"Immortality...or Itching"

"Immortality...or Itching"

75/02/15 Mexico City, Bhagavad-gita 2.15



Prabhupada: (translated into Spanish by Hrdayananda throughout)

yam hi na vyathayanty ete
purusam purusarsabha
sama-duhkha-sukham dhiram
so 'mrtatvaya kalpate
[Bg. 2.15]

So we have been discussing for the last four days about the constitutional position of the soul. First thing, we have discussed that the living being... This body is not the living being, but the living being is within the body. Just like the motorcar is not the driver; the driver is within the motorcar. Now, that driver, or the soul, within the body is immortal. And it is transmigrating from one body to another. So this transmigration from one body to another is not very good business. Just like if you are living in some apartment and you have to change immediately for another, immediately for another, do you not get disgusted? Naturally we desire that "If I get some permanent apartment, it is very good." Actually we want that. Nobody wants to die. Even a person or living being in the most wretched condition of life, if you propose that "Let me kill you," he'll not agree. Therefore the psychology is that every living being does not want to die. So, but actually we are not subject to death or birth. That will be discussed. We have somehow or other, by chance or by coincidence, we have acquired this material body. Actually it is not by chance, but we wanted to lord it over the material world, therefore we have got this material body.

So everyone in this material world, either human being or animals, or birds and beast, is trying to be the lord of the universe. Therefore, if we actually want relief from this constant change of transmigration, then we must prepare for that. We have already discussed that we can get our next life as we prepare for it. If I like, I can go to the higher planetary system; if I like, I can go to the lower planetary system; if I like, you can go to the beastly life or godly life. As I desire, I'll get. The Lord is situated in my heart and in your heart, and He is working... He's staying. He hasn't got to work. He's staying to see my activities. And He also understands what is my desire. Accordingly, He offers a machine. This is a machine. It is said, yantrarudhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. Yantra means machine. So just like in our car we can travel here and there, similarly, on this machine of body we can go anywhere.

So as human being, we should know that "Why I am wandering in so many places, in so many species of life and in so many planets? Why? Can it not be stopped for a permanent life?" This should be the consideration. Therefore Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says,

ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija
[Cc. Madhya 19.151]

The living entity in this way wandering in different species of life in different planetary platform, and therefore this is very disgusting, so if one is fortunate, then he comes in contact with a devotee. This Krsna consciousness movement is meant for giving this opportunity to everyone. We are opening centers all over the world, inviting people to "Come in our place. Understand the philosophy. We have got so many books. And try to save yourself from this botheration of repetition of birth and death." In order to execute to this business, apparently there is little difficulty. Just like we prescribe to our members, "No intoxication." So no intoxication... One who is habituated to drink, to smoke, to drink coffee, tea, etc., he feels some discomfort. Similarly, we say, "No meat-eating." So those who are meat-eaters, they will find little difficulty to give up this habit. Similarly, we say, "No illicit sex," but one who is habituated for this illicit sex life, he feels some difficulty. So there are so many things. In the beginning it appears to be little difficult. Actually it is not difficult, but because we are habituated, we feel difficulty. So if you are actually anxious and serious to stop this repetition of birth and death, then we must take to Krsna consciousness, because without Krsna consciousness nobody can stop the repetition of birth and death. Therefore Krsna advises in this verse that "Accept this little difficulty." Actually there is no difficulty, but because we are practiced, in the beginning we find little difficulty. Therefore here Krsna says, yam hi na vyathayanty ete: "All these so-called difficulties, if they do not bother or give some pain to a person..." Yam... All these difficulties... Just like I am feeling difficulty. I am habituated to smoke. Now I am forbidden, "Not to smoke." So I am feeling difficulty. So therefore Krsna said, "Although it is not difficulty, but although one feels difficulty -- still he sticks to the principle -- then he becomes fit for going back to home, back to Godhead." So indriyani pramathini, in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find. Our senses are very strong, like mad snakes. There is some statement in Vedic literature, indriya-kala-sarpa-patali. Indriya, the senses, are just like dreadful snakes. But there is a means to subdue the snake. It is said, indriya-kala-sarpa-patali protkhata-damstrayate, means the snake may be very dangerous, but somehow or other, if you take out its poison teeth, then it is no more dangerous." The snake is dangerous on account of the poison teeth. So if, somehow or other, the poison teeth extricated, then the snake is no more dangerous. So our strong senses, snakelike senses, can be bereft of the poison teeth by accepting Krsna consciousness.

