Similarly, there are different
processes for getting out of the reaction of sinful activities, but you..., we
take it. But if we again commit those sinful activities, then what is the use of
such penance or prayascitta? Hasti-snana. The example is given as hasti-snana.
Take, for example, it is said by chanting Hare Krsna mantra one is released from
all sinful activities immediately. Eka hari nama yata papa kare, papi haya tato
papa kari bare nare. It is a fact. Just like Ajamila. His whole life was full of
sinful activities, but at the time of death, because he uttered the holy name of
Narayana, he became immediately released. That's a fact. But if we commit again
sinful activities, then what is the use of chanting Hare Krsna mantra? Namno
balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. This is one of the ten offenses. If anyone thinks
that "I am chanting Hare Krsna mantra. It is reacting all the effects of my
sinful life. Then again I can commit and chant Hare Krsna. It is very good
business..." No. That is great offense. Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. One
should not indulge in such a way. Jagai-Madhai was accepted by Lord Caitanya
only on the promise that they would not commit any more any sinful activities.
Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mercy is there for everyone. He can accept everyone.
One who is sinful, that is not disqualification. Because in this age, Kali-yuga,
more or less, everyone is sinful. Then nobody can be claimed to be liberated by
chanting Hare Krsna mantra. Hare Krsna mantra will give you, give you relief
from all sinful activities, provided you don't commit it again. Otherwise, it
will be like hasti-snana, the example of the elephant, and it will be a great
offense. If on the strength of chanting Hare Krsna mantra we continue to commit
sinful activities, that is great offense. We should not do that. The idea is by
chanting Hare Krsna mantra, we become free from the reaction of sinful life, but
that does not mean we shall again indulge in sinful life and counteract it by
chanting Hare Krsna mantra. No. Not like that. Once you take to Hare Krsna
mantra, you should make rapid progress, without committing any sinful activity,
and retard the progress. Don't do that. Go on.
Pradyumna: "There is another evidence in the Fourth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Twenty-second Chapter, 37th verse, wherein Sanat-kumara says: 'My dear King, the false ego of a human being is so strong that it keeps him in material existence as if tied up by a strong rope. Only the devotees can cut off the knot of this strong rope very easily, by engaging themselves in Krsna consciousness. Others, who are not in Krsna consciousness but are trying to become great mystics or great ritual performers, cannot advance like the devotees. Therefore it is the duty of everyone to engage himself in the activities of Krsna consciousness in order to be freed from the tight knot of false ego and engagement in material activities.' "
Prabhupada: Bhaja vasudeva. There is a verse like that, that as by taking shelter at the lotus feet of Vasudeva, Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one can get released from all kinds of material tribulations, such kind of immunization is not possible by practicing yoga, tapasya, jnana. This is the statement in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. In all ways, it is recommended that we have to, we should take shelter...
samasrita ye pada-pallava-plavam
mahat-padam punya-yaso murareh
bhavambudhir vatsa-padam param padam
padam padam yad vipadam na tesam
[SB 10.14.58]
If one takes shelter of mahat-padam punya-yaso murareh... Murari is Krsna's another name. So punya-yaso, His name is famous as piety. Punya-yaso murari. If anyone takes shelter of His lotus feet, then the great ocean of nescience becomes a small pit, and one can jump over it very easily. Go on.
