhavananda: You once asked that same question to Kenneth
Keating in Delhi. You said, "You say that this is America, but who owns
America?" He could not answer.
Prabhupada: Ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu
bharata [Bg. 13.3]. The best thing is to follow the formula given by Krsna: na
mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. As soon as one denies
the supremacy of God, he is either sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, in
these categories. This is the qualification. So we shall take things very
simplified. As soon as we see somebody not Krsna conscious, immediately we take
him in either of these groups. That's all. Then if he objects, then you come to
argument. Hmm? What do you think?
Madhavananda: In argument, we can never be defeated.
Prabhupada: So in the school, college classes, there is
sometimes argument?
Satsvarupa: All the time. (laughter) We always save half the
time for questions, and immediately, "How do you know that that is true?" All
challenging. "Why should I believe?" "How could God present the scriptures?" All
faithless.
Jayadvaita: In this part of the country, I think the
students, generally they admit there is God. They're a little pious in this
central portion. There are so many farms and they're not so deteriorated.
Prabhupada: Polluted.
Jayadvaita: But then they don't accept that Krsna
consciousness is the only process for understanding God. They want to maintain
Christian religion, or.... Not Christian religion, but sense gratification and,
at the same time, God consciousness.
Prabhupada: Well we are not denying sense gratification. We
want to regulate. That's all.
Madhavananda: Actually, we have the best sense
gratification.
Prabhupada: Hmm? Yes.
Madhavananda: On the radio program, one lady, she was asking
questions. She was very envious. "And you are living in such a palace."
Prabhupada: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live
in the best place. We are Krsna's servants, the supreme government. We must have
the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are
unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's
servants. Why the governor is living in the best house of the city?
Madhavananda: We said, "You can live here with us." She said,
"Thank you."
Prabhupada: Without any charges. Did you not say? But as soon
as you shall say there is no tea, he'll go away. "Oh, horrible." (laughter) Just
see. And you have to rise early in the morning. "Oh, it's still horrible." And
chant Hare Krsna. "Ah, still."
Hari-sauri: There are so many apparent contradictions in our
life-style, the karmis are just baffled. They see us living in a big nice house
and enjoying such nice grounds and everything, and then we tell them we get up
at three-thirty and take a cold bath and do so many..., and we don't drink or
smoke or anything. They can't understand.
Satsvarupa: The Sunday newspaper here a month ago did a very
big story, the whole front cover. And it was called "Krsna Consciousness:
Salvation or Slavery."
Hari-sauri: That was that article that you saw in
Honolulu.
Madhavananda: These are our two biggest book distributors of
the women-Lekhasravanti and mother Jagadhatri.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Madhavananda: They claim that when we chant, we hypnotize
ourselves.
Prabhupada: And still we save expenditure. You hypnotize by
drinking. (laughter) We haven't got to pay for that, whiskey bottle. That is
also hypnotizing. You want to forget all day's labor by drinking. That is also
hypnotizing. Or by gambling. So we also hypnotize. Better hypnotizing
method.
Jayadvaita: In New York, you argued that it may be
hypnotizing, but by this hypnosis we get people to give up gambling,
intoxication, meat-eating and illicit sex. So it should be adopted.
Srutakirti:( break) ...some very interesting statistics this
morning about drinkers in this country.
Dhrstadyumna: My father, he's the president of this liquor
company, and they study the charts to see who is drinking the most. And they
have discovered that the biggest drinkers in the world are the politicians in
Washington, D.C., that they drink more liquor than anyone.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have got so many anxieties. So many
anxieties.
Dhrstadyumna: And how can they manage nicely when they are
always intoxicated?
Hari-sauri: When we were running our political format in
Melbourne -- one of the boys was going for some positioning in the state -- he
was quoted in the newspapers. They picked it out as the quote of the week,
because they asked him, they said, "What would be the first thing, if you are
elected, you will do?" So he said, "I would abolish the bar in the House of
Parliament." So they said, "Oh, why would you do that?" He said "How can you
rule a country when you're intoxicated all the time?" So they picked it out and
put it in the newspapers as the quote of the week.
