Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.32
August 13, 1974, Vrndavana
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pradyumna: Translation: "O Brahmana Vyasadeva, it is decided by the learned that the best remedial measure for removing all troubles and miseries is to dedicate one's activities to the service of the Supreme Lord Personality of Godhead [Sri Krsna]."
Prabhupada:
etat samsucitam brahmams
tapa-traya-cikitsitam
yad isvare bhagavati
karma brahmani bhavitam
Now, in the last verse Narada Muni says, yena gacchanti tat-padam: "by which one can go back to home, back to Godhead, tat-padam." Padam means abode or position. Position. That is, after liberation, one can get the spiritual position.
Sayujya, sarupya, salokya, sarsti, samipya. There are different types of position, although they are all spiritual. The one is the sayujya-mukti, or to become one with the Supreme, merge into the Supreme. This is one position. Another position: sarupya, the same feature of the body. Just like Narayana, four-handed. In the Vaikuntha planets, the inhabitants, the citizens, they have got four hands. When Ajamila was delivered by the Visnudutas, they appeared exactly looking like Visnu. That is described. That is called sarupya. Sarupya, sarsti, same opulence. Or samipya, always near, associate. There are five kinds of... Gacchanti tat-padam. But out of the five, the first one, namely to merge into the existence of the Supreme, that is very dangerous, not safe.
Therefore Vaisnava never accepts sayujya-mukti, to become one with the Supreme. Because Vaisnava knows that impersonal advancement is risky. They know it perfectly. Therefore a Vaisnava never... Vaisnava is not anxious for any kind of mukti. Diyamanam na grhnanti. They don't want... Especially Gaudiya Vaisnavas, they don't want mukti. They are happy wherever they are existing. If they get the chance of chanting Hare Krsna mantra, that is perfection of life. They don't want anything more. Just like Haridasa Thakura. We should not imitate, but the position is like that. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. He was not at all afraid of this material world. He was very cautious. A spiritualist, a devotee, a Krsna conscious person, should be very cautious. But not afraid to meet any dangerous position. But must be cautious. Cautious in this way, that he may not fall down again under the clutches of maya. This should be, care should be taken.
If we fix up our mind... Mam eva ye prapadyante. If we fix up our saranagati, surrender to the Supreme, then there is no question of falling down. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Just like Haridasa Thakura was tested once by Maya, and in another time he was tested by a prostitute to allure him... He was young man. Haridasa Thakura was very beautiful young man. So under diplomacy of Ramacandra Khan he was to be entrapped. You know the story. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta. But Haridasa Thakura was not entrapped, because he was strong, strong enough. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti. Maya could not do anything. Although Maya came there at dead of night, very beautiful, attractive dress, attractive feature, attractive words -- this is maya -- so he was not allured. The... Rather, the vesya, or the prostitute, became converted into a Vaisnavi.
That is the resultant action. If one is polluted, if he comes in contact with Krsna, or Krsna's pure devotee, he or she will be purified. Krsna is never allured, neither Krsna is become a victim of anything material. Krsna's position is different. That is stated in the Isopanisad. Apapa-viddham. Krsna is never afflicted by any kind of contamination. He is purnah suddho nitya-muktah. Similarly, those who are advanced devotees, they are not allured. But the result is that one who comes to allure a devotee or one who comes to allure Krsna, he or she becomes purified. He or she. Kamat krodhad bhayat. Some way or other, if one comes in contact with Krsna, then he becomes purified. Tejiyasam na dosaya. Apparently, it appears that Krsna is dancing with the young girls at dead of night. But it is not that Krsna is contaminated. They become purified. On the... Actually, they are eternal associates of Krsna, the gopis. They are not ordinary women. There are all description in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. They were dancing in their spiritual body, not in the material body. They were dancing in their spiritual body. Their material body was lying down with their husband. These are, these descriptions are there in the Bhagavatam. So gopis' lila is not material. So there was no question of contamination. But materially this kind of activities, to dance at dead of night with young girl, that is not permitted. With other's wife. You can dance with your own wife, but you cannot do that. That is sinful.
So the real business is, as Narada Muni says, mayanubhavam, anubhavam avidam. One should know what is maya. Yena, after complete knowledge of maya and Krsna, yena gacchanti tat-padam, then one is promoted to the spiritual world. But the promotion... I have already described, there are five kinds of promotion, elevation. Out of that, the one promotion, namely to merge into the existence of the Supreme, that is very dangerous. Dangerous means that is risk of falling down. Because it is not possible to merge into the personal body of Krsna. Or you can take the bodily effulgence or the rays of the body. Everything is absolute. (aside:) Who is talking? So merge into the Brahman effulgence, that is also Krsna's bodily rays. Yasya prabha [Bs. 5.40]. So we are a small particle. So we, we merge into the Brahman effulgence. Brahman effulgence means collection of so many Brahmans together. That is Brahman effulgence. Unlimited number. Anantyaya kalpate. We are a small particle. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madya 19.140]. One ten-thousandth part, a small particle. Just like the sunshine, it is a combination of bright molecules of sunshine. Is not that?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, they are called photons.
Prabhupada: Protons?
Svarupa Damodara: No, photons.
Prabhupada: Photons. We have got name. But this is al... We know. Kana, kana, a small particle. So when they are put together, it appears homogeneous. But they are not homogeneous. They keep their individuality. They keep their individuality.
So that is eternal. That's a fact. But we are not only eternal... Krsna is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and His bodily effulgence, that is only eternal part. Sat means eternal, cit means knowledge, and ananda. So these three things are required. Simply eternity is not good. There must be knowledge and ananda. So this monist theory, Advaitavada, eternity, that may be achieved. Aruhya krcchrena, by severe penances and austerities, they can be attained. But patanty adhah anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. That is the statement of Bhagavata. They again fall down. Why? Anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. They could not get the information of the shelter of Krsna, lotus feet of Krsna. Without taking shelter of Krsna, they fall down again. Patanty adhah. Again.
We have explained many times. There are many Mayavadis, they merge, they give up this world, but again fall down, in so many ways. We have several times explained. So that is not very safe. (howling sound in background) What is that?
Devotee: Some dog.
Prabhupada: Dog friend? Hm. So Narada Muni, by the grace of the mahatmas, he could understand that this material position is very dangerous, and... Dangerous means duhkhalayam, always miserable condition. But one cannot understand. Unless he's Krsna conscious, he cannot understand what is the miserable condition of this material world. He cannot understand. This is maya. He's suffering, but he's thinking, "I am happy." This is called maya.
So when one becomes Krsna conscious by the grace of the Supreme Personality, guru-krsna, by the grace of guru and Krsna, then he understands that this place, this material world, is full of miseries. Then brahma-jijnasa. But foolishly people do not understand that it is a miserable condition. Sanatana Gosvami, he was minister. By contact with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu he could understand that "Although I am minister, although I am holding very high, exalted position, I am learned scholar in Sanskrit, Urdu, Parsi, but I am not happy." Therefore he approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Ke ami kene amaya jare tapa... He understands that "I am in the suffering." Suffering, everyone can understand. Why you are moving the fan? I am in suffering. But foolish people cannot understand. They think that I am enjoying. (laughter) Just see the example. Why I am moving the fan? Because I am suffering. Every step. Padam padam yad vipadam. Every step danger, every step suffering.
But on being illusioned, moha... It is called moha. Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. "I am this. I am brahmana." "I am ksatriya. I am American." Aham. False identification. "I am very strong, beautiful." "I am very ugly." "I am poor." "I am rich." Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. But you are none of these. You are simply servant of Krsna. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is happiness. Otherwise, in whichever way you identify... When they fail to identify with all this nonsense, then "I am God. I am Narayana." This will not help. When one will understand that "I am servant, eternal servant of Krsna..." This question was put by Sanatana Gosvami: ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya.
But foolish people, they do not understand what is tapa-traya, although we are suffering, everyone. This is tapa-traya. Just like we are feeling very warm. This is one of the traya. It is called adhidaivika. You cannot check it. Similarly, when you will feel severe cold, you will wrap, you'll go to the fireplace. That is another suffering. So either in warmth or in, I mean to say, winter, you are suffering. Everyone is suffering. Suffering is there. Even when we are within the womb of the mother there is suffering. For ten months, packed-up condition. That is suffering. Then come out from the womb of the mother -- suffering. In the womb also there is suffering. Not only packed-up, but there are worms with the stool and urine of the mother, and they find very delicate skin. They enjoy by cutting him. The worms enjoy. Naturally, he's... He cannot move. Therefore at the seventh month, when he's little conscious, he feels, "How can I get out of...? Krsna, save me." If one is little pious, he prays to Krsna, "Krsna, this time save me. Now I shall begin worshiping You so that get out of this entanglement of birth and death, birth and death." He becomes conscious.
But as soon as he comes out, then, maya is there. Maya is there, and there is father, there is mother, nice child. Now the child thinks, "I am very happy. I have got such a nice father. Nice father, nice mother. And other friends, they are taking..." This, these are described by Bhaktivinoda Thakura in a song. What is that song? Who can say? Janama haila...?
Indian devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, no, that after...
Indian devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Ah! So in this way maya is always entrapping him. We are always suffering three kinds of suffering -- adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika -- and we think, "Now we are very happy. Now we have got this electric fan, or air-conditioned room. So Yamaraja will not be able to enter, and I am secure. I have got good bank balance and good wife, good children..." No, no, no. This is illusion. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api klesada asa dehah [SB 5.5.4]. So long you will possess this material body, so you'll have to suffer. That is described here, tapa-traya. Tapa means miseries, and traya means three. So cikitsitam. A sane man, when he's suffering, he goes to the doctor, physician: "Sir, I am suffering from disease. Give me some medicine." So he takes medicine. That is sane man. And insane man, he does not go to the physician for treatment. He thinks, "This is natural. What is that?" This is the difference between foolish man and sane man.
The Vedas, therefore, instruct that tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One who is actually human being... Just like Sanatana Gosvami. Sanatana Gosvami, even up to the position of his ministership, he was not on the standard of human being. When he approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu and submitted, "Sir, I have come to You to know what I am, why I am suffering in this threefold miserable condition of life," that is human life. That is the beginning. Before that, it is animal life. Athato brahma jijnasa. When one is inquisitive about himself, aham brahmasmi, "Why I am suffering?"... Ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya.
So that realization is here. Therefore Narada Muni says, tapa-traya-cikitsitam. Cikitsitam means treatment. By the grace of guru, he could understand that "I am in this condition, material condition, means suffering from threefold types of miseries, and I am uselessly wasting time for material comforts, for economic development." Srama eva hi kevalam. "Even I act as a perfect brahmana or as a perfect ksatriya or a perfect vaisya or sudra, still, I am wasting time. Still, I am wasting time." How? That is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]
Dharma... Dharma means own dharma, brahmana's dharma, ksatriya's dharma, vaisya's dharma. There are different occupational duties. Do it. But side by side, you should test "Whether I am going to be perfect?" That is required.
That perfection, how it is made perfect? That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sa... What is that? Samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. What is that verse? Dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah, svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Svanusthitasya... Atah pumbhir dvija-sresthah. This is the word by Sukadeva Gosva..., Suta Gosvami. "You are all learned brahmanas..." Dvija-sresthah. Dvija means brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. But sresthah means brahmanas. They have got... Brahmanas, they are interested for spiritual advancement of life. Ksatriyas are not so much interested, neither the vaisyas, and what to speak of the sudras. And in the Kali-yuga almost everyone is a sudra. It is very difficult to find... So how they can be interested? Therefore training should be given how to become brahmana. Then he'll be interested. Otherwise, nobody is interested.
Therefore it is addressed, atah pumbhir dvija-sresthah, "O the best of the dvijas, twice-born." Varnasrama-vibhagasah. There is division, varnasrama. Varna and asrama. Varna means brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, and asrama means brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. So for the brahmana, one who is brahmana, for him, the four asramas are recommended. One... First of all he must become brahmacari, a brahmana, son of a brahmana. Then, when he's fully trained up, he should become a grhastha. Not should, but if he likes. Then... Otherwise, sometimes you will find naisthika-brahmacari. Never... Just like my Guru Maharaja was. He never married. Naisthika-brahmacari. So brahmacari, grhastha, then not to stuck up with the family affairs up to the end of death. No. At a certain stage, after fifty years, he must give up. That is called vanaprastha. And then, after being trained up in vanaprastha very nicely, he takes sannyasa. This is brahmana's..., four asrama. And for the ksatriya, up to vanaprastha. Up to vanaprastha. Just like Maharaja Yudhisthira and all the brothers, they left home, but the wife was there. That is called vanaprastha. They did not take sannyasa. Ksatriya. Up to vanaprastha. Vaisyas. No vanaprastha, no sannyasa. Up to grhastha. Brahmacari... Brahmacari is compulsory for the dvija. Because there is the training. And for the sudra there is no brahmacari. Only grhastha, married. Otherwise, life will be very irregular. So in this way varnasrama. So there are duties.
Therefore it is said, atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. So you may be staying in any asrama or any varna, it does not matter. But you should see whether your life is perfect. If you don't see... Otherwise, srama eva hi kevalam. If you don't see, "How my life is being perfected," then... Dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah, notpadayet... [SB 1.2.8]. If he does not awaken his dormant Krsna consciousness, then srama eva hi kevalam. Simply. Simply waste of time. But if he develops Krsna consciousness and he learns how to serve Krsna, how to please Krsna, that is perfect. That he understood... Etat samsucitam brahmams tapa-traya-cikitsitam. This is the cikitsa, treatment, of tapa... If you want to get relief from this material condition of life, then you should learn how to please Krsna, how to satisfy Krsna. That is called bhakti. Without bhakti, you cannot be relieved. Jnana, karma, yoga will not get you released from this tapa-traya. And if you execute devotional service, then immediately, immediately you become free from this tapa-traya.
Susukham kartum avyayam. Krsna says. It is so nice. Devotional service is so nice that susukham kartum avyayam, it is very pleasing to transact. And avyayam. And whatever you do, that is your permanent asset. Susukham kartum avyayam. How it is susukham? Why we have been constructing this big temple? Just to give you happiness. What is that happiness? You take prasadam, nice prasadam. Don't take more, otherwise you'll sleep more. But as much as you require. Yavat artha, prayojanam. Chant Hare Krsna mantra, and go to, back to home, back to Godhead. Is it not susukham? Otherwise you'll have to work like an ass day and night simply for sex life. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So sex life we also allow, but not illegitimate, not illicit. But that is not required. As you advance, you'll give it up. But so long you are not advanced, oh, there is... [break] ...according to regulation, even your grhastha does not have. But this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra, taking prasadam and work for Krsna... That is recommended here: karma brahmani bhavitam. Brahmani bhavitam. Only for satisfaction of Krsna, you work, chant Hare Krsna mantra, take prasadam. So bhakti-yoga... You un... Try to understand Krsna. Then? What will be the result? Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately.
So everyone should be alert to treat this miserable condition of material life, tapa-traya. Tapa-traya unmulanam. One has to uproot this tree of tapa-traya. That is perfection of life. Here Narada Muni realizing that tapa-traya-cikitsitam. Not unmulanam. Unmulanam means when we are liberated. That is unmulanam. But why... So long we are not liberated, the cikitsa. The cikitsa. In another place Pariksit Maharaja says, bhavausadhi. Bhavausadhi, the medicine for this disease of repetition of birth and death. So this Hare Krsna maha-mantra is the bhavausadhi. Some way or other you have got it, and you are chanting. Go on, continuously. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31]. This is the easiest process of tapa-trayonmulanam or tapa-traya-cikitsitam, and that is required in human life. Don't forget this principle. Continue this principle. And even there is little inconvenience, don't give up the association of devotees. Because... Rupa Gosvami says... What is that?
utsahan niscayad dhairyat
tat-tat-karma-pravartanat
sanga-tyagat sato vrtteh
sadbhir bhaktih prasidhyati
Sadhu-sanga. Don't give up the company of devotees. Then it will be lost. We are opening so many centers because to cooperate between devotees and devotees. Even there is inconvenience, don't give up the company of the devotees. Even I am not devotee, with the company of the devotees, working with devotees, I become devotee. Association has got such power.
So our business is how to get out of this tapa-traya. That is first-class civilization. Otherwise hackneyed. Again and again, bhutva bhutva praliyate. That is not. Now, those who are thinking of worshiping other demigods, that is not recommended. That is not recommended because Krsna clearly says, kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah prapadyante 'nya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. Even there are some inconveniences, Krsna is completely able to remove your inconvenience. Krsna assures, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami. So we should stick to the position of devotional service, execute regularly the orders of the spiritual master and the sastra, and try to understand Krsna. And you can understand Krsna only by service. There is no other way. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. If you want to see Krsna or want to understand Krsna, then it can be possible only by your service, nothing else.
So the best service, as recommended by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, is this preaching work. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-katha, krsna-katha. Amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. This is preaching. Doesn't require any good academic qualification. You have got your tongue. You chant Hare Krsna, and whomever you meet, you ask him, "You become a devotee of Krsna." That's all. In this way preach and live very nicely by eating krsna-prasada, chanting, dancing, and then get a life like Narada Muni. This is the formula.
Thank you very much. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.32 -- Vrndavana, August 13, 1974
Showing posts with label Vrndavana Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Vrndavana Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Show all posts
Friday, December 23, 2011
"See Whether Your Life Is Perfect"
Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.32
August 13, 1974, Vrndavana
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pradyumna: Translation: "O Brahmana Vyasadeva, it is decided by the learned that the best remedial measure for removing all troubles and miseries is to dedicate one's activities to the service of the Supreme Lord Personality of Godhead [Sri Krsna]."
Prabhupada:
etat samsucitam brahmams
tapa-traya-cikitsitam
yad isvare bhagavati
karma brahmani bhavitam
Now, in the last verse Narada Muni says, yena gacchanti tat-padam: "by which one can go back to home, back to Godhead, tat-padam." Padam means abode or position. Position. That is, after liberation, one can get the spiritual position.
Sayujya, sarupya, salokya, sarsti, samipya. There are different types of position, although they are all spiritual. The one is the sayujya-mukti, or to become one with the Supreme, merge into the Supreme. This is one position. Another position: sarupya, the same feature of the body. Just like Narayana, four-handed. In the Vaikuntha planets, the inhabitants, the citizens, they have got four hands. When Ajamila was delivered by the Visnudutas, they appeared exactly looking like Visnu. That is described. That is called sarupya. Sarupya, sarsti, same opulence. Or samipya, always near, associate. There are five kinds of... Gacchanti tat-padam. But out of the five, the first one, namely to merge into the existence of the Supreme, that is very dangerous, not safe.
