Life From Chemicals--Prove!

June 20, 1975

download  Players


 

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: ...our shelter is land. [break] ...Juhu? No, only some birds. (several birds are making noises, including a crow) There is crow. (laughter)Bhaktadasa: We have the ducks and swans over there, and we have the crows here.
Prabhupada: Why they are keeping crows?
Bahulasva: "Birds of a feather flock together. They are crows so they are keeping crows." [break]
Prabhupada: They say that "You are crows. You have come to see the crow." (laughter) Will they not say like that?
Bahulasva: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: ...bottle?
Bhaktadasa: This is a office for the zoo. They have a little exhibition of animals and botany. It smells like skunk. [break]
Prabhupada: They capture other birds.
Bhaktadasa: Yes, right. They eat mice, and birds.
Citsukhananda: And chickens. They come flying, those chickens.
Prabhupada: [break] ...call gaj pat(?). They eat pigeons also. [break] ...not very clear. Dirty water. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...of the trees in Seva-kunj.
Prabhupada: Mm. [break] ...are exactly Indian. [break] They have good facilities on this lake.
Citsukhananda: They have one church here, Prabhupada. It is Mormon church. It is not too far from here. It is very gigantic, and it's on a hill. And every Sunday they get maybe five to six thousand guests because they have spent great money on a big complex. They have a library, museum and church. This is... We could also do this sometime, make one nice Indian temple. Thousands of visitors would come, even just tourists, from all over the world. They could probably come the same way. Ours would be much better, though.
Prabhupada: Yes. Very good idea. [break] ...also very nice.
Bahulasva: The lake?
Prabhupada: Hm. Due to that lake. [break]
Bahulasva: ...but no one can swim.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Bahulasva: That big lake in Chicago? No one can swim because of the pollution.
Prabhupada: How they polluted, such a big lake?
Bahulasva: By factories. Many factories are there.
Dharmadhyaksa: They empty all their waste directly into the lake. All the fish are dying.
Prabhupada: Here some fishy smell. [break]
Bahulasva: ...gentleman first has to understand that he's not the body. That psychologist gentleman has to understand he's not the body first.
Prabhupada: Hm. So, what did he say?
Bahulasva: Yeah, he believes that there is soul and that you're not the body, and he's hoping that he'll be able to become more serious about studying Bhagavad-gita to understand that more clearly.
Prabhupada: So let him prove there is soul. That will be great service to the western world, if a scientist and philosopher, psychologist proves that "Here is soul."
Bahulasva: Srila Prabhupada, how should they set out to prove it, though? We've proved it by giving scriptural evidence. But how should a scientist do it?
Prabhupada: No, we prove it as a living and dead man, we give that proof. What is the difference between this dead man and living man? What is losing? What is missing? This is the proof. If... I so many times spoken that son is crying, "My father is gone, my father." "Where is your father gone? He is lying here. So what is gone? You have not seen it." This is the proof. Why do you cry, "Father is gone"? Father is lying here. Why do you say, "gone"? So that means what is gone, you have never seen it. Now you perceive, "Yes, something was there. Now he is gone." This is the proof.
Bahulasva: So our statements are also backed up by observation. The Gita's statements are also backed up by observation.
Prabhupada: Yes. Science means observation and experiment. That is science. You observe that this man is moving. There is something... (sound of someone calling from a distance) (Prabhupada calls:) Invite him. You are invited come. (laughter)
Dharmadhyaksa: Srila Prabhupada, the psychologist is in ecstasy every time he speaks to you.
Prabhupada: Hmm. No, he is a good boy. Although I say, "You do not know anything." (laughter)
Tamala Krsna: He didn't become angry?
Prabhupada: No.
Brahmananda: He admitted.
Prabhupada: He is good man.
Bahulasva: He has some humility.
Guru dasa: You tell everyone that and they come back for more. (Prabhupada chuckles)
Bahulasva: So science means observation, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes, observation and experiment.
Bahulasva: And experiment.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is science. [break]
Guru dasa: To make an experiment by chanting Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: No. Here is experiment, just like the dead man and living man. First of all, you observe that this man is moving or this animal is moving. There is some moving force. And the experiment is when the man and animal is dead, you can understand that the moving force is gone. This is experiment.
Tamala Krsna: Your car is here, Srila Prabhupada.
Jayatirtha: We can walk further if you like.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. [break]
Siddha-svarupa: The psychologists feel limited by the particulars means of experimentation that have already been used by other psychologists.
Prabhupada: What experiments they have made?
Siddha-svarupa: Well, these particular tests and so on that they're using. So it seems that he ought to change. Because somebody started doing that, right? I mean, they didn't always use those tests. They always change different kinds of tests and everything. Instead of being limited, he should offer a new method of observation, a new method of tests.
Prabhupada: It is simple, but because of their bad education, they cannot understand the simple thing.
Bahulasva: They want everything complicated.
Prabhupada: Complicated. The experiment is there. Observation is there. Everything is there. And the eternity is there. Krsna begins like reasonable gentleman, not humbug. He says, tatha-dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], very good example, that "As in this, body is changing from this stage to this stage, this stage, this stage, step by step, similarly," tatha dehantara-praptih, "similarly another body." So where is the difficulty to understand? So if this is accepted, then immediately you can accept that the soul which is changing body, he is eternal. Na jayate na mriyate. Therefore he was never born, never died.
Jayatirtha: When Arjuna came, he was suffering so much distress, but Krsna did not give him any psychological test to see what was the matter with him. He immediately knew it was because he was in the bodily conception of life.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, the thing is that you say that it is life which makes matter move, but the scientists, they don't accept that.
Prabhupada: Because they are rascals. How it is moving?
Tamala Krsna: They say it's a certain combination of matter.
Prabhupada: You make it. That means experiment. You simply observe, but you have no experiment. Therefore it is not science.
Brahmananda: You have to demonstrate knowledge.
Prabhupada: Yes, demonstrate. You make in the laboratory that things are moving by this combination. Otherwise it is useless. Therefore two things must be there: observation and experiment, practical and theoretical. Theoretical -- something is there who is moving. Now you make it practical to see that this combination... Just like they say chemical combination. Now take the chemicals and make experiment.
Tamala Krsna: No, the thing is that they are now in the test tube they are making experiment, and they are putting a certain set of chemicals together and maybe some soul takes shelter of those chemicals. But the scientists say that they get the credit for it. They don't say that the soul has entered. They say, "No, we have put different elements together, and now some..."
Prabhupada: No.
Bahulasva: They have never done that successfully.
Prabhupada: And even they are successful, what is credit? So many living entities are coming every minute, and if after thousand years, they can create one ant, so what is the credit? (laughter)
Bahulasva: Srila Prabhupada, now the impersonalists, they will accept that there's something in that body that's different than matter, but they won't admit that that's a person. They say that it's just some type of energy force, or they call it consciousness.
Prabhupada: But we haven't got to hear from them. You take lesson from Krsna.
Nalini-kantha: Are they better situated than the person who doesn't accept it at all?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Nalini-kantha: The impersonalists that denounce Krsna, are they better than the person who is ignorant of eternity?
Prabhupada: Who is he ignorant of?
Bahulasva: The common man.
Tamala Krsna: Are the impersonalists better than the gross materialists?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Sankara's philosophy. Brahma satyam jagan mithya. That is his philosophy. Brahman means that spirit soul, that is fact. And this material external, that is false. A little advanced than the Buddha philosophy.
Bahulasva: Srila Prabhupada, how is it that they describe the soul, the impersonalists?
Prabhupada: Because they have no eyes to see. They say that "The body is finished. Now..." Gatakasa potakasa. They give the example, just like within the pot there is sky, and outside the pot there is sky and when the pot is broken, the within sky mixes with the outside sky.
Bahulasva: So we say that within the pot, or the body, there is consciousness, and that remains eternally individual.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is said by Krsna. It is not our imagination.
Bahulasva: So the eternal characteristic of the self, then, is that he is pure consciousness.
Prabhupada: Pure consciousness, Krsna consciousness. He knows that "I am part and parcel of Krsna." That is pure consciousness.
Bahulasva: And therefore His servant.
Prabhupada: Yes. Part and parcel means servant. Hare Krsna.
Bahulasva: Would you like to walk further, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No. What is the time now?
Bahulasva: It's twenty to seven.
Prabhupada: That's all right. Let us go.
Jayatirtha: It's time to go. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Mischievous Merit

Durban, October 14, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] (out of car) ...by chanting mantra and herb. But a crooked man cannot be controlled any way. Therefore he is more dangerous than the snake. Sarpat kruratarah khalah.Pusta Krsna: Why is it that the man cannot be tamed and the unintelligent animal can be tamed?
Prabhupada: Because man is more intelligent. He can misuse his independence and intelligence, whereas animal cannot do that. He is not so intelligent. He has... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They have been described as duskrtina. Duskrtina means he has got brain more intelligent than the animal, but the brain is being utilized for mischievous activities. Therefore they are called duskrtina. Brain should be utilized for some benevolent work for the good of the living entities. But this brain, modern educated brain, is being misused for discovering something which is very dangerous to the human society. Therefore duskrtina. And he is getting Nobel Prize because he has discovered this atomic weapon which is so dangerous, and he is glorified, "Oh, you have done so nice scientific discovery." What is that discovery? "That you can kill... Instead of one man with gun, you can kill one thousand men. Therefore you must be offered Nobel Prize." This is man's appreciation.