Prabhupada: Who said?
Hari-sauri: In Melbourne, in one of the papers.
Prabhupada: Our man said?
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Very good argument, that these drunkards,
rascals, how you can rule over the country? You are always intoxicated.
Dhrstadyumna: Actually, the general mass of American people,
if they hear this, they will respect us very much. Just like we were staying in
the campsites. The little children, they come to the aratis, then they go back
to their campsite, and they told, "Oh mommy, daddy, come see this wonderful
bus." So they bring their fathers to Bhagavad-gita class, and we were lecturing
to the fathers of all these children. And afterwards they were all giving
donations and taking Bhagavad-gitas. Because they are very much upset about the
country, but they have no solution.
Prabhupada: No.
Dhrstadyumna: And then we can give alternatives.
Madhavananda: In a recent issue of Newsweek magazine, there
was a very large article about Washington, D.C. politicians-congressmen and
senators being exposed by the press for going out with prostitutes and taking
money and misspending. Big expose, scandal.
Prabhupada: What is that sound? Airplane?
Madhavananda: There is a very large factory over there. You
can see the smokestacks. What is it? What kind of factory? Electrical
company.
Prabhupada: We have got open place, but not very pleasant.
You cannot sit down for a long time. The wind is cold.
Madhavananda: Very beautiful here, all over the grounds.
There's also very beautiful places over there and all over.
Prabhupada: So develop it nicely. [break] ...fruit and flower
trees. Mango trees, all fruits, banana, papaya, jackfruit, apple, guava...
Hari-sauri: Pineapple.
Prabhupada: Pineapple. And flowers.
Hari-sauri: They have lots of gardenias there. (peacock
crying in background)
Prabhupada: Where you got this?
Madhavananda: Ann Arbor, Michigan, a farm. They raise
peacocks on different farms. (loud call of peacock)
Hari-sauri: It sounds just like Vrndavana in the
morning.
Prabhupada: [break] ...also. The evening begins at eleven,
half past twelve. And morning, at four o'clock. A few hours only. That is also
not complete dark.
Hari-sauri: Moscow is very far north, very northerly.
Prabhupada: I think I went there in June, in month of
June.
Madhavananda: When you went to Moscow, it was the mango
season in India.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhavananda: Because I remember when you went, someone said,
"You will miss the mango season, Srila Prabhupada." And you said, "Preaching in
the snows of Russia is more sweet than any mango." (Prabhupada laughs)
Hari-sauri: Even though you went there in the early summer,
there was no fruits or anything. No flowers.
Prabhupada: Only these...
Hari-sauri: Strawberries.
Prabhupada: They simply eat meat, that's all. And some milk
preparation.
Hari-sauri: They can't even do that now. Someone was saying
that they restrict them now. One day a week they have to eat fish because there
is not enough meat.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Hari-sauri: So they force them to eat fish now. (laughs) It's
very bad.
Madhavananda: They are
breeding.... In the airport we met one man; he is working on breeding a large
bull, cattle. They breed cows for slaughter. So they are breeding now a very
large cattle. They grow very, very.... it's called, instead of buffalo, they've
named it beefalo.
Jayadvaita: They crossed buffalo.
Madhavananda: Crossbreed. And it is very huge bull. They raise it only
for slaughtering, for getting a large quantity of meat. One bull, one buffalo,
weighs hundreds and hundreds of pounds. And they sell it for half million
dollars for one, so that they can breed it with others and make many. In the
airports, when we are distributing books, we meet many farmers who have
slaughter ranches. Whenever they say "farmer," usually it's for slaughtering.
