Pradyumna: (reading) "Bhakti-rasa, however, the mellow
relished in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, does not finish with
the end of life. It continues perpetually and is therefore called amrta, that
which does not die, but exists eternally."
Prabhupada: This is the importance of Krsna consciousness, that in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said:
tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer
bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim
ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah
[SB 1.5.17]
Just like sometimes they say that the, in this movement, just like the cinema, the hippies are joining. Accepting that hippies are... Hippies means they're useless. They are joining. Bhagavata says that those who are very dutiful, they are called sva-dharma nistha. Sva-dharma nistha. According to Vedic culture, there are different divisions of the society. Brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha. So these are called sva-dharma, means, engaged in one's occupational duty. That is called sva-dharma. Or, in the modern sense, somebody's engaged in business, somebody's engaged in other occupation, profession. There are...
Every man has got some engagement. That's a fact. So Bhagavata says that: tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer [SB 1.5.17]. Anyone, even by sentiment, or by any reason, he gives up his own occupational duty and takes shelter of Krsna, or joins this Krsna consciousness movement, tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer... All right. If one has joined this Krsna consciousness movement, doing very nicely, he's improving, that's all right. But if he falls down... Because sometimes they come out of sentiment, join this movement and again falls down. Sometimes. Not very occasionally. But there is chance because maya is very strong. One may fall down. Bhagavata says bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi. He's not mature. In immature stage, by some reason or other, if he falls down, then yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim. Then what is the loss there? There is no loss. Suppose he joined out of sentiment and executed devotional service for some time under the direction of the spiritual master, according to the regulations of the sastras, but incidentally, he falls down. He becomes a victim to the maya. Bhagavata says still there is no loss. There is no loss. On the other hand, a person who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, he has not become a devotee, Bhagavata says: "What does he gain?" One who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, doesn't care for Krsna consciousness, then Bhagavata says: "What does he gain?" He doesn't gain anything. But the, that man who joined this Krsna consciousness movement out of sentiment, but immaturely he falls down, he has no loss. This is the...
Try to understand this. Because this Krsna consciousness is the consciousness of the spirit soul. That is reality. Therefore as the soul is eternally, his advancement in that consciousness, that also becomes an eternal asset. That will never be lost. Even if (he) falls down in this life, he could not execute cent percent the duties in Krsna consciousness, even he falls down, so whatever he has done in this life, that becomes a permanent asset. So that, from next life, he'll be given chance. In... In ordinary karmi's life, there is no guarantee that he'll get next life a human body. According to his karma he'll get a body. Maybe animal body or maybe demigod's body. But there is no certainty that he'll get a human body. But this man, who out of sentiment joined in Krsna consciousness movement, and immaturely falls down, he's guaranteed to get a very nice human body.
That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that sucinam srimatam gehe yogo bhrasto sanjayate [Bg. 6.41]. He'll get birth in a family, sucinam. Sucinam means pious brahmana family or devotee's family. He'll get birth. Or in rich family. The second-class will get in rich family. But both these families will give them chance to begin where he ended his Krsna consciousness in the last life. He'll begin from there. That is his opportunity. Therefore there is no loss. His next life as human being is guaranteed. Even if he's fallen down. But the others, who does not take to Krsna consciousness, doing his own duty, but he will get a body according to his karma. Not... That, that is the difference between the karmis and the devotee. Devotee, even if he is not successful to execute the devotional... perfectly, but whatever he has done, ten percent, twenty percent, fifty percent, that is his asset. It will never be lost. That is being stated. Go on.
Pradyumna: "This is confirmed in all Vedic literatures. The Bhagavad-gita says that a little advancement in bhakti-rasa can save the devotee from the greatest danger, that of missing the opportunity for human life."