So the simple method offered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is this chanting Hare Krsna mantra. He says personally, ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], means "By chanting Hare Krsna mantra your heart will be cleansed, and as soon as your heart is cleansed, you can feel everything in its proper order." So when the heart is cleansed we can understand our real position and how we are suffering and how to take steps against this suffering. This is called bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam, extinguishing the blazing fire of material existence. In this verse it is mentioned again, dhira. Dhira means very sober. In the beginning Krsna said, dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dhira means one who is sober. He is not bewildered. So dhira means that although there is cause of disturbance, one is not disturbed. Although there is cigarette, but I should promise, "I shall not smoke." Although there is facility for illicit sex, I'll not do it. That is called dhira. Dhira means the cause of agitation or disturbance is present there, but one is not disturbed. So in order to advance in spiritual life we have to become dhira. And that is said here, sama-duhkha-sukham dhiram. As soon as one become dhira, sober, these so-called material pains and pleasure does not disturb me (him). Then he is fit for becoming immortal. Everyone is immortal, but he is fallen in such material condition that he thinks himself as mortal. Because I am spirit soul, therefore the Vedic injunction that feel:(?) aham brahmasmi, so 'ham, means "I am as good as the Supreme Being," means "He is eternal; I am also eternal. He is also living being; I am also living being." That means qualitatively we are one, God and me. But quantitatively, He is great; we are small.

So we have to realize this, that we can become eternal, immortal, all qualified like God, if we get out of these material clutches. And for this, we have to become dhira. Dhira means, I have already explained, not to be disturbed, even the cause of disturbance is there. So that is the qualification of becoming immortal. So little tolerance of the sensation... Just like there is some sensation. If you have got some itches and you are feeling that "I should itch," but if you stop itching, this will be cured, and if you go on itching, it will increase. So itching... Anyone who has got some experience of itching... Itching is very pleasing at the time of itching, but next time it is not very pleasing. It has created so many disturbing condition. Therefore sastra says that we should try to control the itching of our senses. Then he is dhira. And as soon as you become dhira, you are the first-class candidate for going back to home, back to Godhead. So there is method; there is practice; there is process. If you like, you can adopt them -- actually there is no difficulty -- and solve all the problems of your life. This is Krsna consciousness movement. Try to understand and adopt it. Now any question?

Hrdayananda: (translating) He says that if we are originally in the spiritual world and full of knowledge, how can we try to lord it over, or, in other words, how can we try to do something which actually cannot be done? And if we are originally full of pleasure, then why would we accept an inferior position?

Prabhupada: That I have already explained, that although you have got the God's qualities, but you are very small. Just like a big fire and the sparks of the fire, similarly, God is big fire, and we are like sparks of the fire. When the sparks come down from the fire, it becomes extinguished. So because we are very small, very... I have already given you the dimension. As soon as we become out of the big fire, in touch with God, then we become extinguished. So somehow or other, if you are, again go to the fire, you have your original, brightened, I mean, illuminating quality, the spark. So at the present moment, somehow or other, being fallen in this material condition, we have lost our godly qualities. We can cure that, just like a diseased man lost his appetite, but by treatment he can again awaken his appetite and eat properly. So we, being very small -- we may say "a small god" -- therefore we fall under the clutches of maya, illusion, but it can be cured. We can again revive our original position.

Guest: [break] ...the Lord in the heart is the soul or is He a part of the soul?

Prabhupada: No. The soul is part of the Lord. Lord is the Supersoul. So therefore, yoga practice means the soul wants to find out the Supersoul. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. The yogis, those who are real yogis, not bogus yogis, real yogi, they wants to meditate upon the Supersoul. The Supersoul or the soul, they are sitting on the same tree, the body. The Supersoul is simply witnessing the activities of the soul and giving sanction for all his mischievous activities. But the soul is suffering the sequence or the result of his activities. The Supersoul is simply witness. That is stated in the Bhagavad... Anumanta upadrasta. Anumanta means without God's sanction, without Supersoul's sanction, you cannot do anything. But because he persists, the soul persists to do something, Supersoul says, "All right, you do at your own risk." Just like a thief is going to steal. The Supersoul is ordering, "Don't do it," because without God's sanction he cannot steal. But when the thief persists, then He says, "All right, you do at your risk." This is the position of the Supersoul and the soul.