[break]
Jayadvaita: ...in Wisconsin we saw that there are many dairy cows. They
are raising them especially for milk. It's called America's dairyland. And they
have many, many big dairy cows. And they are getting so much milk. We were
preaching that "If you take up Krsna consciousness, then you'll have the richest
state, because you have so many cows, and we are preaching that people should
drink milk and chant Hare Krsna. So your state will be the richest."
Prabhupada: No. We can.... From milk, we can make so many nice foods. You
take ghee, and from ghee, from grains, from fruits, you make so many varieties.
Just like dahl, pulses, soak it in the water and then fry in the ghee and put
masala, and it is so nice salty preparation, dahl mutta. Then make samosa. You
introduce these things, dahl mut(?), samosa, jalebis, they will like. They have
never tasted all these. Sandesa, rasagulla, pantoa,(?) so many varieties from
milk, only milk.
Madhavananda: In the restaurant in New York, many, many respectable
people come, and they come once and they come back again and again and again.
Prabhupada: Panwanna(?), puspanna, kijeranna(?), so many things. What is
that? If you kill the cow you get the meat only one time. But if you allow the
cow to live and take milk, and from milk you can make hundreds and thousands of
preparations. That is enjoyment, real enjoyment. In Delhi, there are shops, very
respectable shops. One side salt, and one side sweet. But the salt side or sweet
side, they're all based on ghee. This preparation, dahibara, so nice.
Combination of grain and yogurt. So introduce this. They do not know. It is a
new type of civilization we are trying to introduce for the benefit of the human
society. They do not know it. Crude civilization. Primitive. Kill an animal and
eat. And when you are civilized, you are supposed to know so many things; why
should you kill the animal? You utilize the animal. This milk is taking the
blood without killing. That is humanity. You are eating beef because of the
blood. So if you take the blood in a different way, you get the same benefit.
And if you are still ambitious to eat the meat, flesh, just wait, it will die,
you take at that time. Why so hurry? Everyone will die, there is no doubt about
it. So you take the dead body and eat. Why do they not?
Hari-sauri: They said there's something wrong with it. When it dies, it
has so many diseases and things.
Prabhupada: This is rascaldom. They are eating so many dead animals.
Hari-sauri: But they say if they kill it in a healthy condition then the
meat they eat is good.
Prabhupada: No, no, just like lobsters, they are very fond of lobster.
Lobster is never bought living. It is dead and rotten, decomposed, and they eat.
They cannot say that by killing we get fresh. You are eating so many rotten
things, decomposed. Actually, I have seen. It has become like puss, and still
they are eating.
Hari-sauri: In England they had a system, the gentry, when it was
pheasant shooting season, they used to kill the pheasants and they would hang
them up in the outhouses. And then, after a few days, it would begin to rot. And
when they were able to pull the skin off just in one piece, when it was just
hanging off, they could just pull it off, then it was good for eating. That's
when they would eat the flesh.
Prabhupada: Just see. And another, they are digging the pig? You said?
Hari-sauri: Oh, Sukadeva was saying in Hawaii. They bury the pig, and
when it becomes completely rotten they dig it up and eat it.
Prabhupada: So similarly, when the cow is dead, you dig, or put it within
the.... Or take it. No, nobody will object. In India, that is the system. When
the cow is dead, there is a class, they are called cobblers, camar(?). They are
informed and they'll come. They'll take it. And they'll eat the flesh and take
the skin, and tan it in their own method, and then prepare shoes. They sell it
in the market. So without any price, they get the skin, they eat the flesh. So
nobody is harmed. But there is a class.... [break] ...they are not going to
starve. From economic point of view, it is very good. So why you are killing and
maintaining so big, big slaughterhouse? Let everyone maintain the cows for
taking milk. And when it dies, you take it, you meat-eaters. Make that
arrangement.
Raksana: They spend so much money on force-feeding the cows (indistinct)
Madhavananda: It's actually been proven that the animal's flesh becomes
poison. Because of the fear of the animal, he releases adrenalin in his
bloodstream, and this adrenalin makes the meat poisonous to the human system,
proven scientifically.
