Creation-Sound Explanation

Creation-Sound Explanation

Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.32
Bombay, January 9, 1975

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Nitai: "When egoism in ignorance is agitated by the sex energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the subtle element sound is manifested, and from sound comes the ethereal sky and the sense of hearing."

Prabhupada:

tamasac ca vikurvanad
bhagavad-virya-coditat
sabda-matram abhut tasman
nabhah srotram tu sabdagam
 [SB 3.26.32]

So this creation... The beginning of the creation is the sound. The modern physicist, they also agree. Sound and light, according to their theory... But the sound is the origin of creation, mixed with these modes of ignorance. Everything here in the material world is spiritual reflection covered by the material elements. So when this sound is purified or you catch up the spiritual sound, then your spiritual life begins. As from the material sound this material creation has begun from first of all the sky, nabha, or ether; and from ether, air is created, wind; and from air, then fire is created, electricity... You see. From the sound, there is immediately electricity in the sky, the fire. Electricity means fire. So from sky, the sound is created. From the sound, air is created. By the friction of air, the electricity, or fire, is created. Then, within the fire, there is water. And after water, there is land. This is panca-bhuta, five gross elements. It is coming from the subtle elements. From the subtle elements, the gross elements gradually develop.

So in the ether there is sound, sabdagam. And from the sound the instrument of hearing is created, srotram. Similarly, our subtle senses-rupa, rasa, sabda, sparsa, gandha... So sabda, sparsa..., then sparsa. Sparsa means touching. When there is air, there is touching. Touching sensation is created. And when there is fire, then form sensation is created. When there is water, then rasa, taste sensation, is created. And from rasa, water, when there is earth, then gandha, gandha sensation, or smell, is created. How scientifically it is described: rupa, rasa, gandha, sabda, sparsa. They are the sense perception. The sense perception is created from the five elements: earth, water, air, fire, and ether. And above that, there is still finer materials: mind, intelligence, ego. And then, behind that, the soul is there. As the material creation, behind everything, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is there, bhagavat-coditat... It is not automatically taking place. Vikurvanad bhagavad-virya-coditat. Just like the sex. When the semina is discharged by the man, then there is pregnancy, not automatically. Similarly, here also, the same thing: bhagavad-virya-coditat, in the tamo-guna. That means the origin of this creation is tamo-guna, tamas. The whole creation is tamas, ignorance. Every one of us in ignorance. We do not know. Therefore Vedas says, tamasi ma: "Don't stay in this tamasi." Jyotir gama. Jyoti is Brahman. "Try to come out there." And the whole Vedic knowledge is based on this principle, how to again give up this association of tamasika-guna and come to the sattva-guna, and then surpass sattva-guna, come to the transcendental position of brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20]. This is the position.

So as this material creation has begun from material sound under the agitating, impelling method by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, similarly, by spiritual sound, you can get out of it, because sound is the central point. When it is mixed with tamas, tamo-guna, then the material creation begins. So similarly, if you directly catch up that sound... The sound is sabda-brahma. Sound is actually spiritual, the Vedic sound om, omkara. Omkarasmi sarva-vedesu. So Vedic sound begins: om. So that is a sound. So if we capture that sound and make further progress, sabdad anavrtti... In the Vedanta-sutra it is there, anavrtti, no more repetition of birth and death, omkara. If one can chant omkara at the time of death, immediately transferred to the spiritual world, impersonal spiritual effulgence. But if you can chant Hare Krsna, then immediately you go to the spiritual planet. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Anta-kale, at the time of death, if you can capture this sound, omkara or Hare Krsna... If you capture omkara, then you are transferred to the spiritual sky. As it is said, the sky. Sabdat... Sabda-matram abhut tasman nabhah. Nabha is sky. So there is a point wherefrom the sky, the material sky, begins and there is spiritual sky. The sky is spiritual wherefrom the sabda is resounded. Because there is sky, therefore there is sound. Because there is sound, therefore the instrument of hearing sound, the ear, is there.

So our material position and spiritual position -- the ultimate point is sound. And this sound is presented in its original spiritual form. That is called Veda, sabda-brahma. Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. This brahma means sabda-brahma. The sabda-brahma was imparted or vibrated by Krsna in the heart of Brahma. Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. And then he could realize what is his position. Then, after hearing the sound, he compiled this Brahma-samhita. That Brahma-samhita we have recited many times. The Brahma, Lord Brahma, by personal realization through the mercy of Krsna on account of this sound, transcendental, being injected within heart, he could see the whole spiritual world as it is. And that is described in the Brahma-samhita:

cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa-
laksavrtesu surabhir abhipalayantam
laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambhrama-sevyamanam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.29]

He is offering... He is not claiming himself that "I am the first person for creation," although in this material world, Brahma is the first person, then Lord Siva, Rudra. And before Brahma, there is Visnu. Therefore it is said, aham evasam agre. Agre, "Before the creation, there was only Visnu, or Krsna. There was no Brahma, no Siva." These are Vedic statement. In the beginning Lord Visnu was there. And we know the method of creation. There was water, and from that, in that water, Maha-Visnu is lying there. From Maha-Visnu in His sleeping condition, there are so many... Universes are created in the exhaling breathing process. And when He inhaling, the whole thing is annihilated. In this way this material creation is coming and going. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19].

So we have to understand that the creation actually begins in the tamo-guna by agitated impelled by the Bhagavat, Bhagavan. Here it is stated, vikurvanad bhagavad-virya-coditat. Not that automatically. Just like if you take two chemicals, soda bicarb and citric acid, and mix together, make two solution, soda bicarb and citric acid, and mix together, there will be, what is called? Bubbles. Huh?

Devotee: Effervescence.

Prabhupada: Effervescence, yes. There is effervescence. So that effervescent takes place not due to this chemical but due to the chemist who mixes together. Then effervescence takes place, and then the action comes in contact. So modern scientists, they are being unable to see that who is mixing the chemical. Because Krsna says, naham prakasah sarvasya yoga-maya-samavrtah [Bg. 7.25], therefore the scientist cannot see bhagavad-virya-coditat. They cannot see. They are seeing simply two mixture and mixed together. It is mixing by certain person, but who is mixing, that they cannot see. But that is bhagavad-virya-coditat. Mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. Prakrti is working, interaction of two chemicals or many chemicals. They are accepting it that the chemicals were already there. But wherefrom the chemicals came? They say that hydrogen and oxygen mixed together, and the water... Now you see the vast water, not only here, but there are so many other oceans, Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean. And not only in this planet, but there are innumerable planets, and innumerable Pacific Oceans are floating in the air. Where you got so much chemical? Who supplied it? If the hydrogen-oxygen is the cause of water, then wherefrom so much chemical came into existence? Of course, they came in existence the same process, as it is stated here. It is coming from the sky, and the sky is generated by bhagavad-virya in the tamo-guna.

