You must inquire about the
Absolute Truth. In the next verse it is explained, vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj jnanam [SB 1.2.11]. Tattva. Tattva means truth. The truth is
explained by the tattva-vit, one who knows the truth. How? Brahmeti paramatmeti
bhagavan iti sabdyate. He is explained as Brahman, as Paramatma, or as Bhagavan.
This is Vedanta-sutra. Now one should learn what is Bhagavan, what is Brahman,
what is Paramatma. In this way one should make advancement of his spiritual
consciousness. That is the purpose of Vedanta-sutra.Pusta Krsna: Can I ask
another question, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes. The Vedantists they
have come from the impersonal explanation of Sankaracarya. Sariraka-bhasya. But
they simply give stress on the Sariraka-bhasya, but there are other bhasyas.
Bhasyas means commentary. And the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the natural commentary by
the author himself. Besides that, there are Vedanta-bhasyas written by the
Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami, and all the Vaisnava acaryas.
Unfortunately, they do not care to read all these Vedanta-bhasyas. They simply
take Sariraka-bhasya and become impersonalist and call themselves as
Vedantist.
Pusta Krsna: What is the reason for that?
Prabhupada: Reason
means people do not know. They cheat. Suppose I present something, a
misconception, and if there are others also who can speak something on the...
There are two lawyers. One is speaking one point of law, another lawyer is
speaking. So if you take one side only, then how you will understand? So they
are simply reading this Sariraka-bhasya. They are not reading other bhasyas,
just like the Srimad-Bhagavatam, which is natural. And they are cheating people.
That's all. Why there are two lawyers? Two opposite parties, there are two
lawyers. One lawyer says this law is like this, and the other party says, "No,
it is this." And the judge is there, he will take what is the real meaning. But
this interpretation is required when things are not clear. Now the Vedanta-sutra
says, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1], "The Absolute Truth is that from whom
everything comes in, emanates." Now, here is... In the Bhagavad-gita Krsna said
that aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Clearly. That
"I am the origin of everything, and everything comes from Me." So why don't you
take it? Why simply you remain theoretically understood that Absolute Truth is
that from which everything emanates. But when the Absolute Truth comes before
you and says that "I am the origin of everything. Everything comes from Me." Why
don't you accept Krsna as Absolute Truth? Why do you take the so-called
impersonalist view only, that God has no form? Here is God speaking, person. Why
don't you take it? If you want to be cheated, then who can stop you? Here Krsna
says, sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto [Bg. 15.15]. Find out this verse. Sarvasya
caham hrdi sannivisto mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca...
Hari-sauri: Vedais
ca sarvair aham eva vedyo...
Prabhupada: Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham. Read it?
Hari-sauri:
sarvasya caham hrdi
sannivisto
mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca
vedais ca sarvair aham eva
vedyo
vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham
[Bg. 15.15]
Prabhupada:
Vedanta-krd, I am the compiler of Vedanta. Why these rascals do not take who
compiled Vedanta? Vyasadeva is the incarnation of God. He compiled Vedanta. Why
he does not take the original Vedantist. Here it is clearly stated, vedanta-krd.
Read the purport.
Hari-sauri: "Translation: I am seated in everyone's heart
and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am
I to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedanta and I am the knower of the
Vedas."
Prabhupada: So they do not go to the compiler of Vedanta. They go to
a rascal. How they will understand Vedanta? Suppose I have written this book. If
you cannot understand something, if you come directly to me, that is real. Why
do you go to a rascal who has nothing to do with this book? If some rascal
claims that "I am Vedanti," so your description should... Why shall I not go to
the real compiler of Vedanta. Why shall I go to a rascal? That means they are
rascals. They are being cheated. Let them take to Bhagavad-gita and let them
take to Srimad-Bhagavatam. They will understand Vedanta. They're real Vedantist.
But these rascals, they're avoiding Bhagavad-gita and avoiding Srimad-Bhagavatam
and claiming themselves as Vedantist. So if you go to a cheater you'll be
cheated. That is your business. Read the purport.
Hari-sauri: "The Supreme
Lord is situated as Paramatma in everyone's heart and it is from Him that all
activities are initiated. The living entity forgets everything of his past life,
but he has to act according to the direction of the Supreme Lord, who is witness
to all his work. Therefore he begins his work according to his past deeds.
Required knowledge is supplied to him and remembrance is given to him and he
forgets also about his past life. Thus the Lord is not only all-pervading, He is
also localized in every individual heart. He awards the different fruitive
results. He is not only worshipable as the impersonal Brahman, the Supreme
Personality of Godhead and the localized Paramatma, but as the form of the
incarnation of the Vedas as well. The Vedas give the right direction to the
people so that they can properly mold their lives and come back to Godhead, back
to home. The Vedas offer knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna,
and Krsna in His incarnation as Vyasadeva is the compiler of the Vedanta-sutra.
The commentation of the Vedanta-sutra by Vyasadeva in the Srimad-Bhagavatam
gives the real understanding of the Vedanta-sutra. The Supreme Lord is so full
that for the deliverance of the conditioned soul, He is the supplier and the
digester of foodstuff, the witness of his activity, the giver of knowledge in
the form of Vedas, and as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna, the
teacher of the Bhagavad-gita, He is worshipable by the conditioned soul. Thus
God is all good, God is all-merciful. Anantah pravistah sasta jananam. The
living entity forgets as soon as he quits his present body, but he begins his
work again initiated by the Supreme Lord. Although he forgets, the Lord gives
him the intelligence to renew his work where he ended his last life. So not only
does a living entity enjoy or suffer in this world according to the dictation
from the Supreme Lord situated locally in the heart, but he receives the
opportunity to understand Vedas from Him. If one is serious to understand the
Vedic knowledge, then Krsna gives the required intelligence. Why does he present
the Vedic knowledge for understanding? Because a living entity individually
needs to understand Krsna. Vedic literature confirms this. Yo'sau sarvair vedair
giyate. In all Vedic literature, beginning from the four Vedas, Vedanta-sutra
and the Upanisads and Puranas, the glories of the Supreme Lord are celebrated.
By performing Vedic rituals, discussing the Vedic philosophy and worshiping the
Lord in devotional service, He is attained. Therefore the purpose of the Vedas
is to understand Krsna. The Vedas give us direction to understand Krsna and the
process of understanding. The ultimate goal is the Supreme Personality of
Godhead. Vedanta-sutra confirms this in the following words: tat tu samanvayat.
One can attain perfection by understanding Vedic literature, and one can
understand his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead by
performing the different processes. Thus one can approach Him and at the end
attain the supreme goal, who is no other than the Supreme Personality of
Godhead. In this verse, however, the purpose of the Vedas, the understanding of
the Vedas, and the goal of the Vedas are clearly defined."
Prabhupada: He
clearly says, vedanta-krd. "I am the compiler of..." So why one should go to
learn Vedanta from others?
Pusta Krsna: How does bhakti tie into the
Vedantic, the conclusion of Vedantic knowledge or wisdom? He says here that
bhakti is the most suitable and easiest path of God realization. This is
proclaimed, but the Vedantic teachings... He says in the Vedantic teaching the
stress is on jnana. Is that a fact?
Prabhupada: Jnana, what is jnana? Jnana
means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita: bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan
mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So unless one surrenders to Krsna, there is no jnana.
This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jnana. There is no knowledge at
all. Vedanta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject
matter of ultimate knowledge is Krsna, God. So if one does not know who is God,
who is Krsna, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a
rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is
explained, that when one understands that Krsna is everything.... Vasudevah
sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. When one understands that
Vasudeva, Krsna, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no
knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti
sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative
method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramatma, localized aspect. That
is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of
Godhead Krsna. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is the final
knowledge. But if you do not understand Krsna, then where is your knowledge?
Knowledge, half-way knowledge is not knowledge. Complete knowledge. That
complete knowledge is possible, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gita, bahunam
janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. Those who are striving to acquire knowledge, such
persons, after many, many births, when actually by the grace of God and by the
grace of a devotee comes to the knowledge, then he agrees, "Oh, vasudevah sarvam
iti [Bg. 7.19], everything is Krsna." Sa mahatma, that mahatma, great soul is
very rare to be found. Sudurlabhah. Durlabhah means very rare to be seen but the
word is used sudurlabhah, very, very rare. So you cannot find such a mahatma who
understands clearly Krsna. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye, yatatam
api siddhanam kascin... [Bg. 7.3]. Siddha means liberated. So one may become
liberated even that.... but from that liberated position again he falls down
unless he understands the Supreme Person, Krsna. Aruhya krcchrena param padam
tatah patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. Unless he comes to the
final understanding of the Absolute Truth, Krsna, he'll fall down. Therefore so
many Vedantists, they first of all, they give up this world brahma satyam jagan
mithya, this world is false. But again they come down and they become busy in
doing some philanthropic work, opening hospitals.... Why? If the world is false,
why you are coming down again on this platform? That means they could not get
any substance by their so-called renouncement of this world. Aruhya krcchrena,
for going to that platform of siddhi, liberation, they had to undergo so much
difficulties and austerities but still, even going there.... Just like these
people are going to the moon planet and.... Actually whether they have gone or
not, that is a doubtful thing, but the thing is, why they are coming down again?
That is our challenge. If you have gone to the moon planet then colonise there.
But why you have come down again and do not talk anything about. What do you
think?
Brahmatirtha: Well I couldn't say. They've been there they
say.
Prabhupada: They say, you believe, but we are common man, lay man, we
say that if you have gone there, why you do not live there?
Brahmatirtha:
Yes, they just bring back rocks to show us, we have rocks here.
