Well Centered Nationalism

28 Dec 1969, Boston

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Prabhupada: ...for your participating with us in this Krsna consciousness movement. I understand that your, this society is known as International Student Society? Yes. There are many other international societies. There are international United Nations also. The idea is very nice, but we should try to understand -- internationally or universally -- what is the central idea. Just like if you throw a stone in the middle of water, it expands. It becomes, the circle expands, and the circle goes to the limit of the bank of the water. That is the way. The vibration, sound vibration also, radio message also. Similarly, the circle increases and you capture the waves and you understand. Similarly, international feeling can be extended also. In the beginning of our life, just like a child, anna-brahman: everything he wants to eat. A small child, whatever he captures he wants to eat. Personal interest. Then, when the child grows, he tries to participate with his other brothers and sisters: "All right. You also take little." This is increasing the feeling of fellowship. Then he grows again, he feels for his father, parents, society, then community, country, and at last, international. Expansion. But in such feelings, unless the center is right, that expansion of feeling, universally or internationally or nationally even, that is not perfect. That is not perfect. Take, for example, internationally. In your country, what is the meaning of national? National means one who has taken birth in that particular country. Is that all right? National? You feel for another American because he is born in this country. Or any other country, Indian. That national feeling, that is called national feeling. You feel for your countrymen. You sacrifice your life for your country. But there is defect. What is that defect? If this is the definition -- that a living entity or a person born in that country, he is a national -- then why not the animals? They are also born in that country. But we are not expanding our feelings beyond this human society. We don't think animals are national assets. Animals are sent to the slaughterhouse. So this is because the center of national feeling or international feeling is losing. The center is not fixed up. If the center is right, then you can make circle from that center, any number of circles, they'll never overlap. They'll be growing, growing, growing. They'll not interact with one another if the center is all right.

So everyone is feeling nationally or internationally, but the center is missing. Therefore your feeling, your international feeling, my international feeling, your national feeling, my national feeling, they are overlapping. So we have to find out the center. Then you expand your circle, it will not, I mean to say, overlap or counteract. It will go on. That center is Krsna. Our society, International Society for Krsna Consciousness, is teaching to the people of all countries that the center is Krsna. You try to think from the central point of Krsna. That Krsna philosophy is the Bhagavad-gita. I take it for granted that many of you have studied Bhagavad-gita. In the Seventh Chapter there is a nice verse that,

bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan mam prapadyate
vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma su-durlabhah
 [Bg. 7.19]

You have heard the word mahatma. That is a Sanskrit word, or Indian word, which is applied to a person whose mind is expanded, whose feelings, the circle of his feelings, is very expanded. He is called mahatma. Maha means big or great, and atma, atma means soul. Who has expanded his soul very wide, he is called mahatma. So this Bhagavad-gita gives the definition of the person who has expanded his feeling very wide. Who is that? It is said there, bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. We are trying to expand our feeling socially, communally or nationally or internationally or universally or some way or other. This is going on. We try to do it. That is our natural function, especially in the human form of life -- expanded consciousness, broader consciousness. We try, we try to do some service to the whole humanity, to society, to the country. That is expanded consciousness. But Bhagavad-gita says that bahunam janmanam ante. Bahu means many, and janma means birth. Bahunam janmanam ante: at the end of. At the end of many, many births. Perhaps you know that we believe the theory -- not theory, the fact -- of transmigration of soul. We are changing bodies one after another. There are 8,400,000's of different species of life, and we are evolving. And at last we come to this form, human form of life. This is also called bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births. Labdhva su-durlabham idam bahu-sambhavante.

In the Bhagavata there is a verse. It is said there, labdhva su-durlabham idam. Idam. Idam means "this." This body, labdhva, you have got it. Labdhva su-durlabham idam. Su-durlabham means it is very rare. This is not very cheap. The body of cats and dogs or animals, they are cheap, but this is not very cheap. Su-durlabhah. Bahunam janman... Labdhva su-durlabham idam bahu-sambha-vante. After many, many births, at least, 8,000,000 births of different species of life, we get this human form of life. It is stated in the Bhagavata, and similarly, all Vedic literatures, they corroborate one another. It is... The person who can understand, he doesn't find any contradiction. The same statement is there in the Bhagavad-gita: bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. So this human form of life is obtained after many, many births of lower animal or other than human form of life. But even in this human form of life also, if one is cultivating that knowledge to find out the central point, what is the central point, then that also requires he gets many, many births in human form of life also. But he has to find out that central point. That central point is there, Krsna is saying, that bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan [Bg. 7.19]. Jnanavan means who has actually acquired knowledge. Jnanavan. Jnana means knowledge, and van means one who possesses. One who possesses actual knowledge, after... We are cultivating knowledge. If we are actually cultivating knowledge, spiritual knowledge, not in one life but many many lives, then when we actually become on the highest platform of knowledge, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan, then Krsna says, mam prapadyate: "He comes and surrenders unto Me, Krsna," or God. When I speak "Krsna," "Krsna" means the Supreme Lord, the all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead. So bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Surrenders. Why? Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah. This word mahatma is there, because after cultivating knowledge many, many births, he has expanded himself to be very great. God is great, and His devotee who expands up to the point of God, he is also called great. His atma is also great. Mahatma. But He says, sa mahatma su-durlabhah. That sort of mahatma, or great soul, is very rare to be seen. Su-durlabhah. Su-durlabhah. Su means very, and durlabhah means rare. Very rare.

So this is the definition we get from Bhagavad-gita, that we are expanding our feelings of love, different types of love -- love of the country, love of the nation, love of the society, love of the community, love of the family, or love of the cats and dogs. Love is there. Love is there, but we are expanding it according to our expansion of perfect knowledge. That perfect knowledge comes to exist when we come to the point of loving Krsna. That is perfection. Sa mahatma su-durlabhah. But it is very difficult to find out such person who has developed love of Krsna. But that is the aim of life. That is the aim of all activities. Similarly, in the Bhagavata, there is another verse. It is said that,

dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
 [SB 1.2.8]

It is said that you are doing your duty according to your position. Everyone is doing. Svanusthitah dharmah. Dharma means occupational duties. Everyone has got duty. A student has a duty, or a householder has got some duty, a sannyasi has got some duty, a brahmacari has got duty. So there are different types of duties according to different occupation or profession. But Bhagavata says that you can perform your duties very nicely, very accurately, but if by performing your duties you do not come to the understanding of Krsna, or God, then whatever you have done very nicely, srama eva hi kevalam: it is simply laboring. Simply laboring. But if you want to perfection, come to the point of perfection, then that is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, as I said, that bahunam janmanam, after discharging duties very nicely, very accurately, very faithfully, if one comes to the point that vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], then you should understand that your feelings of love or international feeling or national feeling has actually expanded. That is expanded.(?) That is real national feeling.

And what is the symptom? A man says, "Yes, I have expanded very widely my feelings of love." No. There are some symptoms how you are feeling, how you are... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that panditah sama-darsinah. Pandita means learned. Sama-darsinah.

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
 [Bg. 5.18]

A pandita, if one has actually elevated to that stage of perfect wisdom, then he is sama-darsinah, that actually sama... How sama-darsinah? Vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane. A brahmana, according to Vedic culture, a brahmana is considered... Brahmana means vidya-vinaya-sampanne. He is very gentle and very learned. That is the first qualification of brahmana. Not by birth but by qualification. Gentle and learned. Vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi, brahmane gavi hastini, panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Because his vision is no more on the platform of this body. Sama-darsinah. He sees a learned brahmana is also a spirit soul, and a dog is also a spirit soul, an elephant is also a spirit soul, or a low-born man, he is also spirit soul. Beginning from the high-born brahmana up to the candala, there are social stages in the human society. But if a man is really learned, he sees everyone, every living entity, on the same level. That is the stage of learning.

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca...
 [Bg. 5.18]

Sva-pak means the dog-eaters. In India there are many types of flesh eaters. Not higher caste, amongst the lower grade. But anyone who eats the flesh of dog, he is called candala, lowest of the mankind. But here Bhagavad-gita says even if he is candala, the panditah, he sees equally like the brahmana because he sees the spirit soul.