Prabhupada: Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Just Ajamila. Ajamila in his boyhood, he was very sincere brahmana. He was conducting devotional service under the direction of his father. But in youthhood, he fell down. He became a victim of a prostitute. He forgot everything. He became a rogue, drunkard, meat-eater, woman-hunter, all fallen down. But at the end of life, when he was afraid of the Yamadutas, out of fearfulness he called for his youngest son whose name was Narayana. Because when you are in danger, naturally... Just like a child, cries for the mother. Because mother is the only... Similarly affection is there. Similarly this Ajamila asked for the youngest child: "Narayana." But immediately he remembered that Narayana whom he served in his boyhood. So immediately the Narayana messengers came and saved him. Svalpam apy. He, he executed very little service in his boyhood as a devotee. That saved him from the greatest danger. He was being dragged out by the men of Yamaraja, but the Visnudutas came and protected him and took him to Vaikuntha. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. By by chance, he remembered Narayana because he executed Narayana's service. Then he was saved. Go on.
Pradyumna: "The rasas derived from our feeling in social life, in family life, or in the greater family life of altruism, philanthropism, nationalism, socialism, communism, etc., do not guarantee that one's next life will be as a human being."
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no guarantee. That... Yes. Now today I am very great leader, minister. That's all right. But after death there is no guarantee that you'll become again minister or big man, big business man. There is no such guarantee. That we'll have to accept another body according to your karma. Suppose as business man, I've done very nicely. I have given in charity. That's nice. You get better life. But for business sake, I have earned money by hook and crook, my mentality's just like crocodile or dog; then I have to become a crocodile. That's all. Because after death you are in the hands of nature. You cannot dictate that "Give me this and that body." No. That you have to prepare in this life. If you prepare yourself in this life to go back to home, back to Godhead, you go back to home, back to Godhead. If you prepare your, this life as a crocodile, then you become a crocodile. So God is very kind. Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. So it is your business to what kind of body you are going to get next. Just like the example I was giving last night. That we are staying in this room, and suppose after a month we have to give it up. So we must find out another apartment. It may be better or it may be lower. There is no guarantee. But if we can arrange, we can better apartment than this. And if we cannot, we may go to hellish apartment. This is the way. But for the devotee, at least it is guaranteed that he gets next life as a human being. Not only human being, but in the family of a devotee, or in the family of rich man. These alternatives are there. Then?
Pradyumna: "We prepare our next life by our actual activities in the present life. A living entity is offered a particular type of body as a result of his action in the present body. These activities are taken into account by a superior authority..."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "...known as daiva."
Prabhupada: People do not believe this. They think that everything is going on automatically. No. There is everything, account, witness. The Lord...
Devotee: Too windy? (about fan)
Prabhupada: Yes. Anumanta upadrasta saksini. Saksini. The Lord... Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese [Bg. 18.61]. Everything is being witnessed and that is being recorded. So just like in a office in government service, there is service record, and at the end of the year, everything is considered. So the man is promoted, given some bonus on the proprietor or the directors, they're not meeting that man. But the service record is there. Similarly, whatever we are doing, good or bad, that is being recorded and it is examined. Karmana daiva netrena [SB 3.31.1]. We are acting and there is superior authority. They are examining what kind of body he has to get next. So that, that, that science is not being taught, that what is our next body? They are thinking that there is no next body, there is no life, this life is finished. But that is not the fact. As this life I have changed. I was a child, I got next body, I was a boy, I got next body, I was a you, young man. I got next body. Now I have got this body. So now I will have not this body, I will get next body. Where is the difficulty to understand? I've already experienced the next body, next body, next body. Why not after death next body? That the intelligence is to know what is that next body. That is, my, in my hand.
Just like if you become educated highly your next post is very nice. But if you are not educated, then your next post is not very nice. Similarly if you act in this body very nicely, yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah [Bg. 9.25]. So you can prepare your next life. So our, this Krsna consciousness is next life to go back to Krsna directly. That is our program. How? Simply by knowing Krsna. That's all. Krsna guarantees this: janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. If we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, simply try to understand what is Krsna. And He's explaining in the Bhagavad-gita. But if you foolishly misinterpret Krsna, then you go to hell. But if you understand Krsna as Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, then you go back to Krsna. Where is the difficulty?