Prabhupada:
If there is rock, if there is sand, then why don't you colonise there? What is
their answer? If there is same sand, same rock there, then why not... [break]
...some money and can bring some sand and bluff people that you have gone to
moon planet. And people are satisfied, they're paying for another excursion to
the Mars. This is going on. If you have gone there, there is land. If you fly in
the sky and if you get a land then you can stay there. And because you cannot
stay there, you come back again. So their... The Mayavadis position is there,
aruhya krcchrena param, they merge into the impersonal Brahman but there is no
place to stay, they come down again to this material world. You may go many
thousands and millions of miles in the sky but you want to stay somewhere. But
if you cannot get any place to stay then again you come to this Moscow and New
York. So our enquiry is that if you have gone there, then why don't you stay
there? What is the answer? Hm? Kirtanananda Maharaj?
Kirtanananda: They say
the atmosphere is not suitable.
Prabhupada: Then why rascal, you go there?
(laughter) And spend so much money, rascal? You could not understand the
atmosphere is not good for us, go there and spend so much
money?
Brahmatirtha: They impress the people.
Prabhupada: That means they
are bluffer and they bluffing the all fools and rascals. That's all. He could
not understand before going there, before spending so much money the atmosphere
is not good?
Hari-sauri: But without personal, direct experience
they...
Prabhupada: For your direct whims you have to spend so much money?
The people are so befooled they do not challenge them. Yes. Everyone knows,
suppose one is coming to the western country, Europe and America, we knew it,
that it is cold country, we must take proper dress. And we have come and we are
staying. So this is knowledge. So if you do not know what is the atmosphere
there, what do you spend so much money? And again you are going to the Mars. Are
you fixed up what is the position there? Then you'll again bring something, some
dust and rock. (laughter) This business will go on at the expense of the... You
can do. You have got money. You can do that. But we are Indians, we are coming
from poor country. If you spend so much money for nothing, that is very, not
very palatable for us. If one tenth of the expenditure you would have given to
us for spreading this Krsna consciousness movement... No. Not a single paisa
they will give. And they'll spoil money for going to the moon planet and bring
some dust. That's ... Kirtanananda Maharaja is struggling to construct a small
residential quarter here, and he has to beg, he has to collect, he has done...
Why the government does not pay? "Here so many people are living. Let them live
comfortably." But they'll spend this money, millions of dollars, and to bring
some dust. Is that very sane government? And people are so fool that they do not
challenge the government, "Why you are spending for nothing?" They can do that.
They brought back Nixon. Why not stop this unnecessary expenditure? Hm?
Kirtanananda Maharaja?
Kirtanananda: It makes perfect sense,
Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. For nothing. And it is sure certainly you can
write down, their Mars going also will be failure. Let it, you take in writing.
I may die. I am old man. Take it down. It will be failure. I told ten years
before that "It is childish." One press reporter inquired in San Francisco, what
is your... "No, this is childish, wasting money." The reporter came to see me in
Los Angeles. He remembered that. If you want to spend for nothing like that, you
can do that. You have got money.
Brahmatirtha: If you say to a politician,
"Give Srila Prabhupada money..." Like I said to one man running for governor of
this state, I said, "Why can't you help the community in New
Vrindaban?"
Prabhupada: Oh, you said?
Brahmatirtha: He cited to me so many
rules and regulations. They're not interested. They're interested in pleasing
themselves. A man runs for government, his whole position to run for governor is
to please himself so that he can become rich.
Prabhupada: That's it. Here,
you are right. Sense gratification. Nobody wants to do anything. Nixon captured
the presidential post for his own satisfaction. And when the people found that
"Here is a trick," they agitated and got him down. So this is the difficulty,
that andha yathandhair upaniyamanas the 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [SB
7.5.31]. We are blind and we are being guided by blind men. So the result is
catastrophe.
Pusta Krsna: Can I ask another question, Srila Prabhupada?
Question number nine. Is a guru essential to one to enter the spiritual path and
attain the goal, and how does one recognize one's guru?
Prabhupada: Yes. That
is explained, that guru is necessary. In the Bhagavad-gita when Krsna and Arjuna
were talking as friend, there was no conclusion. The talking was going on but no
conclusion was made. Therefore Arjuna decided to accept Krsna as his guru. Find
out this verse.
Karpanya-dosopahata-svabhavah.
Hari-sauri:
karpanya-dosopahata-svabhavah
prcchami
tvam dharma-sammudha-cetah
yac chreyah syan niscitam bruhi tan me
sisyas
te 'ham sadhi mam tvam prapannam
[Bg. 2.7]
"Now I am confused about
my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am
asking you to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am your disciple and a
soul surrendered unto you. Please instruct me."
Prabhupada: Yes. So therefore
guru is necessary. Everyone is perplexed. Nobody can decide himself. Even a
physician, a medical man, when he is sick, he does not make his own treatment.
He calls for another physician because he is sick, his brain is not in order.
How he can prescribe the real medicine for himself? That is natural. So
similarly, when we are perplexed, bewildered, we cannot make any solution, at
that time the right person, guru, is required. It is essential. You cannot avoid
it. So in our present existence we are all perplexed. Arjuna is representating
the perplexed position of the materialistic person. And we are actually all
perplexed. So under the circumstances, to give us real direction a guru is
required. Now, here is the example that Arjuna decided Krsna as guru. He did not
go to anyone else to accept as guru. The explanation is there. Find out. Na hi
prapasyami. "Without you I don't find anybody..."
Hari-sauri: Na hi
prapasyami mamapanudyad yac chokam ucchosanam indriyanam, avapya bhumav
asapatnam rddham rajyam suranam api cadhipatyam [Bg. 2.8]. "I can find no means
to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not be able to
destroy it even if I win an unrivalled kingdom on the earth..."
Prabhupada:
No. There is another verse that "Without You I do not find anyone else who can
give me real..."
Hari-sauri: You know that one?
Pusta Krsna:
No.
Devotee: The doubt when... The fallen yogi. "Who else can...? I think
so.
Hari-sauri: I'll look it up in the...
Prabhupada: In the, is the,...
There is... What are you finding?
Hari-sauri: I'll look it up in the Sanskrit
index.
Prabhupada: What is the sloka? The sloka I do not remember exactly,
but there is continuation. You read the whole thing. What is that
chapter?
Hari-sauri: This is Chapter Two.
Prabhupada: Begin
it.
Hari-sauri: Start at the beginning of the chapter?
Prabhupada: Um,
hm.
Hari-sauri: "Seeing Arjuna full of compassion and very sorrowful, his
eyes brimming with tears, Madhusudana, Krsna, spoke the following
words."
Prabhupada: One translation of every verse, go on,
read.
Hari-sauri: "The Supreme Person Bhagavan said: My dear Arjuna, how have
these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows
the progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but to
infamy. O son of Prtha, do not yield to this degrading impotence. It does not
become you. Give up such petty weakness of heart and arise, O chastiser of the
enemy. Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu, Krsna, how can I counteract with arrows
in battle men like Bhisma and Drona who are worthy of my worship? It is better
to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great
souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless
superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood. Nor do we
know which is better, conquering them or being conquered by them. The sons of
Dhrtarastra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing
before us on this battlefield. Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all
composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me
clearly what is best for me. Now I am your disciple and a soul surrendered unto
You. Please instruct me. I can find no means to drive away this grief which is
drying up my senses. I will not be able to destroy it even if I win an
unrivalled kingdom on the earth with sovereignty like that of the demigods in
heaven. Sanjaya said: Having thus spoken, Arjuna the chastiser of the enemies
told Krsna, Govinda, I shall not fight, and fell silent. O descendant of
Bharata, at that time, Krsna, smiling in the midst of both the armies spoke the
following words to the griefstricken Arjuna."
Prabhupada: So he has said
already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the
only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Krsna as guru to instruct him
how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is
Krsna. Krsna is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take
instruction from Krsna and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is
successful. That is our mission. Krsna consciousness movement means accept Krsna
as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am
Krsna." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of
Krsna." Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66],
and we say that "You surrender to Krsna. Give up all other ideas of so-called
dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am
the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Krsna is the authority, and you
try to understand Krsna." This is Krsna consciousness movement. Therefore the
question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is
necessary. Arjuna was talking with Krsna as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This
is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we
are equal status. Krsna is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I
am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit."
Therefore he said, "Now, Krsna, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means
there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is
disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that
position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept
You as guru." Therefore the guru is necessary, undoubtedly, because every one of
us in perplexed position. But who is guru? Guru means Krsna or Krsna's
representative. And all others are bogus. If one does not say on the standard of
Krsna, then he's not guru. He's a bogus. In that way everyone can become guru. I
have got some opinion, I can say. But unless.... Just like a lawyer is he who
follows the standard law. If a lawyer says that "I have manufactured my own
laws," so who will hear him? And what will be the use of becoming lawyer? No.
You have to follow the standard law. Then you are a lawyer. And a big lawyer
means who knows the standard laws very well. Similarly, guru is Krsna and guru
is necessary. But one must surrender to Krsna or Krsna's representative. Then he
will be successful. So so far.... Now, one can say that Krsna is not present.
