"When To Reject Guru"

73/08/05 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.4-5



Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

arjuna uvaca
katham bhismam aham sankhye
dronam ca madhusudana
isubhih pratiyotsyami
pujarhav ari-sudana
[Bg. 2.4]

gurun ahatva hi mahanubhavan
sreyo bhoktum bhaiksyam apiha loke
hatvartha-kamams tu gurun ihaiva
bhunjiya bhogan rudhira-pradigdhan
[Bg. 2.5]

Translation: "Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu (Krsna), how can I counterattack with arrows in battle men like Bhisma and Drona, who are worthy of my worship? It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood."

Prabhupada: So the first problem was for Arjuna how to kill the kinsmen, family men. Now, when he was chastised by Krsna as a friend that "Why you are so weak? Don't be weak. This is sentiment. This kind of compassion is sentiment. Uttistha. You better get up and fight." If I do not want to do something, I can offer so many pleas. You see. So next he is presenting gurun: "All right, Krsna, you are talking about my kinsmen. I accept that it is my weakness. But how do You advise me to kill my guru? Dronacarya is my guru. And Bhismadeva is also my guru. So do you want me to kill my guru? Gurun hi hatva. And not only ordinary guru. This is not that they are ordinary men. Mahanubhavan. Bhisma is a great devotee, and similarly, Dronacarya also, a great personality. Mahanubhavan. So katham bhismam aham sankhye dronam ca madhusudana. "They are two great personalities. They are not only my gurus, but they are great personalities." And Krsna is addressed "Madhusudana." Madhusudana means... Madhu was Krsna's enemy, a demon. So He killed. So "You are Madhusudana, You are killer of Your enemies. Can You give me any evidence that You have killed Your guru? So why You are asking me?" This is the purport. Isubhih pratiyotsyami pujarhav ari-sudana. Again Ari-sudana. Ari means enemy. Madhusudana, particularly "the killer of the Madhu demon." And next is Arisudana. Ari means enemy. So Krsna has killed so many demons, ari, who came to fight with Him as enemy. Therefore His name is Arisudana.

So Krsna has got enemies also, what to speak of ourself. This material world is so made, that you must have some enemies. Matsarata. Matsarata means enviousness, jealousy. This material world is like that. So there are jealous enemies of God also. They are called demons. Ordinary jealousy or enemy, that is natural. But even to God. Just like yesterday night, evening, somebody came to see me. He was arguing that "Why Krsna should be accepted as God?" That was his argument. So Krsna has enemies. Therefore Krsna... Not only He, but everyone who is in the material world is enemy of Krsna. Everyone. Because they want to be competitor of Krsna. Krsna says that bhoktaram: "I am the supreme enjoyer." Sarva-loka-mahesvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the Supreme proprietor." And the Vedas also confirm, isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. "Everything is the property of the Supreme Lord." Sarvam khalv idam brahma. These are Vedic injunctions. Yato va imani bhutani jayante: "From whom everything has come." Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. These are Vedic versions. But still, we, because we are enemies, "No, why Krsna shall be the proprietor? I am the proprietor. Why Krsna shall be God only. I have got another God. Here is another God."

So Krsna has enemies. Arisudana. And He has to kill them. Krsna has got two businesses: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. Miscreants... They are miscreants. The demons who challenge Krsna, who want to compete with Krsna, who want to share with the property of Krsna, they are all enemies of Krsna, and they should be killed. So killing business is all right here for the enemies, not ordinarily. Then the next question is, "All right, enemies, you can kill, admitted But how you advise me to kill my gurus? Gurun ahatva. But if for Krsna's sake, if there is need, you have to kill your guru also. That is the philosophy. For Krsna's sake. If Krsna wants, then you cannot... If Krsna wants that you should kill your guru, then you have to do it. That is Krsna consciousness. Of course, Krsna will not ask you to kill guru, but... Because guru and Krsna are the same. Guru-krsna-krpaya. We get Krsna consciousness through the mercy of guru and Krsna. So real guru is never to be killed, but the so-called guru has to be killed. The so-called, pseudo guru, false guru, he should be killed. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. While Prahlada Maharaja... He was standing. Here is, Nrsimhadeva is killing his father. Father is guru. Sarva-devamayo guruh. Similarly, father is also guru, at least, official guru. Materially he is guru. So how Prahlada Maharaja allowed Nrsimhadeva to kill his guru? He's father. Everyone knows that Hiranyakasipu is father. Would you like to see that your father is being killed by some person and you'll stand? You will not protest? Is that your duty? No, that is not your duty. When your father is attacked, you must protest. At least, if you are unable, you must fight. You first of all lay down your life: "How is that, my father is being killed in my front?" That is our duty. But Prahlada Maharaja did not protest. He could have requested -- he is devotee -- "My dear sir, Prabhu, my Lord, You can excuse my father." He didn't. But he knew that "My father is not being killed. It is the body of the father." Later on he begged for his father in a different way. First of all, when Nrsimhadeva was angry, He was killing the body, he knew that "The body is not my father. The soul is my father. So let the Lord satisfy Himself by killing the body of my father; then I shall save him."