So our point is that if we actually want to expand this international feeling, then we must find out the real center. That center is Krsna. Krsna, or God, I have already explained. Krsna said in the Bhagavad-gita... You'll please always remember that this Krsna consciousness movement means placing Bhagavad-gita as it is. Whatever I am speaking, it is there in the Bhagavad-gita. Unfortunately, Bhagavad-gita has been misinterpreted by so many commentators that people have misunderstood the Bhagavad-gita. Actually, Bhagavad-gita means to develop Krsna consciousness, and we are trying to do that. So in that Bhagavad-gita, as Krsna has given the definition of mahatma, broadminded... So what is that broadminded? He says next verse, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Mahatma, who is actually wise and broadminded, he is no more within the spell of this material energy. He is under the shelter or protection of spiritual energy. Everything, just try to understand. Whatever we are seeing, they are different energies of God. Parasya brahmana saktir..., akhilam jagat. Whatever we are experiencing, they are all different energies of the Supreme Lord, parasya saktir. In the Vedic literature, Upanisad, it is said, parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. The Supreme Absolute Truth has many varieties of energies. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate, svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. And the energies are acting so nicely that it appears that it is being automatically, nicely done. Just like a flower is (blooming). The energy of God is acting there, but we are seeing that it has automatically become so beautiful and blooming. No. That is energy. That is the vision how we can see God. How we can see Krsna? In the Fourth Chapter you'll find, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: [Bg. 7.8] "My dear Kaunteya, Arjuna, you, if you try to understand Me, if you want to make your soul broader to understand Me, try to understand Me -- raso 'ham apsu kaunteya -- I am the taste, the sweet taste in the water." So every day we are drinking water. There is nobody here who does not drink water. So when you drink water and you feel satisfaction, that satisfaction is Krsna. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh. Nobody can escape seeing the light of the sun, of the moon. Sasi, sasi means moon. Surya means sun. So Krsna says, "That illumination is I am."

So there is so many list of understanding that God consciousness, Krsna consciousness. So when one is fully cognizant of the energies of the Lord, how they are acting... And we have to practice. We take lesson from Bhagavad-gita and we practice. You will be able to understand. Then after bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19], when you become mature,  vasudevah sarvam iti, "Oh, Vasudeva is everything," then you surrender. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That person, who has widened his soul in that way, he is very rare to be seen. And what are the functions of such mahatma? Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Mahatma, one who is so broadminded, he is not crooked to be under the spell of this material energy. He is under the protection of the spiritual energy, daivi prakrti. Prakrti means nature. This nature is called the material energy. And there is another, spiritual energy. These things are all explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Apareyam. These are apara. Apara means inferior energies, material energy. Itas tu viddhi me prakrtim para. Beyond this inferior energy, there is another, spiritual energy. There are so many verses you'll find in the Bhagavad-gita.

So our propagation is to present Bhagavad-gita as it is, without any nonsensical commentation. There is no need of nonsensical commentation. Bhagavad-gita is as clear as the sunlight. As you do not require to see the sun with another lamp, similarly, you do not (chuckling) require to study Bhagavad-gita with another commentation of a common man who has no knowledge. Bhagavad-gita as it is, you should study. Then you will get all this knowledge. Bahunam janmanam ante: [Bg. 7.19] you become wise and you can understand Krsna. Then you surrender. Then you become mahatma. And what is the function of mahatma? Mahatma is under the protection of spiritual energy. And what is the symptom of that protection of spiritual energy? That is also stated,

mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim asritah
bhajanty ananya-manaso...
 [Bg. 9.13]

He is always engaged in devotional service of Krsna. That is the only symptom. That is mahatma.

mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim asritah
bhajanty ananya-manaso
jnatva bhutadim avyayam
 [Bg. 9.13]

Does he follow this devotional service blindly? No. Jnatva. Jnatva means "knowing perfectly that I am the source of everything." Aham sarvasya prabhavah: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the source of everything." So these things are there in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is. It is not possible to explain all the verses. But our request is that this Krsna consciousness movement is to spread the knowledge depicted in the Bhagavad-gita as it is, without any nonsensical commentation. Then the human society will profit by it. They are actually not in sound condition of living atmosphere, but if they understand Bhagavad-gita and if they actually expand their broader outlook, then these questions of social, national, international, all will be automatically solved. There will be no difficulty. And without finding out the center, if we manufacture our own ways... Not to speak of any individual persons, the different nations of the whole world, they are trying to be united. And in your country there is United Nations organization. Unfortunately, instead of becoming one, the flags are increasing. Daily you pass, you'll see another flag is there. Just like in our India, there was one Hindustan. Now (chuckling) there has become another, Pakistan. And sometimes there will be Sikhistan and there will be some-stan. So instead of becoming united, we are being disunited because we are missing the center.

So my request is that you are all international students, you try to find out the center of any international movement. That international movement does not mean that "My brother is international and I am international. All others, they are nothing." Not like that. Actually, you try to feel internationally. That international feeling will be possible when you find out the center, Krsna, as it is in the Bhagavad-gita. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. When you actually understand Krsna, the Krsna philosophy, that will be perfect. And Krsna says, in the Thirteenth Chapter, you'll find,

sarva-yonisu kaunteya
sambhavanti murtayah yah
tasam mahad yoni brahma
aham bija-pradah (pita)
 [Bg. 14.4]

He is claiming that "I am the father of all forms of life." Sarva-yonisu, "all species of life." "The material nature is the mother, and I am the seed-giving father." Just like without father and mother nobody can appear, similarly, in this material world, whoever has come, every one of us, beginning from Brahma down to the ant, everyone, the mother is the material nature. The mother supplies this body. So our, this body is material; therefore it is the gift of the material mother, material nature. But I, the spirit soul, that I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord Krsna. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So if you try to wide your feelings of internationality, please try to understand Bhagavad-gita. You'll be getting enlightenment, you'll understand what is international feeling. Sarva-yonisu. Sarva-yonisu means then you will feel international even for the cats and dogs and animals and reptiles. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam... These people are manufacturing communism, but in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventh Canto, we'll find a statement given by Narada Muni that if in your house there is a snake even, you should give him something to eat. Just see how the feeling. Even there is a snake, what to speak of other animals.

So these feelings will be enlightened. We cannot be enlightened unless we come to the real point of God, or Krsna. So we are preaching this Krsna consciousness or God consciousness. It is not a new movement, because as I told you that this is based on the principles of Bhagavad-gita, and Bhagavad-gita is not new. At least from historical point of view, it is five thousand years old. And beyond history, pre -- history, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita in the Fourth Chapter, it is said, Krsna said,

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave prahur
manur iksvakave 'bravit
 [Bg. 4.1]

That means "I first of all spoke to the sun-god." Now if you take that duration, it will be some millions of years before it was spoken. These things are stated in the Bhagavad-gita. So apart from that statement, from historical point of view, since the days of Mahabharata, yes, Battle of Kuruksetra... Bhagavad-gita was spoken in the Battle of Kuruksetra. From historical point of view, it is five thousand years old. So this Bhagavad-gita teaching is coming from, at least, from five thousand, since five thousand years. So it is older than any other scripture in the world. So you try to understand as it is, without any unnecessary commentary. You do not... There is no use of commentary. The words are sufficient to give you enlightenment, but unfortunately, people take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gita, and they try to impress under the shelter of Bhagavad-gita their own philosophy or own idea. That is useless. You try to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is; then you will get this entitlement, enlightenment, that Krsna is the center of all activities. And if you become Krsna conscious, then everything will be perfect, all problems will be solved. Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. These things are there, and actually, they are happening. Our students are feeling, they are actually doing that. So we shall request you to read this Bhagavad-gita As It Is, so your feelings of international spirit will be perfect and you'll be happy, and wherever you preach this cult, they will be also happy. And that will be very nice thing.

Thank you very much. [break] If there you have any question you can ask. Yes?

 

Guest: Could you discuss the various levels on the way to bliss consciousness? What happens to the body and the mind as one approaches bliss consciousness?

Prabhupada: What is that question?

Satsvarupa: What are the different levels that you go through on the way to getting bliss consciousness. What happens to the body? What happens to the mind?

Prabhupada: We are acting not singly, simply with mind or simply... Pranair arthair dhiya vaca. Kaya-mana-vakya. Whatever we do, we do with our body, mind and words. But this consciousness means if you put your mind in Krsna, then your words and body also become Krsnized. Sa vai manah krsna-padaravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. There was a nice king, Maharaja Ambarisa. He was great king. He had to administer a great kingdom, whole world. But he was a great devotee also, although he was very busy. Because it is said, sa vai manah. Manah means mind. Sa vai manah krsna-padaravindayor. He always kept his mind in the lotus feet of Krsna. Vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane. And therefore his mind was always dedicated to the lotus feet of Krsna. He could not speak anything but Krsna consciousness. Vacamsi vaikuntha-guna. So the whole process of Krsna consciousness is transferring the business from matter to spirit, or Krsna. There is a nice definition how to execute Krsna consciousness in the Narada-pancaratra. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If we become freed from all these designations... "I am American," this is a designation. "I am Indian," this is a designation. I am not Indian, you are not American. We are all parts and parcel of the Supreme. This is only dress. It does not mean because I am in this saffron colored dress and you are in black coat or green coat, there is difference between you and me. We are all human beings. Similarly, we have to understand that this body is our dress only. Because we have got a different dress, a black dress or white dress or Indian dress or American dress, that does not mean we are different. When we can feel in that way, when we are trained in that way, that is called sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. He is freed from all designations. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam. That time he becomes purified, nirmalam. So long I have got identification that "I am this," "I am that," "I am that..." Simply when I shall understand that "I am part and parcel of God," that means, that status of mind is called nirmalam, without any contamination. And when you are in that status of life... That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita. This is called brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Brahma-bhutah means self-realization. And the symptom will be prasannatma, joyfulness, without any anxiety.