Hari-sauri: Causing cancer.
Madhavananda: And that is one of the causes of cancer.
Prabhupada: I think we published some article.
Jayadvaita: Yes, in Back to Godhead, we gave these arguments.
Madhavananda: Mukunda did research.
Prabhupada: He wrote it nice.
Madhavananda: Yes, cancer is the largest killing disease now. [break]
Makhanlal: (laughter) These are some pictures of our farm project, St.
Louis farm project.
Prabhupada: Yes, increase farm projects. It is very nice project.
Self-dependent. Very good. Krsna personally, He lived in village, farm, cows,
calves, land, Govardhana Hill. It is very nice. Land, in America, you have got
so much land. Produce vegetable, grains, milk, eat sumptuously, no economic
question. Prepare very nice product. And make some money by sending ghee in the
city. Srutakirti will take charge. (laughter) There is sea also? No.
Makhanlal: There's a small creek in one...
Prabhupada: Not ocean.
Makhanlal: Not ocean, no.
Hari-sauri: That's just the hills in the background.
Prabhupada: I think this farm organization will not be liked by the
government.
Hari-sauri: Because of the self-sufficiency? Once they know that we can
live independently, they won't like it.
Madhavananda: They don't like it already. They are attacking in New
Vrindaban, publicity saying that this is just a hippie farm and this and that.
They don't like.... It is the state. They see that we are living independently
of the entire society. They don't like that. They want everyone to be following
their way of society.
Prabhupada: Why not our way of? If you want to enforce your way of life,
why not I enforce my way of life? Then where is my independence? You cannot
enforce your way of life. This is standard life.
Devotee: The neighbors around the farm, they like us.
Hari-sauri: Kirtanananda Maharaja was saying that we're very popular with
the neighbors there.
Prabhupada: That is good sign.
Devotee: One farmer called his tractor the Hare Rama tractor.
Prabhupada: (laughs) They are getting daily fresh vegetable, fresh milk.
It is very palatable.
Madhavananda: We wanted to have a cow here, but they won't allow one
within the city limits.
Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. The government is raksasa. So you
have to take charge of the government. First of all make propaganda, the
majority of population may (be) in favor of you. Then you'll get vote. This is
the easiest process. If majority people likes, that "These Krsna conscious men
are very nice," then you make a candidate -- "Vote for Krsna conscious person,
such and such." They'll vote. In this way, you'll capture the Senate, then
government, then President's office. It is very.... At least, there must be
majority of the people sympathizers of this movement. Then it will be
successful. So you do everything exemplified, and people will vote. But it is
difficult in this way, that "These people are prohibiting intoxication and
gambling. How we can live without this?" That is the difficulty. They cannot
imagine even that without these things one can live. Is it not?
Hari-sauri: It's a fact. If you stop them doing that, they'll have no
activity, just working.
Raksana: We should expand our New Bhakta program so that they can have
weekend stays in asramas, have practical experience.
Prabhupada: That they are coming.
Madhavananda: [break] ...of birds.
Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.
Hari-sauri: I saw a squirrel down there earlier on as well. Squirrels,
there was one just down there earlier on.
Prabhupada: Ideal. Let there be an ideal section, our people, our men.
And do your personal advancement. But that much.... If people come, it's all
right. Otherwise, we must make our own life successful.
Madhavananda: Once you wrote Gargamuni Swami in Nepal that even if they
will not listen, simply by your being there, even if they see you chant japa
sitting on a street corner, they will become Krsna conscious.
Jayadvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many
hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing
something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to
come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you
be here.
Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some
grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many
things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. [break] Industrial
civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is
approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.
Madhavananda: Already it's failing. They are making so many cars now, and
people aren't purchasing. In the newspaper, you see big pictures of huge miles
of lots of unsold cars. The whole motorcar business, industry, is going down.