So originally everything is coming from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Krsna, simplifying the matter and informing us -- "You fools, you try to understand." Aham sarvasya prabhavah: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin." And Vedanta-sutra says that janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. "Janma adi, from whom, that is Brahman." That is Krsna. Janma, this janma or the creation of this material cosmic manifestation, phenomenal world, who is the cause of janma? The cause is Krsna. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. Then He is the cause of Brahma, devanam, Siva. Padma-palasa-locana, padma, padma-nabha. Therefore Visnu's another name is Padmanabha. Padmanabha, He causes the lotus flower from His navel, and there is Brahma. And then Brahma creates whole universe. The original creator is bhagavad-virya-coditat, not this material. The material, there was no existence of the material. The materials are created by the Supreme Living Being. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). That is to be understood. So the modern theory that the phenomenal world or this cosmic manifestation is due to chemical combination... They have written books, Chemical Evolution. The same example, that a solution of soda bicarb and solution of citric acid, mixed together, there is effervescence. But who is mixing? The mixture is bhagavad-virya-coditat. This is to be understood.

So the creation, beginning of creation, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna. That is to be understood. And the beginning of creation is sabda, the ether and the sky. I think modern science also admits the beginning of creation is sound. There are so many sound theories. Sound and light, they have written so many books, chemical composition. Here also this is... That sound... From the sound, the sky is created, and then air, and then fire, then water, and at last, this land. So in the land there are five perception: rupa, rasa, gandha, sabda, sparsa. Five perception. In the earth you will find the form, and there is taste. You will have some taste. If you taste earth, dirt, you will find some salty taste, because earth containing sixty percent soda. That is chemical analysis. So you will find taste, rasa. And rupa, rasa, sabda you will find also. Any metal you strike together, there will be sabda. Rupa, rasa, gandha. There is smell. You see so many plants are growing, flowers. Wherefrom they are getting this scent? You see? You getting from the earth. The bad smells and good smell, everything is coming from the earth. And where is the chemist that they can take out rose scent from earth? That is not possible. But there is. There is no doubt about it. Otherwise wherefrom the scent is coming? The rose flower, you are smelling so nicely, but where it has got this smell? From the earth. The earth is there. Rupa, rasa, gandha, sabda, and sparsa. Then, in the water, one thing is minus. And then, in the fire, two things are minus. And from the air, three things are minus. And from the sound, four things are minus. Only sound is there. The sound is the original cause of this creation where we are materially bound up.

Because I am spirit soul, I have nothing to do with this material atmosphere. Asango 'yam purusah: "This spirit soul has nothing to do." But on account of his material association by different processes, we have grown this body, material body, and we are now... That is entangled. Just like a fish becomes entangled within the network, similarly, we are, we living entities, we are entangled with the network of this fabrication of this material elements. So very difficult position. Just like the fish caught up in the net of the fisherman, or maya, similarly, we are now caught up within the network created by the material nature. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarva... [Bg. 3.27]. Because we associated the particular type of material modes of nature, then we are now entangled. Like the fish is entangled, similarly, we are also entangled. This material world is supposed to be like a big ocean, bhavarnava. Arnava means ocean, and bhava means the situation where repetition of birth and death takes place. This is called bhavarnava. Anadi karama-phale, padi' bhavarnava-jale. Anadi karma-phale: "Before creation I had my resultant action of my activities, and somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean of bhavarnava, repetition of birth and death." So as the fish, being entangled, he struggles for existence, how to get out of the net... He's not peaceful. You will find. As soon as caught he's up in the net, "Fut! Fut! Fut! Fut! Fut!" He wants to get out. So that is our struggle for existence, how to get out. We do not know.

So to get out of this, only the mercy of Krsna... He can do everything. He can immediately take out from this entanglement. Otherwise how he is Almighty? I cannot get out. The fish cannot get out, but the, if the fisherman wants, he can get him out immediately and throw in the water. Then he gets life again. Similarly, if we surrender to Krsna, He can get out immediately. And He says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah [Bg. 18.66]. You simply surrender. As the fisherman is seeing, "Fut! Fut! Fut!" but if the fish surrenders... He wants to surrender, but he does not know the language. Therefore he remains within the network. But if the fisherman likes, he can take it out and throw in the water. Similarly, if we surrender to Krsna... For that surrendering process this human life is meant. In other life, the fish cannot, but I can. That is the difference between the life of the fish and my life. The fish entangled in the network, he has no power. He is doomed. So doomed, doomed, in this way, by nature's mercy, he gets evolution. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. The living entity is entangled in the network of this material nature. He has to go through nine lakhs' species of this aquatic life. There are nine lakh species of fish in the water. Who knows it? The sastra says. One who has seen. Who has seen how many varieties of fishes are there? But there are many, many varieties. From the sastra we get information of the whale fish, timi. And there is another fish which is called timingila. Timingila means he is so big that he swallows up this timi, whale fish, like a small... (makes gulping sound) Finished. (laughter) They are called timingila. So you have not seen. We have not seen. But the sastra says.

Therefore we have seen because sastra-caksusa. You should see through the sastra. Otherwise what can you see with your tiny eyes? You cannot see, say, three yards more than that. Imperfect. Every senses, all sense, they are imperfect. You cannot see. You are seeing the sun, but what you are seeing? You are seeing just like a disc. But it is fourteen thousand times bigger than this planet. So your this naked sense perception has no value. Don't try to gather knowledge through these naked senses. Try to gather knowledge just like how creation is made. And that is stated here by the authorities, Kapiladeva. And if you take it, then your knowledge is perfect. And if you imagine, "Perhaps there was a chunk, and there was this, there was that" -- all nonsense. At least we, Krsna conscious men, we don't accept this nonsensical proposition. Our knowledge is derived-tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is Vedic injunction. "If you want to know perfectly, if you want to have perfect knowledge," tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva, "you must approach guru." Here is guru, Kapiladeva, or Krsna, God. God is guru, original guru. God gave lessons to Brahma. Brahma gave lessons to Narada. Narada gave lessons to Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva gave lessons to us. This is Vyasadeva's contribution. And if you follow this disciplic succession, then you get perfect knowledge. Otherwise, if you speculate, then you are in darkness, tamasi. What power you have got? All your senses are imperfect. How you can get perfect knowledge? That is not possible. Therefore the injunction is, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "You must go to guru." And who is guru? This parampara system. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2].

So this is the process. If you want perfect knowledge, you must approach guru. And who is guru? Guru means the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Acaryam mam vijaniyan navamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. "Acarya," Krsna says, mam vijaniyat: "he is Myself. I am. Because he is My perfect representative -- he won't speak anything nonsense; he will speak something or everything which he has heard from Me -- therefore he is acarya." Acarya means one who knows the sastra and practically uses in his life, and the same thing, he teaches to his disciple. That is called acarya. Acarya is not a self-made man. No. Acarya means acinoti yah sastrani. One who understand the sastra, the Vedic sastra, and practices in life and teaches the same thing to his student -- that is called acarya. So acaryam mam vijaniyan navamanyeta karhicit, na asuyeta martya-buddhya [SB 11.17.27]. So acarya should not be considered as ordinary man, because he is representative of Krsna. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastraih. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says, "All the sastras..." The sastra is the basic strength, platform. So all the sastra says the acarya: "He is representative of the Supreme Lord." So saksad-dharitvena. Saksat, not indirectly, supposingly. No. Directly, saksat. Saksat means directly. So how he is directly representative? Suppose Krsna appeared five thousand years ago or millions of years ago, because Krsna first spoke to Vivasvan. Imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "This yoga system, I first of all explained to Vivasvan, the sun-god." That means millions and millions of years. Later on, again, He explained. So He says that "That very old thing, again I am explaining to you, Arjuna. There is no change."

