The Darkness Dispellers

Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 1.2 Mayapur, March 26, 1975 download  flash player   Take a test Pradyumna: "I offer my respectful obeisances unto Sri Krsna Caitanya and Lord Nityananda, who are like the sun and moon. They have arisen simultaneously on the horizon of Gauda to dissipate the darkness of ignorance and thus wonderfully bestow benediction upon all." Prabhupada: vande sri-krsna-caitanya- nityandandau sahoditau gaudodaye puspavantau citrau sandau tamo-nudau  [Cc. Adi 1.2]

So yesterday we discussed the first verse,

(vande) gurun isa-bhaktan
isam isavatarakan
tat-prakasams ca tac-chaktih
krsna-caitanya-samjnakam
 [Cc. Adi 1.1]

Krsna Caitanya, Sri Krsna Caitanya, He has got manyfold expansion. The first expansion is prakasa, svayam-prakasa, Balarama. And Nityananda is Balarama. Vrajendra-nandana yei, saci-suta hoilo sei, balarama hoilo nitai. We have to understand from the mahajana, Narottama das Thakura. Sometimes some foolish people interpret Nityananda as expansion of Radharani, but that is not the fact. Nityananda is Balarama. We have to know from mahajana. We cannot manufacture our own idea. That is blasphemy, sahajiya. Yata mat tata pat. These things are not accepted by mahajana. Mahajana means who follows the previous mahajana. This is the system. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu strictly followed this principle. Krsna also recommended evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. We have to receive knowledge through the disciplic succession. Mahajana-gatah. You cannot manufacture. This concoction has killed the spiritual life of India. "You can think any way; I can think in my way" -- that is not at all scientific. You cannot think "Two plus two equal to three" or "five." Two plus two equal to four. You cannot think otherwise. (people talking in background) (aside:) Ask them to stop.

So Nityananda means prakasa, svayam-prakasa, Balarama. Balarama is, I mean to say, presenting Krsna. Therefore Balarama is guru-tattva. Guru is representative of Balarama, of Nityananda, Guru Nityananda, because He is exhibiting Krsna. He is presenting Krsna, prakasa. Just like when there is sunshine you can see everything very correctly. That is called prakasa. In the darkness everything is covered. At night we cannot see, but during daytime, when there is prakasa, illumination, then we can see everything. So Nityananda Prabhu is Balarama. Balarama is prakasa-tattva. He's manifesting Krsna. Balarama hoila nitai. So vande sri... Sri Krsna Caitanya is the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead, and next, Nityananda, or, yes, Nityananda, is exhibiting Him. When Nityananda was preaching in Bengal, He first of all delivered the Jagai and Madhai. That was his first business. He showed how to serve Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Krsna Caitanya means Krsna Himself. Sri-krsna-caitanya radha-krsna nahe anya. Radha-Krsna combined together is Sri Krsna Caitanya. And Nityananda is exhibiting Krsna Caitanyadeva.

So how one can exhibit Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that is... By His personal example Nityananda Prabhu has given us lesson. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu was sending His devotees to preach and Nityananda Prabhu was doing that, He used to go with Haridasa Thakura to preach on the street, home to home. So when they saw there was a big crowd on the street, so Nityananda Prabhu inquired from the people, "Why there is so many people assembled?" He was informed that "There are two gundas, rogues. They are creating some trouble." The gundas, their business is to create trouble, that's all. Every one of us we know, especially at the present moment in Bengal. Yes. This is due to lack of preaching of Krsna consciousness. Nityananda Prabhu is not given the chance. Nityananda Prabhu is very eager to preach, but He's not given chance. Actually, those who are proud of becoming descendants of Nityananda Prabhu... In Bengal there is a family, they say that they are descendants from Nityananda Prabhu. So apart from controversy, even accepting that they are descendants from Nityananda Prabhu, their business is also to act like Nityananda Prabhu. So that business, what is that business? That is described by Narottama dasa Thakura, mahajana, papi tapi yata chilo, hari-name uddharilo, ta'ra saksi jagai-madhai. This is the business of Nityananda Prabhu along with Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Vrajendra-nandana yei, saci-suta hoilo sei, balarama hoilo nitai.