Dhrstadyumna: They have another trick. Now they make them very cheap so
the cars will break down every year.
Prabhupada: But if I don't want it, either cheap or dear, who cares for
it? If I don't want that. There was a statement by some Pope that "If the crown
of England is offered to me at very cheap price, so why shall I accept it? What
shall I do with it?" That is the..., that if I don't want a car.... Suppose if
we advance our farming program, who will want the car? Theoretically, accept it,
that we shall remain in the farm. Then where is the necessity of car?
Madhavananda: Therefore the government will not like.
Prabhupada: Yes. The government does not like it now because we are not
going to eat meat, we are not accepting liquor, no gambling, no prostitution. So
the government is already concerned. Theoretically, suppose these things are
stopped, then where is the human civilization? Everything is finished. Because
they have no other alternative. We have got -- Krsna consciousness -- but they
haven't got.
Madhavananda: They become bored very easily. If they do not have all the
different material amusements, they become very bored and depressed.
Prabhupada: And we have got everything. We have got feasting, dancing,
chanting, philosophy, clean and spotless life.
Hari-sauri: Friendship, everything.
Prabhupada: Yes. No animal killing. We are not envious of anyone.
Madhavananda: People come to the temple, and they say that it is like
paradise here because there is no anxiety. Everyone is so happy and peaceful.
Prabhupada: So keep this standard. At least, people will be attracted;
they will appreciate it. Don't minimize this temple; keep it nicely.
Devotee: A boy said today it was like heaven on earth.
Prabhupada: Accha? That's nice.
Jayadvaita: The only place I found some difficulty is that sometimes if
there is some discrepancy in behavior of our students, some petty stealing or
something like that, then that is...
Prabhupada: That you have to train our men so that they may be well
behaved.
Jayadvaita: In Laguna Beach we had so many complaints, that they were
trying to stop the temple. And their main complaint was that the devotees were
taking flowers from people's gardens and without any permission, without any,
simply taking. And just on that account they wanted to stop us. Some petty
stealing, fifty dollars worth of flowers.
Prabhupada: So why our devotees should take flowers from them? Stop it.
Jayadvaita: Yes, I stopped it. Instead I sent a letter to the neighbors
that no one is taking flowers and we are planting a big garden. Now they've done
that, and the neighbors come and they appreciate that such a nice garden is
there, they remark.
Prabhupada: You can make them friends, that "Your flowers in the garden
will dry and fall down, so while it is fresh, if it is offered to God, and
you'll get benefit out of it, why you object?" Yes. That's a fact.
Jayadvaita: They'll do that, too.
Prabhupada: Yes, so convince them. They will be not enemy.
Hari-sauri: We used to tell them that in Melbourne, but they said "Leave
them alone 'cause we want to enjoy them." They said that they're in their
gardens for their own enjoyment.
Prabhupada: They have no idea that why the flowers are taken. It is not
for our enjoyment, for your enjoyment. When your flowers will be accepted by
Krsna, you'll be happy.
Jayadvaita: It's a little difficult to explain afterwards. Instead of
explaining before, that "Can we take," they would take and then explain.
Prabhupada: Yes, that you have to manage. That is preaching. What you'll
do? I have seen that garden. There are lemons, apples; they are rotting and
falling down. So while they can be used for Krsna's purpose, why don't you give
it? [break] ...too hot. At night, of course, it is not hot. They lie down in
open place like this on a cot. Very pleasing sleeping.
Madhavananda: This is their favorite place.
Prabhupada: All, they are living in the same tree?
Madhavananda: Yes. Seven of them.
Palika: These peacocks are very friendly here. They stay together. They
lay here altogether in the sun.
Prabhupada: Birds of the same feather flock together. (laughter)
Jayadvaita: By Ann Arbor temple there is one squirrel who comes to take
prasada from the devotees. He comes right up to them and takes some laddu or
something like that. Very fat squirrel.