Pusta Krsna: Better to walk this way, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are called mudhas, all rascals. Na ma duskrtino mudhah. How you can understand that this man is mischievously meritorious? How you can understand? Duskrtina means mischievously meritorious. This man is meritorious, but he is using his merit for mischievous activities. That is called duskrtina. So how you can understand this man is mischievously meritorious? You can say, "How is that? A man is meritorious and at the same time he is mischievous?" There're so many organization, especially in Western country, big, big rogues' organization simply for cheating, simply for smuggling. They have got merit. Otherwise how they have organized such big, big organization? But what for? All mischievous activities, harassing government, harassing people. The merit is being used. There are many organizations in the Western country. Is it not?
Pusta Krsna: Yes, it's true.
Prabhupada: Yes. Many, many. All these realty business. Realty business, you know?
Pusta Krsna: Realty.
Prabhupada: Seventy-five percent of them are mischievous. I have got experience. Seventy-five percent, they are simply mischievously planning -- you have got five thousand or ten thousand dollar -- to take it away, showing you that you are getting 200,000 worth of property. In this way they make implication, take your ten thousand dollar, and then finished. Many cases. Their only business is this. Big, big lawyer implicated. Therefore they are duskrtina. Go to a lawyer; immediately you are implicated. You see, this man is condemned, Nixon, and he is to pay the lawyer's bill by working hard, by writing a book and selling the good will to some company. He has to pay the lawyer's bill. He has no money. The lawyers, doctors, as soon as they get some opportunity, immediately captures you and finish-bas. How to take away all your money. Because artificially they have enhanced the standard of living, they want money. So unless they do mischievous activity, by honest means they cannot get money.
Pusta Krsna: That's described in the Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Pusta Krsna: Bhagavad-gita, that they earn money by illegal methods.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Why is it that in the modern day good people, they don't come into public office? Good people. In previous ages there were rajarsis, great kings, very pious kings. Why is it that only rogues are aspiring today?
Prabhupada: Because the democracy. You will not get vote. As soon as you become honest man in the public office, nobody will be obedient to you, and it will be impossible for him to execute any... You see? The bank manager in Delhi -- he was my friend -- that "I am afraid of this union. If I press them to do something, they will immediately topsy-turvy the whole management." Bank manager said. "So I am afraid of the workers' union," he told me. So therefore good men, they do not go to this political post because they know they will not be able to do anything good. He will be surrounded by all rogues. Nobody will execute his order.
Pusta Krsna: So the future in Kali-yuga looks very bleak.
Prabhupada: Very, very black. Achinna-dara-dravin gacchanti giri-kananam. People, general people, will be so much disgusted that they will be obliged to give up family and home and go to the forest, being disappointed: "Now I cannot manage. Let me go away."
Harikesa: That's predestined.
Prabhupada: Yes, predestined.
Harikesa: But that can all change in a minute.
Prabhupada: Yes, that can be changed only by... Therefore we are... "Go giri-kananam, but take shelter of Krsna." Vanam gato yad harim asrayet. "Go, leave your, this so-called family, home, and go to the forest and take shelter of Krsna." That is advised by Prahlada Maharaja. "That is the best thing in life. If you want to be free from anxiety, give up this so-called family life. Go to the forest and take shelter of Lord Krsna." That is Prahlada Maharaja's advice. Don't try to adjust it. It will not be possible.
Pusta Krsna: Especially in Kali-yuga.
Prabhupada: Especially in Kali-yuga. So we are offering them shelter that "In this age you are not accustomed to go to the forest. It will be more inconvenient. Come to our center and be Krsna conscious and chant Hare Krsna. Your problems will be solved." This is our mission. Everyone is faced with problem. Otherwise why there is majority of suicide? Everyone is faced with problem.
Pusta Krsna: It's best to go this way.
Harikesa: Oh, somebody hitting.
Prabhupada: Shilling?
Harikesa: No, they are playing golf.
Prabhupada: Oh. How persistent life is this. His main body is cut into pieces; still, he's struggling to exist. He has got some attachment -- "I shall live here, stand here for ten thousand years." This is maya. Daivi hy esa gunamayi [Bg. 7.14]. [break]
Pusta Krsna: How can a man's intelligence be rectified? If intelligence is the...
Prabhupada: This hari-kirtana, chant. Somehow or other, induce them to chant Hare Krsna. Everything all right. By flattering, by soliciting, by giving him prasada, by elevating him, that "You are the best man in the world" -- in this way inducing him, "Please chant Hare Krsna," then he will be rectified. This is Hare Krsna movement. There is no other way. He is ruined, and the more the Kali-yuga advances, he becomes more and more ruined. All other attempts will failure. Don't you see in your country the LSD-addicted hippies? Government spends so much money to rectify them-failure. But as soon as they come to our camp, immediately success. How it is possible?
Pusta Krsna: By this chanting...
Prabhupada: That is the amazement. That is the amazement of Professor Judah and all others, that "How it is happening? There is something in the Hare Krsna movement."
Pusta Krsna: This is good propaganda with the governments also. This is good way to get the governments to support our movement more and more, isn't it?
Prabhupada: The government never objected to our movement. Never. I never met any objection from government side. Neither even Christian priestly side. I never met any objection. They understand that "He is doing something."
Pusta Krsna: Only from your Godbrothers. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Pusta Krsna: You don't like the sunshine so much.
Prabhupada: Only at the time of massage. [break]
Pusta Krsna: ...Vedic statement or is it just preference?
Prabhupada: No, that is my personal. During winter it is pleasing, of course, sunshine.
Pusta Krsna: ...walk this way. There's a ravine here. [break] Srila Prabhupada, it always seems that there is some kind of inspiration for spiritual life there. Is that simply mental concoction, or is it actually a fact, the land itself?
Prabhupada: Land. It is the influence of the land. Just like Vrndavana. Whatever you may be, you stay here, you become spiritualized. Simply you stay there. [break]
Pusta Krsna: Is it possible to reform a person against their will?
Prabhupada: No, not possible. [break]
Pusta Krsna: ...sign, Srila Prabhupada, that someone is actually having change in heart?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: What is the sign that someone is actually having change in heart?
Prabhupada: By his action. [break] ...kasipu tried to make Prahlada atheist. He failed. And Prahlada tried to make his father theist. He failed. Don't you see?
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: So unless one agrees you cannot turn him. It is not possible. Five-years'-old boy, staunch devotee, and the powerful Hiranyakasipu, father, who is threatening with his life and so many ways he tried that "You become atheist, godless. Otherwise I shall kill you." He did not agree. And similarly, the son also solicited the father that "You have got so much power by the grace of God. Why you are becoming atheist?" Both of them could not turn to their side. Prahlada remained Prahlada, and Hiranyakasipu remained Hiranyakasipu. [break] ...can expect that without agreeing, conceding, one can be reformed. No, that is not possible. Impossible.
Pusta Krsna: Not simply by rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: No, that is not possible. He must agree, "Yes." Therefore guru is required. Guru means, accept guru means, "Whatever you say, I will accept." That is guru. Otherwise friendly talk. Friendly talk will not do. To accept guru means "Now I accept you, guru, my instructor, without any argument," and that is acceptance. "Whatever you say, I shall do." That is agreement. Then he can be reformed. Sisyas te 'ha sadhi ma prapannam: "I surrender unto you. I become your disciple. Now you train me." Then he can be reformed. Otherwise not possible. [break]
Devotee: When we were at school we accept a teacher and he teaches us mathematics or something like this, but when it comes to spiritual life and we accept a guru, people criticize by saying, "Oh, you're not thinking for yourself anymore."
Prabhupada: Yes, you have surrendered. You say, "Yes, we have surrendered. That is the way." Tad viddhi pranipatena [Bg. 4.34]. The first term is "surrender," pranipata. Otherwise it is not possible. If one does not surrender, there is no question of reformation. He must voluntarily surrender: "Yes. Whatever you say, I shall do." Then things can be advanced. Otherwise not possible. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Knowledge to find the Source

Vrndavana, December 11, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Aksayananda Swami: Price has risen and quality has lessened. (pause) Prabhupada, you know the ISKCON centres you have started they are just like actually Vaikuntha, they are so nice. Even the Gaudiya Matha centres were not so nice. Just like an installation of Vaikuntha. They're so clean and nice. (indistinct) ...help becoming devotees by visiting your centers. Becomes almost automatic.Prabhupada: Follow the regulative principles, it will remain, always Vaikuntha. Otherwise again material world.
Aksayananda Swami: Yes.
Prabhupada: Free hotel. (laughs) That's all. And free hotel will not endure.
Aksayananda Swami: No.
Prabhupada: Svayam eva sphuraty adah. By service spirit beginning with tongue Hare Krsna. Then everything is revealed, Vaikuntha atmosphere... Sethji has not come out.
Aksayananda Swami: Of course we accept, ah, when you tell us to chant sixteen rounds, we accept that figure as being, in perfect faith, that you're the acarya, but ah, what if others we wanted to convince, is there any, any ah, sastr... Is there any Vedic verse we can refer to to corroborate that at least they must chant sixteen rounds. Or that many number of names?
Prabhupada: No. In the sastra it is not said like that...
Aksayananda Swami: I see.
Prabhupada: It is said, sankhy-purvakah...
Aksayananda Swami: Sankhy-purvakah.
Prabhupada: You must fix up.
Aksayananda Swami: Counting.
Prabhupada: You must fix up in numerical strength.
Aksayananda Swami: I see.
Prabhupada: Whatever you can.
Aksayananda Swami: Yes.
Prabhupada: But I have fixed up sixteen rounds, because you cannot do.
Aksayananda Swami: That's all we can do.
Prabhupada: (smiling, touch of irony) Yes. That also is difficult.
Aksayananda Swami: Yes. (laughing)
Prabhupada: Otherwise, Haridasa Thakura was chanting 300,000. So, That is not possible. You should not imitate, but whatever you fix up you must do.