So here Krsna Caitanya and Nityananda, Their identification is Lord Krsna and Balarama. Now, in the Krsna incarnation, these two brothers were engaged as cowherd boys and friends of the gopis, sons of mother Yasoda and Nanda Maharaja. That is actual life in Vrndavana. Krsna and Balarama, They are village cowherds boy. That is the early age history of Krsna-Balarama. And Their another business, when They went to Mathura They killed Kamsa and the wrestlers, and then again, when They went to Dvaraka, They had to fight with so many demons. But Their childhood life, up to sixteenth year, They were in Vrndavana, happy life, simply love. That is paritranaya sadhunam [Bg. 4.8]. Sadhus, devotees, they are always anxious to see Krsna, Balarama and Their associates. They are always very much aggrieved on account of separation. To give them rejuvenation of life, Krsna-Balarama play Their childhood days in Vrndavana. And out of Vrndavana, beginning from Mathura up to Dvaraka and other places, the business was vinasaya ca duskrtam: killing. So They have got two businesses, one for pacifying the devotees, and the other is to kill the demons. Of course, Krsna and Balarama, They are Absolute Truth. There is no difference between killing and loving. They... Absolute. Those who were killed, you know, they were also delivered from this material bondage.

Now these same two brothers have again descended as Sri Krsna Caitanya-Nityananda. Sahoditau: simultaneously They have appeared. Not that one is appeared, another is not there. No. Both of Them, sahoditau. And They are compared with the sun and moon. The business of sun and moon is to dissipate darkness. The sun rises during daytime, and the moon rises at night. But this sun and moon, wonderful sun and moon, citrau, They have appeared together. But the business is the same, tamo-nudau. Business is to dissipate darkness, because we are in darkness. We, anyone who is in this material world, he's in darkness. Darkness means ignorant, no knowledge. They are mostly animals. "Why they are animals, so civilized men, so well-dressed and university education degrees? Why they are in darkness?" Yes, they are in darkness. "What is the proof?" The proof is that they are not Krsna conscious. This is the proof. That is their darkness. Ask anybody, item by item, that... Ask, what do they know about Krsna. Everyone is ignorant, dark. So that is the proof. How this is proof? Now, Krsna says. We do not say; Krsna says. How does He say? Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah, mayayapahrta-jnana [Bg. 7.15]. Apahrta-jnana means that although they have got university degrees, although they are called civilized, advanced in material civilization, but mayayapahrta-jnana. Their degrees, because they do not know Krsna thoroughly and therefore do not surrender to Krsna, which Krsna is canvassing personally, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja... [Bg. 18.66]. He's personally canvassing. Because these rascals and fools, they are in darkness -- they do not know what is the goal of life -- Krsna is so kind that He is canvassing, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. This is the philosophy. So still, they are not doing so. Why? Naradhamah. Because the lowest of the mankind, naradhama. How they have become naradhama? Now, duskrtina, always committing sinful life. What is sinful life? Illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. Because they are addicted to these things they are duskrtina and naradhama, lowest of the mankind. And whatever knowledge they are acquiring by so-called education, that is false knowledge. Mayayapahrta-jnana. This is the position.

