"God Has No Body Like Ours"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.1-3
March 28, 1968, San Francisco



Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Prabhupada: You read from the third chapter. [break]

Upendra: ...concerning "Description of Incarnations of Godhead." Translation: "Suta said, In the beginning of the creation the Lord first of all expanded Himself in the universal form of purusa incarnation primarily with all the ingredients of material creation. And thus at first there was the creation of the sixteen principles of material action. This was on the intention of creating the material universe." Purport. "As it is said in the Bhagavad-gita that the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna maintains this material universes by extending His part of plenary expansions, so this purusa Form is the confirmation of the same principle. The Original Personality of Godhead Vasudeva or Lord Krsna who is famous as the son of King Vasudeva or King Nanda, the very same Personality of Godhead is full with all opulences, all potencies, all fames, all beauties, all knowledge and all renunciations. Part of His opulences is manifested as impersonal Brahman and part of His opulences is manifested as Paramatma. This purusa feature of the same Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna is the original Paramatma manifestation of the Lord. There are three purusa features in the matter of material creation and this form who is known as the Karanodakasayi Visnu is the first of the three. The others are known as the Garbhodakasayi Visnu and the Ksirodakasayi Visnu which we shall know one after another."

Prabhupada: These Visnu, Karanodakasayi, Garbhodakasayi, and Ksirodakasayi, these are little technical. Try to understand. Now this universe, which you find just like a big ball, there are innumerable universes like this, and they are floating in water. That water is called Causal Ocean. So that Causal Ocean there is, I mean to say, completely in the whole ocean, big gigantic body is lying down there. That is known as Karanodakasayi Visnu. The Visnu in that gigantic form is sleeping within the water of that Causal Ocean, and by His inhaling and exhaling, breathing, there are bubbles. And those bubbles are manifested as universes. This is stated in Brahma-samhita: yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah [Bs. 5.48]. That breathing, exhaling and inhaling... Just like we also do that. So we have inherited that exhaling-inhaling, from that Visnu.

So how these brahmandas or universes, each of them has a predominate deity? He is called Brahma. Brahmanda, the master of this brahmanda is called Brahma. The duration of this Brahma, duration of life, is only the inhaling and exhaling period of Maha-Visnu. When He's exhaling, all the brahmandas are coming in existence. And when He's inhaling, they're all vanquished. This process is going on. And the Supreme Person who is doing this, I mean to say, creation and dissolution, He is called Maha-Visnu. Visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-viseso govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. So the reference is in the Brahma-samhita that that Maha-Visnu is also part and parcel of Govinda, Krsna. Just try to understand what is Krsna. Then? Go on.

Upendra: "The innumerable universes are generated from skinholes of this Karanodakasayi Visnu, and in each one of the universes the Lord enters as Garbhodakasayi Visnu."

Prabhupada: Again, after creation of the universes, He enters each and every universe. This universe is filled with water, half. What you are seeing, that is half only. And half is filled with water. In that water Visnu again lying, expanding. This is Visnu's power. He can expand in innumerable identities. That is also confirmed in the Brahma-samhita. Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam [Bs 5.33]. Ananta means unlimited, and rupa means forms. He's expanding in unlimited number of forms. We are also expansion of His form. These jivas, the living entities... He is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Visnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion is separated from Him. That separated from Him we are.

We living entities, we are also vibhinnamsa. We are also part and parcel, but we are separated. Therefore we haven't got the full potency of God. We have got potencies of God. The six potencies, namely opulence, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, we have also got these in minute quantity. Whatever we see here, the richest man in the world, that is only minute particle of the richness of God. Because we are part and parcel, minute part and parcel. Therefore we have got all the opulences in minute form. Just like gold and a minute particle of gold. Chemically analyze the small particle of gold has got all the composition as the original big gold. A drop of sea water... Chemically, a drop of sea water has got all the composition as the big sea water. Similarly, we have got all the qualities of God, but in minute quantity. That is the difference between God and ourselves. Or in other words, you can study God also by studying yourself. Whatever propensities you have got, that is also there in God. Everything. Otherwise wherefrom it comes? Because I am part and parcel, if I have got all these propensities, naturally, in full and without any inebriety, those things are present in God.