The rascals, they will not understand Krsna as Krsna says. The rascal will mislead other and mislead himself. He'll go himself to hell and he'll drag all others to the hell. This is going on. This is going on. Everything is there, very plain and clear. One has to act according to that. He gets the benefit. But they, they will not allow. These rascal leaders, they'll not allow. They will be represent Krsna as something else. The, the only business is to kill Krsna. That's all. Not to accept Krsna is fact. All the big commentaries on Bhagavad-gita, you'll see. They're simply trying to make Krsna is not a fact. It is some fictitious. It is some story, mental speculation. This is their business. Demonic. So the condition is very, I mean to say, dangerous. People are being misled.
We are only... It is not our pride. It is a fact. We are the only institution. We are trying to give the greatest benefit to the human society, the Krsna consciousness. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Anyone who understands, if he understands... It is not possible to understand fully Krsna. Krsna is unlimited. But as, as He represents Himself, Krsna, as He says Himself, if you understand... Krsna says: "I am the origin of everything." You take it. Krsna is the origin of everything. He has proved. Krsna is origin of everything. All the acaryas, big, big acarya accepted Him, Krsna is the origin of everything. Arjuna, who heard Bhagavad-gita, he accepted Him, Krsna is origin. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam [Bg. 10.12]. Why we should try to understand Krsna otherwise? What is this foolishness? But that is their scholarship. That is their knowledge. If somebody can most rascal explain Bhagavad-gita, oh, he's a great scholar. Just see the fun.(?) He's the rascal number one and misleading people, he's great scholar. And we are simply presenting Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna says, Krsna says: "Surrender unto Me." We say surrender to Krsna. "These are primitive. These are primitive." We are not scholars. This is, this rascaldom is going on. So you want to save people from these rascals. That is Krsna consciousness movement. The rascals have created a situation by defying Krsna's authority, atheistic situation, the whole world in chaos. That must be. When there are leaders, only demons, how there can be any peace? The people are also becoming demons. So our, this movement, is very scientific, authorized. If you preach, there is no difficulty. As we, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gita, simply Bhagavad-gita as it is, then you are successful and those who hear you, they also successful. Simply method. Go on.
Pradyumna: "These activities are taken into account by a superior authority known as daiva, or the authority of God. This daiva is explained in the Bhagavad-gita as the prime cause of everything."
Prabhupada: Yes. There are five causes. Karta, the, the doer, the place, the instrument, and providence. In this way, there are five causes for acting anything. Just like you are doing business. So if you are a nice businessman, that's very good asset. If you place your business in a market place, there is good opportunity. If you have got sufficient capital, good instrument, and if God is favorable, then your business is successful. Similarly in anything there are five causes. And the ultimate cause is daiva. You may make everything very nicely. You may become, may be very business, a good business man, you have got sufficient capital, you are conducting your business in a very nice center, downtown, everything, but if God is not favorable, then everything will be spoiled. Everything will be spoiled. So therefore this cause, favorable. Of course, God is kind to everyone. But, but we see sometimes that everything is perfectly done, but still it is spoiled.
Just like a man. A man is suffering from some disease, and you have employed first-class physician, first-class medicine, first-class everything, but is still the man dies. What is the cause? The cause is daiva. That in spite of all your endeavors, because God does not like that he should live, you cannot save him. You cannot save him. The same example, again I want to give. That Titanic. They made the ship very strong, and they were so assured that all the big men, they, they were on board that Titanic ship. There was first journey and immediately Atlantic Ocean, they smashed. That's a great incidence. Therefore this is a fact, that you may arrange everything very nicely, according to your best knowledge, but if God is unfavorable, then you cannot do it. Daiva. Na ca daiva param balam. Therefore it is said there is no other superior strength than daiva. One has to accept this. Go on.
Pradyumna: "In the, and in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that a man takes his next body by daiva-netrena which means by the supervision of the authority of the Supreme. In an ordinary sense, daiva..."
Prabhupada: Daiva-netrena. So we have to get our body next according the superior, daiva. Superior means God's, God's arrangement. God is witnessing what kind of body I will have. Then?