Prabhupada: He knows that they'll not harm.
Jayadvaita: Yes.
Madhavananda: The neighbors say that every morning the peacocks wake them
up.
Passerby on a boat: Ahoy there!
Dhrstadyumna: Hare Krsna!
Madhavananda: What does ahoy mean?
Prabhupada: What they say?
Madhavananda: Ahoy.
Hari-sauri: It's a nautical form of greeting used by sailors.
Madhavananda: It's a greeting.
Prabhupada: They'll come gradually. In that way, it is a very important
place. There are so many people passing.
Madhavananda: Today I was speaking to our lawyer on the phone, and I said
we are very busy now, we're having a program here, our spiritual master is here.
He said, "Yes, I heard. Some of my friends were driving past in a boat, and they
saw three hundred devotees." So many respectable people come this way.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They are greeting, that means they are respectable
gentlemen. So make friendship with them.
Madhavananda: Yes, we can have a place here where they can stop and we
can serve prasada.
Prabhupada: No, that is our gateway?
Madhavananda: Place there. Serve prasada and preach.
Prabhupada: Yes, you invite them: "Come in, take prasada." So out of
inquisitiveness, they may come, and give them prasada, show them temple. In this
way.... Show them our books. Simply put there signboard, "Please come in and
take prasada." [break] ...and read our books, like that. The bird took a fish in
that way?
Madhavananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: And fell and flew away. How quickly they can take. Everyone
knows his business. That intelligence there everywhere. Ahara nidra bhayam
maithuni, for these things, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex and how
to defend, everyone knows. You do not require to educate them. Only they cannot
take to Krsna consciousness. That is only possible by the human beings.
Otherwise, other necessities of bodily, everyone knows. Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta
kovidah. Every morning, this place should be washed with water. Then it will be
very nice. Then we can sit down and chant all day and night, Hare Krsna. What is
the wrong there? Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Haridasa Thakura was
doing that. But don't imitate. But I mean to say, if you do that, where is the
problem? [break] ...I think you can acquire some land through the government for
agriculture and cow protection. There are so many, so much vacant land. I think
they will accept community proposal. Sometimes invite some important government
officials; let them see what you are doing.
Hari-sauri: Hmm. Like that congressman the other day.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: He was very impressed.
Prabhupada: Very much impressed. He's friendly, you can invite him again.
He can introduce a law; he's a law officer. [break] ...charges. They may not
think they will charge. And some pictures from our books. Signboard, book and
pictures. There are some painters here? No painters? Well, there are so many
painters. You can bring from Los Angeles.
Madhavananda: Yes, I was thinking.
Raksana: Radhavallabha can set up like Mayapura. They're all waterproofed
and everything else there.
Prabhupada: Give them one big room.
Madhavananda: I was thinking to ask Bharadvaja to come, because he...
Prabhupada: He's busy there, but somebody may go there and learn from
Bharadvaja how to make dolls and prepare it here. One room. There are so many
big, big rooms.
Madhavananda: Yes, I was thinking.
Prabhupada: Make diorama. People will come to see.
Madhavananda: They like those things very much.
Prabhupada: Instead of so-called library, reception, you make doll room.
These big, big rooms. All big glass case...
Madhavananda: Yes. They would like that very much.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhavananda: Because already this is like a historic museum.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhavananda: It's so beautiful.
Prabhupada: Yes. So in big glass case.... One girl saw me in Los Angeles.
No? Hawaii.
Hari-sauri: Candranibha?
Prabhupada: So she's not getting facility in Hawaii. She can come here
with two, three assistants. There is so much place here. So correspond with...
Madhavananda: Hawaii.
Prabhupada: Yes. Or ask our Govinda dasi. Write one letter to Govinda
dasi, I'll sign, that "You can come with your assistants. Here is a very good
scope for doll making and exhibit. And the place is very nice. You'll like." So
many other girls they can also learn. Doll making is very easy. It is not
difficult.