Pradyumna: "This tight knot of false ego is due to ignorance. As long as one is ignorant about his identification, he is sure to act wrongly and thereby become entangled in material contamination. This ignorance of factual knowledge can also be dissipated by Krsna consciousness, as it is confirmed in the Padma Purana as follows: 'Pure devotional service in Krsna consciousness...' "
Prabhupada: Srila Rupa Gosvami is giving evidences from different Vedic literatures to support his statement. Here is a statement from Padma Purana. Srila Jiva Gosvami, in his Tattva-sandarbha, has proved it, without any doubt, that the Puranas are supplementary to Vedas. They are... Just like Upanisads is part and parcel of the Vedas, similarly, Puranas are also part and parcel of the Vedic literature. There are philosophers, the Mayavadi philosophers, they do not accept Puranas as Vedic literature, but Srila Jiva Gosvami has proved in his Tattva-sandarbha, in the beginning, that Puranas, Mahabharata, itihasa-purana, they are part and parcel of the Vedic literature. Supplementary. Purana means that which supplements. So evidences from Purana is as good as the evidence from the Vedic quotation. That is the verdict of Srila Jiva Gosvami. Srila Jiva Gosvami is not prepared to accept any statement which does not refer to the Vedic literatures: Vedas, Puranas, Upanisads, Mahabharata, Ramayana, like that. Srila Rupa Gosvami also says in another place, sruti-smrti-puranadi-
Pradyumna: " 'Pure devotional service in Krsna consciousness is the highest enlightenment, and when such enlightenment is there, it is just like a blazing forest fire, killing all the inauspicious snakes of desire.' The example is being given in this connection that when there is a forest fire, the extensive blazing automatically kills all the snakes in the forest. There are many, many snakes on the ground of the forest, and when a fire takes place, it burns the dried foliage, and the snakes are immediately attacked. Animals who have four legs can flee from the fire or can at least try to flee, but the snakes are immediately killed. Similarly, the blazing fire of Krsna consciousness is so strong that the snakes of ignorance are immediately killed."
Prabhupada: Go on.
Pradyumna: " 'Krsna Consciousness is All-Auspicious.' Srila Rupa Gosvami has given a definition of auspiciousness."
Prabhupada: The snakes, kala-sarpa, indriya. Prabodhananda Sarasvati has explained about these kala-sarpas, snake... Our senses are compared with the snakes. Just like a snake, as soon as it touches somebody, it kills. It is very dangerous, touching by the lip of the snake. Similarly, a, a slight sense gratification is so dangerous, kala-sarpa indriya-patali, especially in the sex matter. So one... Yogis, they are training the senses how to restrain them from sense gratification, but a devotee, on account of their senses being engaged in the service of the Lord, there is no poisonous effect of the senses. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Krsna's another name is Hrsikesa. Ratham sthapaya acyuta. Hrsikesa. In the Bhagavad-gita, this word is used, Hrsikesa. So Hrsikesa means "the master of the senses." Actually, our senses are given by Krsna. We wanted a type of instrument to enjoy certain type of material enjoyment, and Krsna has given us senses. Actually, the proprietor of the senses is Krsna; therefore His name is Hrsikesa, "master of the senses." So if we actually use the senses for the service of the proprietor of the senses, that is bhakti. Do not..., we do not want to stop the activities of the senses, but it is, they are used for the purpose of the sense proprietor, Hrsikesa. That is called bhakti. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means don't use the senses for sense gratification. Apply the senses for the satisfaction of the proprietor of the senses. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Srila Rupa Gosvami has given a definition of auspiciousness. He says that actual auspiciousness means welfare activities for all the people of the world."
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like this Krsna consciousness movement: it is welfare activities for all the people of the world. It is not a sectarian movement, not only for the human being, but also for the animals, birds, beasts, trees, everyone. This discussion was made by Haridasa Thakura with Lord Caitanya. In that statement, Haridasa Thakura affirmed it that by chanting Hare Krsna mantra loudly, the trees, the birds, the beasts -- everyone -- will be benefited. This is the statement of Namacarya Haridasa Thakura. So when we chant Hare Krsna mantra loudly, it is beneficial for everyone. This statement was put forward in Melbourne in the court. The, the court inquired that "Why do you chant Hare Krsna mantra loudly in the street?" The reply we gave that "Just to benefit all the people." Actually, it is the fact. Of course, now there is no prosecution by the state. We are chanting very freely on the streets. That is the benefit. If we chant Hare Krsna mantra, it benefits everyone, not only human beings. My Guru Maharaja used to say if somebody complained that "We go and chant, but nobody attends our meeting," so Guru Maharaja would reply that "Why? The four walls will hear you. That is sufficient. Don't be disappointed. Go on chanting. If there are four walls, they will hear. That's all." So chanting is so effective that it benefits even the animals, beasts, birds, insects, everyone. Go on. This is the best welfare activity. In the human society there are welfare activities for some society or nation or community or human being. But this welfare activity is beneficial not only to the human society but to the birds, beasts, tree, animal, everyone. This is the best, supermost welfare activity in the world, spread Krsna consciousness. Go on.