But Krsna is not present, how you can say? Krsna's instruction is there,
Bhagavad-gita. How you can say that.... Krsna, absolute, means the Supreme Lord
is not different from His words also. The words of Krsna and the Krsna, they are
the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and
the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water,
water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That
is relative world. But in the spiritual world.... Just like we are chanting
Krsna, Hare Krsna. If Krsna is different from Hare Krsna, then how we are
satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof. The ordinary thing,
if you chant, "Mr. John, Mr. John," after chanting three times you'll cease. But
this Hare Krsna maha-mantra, if you go on chanting 24 hours, you'll never be
tired. this is the spiritual Absolute Truth. That is practical. Anyone can
perceive. So Krsna's present by His words, by His representative. Why don't you
take? You have to take guru. Why do you go to the pseudo guru who will mislead
you? Why don't you take to the real guru? That is your mistake. Therefore you
are now disappointed. Now you are in doubt whether guru is needed. Yes, guru is
needed, but you go to the real guru. That is instruction in the Bhagavad-gita.
Just find out this verse.
tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena
sevaya
upadeksyanti tad-jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah
[Bg.
4.34]
Pusta Krsna: "Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual
master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The
self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the
truth."
Prabhupada: So this is guru. What, is that? One who has seen the
truth.
Pusta Krsna: Yes. Jnaninas tattva-darsinah.
Prabhupada: So one who
has seen... Just like Arjuna has seen Krsna. That's a fact. He was talking. How
that if you take instruction of Arjuna, then you understand. So what is the
instruction of Arjuna? Find out in the Tenth Chapter.
Pusta Krsna:
arjuna
uvaca
param brahma param dhama
pavitram paramam bhavan
purusam sasvatam
divyam
adi-devam ajam vibhum
[Bg. 10.12]
ahus tvam rsayah
sarve
devarsir naradas tatha
asito devalo vyasah
svayam caiva bravisi
me
[Bg. 10.13]
"Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the
ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier."
Prabhupada: And that Vedanta-sutra
says, athato brahma jijnasah. Now here Arjuna is experienced, "You are the
Supreme Brahman." So he has seen the Supreme Brahman. So you make Arjuna guru,
Krsna guru. Arjuna is representative of Krsna, friend of Krsna. So why do you go
to a bogus guru? You must be cheated. Guru is essential. It is necessary. But
take the real guru. But if you go to the bogus guru, you must be disappointed.
For your treatment you need to go to a physician. That's all. When you are
diseased you cannot say, "No, no, I don't want to..." It is necessary. But go to
the real physician. Don't go to a cheater. He has no knowledge in the medical
science, and he places himself as "I am physician, MD." Then you'll be cheated.
The guru is necessary, that's a fact. But go to the real guru. Who is real guru?
Real guru is Krsna or one who has seen Krsna, Arjuna. Take them. Then you'll be
benefitted. And if you go to a bogus man who does not know Krsna, who does not
know what is Krsna's instruction, then you must be cheated. So the answer is
guru is absolute necessary. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12].
This is Vedic injunction, that one must go. But he must go to the real guru. And
who is real guru? Who knows Krsna. Take, for example, Arjuna, how he studied
Krsna. And he says, param brahma param dhama [Bg. 10.12]. Read the
translation.
Pusta Krsna: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the
ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal
divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are
the unborn and all pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Narada, Asita,
Devala, and Vyasa, proclaim this of You and now You Yourself are declaring it to
me."
Prabhupada: Arjuna is rectifying this because people may say, "Arjuna
was Krsna's friend, he is accepting Him as guru." No, Arjuna says, "Not only I,
but other authorities, they also accept." So it is..., everything is clear, that
Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and He should be accepted as guru or
His representative should be accepted guru. Then it will be... So our, this
Krsna consciousness movement is that we are presenting Krsna as the supreme
guru. You take instruction from Him and be benefited. But one who is carrying
this message, he is also authorized. Just like one money order, it is coming
through the post office, but an ordinary peon is handing over the money. But he
is representative of post office. Actually, the money order is being delivered
by the post office, general post office. But it is coming through an ordinary
peon. But because he is authorized to deliver you, he is also post office. He's
as good as the post office. Just you have got a letter box, a small box, but if
you put your letter there, your letter will surely go ten thousand miles away.
Therefore, although it is a small box, you don't think it is small box. It is
whole post office. Similarly, anyone who is carrying the message of Krsna, don't
think that he's ordinary man. If you imitate one box like that post box and put
your letter, for thousand years it will lie down there. Because it is not
authorized. So if somebody says this small box, red box, is as good as the post
office, one may say, "Huh, this is small box. How it can be as good as the post
office?" But you see. You post your letter, it will go. Therefore,
saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih **. Guru is
directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why? Because he is presenting the
words of Supreme Personality of Godhead without any deterioration. Therefore he
is so honored. So therefore the conclusion is guru is necessary and guru is he
who is representative of Krsna. Otherwise he's bogus.
Pusta Krsna: What about
the so-called gurus that take a little bit here and a little bit
there?
Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not
gurus. That is already explained. If one does not speak what Krsna speaks, he is
not guru. If you accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be
done?
Pusta Krsna: Some of them will say some things that Krsna says, but
they'll take from other places also. What is the position of such
persons?
Prabhupada: He's most dangerous. He's most dangerous. He is
opportunist. He's finding out customer, something here... According to the
customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased. So he is not
guru. He's a servant. He wants to serve the so-called disciples so that he may
be satisfied and pay him something. He's servant. He's not guru. Guru is the
master. You cannot disobey guru. But if you become a servant, you want to please
the disciple by flattering him to get his money, then you are not guru, you are
servant. Just like a servant pleases the master. He's not guru. He's servant. So
our position should be servant, yes, but servant of the Supreme. So guru means
heavy. You cannot utilize him for satisfying your whims. That is not guru.
(pause) Now? What other question?
Pusta Krsna: It's about eight o'clock,
Srila Prabhupada. Should we go on?
Prabhupada: No. Tomorrow. (devotees offer
obeisances -- break)
Pusta Krsna: So we're continuing with this questionnaire
from Bhavan's Journal in Bombay. This is question number ten. Question number
ten, Srila Prabhupada, is "Will mantras lose their sanctity if they are not in
Sanskrit?"
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: Will mantras lose their sanctity
or holiness if they are not in the Sanskrit language?
Prabhupada: Mantra in
Sanskrit language, it may... The letters may be different, but it is a
transcendental sound. The sound must be vibrated. You cannot translate it. The
sound as it is... Just like Hare Krsna maha-mantra, the sound must be produced.
You cannot translate. Then it will be artha, arthavad. That is prohibited. You
cannot interpret or do other way... The sound vibration must be there. Then it
will continue in sanctity.
Pusta Krsna: Is that to say the mantras can be
written in Devanagari script or in Roman letters, but...
Prabhupada: It
doesn't matter.
Pusta Krsna: But the sound must be the same.
Prabhupada:
Yes. The sound is important.
Pusta Krsna: So the sanctity is in the sound
vibration and not so much that it's in the Sanskrit letters itself. May I ask
another question, Srila Prabhupada? "Are fasting and other dietary regulations
necessary for leading a spiritual life?"
Prabhupada: Certainly.
tapasa
brahmacaryena
samena damena va
tyagena sattva-saucabhyam
yamena
niyamena va
[SB 6.1.13]
To advance in spiritual life these things
are essential, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting something which may
be painful. Just like we are recommending no illicit sex, no gambling, no
meat-eating. So those who are accustomed to these bad habits, for them, in he
beginning it may be a little difficult. But in spite of becoming difficult, one
has to do it. That is called tapasya. To rise early in the morning, those who
are not practiced, it is a little painful, but one has to do it. So this is
called tapasya. So according to the Vedic injunction, there are some tapasyas
that must be done. It is not, "I may do it or not do it." It must be done. Just
like in the Mundaka Upanisad it is ordered that one must go to the spiritual
master. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So there is no
question of voluntarily, but it must be. And one must carry out by the order of
a spiritual master and the order of the sastra. That is called tapasya. Just
like in our line ekadasi is compulsory. One may feel some inconvenience fasting
or simply eating fruits. No. It must be done. There are so many rules and
regulations which is essential. It must be done. That is called tapasya. Without
consideration whether it is convenient or inconvenient for you, which is, must
be done, that is called tapasya. Tapah, divyam... Just like Rsabhadeva orders
that this human life is meant for tapasya. Therefore in our Vedic civilization
we find so many rules and regulations. This is tapasya. From the very beginning
of life, brahmacari, to go to the spiritual master's place and act like menial
servant. Nicavat. It is said. If the spiritual master says that "You go and pick
up some wood from the forest," and one may be a king's son, but he cannot deny
it, the spiritual master's order, "You must go." As Krsna, He was ordered to go
and pick up some dry wood from the forest. So He had to go. Although He was, His
father was Nanda Maharaja, a village vaisya king, and Krsna was Personality of
Godhead, but He could not deny. He had to go. Nicavat. Just like menial servant.
That is called brahmacari. This is tapasya. So tapasya is so essential that one
has to do it. There is no question of alternative. Then brahmacari, then.... If
he marries, then grhastha. That is also tapasya. He cannot have sex life
whenever he likes. No. The sastra says, "You must have sex life like this: once
in a month and only for begetting children." So that is also tapasya. They do
not follow, people do not follow any tapasya at the present moment. But human
life is meant for tapasya, regulative principles. Even in ordinary life.... Just
like you are driving your car, you are going to some urgent business, and you
saw the red light. You have to stop. You cannot say, "I have to leave by this
time. I must go." No. You must. That is tapasya. So tapasya means to follow the
regulative principles strictly by the higher order and that is human life. And
animal life means you can do whatever you like. They keep to the right, keep to
the left, it doesn't matter. But their offense is not taken because they are
animals. But a human being, if he does not follow the regulative principles, it
is sinful. He'll be punished. The same principle. Just like when there is red
light, if you do not stop, you'll be punished. But a cat and dog, if he
transgresses, "Never mind red light, I shall go," he's not punished. So tapasya
is meant for the human being. He must do it if he wants at all progress of life.