Therefore Vaisnava never accepts sayujya-mukti, to become one with the Supreme. Because Vaisnava knows that impersonal advancement is risky. They know it perfectly. Therefore a Vaisnava never... Vaisnava is not anxious for any kind of mukti. Diyamanam na grhnanti. They don't want... Especially Gaudiya Vaisnavas, they don't want mukti. They are happy wherever they are existing. If they get the chance of chanting Hare Krsna mantra, that is perfection of life. They don't want anything more. Just like Haridasa Thakura. We should not imitate, but the position is like that. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. He was not at all afraid of this material world. He was very cautious. A spiritualist, a devotee, a Krsna conscious person, should be very cautious. But not afraid to meet any dangerous position. But must be cautious. Cautious in this way, that he may not fall down again under the clutches of maya. This should be, care should be taken.
If we fix up our mind... Mam eva ye prapadyante. If we fix up our saranagati, surrender to the Supreme, then there is no question of falling down. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Just like Haridasa Thakura was tested once by Maya, and in another time he was tested by a prostitute to allure him... He was young man. Haridasa Thakura was very beautiful young man. So under diplomacy of Ramacandra Khan he was to be entrapped. You know the story. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta. But Haridasa Thakura was not entrapped, because he was strong, strong enough. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti. Maya could not do anything. Although Maya came there at dead of night, very beautiful, attractive dress, attractive feature, attractive words -- this is maya -- so he was not allured. The... Rather, the vesya, or the prostitute, became converted into a Vaisnavi.
That is the resultant action. If one is polluted, if he comes in contact with Krsna, or Krsna's pure devotee, he or she will be purified. Krsna is never allured, neither Krsna is become a victim of anything material. Krsna's position is different. That is stated in the Isopanisad. Apapa-viddham. Krsna is never afflicted by any kind of contamination. He is purnah suddho nitya-muktah. Similarly, those who are advanced devotees, they are not allured. But the result is that one who comes to allure a devotee or one who comes to allure Krsna, he or she becomes purified. He or she. Kamat krodhad bhayat. Some way or other, if one comes in contact with Krsna, then he becomes purified. Tejiyasam na dosaya. Apparently, it appears that Krsna is dancing with the young girls at dead of night. But it is not that Krsna is contaminated. They become purified. On the... Actually, they are eternal associates of Krsna, the gopis. They are not ordinary women. There are all description in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. They were dancing in their spiritual body, not in the material body. They were dancing in their spiritual body. Their material body was lying down with their husband. These are, these descriptions are there in the Bhagavatam. So gopis' lila is not material. So there was no question of contamination. But materially this kind of activities, to dance at dead of night with young girl, that is not permitted. With other's wife. You can dance with your own wife, but you cannot do that. That is sinful.
So the real business is, as Narada Muni says, mayanubhavam, anubhavam avidam. One should know what is maya. Yena, after complete knowledge of maya and Krsna, yena gacchanti tat-padam, then one is promoted to the spiritual world. But the promotion... I have already described, there are five kinds of promotion, elevation. Out of that, the one promotion, namely to merge into the existence of the Supreme, that is very dangerous. Dangerous means that is risk of falling down. Because it is not possible to merge into the personal body of Krsna. Or you can take the bodily effulgence or the rays of the body. Everything is absolute. (aside:) Who is talking? So merge into the Brahman effulgence, that is also Krsna's bodily rays. Yasya prabha [Bs. 5.40]. So we are a small particle. So we, we merge into the Brahman effulgence. Brahman effulgence means collection of so many Brahmans together. That is Brahman effulgence. Unlimited number. Anantyaya kalpate. We are a small particle. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madya 19.140]. One ten-thousandth part, a small particle. Just like the sunshine, it is a combination of bright molecules of sunshine. Is not that?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, they are called photons.
Prabhupada: Protons?
Svarupa Damodara: No, photons.
Prabhupada: Photons. We have got name. But this is al... We know. Kana, kana, a small particle. So when they are put together, it appears homogeneous. But they are not homogeneous. They keep their individuality. They keep their individuality.
So that is eternal. That's a fact. But we are not only eternal... Krsna is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and His bodily effulgence, that is only eternal part. Sat means eternal, cit means knowledge, and ananda. So these three things are required. Simply eternity is not good. There must be knowledge and ananda. So this monist theory, Advaitavada, eternity, that may be achieved. Aruhya krcchrena, by severe penances and austerities, they can be attained. But patanty adhah anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. That is the statement of Bhagavata. They again fall down. Why? Anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. They could not get the information of the shelter of Krsna, lotus feet of Krsna. Without taking shelter of Krsna, they fall down again. Patanty adhah. Again.
We have explained many times. There are many Mayavadis, they merge, they give up this world, but again fall down, in so many ways. We have several times explained. So that is not very safe. (howling sound in background) What is that?
Devotee: Some dog.
Prabhupada: Dog friend? Hm. So Narada Muni, by the grace of the mahatmas, he could understand that this material position is very dangerous, and... Dangerous means duhkhalayam, always miserable condition. But one cannot understand. Unless he's Krsna conscious, he cannot understand what is the miserable condition of this material world. He cannot understand. This is maya. He's suffering, but he's thinking, "I am happy." This is called maya.
So when one becomes Krsna conscious by the grace of the Supreme Personality, guru-krsna, by the grace of guru and Krsna, then he understands that this place, this material world, is full of miseries. Then brahma-jijnasa. But foolishly people do not understand that it is a miserable condition. Sanatana Gosvami, he was minister. By contact with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu he could understand that "Although I am minister, although I am holding very high, exalted position, I am learned scholar in Sanskrit, Urdu, Parsi, but I am not happy." Therefore he approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Ke ami kene amaya jare tapa... He understands that "I am in the suffering." Suffering, everyone can understand. Why you are moving the fan? I am in suffering. But foolish people cannot understand. They think that I am enjoying. (laughter) Just see the example. Why I am moving the fan? Because I am suffering. Every step. Padam padam yad vipadam. Every step danger, every step suffering.
But on being illusioned, moha... It is called moha. Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. "I am this. I am brahmana." "I am ksatriya. I am American." Aham. False identification. "I am very strong, beautiful." "I am very ugly." "I am poor." "I am rich." Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. But you are none of these. You are simply servant of Krsna. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is happiness. Otherwise, in whichever way you identify... When they fail to identify with all this nonsense, then "I am God. I am Narayana." This will not help. When one will understand that "I am servant, eternal servant of Krsna..." This question was put by Sanatana Gosvami: ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya.
But foolish people, they do not understand what is tapa-traya, although we are suffering, everyone. This is tapa-traya. Just like we are feeling very warm. This is one of the traya. It is called adhidaivika. You cannot check it. Similarly, when you will feel severe cold, you will wrap, you'll go to the fireplace. That is another suffering. So either in warmth or in, I mean to say, winter, you are suffering. Everyone is suffering. Suffering is there. Even when we are within the womb of the mother there is suffering. For ten months, packed-up condition. That is suffering. Then come out from the womb of the mother -- suffering. In the womb also there is suffering. Not only packed-up, but there are worms with the stool and urine of the mother, and they find very delicate skin. They enjoy by cutting him. The worms enjoy. Naturally, he's... He cannot move. Therefore at the seventh month, when he's little conscious, he feels, "How can I get out of...? Krsna, save me." If one is little pious, he prays to Krsna, "Krsna, this time save me. Now I shall begin worshiping You so that get out of this entanglement of birth and death, birth and death." He becomes conscious.
But as soon as he comes out, then, maya is there. Maya is there, and there is father, there is mother, nice child. Now the child thinks, "I am very happy. I have got such a nice father. Nice father, nice mother. And other friends, they are taking..." This, these are described by Bhaktivinoda Thakura in a song. What is that song? Who can say? Janama haila...?
Indian devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, no, that after...
Indian devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Ah! So in this way maya is always entrapping him. We are always suffering three kinds of suffering -- adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika -- and we think, "Now we are very happy. Now we have got this electric fan, or air-conditioned room. So Yamaraja will not be able to enter, and I am secure. I have got good bank balance and good wife, good children..." No, no, no. This is illusion. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api klesada asa dehah [SB 5.5.4]. So long you will possess this material body, so you'll have to suffer. That is described here, tapa-traya. Tapa means miseries, and traya means three. So cikitsitam. A sane man, when he's suffering, he goes to the doctor, physician: "Sir, I am suffering from disease. Give me some medicine." So he takes medicine. That is sane man. And insane man, he does not go to the physician for treatment. He thinks, "This is natural. What is that?" This is the difference between foolish man and sane man.
The Vedas, therefore, instruct that tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One who is actually human being... Just like Sanatana Gosvami. Sanatana Gosvami, even up to the position of his ministership, he was not on the standard of human being. When he approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu and submitted, "Sir, I have come to You to know what I am, why I am suffering in this threefold miserable condition of life," that is human life. That is the beginning. Before that, it is animal life. Athato brahma jijnasa. When one is inquisitive about himself, aham brahmasmi, "Why I am suffering?"... Ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya.
So that realization is here. Therefore Narada Muni says, tapa-traya-cikitsitam. Cikitsitam means treatment. By the grace of guru, he could understand that "I am in this condition, material condition, means suffering from threefold types of miseries, and I am uselessly wasting time for material comforts, for economic development." Srama eva hi kevalam. "Even I act as a perfect brahmana or as a perfect ksatriya or a perfect vaisya or sudra, still, I am wasting time. Still, I am wasting time." How? That is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]
Dharma... Dharma means own dharma, brahmana's dharma, ksatriya's dharma, vaisya's dharma. There are different occupational duties. Do it. But side by side, you should test "Whether I am going to be perfect?" That is required.
That perfection, how it is made perfect? That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sa... What is that? Samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. What is that verse? Dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah, svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Svanusthitasya... Atah pumbhir dvija-sresthah. This is the word by Sukadeva Gosva..., Suta Gosvami. "You are all learned brahmanas..." Dvija-sresthah. Dvija means brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. But sresthah means brahmanas. They have got... Brahmanas, they are interested for spiritual advancement of life. Ksatriyas are not so much interested, neither the vaisyas, and what to speak of the sudras. And in the Kali-yuga almost everyone is a sudra. It is very difficult to find... So how they can be interested? Therefore training should be given how to become brahmana. Then he'll be interested. Otherwise, nobody is interested.
Therefore it is addressed, atah pumbhir dvija-sresthah, "O the best of the dvijas, twice-born." Varnasrama-vibhagasah. There is division, varnasrama. Varna and asrama. Varna means brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, and asrama means brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. So for the brahmana, one who is brahmana, for him, the four asramas are recommended. One... First of all he must become brahmacari, a brahmana, son of a brahmana. Then, when he's fully trained up, he should become a grhastha. Not should, but if he likes. Then... Otherwise, sometimes you will find naisthika-brahmacari. Never... Just like my Guru Maharaja was. He never married. Naisthika-brahmacari. So brahmacari, grhastha, then not to stuck up with the family affairs up to the end of death. No. At a certain stage, after fifty years, he must give up. That is called vanaprastha. And then, after being trained up in vanaprastha very nicely, he takes sannyasa. This is brahmana's..., four asrama. And for the ksatriya, up to vanaprastha. Up to vanaprastha. Just like Maharaja Yudhisthira and all the brothers, they left home, but the wife was there. That is called vanaprastha. They did not take sannyasa. Ksatriya. Up to vanaprastha. Vaisyas. No vanaprastha, no sannyasa. Up to grhastha. Brahmacari... Brahmacari is compulsory for the dvija. Because there is the training. And for the sudra there is no brahmacari. Only grhastha, married. Otherwise, life will be very irregular. So in this way varnasrama. So there are duties.
Therefore it is said, atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. So you may be staying in any asrama or any varna, it does not matter. But you should see whether your life is perfect. If you don't see... Otherwise, srama eva hi kevalam. If you don't see, "How my life is being perfected," then... Dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah, notpadayet... [SB 1.2.8]. If he does not awaken his dormant Krsna consciousness, then srama eva hi kevalam. Simply. Simply waste of time. But if he develops Krsna consciousness and he learns how to serve Krsna, how to please Krsna, that is perfect. That he understood... Etat samsucitam brahmams tapa-traya-cikitsitam. This is the cikitsa, treatment, of tapa... If you want to get relief from this material condition of life, then you should learn how to please Krsna, how to satisfy Krsna. That is called bhakti. Without bhakti, you cannot be relieved. Jnana, karma, yoga will not get you released from this tapa-traya. And if you execute devotional service, then immediately, immediately you become free from this tapa-traya.
Susukham kartum avyayam. Krsna says. It is so nice. Devotional service is so nice that susukham kartum avyayam, it is very pleasing to transact. And avyayam. And whatever you do, that is your permanent asset. Susukham kartum avyayam. How it is susukham? Why we have been constructing this big temple? Just to give you happiness. What is that happiness? You take prasadam, nice prasadam. Don't take more, otherwise you'll sleep more. But as much as you require. Yavat artha, prayojanam. Chant Hare Krsna mantra, and go to, back to home, back to Godhead. Is it not susukham? Otherwise you'll have to work like an ass day and night simply for sex life. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So sex life we also allow, but not illegitimate, not illicit. But that is not required. As you advance, you'll give it up. But so long you are not advanced, oh, there is... [break] ...according to regulation, even your grhastha does not have. But this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra, taking prasadam and work for Krsna... That is recommended here: karma brahmani bhavitam. Brahmani bhavitam. Only for satisfaction of Krsna, you work, chant Hare Krsna mantra, take prasadam. So bhakti-yoga... You un... Try to understand Krsna. Then? What will be the result? Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately.
So everyone should be alert to treat this miserable condition of material life, tapa-traya. Tapa-traya unmulanam. One has to uproot this tree of tapa-traya. That is perfection of life. Here Narada Muni realizing that tapa-traya-cikitsitam. Not unmulanam. Unmulanam means when we are liberated. That is unmulanam. But why... So long we are not liberated, the cikitsa. The cikitsa. In another place Pariksit Maharaja says, bhavausadhi. Bhavausadhi, the medicine for this disease of repetition of birth and death. So this Hare Krsna maha-mantra is the bhavausadhi. Some way or other you have got it, and you are chanting. Go on, continuously. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31]. This is the easiest process of tapa-trayonmulanam or tapa-traya-cikitsitam, and that is required in human life. Don't forget this principle. Continue this principle. And even there is little inconvenience, don't give up the association of devotees. Because... Rupa Gosvami says... What is that?
utsahan niscayad dhairyat
tat-tat-karma-pravartanat
sanga-tyagat sato vrtteh
sadbhir bhaktih prasidhyati
Sadhu-sanga. Don't give up the company of devotees. Then it will be lost. We are opening so many centers because to cooperate between devotees and devotees. Even there is inconvenience, don't give up the company of the devotees. Even I am not devotee, with the company of the devotees, working with devotees, I become devotee. Association has got such power.
So our business is how to get out of this tapa-traya. That is first-class civilization. Otherwise hackneyed. Again and again, bhutva bhutva praliyate. That is not. Now, those who are thinking of worshiping other demigods, that is not recommended. That is not recommended because Krsna clearly says, kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah prapadyante 'nya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. Even there are some inconveniences, Krsna is completely able to remove your inconvenience. Krsna assures, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami. So we should stick to the position of devotional service, execute regularly the orders of the spiritual master and the sastra, and try to understand Krsna. And you can understand Krsna only by service. There is no other way. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. If you want to see Krsna or want to understand Krsna, then it can be possible only by your service, nothing else.
So the best service, as recommended by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, is this preaching work. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-katha, krsna-katha. Amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. This is preaching. Doesn't require any good academic qualification. You have got your tongue. You chant Hare Krsna, and whomever you meet, you ask him, "You become a devotee of Krsna." That's all. In this way preach and live very nicely by eating krsna-prasada, chanting, dancing, and then get a life like Narada Muni. This is the formula.
Thank you very much. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.32 -- Vrndavana, August 13, 1974
August 13, 1974, Vrndavana
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pradyumna: Translation: "O Brahmana Vyasadeva, it is decided by the learned that the best remedial measure for removing all troubles and miseries is to dedicate one's activities to the service of the Supreme Lord Personality of Godhead [Sri Krsna]."
Prabhupada:
etat samsucitam brahmams
tapa-traya-cikitsitam
yad isvare bhagavati
karma brahmani bhavitam
Now, in the last verse Narada Muni says, yena gacchanti tat-padam: "by which one can go back to home, back to Godhead, tat-padam." Padam means abode or position. Position. That is, after liberation, one can get the spiritual position.
Sayujya, sarupya, salokya, sarsti, samipya. There are different types of position, although they are all spiritual. The one is the sayujya-mukti, or to become one with the Supreme, merge into the Supreme. This is one position. Another position: sarupya, the same feature of the body. Just like Narayana, four-handed. In the Vaikuntha planets, the inhabitants, the citizens, they have got four hands. When Ajamila was delivered by the Visnudutas, they appeared exactly looking like Visnu. That is described. That is called sarupya. Sarupya, sarsti, same opulence. Or samipya, always near, associate. There are five kinds of... Gacchanti tat-padam. But out of the five, the first one, namely to merge into the existence of the Supreme, that is very dangerous, not safe.
Therefore Vaisnava never accepts sayujya-mukti, to become one with the Supreme. Because Vaisnava knows that impersonal advancement is risky. They know it perfectly. Therefore a Vaisnava never... Vaisnava is not anxious for any kind of mukti. Diyamanam na grhnanti. They don't want... Especially Gaudiya Vaisnavas, they don't want mukti. They are happy wherever they are existing. If they get the chance of chanting Hare Krsna mantra, that is perfection of life. They don't want anything more. Just like Haridasa Thakura. We should not imitate, but the position is like that. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. He was not at all afraid of this material world. He was very cautious. A spiritualist, a devotee, a Krsna conscious person, should be very cautious. But not afraid to meet any dangerous position. But must be cautious. Cautious in this way, that he may not fall down again under the clutches of maya. This should be, care should be taken.
If we fix up our mind... Mam eva ye prapadyante. If we fix up our saranagati, surrender to the Supreme, then there is no question of falling down. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Just like Haridasa Thakura was tested once by Maya, and in another time he was tested by a prostitute to allure him... He was young man. Haridasa Thakura was very beautiful young man. So under diplomacy of Ramacandra Khan he was to be entrapped. You know the story. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta. But Haridasa Thakura was not entrapped, because he was strong, strong enough. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti. Maya could not do anything. Although Maya came there at dead of night, very beautiful, attractive dress, attractive feature, attractive words -- this is maya -- so he was not allured. The... Rather, the vesya, or the prostitute, became converted into a Vaisnavi.