Pradyumna: "At the present moment groups of people are engaged in welfare activities in terms of society, community or nation. There is even an attempt in the form of the United Nations for world-help activity. But due to the shortcomings of limited national activities, such a general mass welfare program for the whole world is not practically possible. The Krsna consciousness movement, however, is so nice that it can render the highest benefit to the entire human race. Everyone can be attracted by this movement, and everyone can feel the result. Therefore Rupa Gosvami and other learned scholars agree that a broad propaganda program for the Krsna consciousness movement of devotional service all over the world is the highest humanitarian welfare activity."
Prabhupada: Go on.
Pradyumna: "How the Krsna consciousness movement can attract the attention of the whole world and how each and every man can feel pleasure in this Krsna consciousness is stated in the Padma Purana as follows: 'A person who is engaged in devotional service in full Krsna consciousness is to be understood to be doing the best service to the whole world and to be pleasing everyone in the world. In addition to human society, he is pleasing even the trees and animals because they also become attracted by such a movement.' A practical example of this was shown by Lord Caitanya when He was traveling through the forest of Jharikhanda in central India for spreading His sankirtana movement. The tigers, the elephants, the deer and all other wild animals joined Him and were participating in their own ways, by dancing and chanting Hare Krsna."
Prabhupada: Yes. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu was passing through the forest of Jharikhanda, in central India, the, all the animals joined with Him. Of course, He's Krsna Himself. But if one becomes purified, there is no question that... All animals, living entities, would join in sankirtana movement. There is evidence. But one must be very sincere and powerful preacher. If we cannot preach in the, in the society of the animals, we can preach at least in the human societies, who are supposed to be uncivilized or very lower status of life. Actually, it is so happening. In Africa also, our men are going interior in the village. They are almost naked, these Africans -- we have got pictures -- with big, big earring. So they are also, their children, and they also dance in Krsna consciousness, in the Hare Krsna chanting. This is the wonderful movement, that anyone can take part. We see the children take part, the dogs take part, the so-called uncivilized men, they also take part. This is the universality of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement.
prthivite acheyata nagaradi grama
sarvatra pracara haibe more nama
So it is (the) Lord's prediction, and that is fact. Simply we have to serve the Lord and execute His mission. That will make our life successful.
Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => The
Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, November 7, 1972
The Nectar of Devotion
--
Vrndavana, November 8, 1972
--
Vrndavana, November 8, 1972
Prabhupada: ...stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta:
nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya
The Krsna consciousness is a fact in everyone's heart. It is already there. Otherwise how these Europeans and Americans, they're taking to Krsna consciousness very seriously? So it is to be understood that Krsna consciousness was there already. By the process of hearing, sravanadi-suddha-citte, process of hearing... As Caitanya Mahaprabhu has recommended: ceto-darpana-marjanam param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Sri-krsna-sankirtanam is so auspicious that the chanting of this mantra awakens the dormant Krsna consciousness. Ceto-darpana-marjanam. The more you hear Hare Krsna mantra, the more your heart becomes cleansed. These are the statements given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. There cannot be any defect. My statement may be defective, but Caitanya Mahaprabhu's statement cannot be defective, because He is in the transcendental platform. He is transcendence Himself. Krsna-caitanya-namne. Krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namine. He's Krsna Himself, but He has appeared in the form of Krsna Caitanya. Therefore, whatever He says, that is fact. Ceto-darpana-marjanam. The more we hear the vibration, the transcendental vibration, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, without any offense... Even with, mixed with offense... There are three stages of chanting this vibration: offensive chanting, and almost offenseless chanting, and offenseless chanting. Offensive chanting may give you material pains and pleasures, and almost offenseless will give you liberation, will place you in the transcendental platform. And when it is offenseless, then immediately you'll invoke love of God, Krsna-prema. So even in offensive stage, if you go on chanting and try to be, try to become safe from offensive condition... Dasa-vidha-nama, ten kinds of offenses, if we avoid, that is the process of auspicity. But even we are not in the platform of offenseless chanting, still, we must go on chanting. It will gradually make our heart cleansed and we'll be offenseless. Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So the Krsna consciousness, awakening of Krsna consciousness, is required. That is called ceto-darpana-marjanam.