Take for example our love, what you call love. Of course, it is perverted reflection of love. Several times I've repeated. In this material world there is nothing like love. It is only, everything perverted reflection of love. Just like you have got affection for children. That is there also, but that is without any inebrieties. Here also the same man and woman, male and female, there is attraction between one another. Similarly there is also, Radha-Krsna. But there is no inebriety. That is full and that is perfect. Here it is imperfect due to material contamination.

So everything, whatever we have got, Krsna has also got that thing. But in Krsna it is in perfection; in us, in our conditional state of life, it is imperfect. So if we dovetail ourselves with Krsna, then our..., all these propensities become perfect. The same example as I have given repeatedly, that a car is running at seventy-mile speed, a cyclist catches the car, he also runs in seventy-miles speed, although the cycle hasn't got such speed. Similarly, although we are minute particle of God, if we dovetail ourselves with the consciousness of God, or Krsna consciousness, then we become equally spirit. This is the technique. Go on.
Upendra: "In the Bhagavad-gita this is also mentioned that the material world is created at certain intervals and then again it is destroyed. This creation and destruction is done by the Supreme will on account of the conditioned souls or the nitya-baddha living beings."

Prabhupada: Nitya-baddha. This word is also technical. Nitya-baddha means ever-conditioned. There are nitya-muktas. Nitya-mukta means ever-liberated. In the spiritual world, there are also innumerable living entities. The... This material world is only one-fourth manifestation of Krsna's energy, God's energy. And the three-fourths energy is manifested in the spiritual world. So we can just imagine that in one-fourth manifestation of energy of the Lord, we are so many living entities which is impossible to count. Now you can imagine how many more living entities are there. But here we are conditioned and they are liberated. Those who are conditioned, they are called nitya-baddha, ever-conditioned. Nitya-baddha means we do not know when our, this conditional stage has begun. It is impossible to trace out the history. But we are conditioned. There is no doubt about it. Conditioned means no freedom. No freedom. As spirit soul we are free. Sarva-ga, we can go everywhere, anywhere. Even those who get some mystic powers by perfection of yoga practice, they can also exhibit some powers. So why? As we become free from material conditions, our original freedom comes.

So one of the qualification of the spirit soul is sarva-ga. Sarva-ga means he can go anywhere and everywhere. But because we are conditional stage, we are trying so much to go to the moon planet, we cannot go. But Narada, because he is free, he has got full spiritual body, he can go anywhere he likes. Go on.

Upendra: "The nitya-baddha or the eternally conditioned souls have the sense of individuality or ahankara which dictates them for sense enjoyment which they are unable to have constitutionally. The Lord is the only enjoyer and all others are enjoyed. The living beings are predominated enjoyer. But the eternally conditioned souls forgetful of this constitutional position have strong aspiration for enjoying. This chance of enjoying the matter is given to the conditioned souls in the material world and side by side they are given the chance of understanding the real constitutional position. Those fortunate living entities who catch up the truth and surrender unto the Lotus feet of Vasudeva after many many births in the material world, become one of the eternally liberated souls and thus are allowed to enter into the kingdom of Godhead. After..."

Prabhupada: We can also become one of them, eternally liberated. But we are not admitted in the spiritual kingdom unless we have given up this false sense of lording it over the material nature. Here, the conditioned souls, everyone is trying to become the lord, imitating. Everyone is trying. But there is clash. You are trying to become lord, I am trying to become lord. Therefore there is clash. And in the spiritual world the Lord is one and there is no competition of lording it over. Therefore in the spiritual world everything is unconditioned, freedom. Yes, go on.

Upendra: "After this such fortunate living entities have no more to come within the occasional material creation. But those who can not catch up the constitutional truth are again kept merged into the mahat-tattva at the time of annihilation of the material creation. When the creation is again set up this mahat-tattva is again let loose and this mahat-tattva contains all the ingredients of material manifestations including the conditioned souls. Primarily this mahat-tattva is divided into sixteen parts namely the five gross material elements and the eleven working instruments or senses."

Prabhupada: Five elements means the sky, air, then fire, water, and earth. And five senses acquiring knowledge, just like eyes, ear, tongue, smelling. We are acquiring knowledge by these... And working five senses, hands, legs, the genital, and in this way there are five working senses and five knowledge acquiring senses, and mind is the center. Therefore eleven. Eleven plus five elements equal to sixteen. Go on.

Upendra: "It is like the cloud in the clear sky. In the spiritual sky, the effulgence of Brahman is spread all round and the whole system is dazzling in spiritual light. The mahat-tattva is assembled in some corner of the that vast unlimited spiritual sky and the part which is thus covered by the mahat-tattva is called the material sky."