Aksayananda Swami: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupada: That is wanted.
Aksayananda Swami: Yes. I was told in the beginning you asked the first disciples to chant 64 rounds?
Prabhupada: Yes. I asked them to chant 32?
Prabhupada: (grinning) Hm.
Aksayananda Swami: Is that correct?
Prabhupada: Sankhy-purvaka nama-gana-natibhih. Sankhya purva, or numerical strength must be there. And you should follow rigidly.
Aksayananda Swami: So if, if we are serious and sincere, it means that that sixteen will increase to, ah, to continuously chanting.
Prabhupada: You can do also now. It's not that because I've finished sixteen rounds...
Aksayananda Swami: No.
Prabhupada: You can increase. But that sixteen must be finished.
Aksayananda Swami: Yes. (pause) What I mean is, that's to bring us to the platform of chanting constantly. That at least we do that numerical number, finally we may be able to do, if we're fortunate to chant constantly day and night.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda Swami: Some of the members of the Gaudiya Matha who say they chant 64 rounds, they are unable to ah, ahh, refrain from sleeping too much, from eating too much.
Prabhupada: How do you know that he's eating too much?
Aksayananda Swami: I was staying at one about a year ago. When I was travelling I stayed a few days at some of the places. At night they would have a whole meal...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Aksayananda Swami: ...big, big meal. They would be sitting eating for one hour. Then in the morning they were all tired and very dull.
Prabhupada: Huh huh. (laughing)
Aksayananda Swami: Then again at lunch time and after that again sleep. They couldn't do anything else, there was no time for preaching or for distributing books or... But yet they were supposed to be doing 64 rounds. That was in Vishakapatnam.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Aksayananda Swami: They were all very fat.
Prabhupada: What is time now?
Devotee: Five to seven. ...here now. I've never been there but I heard there are a lot.. reports Cit-sukhananda prabhu is there now.
Prabhupada: Haa.
Aksayananda Swami: ...(Gaudiya Matha) devotees, your godbrothers and the older devotees are all looking to be pretty alright, but the younger ones, our age, they are unable to continue...
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna (to a bypasser).
Aksayananda Swami: ...keep the standard. And many of them they have tried to come and join us.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Aksayananda Swami: Many of them, they ask to join us even though they are initiated by others. So should we allow them to come or...?
Prabhupada: No.
Aksayananda Swami: No. That's what I thought. I wasn't sure about that.
Prabhupada: Why they want to join?
Aksayananda Swami: Because in their centers there's no, there doesn't seem to be so much transcendental activity like you have given us. They don't get that. And if they come and see us they see the devotees are dancing and happy and engaged. The conditions are clean and so on...
Prabhupada: So, you can try one or two. If you find that they're alright...
Aksayananda Swami: Yes. Doesn't matter.
Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) We can purchase some of those fields but where is the man? We can grow our own food. (slight pause) They have now learned from the Western countries to run! (jogger goes past) (laughs) And without caring for the field. Hm? Field working is very troublesome and this running is very easy.
Hari-sauri: Running out of breath. (pause) Meets some one on the road.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Man: (mumbling) ...Only Mayapur, eh, Caitanya Chandrodaya Mandir temple is ahh, undoubtedly, eh, ahh Hari.. ahh, eheh, ahh, (mumbles something more)
Prabhupada: Scientists say, is there any living entity in the sun globe?
Aksayananda Swami: No. They don't, they say there's nothing.
Prabhupada: Simply everything here?
Aksayananda Swami: Yes. That's what they say.
Prabhupada: And especially in Europe and America! (everyone laughs) Hare Krsna! They say there is nothing. They have gone there? They have seen?
Aksayananda Swami: Not very intelligent.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Aksayananda Swami: Not very intelligent... [break]
Jnana: ...nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen...
Prabhupada: So who, who put all this energy there? Where from nitrogen came?
Jnana: That they don't know.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. They do not know, something, and they are speaking on the subject matter. Is it not nonsense?
Harikesa: We know there's no life on the sun because we can look at a fire here and we see there's no life.
Prabhupada: But you are blind. You have no eyes to see.
Harikesa: Well we have our instruments and we look through...
Prabhupada: So what is the use of it? Anything made by rascal, is that perfect?
Harikesa: Well it's better than some mythological book!
Prabhupada: No, book also, you write book and you want to believe, others your book. That is also book. Why do you write scientific book?
Harikesa: Well they're proven, those other books...
Prabhupada: What is proven? You cannot say what is the chemical there, wherefrom came. Is that proof? "We cannot say." Is that proof?
Harikesa: Well we know how they interact. We may not know how they got here but we know what they do once they are here.
Prabhupada: No... Knowledge means to find out the source. That is knowledge. Where from it comes. There is a good example we studied in our childhood. A child was very intelligent so he was beating on a drum, so he was very much inquisitive, "Where from the sound is coming?" Then he cut the surface... (laughing) That is intelligence. Inquisitive... where from the sound is coming? Although it was childish but that is innate intelligence.
Hari-sauri: Scientists are trying to do that. They are taking...
Prabhupada: And that is alright. In future! (laughter)
Smarahari: The scientists say that the sun is made of certain elements and all the stars they are made of the same...
Prabhupada: Then why don't you make an imitation sun here? At night so that you may save so many expenses. So much expenses for electric. The rascal. If you know the chemicals then you make it. Ha? What do they say?
Smarahari: They say there are many suns... but...
Prabhupada: That's alright. Make you one sun, if you know! Many suns but you have not made anyone of them. You just try to make one, then I shall see your intelligence. Huh? What do you say? Anybody?
Aksayananda Swami: They cannot do.
Devotee (1) (woman): They don't have enough power.
Prabhupada: Huh? Then why do you say nonsense! If you have not enough power there must be somebody powerful than you -- you have to admit that -- who has made all these things. But you are rascal you have not... You are simply, ahh, what is called? Speculating. That in future we shall be powerful. But the powerful is already there. What is your credit? More powerful-) you cannot conceive even how powerful He a scientist. Huh? Is that alright? What is your value? The already powerful is there, who has manufactured these things. And you are expecting in future you'll be powerful; therefore you are more powerful. Just see their folly. If you are powerful then make it, another imitation sun.
Harikesa: (half joking) I'm seriously speaking, if we made another one the whole place would become too hot.
Prabhupada: Hah. So you are scientist, you protect yourself. (laughter)
Devotee (2): Scientists aren't very intelligent because today he big thing in the country politically is that whole world thinks they are running out of energy on one hand, and on the other hand the whole world believes that the scientists can solve all the problems and get to know the absolute truth but if they...
Prabhupada: They are creating problems.
Devotee (2): Yes, they're creating problems.
Prabhupada: (sounds of lots of birds in background) (stops) Birds and beasts, they're living without any scientists -- they're more happy.
Harikesa: But they're freezing in the cold and they're...
Prabhupada: No, no one is freezing. That is you are speaking but they are not freezing. Even int the coldest part of the country, Greenland, the animals are living quite nicely. The birds and many animals.
Hari-sauri: But if we preach like that to them, then they'll say 'then what's wrong with becoming an animal then'?
Prabhupada: Huh? But you are less than an animal. Talking nonsense. Put forward the problems, summarise janma-mrtyu-jar-vyadhi solve these problems.
Harikesa: Well we can solve the problem of birth by just killing all the children.
Prabhupada: (laughing) That is not solving, the birth is already there, therefore you are killing. (everyone laughing)
Aksayananda Swami: Birth is still there.
Prabhupada: No. Because there is birth therefore you are killing. So birth problem is not solved.
Harikesa: No, no, no. We're killing before birth.
Prabhupada: What is this before birth. The child is already there... mother's womb.
Prabhupada: Ah. That is you rascal you can say. Unless he has (sic) no life, how it is growing? Such a rascal...
Harikesa: It's a lump.
Prabhupada: ...they cannot understand. Does a dead child grow? Simply speaking nonsense!
Harikesa: That's their whole argument for abortion.
Prabhupada: That's alright but...
Harikesa: You just finished it! (laughing)
Prabhupada: ...but our point is, the birth problem is not solved. If there are unwanted population, you kill them that does not mean the population problem is solved.
Hari-sauri: They're not actually seeing the actual causes of the problems.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: They're not actually seeing the causes of the problems so they're trying to adjust to them.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Hari-sauri: They're simply trying to make so many adjustments to the problems but they are not solving the cause.
Prabhupada: Yes. That adjustment is not solution.
Aksayananda Swami: You said once, putting the weight from your head to your shoulder.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Aksayananda Swami: You are carrying a heavy weight I remember you said once. You're carrying heavy weight here, to take the pain you put it here. Then again back here. But still the weight is there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: The scientists came up with another one for enjoyment. That they cut this little cord that makes the sperm come into the semen and in this way they can have sex life like anything and they're actually not killing. (Man shouts greeting in background)
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jai! Jaya. Semen, what is that?
Harikesa: Well they say anyway, that... into the semen so they cut this little cord, that tube or something, that has the semen go into the sperm, so the sperm never gets into the semen. So therefore they can have sex life but they'll be no reproduction.
Prabhupada: So one may check, two may check, what about millions? Supposing they can check in that way, it may be possible for one or two, or a dozen, but what about millions and millions? Nature's way.
Harikesa: That's if they, they're doing this in...
Prabhupada: In future. That will solve in future.
Harikesa: They were giving prizes to people who are doing this.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Like TV sets.