That is essential.
Pusta Krsna: In terms of diet, dietary regulations,
eating...
Prabhupada: That is also tapasya. That is also tapasya. Just like
we are prohibiting meat-eating. So in your country this is little troublesome.
From the very beginning of his life he is, I mean to say, habituated to eat
meat. The mother purchases powdered meat and mix with... I have seen it. And by
force. So he has been trained up eating meat, and I say, "Don't eat meat." So
therefore that is troublesome. And if he's serious, he must accept the order.
That is tapasya. Tapasya means in diet, in practice, in behavior, in dealing,
and so on, so on. Everything there is tapasya. That is all described. Mental
tapasya, bodily tapasya, and what is called? Word? Just like vaco-vegam, this is
tapasya. You cannot talk nonsense. You want to talk something nonsense, but
according to... So they don't talk nonsense. Sa vai manah krsna-padaravindayor
vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvar... If you talk, you must talk about Krsna. That is
tapasya. "Sastra has ordered me not to talk loosely anything, only talk of
Krsna." So if he does that, that is tapasya. Tapasya in the matter of words.
Tapasya in connection with body. Tapasya in connection with mind. Vaco-vegam
krodha-vegam. One has become angry and he wants to express it by beating or
something doing very..., but tapasya will restrict him. "No, don't do it." "I
want to kill you." Tapasya will restrict. Vaco-vegam krodha-vegam manasa-vegam
udara-vegam. "I am sexually inclined, but I cannot do it. This is not the time."
That is tapasya. I am restricted. In this way, tapasya in every way, bodily,
mental, words, practice, dealing. So these have to be learned. That is called
tapasya. And that is human life. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. If you want to make
progress in spiritual life and you are human life, human being, you must act
according to the sastric injunctions. That is called tapasya. Brahma, before
creation he had to undergo tapasya. Is it not stated? Yes. So tapasya is
essential. You cannot avoid. Yes.
Hari-sauri: This is a listing of the three
tapasyas in the Gita.
Prabhupada: Yes. Read
it.
Hari-sauri:
deva-dvija-guru-prajna-
pujanam saucam
arjavam
brahmacaryam ahimsa ca
sariram tapa ucyate
"The austerity of
the body consists in this: worship of the Supreme Lord, the brahmanas, the
spiritual master, and superiors like the father and mother. Cleanliness,
simplicity, celibacy, and nonviolence are also austerities of the body." Shall I
do the purport?
Prabhupada: Words?
Hari-sauri: Purport?
Prabhupada: No.
Tapasya, words, not there?
Hari-sauri: Oh.
anudvega-karam vakyam
satyam
priya-hitam ca yat
svadhyayabhyasanam caiva
van-mayam tapa
ucvyate
"Austerity of speech consists in speaking truthfully and beneficially
and in avoiding speech that offends. One should also recite the Vedas
regularly."
Prabhupada: Tapasya.
Hari-sauri:
manah-prasadah
saumyatvam
maunam atma-vinigrahah
bhava samsuddhir ity etat
tapo
manasam ucyate
"And serenity, simplicity, gravity, self-control and purity of
thought are the austerities of the mind."
sraddhaya paraya taptam
tapas
tat tri-vidham naraih
aphalakanksibhir yuktaih
sattvikam
paricaksate
"This threefold austerity, practiced by men whose aim is not to
benefit themselves materially, but to please the Supreme, is of the nature of
goodness."
Prabhupada: That's it. The aim is to please the Supreme through
the spiritual master. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado **. This is the idea. Now,
who is teaching this tapasya? Where is the school, college? Smoke: this is
tapasya. And they are smoking before teacher. No offense. What you'll expect
from such student? Animal civilization. This is not civilization. No tapasya, no
brahmacari. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. And tapasya begins from brahmacari. Tapasa
brahmacaryena samena [SB 6.1.13], to control. Brahmacari guru-grhe vasan dantah.
How to control senses, that is the beginning of life. Not ABCD learning and
maybe your character may be less than an animal's, and you have got a degree of
the university. You become a learned man. No. That is not accepted. Even from
moral instruction, who is educated? That is described by Canakya
Pandit.
matrvat para-daresu
para-dravyesu lostravat
atmavat
sarva-bhutesu
yah pasyati sa panditah
Here is pandita. That is learned
man. Panditah sama-darsinah. Vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi [Bg. 5.18]. He
is learned man. Not this degree holder. A degree holder, he has no tapasya, he
has no character and his knowledge is called mayayapahrta-jnana. Although he has
learned so many things, but maya has taken away his knowledge. He's a rascal.
He's animal. This is Vedic civilization. [break]
Pusta Krsna: Question number
twelve. "What is the role of rituals in religion? Are they to be discouraged as
it is being advocated by some reformists or are they to be encouraged? If so, in
what form? What is the role of rituals in religion?"
Prabhupada: Ritual is a
practice based on tapasya. Unless one undergoes the ritualistic ceremony, he
remains unclean. But in this age, because it is practically impossible to induce
people to take all these ritualistic processes, therefore it is recommended that
"Chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra." That is special advantage of this age, that by
constant chanting of Hare Krsna maha-mantra he automatically becomes purified.
That is recommendation given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc.
Antya 20.12]. The beginning is cleansing the heart, because we are impure on
account of dirty things within our heart accumulated life after life in the
animalistic way of life. So everything, advancement of spiritual life, culture,
tapasya means cleansing the heart. So this process, chanting the maha-mantra,
the first installment of benefit is cleansing the heart. Ceto-darpana-marjanam.
And when the heart is cleansed, then he becomes eligible for being free from the
clutches of maya or the materialistic way of life. When he understands that he
is not this body, he's spirit soul, his business is different, and he
understands that "I am engaged only in these bodily comforts of life, it is not
at all essential because it will change. Today I am in American body, I have got
so many duties as American. Tomorrow I may be American dog body. So immediately
my duty changes. So that is not my real business. My real business is how to
elevate myself as spirit soul to the spiritual world, back to home, back to
Godhead." Then he changes his... Ceto... Bhava... Then this materialistic
activity is stopped. He is no more interested, that "This is simply waste of
time." That is knowledge, that "I am simply acting for the benefit and comfort
of the body. This is simply waste of time. I must act spiritually." That is
called ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart. He is
wrongly working on the basis of bodily concept of life. That illusion is over
simply by chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra. This is the first installment,
ceto-darpana-marjanam, and bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam. Then he is in the
process to stop the blazing fire of material existence. Then vidya-vadhu-jivanam
anandambudhi-vardhanam. Then the ocean of transcendental bliss increases.
Anandambudhi-vardanam sarvatmanam snapanam. Wholesale blissful life. Param
vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam. All glories to the chanting of Krsna sankirtana.
Then the other processes... That is described in the Siksastaka. So this is
Caitanya Mahaprabhu's gift, that kevalaya bhaktya. All the practices of
austerities, penances, and mystic yoga, and so on, so on. There are so many
things. Everything will be totally achieved simply by chanting Hare Krsna
mantra. Bhakti.
kecit kevalaya bhaktya
vasudeva-parayanah
agham
dhunvanti kartsnyena
niharam iva bhaskarah
[SB 6.1.15]
Just like
when there is sunrise, immediately the all-pervading fog disappears. Now this
Kali-yuga, by bhakti-yoga, especially by chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra, one
can be fully reformed and come to spiritual platform, and that is success of
life.
Pusta Krsna: The next question kind of relates a little bit in the same
direction. Question thirteen. "There are various samskaras prescribed in the
life of a Hindu right from his birth to death."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta
Krsna: "Many of these samskaras are not being observed today. Should they be
revived?"
Prabhupada: Samskara... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the
platform of knowledge. That is called samskara. Janmana jayate sudra. By birth
everyone is the same, sudras, means without any knowledge. But the samskara
means sudra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring
him to the spiritual platform. That is called samskara. And samskarad bhaved
dvijah. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding
what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home,
back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this
material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual
existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life.
Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the
material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human
being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called samskara.
So these samskara, there are dasa-vidha-samskarah... So in this age it is very
difficult, but if one chants Hare Krsna maha-mantra without any offense, being
trained up by the spiritual master, all the samskaras automatically become done
and he comes to his original spiritual position, aham brahmasmi, "I am spirit
soul. The Krsna is Param Brahman, and I am Brahman." As Arjuna said, param
brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. Krsna is also Brahman, I
am also Brahman. But He's Supreme Brahman, I am minute Brahman. So my business
is to serve Krsna. That is teachings of Lord Caitanya, jivera 'svarupa' haya
(sic:) nitya krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. So if he engages himself in his
original spiritual business, to act as the servant of Krsna, then all
reformation is done. So that advantage is given in this age: kirtanad eva
krsnasya mukta-sangah param... [SB 12.3.51]. Reformatory process is meant for
purifying him so he becomes mukta-sangah. Mukta-sangah means liberated from all
this bad association of material existence. And he becomes eligible to go back
to home, back to Godhead. So this is the special advantage. The question is
"Whether they should be revived?" They should be revived to the lowest
necessity, but all of them cannot be revived in this age. But people should be
induced to take to chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra. Then all reformation will
automatically become manifest and he will come to spiritual platform,
brahma-bhutah, the realization of Brahman. Then prasannatma, he'll be happy.
There is no lamentation, there is no undesirable hankering. Na socati na
kanksati. He sees everyone on the spiritual platform. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. In
this way he comes to the platform of devotional service, and then his life
becomes successful. Is that question answered or not?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. Just
one question I have. You said that the samskaras should be revived to the
lowest?