Prabhupada: This is also very important. The sky is one. Just like we can experience the sky, and suppose the sky on San Francisco is overcast with cloud. We say that then we are covered in cloud. Practically this San Francisco sky is only a fragmental portion of the whole sky. Similarly, the real sky is that spiritual sky, paravyoma. When that paravyoma partially is clouded with mahat-tattva, that is called material world. This is the position of material world. Material world is also existing in the spiritual world, but it is covered and in a fragmental segment. Yes.

Upendra: "This part of the spiritual sky, called the mahat-tattva, is only an insignificant portion of the whole spiritual sky, and within this mahat-tattva there are innumerable universes. All these universes collectively is produced by the Karanarnavasayi Visnu called also the Maha-Visnu who simply throws His glance only to impregnate the material sky to manifest." Text 2. Translation: "Another plenary part of the purusa is lying down within the water of the universe from the navel lake of His body which has sprouted the lotus stem (which is the body of the universe) and on the top, from the lotus flower Brahma the master of all engineers of the universe, is generated." Purport: "The First purusa is the Karanodakasayi Visnu. From the skinholes of Him innumerable universes have sprung up. In each and every one of them the purusa enters as the Garbhodakasayi Visnu. He is lying in half portion of the universe full with water of His body. And from the navel of Garbhodakasayi Visnu has sprung up the stem of the lotus flower the birth place of Brahma who is the father of all living beings and the master of all the demigod engineers engaged in the matter of perfect design and working of the universal order. Within the stem of the lotus there are fourteen divisions of planetary system and the earthly planets are situated in the middle. Upwards there are other better planetary systems and the topmost system is called Brahmaloka or the Satyaloka. Downwards the earthly planetary system there are seven downwards planetary systems domiciled by the asuras and similar other most materialistic living beings. From this Garbhodakasayi Visnu there is expansion of the Ksirodakasayi Visnu who is the collective Paramatma of all living beings. He is called Hari and from Him all incarnations within the universe are expanded.

Prabhupada: Yes. This Garbhodakasayi Visnu is the father of Brahma who has created all these innumerable planets. And in one of the planets there is Ksirodakasayi Visnu. In that planet the ocean is of milk. There are different kinds of ocean, as we get information from Vedic literature. As we have got here the ocean of water, similarly there is ocean of milk, there is ocean of oil, there is... Just like you have got oil within earth, similarly in those planets there are oil ocean, milk ocean. So there is one planet within this universe which has got ocean of milk. And in that milk ocean there is another Visnu, who is called Ksirodakasayi Visnu. Ksira means milk and udaka means water. Go on.

Upendra: "Therefore, the conclusion is that the purusa-avatara is manifested in three features namely first the Karanodakasayi who creates aggregate material ingredients in the mahat-tattva, second the Garbhodakasayi Who enters in each and every universe and third the Ksirodakasayi Visnu Who is the Paramatma of every material object organic or inorganic."

Prabhupada: This Ksirodakasayi Visnu is in everyone's heart. He is also sitting with me in the heart. I, as spirit soul, I am sitting there, and Ksirodakasayi Visnu as Paramatma, as guiding Supersoul, He is also sitting in the same position. One is... It is stated in the Upanisad that two birds are sitting in one tree. One bird is eating the fruit and the other bird is simply witnessing. So Ksirodakasayi Visnu as Paramatma, He is witnessing the activities of the individual soul. And according to the activities of the individual soul, He is getting the necessary result. He is witness. In the Bhagavad-gita also it is confirmed, anumanta and upadrasta. Upadrasta means witness. Suppose you are doing something. I have nothing to do with your activities, but I can see..., I am seeing what you are doing. So He is upadrasta. And anumanta. Anumanta means the individual soul cannot do anything without the sanction of the Supersoul. Either you may do something good or bad, but it has to be taken sanction from the Supersoul.

Just like there is a English version, that "Not a grass moves without the sanction of God." So without sanction of God, we cannot do anything. You may say that when we do something bad, why God gives us sanction? God does not give us sanction, but we force Him to give us sanction. Therefore He gives us sanction. Otherwise, He does not give sanction. But because we want to do it persistently, so God gives us sanction: "All right. You can do it. And you have to enjoy or suffer the result." Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita, the last instruction is that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Don't try to do according to your whims. You just surrender unto Me. Abide by Me. Then I shall give you all protection. But if you want to do according to your own whims, and if you do not hear Me, what can I do? You do that and enjoy the result."