Prabhupada: Mutual 'present' society. (everyone laughing) (front bell of temple ringing as Prabhupada enters grounds) Hiranyakasipu civilization, and we are presenting Prahlada civilization. So this is a struggle, but ultimately Prahlada will come out triumphant. Hare Krsna (to bystander) and Hiranyakasipu will be killed. Jaya! (Walks into temple) (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Krishna and Christ--Father & Son

Detroit, August 6, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Madhavananda: It's our duty in society to show everyone how to work for Krsna and become happy in life.Prabhupada: That is yajna. To work for Krsna means yajna. Yajnarthe karma: "For yajna, performing yajna, one has to work." To work for Krsna means yajna. That is performance of yajna. [break] ...Communistic idea is borrowing this idea from... But because they are imperfect, they have made center, state. And because it is imperfect, it is not successful. They have made center the state. [break] Tamo-guna means laziness and sleep. The sudras, they are in laziness and sleep. So if they have got something to eat, they will not work. Laziness. Or eat more and sleep. This is tamo-guna. And rajo-guna means they are working for sense gratification. That is also useless. Tamo-guna is laziness and sleeping, and rajo-guna means working foolishly or for sense gratification. And sattva-guna means they know how to work. And therefore above this sattva-guna they become devotee, work for Krsna. So without working for Krsna, everyone is under the spell of these modes of material nature. And there is no training how to work for Krsna. That is the defect of modern civilization.
Adi-kesava: Sometimes people criticize us, saying we are teaching everyone how to do nothing, that we are teaching them about God, but how are we going to teach anyone to practically survive in the world? Sometimes they say like that, that we don't have any practical instruction as well.
Prabhupada: Practical? What is not practical? We are not eating? We are not sleeping?
Adi-kesava: Yes, they are saying, "Oh, when will you learn to do a trade? When will you learn to perform business, or when will you learn to become a doctor, if you are always studying..."
Prabhupada: But you are doctor already. Why shall I become doctor? You serve me. We serve you by giving you Krsna consciousness; you serve me as a doctor. What is the wrong there? Parasparartham. I am for you; you are for me. Division of labor, that is accepted universally. So ask them, "Do you think that everyone should become doctor? Then where is the patient?" Eh? Everything is required. Similarly, you require our help also. It is cooperation. You know medical science; we know spiritual science. So let us exchange and be happy. Why you are envious of us? Why there is division in the body -- head, arms, legs, belly? Why not everything head or everything leg? Why there is divided? That is nature. It is required. Why this road is neglected?
Madhavananda: It's mismanagement.
Adi-kesava: Even they are saying that, that we don't know how to, we're not teaching anything practical.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Adi-kesava: Even sometimes they are saying we're not teaching anything practical.
Prabhupada: What does he mean by practical?
Adi-kesava: Practical? They're thinking we don't know how to operate in the material world.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Adi-kesava: They're thinking we don't know how to manage things.
Prabhupada: We are not managing things? Hm? Brahmananda? You are not managing?
Brahmananda: We manage all day long. (laughing)
Adi-kesava: Even my father is a big businessman. He said to me, "Who is this person that taught you to manage like this?" He said, "I wish I could get him to teach all my men."
Prabhupada: So why don't you ask your father to join for management? Eh?
Brahmananda: So you are managing one of the buses, isn't it?
Adi-kesava: Yes.
Brahmananda: He is managing one of the Radha-Damodara..., that big bus.
Prabhupada: Oh. He is with us?
Brahmananda: No. Adi-kesa. Your name is Adi-kesa?
Harikesa: His father is a big scholar.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Adi-kesava: He's a big rascal. (laughter)
Prabhupada: In what subject he is scholar?
Adi-kesava: Well, he's a businessman, but also he is a big philosopher. He thinks that by working very hard that God will give you the result-karma-mimamsa philosophy.
Prabhupada: Hm. Karma-mimamsa.
Adi-kesava: He thinks simply by doing your work in the world, then God will become satisfied, and you do not need to offer any sacrifice.
Prabhupada: The ass is working also. So why God is not satisfied with him? He is working very hard. Why he is meant for carrying load for the washerman? Why do they think that we are not working? Eh?
Harikesa: They only see us chanting and dancing and eating prasadam.
Ambarisa: They wonder how we can buy such a big house when we are not working.
Prabhupada: That... They do not see Krsna's mercy. Just like yesterday we purchased one house, and according to Indian exchange, twenty-four lakhs. So I had no money, but I have purchased. That is... They do not understand what is Krsna's mercy.
Adi-kesava: In Boston when we bought the big temple there, they said... They asked us, "We saw you dancing and chanting in the street right in front of there the other day, and now we see you going into a house on the richest block in the whole city."
Prabhupada: So why don't you say, "We have pleased Krsna, He has sent money"? That is our business. Why should we work like an ass and dog? We simply please Krsna, and He sends money. That's all. You see practically. Yesterday I went to see the house. I had no money, but I purchased. Twenty-four lakhs. Wherefrom the money comes? That is intelligence, that you please one person and you get everything. And you rascal, you please so many others; still, you are not happy. That is intelligence. You are going to water the trees and leaves and the twigs and..., but we put water in the root. It reaches everywhere. Yatha taror mula-nisecanena trpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhah [SB 4.31.14]. If I pour water on the root, all the branches will be pleased and they will give me fruits, flowers, everything. They do not know this science.
Harikesa: They can't even see the root.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is their blindness. Andha.
Brahmananda: 'Cause they can't see it, they think it's not there.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Brahmananda: Because they can't see the root, they think it's not there.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...house for the last four years. And I went for half an hour; I purchased -- without any money. Still, they are so blind, they cannot see the mercy of God. One should imagine that "Yes, there is mercy of God. Otherwise how it is possible?" If they have no eyes to see, they should imagine at least.
Harikesa: That's why the government thinks that we are being supported. In India they think we are being supported by the...
Prabhupada: CIA.
Harikesa: Yes. Because we have so many nice things. Where else could we...
Brahmananda: They think it is the mercy of the CIA.
Prabhupada: My Godbrother says-Tirtha Maharaja -- that American government has given me two crores of rupees. They are supposed to be spiritually advanced, and they are so rascal. And he is the head of Caitanya Matha. Krsna said, yoga-ksemam vahamy aham: [Bg. 9.22] "I take the responsibility of his expenditure." Krsna says, and they are preaching Krsna consciousness, and they are thinking, "American government is doing, not Krsna." Such fools and rascals, they are head of..., a spiritual head. Karmis, jnanis -- everyone is envious of our... And they are trying to speculate how to admit: "Where he gets money? Where he gets money?"
Harikesa: That man in San Francisco? The photographer? He was always trying to take pictures of your rings and always trying to take pictures of all the rich things on the altar. He was trying to make a story like that. They try to show that you are enjoying.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: They are trying to show that you are enjoying.
Brahmananda: Even in Chicago the one, the woman who wrote the article, the 34-ounce? She said how "You looked at your gold watch." That was in the article, such an important thing.
Prabhupada: Nityananda Prabhu used to decorate Himself with very costly ornaments. Your teeth does not look very clean. Why?
Harikesa: They never get white. They are yellow all the time.
Prabhupada: You washed daily?
Harikesa: Every day.
Ambarisa: Did you try baking soda?
Harikesa: Yes.
Satsvarupa: The karmis are also envious that we are very happy, that we are looking forward to a next life. They... Because they don't have that faith...
Prabhupada: They have no hope.
Satsvarupa: They are envious.
Prabhupada: Actually they have no hope because they are going to degenerate to become dog, cats, trees, then lost.
Satsvarupa: So they try to tell us, "Oh, that is just mythology, what you are following," because they are envious.
Brahmananda: In Dr. Judah's book he gives interviews with the devotees, and they tell so many instances of how our devotees were so depressed and hopeless, and then they became Krsna conscious, and oh, their whole lives have been transformed, and how happy and... Why don't they see that? They somehow discount it as being not very substantial, being fanatical or something religious. But it's a fact. He took a survey of "What was the thing that attracted you to the Hare Krsna movement?" So the majority, about 53%, they said it was the sound of the mantra, Hare Krsna. And another, about 48%, they said it was the friendliness of the devotees.
Prabhupada: And that one, what is called? Draft? Draft man came to inquire that "What is the allurement here in this society that they try to avoid that..." What do you call? Draft? "...draftboard and come to this society? What is the facility?" So when he studied he said that "There is no facility; still harder. They have to give up so many things." He remarked like that, "Still harder."
Brahmananda: Than the army.
Prabhupada: Yes. And actually that is so. Wherever you go, nobody will ask you that "You give up this, give up this, give up this, give up this." And we ask that "If you want to join, then you have to give up these things." So they have sacrificed everything; still, they are happy. Therefore they have been described as mudha, no knowledge. Mudha nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Maya in her Ministers

Bombay, November 12, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: "I am Indian." "I am American."Dr. Patel: More important: "I am a human being and others are lower animals." That is the greatest abhimana.
Prabhupada: No, that is also.
Dr. Patel: Abhimana.
Prabhupada: That is also, what is called, false ego. Human being or animal, they are not different, because the body is made of the same ingredient. If you manufacture a dog like a dog, like a man, what is the difference? The ingredient is the same, earth.
Dr. Patel: Five bhutas, panca-bhuta.
Prabhupada: Panca-bhuta So where is the difference? A man who knows, he will see so many dolls made of earth. He knows they are all earth. Ekatvam anupasyatah [Iso 7].
Dr. Patel:
brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
 [Bg. 18.54]
Some of it all, no?
Prabhupada: First of all let me, let me understand. This bodily transformation does not make any difference. Either it is made like a dog or it is made like a man, it is made from the earth. So one who knows the ingredient, he does not make any difference. Because he knows the dog or the man made of the same ingredient. Hare Krsna. Jaya. First of all the body. The bodily conscious even...