Pradyumna: "In an ordinary sense, daiva is explained as destiny. Daiva supervision gives us a body selected from eight million, four hundred thousand forms."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The choice does not depend on our selection..."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "...but is awarded to us according to our destiny."
Prabhupada: You cannot say that "I am Indian. I have got my love for India. And I'll get again birth as Indian leader." You, you may get birth in India because you have got strong attachment, but it may not be as leader. It may be as cats and dogs. Or cows or goat. Then you'll be sent to the slaughterhouse, you, even though you are Indian. Or any country, American... So these are simply sentiments. This is, this is, there is no use... But people do not know this science. They think that "I am doing right as philanthropist, as nationalist, as..." But you, he, he forgets that he's under the full control of material nature. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot plan. The ultimate plan is sanctioned by God, or by His agent, the prakrti. You cannot make your plan. You get the result of your present activity. Karma phala. Go on.
Pradyumna: "If our body at present is engaged in the activities of Krsna consciousness, then it is guaranteed that we will have at least a human body in our next life. A human being engaged in Krsna consciousness, even if unable to complete the course of bhakti yoga is, allowed take birth in the higher division of human society so that he can automatically further his advancement in Krsna consciousness. Therefore all bona fide activities in Krsna consciousness are amrta, or permanent."
Prabhupada: Yes. Amrta. Bhakti-rasamrta. (aside:) What you...? Sit down.
Pradyumna: "This is the subject matter of The Nectar of Devotion."
Prabhupada: Go on.
Pradyumna: "This eternal engagement in bhakti-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Krsna consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life, free from anxieties and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord Krsna. Generally..."
Prabhupada: Bhakti-rasa is better than liberation, mukti. Because generally the Mayavadi philosophers, jnani-sampradaya, they consider mukti means to merge into the spiritual existence, Brahman. Brahma-sayujya-mukti, to, to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence of the Absolute. They consider it, that is the highest. And the Buddha philosophers, they think to make all these activities zero, sunyavadi. Dismantle. Because on account of this combination of matter, earth, water, fire, air, ether, this body's made, and the body is subjected to pains and pleasure on account of this mixture. So Buddha philosophy is that you dismantle this mixture. Let earth go to the earth portion and water portion to the water portion. Then there is no existence of the body, and there is no pains and pleasure. Make it zero. This is called sunyavadi. And the Mayavadi, their philosophy is stop this variegatedness. We are suffering pains and pleasure within this material world on account of these varieties. So these varieties, they are on, built on the foundation of the Supreme Spirit. So merge into the Supreme Spirit and get out of these varieties. This is their philosophy. So the Buddha philosophy or the Mayavada philosophy, they're almost one, because their ultimate goal is to make things zero.
But our philosophy is different. Our philosophy is that as there are varieties in this material world, there are varieties in the spiritual world. That varieties. Just like the sky. In the sky, there are varieties. There are different kinds of planets, floating in the sky. Ordinarily seeing, in daytime, we see the sky is vacant. How it is vacant? It is not vacant. It is the defect of my eyes that I cannot see the varieties. The vari... At night we can see the varieties. There are so many planets, so many stars. And each of them full of varieties. Just like this planet. It is, we learn from the sastra. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-kotisv asesa-vasudadhi bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. There are innumerable universes. This universe is one only. And each and every universe, there are millions of planets. And each of them has got special significance. Just like this Moon planet, the Sun planet, this Earth planet, each one has got significance. Here, the bodies are earthly. In the Sun planet, the bodies are fire. Fiery. Similarly in the Moon planet, the bodies are different. Each and every planet.
They do not know. They want to go with this body to the Moon planet. That is not possible. Just like if you want to live in the water with this body. That is not possible. You have to get a body suitable for living in the water. So that you have to prepare. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, yanti deva-vrata devan [Bg. 9.25]. These people are going to the Moon planet. Trying to go. They have not gone. But they do not know that with this body they cannot live there. That is not possible. They are, they might be going to the Moon planet in the deserted portion. And they're coming back. But Moon planet is not desert. We get information. It is one of the heavenly planets. So they, they are not going to the right place. That we have suggested in many places. So anyway, there are varieties. As there are varieties within this material world, similarly there are varieties in the spiritual world. This material world is only a reflection of the spiritual world. So unless we merge into, unless we get shelter in one of the planets of the spiritual world, if we simply merge into the Brahman effulgence, we cannot stay there for long.