So there are stages. One has to learn this from authoritative sources. Then it is possible to become... But our movement, this chanting Hare Krsna mantra, is so nice that what was possible after many, many births, you can get it within a few weeks. That is a fact. If you chant Hare Krsna mantra as we are doing, then you'll understand. Very quickly your self-realization, your freedom from designation, your mental concoction, everything will be cleared off, and there will be no more anxiety. So we request everyone. We are not charging anything. We are not saying that "I shall give you some mantra. You pay me fifty dollars and it is private." No. It is open, without any charge. Anyone can. These boys, American boys and girls, they are chanting. Similarly, you can also chant. There is none Indian, but they are nicely chanting Hare Krsna. You can also chant. There is no fee. You just make an experiment on how you become free from this designation. So our request is that everything will be complete if you take to this chanting: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. And there is no very strict rules, regulation. You can chant anywhere, either in this room or outside the room or on the road, street, bus. Wherever you find opportunity, you chant simply Hare Krsna and see the result.

So this is a process of purification. When we actually purify our, this material contamination and designation, we, I mean to say, raised, we are promoted to the actual spiritual life. And then, at that time, we shall feel happy and our consciousness will be broader, and everything will be all right.

Indian man: I don't know the equivalent verse in Sanskrit from the Gita, but somewhere it says that..., Krsna says, "All roads lead to Me. No matter what one does, no matter what one thinks, no matter what one is involved with, eventually he's evolving towards Me," this Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes, that's nice, but...

Indian man: In this evolution, is it a natural evolution that you can teach people, you can guide people, you can show them the path, but the actual progress that one would make towards the supreme knowledge, is that a natural evolution or is it...? Can that be influenced by external teaching?

Prabhupada: No. There is natural, of course...

Indian man: But no one person having no control on it. One may get there sooner than the other, but in reality there may not be any control that one really has on this...

Prabhupada: No, it requires, it requires. Otherwise why Krsna is teaching? Why Krsna's teaching is required?

Indian man: Krsna, in the Gita it says the student comes to the teacher.

Prabhupada: If it is natural, then why it was needed that Krsna would teach Arjuna? It is not natural. You have to select by getting knowledge from superior person. Otherwise there is no meaning of teaching, Krsna's to Arjuna. Arjuna was perplexed. He could not understand whether he should fight or not. So that is the position of everyone. Everyone is perplexed. He requires a guidance like Krsna. Then you can find out the... It is not natural. Natural means up to the animal life it is natural. Then come to the human form of life. Then it is discretion. As you like, you make your choice. If you like Krsna, you can go to Krsna. If you like something else, you can go there. That is your discretion. Everyone has got independence, little independence. Krsna says at the end of Bhagavad-gita, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Just you surrender unto Me, giving up everything." If it is natural, then why He should say, "You should do this"? It is not natural. One has to learn it. Therefore he requires a spiritual master like Krsna or His representative. But he has got the potency to accept it. And because he has got little independence, he can reject it. So it is not natural evolution. You have to accept the principle as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Why it is said, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7]? If it is actually evolutionary, then why there is dharmasya glanir? Tadatmanam srjamy aham: "As soon as there is discrepancies in the discharge of real duties, I appear." So it is natural. If we keep ourself in natural life, it is natural. But because we are developed consciousness, we do not keep in natural life. We accept so many unnatural things. Therefore our knowledge becomes covered by unnatural material nature. So that has to be cleared by superior instruction. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Therefore we have to take; voluntarily we have to accept. Just like a man who lives naturally, he never gets disease. But one who lives... Just like you don't find any disease amongst the animals. But amongst the human beings, oh, there are so many medical science, so many things. Why? They live unnaturally. So if you live naturally there is natural evolution, but if you block the natural course, then how you can do it? If you lit fire and let it go, it will grow. But if you pour water in it, how it will grow? So in the human form of life we do not go according to natural intuition. Just like amongst the animals, amongst the birds you'll see. Take the pigeons. You give them some peas -- they will eat. But if you give them some particles of meat, they'll not eat because they are living natural life. A tiger, he will not accept. You give him nice foodstuff, prepare your vegetables, he'll not accept. So natural life evolves up to the animal life. But when you come to the human form of life you have got developed consciousness, and instead of using your intelligence and consciousness for further develop naturally, you put unnatural impediments; therefore you are covered. That is called yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati, tadatmanam [Bg. 4.7]. Therefore you require instruction of Krsna.

Guest: One of the major criticisms today of most religions are their irrelevance to tackling the social problems or immediate external problems. You talked about things beyond the self. In the Bhagavad-gita I think you have references such as Arjuna being told not to become attached to the fruit of his actions, but act. Can you give us some idea of, more specific idea, of the principles which would guide one's action while trying to develop Krsna consciousness?

Prabhupada: That principle is stated as the ultimate instruction of Bhagavad-gita, that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We have got two kinds of religion. One is called, what is called, pravrtti. Pravrtti means we are inclined, because we have got this material body, we are inclined to material activities. That is called pravrtti-marga. Indriyani parany ahur [Bg. 3.42]. This body means senses. So because so long we are absorbed in this bodily concept of life, then we try to give comforts to the senses, sense gratification. This is one stage. So dharma means occupation. People are engaged in various types of occupational duties for sense gratification. Sometimes in religion they say you'll go to heaven. What is that heaven? That is also sense gratification. You'll live so long years, you'll have so many beautiful wives and so many things, so many things. All flowery language. What is the basic? Sense gratification. That's all. This is one way. Another way is nivrtti-marga. When one has seen perfectly that "This process of sense gratification cannot give me actual happiness," then they began to give it up. Just like the Mayavadi philosophy. They say brahma-satyam jagan mithya: "This world is false." Just like in your country, a section of youngsters, they're disgusted with this materialistic way of life. They have taken to the hippies' path. Why? It does not give satisfaction, but they do not know the right way. They have taken a wrong way, hippies. So this is called accepting and rejecting. So Krsna says, "You have to give up all this nonsense accepting and rejecting. You have to take to Me, then you'll be happy." Sarva-dharman. Sarva-dharman means some religious occupation is for sense gratification and some religious occupation is rejection of this material world. So we have to give up both these, the acceptance and rejection. We have to accept the Krsna's path, Krsna consciousness. "Surrender unto Me." Then we'll be happy.

Guest: I'd like to just digress on that. Arjuna had a very difficult problem with whether to go into combat or not. Today...

Prabhupada: Yes. He accepted Krsna's, Krsna's path, surrender. Krsna wanted that "You must fight." So in the beginning he did not like to fight, but when he surrendered... Krsna asked him, "My dear Arjuna, I have spoken to you everything. Now what you are going to do?" Now here also Krsna is giving independence to Arjuna: "What you are going to do?" Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. "Now whatever you like, you do." He never interferes. And what Arjuna said? Karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Oh, I shall do what You are saying. Yes." (laughter) This is Krsna consciousness. Karisye vacanam tava. Yes. He changed his decision and he wanted to do as Krsna desired. This is Krsna conscious. He remained the same military man, but he changed his consciousness. He perfected. Arjuna, after learning Krsna consciousness or teachings of Bhagavad-gita, he did not go away from the battlefield, but he sternly fought the fight because he knew that "Krsna wants it. All right." Karisye vacanam. This is Krsna consciousness. So when we take to this conclusion, karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73], "Krsna whatever You want, I shall do," that is perfection.

Guest: Under what conditions would Krsna sanction violence?

Prabhupada: What is that?

Satsvarupa: Under what conditions would Krsna sanction violence?

Prabhupada: Violence? Krsna does not sanction violence, but if there is absolute necessity, then violence is required. Yes. Krsna wanted to mitigate the misunderstanding of two groups of cousin-brothers. So Krsna personally induced, "All right, they are, your brothers are ksatriyas. Ksatriyas, they cannot do any business or take the profession of a brahmana. So you give them five villages. They will be satisfied." And they replied, "Oh, what do You call five villages? I cannot spare even that land which can hold the tip of this needle." Then Krsna says, "You must fight." So Krsna or Krsna's devotees, they are not after fight, but if there is absolute necessity of fight, then they can fight also. Because they are prepared to do anything. Just like in Ramayana also, the same subject matter. Hanuman. Hanuman is a devotee of Lord Ramacandra. So he fought with Ravana not for his personal self, but Rama wanted, that "He has kidnapped the queen of Rama. She must be delivered." And there was fighting. That is the principle. When one does not agree to the religious principle or to the moral principle or any instruction, he is adamant, then there must be fight.