So here, Rupa Gosvami says auspicity means that which spreads for everyone, in all parts of the world. That is auspicity. Not partial. In politics or sociology or humanitarian activities, there is partiality for a certain section of human being, or certain section of living beings. But this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra, awakening Krsna consc..., dormant Krsna consciousness, is meant for all living entities. Even birds, beasts, insects, they can also awaken. This is the recommendation of Haridasa Thakura, that if we chant loudly, the trees will hear, the birds will hear, the insect will hear, and they will be liberated. That is the statement of Namacarya Haridasa Thakura. Therefore chanting of Hare Krsna mantra and awakening of dormant Krsna consciousness is the auspicious activities, welfare activities, for every living entity all over the world. Read.
Acyutananda: "At the present moment, groups of people are engaged in welfare activities in terms of society, community or nation. There is even an attempt in the form of the United Nations for world-help activity. But due to the shortcomings of limited national activities, such a general mass welfare program for the whole world is not practically possible. The Krsna consciousness movement, however, is so nice that it can render the highest benefit to the entire human race. Everyone can be attracted by this movement, and everyone can feel the result."
Prabhupada: Yes. Now the human welfare activities are now developed in the form of United Nations. They are tackling various subject matter, but still, it is not possible. They are trying for the last twenty years, but still, even the nations have not become united, what to speak of other welfare activities. It is just a comparison, a little comparison, but this Krsna consciousness movement was started, practically, from 1967. I went there in 1965, and for one year I could not do anything. In 1966 this movement was registered in New York, and from 1966 it is spreading. So within four or five years it has spread all over the world. We have got branches in every part of the globe. And at least, these people know there is a movement, Krsna consciousness, and we are welcome everywhere as Krsna conscious people, "Hare Krsna People." Our name is "Hare Krsna People." So people may take note of it that within a short period, it has spread so widely. In comparison to United Nations, what we are? We have no money. We have no means. We have no influence. We have no government support. Nothing of the sort. But still, it is spreading.
So yad yad acarati srestha lokas tad anuvartate, tat tat eva itarah janah [Bg. 3.21]. According to this formula, if the leaders of the society takes this movement little seriously... They should take, because this is the only movement which can bring in peace and prosperity and happiness to the whole human society. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita:
bhoktaram yajna-tapasam
sarva-loka-mahesvaram
suhrdam sarva-bhutanam
jnatva mam santim rcchati
[Bg. 5.29]
People are after santi. This is the formula of santi. We have to accept Krsna as the supreme enjoyer. Not we are enjoyer. At the present moment, all our activities are going on, self-centered: "I am enjoyer. I am leader. I am bhokta." No. This is wrong. Krsna is bhokta. Krsna is leader. Krsna is the friend. Krsna is the proprietor. That is Krsna consciousness. This news, this idea, should be spread all over the world. Then automatically, very easily, all the nations will be united. Because Krsna consciousness acceptance means ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The difficulty is the members in the United Nations, they assemble together, but their heart is not clean. They meet together with unclean heart; therefore there is no solution. Whereas Krsna consciousness means those who are meeting on the platform of Krsna consciousness, they are meeting in cleansed heart. That is the difference. Ceto-darpana-marjanam. Therefore that unity is very solid and sound. And with unclean heart, if we meet, officially, there is no possibility of unity. United Nations, it may be, in the name, but in fact, in fact it cannot be established. Go on.