Just like in the sky. If you simply fly your aeroplane only in the sky, you don't get any shelter in any planet. You'll have to come back again. You'll have to come back again. You cannot stay in the sky. Similarly those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there because we, as living entities, we want a varieties. Just like when I was, when I was travelling in the... Everyone has got experience. Either sky or on the water. So, and for weeks together, simply water, water. And the, on board the ship, it become very much sickness. Is called sea-sickness. As soon as there is some land visible, "Oh, there is land again." Because we want varieties. So those who are trying to merge into the variety-less Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there. That information we get from Srimad-Bhagavatam, aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanti adhah: After great perseverance, austerity, penances, they merge into the Brahman effulgence, but they again fall down. They again fall down.
So that is not our ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to take shelter unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas [SB 10.2.32]. Simply to concoct that I become, I have become liberated. And, that... Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah. They, those who are thinking that they have become liberated simply by merging into the Brahman effulgence, they are avisuddha-buddhayah, they are still, their intelligence is not very clear, not purified. Why? Now, although they have gone there, and thinking that they are liberated, aruhya krcchrena param padam patanti [SB 10.2.32], they'll fall down. They cannot remain there. Because there is no varieties. And our life, because we are living entities, we want varieties. Without varieties, it is hackneyed. We cannot stay there. Therefore they fall down. Those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they fall down. Go on. Therefore a bhakta does not accept the Brahman, brahmananda. Brahmananda, they know. Brahmananda is, there is brahmananda. That is liberation from the material ananda. But unless one is engaged in sevananda, service of the Lord, this brahmananda will not be sufficient to keep him in the spiritual world. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Generally neophyte devotees are anxious to see Krsna or God, but God cannot be seen or known by our present materially blunt senses. The process of devotional service, as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion, will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations. The senses can then become uncontaminated, being constantly in touch with bhakti-rasa. When the purified senses are employed in the service of the Lord, one becomes situated in bhakti-rasa life and any action performed for the satisfaction of Krsna in this transcendental bhakti-rasa stage of life, can be relished perpetually. When one is thus engaged in devotional service, all varieties of rasas or mellows turn into eternity. In the beginning one is trained according to the principles of regulation under the guidance of the acarya or spiritual master. And gradually, when one is elevated, devotional service becomes automatic and spontaneous eagerness to serve Krsna. There are twelve kinds of rasas, as will be ex..."
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like we have seen, we have experience. Sometimes the car becomes blocked. But some fellow pushes it. We have got this experience. What is called that? Chocked up? Then you get, get down and push the car and (makes noise:) brut brut brut, goes. Similarly the bhakti-rasa is there in everyone's heart. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti. Because we, we are part and parcel of Krsna. Just like father and son. A father and son may be separate for many, many, many, many years. But as soon as they meet together, again the same affection comes. Again the same affection comes. Wife and husband. Therefore sannyasi is strictly prohibited to see his wife. Because there is staunch affection. By meeting again that affection. By meeting again that affection may come. He may fall down. Therefore strictly prohibited. At least, other members can be seen. But not the wife. So the fact is that we have got devotion for Krsna. That is fact. But some way or other, we are separated and we have forgotten. So as soon as, by this regulative principle, by the order of the spiritual master, by the injunction of the sastras, we begin devotional service. That, that, just like our students do here. They are offering aratrika. They're offering dress, offering garland. These are the items of arcana. Hearing about Him, chanting about Him. This devotional service is the pushing process. Pushing process. And as soon as the energy comes, then automatically: (makes noise) clak clak clak. No more pushing. Automatically. This pushing process is required.