Guest: What are the specific principles that you would use in trying to determine whether it is absolutely necessary to fight? That sounds sort of like "Whenever in doubt, do the right thing." That's a very vague directive. You know that perhaps if somebody comes into your house and threatens your family, then you have to repel them with a certain amount of force, but how would you...

Prabhupada: These instructions, these directions are there in the Vedic literatures. If somebody, it is said if somebody kidnaps your wife, if somebody sets fire in your house, somebody comes to kill you, then he is understood as aggressor and you can kill him immediately. There is no question of nonviolence. These are sastric instructions. All right. So I think we can chant again. You can join. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Lecture to International Student Society -- Boston, December 28, 1969

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The Superiority of Devotional Mellows

Srila Prabhupada speaks on:

The Superiority of Devotional Mellows

72/12/28 Bombay

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Pradyumna: (reading) "Bhakti-rasa, however, the mellow relished in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, does not finish with the end of life. It continues perpetually and is therefore called amrta, that which does not die, but exists eternally."

Prabhupada: This is the importance of Krsna consciousness, that in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said:

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer
bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim
ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah
 [SB 1.5.17]

Just like sometimes they say that the, in this movement, just like the cinema, the hippies are joining. Accepting that hippies are... Hippies means they're useless. They are joining. Bhagavata says that those who are very dutiful, they are called sva-dharma nistha. Sva-dharma nistha. According to Vedic culture, there are different divisions of the society. Brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha. So these are called sva-dharma, means, engaged in one's occupational duty. That is called sva-dharma. Or, in the modern sense, somebody's engaged in business, somebody's engaged in other occupation, profession. There are...

Every man has got some engagement. That's a fact. So Bhagavata says that: tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer [SB 1.5.17]. Anyone, even by sentiment, or by any reason, he gives up his own occupational duty and takes shelter of Krsna, or joins this Krsna consciousness movement, tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer... All right. If one has joined this Krsna consciousness movement, doing very nicely, he's improving, that's all right. But if he falls down... Because sometimes they come out of sentiment, join this movement and again falls down. Sometimes. Not very occasionally. But there is chance because maya is very strong. One may fall down. Bhagavata says bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi. He's not mature. In immature stage, by some reason or other, if he falls down, then yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim. Then what is the loss there? There is no loss. Suppose he joined out of sentiment and executed devotional service for some time under the direction of the spiritual master, according to the regulations of the sastras, but incidentally, he falls down. He becomes a victim to the maya. Bhagavata says still there is no loss. There is no loss. On the other hand, a person who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, he has not become a devotee, Bhagavata says: "What does he gain?" One who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, doesn't care for Krsna consciousness, then Bhagavata says: "What does he gain?" He doesn't gain anything. But the, that man who joined this Krsna consciousness movement out of sentiment, but immaturely he falls down, he has no loss. This is the...

Try to understand this. Because this Krsna consciousness is the consciousness of the spirit soul. That is reality. Therefore as the soul is eternally, his advancement in that consciousness, that also becomes an eternal asset. That will never be lost. Even if (he) falls down in this life, he could not execute cent percent the duties in Krsna consciousness, even he falls down, so whatever he has done in this life, that becomes a permanent asset. So that, from next life, he'll be given chance. In... In ordinary karmi's life, there is no guarantee that he'll get next life a human body. According to his karma he'll get a body. Maybe animal body or maybe demigod's body. But there is no certainty that he'll get a human body. But this man, who out of sentiment joined in Krsna consciousness movement, and immaturely falls down, he's guaranteed to get a very nice human body.

That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that sucinam srimatam gehe yogo bhrasto sanjayate [Bg. 6.41]. He'll get birth in a family, sucinam. Sucinam means pious brahmana family or devotee's family. He'll get birth. Or in rich family. The second-class will get in rich family. But both these families will give them chance to begin where he ended his Krsna consciousness in the last life. He'll begin from there. That is his opportunity. Therefore there is no loss. His next life as human being is guaranteed. Even if he's fallen down. But the others, who does not take to Krsna consciousness, doing his own duty, but he will get a body according to his karma. Not... That, that is the difference between the karmis and the devotee. Devotee, even if he is not successful to execute the devotional... perfectly, but whatever he has done, ten percent, twenty percent, fifty percent, that is his asset. It will never be lost. That is being stated. Go on.

Pradyumna: "This is confirmed in all Vedic literatures. The Bhagavad-gita says that a little advancement in bhakti-rasa can save the devotee from the greatest danger, that of missing the opportunity for human life."

Prabhupada: Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Just Ajamila. Ajamila in his boyhood, he was very sincere brahmana. He was conducting devotional service under the direction of his father. But in youthhood, he fell down. He became a victim of a prostitute. He forgot everything. He became a rogue, drunkard, meat-eater, woman-hunter, all fallen down. But at the end of life, when he was afraid of the Yamadutas, out of fearfulness he called for his youngest son whose name was Narayana. Because when you are in danger, naturally... Just like a child, cries for the mother. Because mother is the only... Similarly affection is there. Similarly this Ajamila asked for the youngest child: "Narayana." But immediately he remembered that Narayana whom he served in his boyhood. So immediately the Narayana messengers came and saved him. Svalpam apy. He, he executed very little service in his boyhood as a devotee. That saved him from the greatest danger. He was being dragged out by the men of Yamaraja, but the Visnudutas came and protected him and took him to Vaikuntha. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. By by chance, he remembered Narayana because he executed Narayana's service. Then he was saved. Go on.

Pradyumna: "The rasas derived from our feeling in social life, in family life, or in the greater family life of altruism, philanthropism, nationalism, socialism, communism, etc., do not guarantee that one's next life will be as a human being."

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no guarantee. That... Yes. Now today I am very great leader, minister. That's all right. But after death there is no guarantee that you'll become again minister or big man, big business man. There is no such guarantee. That we'll have to accept another body according to your karma. Suppose as business man, I've done very nicely. I have given in charity. That's nice. You get better life. But for business sake, I have earned money by hook and crook, my mentality's just like crocodile or dog; then I have to become a crocodile. That's all. Because after death you are in the hands of nature. You cannot dictate that "Give me this and that body." No. That you have to prepare in this life. If you prepare yourself in this life to go back to home, back to Godhead, you go back to home, back to Godhead. If you prepare your, this life as a crocodile, then you become a crocodile. So God is very kind. Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. So it is your business to what kind of body you are going to get next. Just like the example I was giving last night. That we are staying in this room, and suppose after a month we have to give it up. So we must find out another apartment. It may be better or it may be lower. There is no guarantee. But if we can arrange, we can better apartment than this. And if we cannot, we may go to hellish apartment. This is the way. But for the devotee, at least it is guaranteed that he gets next life as a human being. Not only human being, but in the family of a devotee, or in the family of rich man. These alternatives are there. Then?

Pradyumna: "We prepare our next life by our actual activities in the present life. A living entity is offered a particular type of body as a result of his action in the present body. These activities are taken into account by a superior authority..."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: "...known as daiva."

Prabhupada: People do not believe this. They think that everything is going on automatically. No. There is everything, account, witness. The Lord...

Devotee: Too windy? (about fan)

Prabhupada: Yes. Anumanta upadrasta saksini. Saksini. The Lord... Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese [Bg. 18.61]. Everything is being witnessed and that is being recorded. So just like in a office in government service, there is service record, and at the end of the year, everything is considered. So the man is promoted, given some bonus on the proprietor or the directors, they're not meeting that man. But the service record is there. Similarly, whatever we are doing, good or bad, that is being recorded and it is examined. Karmana daiva netrena [SB 3.31.1]. We are acting and there is superior authority. They are examining what kind of body he has to get next. So that, that, that science is not being taught, that what is our next body? They are thinking that there is no next body, there is no life, this life is finished. But that is not the fact. As this life I have changed. I was a child, I got next body, I was a boy, I got next body, I was a you, young man. I got next body. Now I have got this body. So now I will have not this body, I will get next body. Where is the difficulty to understand? I've already experienced the next body, next body, next body. Why not after death next body? That the intelligence is to know what is that next body. That is, my, in my hand.

Just like if you become educated highly your next post is very nice. But if you are not educated, then your next post is not very nice. Similarly if you act in this body very nicely, yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah [Bg. 9.25]. So you can prepare your next life. So our, this Krsna consciousness is next life to go back to Krsna directly. That is our program. How? Simply by knowing Krsna. That's all. Krsna guarantees this: janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. If we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, simply try to understand what is Krsna. And He's explaining in the Bhagavad-gita. But if you foolishly misinterpret Krsna, then you go to hell. But if you understand Krsna as Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, then you go back to Krsna. Where is the difficulty?