Acyutananda: "Therefore Rupa Gosvami and other learned scholars agree that a broad propaganda program for the Krsna consciousness movement of devotional service all over the world is the highest humanitarian welfare activity."
Prabhupada: Rupa Gosvami has recommended:
yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet
sarve vidhi-nisedha syur etayor eva kinkarah
His mission is, somehow or other, try to people..., try to engage people in Krsna consciousness, they may think of Krsna, some way or other. Then regulate them, after that. Actually our, this Krsna consciousness movement, has attained little success on this principle. When we began this movement we never asked people that "You have to do this; you have to do that." No. "Please come and hear Hare Krsna mantra." This was our policy. Never mind what you are. You may be Christian. You may be Jews. You may be Muhammadan or Hindu, Muslim. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Please come and join with us, the Hare Krsna chanting. Actually, that has become successful. In Tompkins Square, I was sitting underneath a tree and chanting this Hare Krsna mantra alone. And these young men, they used to assemble and dance also in the tune, for three hours -- from two to five. In this way, we got our followers, associates. And gradually it developed into organization. So in the beginning we did not impose so many rules and regulations. There is no rules and regulations. First thing required: ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Unless one's heart is cleansed, he cannot accept rules and regulations. That is not possible. Cora nasane dharme khaih (?). If, if a man is thief, and if you give him moral instruction, that "Stealing is very sinful; do not do it," he will not care for it. A butcher, if you advise him that "Animal killing is very bad. It is sinful," he'll not accept it. That is not possible. His heart should be cleansed. Prayascittam vimarsanam.
In the Srimad-Bhagavatam the, the process of prayascitta, atonement, is discussed, and Sukadeva Gosvami has recommended that this process of prayascitta, ritualistic ceremony... After committing some sinful activities to counteract it, there are, in every sastra there is some counteracting formulas. The people generally follow that. In Christian religion also, there is confession, atonement. A sinful man goes to the church and confesses. Similarly, in every religion, there is such atonement process, but Pariksit Maharaja refused to accept this atonement process. He protested that a man commits sinful activities and executes some atonement process -- again he commits the same thing. Then what is the use of this atonement? So Sukadeva Gosvami understood it because he was a serious student. And Sukadeva Gosvami was also a serious teacher. So he then said, "No. Atonement process cannot rectify one. Only prayascittam vimarsanam. One must be thoughtful. One must be in knowledge. Then he can give up sinful activities." So he recommended the process of knowledge. Tapasa brahmacaryena tyagena yamena niyamena [SB 6.1.13]. These are the processes.
So in this age, especially Kali-yuga, even we cannot perform this tapasya, brahmacarya, tyaga, yama, sama, dama... It is not possible. It is possible not for everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given a short-cut formula, this
harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
[Cc. Adi 17.21]
And that is being effective practically. We see, all over the world, because it is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's blessings:
iha haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomara
kali-kale nama vinu gati nahi ara
So that is recommended by Sukadeva Gosvami also:
kaler dosa-nidhe rajann
asti hy eko mahan gunah
kirtanad eva krsnasya
mukta-sangah param vrajet
[SB 12.3.51]
"Simply by chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra, one becomes liberated from the resultant action of sinful life, and at length he is promoted, param vrajet..." Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. This is the process. So this Krsna consciousness movement, Hare Krsna movement, should be spread. And that is actually auspicity for all people, all over the world. Go on.