Dr. Patel: He has come.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: He has come.
Prabhupada: The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi hastini, panditah samah [Bg. 5.18]. This is the... So anyone who is under the bodily conception of life, either human beings or dogs, they are the same. But that upadhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they are making this nationalism. But it is nothing but dogism. Is it not? That's all. The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives, so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders. But what is their business? Business is that doggish mentality: "I am this body." So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that "I am this body." Very, very difficult.
Dr. Patel: That is ahankara.
Prabhupada: False ahankara. Because he is not body, it is false ahankara. So sastra therefore says, bhagavad-bhakti vihinasya jati japas tapah kriya. A person who has not developed Krsna consciousness, for him this advancement of nationality, big work, industry, so on, so on, so on, jati japas tapah kriya... Kriya, these act...
Dr. Patel: Activities.
Prabhupada: :What are these? Apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. It has no value. But people are enamored by these things, "I belong to great nation. I am American. We have got so many industries. We have got so many cars." Attachment. So it is very difficult. Sarvo-padhi-vinirmuktam. One, after becoming completely freed from all these false designations, to become a devotee is very, very difficult. There is no education.
Dr. Patel: Sarva-bhavena, from all sides and from all degrees.
Prabhupada: It is very difficult. So we are dealing with very, very difficult task. It is not very easy, the Krsna consciousness movement. Naturally we have got attraction for God. That is spiritual kingdom. Just like Vrndavana. Vrndavana means center is Krsna. The elderly person like Nanda Maharaja, Yasoda, their friends, their..., they are also attracted to Krsna. The gopis are attracted to Krsna, the cowherds boys, they are attracted to Krsna. The cows, calves, animals and peacock -- everyone is attracted to Krsna. The water is attracted to Krsna. That is Vrndavana. And here in the material world nobody is attracted by Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Who prevents them, sir? maya.
Prabhupada: :No. He wanted this; therefore maya is there.
Dr. Patel: :So that their position may go on.
Prabhupada: Police is not first. First you become a thief; then police is there, not that police comes and arrest you unnecessary. No. As soon as you become criminal, then police comes and arrest you. maya comes next. If you give up your natural attraction for Krsna, if you are attracted by this material enjoyment, then maya is there. Again if you try to...
Dr. Patel: But material, all material, is made up of maya.
Prabhupada: No, no. Nothing is made by maya. maya is made by God.
Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of maya, is it not?
Prabhupada: No. No. maya means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg. 10.8]. Krsna is the creator of everything. maya is also created by Krsna. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, maya's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mudha janmani janmani [Bg. 16.20]. Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvam khalv idam brahma. So maya is also Brahman. maya is also Brahman. Sarvam khalv idam brahma. Why maya is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama maya, Krsna says. Mama maya. So how maya can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.
Dr. Patel: :That is when there was Rama-rajya, sir. These modern fellows will talk all these things...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. No, no. Rama-rajya should be there as far as possible.
Dr. Patel: :They are roguish fellows. Just like Nixon. What did he do? Was it in the place of king?
Prabhupada: No, no, he... Nixon, Nixon...
Dr. Patel: :Most powerful nation of the world having a leader of the type of Nixon.
Prabhupada: So that is... Of course, in American constitution the president is also impeached. Is it the law?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: This is the first president who was impeached, during all the times.
Prabhupada: :But that is not very good law. That is not very good law. If the president also can be impeached, that is not very good law.
Dr. Patel: Sir, if the government is made according to the rule and regulations established by our religions, then that president or the king is above law. Otherwise these fools must be within law. But the way they have been ruling the countries and ransacking the people's morals and material...
Prabhupada: :No, no. Anyone, anyone who is within law, he cannot be president.
Dr. Patel: :But these are within the law, president. These are the artificial constitutions made up, not the constitution as given by Vedas and Vedic religions. Then king or president is above law -- to my mind. I may be wrong. I am open to correction.
Prabhupada: Therefore we want rajarsi. We don't want ordinary king. Rajarsi.
Dr. Patel: Then it is all right.
Prabhupada: Imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2].
Dr. Patel: :Ah, those rajarsis. A king like Janaka.
Prabhupada: No, everyone should be rajarsi. Otherwise he has no power to become king. He should be rejected. There are instances. Just like Vena Maharaja. He was not rajarsi, so he was killed by the brahmanas: "Get down." There are instances. Then Prthu Maharaja became king.
Dr. Patel: Prthu was the incarnation of God.
Prabhupada: :Yes. So king is supposed to be representative of God if not incarnation.
Dr. Patel: That's right. Then he is above law.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because God is above law. But these people are representatives of the foolish, ignorant majority, and majority is made up of fools. Wise people are few.
Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. Jaya. Fools' paradise. Eh?
Dr. Patel: That's right. We are living in fools' paradise. If the whole today universe was governed as it is ordained by Vedas and Vedic philosophy and laws, there would not have been any difficulty for us. But from time immemorial, even in the very place of the cradle of Vedic civilization, there were all these types of wars and (Hindi) and daityas and devas and all these things.
Prabhupada: :Yes. I have got some... [break] Krsna consciousness movement is the only remedy to make everyone the first-class human being. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunair tatra samasate surah [SB 5.18.12]. Hare Krsna. If you want to qualify the human society with all good qualities, then bhagavad-bhakti is the only means. Otherwise not.
Dr. Patel: That is correct sir. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66].
Prabhupada: So unfortunately nobody is interested. This is the only remedy, and nobody is interested. Rather, they will put blocks in the progress. Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: If the modern politicians of the world follow the teaching of even Mahabharata and santi-parva, there will be santi all over. What is your opinion, sir? That is sufficient if they don't go ahead further.
Prabhupada: Santi means to become devotee. Otherwise there is no question of. Jnatva mam santim rcchati. That is wanted. If one does not know Krsna, where is santi? Kuto santy ayuktasya. Even Dhruva Maharaja, he was... He became too much restless, being insulted by stepmother. He went to the forest, but there was no santi. He was always restless. Narada Muni came, advised him that "You are a child. Why you are so much agitated by so-called insult, family talks?" And "No, I don't want your advice." He refused. Then Narada Muni gave him initiation, that "This boy is very strong." But actually, when he realized God, then he became svamin krtartho 'smi varam na yace: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "My dear Lord, now I am fully satisfied. I have no desire." This is santi. Even moksa-vamcha is not santi because there is demand: "I want moksa." The karmis, they want sense gratification; the jnanis, they want liberation; the yogis, they want mystic power, asta-siddhi. Only the devotee, he doesn't want. He wants only to serve Krsna. (plane flying over) It is going so low.
Dr. Patel: It is a jumbo.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Shall I go?
Prabhupada: Yes. Jaya. [break]
Devotee (1): Can you explain more about the Stita-dhi Muni, the undisturbed sage? In the purport you explain how he is neither attached nor detached. What is that, that he is neither one or the other?
Prabhupada: There are two things in this material world, attachment and detachment. Somebody is attached. The karmis, everyone, is working. Why so hard? There is attachment. The jnanis, they are renouncing: brahma satya jagan mithya. So a devotee is always satisfied in any condition. He has no attachment or detachment.
Devotee (1): He is simply attached to serving Krsna?
Prabhupada: That is attachment, of course, but not for any purpose. He's simply surrendered to Krsna, and whatever Krsna will do, that's all right. Personally he has no attachment. Suppose Krsna wants to do him something which he doesn't like to do; still he has to do. Just as Arjuna... He did not like to fight, but still, because he understood, "Krsna wants," then he fought. This is neither attachment nor detachment. Actually it is... It was not liked by him. But he did it because Krsna wanted. Therefore, personally he has no attachment or detachment. If Krsna is attached to something, then he becomes attached. If Krsna is detached to something, he becomes detached. That is bhakta's principle. Personally he is neutral. [break] ...the difference between karmi and bhakta. Karmi is attached and detached for his own purpose, and bhakta is attached and detached for Krsna's purpose. Personally he has no attachment or detachment. Krsna says that, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. There are two kinds of principles: attachment and detachment. So mam ekam saranam vraja. So this material attachment and detachment one should give up. He should surrender to Krsna. This is bhakta's principle. So there is no cloud in the sky, eh? Completely clear. [break] ...the sea-going is not dangerous. It is very calm and quiet?
Brahmananda: Sea?
Prabhupada: Sea. Yes.
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: I started during monsoon, (laughs) in September.
Brahmananda: It's monsoon and then...
Prabhupada: Not September, August.
Brahmananda: August. And in the Atlantic that's the hurricane season.
Prabhupada: Hm? Yes.
Brahmananda: On the Atlantic Ocean, that's the hurricane season. It's the worst season.
Prabhupada: Yes. So when I landed in New York-(aside) Hare Krsna -- the captain said that "It is astonishing there was no hurricane in that line." I did not know. At last, he said. Captain said that he was very much anxious "What will happen in Atlantic? This swami is already seasick." Hare Krsna.