The rascals, they will not understand Krsna as Krsna says. The rascal will mislead other and mislead himself. He'll go himself to hell and he'll drag all others to the hell. This is going on. This is going on. Everything is there, very plain and clear. One has to act according to that. He gets the benefit. But they, they will not allow. These rascal leaders, they'll not allow. They will be represent Krsna as something else. The, the only business is to kill Krsna. That's all. Not to accept Krsna is fact. All the big commentaries on Bhagavad-gita, you'll see. They're simply trying to make Krsna is not a fact. It is some fictitious. It is some story, mental speculation. This is their business. Demonic. So the condition is very, I mean to say, dangerous. People are being misled.

We are only... It is not our pride. It is a fact. We are the only institution. We are trying to give the greatest benefit to the human society, the Krsna consciousness. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Anyone who understands, if he understands... It is not possible to understand fully Krsna. Krsna is unlimited. But as, as He represents Himself, Krsna, as He says Himself, if you understand... Krsna says: "I am the origin of everything." You take it. Krsna is the origin of everything. He has proved. Krsna is origin of everything. All the acaryas, big, big acarya accepted Him, Krsna is the origin of everything. Arjuna, who heard Bhagavad-gita, he accepted Him, Krsna is origin. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam [Bg. 10.12]. Why we should try to understand Krsna otherwise? What is this foolishness? But that is their scholarship. That is their knowledge. If somebody can most rascal explain Bhagavad-gita, oh, he's a great scholar. Just see the fun.(?) He's the rascal number one and misleading people, he's great scholar. And we are simply presenting Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna says, Krsna says: "Surrender unto Me." We say surrender to Krsna. "These are primitive. These are primitive." We are not scholars. This is, this rascaldom is going on. So you want to save people from these rascals. That is Krsna consciousness movement. The rascals have created a situation by defying Krsna's authority, atheistic situation, the whole world in chaos. That must be. When there are leaders, only demons, how there can be any peace? The people are also becoming demons. So our, this movement, is very scientific, authorized. If you preach, there is no difficulty. As we, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gita, simply Bhagavad-gita as it is, then you are successful and those who hear you, they also successful. Simply method. Go on.

Pradyumna: "These activities are taken into account by a superior authority known as daiva, or the authority of God. This daiva is explained in the Bhagavad-gita as the prime cause of everything."

Prabhupada: Yes. There are five causes. Karta, the, the doer, the place, the instrument, and providence. In this way, there are five causes for acting anything. Just like you are doing business. So if you are a nice businessman, that's very good asset. If you place your business in a market place, there is good opportunity. If you have got sufficient capital, good instrument, and if God is favorable, then your business is successful. Similarly in anything there are five causes. And the ultimate cause is daiva. You may make everything very nicely. You may become, may be very business, a good business man, you have got sufficient capital, you are conducting your business in a very nice center, downtown, everything, but if God is not favorable, then everything will be spoiled. Everything will be spoiled. So therefore this cause, favorable. Of course, God is kind to everyone. But, but we see sometimes that everything is perfectly done, but still it is spoiled.

Just like a man. A man is suffering from some disease, and you have employed first-class physician, first-class medicine, first-class everything, but is still the man dies. What is the cause? The cause is daiva. That in spite of all your endeavors, because God does not like that he should live, you cannot save him. You cannot save him. The same example, again I want to give. That Titanic. They made the ship very strong, and they were so assured that all the big men, they, they were on board that Titanic ship. There was first journey and immediately Atlantic Ocean, they smashed. That's a great incidence. Therefore this is a fact, that you may arrange everything very nicely, according to your best knowledge, but if God is unfavorable, then you cannot do it. Daiva. Na ca daiva param balam. Therefore it is said there is no other superior strength than daiva. One has to accept this. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the, and in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that a man takes his next body by daiva-netrena which means by the supervision of the authority of the Supreme. In an ordinary sense, daiva..."

Prabhupada: Daiva-netrena. So we have to get our body next according the superior, daiva. Superior means God's, God's arrangement. God is witnessing what kind of body I will have. Then?

Pradyumna: "In an ordinary sense, daiva is explained as destiny. Daiva supervision gives us a body selected from eight million, four hundred thousand forms."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: "The choice does not depend on our selection..."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: "...but is awarded to us according to our destiny."

Prabhupada: You cannot say that "I am Indian. I have got my love for India. And I'll get again birth as Indian leader." You, you may get birth in India because you have got strong attachment, but it may not be as leader. It may be as cats and dogs. Or cows or goat. Then you'll be sent to the slaughterhouse, you, even though you are Indian. Or any country, American... So these are simply sentiments. This is, this is, there is no use... But people do not know this science. They think that "I am doing right as philanthropist, as nationalist, as..." But you, he, he forgets that he's under the full control of material nature. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot plan. The ultimate plan is sanctioned by God, or by His agent, the prakrti. You cannot make your plan. You get the result of your present activity. Karma phala. Go on.

Pradyumna: "If our body at present is engaged in the activities of Krsna consciousness, then it is guaranteed that we will have at least a human body in our next life. A human being engaged in Krsna consciousness, even if unable to complete the course of bhakti yoga is, allowed take birth in the higher division of human society so that he can automatically further his advancement in Krsna consciousness. Therefore all bona fide activities in Krsna consciousness are amrta, or permanent."

Prabhupada: Yes. Amrta. Bhakti-rasamrta. (aside:) What you...? Sit down.

Pradyumna: "This is the subject matter of The Nectar of Devotion."

Prabhupada: Go on.

Pradyumna: "This eternal engagement in bhakti-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Krsna consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life, free from anxieties and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord Krsna. Generally..."

Prabhupada: Bhakti-rasa is better than liberation, mukti. Because generally the Mayavadi philosophers, jnani-sampradaya, they consider mukti means to merge into the spiritual existence, Brahman. Brahma-sayujya-mukti, to, to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence of the Absolute. They consider it, that is the highest. And the Buddha philosophers, they think to make all these activities zero, sunyavadi. Dismantle. Because on account of this combination of matter, earth, water, fire, air, ether, this body's made, and the body is subjected to pains and pleasure on account of this mixture. So Buddha philosophy is that you dismantle this mixture. Let earth go to the earth portion and water portion to the water portion. Then there is no existence of the body, and there is no pains and pleasure. Make it zero. This is called sunyavadi. And the Mayavadi, their philosophy is stop this variegatedness. We are suffering pains and pleasure within this material world on account of these varieties. So these varieties, they are on, built on the foundation of the Supreme Spirit. So merge into the Supreme Spirit and get out of these varieties. This is their philosophy. So the Buddha philosophy or the Mayavada philosophy, they're almost one, because their ultimate goal is to make things zero.

But our philosophy is different. Our philosophy is that as there are varieties in this material world, there are varieties in the spiritual world. That varieties. Just like the sky. In the sky, there are varieties. There are different kinds of planets, floating in the sky. Ordinarily seeing, in daytime, we see the sky is vacant. How it is vacant? It is not vacant. It is the defect of my eyes that I cannot see the varieties. The vari... At night we can see the varieties. There are so many planets, so many stars. And each of them full of varieties. Just like this planet. It is, we learn from the sastra. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-kotisv asesa-vasudadhi bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. There are innumerable universes. This universe is one only. And each and every universe, there are millions of planets. And each of them has got special significance. Just like this Moon planet, the Sun planet, this Earth planet, each one has got significance. Here, the bodies are earthly. In the Sun planet, the bodies are fire. Fiery. Similarly in the Moon planet, the bodies are different. Each and every planet.

They do not know. They want to go with this body to the Moon planet. That is not possible. Just like if you want to live in the water with this body. That is not possible. You have to get a body suitable for living in the water. So that you have to prepare. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, yanti deva-vrata devan [Bg. 9.25]. These people are going to the Moon planet. Trying to go. They have not gone. But they do not know that with this body they cannot live there. That is not possible. They are, they might be going to the Moon planet in the deserted portion. And they're coming back. But Moon planet is not desert. We get information. It is one of the heavenly planets. So they, they are not going to the right place. That we have suggested in many places. So anyway, there are varieties. As there are varieties within this material world, similarly there are varieties in the spiritual world. This material world is only a reflection of the spiritual world. So unless we merge into, unless we get shelter in one of the planets of the spiritual world, if we simply merge into the Brahman effulgence, we cannot stay there for long.