Prabhupada: The minumum possible way. Just like to make him a
brahmana. So to become a brahmana these four things are essential: no illicit
sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This must be there. You
cannot avoid wholesale.
Pusta Krsna: Cannot avoid?
Prabhupada: Wholesale.
You must avoid at least sinful activities.
yesam tv anta-gatam
papam
jananam punya-karmanam
te dvandva-moha-nirmukta
bhajante mam
drdha-vratah
[Bg. 7.28]
You cannot become a devotee unless you are
completely sinless. So to become completely sinless you have to begin with these
four prohibitory injunctions, or avoid sinful activities like illicit sex,
meat-eating, smoking, intoxication and gambling. Then you'll be gradually
completely sinless. One side, to practice things, and another side, to engage
yourself in devotional service. To engage oneself devotional service under the
order of spiritual master and the sastra means to remain on the transcendental
platform. Transcendental platform means there is no sinful activity. It is
above. Sinful.... Pious and sinful activities are there so long you are on the
material platform. Good and bad. Piety and sinful. But when you are on the
transcendental platform, then you are automatically without sin.
mam ca yo
'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan
samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]
Sin, life of
vice and life of piety, they are within this material world. But when one is
spiritually engaged, he is above the spiritual plane. Sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. So one side, voluntarily accepting these prohibitory
process.... You can keep it open. (the door)
Hari-sauri: Tell him to leave
the door open.
Prabhupada: So the whole thing is that if you chant hare Krsna
maha-mantra and give up these sinful activities, automatically you become
reformed, come to the spiritual platform, and in this way your life will become
successful.
Pusta Krsna: Can we go on to the next question, Srila
Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Pusta Krsna: Question fourteen. "It is said
that the karma-kanda in the Vedas has almost gone out of use, except for a few
rites which remain in vogue for marriage, sraddhas, etc. Is it advisable to
revive the karma-kanda with its stress on the performance of various
yajnas?"
Prabhupada: So that is not possible in this... Taking consideration
of the time, circumstances, it is not possible. There are different kinds of
karma-kandiya-yajna. It is expensive also and there is no expert brahmana to
guide how to perform this yajna. So Kali-yuga, it is not possible to perform
yajnas. Krte yad dhyayato visnum tretayam yajato makhaih [SB 12.3.52]. In the
Treta-yuga yajnas were possible. Dvapare paricaryayam kalau tad dhari-kirtanat,
that in this age of Kali-yuga the real yajna is hari-kirtana. Yajnaih
sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah [SB 11.5.32]. Therefore those who are
intelligent, having good brain substance, they take to this yajna,
sankirtana-yajna. And practically we are experiencing, simply by
sankirtana-yajna, even the lowest person in the sinful activities, he is
becoming purified. So karma-kanda is, to revive them in this age is not
possible. Neither jnana-kanda. That is also not possible. People are so fool and
rascal that it is impossible. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura said... He has
condemned karma-kanda, jnana-kanda. Even it is properly done. Karma-kanda, by
performing ritualistic ceremonies of karma-kanda, you can go to the heavenly
planet. But what is the benefit there? You can enjoy there materialistic way of
life in higher standard. That's all. You can live for a very, very long duration
of period. But that does not mean that you become immortal. The demigods, they
are called amara. Amara means they have got very long duration of life. Does not
mean he is immortal. So by karma-kanda you can elevate yourself to the higher
planetary system. Even it is properly done... And now it is not possible to do
it properly. And even it is properly done, that is condemned. It is not
required. Similarly jnana-kanda. Even it is properly done... You can merge
yourself into the Brahman effulgence. But that is also not safe because in the
sastra we see that aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB
10.2.32]. Even one merges oneself into the impersonal Brahman, he again falls
down. Patanty adhah. We have seen practical, in India many sannyasis, they
elevate themselves by jnana-kanda, but because they cannot stay, they again come
to the karma-kanda, philanthropy activities and hospitals and schools. That is
their fall down. So either in karma-kanda or jnana-kanda you cannot achieve the
real purpose of life. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura has said, karma-kanda
jnana-kanda sakali visera bandha. Either you accept karma-kanda or jnana-kanda,
they're different pots of poison. Amrta boliya jeba khai. If by mistake you take
poison, death is inevitable. Similarly, by karma-kanda, jnana-kanda nobody can
derive any actual benefit. By upasana-kanda, that is the... The Vedas, Vedic
ritualistic ceremony means there are three kandas: karma-kanda, jnana-kanda, and
upasana-kanda. So upasana-kanda, there are recommendation of many, worship of
many demigods. But the best upasana is Visnupasana. Visnor aradhanam sarvesam.
Visnor aradhanam param. Om tad visnum paramam padam. There are different types
of upasana recommendation, but the visnor aradhanam, worshiping Lord Visnu, that
is the Supreme. That is Supreme. So gradually, there is elevation to
karma-kanda, jnana-kanda, upasana-kanda, but in the Kali-yuga all these things
are not possible to revive. Best directly give him the best upasana-kanda,
Visnupasana, bhakti, everything will be automatically achieved by
bhakti-marga.
Pusta Krsna: The next question, Srila Prabhupada, fifteen.
"Hinduism has been defined as a way of life."
Prabhupada: Yes. Actually it is
the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like
Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually,
it is a way of life, varnasrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual
platform. So that begins by the varnasrama-dharma, to select persons according
to his capacity to different varnas. Some of them selected, trained as
brahmanas. Some of them trained as ksatriya, some of them as vaisya, some of
them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are sudras. So in
the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by
education. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. That we
have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not
follow real varnasrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim
became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to
Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard.
Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. One may...
Samskarad bhaved dvija. And Sanatana Gosvami says that
yatha kancanatam
yati
kamsyam rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate
nrnam
As by chemical process the bell metal can be turned into gold by adding
with the mercury.... This is a chemical process. If you can add in the bell
metal proportionately mercury, then it will turn into gold. Here is the process
given in the sastra. If you are able to do it, you can do it, turn gold some of
these bell metals. So the example is given that as the bell metal, base metal,
can be turned into gold by chemical process, similarly, by diksa-vidhanena, by
proper initiation by the bona fide spiritual master, everyone can be turned into
dvija, twice-born. Dvijatvam jayate nrnam. Nrnam means all men. It is not there
is no discrimination, that only the Hindus, only the Indians, or only the
so-called brahmanas can be turned. Everyone can be turned. That is the
injunction. So this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to do that, trying
everyone to become a bona fide brahmana. Without becoming a brahmana you cannot
become Vaisnava. So this reformatory process is recommended in the sastras. What
is the question?
Pusta Krsna: Hinduism has been defined as a way of life.
In...
Prabhupada: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process
recommended in the sastras one should be elevated to the position of brahmana,
ksatriya, vaisyas, and sudra. Sudra means one who cannot take any reformation.
But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brahmana, as a
ksatriya, as a vaisya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That
is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise,
why Krsna says papa-yoni? Papa-yoni. Striyo vaisyas tatha sudras. They are also
taken as papa-yoni. And what to speak of the sudras and candalas? They must be
papa-yoni. Only the brahmana, ksatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But
nowadays, kalau sudra-sambhavah. In this age you cannot distinguish who is
brahmana, who is ksatriya, who is a vaisya, who is a sudra. It is accepted that
everyone is a sudra because there is no reformation. So according to
Pancaratriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaisnava, a
dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, that by the proper
initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija,
twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there.
Samskarad bhaved dvijah. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathad
bhaved viprah. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of
Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is
brahmana. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with
God, Visnu, then he becomes a Vaisnava. That is perfection of life.
Pusta
Krsna: Is this practical in the present context?
Prabhupada: Yes. We are
doing it. See. If anyone has eyes to see they can see how we are accepting the
papa-yoni, so-called papa-yoni to become the topmost Vaisnava, that is possible.
Unless it is possible how it is being done all over the world? There is no
consideration. The process is so effective that it is being done. They are
taking it as a proselytization. But it is not proselytizing. Proselytization is
superflous. If one is Hindu you make him a Christian, and you change the name.
But what is the use of changing the name if you do not reform him about his
character? Simply changing the name from Hindu to Muslim or Muslim to Christian,
that does not make him better...
Pusta Krsna: This next question is rather
interesting. Question sixteen. "Is it not possible for all sections of Hindus,
be they Advaitans, Dvaitans, or visistadvaitans, to come together instead of
remaining isolated as warring factions?"
Prabhupada: Yes. Dvaita and advaita.
This is the process of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and
advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God.
The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong,
or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is
sad-aisvarya-purnam, full with six opulences, all-powerful, all-strenght,
all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And...
This is Advaita. And Dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is
separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gita we
understand that God is always the Supreme and the living entities, they are
subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
(Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief.
The difference between the two, that God maintains other living entities. Eko yo
bahunam vidadhati kaman. That is a fact. We are maintained and God is the
maintainer. We are predominated, we are not independent, and God is
predominator. But because the predominated living entities, they are part and
parcel of God, therefore in quality they are one. This is acintya-bhedabheda,
one and different. The living entity is one in the sense because he is part and
parcel of God. So if God is gold, the living entity is also gold. That is one in
quality. But god is great and we are minute, small. In that way we are
different. Now, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has enunciated acintya-bhedabheda,
inconceivable, simultaneously one and different. That is real philosophy. So on
this philosophy everyone can come if they are reasonable. If they remain
unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult.
Otherwise this is the fact, that the living entity is eternally part and parcel
of God. Sanatana. What is that verse? Find out. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loke
sanatana [Bg. 15.7]. Fifteenth chapter.