That is the resultant action. If one is polluted, if he comes in contact with Krsna, or Krsna's pure devotee, he or she will be purified. Krsna is never allured, neither Krsna is become a victim of anything material. Krsna's position is different. That is stated in the Isopanisad. Apapa-viddham. Krsna is never afflicted by any kind of contamination. He is purnah suddho nitya-muktah. Similarly, those who are advanced devotees, they are not allured. But the result is that one who comes to allure a devotee or one who comes to allure Krsna, he or she becomes purified. He or she. Kamat krodhad bhayat. Some way or other, if one comes in contact with Krsna, then he becomes purified. Tejiyasam na dosaya. Apparently, it appears that Krsna is dancing with the young girls at dead of night. But it is not that Krsna is contaminated. They become purified. On the... Actually, they are eternal associates of Krsna, the gopis. They are not ordinary women. There are all description in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. They were dancing in their spiritual body, not in the material body. They were dancing in their spiritual body. Their material body was lying down with their husband. These are, these descriptions are there in the Bhagavatam. So gopis' lila is not material. So there was no question of contamination. But materially this kind of activities, to dance at dead of night with young girl, that is not permitted. With other's wife. You can dance with your own wife, but you cannot do that. That is sinful.
So the real business is, as Narada Muni says, mayanubhavam, anubhavam avidam. One should know what is maya. Yena, after complete knowledge of maya and Krsna, yena gacchanti tat-padam, then one is promoted to the spiritual world. But the promotion... I have already described, there are five kinds of promotion, elevation. Out of that, the one promotion, namely to merge into the existence of the Supreme, that is very dangerous. Dangerous means that is risk of falling down. Because it is not possible to merge into the personal body of Krsna. Or you can take the bodily effulgence or the rays of the body. Everything is absolute. (aside:) Who is talking? So merge into the Brahman effulgence, that is also Krsna's bodily rays. Yasya prabha [Bs. 5.40]. So we are a small particle. So we, we merge into the Brahman effulgence. Brahman effulgence means collection of so many Brahmans together. That is Brahman effulgence. Unlimited number. Anantyaya kalpate. We are a small particle. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madya 19.140]. One ten-thousandth part, a small particle. Just like the sunshine, it is a combination of bright molecules of sunshine. Is not that?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, they are called photons.
Prabhupada: Protons?
Svarupa Damodara: No, photons.
Prabhupada: Photons. We have got name. But this is al... We know. Kana, kana, a small particle. So when they are put together, it appears homogeneous. But they are not homogeneous. They keep their individuality. They keep their individuality.
So that is eternal. That's a fact. But we are not only eternal... Krsna is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and His bodily effulgence, that is only eternal part. Sat means eternal, cit means knowledge, and ananda. So these three things are required. Simply eternity is not good. There must be knowledge and ananda. So this monist theory, Advaitavada, eternity, that may be achieved. Aruhya krcchrena, by severe penances and austerities, they can be attained. But patanty adhah anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. That is the statement of Bhagavata. They again fall down. Why? Anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. They could not get the information of the shelter of Krsna, lotus feet of Krsna. Without taking shelter of Krsna, they fall down again. Patanty adhah. Again.
We have explained many times. There are many Mayavadis, they merge, they give up this world, but again fall down, in so many ways. We have several times explained. So that is not very safe. (howling sound in background) What is that?
Devotee: Some dog.
Prabhupada: Dog friend? Hm. So Narada Muni, by the grace of the mahatmas, he could understand that this material position is very dangerous, and... Dangerous means duhkhalayam, always miserable condition. But one cannot understand. Unless he's Krsna conscious, he cannot understand what is the miserable condition of this material world. He cannot understand. This is maya. He's suffering, but he's thinking, "I am happy." This is called maya.
So when one becomes Krsna conscious by the grace of the Supreme Personality, guru-krsna, by the grace of guru and Krsna, then he understands that this place, this material world, is full of miseries. Then brahma-jijnasa. But foolishly people do not understand that it is a miserable condition. Sanatana Gosvami, he was minister. By contact with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu he could understand that "Although I am minister, although I am holding very high, exalted position, I am learned scholar in Sanskrit, Urdu, Parsi, but I am not happy." Therefore he approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Ke ami kene amaya jare tapa... He understands that "I am in the suffering." Suffering, everyone can understand. Why you are moving the fan? I am in suffering. But foolish people cannot understand. They think that I am enjoying. (laughter) Just see the example. Why I am moving the fan? Because I am suffering. Every step. Padam padam yad vipadam. Every step danger, every step suffering.
But on being illusioned, moha... It is called moha. Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. "I am this. I am brahmana." "I am ksatriya. I am American." Aham. False identification. "I am very strong, beautiful." "I am very ugly." "I am poor." "I am rich." Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. But you are none of these. You are simply servant of Krsna. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is happiness. Otherwise, in whichever way you identify... When they fail to identify with all this nonsense, then "I am God. I am Narayana." This will not help. When one will understand that "I am servant, eternal servant of Krsna..." This question was put by Sanatana Gosvami: ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya.
But foolish people, they do not understand what is tapa-traya, although we are suffering, everyone. This is tapa-traya. Just like we are feeling very warm. This is one of the traya. It is called adhidaivika. You cannot check it. Similarly, when you will feel severe cold, you will wrap, you'll go to the fireplace. That is another suffering. So either in warmth or in, I mean to say, winter, you are suffering. Everyone is suffering. Suffering is there. Even when we are within the womb of the mother there is suffering. For ten months, packed-up condition. That is suffering. Then come out from the womb of the mother -- suffering. In the womb also there is suffering. Not only packed-up, but there are worms with the stool and urine of the mother, and they find very delicate skin. They enjoy by cutting him. The worms enjoy. Naturally, he's... He cannot move. Therefore at the seventh month, when he's little conscious, he feels, "How can I get out of...? Krsna, save me." If one is little pious, he prays to Krsna, "Krsna, this time save me. Now I shall begin worshiping You so that get out of this entanglement of birth and death, birth and death." He becomes conscious.
But as soon as he comes out, then, maya is there. Maya is there, and there is father, there is mother, nice child. Now the child thinks, "I am very happy. I have got such a nice father. Nice father, nice mother. And other friends, they are taking..." This, these are described by Bhaktivinoda Thakura in a song. What is that song? Who can say? Janama haila...?
Indian devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, no, that after...
Indian devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Ah! So in this way maya is always entrapping him. We are always suffering three kinds of suffering -- adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika -- and we think, "Now we are very happy. Now we have got this electric fan, or air-conditioned room. So Yamaraja will not be able to enter, and I am secure. I have got good bank balance and good wife, good children..." No, no, no. This is illusion. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api klesada asa dehah [SB 5.5.4]. So long you will possess this material body, so you'll have to suffer. That is described here, tapa-traya. Tapa means miseries, and traya means three. So cikitsitam. A sane man, when he's suffering, he goes to the doctor, physician: "Sir, I am suffering from disease. Give me some medicine." So he takes medicine. That is sane man. And insane man, he does not go to the physician for treatment. He thinks, "This is natural. What is that?" This is the difference between foolish man and sane man.
The Vedas, therefore, instruct that tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One who is actually human being... Just like Sanatana Gosvami. Sanatana Gosvami, even up to the position of his ministership, he was not on the standard of human being. When he approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu and submitted, "Sir, I have come to You to know what I am, why I am suffering in this threefold miserable condition of life," that is human life. That is the beginning. Before that, it is animal life. Athato brahma jijnasa. When one is inquisitive about himself, aham brahmasmi, "Why I am suffering?"... Ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya.
So that realization is here. Therefore Narada Muni says, tapa-traya-cikitsitam. Cikitsitam means treatment. By the grace of guru, he could understand that "I am in this condition, material condition, means suffering from threefold types of miseries, and I am uselessly wasting time for material comforts, for economic development." Srama eva hi kevalam. "Even I act as a perfect brahmana or as a perfect ksatriya or a perfect vaisya or sudra, still, I am wasting time. Still, I am wasting time." How? That is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]
Dharma... Dharma means own dharma, brahmana's dharma, ksatriya's dharma, vaisya's dharma. There are different occupational duties. Do it. But side by side, you should test "Whether I am going to be perfect?" That is required.
That perfection, how it is made perfect? That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sa... What is that? Samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. What is that verse? Dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah, svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Svanusthitasya... Atah pumbhir dvija-sresthah. This is the word by Sukadeva Gosva..., Suta Gosvami. "You are all learned brahmanas..." Dvija-sresthah. Dvija means brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. But sresthah means brahmanas. They have got... Brahmanas, they are interested for spiritual advancement of life. Ksatriyas are not so much interested, neither the vaisyas, and what to speak of the sudras. And in the Kali-yuga almost everyone is a sudra. It is very difficult to find... So how they can be interested? Therefore training should be given how to become brahmana. Then he'll be interested. Otherwise, nobody is interested.
Therefore it is addressed, atah pumbhir dvija-sresthah, "O the best of the dvijas, twice-born." Varnasrama-vibhagasah. There is division, varnasrama. Varna and asrama. Varna means brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, and asrama means brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. So for the brahmana, one who is brahmana, for him, the four asramas are recommended. One... First of all he must become brahmacari, a brahmana, son of a brahmana. Then, when he's fully trained up, he should become a grhastha. Not should, but if he likes. Then... Otherwise, sometimes you will find naisthika-brahmacari. Never... Just like my Guru Maharaja was. He never married. Naisthika-brahmacari. So brahmacari, grhastha, then not to stuck up with the family affairs up to the end of death. No. At a certain stage, after fifty years, he must give up. That is called vanaprastha. And then, after being trained up in vanaprastha very nicely, he takes sannyasa. This is brahmana's..., four asrama. And for the ksatriya, up to vanaprastha. Up to vanaprastha. Just like Maharaja Yudhisthira and all the brothers, they left home, but the wife was there. That is called vanaprastha. They did not take sannyasa. Ksatriya. Up to vanaprastha. Vaisyas. No vanaprastha, no sannyasa. Up to grhastha. Brahmacari... Brahmacari is compulsory for the dvija. Because there is the training. And for the sudra there is no brahmacari. Only grhastha, married. Otherwise, life will be very irregular. So in this way varnasrama. So there are duties.
Therefore it is said, atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. So you may be staying in any asrama or any varna, it does not matter. But you should see whether your life is perfect. If you don't see... Otherwise, srama eva hi kevalam. If you don't see, "How my life is being perfected," then... Dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah, notpadayet... [SB 1.2.8]. If he does not awaken his dormant Krsna consciousness, then srama eva hi kevalam. Simply. Simply waste of time. But if he develops Krsna consciousness and he learns how to serve Krsna, how to please Krsna, that is perfect. That he understood... Etat samsucitam brahmams tapa-traya-cikitsitam. This is the cikitsa, treatment, of tapa... If you want to get relief from this material condition of life, then you should learn how to please Krsna, how to satisfy Krsna. That is called bhakti. Without bhakti, you cannot be relieved. Jnana, karma, yoga will not get you released from this tapa-traya. And if you execute devotional service, then immediately, immediately you become free from this tapa-traya.
Susukham kartum avyayam. Krsna says. It is so nice. Devotional service is so nice that susukham kartum avyayam, it is very pleasing to transact. And avyayam. And whatever you do, that is your permanent asset. Susukham kartum avyayam. How it is susukham? Why we have been constructing this big temple? Just to give you happiness. What is that happiness? You take prasadam, nice prasadam. Don't take more, otherwise you'll sleep more. But as much as you require. Yavat artha, prayojanam. Chant Hare Krsna mantra, and go to, back to home, back to Godhead. Is it not susukham? Otherwise you'll have to work like an ass day and night simply for sex life. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So sex life we also allow, but not illegitimate, not illicit. But that is not required. As you advance, you'll give it up. But so long you are not advanced, oh, there is... [break] ...according to regulation, even your grhastha does not have. But this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra, taking prasadam and work for Krsna... That is recommended here: karma brahmani bhavitam. Brahmani bhavitam. Only for satisfaction of Krsna, you work, chant Hare Krsna mantra, take prasadam. So bhakti-yoga... You un... Try to understand Krsna. Then? What will be the result? Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately.
So everyone should be alert to treat this miserable condition of material life, tapa-traya. Tapa-traya unmulanam. One has to uproot this tree of tapa-traya. That is perfection of life. Here Narada Muni realizing that tapa-traya-cikitsitam. Not unmulanam. Unmulanam means when we are liberated. That is unmulanam. But why... So long we are not liberated, the cikitsa. The cikitsa. In another place Pariksit Maharaja says, bhavausadhi. Bhavausadhi, the medicine for this disease of repetition of birth and death. So this Hare Krsna maha-mantra is the bhavausadhi. Some way or other you have got it, and you are chanting. Go on, continuously. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31]. This is the easiest process of tapa-trayonmulanam or tapa-traya-cikitsitam, and that is required in human life. Don't forget this principle. Continue this principle. And even there is little inconvenience, don't give up the association of devotees. Because... Rupa Gosvami says... What is that?
utsahan niscayad dhairyat
tat-tat-karma-pravartanat
sanga-tyagat sato vrtteh
sadbhir bhaktih prasidhyati
Sadhu-sanga. Don't give up the company of devotees. Then it will be lost. We are opening so many centers because to cooperate between devotees and devotees. Even there is inconvenience, don't give up the company of the devotees. Even I am not devotee, with the company of the devotees, working with devotees, I become devotee. Association has got such power.
So our business is how to get out of this tapa-traya. That is first-class civilization. Otherwise hackneyed. Again and again, bhutva bhutva praliyate. That is not. Now, those who are thinking of worshiping other demigods, that is not recommended. That is not recommended because Krsna clearly says, kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah prapadyante 'nya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. Even there are some inconveniences, Krsna is completely able to remove your inconvenience. Krsna assures, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami. So we should stick to the position of devotional service, execute regularly the orders of the spiritual master and the sastra, and try to understand Krsna. And you can understand Krsna only by service. There is no other way. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. If you want to see Krsna or want to understand Krsna, then it can be possible only by your service, nothing else.
So the best service, as recommended by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, is this preaching work. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-katha, krsna-katha. Amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. This is preaching. Doesn't require any good academic qualification. You have got your tongue. You chant Hare Krsna, and whomever you meet, you ask him, "You become a devotee of Krsna." That's all. In this way preach and live very nicely by eating krsna-prasada, chanting, dancing, and then get a life like Narada Muni. This is the formula.
Thank you very much. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.32 -- Vrndavana, August 13, 1974
Thursday, December 22, 2011
"Muni Extraordinaire"
Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.23
August 4, 1974, Vrndavana
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pradyumna: "In the last millennium I was born as the son of a certain maidservant engaged in the service of brahmanas, who were following the principles of Vedanta. When they were living together during the four months of the rainy season, I was engaged in their personal service."
Prabhupada:
aham puratita-bhave 'bhavam mune
dasyas tu kasyascana veda-vadinam
nirupito balaka eva yoginam
susrusane pravrsi nirviviksatam
So this is the previous life history of Narada Muni. Narada Muni is explaining about his previous life to Vyasadeva. What was the previous life? The son of a maidservant. Maidservant means sudrani, not born of a brahmana family. Low class, maidservant. So from this position, Narada Muni became the greatest muni. He is describing his own life.
This is most important point, that even... First of all, he was a boy, three-, four-or five-years-old boy, no knowledge. And second point is that he was not born in a very high-grade family, aristocratic family, rich family. No. Maidservant's son. He did not give any information of his father also. Dasyah. Dasyah means there is no certainty who is father. Dasi. Dasi-putra. The... Formerly, big, big men, especially ksatriyas... Just like when Vasudeva was married with Devaki, so with Devaki many hundreds maidservants were given, with Vasudeva. That is the system, especially among the ksatriyas. When a ksatriya king is married, then along with the queen, many girlfriends of the queen, they are also taken away. This is also nice solution of social problem. Yes. Because female population is always greater than the male population. And... Therefore, the royal order, they would accept all these girls as associates. And sometimes they would be pregnant, and there will be son. They were called dasi-putra. They were not neglected. They were equally taken care of. But they were not heir to the throne. Only the married wife's son... Just like Vidura. Vidura's birth was like that. Vidura was not born of the queen, but maidservant. And Dhrtarastra, he took him as his brother. There was no discrimination, because one is born of the maidservant... No. Equal treatment. Only the restriction was that he would not inherit the throne. That was the system.
So here... Of course, it appears that Narada Muni was not of that kind of dasi-putra. Ordinary dasi-putra. Because the such dasi, or the maidservant, they do not come out for common service. They remain within the palace. So the point is that Narada Muni in his previous life was not very recognized family, neither brahmana nor nothing of the sort. Still, he became next life the Narada Muni. And what is the cause? What... The cause is, nirupito balaka eva yoginam: "I was appointed a boy servant of the devotees." The importance is that devotee is so important that if anyone renders a little service, then he becomes elevated to the spiritual life. What balaka... Balaka means there was a boy. "You, boy, bring me this," or "Do this. Just wash my cloth," or "Just set up my bedding." Like that. This much servant. Or "Wash this dish." So the devotional service is so powerful, by doing this... This will be described later on, that simply by doing this little service to the yoginam, he was so blessed that next life he became Narada. This point is very important point. That is being explained.
Another point is that when one is situated... Narada, after this life, he became situated in his spiritual life. In the spiritual life, therefore, he was able to go anywhere. Narada is traveling all over the universe. Not only within this material world, in the spiritual world also. He goes to see Narayana in the spiritual world. (aside:) This boy is sleeping. You can... You go back side. Those who will sleep can go back side. So this is one point, that in spiritual life one is free to move. There is no requisition of this airplane or... Even in this material world, those who are very highly elevated... That is called... They live in the Siddhaloka. There is a... That is described in the Second Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Siddhaloka.
Now, Siddhaloka, the inhabitants of the Siddhaloka, they don't require any plane. They can go... Because siddha means the inhabitants in that planet, they are all perfect in asta-siddhi-yoga. By yogic perfection, one can travel in the space. Just like Durvasa Muni. He traveled in the space. When there was chasing by the Sudarsana-cakra, he, by yogic power, he fled from one place to another, one place... He even entered the spiritual nature and saw Visnu personally. Still he was condemned. The Sudarsana-cakra was after him, chasing. He tried to insult Ambarisa Maharaja, Vaisnava. So... He wanted to kill. Not only insult, but he wanted to kill him. A demon was immediately produced by his hair. The yogis can do that. Anima... Anima, laghima, prapti-siddhi... Whatever they like... Immediately he brought one demon. So...