Just like in the sky. If you simply fly your aeroplane only in the sky, you don't get any shelter in any planet. You'll have to come back again. You'll have to come back again. You cannot stay in the sky. Similarly those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there because we, as living entities, we want a varieties. Just like when I was, when I was travelling in the... Everyone has got experience. Either sky or on the water. So, and for weeks together, simply water, water. And the, on board the ship, it become very much sickness. Is called sea-sickness. As soon as there is some land visible, "Oh, there is land again." Because we want varieties. So those who are trying to merge into the variety-less Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there. That information we get from Srimad-Bhagavatam, aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanti adhah: After great perseverance, austerity, penances, they merge into the Brahman effulgence, but they again fall down. They again fall down.

So that is not our ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to take shelter unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas [SB 10.2.32]. Simply to concoct that I become, I have become liberated. And, that... Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah. They, those who are thinking that they have become liberated simply by merging into the Brahman effulgence, they are avisuddha-buddhayah, they are still, their intelligence is not very clear, not purified. Why? Now, although they have gone there, and thinking that they are liberated, aruhya krcchrena param padam patanti [SB 10.2.32], they'll fall down. They cannot remain there. Because there is no varieties. And our life, because we are living entities, we want varieties. Without varieties, it is hackneyed. We cannot stay there. Therefore they fall down. Those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they fall down. Go on. Therefore a bhakta does not accept the Brahman, brahmananda. Brahmananda, they know. Brahmananda is, there is brahmananda. That is liberation from the material ananda. But unless one is engaged in sevananda, service of the Lord, this brahmananda will not be sufficient to keep him in the spiritual world. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Generally neophyte devotees are anxious to see Krsna or God, but God cannot be seen or known by our present materially blunt senses. The process of devotional service, as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion, will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations. The senses can then become uncontaminated, being constantly in touch with bhakti-rasa. When the purified senses are employed in the service of the Lord, one becomes situated in bhakti-rasa life and any action performed for the satisfaction of Krsna in this transcendental bhakti-rasa stage of life, can be relished perpetually. When one is thus engaged in devotional service, all varieties of rasas or mellows turn into eternity. In the beginning one is trained according to the principles of regulation under the guidance of the acarya or spiritual master. And gradually, when one is elevated, devotional service becomes automatic and spontaneous eagerness to serve Krsna. There are twelve kinds of rasas, as will be ex..."

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like we have seen, we have experience. Sometimes the car becomes blocked. But some fellow pushes it. We have got this experience. What is called that? Chocked up? Then you get, get down and push the car and (makes noise:) brut brut brut, goes. Similarly the bhakti-rasa is there in everyone's heart. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti. Because we, we are part and parcel of Krsna. Just like father and son. A father and son may be separate for many, many, many, many years. But as soon as they meet together, again the same affection comes. Again the same affection comes. Wife and husband. Therefore sannyasi is strictly prohibited to see his wife. Because there is staunch affection. By meeting again that affection. By meeting again that affection may come. He may fall down. Therefore strictly prohibited. At least, other members can be seen. But not the wife. So the fact is that we have got devotion for Krsna. That is fact. But some way or other, we are separated and we have forgotten. So as soon as, by this regulative principle, by the order of the spiritual master, by the injunction of the sastras, we begin devotional service. That, that, just like our students do here. They are offering aratrika. They're offering dress, offering garland. These are the items of arcana. Hearing about Him, chanting about Him. This devotional service is the pushing process. Pushing process. And as soon as the energy comes, then automatically: (makes noise) clak clak clak. No more pushing. Automatically. This pushing process is required.

So just to invoke or revive the dormant Krsna consciousness. Therefore this bhakti process has to be... And Krsna also says: bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. If we, because the simple process is: if you understand Krsna tattvatah, tattvatah, in truth, then your life is successful. As soon as you understand Krsna tattvatah, then tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. You don't, won't have again in this material world. Don't get any material body. You go back home, back to Godhead. And this tattvatah, to understand Krsna, tattvatah, you have to take to the devotional service. This jnana process or the karma process or the yoga process, it can push you little further. But... Just like if you push the car little farther, but unless the energy of the car comes into action, this car will not go. Simply pushing is not sufficient. The car must come to his energy automatically. Then it will go. So that process is bhakti. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. All right. We shall discuss tomorrow. [break]

Woman: ...in the Moon planet, are there bodies like of a more subtle nature so that if they did go there, they wouldn't be able to see them?

Prabhupada: Eh? No. You can see them. They have got material body.

Woman: We could see them with our eyes?

Prabhupada: Oh yes. Why not? The body... Just like in the water, the bodies of the aquatics are different, but you can see them. Why not? If, if, if it is not visible, how you are seeing the Moon planet? You are seeing the Moon planet. So it is visible. Not invisible. Our point is that these people... First of all, whether they are going to the Moon planet, that is doubtful. At least, I am doubtful. Because we get information from the sastra , that there is a planet which is called Rahu. That is very near to Moon. And that Rahu sometimes comes in front of the Moon planet, and that is called candragrahana. Moon, lunar eclipse. So that, that Rahu planet is dark. So they might be going to this Rahu planet, not to the Moon planet. Maybe. Because that is very near. Moon planet is heavenly planet. Heavenly planet. There, there demigods, they live. So we get this information. Or just like if somebody comes to the, this earthly planet and drops in the Arabian desert, he may conclude that this, is desert. But there is Europe, America and nice cities, and nice bungalows. But he has no chance to see them. So these people are going. They had no chance. Maybe they are also diverting them to the deserted portion of the Moon. They are also intelligent. That "These people are coming from Earthly planet unauthorized. So let them diverted to the deserted portion." There are so many things. So therefore... Because if Moon planet is heavenly planet, they're more intelligent than you. If you have got some machine to reach there, they have got some machine to divert you. Why not think like that? That "These rascals are coming here without any immigration license. Let them be diverted to the deserted portion and disappointed they'll go back." So many things are there. Therefore they are not successful. Neither they'll be ever successful. Take it. I may die. But you take it rightly. They'll never be successful. I have already written these things in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. This is childish. It is not possible.

Devotee: This, is there earth in their bodies or is their body made out of air?

Prabhupada: No. These bodies are five elements. Earth, air, water, air, fire, ether. The subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. So in some planet the earthly portion may be major, the fire portion may be major. In some planet the ether portion may be major. But they're all material bodies. They're material bodies. They're not spiritual bodies. Spiritual body is within. Within the universe, anywhere you go, you get the material body, and according to the body, the duration of life is different. Just like a germ's body. That is also material body. And a human body. That is also material body. But a germ takes birth and dies within second or minute. We live for a hundred years. Both of them material bodies. Similarly Brahma has got also material body. Those who are living in the moon planet, they are also material body. In the sun planet, they have got material... But different varieties. They live ten thousand years of their... Daiva. Ten thousand. Daiva means our one six months equal to one day there. Such ten thousand years, they live. That is calculated in the Bhagavad-gita: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17]. So that is twelve hours. Sahasra-yuga. These four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dvapara yugas, they're forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand. That becomes Brahma's twelve hours. So according to the different planet, according to the orbit, the time duration, the, everything is different. A ant's hundred years and my hundred years not the same. It is relative. Atomic. According to the body, according to the size... The, the world, the scientific world also accepts relative world. Everything is... [break]

As soon as your assets of pious activities is finished, then you come back again. Instead of going back to home, you come back again on this Earth. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Going back. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says: ei rupe brahmando bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva. In this way, we are wandering from one life to another, one planet to another. If one is fortunate, he gets the clue of devotional service and makes his life perfect and goes back to home, back to... Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. "One who goes to My abode, he never comes back." This is the perfection. Doctor, Sir you are a scientist. So how do you think our explanation? Does it tally with your scientific...?

Guest (Indian man): Our science has not come to this stage, to explain all these things.

Prabhupada: Yes. Science has no explanation actually.

Guest: For material men like us it is not possible to accept the Vedas. Because we do not know. I do not see. It may not be there. But all we can say that we are still in the dark or ignorant about the...