Madhavananda: We have good facility here for it.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. The clay is soft here?
Madhavananda: Well, usually they purchase clay, don't they? Bharadvaja's?
Usually they purchase art clay in America.
Prabhupada: Oh. Fuller's earth. That is wanted, Fuller's earth.
Madhavananda: Actually the previous owner of this house, he wanted to
make this a restaurant, a very posh restaurant on the waterfront, and he applied
for many, many months to get permission from the city. And finally he got it. So
actually we have restaurant status here. It would be very easy for us to start a
restaurant. People would come.... When people see the house, they are so amazed.
Hari-sauri: That would be a big attraction -- a waterside restaurant.
Prabhupada: Hmm, yes.
Madhavananda: We could have tables and chairs on the grounds.
Prabhupada: No, we are not going to do that. Better make it a doll
exhibition. And give them prasada free. Restaurant in the city, that is all
right. Not here. Nobody will come to the restaurant from the city. That is not
possible. But we give them free prasada. (japa) [break]
Makhanlal: ...Prabhupada, you mentioned that soon there will not be so
much use for automobiles. What will be our means of spreading the sankirtana
movement?
Prabhupada: We shall walk. You'll have good exercise. (laughter)
Makhanlal: By oxcart also?
Prabhupada: If possible; if not, walk. What is that?
Hari-sauri: Maybe we can develop some mystic opulence and walk on the
water.
Prabhupada: Here, in this world, everything has got six changes. Birth,
then stay, and then develop, then by-products, then dwindle, then finish.
Everything. So the motorcar civilization, it was born. And now the time has come
it is dwindling, and it will be finished. Just like railway; railway no more
interested, anybody. But when it was invented, it was very important. Now it is
useless. That is the nature of everything here in this material world. It cannot
be permanent benefit. That they do not know. They become very enthusiastic when
some new thing is born. Child is born, I am very happy. The same child, when
he's dead, I am unhappy. But one must know: what is born, it will die. So
everything material has got a period of development, then it dwindles, and then
finishes. So from this nature's law, we can see this motorcar attraction,
utility, it will finish. It will not stay.
Madhavananda: Now everyone wants to travel by air. In some large cities,
the airports are so crowded, there is so much traffic overhead, that now they
have to develop means of...
Prabhupada: All accident takes place while coming down. Or while going
up. On the sky there is no danger.
Devotee: They call it traffic control system in the sky. Just like there
is traffic on the road, they call it the traffic control system. They have so
much traffic in the air.
Prabhupada: What they control?
Hari-sauri: They keep them flying around the airport until there's room
for them to come in.
Prabhupada: That already they are doing. When there is no space, they
send news, that "Don't come down." So they come like this.
Devotee: They have been known to hit in the air.
Madhavananda: Maya-sukhaya.
Prabhupada: So the airport is also becoming a problem.
Hari-sauri: Everything's a problem without Krsna.
Dhrstadyumna: When we are traveling on the road we see so much land not
used. And we think "Why not take everyone out of the factories, let them plant
fruit and flower trees along the roads all over the country and build beautiful
ponds. So everyone can bathe when they walk, for refreshment." Just like in
Caitanya-caritamrta. I think Nrsimha Brahmacari, he was building a road for Lord
Caitanya, very nicely.
Prabhupada: No, they will create slaughterhouse, brothel, then liquor
shop, gambling house. That's all.
Madhavananda: This is our biggest book distributor of the
men-Panca-tattva dasa. One day in the airport he distributed three hundred
Srimad-Bhagavatams in one day. That is the record.
Prabhupada: Hardbound Srimad-Bhagavatam?
Panca-tattva: Yes.
Prabhupada: How did you sell so many? Unless you have got supernatural
power.
Madhavananda: Krsna empowered him.
Prabhupada: Actually, it is not.... It is uncommon.
Madhavananda: Many amazing things happen when we are distributing books.