Indian man (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Such kind of religious system is rejected. Dharmah projjhita kaitavah. Kaitava means cheating. To cheat God or to be cheated by God, this kind of religion is rejected. But people are very much fond of that kind of religion by which the God is cheated and he is cheated. He will commit all kinds of sins and he will be excused. That means God is cheated. And if he thinks that "I will go on committing sinful; God will excuse me," that is also cheating. He is cheating himself, as if God is so fool that he will go on committing sin and God will excuse. These are cheating. This is not religion. God is personally speaking, yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya-karmanam [Bg. 7.28], and he is thinking that "I will go on committing sinful activities and God will excuse." Why God will excuse? This is foolishness. He can excuse once, twice, thrice, but as a matter of routine, he will commit sinful activities and God will excuse -- this is all nonsense. Pariksit Maharaja has condemned this process. He has compared the kunjara saucavat. Kunjara means elephant. The elephant takes bath in the river or in the lake very minutely, becomes very clean. And as soon as he will come on the shore, he takes some dust and... You will find this. He's such a big animal, but he has no sense that "Now I have washed all dirty things. Again I am taking dirt?" So this kind of knowledge, that "Cleanse yourself by doing prayascitta, and again unclean." If you have cleansed yourself, then keep yourself clean. Why you are uncleaning again? This is foolishness. [break] "What is this, pious activities and sinful activities? These are all old, primitive ideas. Now we are advanced." (Hindi) Hare Krsna. Jaya [break] ...surfing introduced as (Hindi) ...Surfing sport... (Hindi) [break] ...that toothpaste within the box?
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is old. The new one, where it is? Now finished?
Harikesa: No, they are also in the shaving kit.
Prabhupada: Oh. So the new one it is all dried up with glycerin. If they are finished, then prepare the same formula. [break]
Indian man (3): ...not taking bath in the morning. I was not coming to the temple because my bronchitis. And once you told me, "You take without bath. You go to the temple." I started taking bath. I was now coming to the sea because that bronchitis was troubling me. But now... (Hindi) My wife told me, "Don't go. You are a sick man. You are not taking my..." I said, "No, it will be Krsna's mercy only." I am ninety percent happy. Once I give some... Still I think I am, by your grace, I am ninety percent cured now.
Prabhupada: Yes, Krsna's grace.
Indian man (3): Still in a congregation when I sit I get some phlegm. That is why.
Prabhupada: Do you feel any inconvenience while walking?
Indian man (3): No.
Prabhupada: No, no, for bronchitis this open air is very good.
Indian man (3): Good. Ah. That is good. During night, I can't get sleep, so if I go in the evening to the sea, so morning I think... Four days, I am better.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, very good. Even if you cannot walk, you can sit down and breathe the open air. [break] Progress is going on?
Saurabha: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: Temple foundation is fixed up?
Saurabha: The laying concrete, one third has been done and today we start setting up the columns, steel work. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Here Is God--Why Not Accept

June 25, 1975

download  Players


 

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: ...theosophist and the theologist, both classes they have no clear idea of God. Is it not?Dr. Judah: I think this is... Well, I would say they do not have, they do not... I would make a distinction myself between knowing God and knowing about God. In other words, there is knowledge about God which one has in various books, but one does not know God unless one somehow experiences God. I feel that this is the one thing that the bhakti movement of Caitanya has done in that it has allowed its devotees to experience Him, to know Him personally in a way that changes their lives.
Prabhupada: That is the Vedic civilization.
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Prabhupada: Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. These materialistic persons, they do not know what is Visnu or they do not know that his ultimate goal of life is to know Visnu, or God. This is human life. But that is missing. They do not care to know that the ultimate, what is the ultimate goal of human life. This is the defect. Nobody cares to know, especially in this age. So that is the defeat of human civilization. They must know. This is the process, that... By evolution, they have come to nature's way, human form of life. Now they must know what is God. Otherwise it is defeat.
Dr. Judah: That's true.
Prabhupada: The opportunity given by nature, good consciousness to know God, Visnu. Now, practically, take anyone, especially in the western world. Nobody can say what is God. Is it not?
Dr. Judah: It's true.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Dr. Judah: That is quite true.
Prabhupada: So in that position, if we are offering, "Here is God," why do they not accept? What is the objection?
Dr. Judah: There isn't any objection. I think the great problem, of course, in the western world is that the western world has always been involved in materialism and...
Prabhupada: The western world... That means they don't want to know God. So this is very horrible condition.
Dr. Judah: That's true.
Prabhupada: Animal condition. Not only horrible, it is animal condition. They do not want to know God. Just like these animals, they are not interested. So they have no church, the animals, or temple. But in the human society, either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, there is some arrangement for understanding God. Now they are also neglecting that, everyone, all over the world. Now they are clearly... The Communists, they hate to say anything about God. So ultimately they are coming to such position, the Communists, that "No word about God." So this is the position. Now apart from them, just like theologists and theosophists. They are, at least, after understanding what is God, but they cannot ascertain definitely. So why do they not take? We are offering, "Here is God." Where is the objection? Why they should object? If you do not know something and if I give you the information, why you should not take?
Dr. Judah: That's a good question.
Prabhupada: That is my question. [break] Just like in India, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge, we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, "Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there?" Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge. Canakya Pandita says, nicad apy uttama vidya stri-ratnam duskulad api. He says, visad apy amrtam grahyam. Visa, visa means poison. "In the pot of poison, if there is little nectar in, take it." Visad apy amrtam grahyam. Poison is not to be touched, but if there is little nectar in, take it. And amedhyad api kancanam: "And in a filthy place there is gold. Take it." Not that gold has been polluted because it is in the filthy place. If there is gold in the filthy place, don't hesitate. Take it. And nicad apy uttama vidya. Generally, people used to take education from brahmana. So Canakya Pandita advises that "If there is education, actual education, even he is a lower class man, sudra or candala, take it. Accept him as master." And nicad apy uttama vidya. Nicad apy uttama vidya stri-ratnam duskulad api. And in India, according to Vedic civilization, the marriage is done after seeing the family tradition very scrutinizingly. So here it is advised that duskulad api, "In a abominable family, if there is nice girl, educated, beautiful, accept her. Accept her." Nicad apy uttama vidya stri-ratnam. Ratnam means jewel. Wife, she is like jewel although born of a low family, accept. So anything very good, even it is available from a place which is not desirable, one should accept it. So if you are actually seeking after God, so here is God available from Vedic literature. Why don't you take it? Why you should refuse it? That is not very good sign.
Dr. Judah: No, that is true.
Prabhupada: Yes. So we are offering here God. Why should you not take it seriously? I am speaking to you because you have got this Theological... What is that?
Bahulasva: Union.
Prabhupada: Union. So they should take it. If they have no information of actual God, take it from us.
Dr. Judah: Yes, well, I do, I... As I say, as I said last night...
Prabhupada: No, you have got that mentality, I know that. But because you are president or chairman of that center... What is that? Union.
Dr. Judah: I'm chairman of the department of the history and phenomenology of religion.
Prabhupada: So who is the chairman of this union?
Dr. Judah: I'm just the chairman of this one department of the history and phenomenology of religion.
Prabhupada: That's... Then you are also important officer. So you can induce them, that "Here is God."
Dr. Judah: Well, I'm going to try to do what I can to..., as I told you to...
Prabhupada: (laughing) No, no, if they do not take, refuse to take, so what kind of theologians they are? That is my... Here is the knowledge. Why one should refuse to take it?
Dr. Judah: When you have your temple there in Berkeley, I want to continue on chanting and being with the devotees and doing what I can to further Krsna consciousness in the...
Prabhupada: Krsna, in the Bhagavad-gita... If you take this that "Krsna is Indian, Krsna is Hindu, we shall not take," but the words Krsna, if you take it, "God said," or whatever you..., so the wordings are God's. Just like Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. "There is nobody, superior element than Me." So God can say that. So you remove the word, Krsna uvaca, but take the words of God. Who can be superior than God?
Dr. Judah: It's true.
Prabhupada: So in this way if you read simply Bhagavad-gita and separating the word Krsna, it is God's word. All factual. So why should you not take the science of God?
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Prabhupada: God can say that there is no more greater principle than Me. Is it not? You may accept anyone God, but God can say that. So that is the statement in Bhagavad-gita:
mattah parataram nanyat
kincid asti dhananjaya
mayi sarvam idam protam
sutre mani-gana iva
 [Bg. 7.7]
Every word is God's word. You may accept Krsna God or not, the words are God's words. That is Bhagavad-gita. [break]
Bahulasva: ...statements like that in the Bible, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm? Hm?
Bahulasva: You'll not find statements like that in the Bible, that "There is no one superior to Me." You don't find those things in the Bible.
Prabhupada: No.
Bahulasva: A little indication that there's God, but no real philosophy. [break]
Prabhupada: ...manufacturing so many things, United Nations, World Health Organization, and this philanthropism, but the real thing is wanting that the human life is meant for understanding God, there is no such organization. This is the only organization, Krsna consciousness movement. [break] ...neglectful I do not know. [break]
Devotee: I'm very happy in my new engagement. I'm finding very much success now. We have made four devotees since I have left, three days.
Prabhupada: Oh, very good. [break] ...the definition of God according to the theologicians?
Dr. Judah: Well, there would be many different definitions of God, I suppose, in Christian theology.
Prabhupada: Why many?
Dr. Judah: It involves various theologies...
Prabhupada: There is no summary?
Dr. Judah: No. There is no actual statement of any one person or any concept concerning God that would be accepted by all Christians. There are various theologies about God, as I said.
Prabhupada: No, theologists, some of the prominent theologist, what do they say? How they describe God?
Dr. Judah: Well, it depends upon whether one is a Lutheran or a Calvinist or...
Prabhupada: Let any one of them say something, I want to hear.
Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, this is what the professor yesterday was talking about, that there are many different theologies and some people accept one and some accept another.
Bahulasva: Prabhupada wants to hear one of them, though. What does the Catholic theology say about God? Thomas Aquinas?
Dr. Judah: Well, I'm not too good at interpreting the Catholic theology. But they would, the Catholic theology would say that God is the father, that there is the son who was born who is the son of God, and...
Prabhupada: Now, God has got son. That is all right, but what do you mean by God? Everyone has got son, but that does not mean everyone is God. What is the definition of God? You have got son. I have got son. So God has got son. That does not mean He is God. Everyone has got son.
Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, you see, the Roman Catholics, if we were to consider this then again, would say that the son of God is one with God and the Holy Spirit as the Trinity...
Prabhupada: And again, the description of the son.
Dr. Judah: Yes, the three are one.
Prabhupada: That is all right, but who is God? What is the definition of God? Just like king. We can describe, "King means who has got a big kingdom, a large tract of land. He is ruling over it," some description. So what is the definition of God in that...?
Dr. Judah: God is also the creator, they would say.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's nice.
Dr. Judah: Creator of the world.
Prabhupada: Yes. Then the next question will be that if He is creator, then He has got nice brain. Otherwise how this wonderful creation is there. Everything is going on... Just like this big sea, God is creator; therefore although is a vast water, we are safely standing here because we know God has created in such a way although it is very vast it cannot go, cannot come up to this.
Dr. Judah: It's true.
Prabhupada: So how much great brain He has got. He has created in such a way. So we have to understand like that, that "God is creator, so how perfect creator He is." In this way we have to study theology, item by item.
Dr. Judah: Yes. And God is also, they would say, the judge of man, judging man for his sins, and, of course...
Prabhupada: So therefore man is subordinate to God. So why the people are denying the supremacy of God? Just like so-called scientists, rascals, they say, "There is no God." Immediately they should be taken as rascals. Why they should be given this title, "scientist"? He does not know who is his superior. They should be condemned immediately. Anyone who denies God, he is a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher amongst the fools, but he is a rascal. He does not know his subordinate position. Immediately designate him, "You are rascal. You have no position because you do not know your superior." In this way you have to study. Then these rascals will be caught up, how great rascals they are, denying the existence of God. So we have to teach people like that, that "Don't follow these rascals." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,
na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
 asuram bhavam asritah
 [Bg. 7.15]
Anyone who is not God conscious, Krsna conscious, he is immediately grouped amongst the miscreants, duskrtinah. Krti means very meritorious. Just like these scientists. They have got good merit, but that merit is being applied for sinful activities. Just like expert thief, rogue. He has got merit, but he is applying the merit for sinful activities. And next word is mudha. Why they are misusing in this way? Because they are rascal, mudha, ass. You have seen yesterday film, the ass?
Bahulasva: Last night in the movie?
Brahmananda: The donkey was carrying that big heavy load.
Dr. Judah: Oh yes, yes.
Prabhupada: So they are heavily loaded, and they agree. So these rascals are asses. They are simply heavily loaded, but they do not know why he should agree to bear so much load. That is ass. (laughter) They take great responsibility. You see? So they are asses. The ass does not know, "Why I am taking so much load? And the master will give me little grass. So grass I can get anywhere. Why I agree to take his load?" Therefore this example, ass, is given. He does not know his real interest. Mudha. If you bear some load, you must have some interest in it, but he has no interest, and he is carrying the load. Therefore ass.
Dharmadhyaksa: So, Srila Prabhupada, all these social problems, then, in society are basically caused by them denying God. That is the ultimate...
Prabhupada: No, because they are asses. Why don't you say like that? (laughter) Because they are big asses and people are following them. That is the misfortune. They are simply bluffing that "We are very great." Just like these scientists, they simply bluffing that "We went to the moon planet. We are doing this, doing that," and taking large salaries, but they are asses. And people are also asses. Therefore they accept, "Oh, he is a big man, cheating us very nicely."
Bahulasva: Srila Prabhupada, theologians also say that God is the... [break] ...person He is.
Prabhupada: So we can describe. [break] Let them take it. If they cannot describe, then take the description from us. We can give. That is knowledge. Nicad apy uttama vidya stri-ratnam duskulad api. Why they should hesitate, "No, no, why shall I take from him? He is a Hindu." Or "He is a Muslim." What is this? Knowledge has to be taken wherever it is available.
Bahulasva: In the Bible it says that no one has ever seen God.
Prabhupada: But then why don't you go who has seen God? Why remain foolish? That is the Vedic injunction. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you do not know, if you have not seen, then go to guru. Why should I sit idle, "I have not seen; I will never see"? Is that knowledge? Go there where you can see. That is intelligence. "Nobody has seen. Therefore there is no use of seeing." What is this argument? This is no argument.
Bahulasva: They also say that no one can ever be pure, that everyone is doomed to be a sinner.
Prabhupada: Well, that is... Atmavat manyate jagat. That is the conditioned soul's qualification that if he is a fool, he thinks other, fools. Everyone, he thinks, "He is like me." That is nature. Atmavat manyate jagat. "Everyone thinks others like himself." If he is a fool, he thinks all are. So these things are no argument. Nobody has seen God? How do you take the statistics? Can you say like that, any statistics, that nobody has... Maybe you have not seen him, one who has seen God. That is quite possible because you have not scrutinizingly studied all the men of the world. Then how you can say, "Nobody has seen"? You have not seen the man who has seen Him. He will not admit his fault. He will accuse others, "Nobody has seen God." Why? You may not have seen, but why you say, "Nobody has seen"? You have not seen that person who has seen God. Therefore you say like that.
Bahulasva: So those people who wrote the Bible did not see God.
Prabhupada: That is... when God is canvassing, "Here I am, Krsna," they will not see it. And still, they accuse, "Nobody has seen."
Dr. Judah: Of course, in Christianity, which many of the Christians, I feel, are not following as closely as they should and have in the past, there is the idea, for example, in the Roman Catholic church, for example, at the time of the Mass, of experiencing the presence of God and there have been Christian mystics who have felt that they have experienced God. For example, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, and various ones.
Prabhupada: So they must give description of God. If you have seen this rose flower, then you can give a description. If you cannot give a description, then how you have seen rose flower?
Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, they have tried to give descriptions, but, of course, I think all descriptions that have been given of God are, as descriptions are inadequate. Because in my own feeling I believe that the full knowledge of God comes through the actual experience of God, experiencing God in our lives.
Prabhupada: Yes, that experience you can get. Just like God is describing Himself. Now, why don't you take that? Your description may be defective because you are imperfect. But if God Himself is giving His, I mean to say, identification, why don't you take it? Not only gives description, He acts according to the description. When Krsna was present, He says, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7], "There is no more superior element." He proved it when He was present. There was no more superior power than Him when Krsna was present. In His opulence, in His richness, in His strength, in His education -- everything, all topmost, Krsna. All topmost. The proof is that because you get the topmost knowledge, therefore Bhagavad-gita is read all over the world, accepted, topmost knowledge. All scholars, all philosophers, all religionists, they read it.
Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, I, of course, have always felt that...
Prabhupada: Now big, big scholars, they have taken the trouble to write on Bhagavad-gita. But nobody has taken the trouble to write on other scriptures like Bible or Koran. Nobody has taken. No scholar, no philosopher have tried to comment or study because they know it is not very important. Here is important. This is the proof, wisest. And that is only ABCD of God's knowledge. So people should take advantage. It is accepted indirectly. There are so many editions of Bhagavad-gita, in your country, English. Why they take trouble to read Bhagavad-gita so carefully? Big, big scholars, philosophers, why? [break] It is the impersonal, cloth. So Sankaracarya has tried to impress this fact, but the rascals followed in a different way. Just like a cloth, big cloth, that is impersonal. Now, you cut it into coat. It becomes like person. So similarly this whole material world is impersonal, but because we have taken a certain portion of it and make my body, it looks like person. And God is not like that. He is spiritual person. He has nothing to do with material. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. What Sankaracarya impressed, that they are after demigods, so "The demigods, they are not actual person. Real person is Narayana." That is Sankaracarya's version. Narayana... You will find in his comment on the Bhagavad-gita. First word he writes, narayanah paro 'vyaktad: "Narayana has nothing to do with this material world." And he accepts in his comment, sa bhagavan svayam krsnah: "That Narayana has appeared as Krsna." And he has given specific name of His father as "the son of Devaki and Vasudeva" so that nobody can misidentify. If you have got Sankara's bhasya, commentary on Bhagavad-gita, you bring it I shall show you. [break] Krsna also confirms. That verse, which we were reading last evening... Krsna says, maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murtina: [Bg. 9.4] "This jagat, this material world, is impersonal. And that is My energy. Therefore the whole world is resting upon Me, but I am not there. As person, I am not there." This is the statement of Bhagavad-gita. Just like the sunshine is spreading all over the universe, but the sun is aloof. Take this example. Not that because the sunshine is here, we are now getting, the sun has come here. The sun is shining from the distant place. He is aloof. Similarly, God is person and His shining is all this creation. That is impersonal.
Dr. Judah: Like the rays of the sun.
Prabhupada: Yes. And Sankaracarya's... Not Sankaracarya. His followers have interpreted, "Because God has become all-pervading, then where is God person? He is finished." But they do not see the sun, that although the sun is all-pervading, still, he is maintaining his identity.
Dr. Judah: Yes. That's the bhedabheda philosophy.
Prabhupada: Yes. Bhedabheda philosophy, that is actual philosophy. Acintya-bhedabheda.
Dr. Judah: God is both one and dual.
Prabhupada: Yes. Simultaneously. The same example. The sunshine and the sun one, light and heat. But still, the sun is different from the light. [ ...them about going to the moon planet?
Dr. Judah: What happened, do you say, to the...
Brahmananda: To the program of going to the moon.
Dr. Judah: I don't know. But they've stopped it.
Brahmananda: Why?
Dr. Judah: I don't know. One of the problems has been probably the criticism of the American people that so much money was being spent on going to the moon when there were so many other needs for the money to be used.
Brahmananda: With such little result coming from it.
Dr. Judah: Yes. The amount, the expense, whether the expense could actually be justified to continue on in the way that they had. [break]
Prabhupada: ...to Venus? They say they are going to Venus?