Hari-sauri:
mamaivamso
jiva-loke
jiva-bhutah sanatanah
manah sasthanindriyani
prakrti-sthani
karsati
[Bg. 15.7]
"The living entities in this conditioned world
are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life they are struggling
very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupada: So if
he's eternal fragmental parts, how he can become one with the whole? The part is
never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. This is wrong conception, to
become like God. The Mayavadis, they are trying to become God. That is
impossible. They... Let them remain godly. Godly means servant of God. That will
make him perfection, his life perfect. Vaisnava philosophy is to remain, to act
as servant of God. That is perfect. And if the servant tries to become like the
master, that is artificial. Although in the spiritual world there is no
difference between the master and the servant... Just like the boys, Krsna's
cowherd boy friends, they do not know Krsna is God. They are playing with Him on
equal terms. When Krsna is defeated in the play He has to take His friend on His
shoulder and he rides on the shoulder. So there is no such distinction who is
God and who is not God. So that is spiritual conception. But the difference is
always there. God and the part and parcel. Krta-punya-punjah. We can attain that
position after many, many lives' pious activities. That is stated in the
Srimad-Bhagavatam.
ittham (satam) brahma-sukhanubhutya
dasyam gatanam
para-daivatena
mayasritanam nara-darakena
sakam vijahruh
krta-punya-punjah
[SB 10.12.11]
These boys are playing with Krsna.
Who is Krsna? He is the essence of Brahma-sukha, Param Brahman. So these boys
are playing with Param Brahman. Ittham brahma-sukhanubhutya dasyam gatanam
para-daivatena. And for the devotees He's the supreme master, and for the
ordinary man He is ordinary child. But these other children who are playing,
they have got this position krta-punya-punjah. "After many, many births' pious
activities, now I have got this position, playing with Krsna on equal terms." So
this is the conception of devotional service, that when you go to the Goloka
Vrndavana you cannot distinguish.... But they have got unflinching love for
Krsna. That is Vrndavana life. The cows, the calves, the trees, the flowers, the
water, the elderly men, Nanda Maharaja and Yasodamayi, everyone is attached,
central point is Krsna. Everyone is loving Krsna. And there is no such knowledge
that Krsna is the Supreme Personality.... Sometimes they see Krsna's wonderful
activities and they talk on: "Krsna may be some demigod. He has come here." But
they could never recognize that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
When Krsna passed some dangerous position, so many demons were coming, mother
Yasoda was chanting some mantras to protect Krsna that "He may not be put into
some calamity." They never understood that Krsna is the Supreme Personality. But
their natural love for Krsna so intense. Therefore Vrndavana life is so exalted.
Aradha... What is called? Aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanaya tad-dhama vrndavanam.
Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that first of all Krsna, Vrajendra-nandana,
the son of Nanada Maharaja, He is aradhya. Tad-dhama vrndavanam. And His dhama,
His abode, Vrndavana, is also worshipable. They are equal. Vrndavana-dhama and
Krsna, they are equal. So these are higher standard of understanding. Unless one
is devotee, purified, he cannot understand that to become one with God is not
the sublime idea. In Vrndavana one who wants to become the father or mother of
God, to control God, that these Mayavadis cannot understand, Advaitavadis. This
is to be understood by the pure devotion, devotees. What is the benefit to
become equal with God? Just become.... equal.... Other Vaisnava philosophies
they could not explain our relationship with God. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu
explained the higher relationship with God. That is called vatsalya-rasa and
madhurya-rasa. Especially madhurya-rasa. Anarpita carim cirat karunayavatirnah
kalau samarpayitum unnatojvala-rasam sva bhakti sriyam. Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave
information of the madhurya-rasa, that our relationship can be with Krsna in
conjugal love. So unless one comes to the platform of devotional service, one
cannot understand. But for general understanding this philosophy of
acintya-bhedabheda, simultaneously one and different.... That is explained in
this verse. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. The living entities are part and
parcel of God. So if God is gold, then living entities are also gold. This is
equality in quality. But God is great, and we are always subordinate. Eko yo
bahunam vidadhati kaman. We are protected, we are maintained, we are
predominated. That is our position. We cannot attain the position of
predominator. That is not possible.
Pusta Krsna: The next question, Srila
Prabhupada, question 17. "What is the future of Hinduism?"
Prabhupada: There
is no future. It is already gone. (laughter) The future is already there. And
what do you want more future? A man was beaten with shoes, and again he said
that "He has threatened me, to insult me." So if he is beaten with shoes, then
what insult remains to be done again? So Hinduism now finished. Now take to the
process of Krsna's order, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg.
18.66]. Teach this teaching of Bhagavad-gita to the whole world. Not only
Hinduism; Christianism, and Muslimism, everything's gone. And even it is not
gone, Krsna says, " Give up all this nonsense." Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg.
18.66]. "Give up Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. Simply surrender unto Me."
That is to be preached all over the world, and that is being effective. So if
the Hindus are interested in Bhagavad-gita, which was spoken in the Hindustan,
in the land of Hindus, they must seriously take to this instruction of Krsna and
combine together and preach all over the world and make others benefited and
themselves benefited. That is the only way. There is no other second
way.
Pusta Krsna: Next question. Question number 18. "As the world is coming
to be divided into just two classes, atheist and theist, is it not advisable for
all religions to come together, and what positive steps can be taken in this
direction?"
Prabhupada: That is already taken, already explained. This Krsna
consciousness movement. The atheist class and theist class, they will exist
always. This is material world. Even at home the father is atheist,
Hiranyakasipu, and the son is theist. So even at home the father and the son
different. So that atheist class and theist class men will always exist in
family, in community, in nation, in the... as you go on. But the theist class
should take to the proposition of the Bhagavad-gita and take shelter at his
lotus feet, giving up so-called religious principles. That is oneness. Religion
without conception of God, conception of God is humbug, bogus. Religion means to
accept the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know
who is God, so there is no question of accepting His order. It is stated in the
Vedic literature dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Find out this
verse in the Sixth Canto. [break] ...Yamaraja's instruction.
Devotee: Yes.
(pause)
Hari-sauri:
dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam
na vai vidur
rsayo napi devah
na siddha-mukhya asura manusyah
kuto nu
vidyadhara-caranadayah
[SB 6.3.19]
"Translation: Real religious
principles are enacted by..."
Prabhupada: Ha! Real.
Hari-sauri: "Real
religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although
fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great rsis who occupy the
topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the
demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary
human beings, Vidyadharas and Caranas."
Prabhupada: Hm.
[break]
Hari-sauri: This is Sixth Canto, Third Chapter, Text Nineteen. When
challenged by the Visnudutas to describe the principles of religion, the
Yamadutas said, veda-pranihito dharmah: the religious principles are the
principles enacted in the Vedic literature. They did not know, however, that the
Vedic literature contains ritualistic ceremonies that are not transcendental,
but are meant to keep peace and order among materialistic persons in the
material world. Real religious principles are nistraigunya, above the three
modes of material nature, or transcendental. The Yamadutas did not know these
transcendental religious principles, and therefore when prevented from arresting
Ajamila they were surprised. Materialistic persons who attach all their faith to
the Vedic rituals are described in Bhagavad-gita (2.42), wherein Krsna says,
veda-vada-ratah partha nanyad astiti vadinah: the supposed followers of the
Vedas say that there is nothing beyond the Vedic ceremonies. Indeed, there is a
group of men in India who are very fond of the Vedic rituals, not understanding
the meaning of these rituals, which are intended to elevate one gradually to the
transcendental platform of knowing Krsna (vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg.
15.15]). Those who do not know this principle but who simply attach their faith
to the Vedic rituals are called veda-vada-ratah.
Herein it is stated that the
real religious principle is that which is given by the Supreme Personality of
Godhead. That principle is stated in Bhagavad-gita. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam
ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] one should give up all other duties and
surrender unto the lotus feet of Krsna. That is the real religious principle
everyone should follow. Even though one follows Vedic scriptures, one may not
know this transcendental principle, for it is not known to everyone. To say
nothing of human beings, even the demigods in the upper planetary systems are
unaware of it. This transcendental religious principle must be understood from
the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly or from His special representative,
as stated in the next verses.
Prabhupada: So, therefore... Next
verse.
Hari-sauri:
svayambhur naradah sambhuh
kumarah kapilo
manuh
prahlado janako bhismo
balir vaiyasakir vayam
[SB
6.3.20]
Prabhupada: Vaiyasakir vayam.
Hari-sauri: Dvadasaite
vijanimo...
Prabhupada: Dvadasaite.
Hari-sauri: Dharmam bhagavatam bhatah,
guhyam visuddham durbodham yam jnatvamrtam asnute. "Lord Brahma, Bhagavan
Narada, Lord Siva, the four Kumaras, Lord Kapila (the son of Devahuti),
Svayambhuva Manu, Prahlada Maharaja, Janaka Maharaja, Grandfather Bhisma, Bali
Maharaja, Sukadeva Gosvami and I myself know the real religious principle. My
dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as
bhagavat-dharma or surrender unto the Supreme Lord..."
Prabhupada: So these
people, these mahajanas, they know what is the principles of religion. Religion
means bhagavata-dharma, to understand God and our relationship with God. That is
religion. You may call it Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian
religion, but real religion is that which teaches how to love God. Sa vai pumsam
paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. If by following the religious
system, you come to the platform of loving God, then your religious system is
perfect. Otherwise it is a simply waste of time, bogus religion, without
conception of God. So unless one understands what is God and what He says, and
we have to abide by that order, then we are religious and there is religion and
there is God, there is everything complete.
Pusta Krsna: This is off the
record, but one may ask if someone like Christ or Moses was not mentioned
amongst the mahajanas, present some sort of religion...