Acyutananda: "How the Krsna consciousness movement can attract the attention of the whole world and how each and every man can feel the pleasure of this Krsna consciousness is stated in the Padma Purana as follows: 'A person who is engaged in devotional service in full Krsna consciousness is to be understood to be doing the best service to the whole world and to be pleasing everyone in the world.' "
Prabhupada: Yes. This is statement in the Padma Purana. And many other Puranas, Vedic literatures, the same thing is confirmed. But simply by taking shelter of Mukunda, one can be free from all types of obligation. Devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam pitrnam [SB 11.5.41]. There are so many obligations. We have obligation to perform to satisfy the demigods; the great sages; general human society; pitrnam, the pitrs, forefathers. So many obligation. But one who takes shelter of Mukunda, he has no other, no more obligation. Nayam rni na kinkara rajan. Simply by... Just like watering the root of the tree, you can satisfy the trunks, the branches, the twigs, the leaves, the flowers, everything. Similarly, sarvarhanam acyutejya. Simply by executing devotional service, you can execute all other obligations without any deviation. Go on.
Acyutananda: "In addition to human society, he is pleasing even the trees and animals, because they also become attracted by such a movement.' A practical example of this was shown by Lord Caitanya when He was traveling through the forests of Jharikhanda in central India for spreading His sankirtana movement. The tigers, the elephants, the deer and all other wild animals joined Him and were participating, in their own ways, by dancing and chanting Hare Krsna."
Prabhupada: Yes. Caitanya Mahaprabhu practically exhibited that hari-nama sankirtana, krsna-kirtana, can attract even animals, tigers, elephants. They also join with Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Of course, His power, our power is not the same. But there is potency. The potency... The potency, as we become powerful, gradually, by chanting Hare Krsna mantra, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has shown that one can come to the stage of enchanting the forest animals also. Go on.
Acyutananda: "Furthermore, a person engaged in Krsna consciousness, acting in devotional service, can develop all the good qualities that are generally found in the demigods. It is said by Sukadeva Gosvami in the Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Eighteenth Chapter, 12th verse, 'My dear King, persons who have unflinching faith in Krsna and are without any duplicity can develop all the good qualities of the demigods.' "
Prabhupada: Yes. A devotee can develop all the good qualities of the demigods -- immediately. Because ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. As soon as the heart is cleansed... Because the soul, as he is, he's pure. Asango hy ayam purusah. The spirit soul is not contaminated or does not associate with the material modes of nature. It is simply an illusion, misidentification. Just like water and oil does not mix, but it appears that oil is fallen in the water, similarly, although we are in this material world, in the material consciousness, our identity is not actually in material consciousness. It is simply... Just like dreaming. The example is dreaming. Just like in dream I see so many hallucinations. Actually, dream is false. I am separate from the dream. But while dreaming, I think I am actually enjoying or suffering. Similarly, by the association of the modes of material nature, we are thinking like that. Otherwise, we are free from the contamination of the material nature. Simply by changing the consciousness, immediately we can transfer ourself to the spiritual platform. So the more we become advanced in Krsna consciousness, our original characteristics, which are very pure, they become manifest. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. The factual example is here, these European and American boys. They were addicted to so many nonsense habits, but since they have taken to Krsna consciousness they have given up all these nonsense habits immediately, without any very great endeavor. So this is the fact. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra. Pure character, pure qualities will be manifest. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. Similarly, just the opposite: if one is not a devotee of Krsna, he cannot have any good qualities, however he may be educated academically. That is not possible. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. Therefore, at the present moment, although the leaders are all very educated academically, but still, they cannot bring in peace in the society, because they're godless. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. Great, great leaders, on account of their godlessness, they cannot lead the people nicely. Therefore there is no peace and prosperity in the society. Go on.
Acyutananda: "Furthermore, a person engaged in Krsna consciousness, acting in devotional service..." Oh. "It is said by Sukadeva Gosvami, 'On account of a devotee's high grade of Krsna consciousness, even the demigods like to live with him, and therefore it can be understood that the qualities of the demigods have developed within his body.' On the other hand, a person who is not in Krsna consciousness has no good qualities. He may be highly educated from the academic point of view, but in the actual field of his activities he can be seen to be baser than the animals."