Suppose a foolish boy is trying to touch fire. Father says, "Don't do it." In spite of that, if the foolish boy does it, his hand is burned. So father is not responsible. He says, "Don't do it." But the child does it out of ignorance and suffers. Similarly the sanction of God is there as we persist on it. "I want this. I want this." As a child sometimes cries and the mother is obliged to sanction, similarly, God is very kind. If we persist on doing something, He gives us sanction. But the result you have to suffer or enjoy. Go on.

Upendra: "One who knows these plenary features of the Personality of Godhead knows also Him (Godhead) properly and thus the knower becomes freed from the material conditions of birth, death, old age and diseases as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita. In this sloka the subject matter of Maha-Visnu is summarized. The Maha-Visnu lies down in some part of the spiritual sky by His own free will and thus He does lie on the ocean of karana from where He glances over His material nature and the mahat-tattva is at once created. Thus electrified by the power of the Lord the material nature creates at once innumerable universes just like in due course a tree is decorated with innumerable grown up fruits all at a time. The seed of the tree is sown by the cultivator and the tree or creeper in due course becomes manifested with so many fruits. Nothing can take place without a cause. The karana ocean is therefore called the Causal Ocean. Karana means causal. We should not foolishly accept the theory of creation by the atheist without any cause. The description of such atheists is given in the Bhagavad-gita. The atheist does not believe in the creator neither he can give any good explanation of the theory of creation. Material nature has no power to create..."

Prabhupada: The atheist class of men, they do not agree to accept that this material world is created by God. They give some reason of their own way of thinking, and most of the arguments are "perhaps like this, perhaps like this, perhaps like this." What is this nonsense, "perhaps"? Is that science? "Perhaps"? So they have no sufficient reason that there is no creator. In everything, we find there is a creator. Anything you take. Take for example this table. There is a creator. Somebody has manufactured it. Or this microphone, somebody has created it. Anything you take, you have to find out some creator. And such a vast, gigantic thing, going on so nicely and punctually... The sun is rising punctually, the moon is rising punctually, the fortnight is going on, the season is coming punctually -- everything. Why there should be no creator or no superintendent? That answer is there in the Bhagavad-gita. Mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. "Under My superintendence." So if you accept this, then the whole problem is solved. But if we don't accept it, then we have to speculate. But we never to come to the right conclusion, how this creation began. That is not possible to understand by such way. Go on.

Upendra: "Material nature has no power to create without the power of the purusa as much as a prakrti or woman cannot produce any child without the connection of a purusa. The purusa impregnates and the prakrti delivers. We should not expect milk from the fleshy bags in the neck of the goat although they look like breastly nipples. Similarly we should not expect any creative power from the material ingredients. We must believe in the power of the purusa who impregnates the prakrti or nature. And because the Lord wished for lying down in meditation the material energy created innumerable universes also at once and in each of them the Lord lay Himself down, and thus all the planets and the different paraphernalia was created at once by the will of the Lord. The Lord has unlimited potencies and as such He can perform as He likes in perfect planning although personally He has nothing to do and no body is greater or equal to Him."

Prabhupada: In the Bible also it is said, "God said ‘Let there be creation,' and there was creation." That means God is the origin of creation. Yes. Go on.

Upendra: "That is the verdict of Veda." Text 3. Translation: "It is conceived that all the universal planetary system are situated on the extensive bodily features of the purusa but He has nothing to do with the created material ingredients."

Prabhupada: This is universal form of the Lord, virat-purusa. Here is also. This is more or less imaginary. But virat-purusa... Just like Arjuna was shown the virat-purusa, universal form. That is not eternal. That was causal or temporary; for the time being it was shown to Arjuna.

Upendra: "His body is eternally in spiritual existence par excellence." Purport: "The conception of virad-rupa or visva-rupa of the Supreme Absolute Truth is specially meant for the neophyte materialist who can hardly think of the transcendental form of the personality of Godhead. To them a form means something of this material world and as such an opposite conception of the absolute is necessary for them in the beginning to concentrate their mind in the power extension of the Lord. As stated above the Lord extends His potency in the form of mahat-tattva which includes all material ingredients. The extension of power by the Lord and the Lord Himself personally are one in one sense but at the same time the mahat-tattva is different also from the Lord. Therefore the potency of the Lord and the Lord are non-different. The conception of the virad-rupa specially for impersonalist is thus non different from the eternal Form of the Lord. This eternal form of the Lord exists prior to the creation of the mahat-tattva and it is stressed here that the eternal Form of the Lord..."