So Sri Krsna Caitanya and Nityananda, They came, descended again, being merciful, same Krsna. Vrajendra-nandana yei, Saci-suta hoilo sei. Same Krsna. In a different way they canvassed the same principle. (aside:) You can sit down there. You are sleeping. Don't sleep. Don't show that sleeping. Go there. So this is the darkness. And Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu appeared to drive away this darkness -- same Krsna, the same Krsna. There is no difference between Krsna's preaching and Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's preaching. There is no difference. The difference is that Krsna, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is demanding that "You rascal, you surrender unto Me. You are suffering so much. You are rascal. I am your father. I want to see you happy; therefore I have come. Surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo [Bg. 18.66]. "You are suffering on account of your duskrti, all sinful activities. Whatever you are doing, all sinful activities." Except Krsna consciousness activities, whatever you do, that is sinful activity. But they have been summarized into four principles. The whole sinful activities of the world, they have been summarized in four lines: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is the summary. But otherwise, of these activities there are many, many branches. But if you cut the root of sinful activities -- this illicit sex and gambling and meat-eating -- then generally, automatically other sinful activities will go. Therefore we who are propagating Krsna consciousness movement, we are just requesting that you give up this sinful life. Otherwise you will be implicated again.

What is that implication? Implication is that your sinful life will get you next body which is also sinful. And again you suffer. Suffering there is. As soon as you get material body, there is suffering. It may be a king's body or it may be a cobbler's body, it doesn't matter, the suffering is there. But because these people are mayayapahrta-jnana, they are accepting suffering as pleasure. This is called maya. He's suffering, but he is thinking it is a good pleasure. Just like the pig. He's eating stool, and he's thinking he's enjoying life. This is called ignorant. He does not know that he's suffering. Maya has given his body to suffer, but even in the pig's body, he's thinking that is enjoying life. This is called maya. Mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. This is called illusion. Illusion. Everyone in this material world, they are suffering in different grades. Just like in the prison house there are different grades of prisoner: first class, second class, third class. But if the first-class prisoner thinks they are enjoying life, that is ignorance. He should know that he's in the prison house. In the prison house where is there enjoyment? It is all suffering. Maybe first-class suffering, (laughter) but it is suffering. So they are all in the darkness, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu appeared to dissipate, tamo-nudau, to dissipate this darkness of the whole human society. That is Their kindness. They are...

So Nityananda Prabhu, being prakasa, He is manifesting Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He's canvassing the same thing. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is canvassing to accept Krsna consciousness, and to accept Krsna consciousness through the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Nityananda Prabhu and Their other assistants is easier, easier. Therefore we see practically, we have taught our disciples to chant first of all the Panca-tattva, sri-krsna-caitanya (devotees chant) prabhu-nityananda, sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda. Thank you. So through the mercy of this Panca-tattva, easily you can approach Krsna, easily. Otherwise how it is possible? These Europeans, Americans, they did not know what was Krsna. Four or five years ago they were unknown. How they have become so devotee of Krsna that ten thousand miles, crossing over the sea, they have come here at Mayapur, unless they have got developed love for this? Their coming is not so easy from neighboring villages, but it costs. They have spent lakhs of dollars -- one dollar equal to eight rupees -- and they have come here. Why? Through the mercy of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.2 -- Mayapur, March 26, 1975

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"Try To Be Godly (Not God)"

74/03/26 Bombay, Bhagavad-gita 4.6


Pradyumna: (leads chanting)

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma
bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakrtim svam adhisthaya
sambhavamy atma-mayaya
[Bg. 4.6]

Translation: "Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original, transcendental form."

Prabhupada: So Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, explaining the method of His appearance and disappearance. People do not know it. Just like the sun. Because we do not see at night, formerly some people used to think "The sun is now dead, or gone." But later on, by scientific method, they have come to know the sun is always in the sky. Due to our different position, we do not see the sun at night. Otherwise, the sun is there. This is... If this is possible for an ordinary material thing, how much it is greatly possible for the Supreme Spirit.

Therefore ajo 'pi san. Krsna has no birth, no death. We have also no birth and death because we are part and parcel of Krsna. We have no birth and death; that is explained already in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gita: Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit...na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20].