Prabhupada: But we have to take knowledge from superior authority. I am always not in knowledge. That is my position. But we take knowledge from superior authority. So we are taking knowledge from Krsna, the most superior authority. [break] ...our Vedic system. It is advised, tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the system. Just like you are a medical man. To acquire your knowledge, you had to accept the medical college, the professors. So this is natural. If we want to know something which is not, or which is unknown to me, then we have to accept a guru, a superior man. Guru means superior man. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Guru means "heavy," or "superior." That is the law. So our process of Vedic knowledge is that we get knowledge from the superior just like Brahma, Lord Brahma. He's the first, original creature, within this universe. And he got knowledge from God, Krsna, the Absolute. The Vedas means the knowledge which he heard... Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. So there is sampradaya. Brahma imparted this knowledge to Narada. Narada imparted this knowledge to Vyasadeva. Evam parampara. That, this is our process of knowledge. We get knowledge from the superior. Everyone gets knowledge from the superior. Nobody gets knowledge automatically. That is not possible. So things which are beyond the perception of our senses, how we can get that knowledge? By our mental speculation, it is not, never perfect. We give sometimes this example: Just like we, if we want to know who is my father, that is not possible to know simply by mental speculation. If we approach the authority, mother, we get the knowledge immediately. So knowledge from the authority is perfect. Knowledge by mental speculation is always imperfect. This is our conclusion. If you get knowledge, any knowledge, from the perfect, that knowledge is perfect. And if you get knowledge from imperfect, that knowledge is always imperfect. This is our process. Therefore the Vedas says: tad vijnanartham gurum eva abhigacchet. One must approach the superior who is in knowledge. Then he gets the knowledge. [break]

...sometimes disagree. But the, our point is very strong, that you cannot get perfect knowledge from imperfect person. That is not possible. That's a fact. You can get knowledge only from the perfect. That is real knowledge. The modern scientific knowledge, taking perfection. The next year, again changes. "This theory is changed." So they, they say that this is advancement. We are making progress. This means that whatever knowledge you are making your basis, that is imperfect. Progress means then you have to go to the perfect. That means the knowledge which you possessed, that was imperfect. Again you say... "So from imperfect platform we are going to the perfect." But if we get from the perfect this knowledge, then we get perfect knowledge, from the perfect person. Perfect person means he does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. His senses are not imperfect. And he does not cheat. This is the four points of perfection. Cheating propensity's there. To the imperfect person, there is cheating propensity. He knows that this point, "I'm not very clear, but still he gives some idea." That is cheating. There are so many... Darwin's theory. Others. "Perhaps, it may be." Like this. These words are there, used. What is the use of this "perhaps?" That means imperfect knowledge. "It may be. There is something missing." So how we can believe all this imperfect knowledge?

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Bombay, December 28, 1972

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Symptoms Of Saintly Persons

Symptoms Of Saintly Persons

Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.354-356
New York, December 28, 1966

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Prabhupada:

avatara nahi kahe-'ami avatara'
muni saba jani' kare laksana-vicara

So Lord Caitanya says that incarnation, He never advertises Himself that He is avatara. But experienced munis, those who are liberated souls, those who are expert in Vedic knowledge, they understand that this is avatara, or incarnation, by the symptoms, as they are stated in the scriptures. In the scripture, the color, the activities, the time and the place and the parents -- everything is described about the incarnation. So, so that, just like everything has to be understood by the symptoms, that is the scientific advancement. Just like a drug is tested in the laboratory and the drug, the symptoms and the taste, how it is, how the color changes, how it tastes in the tongue, everything is described there, so scientists proves, understands the genuineness of a particular chemical by testing. Similarly, nobody should be accepted as incarnation. That is foolishness. Incarnation, they are stated in the scriptures. Their symptoms, everything is there, and one should understand from that. The avatara never advertises. Anyone who advertises himself that "I am incarnation," he should be at once rejected. He should be at once rejected.

yasyavatara jnayante
saririsv asaririnah
tais tair atulyatisayair
viryair dehisv asangataih

The first thing is that avatara, incarnation, He hasn't got this material body. The first symptom is... And still, the avatara appears before us. Because, so far our senses are concerned, we can see the material objects. We can see a stone. We can see, I mean to say, wood. We can see water. We cannot see even air, the finer material things. We cannot see mind. We know that mind is there in every soul, every body. Every one of us has got mind, but we cannot see. We cannot see the sky. So the..., in the material world also, there are so many finer things which we cannot see. And what to speak of spiritual? So that spiritual, Supreme Spirit, when He appears before us, seeable, so that we can see, so that is His mercy. That is His mercy. Because we cannot see even the soul within ourself; we are seeing only the body. So what to speak of the Supreme Spirit? That is not possible. Yasyavatara jnayante saririsv asaririnah. Therefore it is the inconceivable power that the incarnation of God appears before us.

'svarupa'-laksana, ara 'tatastha-laksana'
ei dui laksane 'vastu' jane muni-gana

The symptoms are analyzed in two divisions. Svarupa-laksana means the symptom which (is) always present. That is called svarupa-laksana. And tatastha-laksana, the symptoms which are sometimes present and sometimes not present. They are called... In this way, the experienced sages, they analyze the characteristics of the avatara, or God -- two symptoms. One symptom is always there. As soon as there is God, that constant symptom is there. And there are other symptoms which may appear, sometimes may not appear.

akrti, prakrti, svarupa -- svarupa-laksana
karya-dvara jnana -- ei tatastha-laksana

Akrti, prakrti. The form and the activities, all uncommon. Just like Krsna. Krsna, He married sixteen thousand wives and He divided Himself into sixteen thousand. Krsna. This is called akrti. This is uncommon. God can expand Himself in any number of forms. We cannot do that. That is the..., symptom of God. Akrti, prakrti. Prakrti is His nature, supreme nature. As soon as He likes anything to do, He'll do it. There is no impediment. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyat... And He does in such nice way that we cannot conceive how it is being done, nature's way. Akrti prakrti, these are tatastha laksana, uh, svarupa laksana, personal symptoms of God. And karya-dvara jnana -- ei tatastha-laksana. And the activities... Just like Krsna, when comes as incarnation, His activities and activities of Rama, or activities of Nrsimha, activities of Vamana, these activities may differ according to time, according to place, according to the mission. The activities may be different. But Their, Their akrti, Their feature, and Their power -- extraordinary. We should understand very nicely that incarnation means Their feature and Their nature -- uncommon.

There may be difference. Just like Buddha. Buddha's activities and Krsna's activities, there is difference. Buddha's activity was different because, according to the place, according to the time, according to the audience, the activities are... Avatara, incarnation, comes when there is necessity. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. When there is discrepancies in the discharge of dharma... Dharma means the prescribed rules by which one elevates himself to the transcendental life. That is dharma, religion. Why in human society there is religion? The purpose is to elevate himself to the transcendental position. That is religion. Where there is no such aim to raise one from the fallen condition to the liberated state, that is not religion. That is sentiment. Religion means that one should be raised from the fallen condition to the highest elevated condition. Therefore there are so many rules and regulations. In the Bhagavad-gita the Lord says, yad icchantam, yad icchantam brahmacaryam caranti. Yad icchantam. (aside:) Just open the... I think it is in the Eighth Chapter. Eighth Chapter, fifteenth verse. Open it. (pause) Read it.

Devotee: Mam upetya punar janma [Bg. 8.15].

Prabhupada: No. Then, before that.

Devotee: Ananya cetah...

Prabhupada: Before that.

Devotee: Om iti...

Prabhupada: Yad icchantam. The sloka is yad icchantam brahma... You don't find it. Let me. Let me have the book. (pause) Yes, here. Eleventh.

yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti
visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah
yad icchanto brahmacaryam caranti
tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye

Here is the transla... "I shall briefly describe to  that state which the knowers of the Vedas call the imperishable, which the ascetics, freed from passion, enter, and desiring which, they lead a life of self-control." Not... Brahmacarya is celibacy. Translation is not here. Celibacy means completely ceasing from sex life. Yad icchanto brahmacarya. Brahmacarya means celibacy. No sex life. Therefore the brahmacarya asrama is recommended. The first basic principle of religious life, according to Vedic principle, the students are expected to go to the spiritual master's place and learn how to live without any sex life. For twenty-five years or at least for twenty years, the student is trained up in that way. Then he's allowed to enter into the grhastha life to marry. So there is a process. Religion means there must be process. It is not simply mental speculation. Yad icchantam brahmacaryam caranti. Yad icchantam brahmacaryam caranti tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye. These things are described in the Bhagavad-gita.

So to understand, to elevate oneself from the fallen condition to the highest liberated condition, one has to be trained up, one has to follow the rules and regulations as they are prescribed. Otherwise, simply some recreation, spiritual recreation, talking something -- "This is that; this is that," "Neti neti" -- and I lead my life like anything... That will not help us. Therefore the tatastha laksana. Therefore we accept anyone and everyone as incarnation, because we are not trained up who is incarnation, to see. And, because we want to be cheated, there are so many cheaters who comes as incarnation and this and that, and the society's going on like that. Not only here -- in everywhere, every part of the world. They are not very serious, what is the ultimate aim of spiritual life. Spiritual life and material life is that when you want to enjoy, when we want to be lord of these material resources, that is material life. And when you want to become servant of God, that is spiritual life. They..., there is not much difference between the activities of material life and spiritual life. Only the consciousness has to be changed. When my consciousness is to lord it over the material nature, that is material life, and when my consciousness is to serve Krsna, the Supreme Lord, here, Krsna consciousness, that is spiritual life. So as there are rules and regulations for accelerating your material possession, material life, similarly, there are rules and regulation for spiritual life also.