Prabhupada: Just like in the Bible it is said "God said, ‘Let there be creation.' " That means before the creation, before this material creation, God was there. And the material... There was nothing material. Therefore, God's body cannot be material, because He existed before the creation of matter. So before creation of matter, there was nothing like matter, though God was there. Therefore conclusion is that God has no material body. He spoke, "Let there be creation." "He spoke" means He's a person; otherwise how He can speak? But His personality is not material, because when He spoke there was no material creation.

Therefore the persons with less intelligence, they cannot understand that God's body is not matter. They think that anything has got a body is matter; but that is not the case. The real thing is that God has got body, but not material body. And it is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita that isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. His body is eternal, full of bliss and full of knowledge. Just opposite. You have got this body which is neither eternal, nor full of bliss, nor full of knowledge. This body is full of ignorance and full of miseries and temporary. Therefore God hasn't got a body like this. When in the Vedic literature it is said that God has no body, that does not mean that He has no body. He has no body like this body, material body. Apani-pado javana grhita. The Vedic literature says like this, that God has no leg, no hand. Therefore the impersonalists take advantage of it. "Oh, here it is stated God has no legs, no hands." But the next line is, javana grhita: "He can accept everything which you offer Him in devotion."

Now how He can accept? If He has no hand, how He can accept things from us? That means He hasn't got a hand like us. His hand is different. Therefore even though He is situated in the spiritual world, which is far, far away from us, still, He says in the Bhagavad-gita, it is said,

patram puspam phalam toyam
yo me bhaktya prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam
asnami prayatatmanah

Krsna says that "A little flower or little water or a little leaf, whatever My devotee offers Me in love and devotion, I accept it." And tad aham bhakty-upahrtam. "And because he has brought it with great devotion, therefore I eat." Tad aham bhakty-upahrtam asnami. Asnami means "I eat." Now you can say, "All right, I'll offer these fruits and flower to God, but it is the same. It is remaining. How He is eating?" But His eating is not like my eating, because He hasn't got a body like this. This body is material. If you bring me a plate of fruits, this body immediately swallows it. But He has got spiritual body. He eats... Simply as soon as He knows that you have offered it in devotion, He eats immediately.

So these are, I mean to say, technical of understanding, and we can know it from Vedic literatures. Just like in the Vedas it is said, purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate. We cannot imagine. Purnam means full. If you take full from the full, still the balance is full. That is the spiritual calculation. Just like if you have got hundred dollars and I take hundred dollars from you. Still, you have got hundred dollars. This is beyond material conception. Here, one minus one equal to zero, and in the spiritual world, one minus one equal to one. Here one plus one equal to two. And in the spiritual world one plus one equal to one. So these things are very subtle. As we make progress in spiritual understanding... Just like how Krsna can eat from such a distant place? No. Krsna is everywhere. He's within you. So His eating process is different, because His body is spiritual. Purnasya purnam adaya. He can take the whole thing; still, one minus one equal to one. Still, the... Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate. What is your question?

Visnujana: I was going to ask if the rose-colored light that we see around the food when it's being offered up...

Prabhupada: You can ask after we have finished all these things. Not within the lecture you cannot ask. What is that?

Upendra: "...the eternal form of the Lord is par excellence spiritual or transcendental to the modes of material nature. The very same transcendental form of the Lord is manifested by His internal potency and the formation of His multifarious manifestation of incarnations are always of the same transcendental quality without any touch of the mahat-tattva." Text number 4.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Now what is your question?

Visnujana: We offered food up one time to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Some fruit?

Visnujana: Yes, fruit, to Krsna. And while we were offering it up, when we raised our head we looked at the food and we saw a rose-colored light that was vibrating all around the food. Is this how He eats?

Prabhupada: (pause) He eats. How He eats, that you can understand when you make advancement to that stage. He eats. For the time being, you just take it for granted that He eats. How He eats, that is not possible because you cannot see Him. And how can you see that how He is eating? So that requires spiritual vision, and we shall understand. But He eats, we take it. Because in the Bhagavad-gita He says that "I eat." Asnami. Asnami means "I eat." (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.1-3 -- San Francisco, March 28, 1968