Prabhupada: No,
mahajana there is in Christian messiahs. There is mahajana. And later on, after
Christ, there was so many other. Saint Matthew, Saint Thomas, like that.
Mahajana is mentioned there. How can you say there is no mahajana? Mahajana
means who is strictly following the original religion. That is called mahajana.
Or who know the things as they are. They are called mahajana. And that means
parampara system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is learning Bhagavad-gita directly
from Krsna. He's mahajana. So you learn from Arjuna. And after hearing
Bhagavad-gita, as Arjuna acted, as Arjuna understood Krsna, you follow that.
Then mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Then you are following
the mahajana. You are on the real path. Just like we are. Here it is said,
mahajana, Svayambhu. Svayambhu means Brahma, Lord Brahma. So our, this
sampradaya, Gaudiya sampradaya, is Brahma-sampradaya. And Svayambhu, Narada.
Narada is also in the brahma-sampradaya. And Sambhu, Lord Siva, he is also
mahajana. He has got his sampradaya, Rudra-sampradaya. And similarly,
Sri-sampradaya. So all these sampradaya we must follow. Sampradaya vihina ye
mantras te nisphala matah. If you do not belong to sampradaya, mahajana, then
you are useless. You cannot concoct any religious system. So either you be
Christian or Hindu it doesn't matter. You have to follow the mahajana. If a
Christian says, "I don't believe in St. Thomas," what kind of Christian he is?
Similarly, it doesn't matter who is a maha... But real mahajana is he who is
strictly following the principle as enunciated by God. That is religious system.
Otherwise there is no religion. There is no question of religion. It is simply
concoction. Mano-dharmi, mental speculator. Mental speculation is not religion.
Religion is the order of Krsna and one who follows that order, he is religious.
That's all.
Pusta Krsna: This next question, Srila Prabhupada, question
nineteen.
Prahupada: Now this question is clear?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. So far
I can understand, you're saying that there's no need to label that there's one
religion in the world. Rather, everyone can...
Prabhupada: One religion is
there already, that how to love God. This is one religion. Will the Christian
say, "No. We don't want to love God"? Will the Christians say? Will the
Mohammedans say, "No, no. We don't want to love God"? So religion means how to
love God, and any religion which teaches how to love God, that is perfect. It
doesn't matter whether he's Christian or Muslim or Hindu. It doesn't matter. You
have to be educated to take your degree. It doesn't matter from which college
you take degree. Similarly, religion means you have to learn how to love God. If
you have no love for God, it is all useless. That is not religion. Dharmam tu
saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Saksad, Bhagavan Krsna says, "You
surrender unto Me." You cannot surrender until you love. You are surrendered to
me, I am also an Indian. Because you have love for me, therefore there is
surrender. If I say that "You die," you'll die. Why? Because you love me. So
when there will be surrender? Unless one loves God. Unless that platform is not
there, that "I love you, I can sacrifice everything for you." That is on the the
basic principle of love. Therefore that religion is perfect which teaches the
followers how to love God. This is religious principle. So let everyone come to
this platform, how to love God. That is Krsna consciousness. We are teaching
nothing, but training them how to love God, how they can sacrifice everything
for God. So that is religion. Otherwise a bogus waste of time, simply following
the ritualistic ceremonies. That is not religion. That is
superfluous.
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu
yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]
You
are very good, you are following your religious principle very strictly,
adherently. That's all right. But what about your love of God? "Oh, that I do
not know." So sastra says, srama eva hi... It is simply waste of time, and
simply laboring. That's all. If you have not learned to love God, then what is
the meaning of your religion? Then, when you're actually on the platform of love
of God, you understand your relationship with God, that "I am part and parcel of
God. Not only I am part and parcel of God, this dog is also part and parcel
of.... Every living entity." Then you'll extend love for animal also. If you
actually love God, then your love for insect also is there because you
understand that "This insect, it has got a different body only, but he is also
part and parcel, or my brother." Samah sarvesu bhutesu. Then you cannot maintain
slaughterhouse. If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ,
thou shall not kill, and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this....
That is not religion. Then srama eva hi kevalam. Your going to the temple and
church and everything is simply waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam. Because you
do not understand God. You have no love for God. That is going on, all over the
world. They're stamping under some sect, but there is no real religion. So in
order to bring them all in one platform, they have to accept the principles of
Bhagavad-gita, Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you do not accept
in the beginning Krsna, that He is the supreme, then you try to understand that
He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is education. There is somebody
supreme. So if I say, because I am Hindu, I am Indian, that "Krsna is the
supreme," you may say, "Then why Krsna? Krsna is Indian." "No. He is God. Just
like the sun rises first in India, then comes to Europe. But that does not mean
the sun is different. Similarly, Krsna, although appeared in India, now He has
come to Western countries, Krsna consciousness movement. You try to understand
whether Krsna is not God or God. But He is God. There is no doubt about it. If
you have got intelligence to understand what is God, then try to understand. But
He is God undoubtedly. So take to Krsna consciousness and abide by the order of
Krsna. Then everyone comes on the same platform, the religious platform, one
religion, Krsna consciousness.
Pusta Krsna: Question 19, this
is...
Prabhupada: Now, this is clear or not?
Pusta Krsna: Oh
yes.
Prabhupada: Anyone? We are part and parcel of Krsna, our business is to
surrender to Him. And Krsna personally advises that "You surrender unto Me. I
shall give you all protection." This is religion.
Pusta Krsna: Sometimes we
meet people in our preaching activities. They may, of course, claim to be very
devout Christian or Muslim, but at the same time they will blaspheme Krsna. Is
it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?
Prabhupada:
No, no. It is just like in our Krsna consciousness movement there are so many
Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It
is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to
understand what is God, then he will accept Krsna the Supreme Lord. If he knows
what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he
does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Krsna? He'll understand
Krsna as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll
understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then
anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in
certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is
meaning of God, that he will find in Krsna in fullness. Krsnas tu bhagavan
svayam [SB 1.3.28]. The sastra says how He is Bhagavan, what is Bhagavan. You
should understand and see from the activities of Krsna whether He is not
Bhagavan. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to
you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you
do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll
accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But
if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Krsna as God, there is no
doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gita. Everyone come and
take to Krsna and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is
perfect.
Pusta Krsna: But if the Christians are saying that "This is the only
platform, the Bible," and the Muslims are saying, "This is the only platform,
Koran," and the community of followers of Bhagavad...
Prabhupada: But we have
to see by the result. The result is... Only platform, that only platform, that
is decided... Sa vai pumsam paro dharmah. That is actually religion. How? Yato
bhaktir adhoksaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of
God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is
the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone
will say, "This, my, this property is the best, or my understanding is..." But
there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is
the process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and
other's relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody
can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of
God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love?
Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful
person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where
there is question of love?There must be a person. So who is that person we want
to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe
the personal beauty, capacity, strength, sad-aisvarya-purnah. There is no such
description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not
know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is
religion. That is first class religion. Is that clear or not?
Pusta Krsna:
Yes.
Prabhupada: When there is question of love, then you must know what is
God, then love. But if you do not know who is God, then how do you love
Him?
Pusta Krsna: Are these actually the tangible signs by which one can
judge what is real religion?
Prabhupada: Yes. Real religion is how to love
God. And love cannot be done without knowing the person whom you love. That is
the criterion, test. So if you have no conception, God, His personality, then
how you'll love? Where is the question of love? Love is something tangible. It
is not fictitious. So we accept, Krsna conscious people, Krsna is God, and we
are worshiping Krsna. And we are making progress. Just see our behavior and
other persons behavior and judge. Hm? What do you think?
Kuladri: We had one
priest who came. He was discussing with Kirtanananda Maharaja. He did not know
what God looked like, he never gave anything, never talked about God, but he
said he loved God.
Prabhupada: Then? What kind of love it is?
Kuladri: Nor
did he say his people ever came to church. He said, "At best they come once a
week." He said that's all that is necessary.
Prabhupada: Well, love does not
mean that you come once in a week at my house. Love means you come to my house,
give me some presentation, and take something from me. Dadati pratigrhnati
bhunkte bhojayate caiva sad-vidham priti-laksanam. Love means if you love
somebody, then you must give him something, you must accept something from him.
Dadati pratigrhnati. You must disclose your mind to him and he should disclose
his mind to you. Dadati pratigrhnati guhyam akhyati prcchati, and bhunkte
bhojayate. If you love somebody, you give him something eatable and whatever
eatable he offers you accept. These six kinds of exchange makes love. But if you
do not know the person, the boy or the girl, then where is the question of love?
Love begins... If you love some girl, if you love some boy, then you give
something, some presentation, and he gives you some presentation. That develops
love. You give something to eat and whatever he gives you to eat, you eat. You
disclose your mind, "My dear such and such, I love you. This is my ambition." He
dis... These are the exchange of love. So if there is no persons to person
meeting, where is the question of love? That is not love. If I love somebody and
weekly I visit that house, "This is the house," that's all. Where is the
exchange of love? Love means there is exchange. If you love somebody, if you
have not given anything to that somebody, neither you have taken something from
him, where is the love? Is that love? Means imperfect knowledge. You love... The
conclusion is religion means to love God, and to love God means you must know
who is God. There cannot be any other alternative. You must know the person who
is God. Then you exchange. That we are teaching. We are asking our disciples to
rise early in the morning, offer mangala arati, then bhoga arati. Are we so
fools, rascals, that we are wasting time in worshiping a doll like that?