Brahmananda: The Russians have sent a spaceship to Venus.
Revatinandana: It's unmanned. There are no men in it. They are going to Venus but there is no man in the ship.
Prabhupada: Now, why they are going to Venus? They have failed to achieve anything by going to the moon. Now why another attempt, to go to the Venus?
Dr. Judah: Well, the usual explanation that they have given, as I recall, is that these explorations give man more of a knowledge about how the world was created, our universe was created.
Prabhupada: That is another speculation.
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Bahulasva: Why do they have to go to Venus, though, to figure that out? They have a planet here they can't get any information out of.
Prabhupada: Why they are anxious to know how the world was created? It is already created. What is your credit? [break] ...and simply bluffing people, that's all. [break] It is already there. The nice creation is already there.
Dr. Judah: Accept it as it is.
Dharmadhyaksa: And be joyful. But they want to try to imitate the creation.
Prabhupada: That is their foolishness. "Where angels dare not, foolish rush in. Where angels dare not, fools rush in." So big, big, giant, saintly persons, they simply admired, and they are going to understand it. What is that? And they can create, like that? They cannot create even an ant, a small ant, and they are going to create, imitate the creation of God. Just see. And we have to believe such fools. (laughter) This is our misfortune.
Dharmadhyaksa: Srila Prabhupada, because the Christian theologians do not have very much information about God, they are being very much influenced by these scientists and their conceptions.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19]. The same example. A lion is accepted as the king. He is considered to be the king of the beasts in the forest. And he is very much praised. But a human being will see that the lion is also an animal and those who are praising him, they are also animals. Is it not? So if some animals praises another animal, does it mean that the animal is very big? It may be very big for these animals, but lion is not very big thing to the human being. They can capture it. It is nothing. Actually, they capture and keep it in the zoo. So for a human being both the big animal and a small animal, they are animals, although the small animals praise the big animal. Do you follow what I said?
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Prabhupada: So here a big animal is being praised by a small animal, but both of them are animals.
Revatinandana: So in other words the big leaders and the scientists, they are thinking that "When I am president or when I am scientist -- then this time we have landed on Venus -- I will be praised."
Prabhupada: Yes, but who will praise?
Revatinandana: By other animals.
Prabhupada: By other animals. Not a human being.
Revatinandana: Right. But they're thinking, "I will become great," even though we know they are not great.
Prabhupada: No, how they will know? He is animal. How he can know his position? And especially when the other small animals praise him he thinks that "I have become very big."
Revatinandana: So that is their real motivation for going to Venus. But it isn't very intelligent.
Prabhupada: Yes, "The small animals will praise." That is good policy. I think we shall now go this way. Time is...?
Bahulasva: Twenty to seven.
Prabhupada: In Bhagavatam everything has been described.
Dr. Judah: Yes, I received the first part of the Srimad-Bhagavatam that you translated and sent to me, for which I again thank you. I brought it with me to read on the plane. [break]
Dharmadhyaksa: ...true that now theologians are trying to make mathematical models to understand God?
Dr. Judah: Mathematical models?
Dharmadhyaksa: This Whitehead, that Alfred North Whitehead, in process theology?
Dr. Judah: Well, I don't know that that would quite be true. I don't know Whitehead really. But it is a... I don't know whether that could be said to be true or not. I really don't know. [break]
Jayadvaita: ...that Altheiser spoke.
Dr. Judah: Oh, yes.
Jayadvaita: That God is, that slogan, "God is dead," that was started by a Christian theologian, Altheiser.
Dr. Judah: Yes, that philosophy of Altheiser's, and Hamilton and some of the others, so-called "death of God theology," of course, was a phase through which Christianity went through but I think has lost its, certainly, its efficacy at the present time. I think it's probably had an effect certainly on some, but I would not say that is characteristic of Christian theology today. In fact, I see a swinging back to a more conservative position. And, of course, as far as the people are concerned, there is this need for an experiential relationship with God, which has gone through all of the churches and which is called the charismatic renewal, and this has been very influential in many of the churches.
Jayadvaita: But he was trying to say that because God is dead, now we have to revive our relationship with Christ. And then he equated that that everyone is, that means we have to have a relationship with all the human beings.
Dr. Judah: Yes. It is put on a, certainly, on a more humanistic scheme.
Jayadvaita: And now people want to know Krsna.
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Revatinandana: Did they actually seriously think that the Father was dead?
Dr. Judah: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: ...dead, then what kind of God he is?
Dr. Judah: Yeah. He wouldn't be any.
Prabhupada: If the God dies and ordinary animal also dies...
Dr. Judah: Yes, it was what they called "atheistic Christianity." (laughter) But as I say, I do not feel that this is representative of Christianity today. And I think that the very fact that this "death of God theology" did become so popular at one particular period is one of the particular reasons why more people have wanted, then have rejected this and have wanted to find some experience of God, find it in their lives to prove, as it were, that He does exist. I think this has been certainly one of the instruments that has caused people to try to seek the reality of God in various ways. In Sufism, I know, in Berkeley they're seeking God, and in the Vedanta and in many other of the different movements, some of them from India and some of them from Japan, particularly in the case of Zen Buddhism which has become very popular. And then, of course, there's always the Sokagaktii(?) in the Bay area which also is very influential among many of the university students, and which, of course, does chanting also. It's a form of bhakti in Buddhism.
Prabhupada: Actually, nobody has got clear idea of God. This is the difficulty. Nobody knows. We can challenge them. Nobody knows what is God. We can challenge. [break] (in car)
Dr. Judah: ...o'clock this morning.
Prabhupada: Yes, everyone rises at three o'clock.
Dr. Judah: I had an interesting dream last night, and after dreaming it, I woke up and stayed awake until I got up, until I was called at five. The dream was... It seems to be a mixture of the events that occurred last night. I was in a temple and doing kirtana with a number of devotees, and in the middle of the kirtana, a little child crawled in on the floor into the temple, and we all stopped and talked to the little child. And I'm reminded... And I thought, "Now what does this mean?" And I remember then. I was talking with Dharma just before I went to bed, and there was this little child that came in from next door there, and so he, we gave him some prasadam, and so I feel that this all got mixed together in this dream.
Prabhupada: Dream means some mixed ideas.
Dr. Judah: Yeah. Yes. An interesting mixture of things.
Jayatirtha: Prabhupada gives the example that during the day you may see gold and you may see a mountain. So at night you dream of a golden mountain. [break]
Dr. Judah: ...devotees, I think a long time, haven't you?
Jayatirtha: Yes, Brahmananda was one of the original...
Dr. Judah: I've seen his picture so often times in the Back to God magazine playing the mrdanga drum.
Jayatirtha: What is it, ten years, Brahmananda? Or nine years?
Brahmananda: Well, '66. August '66.
Dr. Judah: August '66. You are one of the very earliest.
Prabhupada: Actually, I began this movement from July '66. I came in '65 but I could not do anything. I was loitering here and there. Actually, I began my preaching work from '66, June, July, I think, yes.
Dr. Judah: You must have been one of the hippies he converted there in Tompkins Park then.
Brahmananda: Well, I wasn't quite a hippie. (laughter) There weren't hippies at that time. It was just beginning. So I had been to the university. I graduated NYU. But I'd been to India.
Dr. Judah: You had been to India?
Brahmananda: Yes. I was planning on going back also. I wanted to take a further degree. I was applying for a Fulbright.
Dr. Judah: I see. [break]
Prabhupada: ...by simply inquiring about Krsna, you have become Krsnaized.
Dr. Judah: Yes, I think, yes.
Prabhupada: Because several times you had to utter the word Krsna.
Dr. Judah: Krsna has been certainly a great influence in my life, the chanting and being with the devotees. It has been a transforming thing.
Brahmananda: I was looking at your book last evening. I thought it was very nice.
Dr. Judah: Thank you.
Brahmananda: It's very scholarly and scientific and at the same time sympathetic. So I think it will make everyone happy.
Dr. Judah: Yes. I hope so. I dedicated it to the devotees and to their parents.
Brahmananda: Yes. To breach the gap, yoga. (laughter)
Dr. Judah: It might help some reconciliations in some cases.
Jayatirtha: That's a good idea for devotees to give to their parents. [break]
Dr. Judah: ...it has many imperfections of which I am well aware. Mistakes that I hope in another edition can be corrected.
Prabhupada: But many parents are very happy because their...
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Prabhupada: They are very happy. Some of them come to me to give me thanks.
Dr. Judah: Yes, I'm sure that is the case.
Brahmananda: We've had recently just some of our devotees... There was one boy, senior man, he left the movement for awhile, and his mother told him to go back.
Dr. Judah: She did?
Brahmananda: Yes. Now he is back, and he is very thankful to his mother.
Dr. Judah: That's interesting.
Jayatirtha: She said, "When you were in the movement, you were a very nice boy, soft spoken, didn't have any bad habits. Now you've left and you've become a debaucher, drunkard. You should go back." [break]
Dr. Judah: I understand that Kesava, who phoned me last week in Berkeley, that his brother Karandhara is over in Iran now and working as some kind of an accountancy agency for the Iranian government, and...
Brahmananda: They work on contracts.
Dr. Judah: On the contracts.
Jayatirtha: One of our members there is a partner in Arthur Young and Company.
Dr. Judah: Of which?
Jayatirtha: Arthur Young. It's a big accounting firm. So he's one of our elder devotees and he's manager of the firm there. Karandhara went there to work with him. [break] ...article, Brahmananda Maharaja?
Brahmananda: Which article?
Jayatirtha: That one that Karandhara sent.
Brahmananda: Yes. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.