But Vaisnava, Maharaja Ambarisa, he was neither yogi, nor he could display any yogic perfection. But he was protected by Krsna, by the Sudarsana-cakra. This is Vaisnava's... Vaisnavas do not require to practice any yogic power to become materially powerful. He doesn't require. Simply his surrender to Krsna makes him all-powerful. This is the position of Vaisnava. Vaisnavas, they do not care for all these yogic powers. They depend on Krsna. And who can be... Krsna is the yogesvara, all, master of... Yatra krsno... yatra yogesvarah krsnah. So if one takes shelter of the Yogesvara, the master of all mystic power, why he should bother about this yogic power? A poor man may try to earn money by hard labor, but one who is a very, very rich man's son, why should he labor? The father's money is sufficient. Similarly, a devotee, a sincere devotee, he is under the protection of Krsna. And under the protection of Krsna means under the protection of all six kinds of opulences: riches, then strength, then reputation, wisdom, renunciation, beauty -- the six kinds of opulence. Krsna, under... Yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. This is stated here.
Because if you get somehow or other Krsna's favor, then there is no question of any more profit. Sufficient profit. You have got everything. Simply be sincere to the service of Krsna. Then you have got everything. There is no need of trying for this or that. Yasmin sthito gurunapi duhkhena na vicalyate. If one is situated under the shelter of Krsna's lotus feet, then gurunapi duhkhena na vicalyate. If there is dangerous type of inconvenience, then he's not disturbed. He knows... Just like Ambarisa Maharaja, Prahlada Maharaja... There are many instances. His father, Hiranyakasipu, was giving him trouble, chastising. He was patient, not disturbed. So be sure that if you are, if you have actually taken shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna, there is no question of danger. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. And Krsna confirms it: "Kaunteya, My dear Arjuna, you declare to the world that My devotee will be never vanquished by any enemy." That is Krsna's assurance. So why should we try to...
Of course, if Krsna's order is there, that is another thing. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was ordered by Krsna, "You fight." When Krsna says, "You fight," you must fight. Not that Krsna says, "You fight," and you say, "No, I have taken Your shelter. Why shall I fight?" No, that is not. That is disobedience. When Krsna says, "You fight," you must fight. When... Our life should be that whatever Krsna says... That is full surrender. Or His representative says, that is my life. Visvanatha Cakravarti has explained in the Bhagavad-gita.
vyavasayatmika buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-sakha hy anantas ca
buddhayo 'vyavasayinam
So our... We should be fixed up on the order of Krsna coming through the spiritual master. Then our life is successful. This is the secret of success in spiritual life. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. This is assured. We have to please the spiritual master. And if he's pleased, then Krsna is pleased. The argument that "We do not see Krsna personally. How we can satisfy Him?"... You satisfy your spiritual master, then Krsna is pleased. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasyaprasadat... **. And if you want to please directly Krsna, and show your spiritual master plantain, then na gatih kuto 'pi. It will be all useless. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi **.
So this Narada Muni's history is very interesting, that he was not educated, a boy, and not coming from cultured family -- maidservant's son. The only qualification was that nirupito balaka eva yoginam. He was engaged as a boy servant to the yogis. So how he got this opportunity? That is here: susrusane. Susrusane means in service; pravrsi, during the rainy season. Because saintly persons, mendicants, sannyasis, their business is to travel. Travel. When, of course, something established, then a sannyasi can rest, paramahamsa stage. When there are many disciples, workers, it is going on, then he can take rest. Otherwise it is the business of the sannyasi to travel.
So these yogis, or the sannyasis, they were traveling all over the world or all over the country or all over the province... Their business is traveling. But during rainy season, because it is very difficult... Formerly, there was no airplane. Or might be, but they were not traveling, walking. So for these four months, rainy season, they used to take shelter at a nice place in a pilgrimage and wait. Until the rainy season is finished, they would not go out. That is called caturmasya. This is the meaning of caturmasya. So Narada Muni got this opportunity. Now, you can calculate. This is knowledge. Then he had the opportunity to serve these yogis for four months only. Not more than that. And he became Narada. Just understand how much powerful is service to the Vaisnavas, devotees. And that is also confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:
kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah
Yad-apasrayasrayah means if anyone takes the shelter of the devotee, apasrayasrayah... A devotee takes the shelter of Krsna's lotus feet, and if somebody else takes the shelter of the lotus feet of the devotee, sudhyanti, becomes purified. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. And who becomes purified? Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha ya...
All the people who are less than the sudras. They are called pancamas, fifth grade. First grade, brahmana, second grade, ksatriya, third grade, vaisya, fourth grade, sudra, and all others -- fifth grade. They are called candalas. The candalas... The sweeper, the cobbler, and the... Low grade. Still, in India, these fifth-grade persons only, they eat meat, pigs, and sometimes cows. Fifth grade. Now it has become a practice. And he's a first-grade man. So just see. What was the business of the fifth-grade men, that has become the business of the so-called politicians. You see. So if you are ruled by the fifth-grade men, then how you can be happy? That is not possible. How there can be any social tranquillity? That is not possible. But even the fifth-grade man, he can be purified by Krsna consciousness movement. Therefore there is great need of this movement. Because at the present moment there is no first-class men, no first-grade men, no second-grade men. Maybe third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, like that. But they can be purified. That is... The only process is this Krsna consciousness movement. Anyone can be purified. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. They are called papa-yoni, born in low-grade, sinful family. Papa-yoni. Krsna says, ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah. Never mind what kind of papa-yoni. Mam hi partha vyapa... "If he takes shelter of Me, then..." That shelter can be taken because Krsna's representative is canvassing.
So there is no scarcity. Simply one has to take shelter of him. That's all. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is to create this canvasser. "Go everywhere." Amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "Go." He used to send Nityananda Prabhu, Haridasa Thakura and, to canvass, "Please chant Hare Krsna. Please chant Hare Krsna. Please surrender to Krsna." Also there was a crowd on the street. Nityananda Prabhu and Haridasa Thakura saw, and they asked, "What is this crowd?" "No, there are two brothers, Jagai and Madhai, very troublesome. They are drunkards, woman-hunters and meat-eaters, and they are, create always trouble." So Nityananda Prabhu immediately decided, "Why not deliver these persons first? Then My Lord's name will be glorified. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's name will be glorified."
This is the business of the disciple, how to glorify the spiritual master, parampara. I glorify my spiritual master, you glorify your spiritual master. If we simply do that, glorify, then Krsna is glorified. That was the decision of Nityananda Prabhu, that "Why not deliver these fallen souls first?" Because Caitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is to deliver the fallen souls. And in... And there is no scarcity of fallen souls in this age.
patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara,
mo sama patita prabhu na paibe ara
Narottama dasa Thakura is placing himself to the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that "My dear Lord, Your incarnation is to reclaim all these fallen souls. But I am the lowest of the fallen souls. So my claim is first. Kindly deliver me." Mo sama patita prabhu na paibe ara. "You are, Your determination is to deliver the fallen. So I am the first-class fallen. Please accept me."
So Kali-yuga, people are suffering. They're all fallens, all meat-eaters, all drunkards, all fifth-grade, sixth-grade men. They are puffed-up, but actually they are fifth-, sixth-and tenth-grade men, not even gentlemen. Therefore my Guru Maharaja used to say that "No gentleman can live here. The society is so polluted." And... But the, there is opportunity of serving Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Because the society is so fallen, therefore there is good opportunity to serve Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is to reclaim these fallen souls. So you have got the opportunity to serve Sri Caitan..., to please Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu because He wanted the fallen souls to be delivered. Krsna also wanted. Yada yada hi glanir bhavati bharata, dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata. Krsna comes... This is... God's business is going on like that. He's very anxious to reclaim all these rascals, rotting in this material world. Krsna is always anxious. He comes Himself. He comes as devotee. He comes..., sends His bona fide servant, bona fide son.
So this is Krsna's concern, to reclaim all these fallen souls. Therefore these are the opportunity. The yoginis, the yoginah, they are traveling all over the world. Only during the rainy season they were resting. Not that in other seasons eating and sleeping only. No. Because in the rainy season, to travel, there is inconvenience, therefore only four months. So during the four months, wherever they stay, simply being served by somebody as, like a boy servant, they become delivered. There was no question of preaching. Simply giving the opportunity to serve, the fallen souls become delivered. But you must be competent, not to take service for nothing. Then you'll go to hell. If you are actually in spiritual position, then by giving others little opportunity to serve you, he'll be delivered. No question of understanding the philosophy. A devotee must be so perfect. The system is, therefore, as soon as one sees a devotee, he falls down and takes the..., touches the feet. This is the system. Because by touching the feet... Mahat-pada-rajo-'bhisekam. If one is actually elevated to the spiritual life and he is, mean, takes, the people takes the opportunity of touching his lotus feet, then he becomes devotee. This is the process.
So here, how he became Narada Muni will be described. But here it is said... One thing is that when you are liberated... Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is said that tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. You become an associate of Narayana, Krsna, Visnu. Then you can remember your past lives. Remember your past lives. Just like you can remember your dreams, "I was dreaming like that." So this is all dream. Our, this life, at the present moment, because this body is false, so whatever we are acting, it is just like dream. Just like in dream at night we also work. So this is gross dream and that is subtle dream. But real life is spiritual life. But we foolish people, we are taking this life as permanent life, permanent settlement. It is not permanent settlement. Here is..., Narada Muni's saying, aham pura atita-bhave abhavam. Atita-bhave. This nature... Just like everything material... Bhutva bhutva praliyate. It appears for some time like bubbles in the ocean, few seconds. Again finished. The whole cosmic manifestation in which we are millions and millions of years, it is just like a bubble in the ocean. It is just like a bubble. Bhutva bhutva praliyate. It is said in the Bhagavad-gita.
So Narada Muni confirms that "Formerly, in the millennium..." That is Brahma's night. When Brahma's night comes, everything becomes devastated in water. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17]. First of all sahasra-yuga. One yuga means forty-three hundred thousands of years. Multiply it by one thousand. That is the period of manifestation. Now, what is the period? Forty-three lakhs of years, and multiply it by a thousand. How many years?
Devotee: Four billion.
Svarupa Damodara: Four point three billions.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Four point three billions.
Prabhupada: Four point three billions of years this thing will go on. And then again, for... This is ksana-pralaya. (?) Ksana-pralaya means when Brahma's day and night. But there is maha-pralaya. That will stay we do not know how many millions of years. So this is called millennium. So Narada Muni remembers this. Therefore he says, aham pura atita-bhave. This is called bhava, bhava. Bhava means to come into existence and again finish. Just like this bhava-samsara. It is called bhava-samsara. Bhava-samsara means I have got this body, and it will be finished. Again I shall get another body. Again it will be finished. So where is the science to understand these things? Who can explain? Where is the scientist? Pura atita-bhave? Is there any scientist? Is there? So what is their knowledge? Very meager knowledge. Two plus two. That's all. (laughs) And they're very much proud. Who can explain this? Pura atita-bhave. They do not know pura, they do not know atita, bhave. And abhavam. And "I existed. And I can remember." Is that perfection possible? But this is a fact. It is a fact. One may believe or not believe. They are making research institute, big, big... Yesterday Bon Maharaja was speaking... What is this research? Research here. And Narada Muni says that "In my previous life I was like this." Where is, where is the research?
So comparing this or comparing that, real research is here. If actually one is research scholar, "Now, what does this Bhagavata says? Pura atita-bhave. What is this?" Go on researching. That is required. That is real research work. So pura atita-bhave abhavam mune. Mune. He's addressing Vyasadeva, mune. "So I was the son of a maidservant, and I was engaged as the boy servant of yogis, and they were taking rest for four months. So I had the opportunity of serving them four months as their boy servant. Just to take, whatever they left, prasadam, I used to take. To wash their dishes or to wash their cloth. In this way he got the opportunity of serving perfect devotees for four months," and he became Narada. This is the importance. This is the importance, that simply by rendering... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. He became Narada means he was saved from the mahato bhayat, very great, fearful, dangerous position.
What is that fearful, dangerous position? They do not care. We are so fool that we are always on the brink of dangerous position... If we don't utilize this life properly, I may fall down again to the cycle of birth and death. Tatha dehantara-praptih. I shall get another body. There is no guarantee what kind of body I am going to get. I do not know. This foolish civilization is going. Save them by this Krsna consciousness. That is the best welfare activity.
Thank you very much. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.23 -- Vrndavana, August 4, 1974
August 4, 1974, Vrndavana
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pradyumna: "In the last millennium I was born as the son of a certain maidservant engaged in the service of brahmanas, who were following the principles of Vedanta. When they were living together during the four months of the rainy season, I was engaged in their personal service."
Prabhupada:
aham puratita-bhave 'bhavam mune
dasyas tu kasyascana veda-vadinam
nirupito balaka eva yoginam
susrusane pravrsi nirviviksatam
So this is the previous life history of Narada Muni. Narada Muni is explaining about his previous life to Vyasadeva. What was the previous life? The son of a maidservant. Maidservant means sudrani, not born of a brahmana family. Low class, maidservant. So from this position, Narada Muni became the greatest muni. He is describing his own life.
This is most important point, that even... First of all, he was a boy, three-, four-or five-years-old boy, no knowledge. And second point is that he was not born in a very high-grade family, aristocratic family, rich family. No. Maidservant's son. He did not give any information of his father also. Dasyah. Dasyah means there is no certainty who is father. Dasi. Dasi-putra. The... Formerly, big, big men, especially ksatriyas... Just like when Vasudeva was married with Devaki, so with Devaki many hundreds maidservants were given, with Vasudeva. That is the system, especially among the ksatriyas. When a ksatriya king is married, then along with the queen, many girlfriends of the queen, they are also taken away. This is also nice solution of social problem. Yes. Because female population is always greater than the male population. And... Therefore, the royal order, they would accept all these girls as associates. And sometimes they would be pregnant, and there will be son. They were called dasi-putra. They were not neglected. They were equally taken care of. But they were not heir to the throne. Only the married wife's son... Just like Vidura. Vidura's birth was like that. Vidura was not born of the queen, but maidservant. And Dhrtarastra, he took him as his brother. There was no discrimination, because one is born of the maidservant... No. Equal treatment. Only the restriction was that he would not inherit the throne. That was the system.
So here... Of course, it appears that Narada Muni was not of that kind of dasi-putra. Ordinary dasi-putra. Because the such dasi, or the maidservant, they do not come out for common service. They remain within the palace. So the point is that Narada Muni in his previous life was not very recognized family, neither brahmana nor nothing of the sort. Still, he became next life the Narada Muni. And what is the cause? What... The cause is, nirupito balaka eva yoginam: "I was appointed a boy servant of the devotees." The importance is that devotee is so important that if anyone renders a little service, then he becomes elevated to the spiritual life. What balaka... Balaka means there was a boy. "You, boy, bring me this," or "Do this. Just wash my cloth," or "Just set up my bedding." Like that. This much servant. Or "Wash this dish." So the devotional service is so powerful, by doing this... This will be described later on, that simply by doing this little service to the yoginam, he was so blessed that next life he became Narada. This point is very important point. That is being explained.
Another point is that when one is situated... Narada, after this life, he became situated in his spiritual life. In the spiritual life, therefore, he was able to go anywhere. Narada is traveling all over the universe. Not only within this material world, in the spiritual world also. He goes to see Narayana in the spiritual world. (aside:) This boy is sleeping. You can... You go back side. Those who will sleep can go back side. So this is one point, that in spiritual life one is free to move. There is no requisition of this airplane or... Even in this material world, those who are very highly elevated... That is called... They live in the Siddhaloka. There is a... That is described in the Second Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Siddhaloka.
Now, Siddhaloka, the inhabitants of the Siddhaloka, they don't require any plane. They can go... Because siddha means the inhabitants in that planet, they are all perfect in asta-siddhi-yoga. By yogic perfection, one can travel in the space. Just like Durvasa Muni. He traveled in the space. When there was chasing by the Sudarsana-cakra, he, by yogic power, he fled from one place to another, one place... He even entered the spiritual nature and saw Visnu personally. Still he was condemned. The Sudarsana-cakra was after him, chasing. He tried to insult Ambarisa Maharaja, Vaisnava. So... He wanted to kill. Not only insult, but he wanted to kill him. A demon was immediately produced by his hair. The yogis can do that. Anima... Anima, laghima, prapti-siddhi... Whatever they like... Immediately he brought one demon. So...
But Vaisnava, Maharaja Ambarisa, he was neither yogi, nor he could display any yogic perfection. But he was protected by Krsna, by the Sudarsana-cakra. This is Vaisnava's... Vaisnavas do not require to practice any yogic power to become materially powerful. He doesn't require. Simply his surrender to Krsna makes him all-powerful. This is the position of Vaisnava. Vaisnavas, they do not care for all these yogic powers. They depend on Krsna. And who can be... Krsna is the yogesvara, all, master of... Yatra krsno... yatra yogesvarah krsnah. So if one takes shelter of the Yogesvara, the master of all mystic power, why he should bother about this yogic power? A poor man may try to earn money by hard labor, but one who is a very, very rich man's son, why should he labor? The father's money is sufficient. Similarly, a devotee, a sincere devotee, he is under the protection of Krsna. And under the protection of Krsna means under the protection of all six kinds of opulences: riches, then strength, then reputation, wisdom, renunciation, beauty -- the six kinds of opulence. Krsna, under... Yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. This is stated here.
Because if you get somehow or other Krsna's favor, then there is no question of any more profit. Sufficient profit. You have got everything. Simply be sincere to the service of Krsna. Then you have got everything. There is no need of trying for this or that. Yasmin sthito gurunapi duhkhena na vicalyate. If one is situated under the shelter of Krsna's lotus feet, then gurunapi duhkhena na vicalyate. If there is dangerous type of inconvenience, then he's not disturbed. He knows... Just like Ambarisa Maharaja, Prahlada Maharaja... There are many instances. His father, Hiranyakasipu, was giving him trouble, chastising. He was patient, not disturbed. So be sure that if you are, if you have actually taken shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna, there is no question of danger. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. And Krsna confirms it: "Kaunteya, My dear Arjuna, you declare to the world that My devotee will be never vanquished by any enemy." That is Krsna's assurance. So why should we try to...