Prabhupada: Yes. We see sometimes one man who is very educated, highly, university educated, but practical life -- baser than animal. Because he, he has no Krsna consciousness. He's not a devotee of Krsna. A devotee of Krsna cannot be like that. Go on.
Acyutananda: "Even though a person is highly educated academically, if he cannot go beyond the sphere of mental activities, then he is sure to perform only material activities and thus remain impure."
Prabhupada: Yes. Our so-called advancement of education means to live on the mental platform. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna manorathena [SB 5.18.12]. They have no information of the spiritual platform. They... After bodily concept of life, the next platform is mental and intellectual concept of life. But spiritual life is beyond mental and intellectual concept of life. So unless one comes to the spiritual platform, even on mental and intellectual platform, he cannot do anything good to the society. Hm.
Acyutananda: "There are so many persons in the modern world who have been highly educated in the materialistic universities, but it is seen that they cannot take up the movement of Krsna consciousness and develop the high qualities of the demigods."
Prabhupada: Go on.
Acyutananda: "For example, a Krsna conscious boy, even if he is not very well educated by the university standard, can immediately give up all illicit sex life, gambling, meat-eating and intoxication, whereas those who are not in Krsna consciousness, although very highly educated, are often drunkards, meat-eaters, sex-mongers and gamblers."
Prabhupada: Yes, this is... There is a practical example in this connection. Lord Zetland. He was a great philosopher, and he was governor of Bengal, and many good posts he held. But sometimes one of our Godbrothers went in London to preach, and this Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland, he asked the Gosvami that whether he could make him a brahmana. So he said yes, he could be made a brahmana, provided he can give up these habits: illicit-sex, gambling, meat-eating and intoxication. The honorable Lord replied: "It is impossible. It is impossible." So actually, unless one is trained into Krsna consciousness, it is not a very easy thing to give up all these bad habits. But practically we see, because these boys, these European, American boys, they have taken to Krsna consciousness very seriously, without any external endeavour, they have been able to give up all these bad habits. Go on.
Acyutananda: "These are practical proofs of how a Krsna conscious person becomes highly developed in good qualities, whereas a person who is not in Krsna consciousness cannot do so. We experience that even a young boy in Krsna consciousness is unattached to cinemas, night clubs, naked dance shows, restaurants, liquor shops, etc. He becomes completely freed. He saves his valuable time from being extravagantly spent in the way of smoking, drinking, and attending the theater and dancing. One who is not in Krsna consciousness usually cannot sit silently for even half an hour."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is also another symptom, restlessness. A Krsna conscious person can sit down in one place. Just like Haridasa Thakura. He was chanting Hare Krsna mantra, sitting one place, day and night. There is not a single example in the world that one can sit down, I mean to say, ordinary persons. They cannot. They must be restless. But Krsna consciousness is so nice that one can sit down in one place. Of course, it is not to be imitated. It is to be attained. Anywhere. Just like Gosvamis. They used to live underneath a tree one night. So these things are possible when one is advanced in Krsna consciousness. Go on.
Acyutananda: "The yoga system teaches that if you become silent, you will realize that you are God. This system may be all right for materialistic persons, but how long will they be able to keep themselves silent? Artificially, they may sit down for so-called meditation, but immediately after their yogic performance, they will engage themselves again in such activities as illicit sex life, gambling, meat-eating and many other nonsensical things. But a Krsna conscious person gradually elevates himself without endeavoring for this so-called silent meditation."
Prabhupada: Actually, yoga practice means yoga indriya-samyamah. The whole yogic process, astanga-yoga, is meant for controlling the senses. Durdanta indriya-kala-patali. Indriya, the senses, are just like snakes. As it is very difficult to enchant the snakes, similarly, it is very difficult to control the senses. And the yoga system (is) especially meant for controlling the senses, controlling the mind, and then concentrate on the form of Visnu. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. This is yoga process. But practically we see the so-called yogis, or student of yoga class, I have seen in Western countries, they are habituated to all these nonsense habits -- illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating. Still, they're passing on as yogis. So that kind of yoga will not help. Go on.