So if the part and parcel particles, small atomic particle... We are atomic particle. Our magnitude is described in the sastra, Padma Purana and Upanisad also: kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsah kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. The top portion of the hair, if you divide it into one hundred parts, and again, that one hundredth part, if you divide again hundred parts, that is the magnitude of the spirit soul. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsah kalpitasya, bhago jivah sa vijneyah sa canantyaya kalpate [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. So we living entities, a small particle, very atomic small particle, one ten thousandth part of the top of the hair. It can simply be imagined. We are acintya. But we understand from Vedic literature what is the magnitude. It is not nirakara. That is not a fact. It has got akara. But at our present position, material condition, we cannot measure it.

And because we cannot measure it... Just like in geometry, I have studied that point has no breadth and length. But actually there is breadth and length, but we cannot measure it. Similarly, the magnitude of the spirit soul is smaller than the point. We cannot measure it with our material measuring instruments. Anyway, even if you can, that is the magnitude.

So that small particle is described in the Bhagavad-gita that na jayate na mriyate. That small particle has also no birth and death. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. It is so powerful that that, because that small particle is within this body, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13], it is so healthy, so bright, moving so swiftly, acting so nicely, it has got so nice brain. And as soon as that small particle, atomic particle, is gone from this body, it is useless, a lump of matter.

So if so much power is there for the small particle of the Supreme Soul, how much the Supreme Soul, who is all-pervading, universal form, how much potency he has got, you can just imagine. Therefore Krsna says, ajo 'pi: "Although I have no birth and death." Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma. Atma means this body, atma means this mind, and atma means the soul. Three things, they are called atma. So Krsna's either body or mind or the soul, there is no difference. Krsna's body is avyaya. Our body is vyaya, it deteriorates, changes. (sound of children talking in background) Ask them to stop. Or no, let them go away.

Our body deteriorates, changes. Just like we are born, a small child, baby. It grows, it stays for some time. Then it makes some byproducts. From this body, we get some children, byproducts. Then we deteriorate in old age, and this body is finished. This is called sad-vikara, six kinds of changes of material body. But Krsna hasn't got such changes. Krsna's body is avyaya. His mind is avyaya. That means, as we have got difference between our soul and the body, Krsna hasn't got that. Avyayatma. His mind, His body, and His atma, His soul, the same thing. Or, or the.... He is Supreme Soul, Whole. There is no difference between His body, His mind and soul. This is to be understood. Avyayatma.

Those who cannot understand, they make difference between His atma, Krsna's atma, and Krsna's body. They think... The Mayavadi philosophers, they say that "Krsna, He is God... Or godly." They have got the imagination. "But His body is made of matter." No. That is not. If His body had been made of matter, then how He could remember millions of years ago what He did? We cannot remember even what we did yesterday night or just this morning. We forget. The body's changing. The blood corpuscles are changing. That is scientific. But Krsna hasn't got that. Therefore He is explaining Himself. We can understand Krsna by Krsna's explanation. We should not make any rascal interpretation. Then we'll not be able to understand Krsna. Because our senses are imperfect.

Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi janati tattvam. Either you have to understand Krsna from the Krsna personally.... That is not possible. Or one who has got, received the favor of Krsna, from him you can understand Krsna. Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi. One who is favored with a little mercy of the lotus feet of Krsna, he can understand Krsna. Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. One who has taken shelter of Krsna, that means he is pure devotee. From him you can understand what is Krsna. Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanu... Prasada-lesa, minute quantity of mercy, one who has received from Krsna, he can understand.

Or here is Krsna explaining Himself, that what He is. Ajah, He has no birth and death. One who thinks that "Krsna appeared, and He is now dead. Now another Krsna has appeared," that is not the fact. Krsna is one. He can expand Himself in many forms. That is different thing. But Krsna... Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta haya. He has multi, innumerable forms, but still, He's one, advaita. Advaitam acyutam, He does not fall. He, Krsna... Suppose isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61], because Krsna has expanded Himself in many millions of forms to stay within the heart of the living being, that does not mean Krsna has fallen. Avyayatma. He's the same Krsna. There is no difference.