So Bhagavad-gita, the lessons of Bhagavad-gita, cannot be changed by the whims of rascals. This is not possible. Aham avyayam. Imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Avyayam. This yoga is avyayam, not that with the change of time, the meaning would be changed. That is not possible. The meaning would remain the same thing. The millions of years ago Krsna said, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. That does not mean that the meaning has changed. "Because it has become old, now I can change." The speaker can say that "When Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah, so Krsna is dead and gone. Now I am incarnation of Krsna. You think of me." This is going on. This rascaldom is going on. "Krsna is now dead and gone. Now I am avatara." Then the answer is: "Then you will be dead and gone, then somebody will come." Just like the meaning of "my head." One child, one boy, was reading "my head," and the teacher is explained, " 'My head' means my head." So the child thought teacher said... When he explained the meaning " 'My head,' it is my head," so the child thought, "The teacher says 'my head.' Therefore 'my head' means teacher's head." (laughter) Another person came: "No, no. It is not teacher head. It is 'my head.' " Then he thought brother's head, then father's head. In this way he became puzzled.

So due to this nonsensical meaning, people are puzzled, that "Whom to surrender? Because Krsna I do not see." No. Krsna is always existing. So you can... Krsna is existing, and to be perceivable by you, Krsna has appeared before you. Here is the arca-murti. The arca-murti we are serving. It is not that... Don't think. Arcye visnau sila-dhih. If you are rascal, they will think that "These people are serving a stone statue." The rascals will think like that, but that is not the fact. Here, practical serving of Krsna. The same acarya has taught that here is Krsna. Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-marjanadau **. Sri-vigraha. This arca-murti, sri-vigraha, aradhanam, you should worship. This is the acarya-pantha. This is the parampara.

So this worship is going on under this parampara system. It is not manufactured. Acaryam mam... What the acarya says, if you follow, then you become perfect. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. If you follow the instruction of acarya, then you understand perfectly everything. Tad viddhi prani... But you have to understand by pranipatena, by submission, not by challenging. If you challenge, then you will never be able to understand. This whole process is submission. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If you are not prepared to submit, then you will never understand. You will remain in this tamas, tamas. Tamasi ma. But don't remain in tamas. Come to the light.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

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Rogues And Rascals Cause War

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.12
Los Angeles, January 9, 1974

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Pradyumna: "Maharaja Pariksit then conquered all parts of the earthly planet -- Bhadrasva, Ketumala, Bharata, the northern portion of Kuru-jangala, Kimpurusa, etc. -- and exacted tributes from their respective rulers."

Prabhupada: So in this verse it is descriptive, different parts of the world. So the important word is here, vijitya jagrhe balim. Balim, I do not know how it is said, "strength." Tax, tributes. The king, the emperor, would conquer a country and levy tax. Must give at least token. Doesn't matter even one pound or one dollar per year, but he must pay something, token. That means he agrees to become subordinate. Just like according to rent act, a poor man must pay something. It may be... In our country it is so... So that the landlord has the claim. Without rent, after some years it becomes his property.

So this conquering of other countries was not like the Napoleon conqueror or Hitler conqueror. No. As it will be evident from the character of Maharaja Pariksit, the idea was to keep the whole world Krsna conscious. If certain countries, certain portion of the world, would not be Krsna conscious, then this king would go and chastise them. Just like Krsna used to kill the demons. There was one Paundraka. Even during Krsna's time, he placed himself as Visnu. He artificially made four hands. So he challenged Krsna that "I am Visnu." So Krsna immediately cut his head. So any imposter, pretender, representing as the incarnation of God or something like that, in those days, the king would not tolerate; immediately would cut his head, what to speak of thieves and rogues. So king's going to other country, conquering, it did not mean that to acquire some possession, land possession. No, that was not the aim.

The aim was... All the fights in Mahabharata or in Ramayana, it was meant for chastising the godless, godless. Just like Ramacandra. Ramacandra, Lord Ramacandra, chastised Ravana. So he went to Lanka -- they call Ceylon -- and crossed the sea by making bridge. But what was the idea? The idea was that "This rascal demon is a godless person; so therefore he must be punished." He was punished not alone. Anyone who joined with him, everyone was punished. But Lord Ramacandra did not occupy the land for His kingdom. He installed his brother Vibhisana, who was a devotee in the place of Ravana. Just like Krsna. Krsna was taking part in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra and inducing Arjuna that "You fight." Arjuna was not willing to fight, but He was inducing to fight.

So what is the purpose? Because the other party represented thieves, rogues, and demons. So Krsna wants therefore that somebody must be king who is His representative, devotee. That is the whole plan.

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham
 [Bg. 4.7]

paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
dharma-samsthapanarthaya...
 [Bg. 4.8]

This is the purpose, dharma-samsthapanarthaya, to establish religious principles. If people become irreligious, then the whole world becomes a hell. Just like at the present moment, anywhere you go, it is hellish condition. Nobody is peaceful, nobody is happy, although materially very much advanced. Political entanglement, social entanglement, religious entanglement, economic entanglement. Simply entanglement. No peaceful living, anywhere. Just like at the present moment, the whole world there is... What is that crisis? Power crisis? Energy crisis. So crisis must be there. Otherwise, if you live peacefully, even within so many crisis, war, and fighting, we are thinking this world is very nice. In spite of all these difficulties. Especially in the Western countries, every ten years there is a war. First World War, Second World War. Before that, Hundred Years War, Seven Years War, Trafalgar's war, Waterloo war. War, war, war. There cannot be any peaceful life, because everyone is rogue and rascal, so there must be war. There must be punishment by nature. As soon as there is overpopulation...

That is Malthus's theory also, that as soon as there is overpopulation, there must be something disturbance, war, pestilence, epidemic, and finished, finished. The extra population, unnecessary. Varna-sankara. They are called varna-sankara. Varna-sankara... Because by nature there must be brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, by nature. That should be organized. Head is head, tail is tail, not that head, tail, everything is one. That is called varna-sankara. Krsna, Arjuna has argued that if the family members... If the woman becomes widow, then there will be varna-sankara population. Varna-sankara population means a population who cannot say who is his father. That is varna-sankara. Or which caste does he belong, what is his father, what is his family. No, nothing, no information. That is called varna-sankara. So when the varna-sankara population increases, then the whole world becomes hell.