Acyutananda: "Simply because he is engaged in Krsna consciousness, he automatically gives up all this nonsense and develops a high character. One develops the highest character by becoming a pure devotee of Krsna. The conclusion is that no one can truly have any good qualities if he is lacking Krsna consciousness."
Prabhupada: Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. This is the conclusion, that if one is not Krsna conscious, we do not accept him as highly qualified. That is the statement of Krsna Himself in the Bhagavad-gita:
na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuri-bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]
So we take this formula. If... We test whether he has surrendered to Krsna. If not, then he comes to the four groups: duskrtina, mudha, naradhama, mayaya apahrta-jnana. We take it, immediately. He must be one of them, either duskrtina or mudha or all, naradhama, mayaya apahrta. He may be... Mayaya apahrta-jnana means he might be highly educated academically, but maya has taken away his knowledge. Asuri-bhavam asritah. Because he has taken to the principle of atheism, all these educational qualifications, or sharp brain... Krtinah... Duskrtina means... Krtina means one who has got very sharp brain, sharp memory; he's called krti. But on account of association with maya, his brain is utilized for doing something harmful to the human society. They, they cannot do anything good to the human society. That is not possible. Then?
Acyutananda: " 'Happiness In Krsna Consciousness.' Srila Rupa Gosvami has analyzed the different sources of happiness. He has divided happiness into three categories, which are (1) happiness derived from material enjoyment, (2) happiness derived by identifying oneself with the Supreme Brahman, and (3) happiness derived from Krsna consciousness. In the Tantra-sastra, Lord Siva speaks to his wife, Sati, in this way: 'My dear wife, a person who has surrendered himself at the lotus feet of Govinda and who has thus developed pure Krsna consciousness can be very easily awarded all the perfections desired by the impersonalists; and beyond this, he can enjoy the happiness achieved by the pure devotees.' "
Prabhupada: Go on.
Acyutananda: "Happiness derived from pure devotional service is the highest because it is eternal, but the happiness derived from material perfection or understanding oneself to be Brahman is inferior because it is only temporary. There is no preventing one's falling down from material happiness, and there is even every chance of falling down from the spiritual happiness derived from identifying oneself with the impersonal Brahman."
Prabhupada: Yes. Happiness, it is our experience that happiness derived from material enjoyment, that is not permanent. That we can understand. But happiness of identifying oneself with Brahman, aham brahmasmi, nirbheda-brahmanusandhana, that happiness is also not permanent. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah anadrta yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. Aruhya krcchren... By great austerity, auspici..., and penance, one may rise up to the platform of Brahman realization, param padam. Aruhya krcchrena param padam patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Again he falls down. We have seen many big, big sannyasi. they give up this world as brahma satyam jagan mithya, false. But after some time, when they cannot actually realize Brahman, they again come to this jagat for humanitarian work, for welfare activities. If jagat is mithya, then why do they come again to this welfare activity? So jagat is not mithya, but it is temporary. We do not say mithya. Vaisnava philosophers, they do not accept the jagat as mithya. Why? If it is emanation from the Absolute Truth, it must be true. It is not mithya, but we accept it as temporary. We do not accept as permanent. The permanent jagat is the spiritual world. Paras tasmat tu bhavah anyah [Bg. 8.20]. There is another spiritual world; that is sanatana, that is permanent. This world is not permanent. So even though it is not permanent, it can be utilized for the service of the Lord. Nirbandhe krsna-sambandhe yukta-vairagyam ucyate. That is our philosophy. We don't take the jagat as mithya; we take it as fact, because it is emanation from the supreme fact.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => The
Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, November 8, 1972
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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