Krsna is existing in innumerable universes. Krsna is existing everywhere; still, He's avyayatma. From the original Krsna, although He has expanded into millions and trillions, unlimited, still, He's avyaya, without any minus. It is not like that we have got some bank balance, and if it is taken away millions times, then it is finished. No. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate. This is Krsna. This is the verdict of the Vedanta. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate [Isopanisad, Invocation]. Everything which is emanating from Krsna, that is complete. There is no deficiency. Everything. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The Absolute Truth... That is Absolute Truth.

So in all the Vedas, Upanisads, Samhitas, the same thing is described in different way. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). In this way. Here Krsna Himself describes Himself that ajo 'pi and avyayatma. Avyayatma. It does... Krsna's body, mind, there is no difference, absolute. What is Krsna's body, that is Krsna's soul. What is Krsna's mind, that is Krsna's soul. Or what is Krsna's soul, that is Krsna's body, that is Krsna. Avyayatma. Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvarah. Isvarah. He's not ordinary living being. Bhutanam isvarah. That is the difference. He's isvarah. We are not isvarah. We may be isvarah. Isvarah means controller. But that, we are not the supreme isvara. The supreme isvara is called Krsna. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. We are not supreme isvara.

The so-called incarnations of God, they declare that "I am God." But... He may be God. God means a subordinate god. Not the Supreme God. The Supreme God is Krsna. God means controller. You have, you may have some controlling power, admitted, but you are not Supreme Controller. The Supreme Controller is Isvara. Therefore here Krsna... Therefore Krsna says, bhutanam isvaro 'pi. Isvarah. All bhutas... Bhutanam means all living entities, or everything which has appeared within this material world. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. He is the Supreme Source of everything. That is also described in the Tenth Chapter that aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. Mattah sarvam pravartate. Everything. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7].

These things are described. So we have to accept Krsna like that. And if we make our own interpretation, rascal-like, that will not help us to understand what is Krsna and what is Bhagavad-gita. That is going on, generally. "Krsna has no existence." "Krsna, there was no Krsna. It is story." "There was no battlefield of Kuruksetra." These things are going on by, spoken by so-called political leaders and scholars. But that is not the fact. They do not understand Krsna, simply mislead people. Therefore the world is in chaotic condition.

Try to understand Krsna. Then your life will be successful. Krsna is explaining. Krsna is so kind that... Yada yada hi dharmasya [Bg. 4.7]. He'll explain that, why He comes. Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san sambhavami yuge yuge, why? Just to remind us, what is Krsna. Just to teach us. Because we misunderstand. We are so fools and rascals. We misunderstand Krsna. We cannot understand. If we simply understand Krsna, then our life is successful. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. The simple thing. Just try to understand Krsna. This simple, one thing will make your life successful.

So Krsna is explaining Himself. Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro... prakrtim svam adhisthaya. Prakrtim svam. Personal, personal energy, or personal form. Krsna is... He has got His personal form, that Syamasundara, with flute. That is described in the Brahma-samhita: cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa-laksavrtesu surabhir abhipalayantam [Bs. 5.29]. He's very fond of tending cows. Surabhir abhipalayantam. Laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambhrama-sevyamanam govindam adi-purusam tam aham... Venum kvanantam. He's very fond of playing on flute. Aravinda-dalayataksam. His eyes are just like petals of the lotus flower. These are described in the Vedic literature.

So Krsna is not formless. It is not that the devotees of Krsna, by imagination, they have... As the Mayavadi rascals say, that Kr..., "They have made a form by imagination." No. This is, this is described in the Vedas. So... And Krsna, when appeared on this planet, the same thing was visible. Those who have seen, authorities... Just like Vyasadeva, Arjuna. He has seen personally. He has described in the Bhagavad-gita: param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan: [Bg. 10.12] "Your personality is unknown to the so-called scholars. But authorities like Vyasa, Devala, Narada, Asita, they accept Your this form." It is very difficult... These things are there. You'll find in the Tenth Chapter.