So in order to save the world to become hellish, the king was so alert. That is also bhakti. Because the whole natural plan is to come back to home, back to Godhead. This is nature's plan. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. Just like the police department. What is the meaning of police department? Why government spends so much money for police department? Just to keep law and order. There must be. As soon as there is disobedience of law and order, immediately police department must go and punish and arrest. We can experience these things. Similarly, by God's side, there is such department, police department. That is maya, Durgadevi. Durgadevi, you have seen. Most of you might not have seen Durgadevi's picture, with trident, trident in the hand. The asura is being attacked by the trident. So this trident means threefold miseries. You have seen the picture, mother, goddess Durga is piercing the trident just here on the heart. This trident means threefold miseries: adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. I have several times explained: pertaining to the body and mind, pertaining to the other living entities, adhibhautika, adhidaivika, pertaining to the nature's disturbance.

So always we must be disturbed. If everything is all right... Just like in your country, supposing everything is all right. But what is that severe disease? Cancer. Cancer. People are afraid of cancer. Or something else. Must be. You cannot be peaceful here. That is not possible. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. But the foolish rascals, they cannot understand that "I want to live peacefully, happily. Why these things are enforced upon me?" That is consciousness, real consciousness. Nobody wants to die, nobody wants to suffer from disease. Nobody wants to be suffering from any calamity, or nobody wants that there should be fire. Now just see. Especially in America we see, dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, going down, fire brigade. But nobody wanted fire, but the fire brigade is alert because there must be fire somewhere. That is expected. That is expected. And if there is fire, there will be havoc. So nobody wants the havoc, but it takes place. It takes place. This is the nature's law. Because as soon as dharmasya glanir bhavati, tadatmanam srjamy aham. There may not be discrepancies in the process of religious life. That is nature's law.

So what is that religion? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. This is religion, to surrender to God. It doesn't matter what religion you profess. It doesn't matter. But you must learn how to obey the Supreme Lord. That is religion. Religion does not mean that you stamp some stereotype religion, "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Buddhist," and then fight. That is not religion. That is fanaticism. Religion means how one has become devoted to God. That is religion. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. You claim to be religious, or you claim to be Hindu or Christian or Buddhist. That's all right. But do you know what is God? Oh, everyone silent. Everyone, all nonsense rascals, silent. He does not know what is God. And what is his religion? If you do not know what is God, a vague idea, that is not religion. You must know what is God. Just like to become American citizen, it requires to know something of the history of America. So if American citizen, if you ask him, "What you are?" "Now I am American." "Who is your president?" "I do not know." What is this nonsense, American? Would you like to hear from him that "I do not know who is president"? Similarly, a human being professing some certain type of religion, but you ask him, "What is God?" Religion must be in relationship with God, any religion. But ask him, "What is God?" No answer. But religion means,

sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yayatma suprasidati
 [SB 1.2.6]

This is religion, first-class religion. What is that first-class religion? Yato bhaktir adhoksaje, by practicing which one becomes a devotee of the Lord. That is religion. That is religion. So instead of becoming devotee of the Lord, we are devotee of dog. This is our position.

So in order to save the human society from this dangerous condition, without any knowledge of God, without any knowledge of religious principle, there must be some strong king, strong government, to save the people. Because this human life is a chance. Other inferior type of life, animals, birds, beasts, trees, it is not possible. They are also living entities, but human life is developed consciousness. So this is nature's gift, that "Now you try to understand what is God. Now you try to understand what is your relationship with God. Now you practice yourself, how to go back home, back to home, back to..." This is the business of the human society. So unless the king or government looks after it, how people will be advanced? The government is advocating that "You drink, you eat meat, you have prostitution and gambling, and give me tax. Finished. My business is finished." So Pariksit Maharaja was not like that. Pariksit Maharaja is conquered all these places to serve Krsna, to teach Krsna consciousness. Therefore he conquered. Otherwise... That is the business of all devotees.

Yesterday we were speaking of digvijaya. So every devotee should be so sincere to Krsna, or God, that he must execute Krsna's mission. Krsna Himself comes. Krsna comes as devotee. When He came personally, He established His position as God, with all opulences, six opulences. And He asked, through Arjuna, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is Krsna's demand, "You rascal..." Because we are all parts and parcel of Krsna. We are suffering. Manah sasthani indriyani prakrti-sthani karsati. A great struggle for existence within this material world, simply by mental speculation. Manah sasthani indriyani. And then the indriyas are misguided, simply sense gratification, not for controlling the senses. Human life means to control the senses, not to open the senses, naked. This is not human life. So control... That is the distinction between animal and human life. Animal cannot control. The human civilized man must be, must have the capacity to control. That is human civilization. That is called tapasya. Tapasa brahmacaryena yamena damena va [SB 6.1.13]. This is human life. So Pariksit Maharaja, in so many ways... He was king, emperor, not for exploiting the citizen, but to give them real sense, real consciousness, so that they may become happy. And you can read some of the description of the places, we have selected from Mahabharata. Read it, purport.

Pradyumna: "Bhadrasva: It is an island near Meru Parvata. There is a description of this island in Mahabharata, Bhisma-parva, 7.16-18. The description was narrated by Sanjaya to Dhrtarastra. Maharaja Yudhisthira also conquered this island, and thus the province was included within the jurisdiction of his empire. Maharaja Pariksit was formerly declared to be emperor of all the lands ruled by his grandfather, but still he had to establish his supremacy..."

Prabhupada: This island might have changed, the name. Because there are so many islands. Just like the Java(?) island and Laksadvipa island, very small islands. Similarly, this Meru is also another island. Not only these small island, but according to Vedic culture, each planet is called island. Each planet. Just like this planet, earthly planet, is called Jambudvipa. Why it is called dvipa? Dvipa means island. Because actually it is island of the air. Just like there are so many islands in the sea, similarly, this vast air, outer space, and all these planets, are floating like island. Therefore they are called island, dvipa, Jambudvipa. Here in this earthly planet, long, long ago, it is said in the Vedic literatures, sapta-dvipa. Sapta means seven. So this earthly planet is of seven dvipa, seven islands. These two Americas, north and south, they are islands. Africa, one island. And combined Asia and Europe, another island. The two poles, two islands. Australia, another island. You see? Sapta-dvipa. So they say they discovered America. But this discovery was long, long, many, many millions of years, it was known. Where is the discovery? Their poor fund of knowledge. Because they have no knowledge in the Vedic literature, they think, "Now I discovered." Just like a child born, he thinks, "Now I've discovered the world. Before my birth, there was no world." This kind of knowledge called poor fund of knowledge.