Hrdayananda: (translating) Does the soul suffer with the mind, or he's always enjoying?

Prabhupada: Yes, he creates. He's thinking in his own way; therefore he's creating a situation which will be botheration for him.

Hrdayananda: (translating) If we are so small, why is there a poison of the senses?

Prabhupada: Poison? Yes, because we have come to the poisonous condition, the senses have become poisonous. Just like if you go to an area where there is infectious disease, you contaminate and suffer from the disease. So it is your duty not to go such a place where there is contamination. It is up to you. You create your own situation of suffering or enjoying. Yes.

Hrdayananda: (translating) She said if we have not already achieved perfection, then how can the soul achieve the perfection? It seems that he has to reincarnate slowly in time to achieve the perfection.

Prabhupada: No, that is no argument. If you are diseased, you can be cured if you take the proper medicine, treatment. That's all. Disease is not hopelessness. Otherwise why the people go for treatment to a physician? Similarly, out of ignorance you are now in this miserable condition, but if you become treated by bona fide spiritual master, then you'll be cured. Originally every one of us -- pure. Now, by material condition we are now contaminated. That... But there is process to get out of this material contamination. Then again we become pure. And as soon as we become pure, there is no more birth, death, old age, and disease. Finished.

Hanuman: How do we free ourself from maya?

Prabhupada: Just become Krsna conscious and maya will not touch you, just like you take injection, vaccine, and the infection will not touch you. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya. Find out this verse. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Seventh Chapter. Read it.

Nitai:

daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]

(Hrdayananda reads Spanish translation)

Prabhupada: So, any other question? Yes?

Devotee or Guest: I want to ask you how can we possibly know that one has attained Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: You have to think of Krsna. Hm? What did he say, question?

Hrdayananda: He wanted to know what are the symptoms of one who has become Krsna conscious.

Prabhupada: Symptoms? He's chanting always Hare Krsna. Unless one is Krsna conscious, why he'll take the trouble, twenty-four hours, "Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna"? This is the symptom. The symptom is further explained that as soon as you see one man and you remember Krsna, that means he's Krsna conscious. So our men, wherever they go, people say, "Hare Krsna!" -- by seeing him only. Therefore the man is Krsna conscious. This is the proof. That is the statement of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, "If by seeing one person you remember Krsna, that person is Krsna conscious."

Hrdayananda: (translating) Why it seems that when the soul comes into contact with material nature it becomes contaminated?

Prabhupada: He wants to enjoy this material enjoyment. Just like everyone is going to the restaurant for eating something palatable, but we are not going, and somebody is going to cinema, but we are not going to the cinema. Similarly, there are two kinds of men: one is attracted; one is not attracted. Those who are not attracted, they are called nitya-siddha, eternally liberated. And those who are being attracted, they are called nitya-baddha, eternally conditioned. So you'll find always two classes of men. So one is attracted; one is not attracted. In the spiritual world the number of liberated person -- many, many times greater than these conditioned soul. Just like the prison house and outside the prison house. The population outside the prison house, their number is very great, but within the prison house there are small number, criminals. So there are innumerable living entities. Out of them, some of them become attracted to this material enjoyment; others not. So one who does not want to serve Krsna and wants to serve his senses, he's put into this material world. And he's given all facilities to enjoy, but he becomes entangled. This is the position. Yes?

Hrdayananda: (translating) How do we develop devotion for service, desire for service?

Prabhupada: That is, means... If you are serious, you come to us. I shall teach you. If you want to be learned man, you must go to school. You cannot learn at home. Anything more?

Hrdayananda: (translating) How can we feel the transmigration of the soul?

Prabhupada: How can you feel you are dreaming in a different land? In the, at night, when you dream, you forget you this all, everything, your father, mother, your home address. You are in a different platform. Again in daytime, you forget your dreaming land; you come to another place. This is transmigration. You create some body and you see differently. This is transmigration. We are... Every day, every night, we are experiencing transmigration, but we have no intelligence to understand. Therefore, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You have to go to a bona fide guru, and he'll make you understand things.

Hrdayananda: (translating) How can we achieve samadhi?

Prabhupada: Samadhi? When... Just like if you fully absorbed in some thought, that is called samadhi. That is samadhi. If you become absorbed in thought of Krsna, that is samadhi. That's all right. Now let us chant. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.15 -- Mexico, February 15, 1975