So Krsna is not formless, but His... What kind of form He has got, He is describing Himself. Prakrtim svam adhisthaya. How we are... We are forced to take birth by the manipulation of the external, material energy.

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma
kartaham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]

Ahankara... We are under the clutches of the external energy, or material energy. Krsna has got multi-energies. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport].

Maya means energy also. maya means energy. And maya means illusion also. And maya means affection. There are different meanings of maya. So here it is said prakrtim... Prakrtim and maya. Prakrtim svam adhisthaya. He has got multi-energies. That energies have been divided into three: external energy, internal energy, and marginal energy. That you will, also, you will find in the Seventh Chapter.

Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. Para-prakrti and apara-prakrti. The apara-prakrti is this material energy. And the para-prakrti is spiritual energy. There are two kinds of prakrti. So that spiritual... Because Krsna is spiritual whole, so His spiritual energy, prakrtim svam, that internal potency, or the spiritual energy,... so His body is spiritual. His body is not material. Therefore avyayatma, it is imperishable. These things are to be understood. Prakrtim svam adhisthaya sambhavamy atma-mayaya [Bg. 4.6]. Again He says atma-mayaya. He's not forced to take birth by the external energy. He appears by His own energy, internal energy, or spiritual energy. Therefore He's avyayatma. Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san.

Still... We should not take Krsna as one of us because He is bhutanam isvarah. Bhutanam isvaro 'pi san. Just like a crude example may be given. When there was independence movement, Mahatma Gandhi went to jail, and many, many big leaders. But there are other criminals also, pickpockets and thieves and murderers. If they would think, "Now Mahatma Gandhi has come into jail. We are the same. We are the same." No. Similarly, when Krsna comes, if the rascals and fools think that "Krsna is also like us, as we have come into this material world," they are fools. No. We are forced. Just like criminal, a pickpocket or a thief, a rogue, a murderer. He is forced to... So of course, here, Mahatma Gandhi was also forced. But that is not the case. Because He is the controller. Bhutanam isvaro 'pi san. He... The material energy cannot force Krsna. Because He's isvarah. He's the controller. A controller cannot be forced.

Just like in the British constitution it is said that "A king can do no wrong." Even king appears to do, have done something wrong, he does not come within the law. Similarly, although Krsna has killed so many demons, does not mean that He's criminal. He is still the bhutanam isvarah. He's still. That is to be understood. Krsna, superficially, He has done so many things which is sinful for others. Just like this is... These are very, the great subject matters.

This was questioned by Pariksit Maharaja. Pariksit Maharaja, when He danced with the girls of Vrajabhumi, rasa dance, so Pariksit Maharaja inquired from Sukadeva Gosvami that "Krsna, who came to establish the principles of religion, how He danced with girls and wives of others?" That was explained that tejiyasam na dosaya. Tejiyasam na dosaya. Krsna danced with others' wife or sister or other girls. They were all girls. They came at mid of, midnight to dance with Him. But they were also not material. That is spiritual. It requires little brain to understand. So Pariksit Maharaja... Sukadeva Gosvami explained that these things should not be considered by the conditioned souls. They should not even dream of this. It is a different thing. And if you think that Krsna has a fault because He danced with others' wives, so he explained that tejiyasam na dosaya. Tejiyasam... The... A thing which is very, very powerful, he is not contaminated. That is the conclusion.

Just like the sun. The sun soaks water from urine. We pass urine somewhere, and the sun soaks the water, the urine. That... That is poisonous. That is infectious. But that sun does not become infected. Because he's so powerful. If that is possible for ordinary material things, how much powerful is Krsna? So we should not discuss the rasa-lila generally. Because unless one is advanced in spiritual consciousness and Krsna consciousness, they should not try to understand what is rasa-lila. It is very confidential. It is meant for the liberated souls, those who are liberated by devotional service. Actually, those who are engaged in devotional service, they are liberated. They are not within the material world.