Therefore knowledge must be taken from the Vedic literature. Veda means full knowledge. And that full knowledge, when it is properly utilized, then you can understand Krsna. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg. 15.15]. First of all you have to take to take to the Vedic literature for real knowledge. And when you come to the platform of real knowledge, then you can understand Krsna. Before knowing Krsna, you are in darkness. You are in darkness. Because it is said, vedais ca sarvaih. Veda means knowledge. The ultimate goal of knowledge is to understand Krsna. And therefore it is called Vedanta. Vedanta. Veda means knowledge, and anta means the ultimate. Vedanta. Vedanta philosophy. So Vedanta philosophy gives you direction that what is the object of knowledge. Athato brahma jijnasa: "Now object of knowledge is to understand the Supreme, the origin of everything." That is object of knowledge, philosophy. Philosophy means science, anything. Science also trying, "What is the original cause of this creation? What is the original cause of life?" But because andha yathandhair upaniyamanah, the so-called philosophers, scientists, they have been taught by another unscientist, not scientist, so he is also not scientist, not philosopher, because he has been taught by another andha. Just like one blind man leads other blind man. So what he will get, knowledge? So therefore, according to Vedic civilization, it is enjoined, it is ordered, that "If you want to take knowledge," tad-vijnanartham, "to understand the complete science," tad-vijnanartham, "the spirit," sa gurum eva abhigacchet, "oh, you must approach a bona fide guru." Otherwise there is no knowledge. That is not knowledge.

So Vedic knowledge is so perfect that this Bharata-varsa, seven islands. Now the seven islands still there. You cannot make eight or nine, or six. The seven islands are still there. So seven islands means, within seven islands, the two Americas, North and South America, are there. So why it is called Columbus, Columbus discovered? No. It was already in the Vedic literature. You will find in Sankaracarya's... When Columbus discovered America, how many years ago? Two hundred years?

Devotee: Five hundred.

Prabhupada: Five hundred years. And Sankaracarya has described about the seven islands 1,500 years ago. So why the credit should go to Columbus? (laughter) It should go to Sankaracarya. But andha yathandhair upaniyamanah. He says that "I have discovered." So he was talking, perhaps you know this story. He was talking among his friends. So the friends ridiculed another friend. So they were criticizing, "Oh, for nothing you got some credit, that you have discovered America. What you have done? It was already there." So he said, "Yes, that is knowledge. Things are already there, but one who puts it into the forefront of the public, that is credit."

So actually, everything is existing. We have to simply take the knowledge. The modern method is ascending process. The knowledge is there, but still, they are trying to understand it by aroha-pantha, ascending process. It is called inductive knowledge. Inductive knowledge means that... Suppose a man is mortal. So the so-called scientists, they are trying to discover the law, why man is mortal. They are studying, "This man is mortal, this man is mortal, this man is mortal. Therefore it is concluded that all men are mortal. Nobody is immortal." But another man will argue that "You have not studied all the human society. How you can conclude? Therefore we must study." So this study will go on for life after life. They will never come to a person who is immortal. But they will protest that "We cannot accept." But our process is deductive. We say that man is mortal, first of all. Therefore John is a man. He is also mortal. This is deductive process. First of all we accept, man is mortal. The inductive process is that "Why shall I accept man is mortal? I may not have seen a person who is immortal." So that argument can be given.

But we accept this Vedic knowledge, the first premises, accept, accepted. Just like we accept that God is the source of everything. God says, Krsna says, that,

aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
 [Bg. 10.8]

Krsna says, "I am the origin of everything. Everything emanates from Me." Mattah sarvam prava... Sarvam means everything. There are two things: animate and..., what is opposite? Inanimate. There are two things. So Krsna says, aham sarvasya prabhavah: "I am the source of both animate and inanimate." So Krsna. What is Krsna? Krsna is life, supreme life. Krsna is not dead. We are getting Krsna's description. He is not a dead body. These are things very, I mean to say, elaborately described in the Vedic literature. Just like in Vedanta it is said, "The origin of everything is Brahman." Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1], athato brahma jijnasa. Now this origin of everything, what is the formation, animate or inanimate? This is accepted, that Brahman means, the Absolute Truth means, the origin of everything. Now the next question would be that "What is that origin?" The modern scientists, they think the origin is chemicals. But we say, "No. It cannot be chemicals." Janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah [SB 1.1.1]. The origin of everything must be cognizant. He knows everything. Otherwise how He can be origin? It is very logical. Janmady asya yatah anvayat [SB 1.1.1], origin. Just like I have established this institution. I know how it was established perfectly, and how it is going on. And somebody may not know how it was established in New York with so great difficulty. But because I am the origin founder, I know. So similarly, so many things are going on in the nature's way. So the origin, He must know everything. And if He knows, then He cannot be inanimate. Where is the possibility of the origin becoming inanimate? No. Because the argument is, if one is origin of everything, or something he is origin of, he must have sense how things are going on.

So that is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah [SB 1.1.1]. Abhijnah. This word is used. Abhijnah means cognizant. Then if He is the origin of everything, how He got all knowledge perfectly? Therefore the next word is sva-rat: He is fully independent. He doesn't require to take knowledge from anyone else. Otherwise how He can be origin? Sva-rat. Muhyanti yat surayah. That origin is so perfect, and still, surayah, many scholars, many scientists, philosophers, they are also bewildered, that "How He can be a person?" Muhyanti yat surayah. Tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah. These things are described.

So actually, if we want to have knowledge of everything, the source of knowledge is Vedas. And the essence of Veda is called Vedanta. And the descriptive explanation of Vedanta is Srimad-Bhagavatam: bhasyam brahma-sutranam **. Brahma-sutra. Brahma-sutra is the Vedanta philosophy. Krsna has also referred to Brahma-sutra: brahma-sutra-padais caiva hetumadbhir viniscitaih [Bg. 13.5]. He recommends that hetumadbhir prasthana. There are three prasthanas, and Brahma-sutra is also prasthana, the way of understanding. So Krsna has recommended that "If you want to know things with reason and argument, then try to understand Vedanta-sutra." Those who want to know the Absolute Truth through reasoning and argument, then one should study Vedanta-sutra. But Vedanta-sutra... Sutra means codes. Just like they have got code book. One word, it is meaning so many other things. Businessmen, they have got codes. When they send cable to their customer or to their principle, they use some codes. It saves so many words. So Brahma-sutra. Sutra means codes. So in that code also, required explanation. That explanation is Srimad-Bhagavatam. Bhasyam brahma-sutranam **. Brahma-sutranam, the codes explained in the Brahma-sutra, that is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.12 -- Los Angeles, January 9, 1974

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

"Curing The Material Disease"

69/01/09 Lod Angeles, Bhagavad-gita 4.19-25


Prabhupada: Page? Hm? Who will read? You'll read? Yes. Which page?

Devotee: One-hundred-twenty-three.

Devotee: "Transcendental Knowledge." Text number nineteen. "One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge."

Prabhupada: "One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification." The opposite is ignorance. Those who are in knowledge of sense gratification they are devoid of knowledge. Yes. "He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge." "He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge." This is very common thing. Everyone has to act but if he acts in full knowledge then that is perfection of activity.

Just like in our ordinary life if we do business or whatever we do if we are in full knowledge of the state laws and act accordingly, that is perfection of our activities. Go on.

Devotee: Twenty: "Abandoning all attachment to the results of his activities, ever satisfied and independent, he performs no fruitive action, although engaged in all kinds of undertakings."