So Prahlada Maharaja... Nrsimhadeva offered Prahlada Maharaja, "Now you can take any kind of benediction you like." So Prahlada Maharaja replied, "My Lord, we are materialists. I am born of a father absolutely materialist. So I am also, because I am born of a materialist father, I am also materialist. And You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, You are offering to give me some benediction. I can take any kind of benediction from You. I know that. But what is the use of it? Why shall I ask You for any benediction? I have seen my father. Materially, he was so powerful that even the demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuna, they were threatened by his red eyes. And he gained over, control over the universe. He was so powerful. And riches, wealth, power, reputation, everything complete, but You have finished it in one second. So why You are offering me such benediction? What shall I do with them? If I take that benediction from You and I become puffed up and do everything wrong against You, then You can finish it within a second. So kindly do not offer me such benediction, such material opulence. Better give me benediction to be engaged in the service of Your servant. I want this benediction. Let me be benedicted by You that I may be engaged in the service of Your servant, not directly Your servant."

Then, after many prayers, after pacifying the Lord... He was very angry. Then when He was little pacified, he asked, "My dear Lord, I can ask You one, another benediction. that my father was very, very staunch enemy of You. That was the cause of his death. Now I ask You kindly excuse him and give him liberation." This is Vaisnava son. He did not ask anything for himself. And although he knew that his father was the greatest enemy, still, he is asking his benediction, "This poor fellow may be liberated." So Lord Nrsimhadeva guaranteed, said, "My dear Prahlada, not only your father, but your father's father, his father, up to fourteen generations, all are liberated. Because you are born in this family." So anyone who has become a Vaisnava, a devotee of the Lord, he is giving the greatest service to the family. Because in relationship with him, his father, mother, anyone, they will be liberated. Just like we have got experience, if a person dies in the fight immaturely, his family is taken care of by the government. Similarly, to become a devotee is the greatest qualification. He has got everything. Yatra yogesvaro harih yatra dhanur-dharah parthah. When there is Krsna and when there is devotee, all victory, all glories are there. That is guaranteed.

So gurun ahatva. A devotee of Krsna, if need be, if he's unqualified guru... Unqualified guru means who does not know how to guide the disciple. Guru's duty is to guide. So such kind of guru can be at least rejected. That is Jiva Gosvami's... Karya-karyam ajanatah. A guru who does not know what to do and what not to do, but by mistake, by mistakenly I have accepted somebody as guru, he can be rejected. By rejecting him, you can accept an actual bona fide guru. So guru is not killed, but he can be rejected. That is the injunction of the sastra. So Bhismadeva or Dronacarya, certainly they were gurus, but Krsna indirectly giving indication to Arjuna, that "Although they are in the position of guru, you can reject them." Karya-karyam ajanatah. "They do not know factually." This Bhismadeva, he materially considered his position. He knew everything from the beginning, that the Pandavas, they were parentless, fatherless children, and he raised them from the very beginning. Not only that, he was so much affectionate to the Pandavas that he was thinking, when they were sent to forest, banished, at that time Bhismadeva was crying, that "These five boys, they are so pure, so honest, and not only pure and honest, so powerful warriors, Arjuna and Bhima. And this Draupadi is practically directly the goddess of fortune. And they have got their friend, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna. And they are suffering?" He cried. He was such affectionate. Therefore Arjuna is considering, "How can I kill Bhisma?" But duty is so strong. Krsna is advising, "Yes, he must be killed because he has gone to the other side. He has forgotten his duty. He should have joined you. Therefore he is no more in the position of guru. You must kill him. He has wrongly joined the other party. Therefore there is no harm, killing him. Similarly Dronacarya. Similarly Dronacarya. I know they are great personalities, they have got great affection. But only on material consideration they have gone there." What is that material consideration? Bhisma thought that "I am maintained by the money of Duryodhana. Duryodhana is maintaining me. Now he is in danger. If I go to the other side, then I should be ungrateful. He has maintained me so long. And if I, in the time of danger, when there is fighting, if I go to the other side, that will be..." He thought like this. He did not think that "Duryodhana may be maintaining, but he has usurped the property of the Pandavas." But it is his greatness. He knew that Arjuna will never be killed because Krsna is there. "So from material point of view, I must be grateful to Duryodhana." The same position was for Dronacarya. They were maintained.

Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that visayira anna khaile malina haya mana. Such great personalities became darkened because they took money from them, anna. If I am provided by somebody who is too much materialist, then that will affect me. I will become also materialist. I will also become materialist. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu has warned that "Those who are visayi, those who are not devotees, do not accept anything from them because it will make your mind unclean." So therefore a brahmana and a Vaisnava, they do not accept directly money. They accept bhiksa. Bhiksa. Just like here it is said bhaiksyam. Sreyo bhoktum bhaiksyam apiha loke. When you ask somebody... Still, bhiksa is also sometimes prohibited from a person who is too much materialist. But bhiksa is allowed for sannyasis, for brahmana. So therefore Arjuna is speaking that "Instead of killing such great gurus who are so great personalities, mahanubhavan..." So bhaiksyam. For a ksatriya... A brahmana, a sannyasi can beg, can beg alms, but not a ksatriya, not a vaisya. That is not allowed. So he was a ksatriya, Arjuna. So he says, "Better I shall take the profession of a brahmana and beg from door to door instead of enjoy the kingdom by killing my guru." That was his proposal. So on the whole, Arjuna is illusioned -- illusioned in the sense that he is forgetting his duty. He is a ksatriya, his duty is to fight; never mind the opposite party, even he is son, a ksatriya will not hesitate to kill his son even if he is inimical. Similarly, the son, if the father is inimical, he would not hesitate to kill his father. This is the stringent duty of the ksatriyas, no consideration. A ksatriya cannot consider like that. Therefore Krsna said, klaibyam: "You don't be coward. Why you are becoming coward?" These topics are going on. Later on, Krsna will give him real spiritual instruction. This is... Ordinary talks are going on between the friend and the friend.

That's all right. Thank you. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.4-5 -- London, August 5, 1973