So just to invoke or revive the dormant Krsna consciousness. Therefore this bhakti process has to be... And Krsna also says: bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. If we, because the simple process is: if you understand Krsna tattvatah, tattvatah, in truth, then your life is successful. As soon as you understand Krsna tattvatah, then tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. You don't, won't have again in this material world. Don't get any material body. You go back home, back to Godhead. And this tattvatah, to understand Krsna, tattvatah, you have to take to the devotional service. This jnana process or the karma process or the yoga process, it can push you little further. But... Just like if you push the car little farther, but unless the energy of the car comes into action, this car will not go. Simply pushing is not sufficient. The car must come to his energy automatically. Then it will go. So that process is bhakti. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. All right. We shall discuss tomorrow. [break]
Woman: ...in the Moon planet, are there bodies like of a more subtle nature so that if they did go there, they wouldn't be able to see them?
Prabhupada: Eh? No. You can see them. They have got material body.
Woman: We could see them with our eyes?
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Why not? The body... Just like in the water, the bodies of the aquatics are different, but you can see them. Why not? If, if, if it is not visible, how you are seeing the Moon planet? You are seeing the Moon planet. So it is visible. Not invisible. Our point is that these people... First of all, whether they are going to the Moon planet, that is doubtful. At least, I am doubtful. Because we get information from the sastra , that there is a planet which is called Rahu. That is very near to Moon. And that Rahu sometimes comes in front of the Moon planet, and that is called candragrahana. Moon, lunar eclipse. So that, that Rahu planet is dark. So they might be going to this Rahu planet, not to the Moon planet. Maybe. Because that is very near. Moon planet is heavenly planet. Heavenly planet. There, there demigods, they live. So we get this information. Or just like if somebody comes to the, this earthly planet and drops in the Arabian desert, he may conclude that this, is desert. But there is Europe, America and nice cities, and nice bungalows. But he has no chance to see them. So these people are going. They had no chance. Maybe they are also diverting them to the deserted portion of the Moon. They are also intelligent. That "These people are coming from Earthly planet unauthorized. So let them diverted to the deserted portion." There are so many things. So therefore... Because if Moon planet is heavenly planet, they're more intelligent than you. If you have got some machine to reach there, they have got some machine to divert you. Why not think like that? That "These rascals are coming here without any immigration license. Let them be diverted to the deserted portion and disappointed they'll go back." So many things are there. Therefore they are not successful. Neither they'll be ever successful. Take it. I may die. But you take it rightly. They'll never be successful. I have already written these things in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. This is childish. It is not possible.
Devotee: This, is there earth in their bodies or is their body made out of air?
Prabhupada: No. These bodies are five elements. Earth, air, water, air, fire, ether. The subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. So in some planet the earthly portion may be major, the fire portion may be major. In some planet the ether portion may be major. But they're all material bodies. They're material bodies. They're not spiritual bodies. Spiritual body is within. Within the universe, anywhere you go, you get the material body, and according to the body, the duration of life is different. Just like a germ's body. That is also material body. And a human body. That is also material body. But a germ takes birth and dies within second or minute. We live for a hundred years. Both of them material bodies. Similarly Brahma has got also material body. Those who are living in the moon planet, they are also material body. In the sun planet, they have got material... But different varieties. They live ten thousand years of their... Daiva. Ten thousand. Daiva means our one six months equal to one day there. Such ten thousand years, they live. That is calculated in the Bhagavad-gita: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17]. So that is twelve hours. Sahasra-yuga. These four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dvapara yugas, they're forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand. That becomes Brahma's twelve hours. So according to the different planet, according to the orbit, the time duration, the, everything is different. A ant's hundred years and my hundred years not the same. It is relative. Atomic. According to the body, according to the size... The, the world, the scientific world also accepts relative world. Everything is... [break]
As soon as your assets of pious activities is finished, then you come back again. Instead of going back to home, you come back again on this Earth. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Going back. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says: ei rupe brahmando bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva. In this way, we are wandering from one life to another, one planet to another. If one is fortunate, he gets the clue of devotional service and makes his life perfect and goes back to home, back to... Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. "One who goes to My abode, he never comes back." This is the perfection. Doctor, Sir you are a scientist. So how do you think our explanation? Does it tally with your scientific...?