Prabhupada: Yes. "Abandoning all attachment to the results of the activities." Everyone is aspiring some result of his activity. So the plain example is suppose you are working in an office. So you are not concerned with the result. You have to simply do your duty. The result, the ultimate profit or loss of that establishment is concern for the proprietors or directors. But your duty is that the post which you are occupying, you must do your work very nicely. That's your duty. Without being attached to the result. The result will be enjoyed by the proprietors of that establishment. Go on.

Devotee: Twenty-one: "Such a man of understanding acts with mind and intelligent perfectly controlled, gives up all sense of proprietorship over his possessions and acts only for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he is not affected by sinful reaction."

Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose a man is a manager, a cashier in the bank. He is receiving millions of dollars daily but he does not claim the proprietorship. He is simply handling millions of dollars but he knows that "I am not the proprietor."

Similarly, in our this material activities we may have the chance of handling millions of dollars practically nobody comes here with millions of dollars, neither one goes with millions of dollars. Everyone comes here empty-hand. The child comes empty-hand and the dead body goes empty-hand. So between the birth and death this small duration of life we are supposed to possess so many things. That is our false possession. Actually you don't possess.

Just like so long I am cashier in the bank I am supposed to deal with millions of dollars but that is not my money. In this consciousness, this is Krsna consciousness. To understand everything belongs to Krsna. If one acts in that way that everything... Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. The Isopanisad says everything belongs to God but God has given me chance to handle these things. Therefore my knowledge and intelligence will be there if I utilize for serving God. That is my intelligence. As soon as I utilize them for my sense gratification then I am entrapped. The same example can be given. If the bank cashier thinks, "Oh, so many millions of dollars at my disposal. Let me something and put in my pocket," then he is entrapped. Otherwise you enjoy. You get good salary.

You get good comforts and do your work nicely for Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness. Everything should be considered as Krsna's. Not a farthing mine. That is Krsna conscious. Yes.

Devotee: "He who is satisfied with gain which comes of its own accord, who is free from duality and does not envy, who is steady both in success and failure, who is never entangled although performing actions."

Prabhupada: Yes. Now if I think that I am poor man. Oh, the bank proprietor and directors they have got so much money. The theory of the communist theory. They have tried to attack others that they have snatched our money. Actually one should be satisfied. Just like a bank clerk or a bank cashier should be satisfied with his post and the wages he gets. He should be satisfied. If God pleases he will be elevated to higher position. That is God's grace. But we should not be disturbed. We should be santas... And thus disturbance can be checked only if we are in Krsna consciousness.

You'll be surprised in 1942 there was an artificial famine in India by politicians and practically they were starving. And one American gentleman, very responsible man, he was present. He said that "In our country if such starvation would have happened there would have been revolution." But the Vedic culture is so nice that nobody even stole a pin from others pocket. They starved. Because the culture is they are satisfied. "Well, God has put me in this condition. Why shall I encroach upon other's property?" That is Vedic culture. Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Everything belongs to God. Whatever He has allotted to me, that is my possession. I can... tena tyaktena bhunjitha: "Whatever is allotted to you, be satisfied." Ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam: "You do not encroach upon other's property."

If anyone is satisfied in this way in Krsna consciousness where is the question of stealing? There is no question of stealing. There is no need of law for the thieves. People will become so honest. He will be satisfied.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is all pervading. Either you take socially, politically, religiously, scientifically, philosophically -- any way you take. Just like sandalwood. Sandalwood you rub it on the stone in any way the pulp will be flavored. It is not that if you rub the wood on the stone in this way then the pulp will come flavored. No.

Krsna consciousness is so nice, if you apply it in any field of activities you will see it is perfect. Either you apply in industry or in politics or in sociology or in philosophy or in science. Therefore Bhagavata says that whatever capacity you may have, either you are a scientist or a lawyer or an engineer or a rich man, a capitalist, whatever you may be. Your duty is to utilize your talent for Krsna consciousness. That's all. That is perfection. Yes.

Devotee: Purport: "A Krsna conscious person does not make much endeavor even to maintain his body. He is satisfied with gains which are obtained of their own accord. He neither begs nor borrows but he labors honestly as far as in his own power and is satisfied with whatever is obtained by his own honest labor. A Krsna conscious person is therefore independent in his livelihood. He does not allow anyone's service to hamper his own service to Krsna. However for the service of the Lord He can participate in any kind of action without being disturbed by the duality of the material world. The duality of the material is felt in terms of heat and cold or misery and happiness. A Krsna conscious person is above this duality because he does not hesitate to act in any way for the satisfaction of Krsna. As he does not care for duality therefore he is steady both in success and in failure. These signs are visible when one is full in transcendental knowledge."

Twenty-three: "The work of a man who is unattached to the modes of material nature and who is fully situated in transcendental knowledge merges entirely into transcendence."

Prabhupada: Yes. "The work of a man who is unattached to the modes of material nature." The modes of material nature are three: goodness, passion, and ignorance. Somebody is working in the material world in the quality of goodness. In Vedic culture these divisions are very distinct. Just like brahmanas, sannyasis. They are supposed to be working in goodness because they are simply working for Krsna consciousness or Krsna consciousness, brahmanas business.

The ksatriyas, they are working in the modes of passion. They want to possess land, they want to be king, they want to be leader of the citizens, and they see to the protection of the citizens. This is called in the mode of passion.

And the third degree is the mercantile community. They are engaged in trades, commerce.

In this way the fourth grade of man is the laborer class. They have no capacity either to become brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. They have to take shelter of somebody and must be satisfied with the wages he takes from that.

In this age the Vedic literature says kalau sudra-sambhavah. In this age practically everyone is a sudra, laborer class because everyone is dependent. The brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya, they are not dependent but laborer class, they are dependent. So because this human civilization at the present moment is so made that everyone is dependent. Nobody is self-sufficient. One has to work somewhere for his livelihood.

So in this age practically everyone is dependent or laborer class. Now here it is said that "the work of a man who is unattached to the modes of material nature." Now this division, brahmana, ksatriya vaisya, or the intelligent class, the administrative class, mercantile class and the laborer class. You say in any way. These are material activities. But when you engage yourself in Krsna consciousness, either you are a brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya or sudra, then you are transcendental immediately.

Just like in this body there are different parts and section. The head. Head is one section. The arm, another section. The abdomen, another section. The legs, another section. So the leg is considered to be laborer class carrying me. The hand is working, protecting me. The brain is giving me intelligence. In this way every part is working for the whole body.

Similarly either you become intelligent class of men or you become administrator or you become mercantile class or laborer, if you engage yourself in Krsna consciousness then your position is transcendental. You are no more in the material nature. This is the process of transcendental position. Go on.

Devotee: "To him Brahman, the Supreme is the offering, Brahman is the oblation and the sacrificial fire and by Brahman the sacrifice is performed. By performing action in this way one ultimate attains the supreme."