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]

So this rasa-lila is to relished by the paramahamsas, liberated souls. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat. Vastavam vedyam. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. Paramo nirmatsaranam. Vastavam vastu vedyam atra.

So we should not jump. First of all we should read Bhagavad-gita very carefully. Try to understand Krsna, what is Krsna. Then we shall be fit to understand what is Bhagavatam. The last conclusion of Bhagavad-gita is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If we can surrender to Krsna wholeheartedly, then we become eligible to understand what is Krsna. That is the... Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. We, if we are advanced in devotional service, then we become fit to understand Krsna.

But still, just to make us fit to understand Krsna, Krsna is describing Himself, what He is. Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san, prakrtim svam adhisthaya. He comes with His own energy. He's not forced by the external energy. We are forced. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. We, as we develop different modes of nature by the association of this external energy, we get our particular body. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur dehopapatti [SB 3.31.1]. But Krsna does not do so.

We have to first of all understand it that Krsna is not forced by karma. We are forced by karma. Therefore we have got different bodies. But Krsna is not... Although He appears in different incarnation... Kesava dhrta-mina-sarira, kesava dhrta-kurma-sarira, kesava dhrta-varaha-sarira, nrsimha-sarira. So Krsna, when He comes as a boar incarnation, He's not ordinary hog and pig. These things are to be understood. He is the bhutanam isvarah in whatever form He likes to come. That is His pleasure. Atma-mayaya. He comes in His atma-mayaya, not by force by the external energy. That is the conclusion. (pause) You read the purport...

Pradyumna: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of His birth. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births."

Prabhupada: That is the test, that He has already explained that He remembers. Therefore His appearance, disappearance, birth, is not ordinary. That is to be understood. Otherwise, how He can remember? We cannot remember. We do not know what we were in our last birth, or millions of years ago. Although we are also eternal. But we do not remember. Therefore there is difference between Krsna's birth and our birth.

When Krsna appeared as the son of Devaki and Vasudeva, He appeared before them as four-handed Narayana. Krsna did not come from the womb of Devaki. You have, most of you have read in the Srimad-Bhagavatam His appearance. He appeared before them as four-handed Narayana. Then Devaki prayed, "My Lord, You have come. Kamsa is now eager to kill You. As soon as..." As a mother, she's speaking simply the truth, that "Kamsa is now eager to kill You. As soon as He will see You four-handed, immediately he will kill You." Because as woman, and simple woman... The four-handed Narayana cannot be killed, but she was thinking that "Because You, now You have appeared as Narayana, four-handed, You'll be immediately killed. Kindly become two-handed." So immediately Krsna became two-handed. Therefore Krsna accepted to be an ordinary child. But He's not ordinary child. Go on.

Pradyumna: "He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before."

Prabhupada: Yes That is the difference between Krsna and ourselves. We do not remember what we have done a few hours ago. What to speak of millions of years ago. But we take our birth because we are eternal. We have taken many births. That is the difference between Krsna's birth and our birth. Then?

Pradyumna: "If someone is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for a common man to answer immediately. He would surely have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing exactly at the same time one day before. And yet, men often dare claim to be God, or Krsna. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims."

Prabhupada: Yes. These, considering these verses from the Bhagavad-gita, we should not foolishly accept these so-called cheaters as God. That is not very nice thing. These are the symptoms of God, how He takes His birth. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah. We should try to understand what is God. We should not take so cheaply that "Here is God incarnation. Here is..." No. That is misleading. Then?

Pradyumna: "And then again the Lord explains His prakrti, or His form. Prakrti means nature as well as svarupa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity changes from one body to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but he has a different body in the next birth."

Prabhupada: Here, our body, now we have got human body. So next, next life it may be a demigod's body, or it may be cat's body, dog's body. The body changes. Krsna does not... Avyayatma. That is the difference. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the material world a living entity has no fixed body, but transmigrates from one body to another. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Krsna appears in this material world in His original eternal form with two hands holding a flute. He appears exactly in His eternal body, uncontaminated by this material world. Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is Lord of the universe, it still appears that..."