Of course, if Krsna's order is there, that is another thing. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was ordered by Krsna, "You fight." When Krsna says, "You fight," you must fight. Not that Krsna says, "You fight," and you say, "No, I have taken Your shelter. Why shall I fight?" No, that is not. That is disobedience. When Krsna says, "You fight," you must fight. When... Our life should be that whatever Krsna says... That is full surrender. Or His representative says, that is my life. Visvanatha Cakravarti has explained in the Bhagavad-gita.
vyavasayatmika buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-sakha hy anantas ca
buddhayo 'vyavasayinam
So our... We should be fixed up on the order of Krsna coming through the spiritual master. Then our life is successful. This is the secret of success in spiritual life. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. This is assured. We have to please the spiritual master. And if he's pleased, then Krsna is pleased. The argument that "We do not see Krsna personally. How we can satisfy Him?"... You satisfy your spiritual master, then Krsna is pleased. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasyaprasadat... **. And if you want to please directly Krsna, and show your spiritual master plantain, then na gatih kuto 'pi. It will be all useless. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi **.
So this Narada Muni's history is very interesting, that he was not educated, a boy, and not coming from cultured family -- maidservant's son. The only qualification was that nirupito balaka eva yoginam. He was engaged as a boy servant to the yogis. So how he got this opportunity? That is here: susrusane. Susrusane means in service; pravrsi, during the rainy season. Because saintly persons, mendicants, sannyasis, their business is to travel. Travel. When, of course, something established, then a sannyasi can rest, paramahamsa stage. When there are many disciples, workers, it is going on, then he can take rest. Otherwise it is the business of the sannyasi to travel.
So these yogis, or the sannyasis, they were traveling all over the world or all over the country or all over the province... Their business is traveling. But during rainy season, because it is very difficult... Formerly, there was no airplane. Or might be, but they were not traveling, walking. So for these four months, rainy season, they used to take shelter at a nice place in a pilgrimage and wait. Until the rainy season is finished, they would not go out. That is called caturmasya. This is the meaning of caturmasya. So Narada Muni got this opportunity. Now, you can calculate. This is knowledge. Then he had the opportunity to serve these yogis for four months only. Not more than that. And he became Narada. Just understand how much powerful is service to the Vaisnavas, devotees. And that is also confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:
kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah
Yad-apasrayasrayah means if anyone takes the shelter of the devotee, apasrayasrayah... A devotee takes the shelter of Krsna's lotus feet, and if somebody else takes the shelter of the lotus feet of the devotee, sudhyanti, becomes purified. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. And who becomes purified? Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha ya...
All the people who are less than the sudras. They are called pancamas, fifth grade. First grade, brahmana, second grade, ksatriya, third grade, vaisya, fourth grade, sudra, and all others -- fifth grade. They are called candalas. The candalas... The sweeper, the cobbler, and the... Low grade. Still, in India, these fifth-grade persons only, they eat meat, pigs, and sometimes cows. Fifth grade. Now it has become a practice. And he's a first-grade man. So just see. What was the business of the fifth-grade men, that has become the business of the so-called politicians. You see. So if you are ruled by the fifth-grade men, then how you can be happy? That is not possible. How there can be any social tranquillity? That is not possible. But even the fifth-grade man, he can be purified by Krsna consciousness movement. Therefore there is great need of this movement. Because at the present moment there is no first-class men, no first-grade men, no second-grade men. Maybe third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, like that. But they can be purified. That is... The only process is this Krsna consciousness movement. Anyone can be purified. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. They are called papa-yoni, born in low-grade, sinful family. Papa-yoni. Krsna says, ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah. Never mind what kind of papa-yoni. Mam hi partha vyapa... "If he takes shelter of Me, then..." That shelter can be taken because Krsna's representative is canvassing.
So there is no scarcity. Simply one has to take shelter of him. That's all. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is to create this canvasser. "Go everywhere." Amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "Go." He used to send Nityananda Prabhu, Haridasa Thakura and, to canvass, "Please chant Hare Krsna. Please chant Hare Krsna. Please surrender to Krsna." Also there was a crowd on the street. Nityananda Prabhu and Haridasa Thakura saw, and they asked, "What is this crowd?" "No, there are two brothers, Jagai and Madhai, very troublesome. They are drunkards, woman-hunters and meat-eaters, and they are, create always trouble." So Nityananda Prabhu immediately decided, "Why not deliver these persons first? Then My Lord's name will be glorified. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's name will be glorified."
This is the business of the disciple, how to glorify the spiritual master, parampara. I glorify my spiritual master, you glorify your spiritual master. If we simply do that, glorify, then Krsna is glorified. That was the decision of Nityananda Prabhu, that "Why not deliver these fallen souls first?" Because Caitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is to deliver the fallen souls. And in... And there is no scarcity of fallen souls in this age.
patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara,
mo sama patita prabhu na paibe ara
Narottama dasa Thakura is placing himself to the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that "My dear Lord, Your incarnation is to reclaim all these fallen souls. But I am the lowest of the fallen souls. So my claim is first. Kindly deliver me." Mo sama patita prabhu na paibe ara. "You are, Your determination is to deliver the fallen. So I am the first-class fallen. Please accept me."
So Kali-yuga, people are suffering. They're all fallens, all meat-eaters, all drunkards, all fifth-grade, sixth-grade men. They are puffed-up, but actually they are fifth-, sixth-and tenth-grade men, not even gentlemen. Therefore my Guru Maharaja used to say that "No gentleman can live here. The society is so polluted." And... But the, there is opportunity of serving Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Because the society is so fallen, therefore there is good opportunity to serve Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is to reclaim these fallen souls. So you have got the opportunity to serve Sri Caitan..., to please Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu because He wanted the fallen souls to be delivered. Krsna also wanted. Yada yada hi glanir bhavati bharata, dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata. Krsna comes... This is... God's business is going on like that. He's very anxious to reclaim all these rascals, rotting in this material world. Krsna is always anxious. He comes Himself. He comes as devotee. He comes..., sends His bona fide servant, bona fide son.
So this is Krsna's concern, to reclaim all these fallen souls. Therefore these are the opportunity. The yoginis, the yoginah, they are traveling all over the world. Only during the rainy season they were resting. Not that in other seasons eating and sleeping only. No. Because in the rainy season, to travel, there is inconvenience, therefore only four months. So during the four months, wherever they stay, simply being served by somebody as, like a boy servant, they become delivered. There was no question of preaching. Simply giving the opportunity to serve, the fallen souls become delivered. But you must be competent, not to take service for nothing. Then you'll go to hell. If you are actually in spiritual position, then by giving others little opportunity to serve you, he'll be delivered. No question of understanding the philosophy. A devotee must be so perfect. The system is, therefore, as soon as one sees a devotee, he falls down and takes the..., touches the feet. This is the system. Because by touching the feet... Mahat-pada-rajo-'bhisekam. If one is actually elevated to the spiritual life and he is, mean, takes, the people takes the opportunity of touching his lotus feet, then he becomes devotee. This is the process.
So here, how he became Narada Muni will be described. But here it is said... One thing is that when you are liberated... Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is said that tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. You become an associate of Narayana, Krsna, Visnu. Then you can remember your past lives. Remember your past lives. Just like you can remember your dreams, "I was dreaming like that." So this is all dream. Our, this life, at the present moment, because this body is false, so whatever we are acting, it is just like dream. Just like in dream at night we also work. So this is gross dream and that is subtle dream. But real life is spiritual life. But we foolish people, we are taking this life as permanent life, permanent settlement. It is not permanent settlement. Here is..., Narada Muni's saying, aham pura atita-bhave abhavam. Atita-bhave. This nature... Just like everything material... Bhutva bhutva praliyate. It appears for some time like bubbles in the ocean, few seconds. Again finished. The whole cosmic manifestation in which we are millions and millions of years, it is just like a bubble in the ocean. It is just like a bubble. Bhutva bhutva praliyate. It is said in the Bhagavad-gita.
So Narada Muni confirms that "Formerly, in the millennium..." That is Brahma's night. When Brahma's night comes, everything becomes devastated in water. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17]. First of all sahasra-yuga. One yuga means forty-three hundred thousands of years. Multiply it by one thousand. That is the period of manifestation. Now, what is the period? Forty-three lakhs of years, and multiply it by a thousand. How many years?
Devotee: Four billion.
Svarupa Damodara: Four point three billions.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Four point three billions.
Prabhupada: Four point three billions of years this thing will go on. And then again, for... This is ksana-pralaya. (?) Ksana-pralaya means when Brahma's day and night. But there is maha-pralaya. That will stay we do not know how many millions of years. So this is called millennium. So Narada Muni remembers this. Therefore he says, aham pura atita-bhave. This is called bhava, bhava. Bhava means to come into existence and again finish. Just like this bhava-samsara. It is called bhava-samsara. Bhava-samsara means I have got this body, and it will be finished. Again I shall get another body. Again it will be finished. So where is the science to understand these things? Who can explain? Where is the scientist? Pura atita-bhave? Is there any scientist? Is there? So what is their knowledge? Very meager knowledge. Two plus two. That's all. (laughs) And they're very much proud. Who can explain this? Pura atita-bhave. They do not know pura, they do not know atita, bhave. And abhavam. And "I existed. And I can remember." Is that perfection possible? But this is a fact. It is a fact. One may believe or not believe. They are making research institute, big, big... Yesterday Bon Maharaja was speaking... What is this research? Research here. And Narada Muni says that "In my previous life I was like this." Where is, where is the research?
So comparing this or comparing that, real research is here. If actually one is research scholar, "Now, what does this Bhagavata says? Pura atita-bhave. What is this?" Go on researching. That is required. That is real research work. So pura atita-bhave abhavam mune. Mune. He's addressing Vyasadeva, mune. "So I was the son of a maidservant, and I was engaged as the boy servant of yogis, and they were taking rest for four months. So I had the opportunity of serving them four months as their boy servant. Just to take, whatever they left, prasadam, I used to take. To wash their dishes or to wash their cloth. In this way he got the opportunity of serving perfect devotees for four months," and he became Narada. This is the importance. This is the importance, that simply by rendering... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. He became Narada means he was saved from the mahato bhayat, very great, fearful, dangerous position.
What is that fearful, dangerous position? They do not care. We are so fool that we are always on the brink of dangerous position... If we don't utilize this life properly, I may fall down again to the cycle of birth and death. Tatha dehantara-praptih. I shall get another body. There is no guarantee what kind of body I am going to get. I do not know. This foolish civilization is going. Save them by this Krsna consciousness. That is the best welfare activity.
Thank you very much. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.23 -- Vrndavana, August 4, 1974
Wednesday, December 21, 2011
"Show Your Knowledge's Origin"
Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.22
August 3, 1974, Vrndavana
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pradyumna: Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."
Devotee: Would you like the stand to be lower?
Prabhupada: No.
idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va
svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh
avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito
yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam
[SB 1.5.22]
So this is our mission, that find out the original cause. That is scientific research. All the scientists, they are trying to find out the original cause. That is advancement of education. They are analyzing one after another. But till now, they could not find it out. Big, big scientists have tried. But they could not... Only theory: "This is the original cause. This is the original cause."
But we do not depend on the theories. We depend on the Vedic conclusion. We do not require to make any research. Just like ordinarily we say there are 900,000 forms of body in the water. We get it from Vedic knowledge. Jalaja nava-laksani. Now, the biologists, let them confirm it. Or deny it. Because... They cannot confirm it because their knowledge is experimental. Unless they find it actually, by actual experience, that there are so many living forms within the water, they cannot say yes. Neither they are able to find it out. Is it not the position? First of all, if we say to the biologists that "There are 900,000 different forms of life or species within the water," they will say, "How it is you are affirming in, so positively, without experiment, without research?" They'll say. Then we'll ask, "Then you say." That they cannot say. This is their position. They'll say, "In future..." Future, there is no question. You do not know now. Admit this. So this is their position. Therefore this experimental knowledge is always imperfect. Always imperfect. It cannot be perfect. Because our experience, our power of perception, advancement of knowledge, they are imperfect. They are deficiency.
Therefore, for perfect knowledge, you have to approach the perfect. We accept Lord Krsna as the perfect, and His bona fide representative is also perfect. How he is perfect? Krsna may be perfect, one may admit, but how his bona fide representative is also perfect? So the answer is the bona fide representative of Krsna, he does not say anything beyond Krsna. That is perfect. He may be imperfect. It doesn't matter. But he is receiving knowledge from the perfect, and he's simply repeating that knowledge. That is the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Yare dekha tare kaha, kaha krsna-katha. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-katha.
yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna'-upadesa
amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]
You don't speak your upadesa, your instruction. That is nonsense. What you are? That is the defect of the modern civilization. They simply want to instruct by his experience. But what is your experience? They're all imperfect. But they are persisting, "No, we cannot accept any knowledge without experiment." Is it not the position. Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Experiments.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: They're after.
Prabhupada: Now, that the scientists will say, "Why we shall accept Krsna's version as perfect?" Do they not say like that?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, they ask.
Prabhupada: But they cannot give any perfect information, their theories. So our process is to take Krsna... Not only our, this is the parampara system. All the acaryas -- Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya -- they take Krsna's version as perfect. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, therefore, that "You do not instruct anything which is manufactured by you. Do not instruct all these..." Because you are imperfect. You have manufactured all your theories. They are imperfect. Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore says, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is perfection. If you say Krsna's upadesa, instruction, then it is perfect. And if you say your experimental instruction, that is imperfect.
Here it is said that idam hi pumsas tapasah... Every knowledge... Just like here is our Dr. Svarupa Damodara. He has got the doctorate title. We have seen your book. It is a learned scholarship, research work. So that is nice. But he has admitted the original cause is Krsna. So we are asking everyone that "Whatever knowledge you have got..." It doesn't matter whether you are a chemist or physicist or an engineer or medical man... Any... There are so many. Lawyer, politician. So many departmental knowledge. So one becomes doctor and expert by high research work. For the last... How many years you were in USA?
Svarupa Damodara: I think five years.
Prabhupada: Five years. After five years hard work and placing the theses among the learned scholars, they admitted, "Yes, it is very nice research work." Now they have offered him a Ph.D. So it is tapasya. Tapasya. Without tapasya, you cannot get any credit. That is not possible. If one wants to get credit immediately, without tapasya, that is bogus. Therefore it is said, tapasah, and srutasya. Srutasya means hearing from the authorities. By attending lectures of the professors, of the scientific scholars, hearing. Or Vedic knowledge.
So anyway, everyone is getting knowledge, perfection, by tapasya, by austerity, by learned scholarship. So here it is said that, that these things are required for describing Krsna. These things are required for describing Krsna. Not only on the theory, but actually to prove that this knowledge is there, Krsna is full of all opulences, and... It is said... Jnana, jnana-vairagyayos caiva sannam bhaga itingana. Eh? What is the beginning? Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasah sriyah. Krsna means He's the full opulent Personality of Godhead with all riches, all reputation, all beauty, all knowledge. That you have to prove. Any department of knowledge, you have to prove that it..., this knowledge is coming from Krsna. Sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1].
isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]
That is Krsna consciousness. (aside:) Let him sit down properly. That is scholarship. You make research work, but... In the sastra it is said that Krsna is the original person of this departmental knowledge. Suppose you are a lawyer. So Krsna gives the law. This is research work. Just actually Krsna gives. What is Krsna gives? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is law. The first giver of law is Krsna, that "You give up all nonsense. Surrender unto Me." This is law. Then you'll understand everything. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Religion means the law given by Krsna, or God. That is religion. Otherwise, it is not religion. That is cheating. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. This is cheating religion. If you do not follow Krsna, that is cheating.
"Krsna" means... When I say "Krsna," Krsna means God. God is one. That is Krsna. Others, they admit that God is one. But they do not know who is that one God. That is their defect. That is the difference between us and others. They do not know... Just like if I say that "Have you got any father?" So he'll say, "Yes, I have got my father." "Now, who is your father?" "I do not know." That's not a very good credit. Because without father, mother, there is no existence. So everyone knows I have got a father. But who is my father, that I do not know. At least, in India, one who cannot say his father's name, immediately he becomes degraded. Just like the Jabala Satyakama. Jabala Satyakama, he, he was... He went to Gautama Muni, "Please initiate me." And according to Vedic conclu..., initiation is meant for the brahmana. Brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya. Not for the sudras. Sudras are not initiated. And in the Kali-yuga, because everyone is a sudra, therefore he's first of all given training to become a brahmana. Then the sacred thread is offered. This is the process. Because actually, initiation cannot be given to anyone except a brahmana. So kalau sudra-sambhavah: "In the Kali-yuga, everyone is sudra." That is to be accepted without any disagreement. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. Because they have no samskara. Asamskrtah kriya-hina mlecchah. One who is not undergone the reformatory processes, garbhadhana-samskara, upanayana-samskara... There are ten kinds of samskaras, reformatory. One who has not gone, or one who is not permitted to undergo the samskara, he's sudra. Samskarad bhaved dvijah. Everyone is born sudra. By reformatory method, he becomes twice-born -- by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge is the mother, and spiritual master is the father.
In this way, the Jabala Upanisad... He was asked by his, by Gautama Muni, "Who is your father?" So he said that "I do not know." "Then go to your mother. Ask her." The mother could not say, that "I do not know who is your father. I have connection with so many men." So he came back to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know." She said that she had many connections, ‘I do not who is particularly your father.' " But Gautama Muni immediately accepted him, "Yes, you are brahmana, because you are truthful. Nobody dares to say like that, that ‘I do not know my father's name. My mother said that she had many connections.' " Because he was truthful, satyam samo damas titiksa, so by the quality, he was accepted immediately, and he was initiated, that "You have the qualities of brahmana." A brahmana will speak truth, even to his enemy. If the enemy comes, if a rogue comes, "How much money you have got in your box?" a brahmana will say, "Sir, I have got one hundred dollars." (laughs) Just like the other day, in the Customs examination in Bombay, so our Brahmananda Maharaja was asked, "What is the value?" "No, I have purchased it." "What is the value?" "Two hundred dollars." He did not say that "I am using it for long time." No. "It is new. I have purchased." That's all right. Yes. But Kali-yuga is so implicated that sometimes we have to speak the untruth. But it is the business of the brahmana to speak the truth. No untruth.