Purport: "A person who is fully absorbed in Krsna consciousness is sure to attain the spiritual kingdom through his full contribution to spiritual activities for the consummation is absolute and the things offered are also of the same spiritual nature. How activities in Krsna consciousness can lead one ultimately to the spiritual goal is described here. There are various activities in Krsna consciousness. All of them will be described in the following verses. But for the present just the principle of Krsna consciousness is described. The conditioned soul entangled in material contamination is sure to act in the material atmosphere and yet he has to get out of such an environment. The process by which the conditioned soul can get out of the material atmosphere is Krsna consciousness. For example, a person who is suffering from a disorder of the bowels..."

Prabhupada: "A patient. A patient. A patient who is suffering."

Devotee: Oh. "For example, a patient who is suffering from a disorder of the bowels due to overindulgence in milk products is cured by another milk product, curd. Similarly, the materially absorbed conditioned soul can be cured by Krsna consciousness as is prescribed here in the Bhagavad-gita."

Prabhupada: Yes. It is a very good example. Sometimes... In India of course, out of our greediness we take too much milk products -- khir and sweet rice and burfi, pranal[?], so many. So if you take too much milk then there is possibility of dysentery, disorder of the bowel. Ghee. Therefore when you go the physician he will give you some medicine and he will ask you to take this medicine with yogurt. Now what is this yogurt? This yogurt is also milk preparation. Now you can doubt how is that? My disorder of bowel is due to taking too much milk preparation. How it will be cured by yogurt? So this is the way. The yogurt is a, although milk preparation, it's action is different.

Similarly, you will find that these boys and girls acting in Krsna consciousness, what they are doing? They have rented a nice house which is called temple. They are cooking there, eating there, dancing and singing. The outsider they will say, "What is this Krsna consciousness? They are living in the nice house and they are eating very nicely, dancing, singing. What is the difference? We also do that. We go to the club and eat very nicely and dance also. What is the difference?" There is the difference. What is that difference? The one milk preparation causes disorder, another milk preparation cures. This is practical. Another milk preparation cures you.

If you go on dancing in the club and eating in the club gradually you become diseased materially. And the same dancing and same eating here you become spiritually advanced. So nothing has to be stopped. Simply it has to be changed by the direction of an expert physician. That's all. The expert physician gives you yogurt mixed with some medicine. Actually medicine is just to bluff the patient. Actually the yogurt will act.

So similarly we have to do everything but because it is mixed up with that medicine of Krsna consciousness it will cure your material disease. That is the process. Because it is mixed up with some medicine which is called Krsna consciousness therefore your dancing, your eating, your loving affairs -- all, whatever you want there is but it is well-treated. It will not entangle you. It will give more and more enlightenment of spiritual understanding. This is Krsna consciousness. Yes.

Devotee: This process is generally known as yajna or activities simply meant for the satisfaction of Visnu or Krsna. Therefore the more the activities of the material world are performed in Krsna consciousness or for Visnu only, the more the atmosphere becomes spiritualized by complete absorption. Brahman means spiritual. The Lord is spiritual and the rays of His transcendental body are called brahmajyoti, His spiritual effulgence. Everything that exists is situated in that brahmajyoti. And when the jyoti is covered by the illusion of maya or sense gratification it is called material."

Prabhupada: Now, this is the difference between material and spiritual. Try to understand. Just like in the sunshine there is cloud. That cloudy atmosphere is not very good. But when there is bright sunshine you say, congratulate your friend, "Oh, today is very nice day." The sunshine is always there. The cloud also is an interaction of the sunshine. The cloud is nothing but due to excessive heat it absorbs water from the sea or anywhere else and it becomes gas and it stands in the sunshine. But it does not cover all the sunshine.

Similarly Krsna consciousness is the original consciousness. As soon as it is clouded by material consciousness. What is that material consciousness? That "It is mine. It is for my sense gratification. That is material consciousness." And if you keep yourself always intact that everything is for Krsna, then there is no cloud. The cloud is material. Actually there is no material existence. Just like cloud appears in the sky. It remains temporary for a few day or few hours and again disappears. We do not know where that cloud has gone.

Similarly, material consciousness is the covering of the spirit soul. So as soon as this covering is taken away the bright sunshine is there, the cloud. As soon as the cloud is gone the bright sunshine is there. Then everything is sunshine, light. Similarly, as soon as this consciousness, material consciousness that everything belongs for my satisfaction, sense gratification, that is material. And if you are in Krsna consciousness that is spiritual. The things does not change. Simply the consciousness changes. Just like the sunshine does not change. Simply the cloud changes. It appears and disappears. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. So if you keep yourself always in bright sunshine. Just like if you go above the cloud as you have experience by plane journey that you go above the cloud and there you will find simply sunshine, no more cloud, no more cloud. So just keep yourself in Krsna consciousness and this cloud of material existence will disappear or you will be above, even you can see them, that will not affect you. This is the process. Go on.

Devotee: "This material feature can be removed at once by Krsna consciousness. Wherein the offering for the cause of Krsna consciousness the consuming agent of such an offering or contribution, the process of consumption, the contributor, and the result of such activities are all combined together Brahman or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth covered by maya is called matter. Matter dovetailed for the cause of the Absolute Truth regains its spiritual quality. Krsna consciousness is a process of converting the illusory consciousness into Brahman or the Supreme. When the mind is fully absorbed in such Krsna consciousness it is said to be in samadhi or trance. Anything done in such transcendental consciousness is called yajna or sacrifice for the absolute and in that condition of spiritual consciousness the contributor, the contribution, the consumption, the performer or leader of the performance, and the results or ultimate gain, everything becomes one in the Absolute, the Supreme Brahman. That is the explanation of Krsna consciousness."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: Twenty-five.

Prabhupada: Go on.

Devotee: "Some yogis perfectly worship the demigods by offering different sacrifices to them and some of them offer sacrifices in the fire of the Supreme Brahman."

Purport: "As described above, a person engaged in discharging duties in Krsna consciousness is also called a perfect yogi or a first-class mystic. But there are others also who perform similar sacrifices in the worship of demigods, and still others who sacrifice to the Supreme Brahman, or the impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord. So there are different kinds of sacrifices in terms of different categories. Such different categories of sacrifice by different types of performers only superficially demark varieties of sacrifice. Factual sacrifice means to satisfy the Supreme Lord, Visnu and is also known as yajna."

Prabhupada: Just like a small example. Now you are paying some tax in the waterworks department. So this waterworks department or the director of the waterworks department may be considered as a demigod. But the money you sacrifice for payment in the waterworks department, that goes to the government. The waterworks department or the man in charge, director of the waterworks department does not consume that.

Similarly in the Vedic rituals there are many sacrificial ritualistic ceremony, demigods, but in that sacrifice there is Visnu also. Therefore Visnu is called Yajnesvara, the master of the sacrifice. The demigods cannot accept the result of the sacrifice. Visnu is there. Of course, we have no experience of these performances. That is a Vedic ritual performance. Actually the demigods, they cannot accept anything from you. But the sacrificer, he approaches a demigod for quick result for material benefit and these things will be explained in the Eighth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita.

So this is the process. Ultimately it goes to the Absolute Truth. So those who are intelligent, they directly makes connection with the Absolute Person or the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna. Then everything is automatically done. Go on.