Sometimes they think like that. But that is not the fact. You know definitely,
"Here is Krsna. He is God, and we must love Him like this." That is the
superexcellence of Krsna consciousness movement. We do everything definitely on
positive platform. Is that clear? Huh? Or anyone, any question?
Pradyumna:
Then... You said we must know God before we can love Him. So that means
devotional service is preceded by knowledge.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Yes, that
is the process in the Bhagavad-gita. There are 18 chapters. The whole 18
chapters is the education how to know God. And when Arjuna completely in
awareness he accepted, "Krsna, You are param brahma, param dhama [Bg. 10.12],"
that is understanding. Then surrender, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66].
Unless you know God, how you'll surrender? If some third class man comes, "You
surrender unto me." Will you do that? Why shall I surrender to him? You must
know, "Now, here is God. I must surrender." The 18th Chapter is described to
know God, and then Krsna proposes, "Surrender unto Me." Then Arjuna did it,
"Yes." So without knowing, how you can surrender? Know God. Then you surrender.
Otherwise how, blindly, you can surrender? That is not possible. So this is the
science how to know God, Bhagavad-gita. The preliminary. If you want to know
more, then read Bhagavatam. And if you are in intense love with God, then next,
Caitanya-caritamrta, how the intensification can be more intensified. That is
Caitanya-caritamrta. So Bhagavad-gita is the preliminary book to understand God
and surrender. And from the surrendering point, further progress, that is
Srimad-Bhagavatam. And when the love is intense, to make it more intensified,
that is Caitanya-caritamrta. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, mad after God.
Sunyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me. "I find everything vacant without
Krsna." That is the supreme ecstasy. So these things cannot happen (chuckles)
without love. If you love somebody, then if he's not there you find everything
vacant. Otherwise why? There are so many things. "How," people will say, "you
are seeing vacant? Everything is filled up." That is another stage,
transcendental platform. Lover and beloved, they can understand. Sunyayitam
jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me. That is the supreme stage of love. Is that
clear or not?
Pradyumna: There's just one more thing. What's the minimum
knowledge one must have to...
Prabhupada: God is great. That's all. God is
great. Krsna proved that He's great. Therefore He's God. Everyone says, "God is
great." Allah akbar, Muslims say. God is great. It is translated, "God is
great." And Hindu says, param brahma. So God is great. So Krsna proved that He
is all-great. Therefore He is God. Krsna, when He was present, He proved it that
He is the great. Therefore He's God. If you accept God is great, and if you find
somebody, he is great in everything, then he's God. How can I deny it? At least,
you can see Krsna great by His Bhagavad-gita. It is still going on. Five
thousand years passed, still Bhagavad-gita is accepted as the greatest book of
knowledge all over the world. Even among the Christians, among the Muslims,
those who are really learned, they take it, "Yes." That is greatness of Krsna,
the knowledge. Who can give such knowledge? That is the proof that He is God.
Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasah... Jnana, knowledge. Where is such
knowledge throughout the whole world? Everything, every line is sublime
knowledge. If one studies scrutinizingly Bhagavad-gita, you find Krsna is
Supreme Lord.
Pusta Krsna: Next question, Srila Prabhupada. Question
nineteen. "Do you envisage or envision a different role for Hinduism in the
Western countries where the influence of other great religions has been felt for
centuries?
Prabhupada: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot
be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that mattah parataram nanyat
kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. "There is no more superior authority than Me."
That is God. Now people is to understand that Krsna is God. There is no
different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Krsna said that "I am
the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is
so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Krsna. Nobody attempted. Although
five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority
Krsna. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Sri Caitanya
Mahaprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Krsna. He wanted that this
Krsna consciousness should be spread all over the world.
prthivite ache yata
nagaradi-grama
sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama
Krsna is not for India. He
is for everyone because He is God. He claims that "I am the seed-giving father
for all living entities." Not only the human society, but also other living
entities like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, and the animals, all living
entities. He says, aham bija-pradah pita [Bg. 14.4]. Everything is there, but
this cult of Krsna consciousness, or Bhagavad-gita as it is, was not preached
properly. Everyone interpreted Bhagavad-gita in his own way to satisfy his own
whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gita as it is,
and it is being effective. So it is not a different role. It is the actual role.
Nobody tried for it. Therefore Krsna was unknown, but we are trying for this for
the few years. But because it is reality, it is being accepted. It is being
accepted. No attempt was made that. So it is not a new role. The role is already
there: to preach. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's vision. He says especially to
Indian people,
bharata bhumite manusya-janma haila yara
janma sarthaka
kari' kara para-upakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]
Indians are meant to do this
business for para-upakara because all over the world they are unaware of Krsna.
So anyone who is actually Indian, he should attempt to broadcast the message of
Bhagavad-gita and Krsna. That is order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
bharata
bhumite manusya-janma haila yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara
para-upakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]
This is paropakara. They are suffering
without any knowledge of Krsna. Give them this knowledge. That is para-upakara,
doing welfare activities to others. So that attempt is now being made, and
people actually accepting. So it not a new role. The role is already there.
Caitanya Mahaprabhu five hundred years told, years before He told it. But the so
many swamis and yogis, they came here, they never introduced Krsna as the
Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now it is being done and people are accepting,
naturally. This is Krsna consciousness movement. So if everyone joins, either
Indian, non-Indian, in this movement there will be one religion and there will
be peace. Peace will prevail. This is the only way.
bhoktaram
yajna-tapasam
sarva-loka-mahesvaram
suhrdam sarva-bhutanam
jnatva mam
santim rcchati
[Bg. 5.29]
This is the way of santi, understand
Krsna, that He is the supreme enjoyer, He is the supreme proprietor, and He is
the supreme friend for everyone. Accept Krsna as your friend, you'll be happy.
This is the message of Krsna consciousness.
Pusta Krsna: This next question
is very closely related to the last question. Question twenty. "What is your
view regarding proselytization or preaching? If you are..."
Prabhupada: It is
not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real
understanding. Krsna says that mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. All living
entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4].
In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, aham bija-pradah, I am
the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not
only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian,
American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Krsna? So it not
the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them
to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Krsna. It is not
artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You
are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It
is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and
parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to
the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Krsna
consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position. He's in
diseased condition, he's thinking otherwise than servant of Krsna. Now this
movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant
of Krsna. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization that "You are Hindu, now you
are Christian." Or "You are Christian, now are Hindu." So if he does not know
what is his position by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian,
what benefit he will derive?
Pusta Krsna: The same ignorance.
Prabhupada:
If you keep him in the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a
Hindu Muslim or Muslim Hindu? That was going on, "holy war," between Christians
and the Muslims. Because both of them will die. (chuckles) And they are engaged
in holy war. War, but "holy war." "Holy impiety." Artificial change of "ism"
will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what is God.
One must learn how to love God. That is real life.
Pusta Krsna: There is one
more question, Srila Prabhupada. Question 21. "Are changes visible in Hinduism
in its doctrinal content, mode of individual and collective worship as a result
of Hinduism's contact with the West?"
Prabhupada: Yes, they are worshiping...
This is... First of all, you must forget that this Krsna consciousness movement
is not Hinduism. It is Vaisnavism. Vaisnava means Visnu is the Supreme
Personality of Godhead and one who loves Visnu or loves God, he is Vaisnava. So
Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many
demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all
materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that kamais tais tair
hrta-jnanah yajanti anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. Those who are worshiper of
demigods, they are lusty. Kamuka. And the kamuka platform is material world,
lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is
for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga,
give me name, fame, wealth, good wife, and so on, so on." Dhanam dehi rupam dehi
rupavati-bharyam dehi. Simply demanding for sense gratification. So that is not
love of Godhead. That is to select one agent of God and exact from him as much
as you can for your sense gratification. That is not recommended in the Vedic
religion. Vedic religion, although there are demigods, but the ultimate is om
tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah. Those who are suraya, actually
advanced, they see to the Visnu paramam padam. Visnor aradhanam param. The
worship of Visnu is the supreme worship. So actually everyone should be
worshiper of Visnu. And that is Vaisnavism. So Vaisnavism means for everyone or
sanatana dharma. That I have already explained. The human.... The living entity
is sanatana. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loke sanatana [Bg. 15.7]. He is
sanatana. God is sanatana. The exchange between God and the living entity is
called sanatana-dharma or Vaisnavism. So we are teaching that. We are not
teaching Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. We are teaching how to love God.
That's all. There is no question of proselytization. It is the natural. We are,
by nature we are lover of God. Just like father and son. The love is already
there. It cannot be extinguished. The father and son may be separated for many,
many years, but when they come together the affection immediately revives. So we
are teaching that, that we have got eternal relationship with God and revive it.
We are embarassed by establishing artificial relationship with my family,
country, and society, and so-called religions. These are all artificial. Real
relationship, that "God is great and I am His servant," that is real religion.
So we are teaching that thing.
Pusta Krsna: So the teaching is the same in
India as it is in the Western countries.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is being
proved. Otherwise how they are worshiping Krsna all over the world?
Pusta
Krsna: This question here is "In doctrinal content and mode of individual and
collective worship..." Is that to say that in your preaching in the Western
countries and your preaching in India, you haven't attempted... In the Western
countries where there is so many mlecchas, outcastes, so to
speak.
Prabhupada: That is accepted by Krsna. Even one is mleccha. Mam hi
partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. So there is no question.
That is artificial. One is mleccha or one is brahmana, but that is artificial.
That is skin. But within the skin of the mleccha or the brahmana the same spirit
soul is there. Therefore those who are pandita, those who are
learned,
vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva
sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
[Bg. 5.18]
One who is actually
learned, he sees the same spirit soul within the brahmana, within the mleccha,
within the cat. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976,
Vrndavana
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