So the basic principle is yad icchantam brahmacaryam caranti. One should be very regular. Vita-ragah. Visanti yad, visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah. Vita-ragah. Vita-ragah means completely separated from materialistic life. Vita-ragah. Ragah means attachment, and vita means completely freed. Yad aksaram, yad aksaram brahma vido vadanti. Brahma-vida. Brahma..., those who are conversant in Vedic literature. Aksaram. Aksaram. Yad aksaram. The God has His representation in three letters, a, u, m, which is sounded vibrated om. There is no difference between omkara and Krsna. It is admitted in the Bhagavad-gita that omkara 'smi. Aksaram omkaro 'smi: "Of all the letters I am the omkara." So Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare and omkara, there is no difference, so far the transcendental sound vibration is concerned. But the objective is different. By omkara one attains impersonal existence in the brahmajyoti, and by chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, one attains the spiritual body and he's situated in the spiritual planets. We have many times discussed that there are spiritual planets. That is the difference. So far quality is concerned, both of them are spiritual, omkara or Hare Krsna.

So,

bhagavatarambhe vyasa mangalacarane
'paramesvara' nirupila ei dui laksane

Now how the two different characteristics of God can be analyzed, that is mentioned in the beginning of the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Lord Caitanya is referring. Lord Caitanya's mission as preaching was based on, cent percent, on the principles of Srimad-Bhagavatam. And Bhagavad-gita is the basic, I mean to say, preliminary study of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Therefore in Caitanya-caritamrta you'll find most of the parallel passages and evidences offered by Lord Caitanya, they are from Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita and some of the Puranas. Just like Visnu Purana, Padma Purana, they are called sattvika purana, puranas in the modes of goodness. There are eighteen puranas, six for each quality, modes of the nature. Six, six puranas for the person who are in the modes of ignorance, six puranas for the person who are in the modes of passion, and six puranas for persons who are in the mode of goodness, those who are actually qualified brahmanas. So Srimad-Bhagavatam is called Maha-purana. Maha-purana means the topmost of all the puranas. You have seen the review by the Theosophical Society of India of my books. They have stated this very word, Maha-purana, Bhagavatam, the Maha-purana.

So Lord Caitanya gives evidences from the Maha-puranam, Srimad-Bhagavatam, that the Supreme Lord, the Absolute Truth, is analyzed in two characteristics. What are they? The, the personal characteristics and tatastha characteristics. Tatastha means they are sometimes manifested and they are not sometimes manifested. So this material world is the tatastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the personal characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this tatastha, or, I mean to say, tatastha means marginal, marginal characteristics to the permanent characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation. We should not remain in the marginal state, but we should go to the permanent state.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 20.354-358 -- New York, December 28, 1966

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Real Varnasrama

Real Varnasrama

Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.6.10
Bombay, December 28, 1976

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Prabhupada: So, read it?

Hari-sauri: He doesn't have a book.

Prabhupada: "People who are lowest among men and bewildered by the illusory energy of the Supreme Lord will give up the original varnasrama-dharma and its rules and regulations." [SB 5.6.10]

The varnasrama-dharma, that is beginning of human civilization. So in this age they have already given up. There is no varnasrama. In India it is simply in name. Actually, there is no varnasrama. The, most of the people, they are sudras. But without varnasrama, there cannot be any human civilization, because the aim of human life is to understand God. That is the aim of human life. Unfortunately, they have given up this idea, the aim of life is to understand God. You inquire all over the world, 99.9% will deny God or they have no clear idea of God. Even the so-called religionists, they have also no clear idea. Maybe some power; no clear idea. Neither they are interested to know. But so far we are concerned, we have got full description of the Lord and His pastimes, His activities. Everything is recorded in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and other Vedic literatures. And God says in the Bhagavad-gita personally that "I was existing in the past and I shall continue to exist in the future." Similarly, the living entities, they also existed in the past and they will continue to exist in the future individually. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita in the Second Chapter. It is not that we shall be finished in future or there was no existence in the past. No. We are, both of us, we are eternal. God, Krsna, and we, living entities, we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Our destruction of this material body does not mean we, as spirit soul, we are destroyed. No.

To understand this truth, the varnasrama system required. Without this varnasrama system nobody can understand that we are individual person, we existed in the past, and we shall exist in the future, and we are existing at present. Anyone can understand. There was no change in the past, neither there will be change in the future. Simply we change the dress: tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. This is our self-realization. This is called atma-tattva-jnana. But people in the present day, they are not interested. Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. Yavan na jijnasata krurah atma-tattvam. Parabhavas tavad abodha-jato yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam. Our activities, they are all defeat. The difference... Just like you are constructing this huge, gorgeous building and another person also constructing another huge skyscraper building. So what is the difference? The difference is here we are doing on the atma-tattva, and they are doing for being defeated in the material world. That is the difference. You'll find the same activities, dealing with stones and bricks and workers, engineers. But one is based on atma-tattva and the other is based on without any atma-tattva. That is the difference.

Sometimes bhakti is observed as similar to the activities of the karmis, but there is difference. One is bhakti, one is going back to home, back to Godhead; and the other is going forward to the hellish condition of life by the same activities. This is the technique. How it is possible? It is possible. By practical example, it is said in the sastras... Just like if you take more quantity of milk preparation, you get diarrhea. But the same milk preparation, yogurt, is there. It will stop diarrhea. Both of them are milk preparation. One has created the disease diarrhea, and another is stopping diarrhea. So why? Cikirsitam. One is by medical process and the other is without any medical process. The medical process is to satisfy Krsna. Here the building is being constructed to satisfy Krsna. To satisfy Krsna. And in other places the building is constructed to satisfy senses. This is the difference, material and spiritual.

Material means to satisfy one's senses. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [SB 5.5.4]. Karma means they are working very hard like dogs and hogs, but the purpose is indriya-priti. Nunam pramattah: they are mad. They should not... And why mad? Because the karma means you are creating another body. And as soon as there is another body, dehantara-praptir, so long you have got this material body, you'll suffer. That is the law of nature. Karmanu bandhah. Yavan priti mayi deve... tavat karmanu bandhanah. The karmanu-bandha will continue. Therefore in the sastra it is recommended, yajnarthe karma anyatra karma-bandhanah. Don't act anything except for the satisfaction of Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness movement. If you do anything for your sense gratification, that means you are being bound up by the laws of karma. Laws of karma, it is very strict according to the modes of activities. Purusah prakrti-stho hi bhunkte karma-jan gunan [Bg. 13.22].

So we should be very much careful not to be afflicted by the karma. Karmanu bandha. This is very delicate task. Simply... [break] ...but they do not know what is the importance of the varnasrama-dharma. They have broken it. They don't like. They want to say classless society. Classless society cannot be. Even in Russia, the Communist country, they wanted to break down the classless society, but they cannot manage. They have now created a manager class and the worker class. Why manager class? Make it classless. But that is not possible. Therefore in the society there must be managers and the workers. Without this you cannot work, you cannot make, keep any systematic... So managers... The varnasrama-dharma: the managers, the brahmanas and the ksatriyas; and the workers, the vaisyas and the sudras. And less than that, less than the sudras, the candalas, they have to be fully controlled, kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa [SB 2.4.18], because they do not know the regulative principles of life. They are called candalas. So they are described in the sastra. So the ksatriyas, they used to keep these candalas under full control. Otherwise the society would be lost.

Unfortunately, there is no ksatriya, there is no brahmana, there is no control of the candalas, and the whole world is in chaotic condition. So the Krsna consciousness movement is an attempt. Because the candalas are majority and we are very minority. But still little portion of good thing is still good, and large amount of bad thing, that is bad. That is not good.

So here it is stated that people who are lowest amongst men and bewildered by the illusory energy... This is bewildered. What is that bewilderment? They are trying to be happy by material adjustment. Just this morning we were discussing of the air crash. It is very good to fly in the air, but at any moment the whole plane may be crashed and all of them finished. So this kind of material adjustment will not help us. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. This is illusory, or maya sukha. Prahlada Maharaja regrets, tato vimukha-cetasa maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [SB 7.9.43]. Any moment everything will be crushed. This is called maya-sukha. And still they are wasting time, that for maya-sukhaya, illusion. They'll not be happy. Any moment everything can be crushed, and they are busy.

Therefore this modern civilization is most dangerous civilization, soul-killing civilization. The human being got the chance of understanding God, but they are being refused by the authorities to understand God. Rather, if somebody wants to understand, he is checked, he is harassed by the name of brain-washing and mind control. This is Kali-yuga.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.6.10 -- Bombay, December 28, 1976

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