Devotee: "All the different varieties of sacrifice can be placed within two primary divisions: sacrifice of worldly possessions and sacrifice in pursuit of transcendental knowledge. Those who are in Krsna consciousness sacrifice all material possessions for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, while others, who want some temporary material happiness sacrifice their material possessions to satisfy demigods such as Indra, the sun, etc. And others who are impersonalists sacrifice in the sense of merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman. The demigods are powerful living entities appointed by the Supreme Lord for the maintenance and supervision of all material functions like heating, watering, and lighting of the universe. Those who are interested in such supplies of material benefits worship the demigods by various sacrifices according to the Vedic rituals. They are called bahv-isvara-vadi, or believers in many gods."

Prabhupada: Bahv-isvara-vadi. Bahv-isvara-vadi means believing in many gods. Actually God is one but His servants who are known as demigods. So less intelligent class of men they accept demigods as God. Just like a less intelligent class of men takes a police constable, he raises his hand like this and the car is stopped even it belong to a great rich man. So his child may think that "This constable is very great man. You see. He is very important man." But the father knows he is nothing. Similarly, those who are interested in demigods they are like children. "Oh, this constable is very important." You see. "Because by his hand my father had to stop my car." You see.

So the antavat tu phalam tesam [Bg. 7.23]. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find there is a statement, kamais tais tair hrta-jnana yajanti anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. "Those who go to worship the demigods they have lost their intelligence on account of too much lusty propensity."

Just like sometimes a person goes to bribe the policeman, constable, because he is illegal. But if you become, I mean to say, true to your state laws you haven't got to bribe the constable or this officer, that officer. You see.

So you be true Krsna conscious. Then there will be no disturbance from these demigods. But less intelligent class of men in order to save themself from the disturbance of the demigods -- there are many varieties of demigods -- they go to this, to that, to this, to that. But an intelligent man... That is also stated. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] "One who is perfectly intelligent, after many many births of culturing knowledge he comes to Me and surrenders." Yes. Vasudevah sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "O Krsna, you are everything." That is the highest intelligence. So Caitanya-caritamrta says krsna ye bhaje sei vara catura: "Anyone who is engaged in Krsna consciousness is very intelligent man." Very intelligent man. Krsna ye bhaje sei vara catura. Catura means intelligent. Go on.

Devotee: "Whereas others who stick to the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth and regard the forms of the demigods as temporary sacrifice their individual selves in the supreme fire and thus end their individual existences by merging into the existence of the Supreme. Such impersonalists relinquish their time in philosophical speculation for understanding the transcendental nature of the Supreme. In other words, the fruitive workers sacrifice their material possessions for material enjoyments whereas the impersonalist sacrifices his material designations with a view to merging into the existence of the Supreme. For the impersonalist the fire, altar, and the sacrifice is the Supreme Brahman and the offering is the self being consumed by the fire of Brahman. The Krsna conscious person, however, sacrifices everything for the satisfaction of Krsna and as such all his material possessions as well as his own self, everything, are sacrificed for Krsna as with Arjuna. Thus he is the first-class yogi for he does not lose his individual existence."

Prabhupada: That's it. Question? Yes?

Devotee: (indistinct) eternally individual, so how do the impersonalists [?] attaining their goal merge into the impersonal brahmajyoti?

Prabhupada: That is their sign of less intelligence. Therefore we call the impersonalist as less intelligent. Just like the same example, the child is thinking that the constable is very important man. Similarly, the impersonalists are less intelligent in this sense, that what is this brahmajyoti? The brahmajyoti is combination of atomic spiritual sparks. Just like sunshine is combination of molecular shining particles. This is scientific. Anything you take, either take sunshine or fire or water, you'll find atomic, even earth, they are all atomic, small, very small parts. Similarly, the brahmajyoti is combination of the atomic spiritual sparks who are individual living entities.

So they may merge into that existence of brahmajyoti but because every individual living entity has got individual desires, therefore they cannot exist very long in that individual condition, I mean to say, impersonal condition. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. Any person who is thinking that by merging, or one who has already merged into the brahmajyoti, he has become liberated. Bhagavata says that is not intelligence, what to speak of liberation. He says ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. Vimukta-maninah means he is simply falsely thinking that he is liberated. Maninah. Just like you think yourself, just like so many rascals, he is thinking, "I am God," you see. "I am God."

So this is only thinking. Actually they do not know what is God. Otherwise they would not have dared to say that "I am God." They do not know the meaning of God. You see. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are thinking, "I am merged into the..." Just like the rabbit. The rabbit when he is faced with some enemy he closes his eyes. He thinks, "Now I am safe." (laughter) The rascal animal thinks that he is safe now. "I cannot see the enemy."

Just like a child. When there is something fearful the child, it is nature, closes the eyes. I have practical experience. When I was young man I went to the zoo with my little son and as soon as there was a tiger cage, oh, the child closed the eyes. Yes. He could not bear the vicious sight. This is natural.

Similarly, these impersonalists they are closing their eyes. That's all. Just like voidists, they are also doing that. "Now I have become free by smoking or by ganja eating, drinking, or smoking." You see? These things are simply false imagination. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are not intelligent. Bhagavata says ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. They are self-complacent that "I have become free, liberated," this and that. But actually their intelligence is very contaminated.

Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. They are simply thinking like that. Maninah. Maninah means actually he is not, but he's thinking. You can think that "I am the proprietor of all the banks of this Los Angeles city." You can think. Who checks you? But are you actually the proprietor of all the banks of this Los Angeles city? Anyone can think intoxication like anything. He has got the liberty. But that is not the fact.

So ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. Their intelligence is contaminated because they have no information of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So long one does not reach to that point, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], "Oh, Krsna is everything." It can take some time but unless you reach to that point your all intelligence is imperfect. Your knowledge is imperfect. That you must know. Therefore one who takes Krsna, he is most intelligent. Tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah, aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah [SB 10.2.32].

Just like these foolish men, they are going very high on sputniks and other machine but they cannot find out the shelter and come back. You see. But they are thinking, "Oh, we are so much advanced in science. We go so high." You go high, what is your result? You come back again. They will be puffed up. "Yes, it will be perfect in so many years, in this way and that way." They will never accept defeat. But actually you see they go and come back, that's all.

Similarly these foolish persons who are thinking that "I shall merge into the brahmajyoti," they are less intelligent because they cannot exist there. He has got inclination, desires. There is no facility for fulfilling your desires unless you go to Krsna. Therefore in order to fulfill the desires he'll come again to this material world. Because he wants activities, pleasure. Ananda-mayo 'bhyasat. The spirit soul and the Supreme Lord is by nature joyful. Whenever there is question of joyfulness there must be varieties. So there is no variety. So without variety he cannot remain therefore very long. He has to come. But because he has no information of the spiritual varieties he is bound to come back to this material variety. That's all. So therefore their intelligence is less. They are not very high class men. Yes. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.19-25 -- Los Angeles, January 9, 1969