Guest (Indian man): Our science has not come to this stage, to explain all these things.
Prabhupada: Yes. Science has no explanation actually.
Guest: For material men like us it is not possible to accept the Vedas. Because we do not know. I do not see. It may not be there. But all we can say that we are still in the dark or ignorant about the...
Prabhupada: But we have to take knowledge from superior authority. I am always not in knowledge. That is my position. But we take knowledge from superior authority. So we are taking knowledge from Krsna, the most superior authority. [break] ...our Vedic system. It is advised, tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the system. Just like you are a medical man. To acquire your knowledge, you had to accept the medical college, the professors. So this is natural. If we want to know something which is not, or which is unknown to me, then we have to accept a guru, a superior man. Guru means superior man. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Guru means "heavy," or "superior." That is the law. So our process of Vedic knowledge is that we get knowledge from the superior just like Brahma, Lord Brahma. He's the first, original creature, within this universe. And he got knowledge from God, Krsna, the Absolute. The Vedas means the knowledge which he heard... Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. So there is sampradaya. Brahma imparted this knowledge to Narada. Narada imparted this knowledge to Vyasadeva. Evam parampara. That, this is our process of knowledge. We get knowledge from the superior. Everyone gets knowledge from the superior. Nobody gets knowledge automatically. That is not possible. So things which are beyond the perception of our senses, how we can get that knowledge? By our mental speculation, it is not, never perfect. We give sometimes this example: Just like we, if we want to know who is my father, that is not possible to know simply by mental speculation. If we approach the authority, mother, we get the knowledge immediately. So knowledge from the authority is perfect. Knowledge by mental speculation is always imperfect. This is our conclusion. If you get knowledge, any knowledge, from the perfect, that knowledge is perfect. And if you get knowledge from imperfect, that knowledge is always imperfect. This is our process. Therefore the Vedas says: tad vijnanartham gurum eva abhigacchet. One must approach the superior who is in knowledge. Then he gets the knowledge. [break]
...sometimes disagree. But the, our point is very strong, that you cannot get perfect knowledge from imperfect person. That is not possible. That's a fact. You can get knowledge only from the perfect. That is real knowledge. The modern scientific knowledge, taking perfection. The next year, again changes. "This theory is changed." So they, they say that this is advancement. We are making progress. This means that whatever knowledge you are making your basis, that is imperfect. Progress means then you have to go to the perfect. That means the knowledge which you possessed, that was imperfect. Again you say... "So from imperfect platform we are going to the perfect." But if we get from the perfect this knowledge, then we get perfect knowledge, from the perfect person. Perfect person means he does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. His senses are not imperfect. And he does not cheat. This is the four points of perfection. Cheating propensity's there. To the imperfect person, there is cheating propensity. He knows that this point, "I'm not very clear, but still he gives some idea." That is cheating. There are so many... Darwin's theory. Others. "Perhaps, it may be." Like this. These words are there, used. What is the use of this "perhaps?" That means imperfect knowledge. "It may be. There is something missing." So how we can believe all this imperfect knowledge? Now we don't take this knowledge, "perhaps, maybe." Just like in the sastra it is said: jalaja nava-laksani. There are nine-hundred-thousands forms of aquatic life. Nine hundred-thousands. In the Vedas, it is said. It doesn't say: one more or two less. Nine-hundred-thousand. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati krmayo rudra-sankhyakah. The living entities. So Veda, that is Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. So this is the process. Our Vedic civilization, all the great acaryas, teachers, they accept knowledge from the Vedas. Because we accept it, Veda is perfect. Sometimes they say that Vedas are also written by human beings. No. It is not written by human being. It is heard. Therefore it is called sruti. So tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. The knowledge, Vedic knowledge was first impregnated by the Supreme Lord in the heart of Brahma. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion --
Bombay, December 28, 1972
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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