So, so in this way our proposition is that if we want perfection, then in whatever position we are, either I am a brahmana, or I am a ksatriya, or I am a vaisya, or I am a sudra -- it doesn't matter, if we simply take this vow, that Krsna is the original cause of everything... A sudra is also a, the original cause is Krsna. Krsna says in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that He is the cause of the sudras. You should not hate anyone, because everyone is born of Krsna. Aham bija-pradah pita. Krsna says. Sarva-yonisu. It doesn't matter in what form the living entity is there, but Krsna claims that He is the father, He is the father. So either brahmana or ksatriya or vaisya or sudra or mleccha, yavana, or white, black, European, American -- anyone -- he should know that the original cause is Krsna. This is perfection of life.
idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va
svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh
avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito
yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam
[SB 1.5.22]
So if everyone says that "Original cause of my existence is Krsna," this is Krsna consciousness. It doesn't matter. Not that a brahmana... Brahmana is the mouth of Krsna, and ksatriya is the arm of Krsna, and vaisya is the belly of Krsna, and sudra is the leg of Krsna. But do we distinguish that "Here is Krsna's mouth, or head; all the flowers should be offered here, not to the leg"? Do we make any such distinction? When we worship Krsna, rather, our first duty is to offer to the lotus feet of Krsna. And Krsna says that sudra, in Bhagavata says, sudra is the leg. So there may be distinction of profession, occupation, caste, creed, color... It doesn't matter. But if everyone tries to become Krsna conscious, that "The original cause of my existence is Krsna," then there is life... Life is perfect. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. Not blindly, but by research work, that how the original cause is Krsna? Krsna says, aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the original cause of everything. Everything emanates from Me." How can I deny that Krsna is not cause? This is Krsna consciousness. Therefore, those who are advanced devotee, he does not see anything else but Krsna. Because Krsna is the cause of everything. That is required. Therefore he's Krsna consciousness.
So we should not take anything neglectfully. Neither we should be careless to take care of Krsna's property, Krsna's living being, Krsna's house, Krsna's temple, Krsna's business, Krsna's... Everything Krsna's. Krsna. Isavasyam idam sarvam yat kinca jagatyam jagat. If we think like that, then that is perfect Krsna consciousness. Man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah. We may think, see varieties of things. It doesn't matter. But if we know that the original cause of this thing is Krsna, that is perfection. We are seeing this table. It is wood. But if we know... It is a fact. You know or not know, that doesn't matter. The original cause is Krsna. The microphone, the original cause is Krsna. These karatalas, the original cause is Krsna. This pitcher, original cause is Krsna. Everything. That is Krsna consciousness. And it is fact. Not that we are imagining. Just like... Take, for example, these material things. Material things, this table. It is... How it is caused by Krsna? Krsna says, bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca. Bhumi, this earth... Bhinna prakrtir me astadha: "That is My energy." So, so bhumi, the earth, is the cause of the tree, wood, and the wood is the cause of this table. Therefore, originally, Krsna is the cause of the table. There is no doubt about it. Anything you take. Either you take this wood or you take this water or this ether or chemical, the original cause is Krsna.
Now, to be ascertained, education, that why it is called Krsna is the origin. That is research work. How it has been...? Just like I give you the hint of research work that, Krsna says that "The earth is my energy, separated energy." And earth is the cause of the wood. And wood is the cause of the fire. Fire is the cause of melting... So many, so many. You can go. So idam hi pumsas tapasah...kavibhir nirupitah. Describe the attributes of Krsna. You can write. Just like you can write volumes of books on this table. If you are intelligent enough, you can make research work on the table. But in that research work, conclude that Krsna is the origin. A carpenter can, he can write about Krsna, if he's thoughtful. Anyone. Therefore it is said, yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam. Whatever your profession is there, you know that the original cause is Krsna. Now make research work and find out how Krsna is the original cause. That is education. That is wanted. Am I right?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. So everyone can write books. Everyone wants to write books, wants to show some scholarship. Do it. But the conclusion should be that "Here is the original cause." And it is already said in the sastra... Krsna personally says that
aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
[Bg. 10.8]
This is budhah. Those who are actually educated, they're called budhah, in full knowledge.
So there are departmental knowledge. So by research work, when one understands that Krsna is the original cause of everything, then that is siddhanta. Therefore Caitanya-caritamrta karaca says that
siddhanta baliya citte na kara alasa
iha ha-ite krsne lage sudrdha manasa
Siddhanta, conclusion, try to study. Krsna says, "I am the origin of everything." So whatever subject matter you have got, you study. Then when you come to this conclusion, "Yes, actually Krsna is the original cause," then your devotion of Krsna immediately increases. If you accept blindly Krsna, that is one thing, another one thing. And if you study, make research work, and find out Krsna is the original cause, then your love for Krsna will increase. So this is required. This is required.
So this verse is very important thing. And everyone should make research work. But a devotee, one who has concluded, one who has perfectly known that Krsna is the original cause of everything, he hasn't got to do anything. His business is finished. He doesn't require any more to go, undergo severe austerities to find out whether Krsna is cause or not cause. Because he has already known. He has already known. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. No more tapasya. Chant Hare Krsna. But if you have got doubt, make research work. You'll have to come to the conclusion. But if you have concluded it, "Yes, Krsna is the original cause of everything," then your business is finished. Chant Hare Krsna. But if you have got doubt, then do it. That is your business. Don't be blind. Either you accept here the words of Krsna... Krsna says, "I am the original cause of everything." That's all right. If you believe that "Krsna says," it is all right. If you do not believe, then make the research and find out. That is perfection. In both ways you'll have to come to the...
Because the fact is fact. Either... Suppose somebody says, "Don't touch fire. It will burn your hand." If you accept it, your father's advice or your teacher's advice, "Don't touch fire," it is as good. And if you want to make research, "No, why shall I believe my father, my teacher. Let me experiment, touch," the result will be the same. Result will be the same. But if you want to make experiment, do it. But come to this conclusion, that Krsna is the original cause of everything. Then your life is perfect.
Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Pusta-krsna(?): ...translation... [break] ...Bhagavad-gita... [break]
Dayananda: ...Prabhupada...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Dayananda: What is that... [break]
Prabhupada: ...nice. I don't exactly... We have heard from authorities. There is no question of inquiring. What is the... Even if you don't quote, you can assert firmly that everyone is a sudra. How? Now, guna-karma-vibhagasah. Bhagavad-gita says this classification is made, guna-karma. So what is the karma at the present moment? They're seeking service. The so-called education means seeking service, master. Paricaryatmakam karma sudrasyapi svabhava-jam. This is sastra. Anyone who is attached to give service to others or, without giving service to others, he cannot live, that is, he's sudra. He has no independent existence. Just like I was showing, the dog. Unemployed. Lean and thin and... Because he has no master. The same dog, when he has got a master, he'll be stout and strong, and he'll, as soon as you... "Owf! Owf! Bow! (laughter) I have got my master." So this is sudra. Sudra is compared with the dog. A dog is never happy without a master. Then it is a street dog. That is the difference between household dog and a street dog. So in this age practically you see, unless there is employment, he's a street dog. That is the proof that everyone is a sudra. That is the proof.
Brahmananda: Brahmana is not to accept any employment.
Prabhupada: No. He'll die of starvation. He'll not accept any employment. That is brahmana. Ksatriya also that, and vaisya also. Only sudra. A vaisya will find out some business. He'll find out some business. So there is a practical story. One Mr. Nandi, long, long ago, in the Calcutta, he went to some friend that, "If you can give me a little capital, I can start some business." So he said, "You are vaisya? Mercantile?" "Yes." "Oh, you are asking money from me? Money's on the street. You can find out." So he said, "I don't find." "You don't find? What is that?" "That, that is a dead mouse." "That is your capital." Just see.
So in those days plague in Calcutta, plague was going on. So municipal declaration was any dead mouse brought to the municipal office, he'll be paid two annas. So he took that dead body of the mouse and took to the municipal office. He was paid two annas. So he purchased some rotten betel nuts with two annas, and washed it and sold it at four annas, or five annas. In this way, again, again, again, that man became so rich man. One of their family members was our Godbrother. Nandi family. That Nandi family still, they have got four hundred, five hundred men to eat daily. A big, aristocratic family. And their family's regulation is as soon as one son or daughter is born, five thousand rupees deposited in the bank, and at the time of his marriage, that five thousand rupees with interest, he can take it. Otherwise there is no more share in the capital. And everyone who lives in the family, he gets eating and shelter. This is their... But the original, I mean to say, establisher of this family, Nandi, he started his business with a red, a dead rat, or mouse.
That is actually fact, actually fact, that if one wants to live independently... In Calcutta I have seen. Even poor class vaisyas, and in the morning they'll take some dal, bag of dal, and go door to door. Dal is required everywhere. So in morning he makes dal business, and in evening he takes one canister of kerosene oil. So in the evening everyone will require. Still you'll find in India, they... Nobody was seeking for employment. A little, whatever he has got, selling some ground nuts or that peanuts. Something he's doing. After all, Krsna is giving maintenance to everyone. It is a mistake to think that "This man is giving me maintenance." No. Sastra says, eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman. It is confidence in Krsna, that "Krsna has given me life, Krsna has sent me here. So He'll give me my maintenance. So according to my capacity, let me do something, and through that source, Krsna's maintenance will come." Just like we are maintaining so many people in the Krsna consciousness movement. So what business we are doing? But we are confident that Krsna will send us our maintenance. That confidence required. A sudra means he becomes disturbed. He becomes disturbed. "Oh, I have no employment. How shall I eat? Where shall I go? Where shall I live?" He has no faith in Krsna. The brahmana has got full faith. The ksatriya has got little less faith, the vaisya, little less faith, and the sudra has no faith. This is the difference.
So your question was that how we can know a sudra? That because everyone is now faithless and everyone is seeking after employment. Therefore... We may discuss in so many ways. Because people have become sudra, therefore the capitalists are exploiting them. If everyone denies to be, serve, then these so-called industries will fail. Immediately. That is Gandhi's proposal. "Noncooperate with the British government, and it will wind up." And actually so happened. Because people are now sudras, they depend for their bread to others, the others exploit them: "Come here. You work and I shall give you bread." They do not believe any more, "O God, give us our daily bread." They think that "This, our master give us daily bread." That is sudra. Sudra means one who is dependent on others. Paricaryatmakam karyam sudra-karma svabhava-jam. This is the description, definition of sudra. And vaisya: krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. The vaisya is doing the krsi, agriculture. Why he should depend on...? Take some land from the government. You produce your food. Where is the difficulty? Keep some cows. You get milk. Vaisya-karma svabhava... Go-raksya. If you have got excess, then make trade. Why you should depend on others?
But they do not know. They want that "I shall go at ten o'clock in the office, and I shall do nothing. Simply I shall take the pen and make like this and take my salary." That's all. Cheating. This is going on. Therefore the whole system is polluted. Nobody's doing his duty. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma... [Bg. 4.13]. According to one's quality, one must work. But nobody wants to work. So therefore they are sudras. They are working, but at the care of somebody else. Not independently. Now the school, college, the teacher is also depending on salary. So they are sudras. So what teaching they will give? Teaching is the business of the brahmana. No salary. Formerly, all the brahmanas, they used to have that... It is called tola, catuspathi. Catuspathi. Brahmana, he'll sit down anywhere and invite that "If you like, you can come and take some teachings from me."
Brahmananda: Caitanya Mahaprabhu did that.
Prabhupada: Yes. So still in villages you'll find, the brahmana is sitting somewhere, and the small children are coming, and they're bringing some presentation. Somebody's bringing rice, somebody ... And brahmana was satisfied, satisfied. "Whatever Krsna sends, that's all right." This is brahminical qualification. He doesn't want more. There was a brahmana teacher in Krsnanagara. So the zamindar of Krsna..., Raja-krsna-candra, he went that "Brahmana, what can I help you?" "No, I don't want your help." "No, you are... Your house is not very good, and your..." "No, I am quite satisfied." "How you are pulling on?" "No, I have got my students. They bring some rice. And here is a tamarind tree. My wife collects some leaves and boils it, and that becomes nice soup. And these boys bring some rice. I am quite satisfied."
[break] "...as your production is there, give me twenty-five percent. I'll give you protection." That is ksatriya business. Brahmana's business, teaching. And vaisya: till the field, agriculture, get your food. Now, where is dependence? Only a sudra, he cannot take up all these things. "Give me some service, sir. Give me some service." In the modern education, they... The more and more industries increasing, there sudras are being trained up. Technology. Technology means he must get some service. Otherwise, useless. Simple life, teaching, brahmana; and ksatriya, give protection; and vaisya, till the ground. This is... Where is the question of scarcity? The scarcity is that nobody's doing his real duty. Guna-karma-vibhagasah. And people are exploiting. There is competition, dissatisfaction, fight. So many things, sinful activities. The whole society is polluted. Actually, the whole human society is now conducted by the sudras. But sudras cannot run on government. That is not possible. Because that sudra, your Nixon, is a sudra, he is exalted post, therefore everything is not in order.
Brahmananda: Ksatriyas should run the government?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Brahmananda: And the brahmanas should give advice.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Vedic system. The brahmanas would never take part in administration. They would give advice according to sastra.
Svarupa Damodara: I have a comment on that research.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Svarupa Damodara: You said that researches are all right, but there has to be a standard.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: It has to be standardized.
Prabhupada: Yes. Research.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. So that is the business of the research scholar, how to make it standardized. Everything is standardized. Just like you have found the molecules, protons, and... They are working in a standardized way. They are not working whimsically there. There is standard process.
Svarupa Damodara: And what is that standard? What is that standard of research?
Prabhupada: The standard is already there. Is not that?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, but...
Prabhupada: Standard is already there. Krsna has already made the standard. Our intelligence is to know how the standard has come.
Svarupa Damodara: So we say that brahma-jijnasa is a standard. Is that, is that...? Is that okay?
Prabhupada: Brahma-jijnasa means... Anything you take, it is working in a standard way. Just like the sun is rising. So the brahma-jijnasa means how the sun is rising exactly in time? Who has made this rule? And in astronomy there is very fine calculation, one ten-thousandth part of a minute or something like that? I have heard from you scientists. They, they make calculation of the movement of the sun, that. In astrology also, the moment is calculated like that. If the exact moment is there, by mathematical calculation, he can give you the exact history of your whole life. This is standard, all standard. Niyamitah. Yasyajnaya bhramati kala-cakrah. There is, Brahma-samhita says:
yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam
raja samasta-sura-murtir asesa-tejah
yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
How exactly the sun and the moon and the planets, they are rotating? How? Yasyajnaya, by whose order? That Govinda, adi-purusa, I offer my respectful... Everywhere you'll find the research.
Svarupa Damodara: But the difference between the transcendentalists and the scientists is that they do not know the standard of research.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore we say they are fools. Why do we say mudhah? Because they do not know. And our business is easy. We take Vedic version, Krsna's version, Brahma's version, Vyasadeva's version, and accept. That's all. Which one is easiest? Our business is very simple. You ask your father... A child asks his father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "This is microphone, my dear child." And he will, "Mother, this is microphone." So when he says this "Mother, this is microphone," is he correct or not?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, he is.
Prabhupada: He's correct. He may be child. But because he has accepted the words of his father, the statement is correct. So our process is that. Take the version of the authority, Krsna, and you repeat it. Your version is perfect. This is our policy. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, "You rascal scholar, philosopher, scientist, don't manufacture anything. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. You become master." Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You become master. You can teach others. A spiritual master. That's all. And if, whatever little success I have got -- only for this reason. I have never said anything which is not spoken by Krsna. I never said, "In my opinion." I never said. You are so many students. I never said that to you. What is my opinion? One should know, "What is the value of my opinion? I am imperfect being." This is called trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. If one thinks, "Oh, I am big scholar. I am this. I am that," you are rascal. You have to simply carry the message of Krsna. But for your understanding you can make research work.
Svarupa Damodara: That is the secret.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the secret.
yasya deve para bhaktir
yatha deve tatha gurau
tasyaite kathita hy arthah
prakasante mahatmanah
[SU 6.23]
If one has got unflinching faith in Krsna and his representative, guru, then all the knowledge will be revealed to him automatically. Just like yourself. You are a big scientist. You have talked with me, you have studied with me, and you have examined me in so many ways. And I have also spoken whatever I had knowledge. Unless you are convinced, how you can say that "You are my spiritual master"? So what is the secret? I am not a scientist. I am not M.A., C.A How do you agree to accept me as spiritual master? Because I stick to this principle, Krsna and guru, that's all. This is the secret of guru.
So today is Baladeva avirbhava. Baladeva, in the strength. Nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah. You cannot understand, realize yourself without the help of Baladeva. Therefore in the Vedic literatures: nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah. You cannot become self-realized without the help of, without the mercy of Baladeva. Now, our Vivekananda Swami, he interpreted that "Unless you become stout and strong like the bulls and the buffalo, you cannot realize self." He interpreted like that. So he engaged people to make gymnastics, exercise. "You become very stout and strong, eat meat, and..." This is going on. This philosophy is going on. Bala-hinena... "Unless you become as strong as a tiger, you cannot realize yourself." This interpretation is going on. Bala-hinena labhyah. Therefore they are... Always they put this argument, that "Our countrymen is suffering. There is no food. First of all we must give them food, make them strong, stout. Then we shall talk about Krsna consciousness." Do they not say like that?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is another nonsense. Bala-hinena does not mean this physical strength. Bala-hin... Bala, bala means spiritual strength, Baladeva. Baladeva is spiritual strength. Nityananda. Balarama haila nitai.
Brahmananda: Hina, hina. Bala-hina?
Prabhupada: Hina means without. And bala means strength. So sastra says, nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah: "One who is less strong, or one who has no support of the strength, then he cannot make any progress in spiritual self-realization." This is the Vedic injunction. So they interpret that unless you become physically strong, you cannot make any spiritual advancement. So...? But in the Western countries we have seen, so many people physically very strong, stout and strong. Practically everyone. But what is their self..., advancement in self-realization? So these things are going on. So bala means spiritual strength, not material strength. Nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah. That means one must be spiritually strong. And that spiritually strong means to have good faith in Krsna and guru. That is spiritual strength. Therefore Baladeva means guru, spiritual strength. Balarama haila nitai. Nitaiyer karuna habe... What is that song? Nitaiyer karuna habe vraje radha-krsna pabe. He is... "If there is mercy of Nitai, then..." That Visansena(?), call him. (calls out to someone who is apparently leaving) Serji, aiye na? (Hindi)
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Aiye, saheb.
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Aiye.
Indian: (Hindi) What is... What shall I do, coming?
Prabhupada: Sit down. You can make some space. Aiye.
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: [break] ...the verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam,
idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va
svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh
avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito
yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam
[SB 1.5.22]
That everyone is situated in some business, occupation. So it is the duty of the person, never mind in whatever occupation he is engaged, uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam, to glorify the Supreme Lord. It doesn't matter whether he is a medical man or he is an engineer or a lawyer, or whatever he may be, politician... His only business is by his occupational duties to glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the basic principle of Krsna consciousness movement. We do not advise that you change your place. There is no need of changing place. Sthane sthitah. This is the Brahma's version. Sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. You remain your, in your occupation, your position, but kindly hear. Therefore we have got so many sastras, Vedic... Therefore the Vedic literature is known as sruti. One has to hear. But that education is lacking. Nobody is hearing the Vedic literatures. They are hearing so many other things, but not... Therefore Bhagavata says, srotavyadini rajendra nrnam santi sahasrasah. Srotavyadini. The business is to hear.