People come up to us, and they say, "No, I will not take your book. I will tell
you now that I will not take your book. If you want me to read your book, then I
will read it, but I will not give you any money." And we say, "All right, please
read it, please read the book and tell us what you think." And they say "All
right." And we say "Oh, please give a donation." And they say, "No, I cannot
give a donation." And we say, "All right, but please read the book." He says:
"All right." "Oh, and give a donation." And they say, "All right, I'll give a
donation." (laughter)
Prabhupada: And you give the book?
Madhavananda: Yes. It is like magic. Krsna is trying to help them also.
Dhrstadyumna: One big lawyer, he is fighting us for not going to the
airports. He is working for the airlines. So he was going on a pleasure trip to
Las Vegas from New York. So his friend gave him five dollars and said, "When you
come to a good charity, give this -- it will give you good luck." So he took the
five dollars, got on the plane, went to Las Vegas, gets off the plane, goes into
the terminal, and a young man comes up to him, says, "We are doing very good
work. Please give a donation." He said, "Oh, my friend has given me five
dollars, so here is a good cause." Gives the five dollars to the boy, he said:
"Oh, here, take this book also." So he, "All right." He goes and sits in the
car, opens the book, he said, "Oh, no! It is the Hare Krsnas! I have been
tricked." This story was told by Tamala Krsna Maharaja's parents. Their friend
was the lawyer. So Krsna is benedicting everyone, even the enemies. [break]
Madhavananda: Sometimes the karmi salesmen, they stand around to watch us
distribute books. Because they are so amazed at our techniques of sale and
distribution, they want to learn.
Jayadvaita: They become very respectful. They don't know anything about
our philosophy, but they see how nicely we...
Prabhupada: Good salesmen.
Madhavananda: Yes. And sometimes they even offer jobs to the devotee,
that "You come and work for me. You will be salesman for my..."
Prabhupada: "And what nonsense book you have got? (laughter) We are going
to stop your sales." Tell them. "And we are going to stop your sales. Instead of
helping you for selling your books, we are going to stop all these nonsense
books. That is our mission." Tad vayasam tirtham. That is explained in the
Srimad-Bhagavatam. Na yad vacas citra-padam harer yaso jagat-pavitram pragrnita
karhicit, tad vayasam tirtham usanti manasah [SB 1.5.10]. That verse, that
however nicely it is written with..., what is called, metaphor, poetic ornaments
and very good language, grammatical set-up, and so on, so on. So that, although
it is very nicely written from literary point of view, but because it does not
contain any glorification of Krsna, it is just like the spot where the crows
take pleasure. Crows. The crows means they go the nasty place where all nasty
things are thrown. They take pleasure there. So all these other literatures,
they are meant for the crows. And this literature is meant for the swan,
paramahamsa, white swans. So it is not the bodily color. It means those who are
advanced in their development of life, consciousness, it is meant for them. It
is not for the crows, who are still eating all nasty things in the garbage.
Crows, they do that. They take pleasure where there are garbage, all nasty
things and.... And the big swans, they will like water like this, garden like
this. That is.... Even in the lower animals, there is difference between the
crow's society and swan's society. (police car sounds) What is this?
Madhavananda: Police car.
Prabhupada: Oh? Police cars very often visit this quarter?
Madhavananda: No.
Hari-sauri: Srila Prabhupada? It's nine o'clock.
Prabhupada: It may be ten o'clock. (laughter) What is the difference when
here and there? (Prabhupada laughs) Just like a blind man, he's sleeping, now
his son is getting, "Please rise, it is now morning." So he said, "For me,
morning and evening is the same thing. I am blind." Keba ratra keba din. "For
me, there is no difference between day and night, because I cannot see
anything."
Raksana: Because you see only Krsna all the time, Srila Prabhupada, it
doesn't matter whether you're in the room or in the garden.
Prabhupada: So you want to see something other than, better than
Krsna?
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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