Prabhupada: How He can be contaminated by the modes of material nature? Because Krsna says that

daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]

If somebody surrenders to Krsna, He becomes free from the touch of maya. Simply by surrendering to Krsna, if one becomes liberated from the clutches of maya, how Krsna can be under the clutches of maya? This is foolishness. Those who say that "Krsna also accepts this material body," that, that is not the fact.

And another thing is, either the material energy or the spiritual energy, both are Krsna's energies. So even He appears like that, He has accepted the material body, that material body does not act as material body. He can change matter into spirit and spirit into matter. Because He is the controller, isvarah. Bhutanam isvarah. He can change that.

Just like electrician. He can change a refrigerator into a heater, and a heater into a refrigerator. Because the same power, electricity, is working. He knows the art, how to change it. But we cannot do that. That is the difference between Krsna and ourselves. Hm. Then?

Pradyumna: "Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is Lord of the universe, it still appears that He takes His birth like an ordinary living entity. Despite the fact Lord Krsna grows from childhood to boyhood, and from boyhood to youth, astonishingly enough, He never ages beyond youth. At the time of the Battle of Kuruksetra, He had many grandchildren at home, or, in other words, He had sufficiently aged by material calculations. Still, He looked just like a young man, twenty or twenty-five years old. We never see a picture of Krsna in old age because He never grows old like us, although He is the oldest person in the whole creation, past, present and future. Neither His body nor His intelligence ever deteriorates or changes. Therefore it is clear that in spite of His being in this material world, He is the same unborn eternal form of bliss and knowledge, changeless in His transcendental body and intelligence. Factually, His appearance and disappearance is like the sun's rising, moving before us and then disappearing from our eyesight. When the sun is out of sight, we think that the sun has set, and when the sun is before our eyes, we think that the sun is on the horizon."

Prabhupada: Krsna does not appear or disappear. Our eyesight changes. Just like we are looking through the window. One horse race is going on. When the horse comes before the window, we can see. And when it passes through, from our eyesight, we think that horse is no longer existing. But the horse is running. This example should be taken. Krsna is called nitya-lila. He is taking His birth, He is fighting in the battle of Kuruksetra, He's dancing with the gopis. That is going on eternally in either of the so many, innumerable universes. So the same time...

Just like the change of time. Now it is nine o'clock in the watch. Now, this nine o'clock, this is now night. The morning nine o'clock is still existing somewhere. Similarly, Krsna's lila, Krsna's pastime, is going on. Everything is going on at the same moment. Therefore His lila is called nitya-lila. Nitya means eternal. It does not change. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Actually, the sun is always in its fixed position, but owing to our defective, insufficient senses, we calculate the appearance and disappearance of the sun in the sky. And because His appearance and disappearance are completely different from that of any ordinary common living entity, it is evident that He is eternal blissful knowledge by His internal potency, and He is never contaminated by material nature. The Vedas also confirm that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is unborn. Yet, He still appears to take His birth in multi-manifestations. The Vedic supplementary literatures also confirm that even though the Lord appears to be taking His birth, He is still without change of body. In the Bhagavatam, He appears before His mother as Narayana with four hands and the decoration of the six kinds of full opulences. His appearance in His original eternal form is His causeless mercy, according to the Visvakosa dictionary. The Lord is conscious of all of His previous appearances and disappearances, but a common living entity forgets everything about his past body as soon as he gets another body. He is the Lord of all living entities because He performs wonderful and superhuman activities while He is on this earth. Therefore the Lord is always the same Absolute Truth, and is without differentiation between His form and self or between His quality and body. The question may now be raised as to why the Lord appears and disappears in His form. This is explained in the next verse."

Prabhupada: Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.6 -- Bombay, March 26, 1974