But,
srotavyadini rajendra
nrnam santi sahasrasah
apasyatam atma-tattvam
grhesu grha-medhinam
[SB 2.1.2]
Grhesu. We are now compact in our home. You take universal home or your house home or this body home, we are within. So grhesu grha-medhinam. Because we have taken that the home business is everything. Grhesu grha-medhinam. And who has taken like this? Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2], one who cannot see the, "What is the value of my existence," atma-tattvam. So for them, srotavyadini rajendra nrnam santi sahasrasah [SB 2.1.2], they have got many things to hear. Here, of course, in India, we have got newspaper, four pages, five pages, but in the foreign countries, especially in America, they'll present newspaper, so big. Therefore there is paper scarcity. You see? Unnecessarily printing so much, huge quantity of newspapers. And people... Sometimes they do not touch it. The newspaper man throws in everyone's bungalow, and it is lying for three days. So who is going to read? But they are making their business because they get advertisement. In the... Many news. So they have got to hear or understand so many news, but not this Bhagavatam. They'll devote the whole day for reading this newspaper or some fiction or some novels, for this and that. Some political talks and... But they have no time to hear Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. Apasyatam atma... Because they have no, no interest in self-realization. There is no interest. People have lost all interest. This is the position. Therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is essential at the present moment.
Now, these European and Americans, they have enough heard about all these nonsense. Therefore they are anxious to hear about self-realization.
srotavyadini rajendra
nrnam santi sahasrasah
apasyatam atma-tattvam
grhesu grha-medhinam
[SB 2.1.2]
(Hindi) He was punishable. It was the duty of the government to see that "You are posing yourself as brahmana. Whether you are doing the duty of a brahmana?" If he's not doing, then he was punished. Therefore nobody was unemployed. A brahmana is doing his duty, ksatriya's doing his duty, vaisya his duty. We get this information from Maharaja Prthu's kingdom. He, he was very strict, that whether one is doing his duty. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. If the brahmana is doing his duty, the ksatriya is doing his duty, and vaisya is doing his duty, then where is the unemployment? And it is the duty of the government to see that everyone is doing his duty.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, no. Society means this combination of all these men. So if everyone is doing his duty, then it is quite all right. That is perfect society. Society means some combination of men. So if every man perfectly does his duty, then there is no question of imperfect...
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty. That I was explaining, that at the present moment mostly persons, they are sudras. Just like in your body there are four divisions. Your head division, your arm division, your belly division, and your leg division. And if you cut off everything, simply you keep the legs, then what will be done? So at the present moment there is no brahmana, no ksatriya. Maybe some vaisyas only. Only sudras. Therefore there is chaos. If the division is made, kept, as it is advised in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13], according to guna and karma, then the society is maintained very nicely, properly. If your head is working nicely, if your arms are working nicely, if your stomach is working nicely, leg is working..., then you are fit. But if you have got only legs, and head, there is no head, there is no arm, then what is the...? Dead society.
So we are giving education at the present moment to become sudras. Paricaryatmakam karyam sudra-karma svabhava-jam. To serve others. A brahmana will not serve anyone else. A ksatriya will not serve anyone else. A vaisya will not serve anyone else. Only the sudras. So at the present moment we are giving sudra education. Everyone is taking one application: "Give me some service." "No vacancy, sir." Therefore it is said, kalau sudra-sambhavah. In the Kali-yuga everyone is sudra. And how you can have good government by the sudras? Ksatriya required. Just like Maharaja Pariksit. He was touring. As soon as he saw one man is killing cow, "Who are you, rascal, killing cow in my kingdom?" Ksatriya. Give protection. Even to the cows. Praja means one who has taken birth in that land. Why he should not be given protection? But because they are sudras, they do not know what is the ksatriya's duty, what is the government's duty. This is the position. Am I right or wrong?
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, I am speaking according to our sastras.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, no. In those days the whole planet was Bharatavarsa. Therefore it is called Mahabharata.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: That was not small. That was very big. Pariksit Maharaja was going on tour because he was the emperor of the whole planet.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Now it is divided.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, that was another thing. That was for, fight for the right cause. Not for... It may be politically like that, but the division was there, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. And the last, Krsna's compromising plan was that "After all, they are ksatriyas, these five brothers. They cannot take the business of a vaisya or brahmana. So give them five villages so that they may be satisfied, ruling over these..." "No, not even land holding the upper portion of the needle." Then there was fight. Then there was fight.
So as far as possible... Of course, our, this movement is creating brahmanas. People now require a brahmana, the head. Of course, we are not manufacturing anything. Everything is there. Everything is there in the sastra. We do not invent anything. Yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah. The, we, are trying to follow as far as possible, and we are teaching that, that whatever is there...
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: You are coming from Burdow?(?)
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Near Lucknow?
Indian: No.
Indian: Bareilly.
Prabhupada: Bareilly. Oh.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Oh. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.22 -- Vrndavana, August 3, 1974
August 3, 1974, Vrndavana
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pradyumna: Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."
Devotee: Would you like the stand to be lower?
Prabhupada: No.
idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va
svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh
avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito
yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam
[SB 1.5.22]
So this is our mission, that find out the original cause. That is scientific research. All the scientists, they are trying to find out the original cause. That is advancement of education. They are analyzing one after another. But till now, they could not find it out. Big, big scientists have tried. But they could not... Only theory: "This is the original cause. This is the original cause."
But we do not depend on the theories. We depend on the Vedic conclusion. We do not require to make any research. Just like ordinarily we say there are 900,000 forms of body in the water. We get it from Vedic knowledge. Jalaja nava-laksani. Now, the biologists, let them confirm it. Or deny it. Because... They cannot confirm it because their knowledge is experimental. Unless they find it actually, by actual experience, that there are so many living forms within the water, they cannot say yes. Neither they are able to find it out. Is it not the position? First of all, if we say to the biologists that "There are 900,000 different forms of life or species within the water," they will say, "How it is you are affirming in, so positively, without experiment, without research?" They'll say. Then we'll ask, "Then you say." That they cannot say. This is their position. They'll say, "In future..." Future, there is no question. You do not know now. Admit this. So this is their position. Therefore this experimental knowledge is always imperfect. Always imperfect. It cannot be perfect. Because our experience, our power of perception, advancement of knowledge, they are imperfect. They are deficiency.
Therefore, for perfect knowledge, you have to approach the perfect. We accept Lord Krsna as the perfect, and His bona fide representative is also perfect. How he is perfect? Krsna may be perfect, one may admit, but how his bona fide representative is also perfect? So the answer is the bona fide representative of Krsna, he does not say anything beyond Krsna. That is perfect. He may be imperfect. It doesn't matter. But he is receiving knowledge from the perfect, and he's simply repeating that knowledge. That is the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Yare dekha tare kaha, kaha krsna-katha. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-katha.
yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna'-upadesa
amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]
You don't speak your upadesa, your instruction. That is nonsense. What you are? That is the defect of the modern civilization. They simply want to instruct by his experience. But what is your experience? They're all imperfect. But they are persisting, "No, we cannot accept any knowledge without experiment." Is it not the position. Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Experiments.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: They're after.
Prabhupada: Now, that the scientists will say, "Why we shall accept Krsna's version as perfect?" Do they not say like that?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, they ask.
Prabhupada: But they cannot give any perfect information, their theories. So our process is to take Krsna... Not only our, this is the parampara system. All the acaryas -- Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya -- they take Krsna's version as perfect. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, therefore, that "You do not instruct anything which is manufactured by you. Do not instruct all these..." Because you are imperfect. You have manufactured all your theories. They are imperfect. Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore says, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is perfection. If you say Krsna's upadesa, instruction, then it is perfect. And if you say your experimental instruction, that is imperfect.
Here it is said that idam hi pumsas tapasah... Every knowledge... Just like here is our Dr. Svarupa Damodara. He has got the doctorate title. We have seen your book. It is a learned scholarship, research work. So that is nice. But he has admitted the original cause is Krsna. So we are asking everyone that "Whatever knowledge you have got..." It doesn't matter whether you are a chemist or physicist or an engineer or medical man... Any... There are so many. Lawyer, politician. So many departmental knowledge. So one becomes doctor and expert by high research work. For the last... How many years you were in USA?
Svarupa Damodara: I think five years.
Prabhupada: Five years. After five years hard work and placing the theses among the learned scholars, they admitted, "Yes, it is very nice research work." Now they have offered him a Ph.D. So it is tapasya. Tapasya. Without tapasya, you cannot get any credit. That is not possible. If one wants to get credit immediately, without tapasya, that is bogus. Therefore it is said, tapasah, and srutasya. Srutasya means hearing from the authorities. By attending lectures of the professors, of the scientific scholars, hearing. Or Vedic knowledge.
So anyway, everyone is getting knowledge, perfection, by tapasya, by austerity, by learned scholarship. So here it is said that, that these things are required for describing Krsna. These things are required for describing Krsna. Not only on the theory, but actually to prove that this knowledge is there, Krsna is full of all opulences, and... It is said... Jnana, jnana-vairagyayos caiva sannam bhaga itingana. Eh? What is the beginning? Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasah sriyah. Krsna means He's the full opulent Personality of Godhead with all riches, all reputation, all beauty, all knowledge. That you have to prove. Any department of knowledge, you have to prove that it..., this knowledge is coming from Krsna. Sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1].
isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]
That is Krsna consciousness. (aside:) Let him sit down properly. That is scholarship. You make research work, but... In the sastra it is said that Krsna is the original person of this departmental knowledge. Suppose you are a lawyer. So Krsna gives the law. This is research work. Just actually Krsna gives. What is Krsna gives? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is law. The first giver of law is Krsna, that "You give up all nonsense. Surrender unto Me." This is law. Then you'll understand everything. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Religion means the law given by Krsna, or God. That is religion. Otherwise, it is not religion. That is cheating. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. This is cheating religion. If you do not follow Krsna, that is cheating.
"Krsna" means... When I say "Krsna," Krsna means God. God is one. That is Krsna. Others, they admit that God is one. But they do not know who is that one God. That is their defect. That is the difference between us and others. They do not know... Just like if I say that "Have you got any father?" So he'll say, "Yes, I have got my father." "Now, who is your father?" "I do not know." That's not a very good credit. Because without father, mother, there is no existence. So everyone knows I have got a father. But who is my father, that I do not know. At least, in India, one who cannot say his father's name, immediately he becomes degraded. Just like the Jabala Satyakama. Jabala Satyakama, he, he was... He went to Gautama Muni, "Please initiate me." And according to Vedic conclu..., initiation is meant for the brahmana. Brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya. Not for the sudras. Sudras are not initiated. And in the Kali-yuga, because everyone is a sudra, therefore he's first of all given training to become a brahmana. Then the sacred thread is offered. This is the process. Because actually, initiation cannot be given to anyone except a brahmana. So kalau sudra-sambhavah: "In the Kali-yuga, everyone is sudra." That is to be accepted without any disagreement. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. Because they have no samskara. Asamskrtah kriya-hina mlecchah. One who is not undergone the reformatory processes, garbhadhana-samskara, upanayana-samskara... There are ten kinds of samskaras, reformatory. One who has not gone, or one who is not permitted to undergo the samskara, he's sudra. Samskarad bhaved dvijah. Everyone is born sudra. By reformatory method, he becomes twice-born -- by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge is the mother, and spiritual master is the father.
In this way, the Jabala Upanisad... He was asked by his, by Gautama Muni, "Who is your father?" So he said that "I do not know." "Then go to your mother. Ask her." The mother could not say, that "I do not know who is your father. I have connection with so many men." So he came back to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know." She said that she had many connections, ‘I do not who is particularly your father.' " But Gautama Muni immediately accepted him, "Yes, you are brahmana, because you are truthful. Nobody dares to say like that, that ‘I do not know my father's name. My mother said that she had many connections.' " Because he was truthful, satyam samo damas titiksa, so by the quality, he was accepted immediately, and he was initiated, that "You have the qualities of brahmana." A brahmana will speak truth, even to his enemy. If the enemy comes, if a rogue comes, "How much money you have got in your box?" a brahmana will say, "Sir, I have got one hundred dollars." (laughs) Just like the other day, in the Customs examination in Bombay, so our Brahmananda Maharaja was asked, "What is the value?" "No, I have purchased it." "What is the value?" "Two hundred dollars." He did not say that "I am using it for long time." No. "It is new. I have purchased." That's all right. Yes. But Kali-yuga is so implicated that sometimes we have to speak the untruth. But it is the business of the brahmana to speak the truth. No untruth.
So, so in this way our proposition is that if we want perfection, then in whatever position we are, either I am a brahmana, or I am a ksatriya, or I am a vaisya, or I am a sudra -- it doesn't matter, if we simply take this vow, that Krsna is the original cause of everything... A sudra is also a, the original cause is Krsna. Krsna says in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that He is the cause of the sudras. You should not hate anyone, because everyone is born of Krsna. Aham bija-pradah pita. Krsna says. Sarva-yonisu. It doesn't matter in what form the living entity is there, but Krsna claims that He is the father, He is the father. So either brahmana or ksatriya or vaisya or sudra or mleccha, yavana, or white, black, European, American -- anyone -- he should know that the original cause is Krsna. This is perfection of life.
idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va
svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh
avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito
yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam
[SB 1.5.22]
So if everyone says that "Original cause of my existence is Krsna," this is Krsna consciousness. It doesn't matter. Not that a brahmana... Brahmana is the mouth of Krsna, and ksatriya is the arm of Krsna, and vaisya is the belly of Krsna, and sudra is the leg of Krsna. But do we distinguish that "Here is Krsna's mouth, or head; all the flowers should be offered here, not to the leg"? Do we make any such distinction? When we worship Krsna, rather, our first duty is to offer to the lotus feet of Krsna. And Krsna says that sudra, in Bhagavata says, sudra is the leg. So there may be distinction of profession, occupation, caste, creed, color... It doesn't matter. But if everyone tries to become Krsna conscious, that "The original cause of my existence is Krsna," then there is life... Life is perfect. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. Not blindly, but by research work, that how the original cause is Krsna? Krsna says, aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the original cause of everything. Everything emanates from Me." How can I deny that Krsna is not cause? This is Krsna consciousness. Therefore, those who are advanced devotee, he does not see anything else but Krsna. Because Krsna is the cause of everything. That is required. Therefore he's Krsna consciousness.
So we should not take anything neglectfully. Neither we should be careless to take care of Krsna's property, Krsna's living being, Krsna's house, Krsna's temple, Krsna's business, Krsna's... Everything Krsna's. Krsna. Isavasyam idam sarvam yat kinca jagatyam jagat. If we think like that, then that is perfect Krsna consciousness. Man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah. We may think, see varieties of things. It doesn't matter. But if we know that the original cause of this thing is Krsna, that is perfection. We are seeing this table. It is wood. But if we know... It is a fact. You know or not know, that doesn't matter. The original cause is Krsna. The microphone, the original cause is Krsna. These karatalas, the original cause is Krsna. This pitcher, original cause is Krsna. Everything. That is Krsna consciousness. And it is fact. Not that we are imagining. Just like... Take, for example, these material things. Material things, this table. It is... How it is caused by Krsna? Krsna says, bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca. Bhumi, this earth... Bhinna prakrtir me astadha: "That is My energy." So, so bhumi, the earth, is the cause of the tree, wood, and the wood is the cause of this table. Therefore, originally, Krsna is the cause of the table. There is no doubt about it. Anything you take. Either you take this wood or you take this water or this ether or chemical, the original cause is Krsna.
Now, to be ascertained, education, that why it is called Krsna is the origin. That is research work. How it has been...? Just like I give you the hint of research work that, Krsna says that "The earth is my energy, separated energy." And earth is the cause of the wood. And wood is the cause of the fire. Fire is the cause of melting... So many, so many. You can go. So idam hi pumsas tapasah...kavibhir nirupitah. Describe the attributes of Krsna. You can write. Just like you can write volumes of books on this table. If you are intelligent enough, you can make research work on the table. But in that research work, conclude that Krsna is the origin. A carpenter can, he can write about Krsna, if he's thoughtful. Anyone. Therefore it is said, yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam. Whatever your profession is there, you know that the original cause is Krsna. Now make research work and find out how Krsna is the original cause. That is education. That is wanted. Am I right?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. So everyone can write books. Everyone wants to write books, wants to show some scholarship. Do it. But the conclusion should be that "Here is the original cause." And it is already said in the sastra... Krsna personally says that
aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
[Bg. 10.8]
This is budhah. Those who are actually educated, they're called budhah, in full knowledge.
So there are departmental knowledge. So by research work, when one understands that Krsna is the original cause of everything, then that is siddhanta. Therefore Caitanya-caritamrta karaca says that
siddhanta baliya citte na kara alasa
iha ha-ite krsne lage sudrdha manasa
Siddhanta, conclusion, try to study. Krsna says, "I am the origin of everything." So whatever subject matter you have got, you study. Then when you come to this conclusion, "Yes, actually Krsna is the original cause," then your devotion of Krsna immediately increases. If you accept blindly Krsna, that is one thing, another one thing. And if you study, make research work, and find out Krsna is the original cause, then your love for Krsna will increase. So this is required. This is required.
So this verse is very important thing. And everyone should make research work. But a devotee, one who has concluded, one who has perfectly known that Krsna is the original cause of everything, he hasn't got to do anything. His business is finished. He doesn't require any more to go, undergo severe austerities to find out whether Krsna is cause or not cause. Because he has already known. He has already known. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. No more tapasya. Chant Hare Krsna. But if you have got doubt, make research work. You'll have to come to the conclusion. But if you have concluded it, "Yes, Krsna is the original cause of everything," then your business is finished. Chant Hare Krsna. But if you have got doubt, then do it. That is your business. Don't be blind. Either you accept here the words of Krsna... Krsna says, "I am the original cause of everything." That's all right. If you believe that "Krsna says," it is all right. If you do not believe, then make the research and find out. That is perfection. In both ways you'll have to come to the...
Because the fact is fact. Either... Suppose somebody says, "Don't touch fire. It will burn your hand." If you accept it, your father's advice or your teacher's advice, "Don't touch fire," it is as good. And if you want to make research, "No, why shall I believe my father, my teacher. Let me experiment, touch," the result will be the same. Result will be the same. But if you want to make experiment, do it. But come to this conclusion, that Krsna is the original cause of everything. Then your life is perfect.
Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Pusta-krsna(?): ...translation... [break] ...Bhagavad-gita... [break]
Dayananda: ...Prabhupada...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Dayananda: What is that... [break]
Prabhupada: ...nice. I don't exactly... We have heard from authorities. There is no question of inquiring. What is the... Even if you don't quote, you can assert firmly that everyone is a sudra. How? Now, guna-karma-vibhagasah. Bhagavad-gita says this classification is made, guna-karma. So what is the karma at the present moment? They're seeking service. The so-called education means seeking service, master. Paricaryatmakam karma sudrasyapi svabhava-jam. This is sastra. Anyone who is attached to give service to others or, without giving service to others, he cannot live, that is, he's sudra. He has no independent existence. Just like I was showing, the dog. Unemployed. Lean and thin and... Because he has no master. The same dog, when he has got a master, he'll be stout and strong, and he'll, as soon as you... "Owf! Owf! Bow! (laughter) I have got my master." So this is sudra. Sudra is compared with the dog. A dog is never happy without a master. Then it is a street dog. That is the difference between household dog and a street dog. So in this age practically you see, unless there is employment, he's a street dog. That is the proof that everyone is a sudra. That is the proof.
Brahmananda: Brahmana is not to accept any employment.
Prabhupada: No. He'll die of starvation. He'll not accept any employment. That is brahmana. Ksatriya also that, and vaisya also. Only sudra. A vaisya will find out some business. He'll find out some business. So there is a practical story. One Mr. Nandi, long, long ago, in the Calcutta, he went to some friend that, "If you can give me a little capital, I can start some business." So he said, "You are vaisya? Mercantile?" "Yes." "Oh, you are asking money from me? Money's on the street. You can find out." So he said, "I don't find." "You don't find? What is that?" "That, that is a dead mouse." "That is your capital." Just see.
So in those days plague in Calcutta, plague was going on. So municipal declaration was any dead mouse brought to the municipal office, he'll be paid two annas. So he took that dead body of the mouse and took to the municipal office. He was paid two annas. So he purchased some rotten betel nuts with two annas, and washed it and sold it at four annas, or five annas. In this way, again, again, again, that man became so rich man. One of their family members was our Godbrother. Nandi family. That Nandi family still, they have got four hundred, five hundred men to eat daily. A big, aristocratic family. And their family's regulation is as soon as one son or daughter is born, five thousand rupees deposited in the bank, and at the time of his marriage, that five thousand rupees with interest, he can take it. Otherwise there is no more share in the capital. And everyone who lives in the family, he gets eating and shelter. This is their... But the original, I mean to say, establisher of this family, Nandi, he started his business with a red, a dead rat, or mouse.
That is actually fact, actually fact, that if one wants to live independently... In Calcutta I have seen. Even poor class vaisyas, and in the morning they'll take some dal, bag of dal, and go door to door. Dal is required everywhere. So in morning he makes dal business, and in evening he takes one canister of kerosene oil. So in the evening everyone will require. Still you'll find in India, they... Nobody was seeking for employment. A little, whatever he has got, selling some ground nuts or that peanuts. Something he's doing. After all, Krsna is giving maintenance to everyone. It is a mistake to think that "This man is giving me maintenance." No. Sastra says, eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman. It is confidence in Krsna, that "Krsna has given me life, Krsna has sent me here. So He'll give me my maintenance. So according to my capacity, let me do something, and through that source, Krsna's maintenance will come." Just like we are maintaining so many people in the Krsna consciousness movement. So what business we are doing? But we are confident that Krsna will send us our maintenance. That confidence required. A sudra means he becomes disturbed. He becomes disturbed. "Oh, I have no employment. How shall I eat? Where shall I go? Where shall I live?" He has no faith in Krsna. The brahmana has got full faith. The ksatriya has got little less faith, the vaisya, little less faith, and the sudra has no faith. This is the difference.
So your question was that how we can know a sudra? That because everyone is now faithless and everyone is seeking after employment. Therefore... We may discuss in so many ways. Because people have become sudra, therefore the capitalists are exploiting them. If everyone denies to be, serve, then these so-called industries will fail. Immediately. That is Gandhi's proposal. "Noncooperate with the British government, and it will wind up." And actually so happened. Because people are now sudras, they depend for their bread to others, the others exploit them: "Come here. You work and I shall give you bread." They do not believe any more, "O God, give us our daily bread." They think that "This, our master give us daily bread." That is sudra. Sudra means one who is dependent on others. Paricaryatmakam karyam sudra-karma svabhava-jam. This is the description, definition of sudra. And vaisya: krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. The vaisya is doing the krsi, agriculture. Why he should depend on...? Take some land from the government. You produce your food. Where is the difficulty? Keep some cows. You get milk. Vaisya-karma svabhava... Go-raksya. If you have got excess, then make trade. Why you should depend on others?
But they do not know. They want that "I shall go at ten o'clock in the office, and I shall do nothing. Simply I shall take the pen and make like this and take my salary." That's all. Cheating. This is going on. Therefore the whole system is polluted. Nobody's doing his duty. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma... [Bg. 4.13]. According to one's quality, one must work. But nobody wants to work. So therefore they are sudras. They are working, but at the care of somebody else. Not independently. Now the school, college, the teacher is also depending on salary. So they are sudras. So what teaching they will give? Teaching is the business of the brahmana. No salary. Formerly, all the brahmanas, they used to have that... It is called tola, catuspathi. Catuspathi. Brahmana, he'll sit down anywhere and invite that "If you like, you can come and take some teachings from me."
Brahmananda: Caitanya Mahaprabhu did that.
Prabhupada: Yes. So still in villages you'll find, the brahmana is sitting somewhere, and the small children are coming, and they're bringing some presentation. Somebody's bringing rice, somebody ... And brahmana was satisfied, satisfied. "Whatever Krsna sends, that's all right." This is brahminical qualification. He doesn't want more. There was a brahmana teacher in Krsnanagara. So the zamindar of Krsna..., Raja-krsna-candra, he went that "Brahmana, what can I help you?" "No, I don't want your help." "No, you are... Your house is not very good, and your..." "No, I am quite satisfied." "How you are pulling on?" "No, I have got my students. They bring some rice. And here is a tamarind tree. My wife collects some leaves and boils it, and that becomes nice soup. And these boys bring some rice. I am quite satisfied."
[break] "...as your production is there, give me twenty-five percent. I'll give you protection." That is ksatriya business. Brahmana's business, teaching. And vaisya: till the field, agriculture, get your food. Now, where is dependence? Only a sudra, he cannot take up all these things. "Give me some service, sir. Give me some service." In the modern education, they... The more and more industries increasing, there sudras are being trained up. Technology. Technology means he must get some service. Otherwise, useless. Simple life, teaching, brahmana; and ksatriya, give protection; and vaisya, till the ground. This is... Where is the question of scarcity? The scarcity is that nobody's doing his real duty. Guna-karma-vibhagasah. And people are exploiting. There is competition, dissatisfaction, fight. So many things, sinful activities. The whole society is polluted. Actually, the whole human society is now conducted by the sudras. But sudras cannot run on government. That is not possible. Because that sudra, your Nixon, is a sudra, he is exalted post, therefore everything is not in order.
Brahmananda: Ksatriyas should run the government?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Brahmananda: And the brahmanas should give advice.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Vedic system. The brahmanas would never take part in administration. They would give advice according to sastra.
Svarupa Damodara: I have a comment on that research.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Svarupa Damodara: You said that researches are all right, but there has to be a standard.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: It has to be standardized.
Prabhupada: Yes. Research.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. So that is the business of the research scholar, how to make it standardized. Everything is standardized. Just like you have found the molecules, protons, and... They are working in a standardized way. They are not working whimsically there. There is standard process.
Svarupa Damodara: And what is that standard? What is that standard of research?
Prabhupada: The standard is already there. Is not that?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, but...
Prabhupada: Standard is already there. Krsna has already made the standard. Our intelligence is to know how the standard has come.
Svarupa Damodara: So we say that brahma-jijnasa is a standard. Is that, is that...? Is that okay?
Prabhupada: Brahma-jijnasa means... Anything you take, it is working in a standard way. Just like the sun is rising. So the brahma-jijnasa means how the sun is rising exactly in time? Who has made this rule? And in astronomy there is very fine calculation, one ten-thousandth part of a minute or something like that? I have heard from you scientists. They, they make calculation of the movement of the sun, that. In astrology also, the moment is calculated like that. If the exact moment is there, by mathematical calculation, he can give you the exact history of your whole life. This is standard, all standard. Niyamitah. Yasyajnaya bhramati kala-cakrah. There is, Brahma-samhita says:
yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam
raja samasta-sura-murtir asesa-tejah
yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
How exactly the sun and the moon and the planets, they are rotating? How? Yasyajnaya, by whose order? That Govinda, adi-purusa, I offer my respectful... Everywhere you'll find the research.
Svarupa Damodara: But the difference between the transcendentalists and the scientists is that they do not know the standard of research.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore we say they are fools. Why do we say mudhah? Because they do not know. And our business is easy. We take Vedic version, Krsna's version, Brahma's version, Vyasadeva's version, and accept. That's all. Which one is easiest? Our business is very simple. You ask your father... A child asks his father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "This is microphone, my dear child." And he will, "Mother, this is microphone." So when he says this "Mother, this is microphone," is he correct or not?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, he is.
Prabhupada: He's correct. He may be child. But because he has accepted the words of his father, the statement is correct. So our process is that. Take the version of the authority, Krsna, and you repeat it. Your version is perfect. This is our policy. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, "You rascal scholar, philosopher, scientist, don't manufacture anything. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. You become master." Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You become master. You can teach others. A spiritual master. That's all. And if, whatever little success I have got -- only for this reason. I have never said anything which is not spoken by Krsna. I never said, "In my opinion." I never said. You are so many students. I never said that to you. What is my opinion? One should know, "What is the value of my opinion? I am imperfect being." This is called trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. If one thinks, "Oh, I am big scholar. I am this. I am that," you are rascal. You have to simply carry the message of Krsna. But for your understanding you can make research work.
Svarupa Damodara: That is the secret.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the secret.
yasya deve para bhaktir
yatha deve tatha gurau
tasyaite kathita hy arthah
prakasante mahatmanah
[SU 6.23]
If one has got unflinching faith in Krsna and his representative, guru, then all the knowledge will be revealed to him automatically. Just like yourself. You are a big scientist. You have talked with me, you have studied with me, and you have examined me in so many ways. And I have also spoken whatever I had knowledge. Unless you are convinced, how you can say that "You are my spiritual master"? So what is the secret? I am not a scientist. I am not M.A., C.A How do you agree to accept me as spiritual master? Because I stick to this principle, Krsna and guru, that's all. This is the secret of guru.
So today is Baladeva avirbhava. Baladeva, in the strength. Nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah. You cannot understand, realize yourself without the help of Baladeva. Therefore in the Vedic literatures: nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah. You cannot become self-realized without the help of, without the mercy of Baladeva. Now, our Vivekananda Swami, he interpreted that "Unless you become stout and strong like the bulls and the buffalo, you cannot realize self." He interpreted like that. So he engaged people to make gymnastics, exercise. "You become very stout and strong, eat meat, and..." This is going on. This philosophy is going on. Bala-hinena... "Unless you become as strong as a tiger, you cannot realize yourself." This interpretation is going on. Bala-hinena labhyah. Therefore they are... Always they put this argument, that "Our countrymen is suffering. There is no food. First of all we must give them food, make them strong, stout. Then we shall talk about Krsna consciousness." Do they not say like that?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is another nonsense. Bala-hinena does not mean this physical strength. Bala-hin... Bala, bala means spiritual strength, Baladeva. Baladeva is spiritual strength. Nityananda. Balarama haila nitai.
Brahmananda: Hina, hina. Bala-hina?
Prabhupada: Hina means without. And bala means strength. So sastra says, nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah: "One who is less strong, or one who has no support of the strength, then he cannot make any progress in spiritual self-realization." This is the Vedic injunction. So they interpret that unless you become physically strong, you cannot make any spiritual advancement. So...? But in the Western countries we have seen, so many people physically very strong, stout and strong. Practically everyone. But what is their self..., advancement in self-realization? So these things are going on. So bala means spiritual strength, not material strength. Nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah. That means one must be spiritually strong. And that spiritually strong means to have good faith in Krsna and guru. That is spiritual strength. Therefore Baladeva means guru, spiritual strength. Balarama haila nitai. Nitaiyer karuna habe... What is that song? Nitaiyer karuna habe vraje radha-krsna pabe. He is... "If there is mercy of Nitai, then..." That Visansena(?), call him. (calls out to someone who is apparently leaving) Serji, aiye na? (Hindi)
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Aiye, saheb.
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Aiye.
Indian: (Hindi) What is... What shall I do, coming?
Prabhupada: Sit down. You can make some space. Aiye.
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: [break] ...the verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam,
idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va
svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh
avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito
yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam
[SB 1.5.22]
That everyone is situated in some business, occupation. So it is the duty of the person, never mind in whatever occupation he is engaged, uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam, to glorify the Supreme Lord. It doesn't matter whether he is a medical man or he is an engineer or a lawyer, or whatever he may be, politician... His only business is by his occupational duties to glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the basic principle of Krsna consciousness movement. We do not advise that you change your place. There is no need of changing place. Sthane sthitah. This is the Brahma's version. Sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. You remain your, in your occupation, your position, but kindly hear. Therefore we have got so many sastras, Vedic... Therefore the Vedic literature is known as sruti. One has to hear. But that education is lacking. Nobody is hearing the Vedic literatures. They are hearing so many other things, but not... Therefore Bhagavata says, srotavyadini rajendra nrnam santi sahasrasah. Srotavyadini. The business is to hear.
But,
srotavyadini rajendra
nrnam santi sahasrasah
apasyatam atma-tattvam
grhesu grha-medhinam
[SB 2.1.2]
Grhesu. We are now compact in our home. You take universal home or your house home or this body home, we are within. So grhesu grha-medhinam. Because we have taken that the home business is everything. Grhesu grha-medhinam. And who has taken like this? Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2], one who cannot see the, "What is the value of my existence," atma-tattvam. So for them, srotavyadini rajendra nrnam santi sahasrasah [SB 2.1.2], they have got many things to hear. Here, of course, in India, we have got newspaper, four pages, five pages, but in the foreign countries, especially in America, they'll present newspaper, so big. Therefore there is paper scarcity. You see? Unnecessarily printing so much, huge quantity of newspapers. And people... Sometimes they do not touch it. The newspaper man throws in everyone's bungalow, and it is lying for three days. So who is going to read? But they are making their business because they get advertisement. In the... Many news. So they have got to hear or understand so many news, but not this Bhagavatam. They'll devote the whole day for reading this newspaper or some fiction or some novels, for this and that. Some political talks and... But they have no time to hear Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. Apasyatam atma... Because they have no, no interest in self-realization. There is no interest. People have lost all interest. This is the position. Therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is essential at the present moment.
Now, these European and Americans, they have enough heard about all these nonsense. Therefore they are anxious to hear about self-realization.
srotavyadini rajendra
nrnam santi sahasrasah
apasyatam atma-tattvam
grhesu grha-medhinam
[SB 2.1.2]
(Hindi) He was punishable. It was the duty of the government to see that "You are posing yourself as brahmana. Whether you are doing the duty of a brahmana?" If he's not doing, then he was punished. Therefore nobody was unemployed. A brahmana is doing his duty, ksatriya's doing his duty, vaisya his duty. We get this information from Maharaja Prthu's kingdom. He, he was very strict, that whether one is doing his duty. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. If the brahmana is doing his duty, the ksatriya is doing his duty, and vaisya is doing his duty, then where is the unemployment? And it is the duty of the government to see that everyone is doing his duty.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, no. Society means this combination of all these men. So if everyone is doing his duty, then it is quite all right. That is perfect society. Society means some combination of men. So if every man perfectly does his duty, then there is no question of imperfect...
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty. That I was explaining, that at the present moment mostly persons, they are sudras. Just like in your body there are four divisions. Your head division, your arm division, your belly division, and your leg division. And if you cut off everything, simply you keep the legs, then what will be done? So at the present moment there is no brahmana, no ksatriya. Maybe some vaisyas only. Only sudras. Therefore there is chaos. If the division is made, kept, as it is advised in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13], according to guna and karma, then the society is maintained very nicely, properly. If your head is working nicely, if your arms are working nicely, if your stomach is working nicely, leg is working..., then you are fit. But if you have got only legs, and head, there is no head, there is no arm, then what is the...? Dead society.
So we are giving education at the present moment to become sudras. Paricaryatmakam karyam sudra-karma svabhava-jam. To serve others. A brahmana will not serve anyone else. A ksatriya will not serve anyone else. A vaisya will not serve anyone else. Only the sudras. So at the present moment we are giving sudra education. Everyone is taking one application: "Give me some service." "No vacancy, sir." Therefore it is said, kalau sudra-sambhavah. In the Kali-yuga everyone is sudra. And how you can have good government by the sudras? Ksatriya required. Just like Maharaja Pariksit. He was touring. As soon as he saw one man is killing cow, "Who are you, rascal, killing cow in my kingdom?" Ksatriya. Give protection. Even to the cows. Praja means one who has taken birth in that land. Why he should not be given protection? But because they are sudras, they do not know what is the ksatriya's duty, what is the government's duty. This is the position. Am I right or wrong?
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, I am speaking according to our sastras.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, no. In those days the whole planet was Bharatavarsa. Therefore it is called Mahabharata.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: That was not small. That was very big. Pariksit Maharaja was going on tour because he was the emperor of the whole planet.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Now it is divided.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, that was another thing. That was for, fight for the right cause. Not for... It may be politically like that, but the division was there, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. And the last, Krsna's compromising plan was that "After all, they are ksatriyas, these five brothers. They cannot take the business of a vaisya or brahmana. So give them five villages so that they may be satisfied, ruling over these..." "No, not even land holding the upper portion of the needle." Then there was fight. Then there was fight.
So as far as possible... Of course, our, this movement is creating brahmanas. People now require a brahmana, the head. Of course, we are not manufacturing anything. Everything is there. Everything is there in the sastra. We do not invent anything. Yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah. The, we, are trying to follow as far as possible, and we are teaching that, that whatever is there...
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: You are coming from Burdow?(?)
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Near Lucknow?
Indian: No.
Indian: Bareilly.
Prabhupada: Bareilly. Oh.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Oh. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.22 -- Vrndavana, August 3, 1974
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