"Service To Man--Service To God"

April 24, 1977


Mr. Dwivedi: So I asked, "Vivekananda has said that 'Service of God... Service of humanity is service of God.' Do you think it is correct or it is incorrect?" He said, "This is correct." Then I said, "We are running educational institution. Whatever good or bad, leave that aside. But in our own little small way we are rendering little service to humanity. And..."

Prabhupada: But I may interfere. The... In the Bhagavad-gita is there such statement, that "Service to humanity is service to God"? Is there any statement?

Mr. Dwivedi: Daridranam bhara kaunteya... (?) I think there is somewhere...

Prabhupada: There is no.

Mr. Dwivedi: But this particular I remember, daridranam bhara kaunteya...

Prabhupada: This is... This is wrong theory. Don't maintain this. This is a very wrong theory. Just like "Service to the leaves is service to the root." Is it not wrong? What do you think? Like a tree, so where the service should be given, to the root or to the leaf?

Mr. Dwivedi: The root.

Prabhupada: Then why do you say like that? And Krsna says openly, mam ekam saranam vraja. He doesn't even recommend to worship demigods. Kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah yajanty anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. So these are imagination, concoction. They are not authorized. Vivekananda advocated daridra-narayana-seva hundred years ago. So India is full of daridras. What Mothilal can do? What Vivekananda can do? This is all simply concoction. You cannot do anything.

prakrteh kriyamanani

gunaih karmani sarvasah

ahankara-vimudhatma

kartaham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]

The nature's law will go on. You cannot make a poor man a rich man, unhappy man an happy man. That is not possible. Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. Can you make a hog eat halava instead of stool? Can you make? By nature's way it is going on. Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. These are foolish person who concoct ideas. It is not possible. If you can do anything to the human society, induce him to become a Krsna devotee.

ya idam paramam guhyam

mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati

[Bg 18.68]

na ca tasman manusyesu

kascin me priya-krttamah

[Bg. 18.69]

Krsna says. So Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam... [Bg. 18.66]. Teach people that "You take it." That is real benefit. Otherwise you cannot do anything. What you can do?

Indian man: The persons are the root.

Prabhupada: Yes! Root should be given water.

Tamala Krsna: He says, "Persons are the root."

Karttikeya: Person is the root.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Tamala Krsna: He says, "Persons are the root."

Prabhupada: No, Krsna is the root.

Karttikeya: Krsna is the root.

Prabhupada: Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. This is the Vedanta. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2], Krsna says. So devanam, Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara, He is the origin of Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. The root is Krsna. Karanam... Sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1].

isvarah paramah krsnah

sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah

anadir adir govindah

sarva-karana-karanam

[Bs. 5.1]

Root is Krsna.

Indian man: Origin.

Prabhupada: Origin, yes. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mat... [Bg. 10.8]. That is the difficulty. You do not read Bhagavad-gita. You quote Vivekananda. You quote another, another. But Krsna is God. That is the cause of misfortune of India. You don't accept Krsna as the authority. Everyone accepts, all the great sages formerly, Asita, Devala, Vyasa. Svayam caiva bravisi me. And at the present era, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Nimbarka, Caitanya -- all accept, krsnas tu bhagavan [SB 1.3.28]. You don't follow the acaryas, the authorities, Krsna. You bring something.

Karttikeya: Concoction.

Prabhupada: That is the misfortune. They have left the authority, real authority. They have accepted some foolish man as authority. And that is the misfortune. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is, the supreme authority. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Why don't you take this? Distortion of our sastra, distortion of authority, and bringing something foolish, and you are following. Not... You cannot follow. That is not possible. It is not possible. But you are making some authorities. You trying to follow. Even if you follow... That, the same example, just like Vivekananda was advocating daridra-narayana. First of all this is a concocted word. How Narayana can be daridra? People have accepted. Narayana is daridra?

Mr. Dwivedi: No.

Prabhupada: Then how he manufactured this nonsense word? It is insulting. If I say, "Foolish Jetthi, President, rascal," so is it not insult? Similarly, if you say, daridra-narayana, it is insult to Narayana. But people are accepting daridra-narayana. Just see how they are misled.

Indian man: They have not even proper knowledge, sir.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man: They have not even proper knowledge.

Prabhupada: No knowledge. All rascals.

Karttikeya: Not even proper. No knowledge.

Prabhupada: :That is he difficulty. Rascals have become leaders.

Karttikeya: And we follow them.

Indian man: And we have to, actually. It is...

Karttikeya: Not we have to. Here is a leader. Why don't you follow him?

Indian man: But when we get the... Fortunately then we can do so.

Karttikeya: No, fortune is given.

Indian man: Yes.

Karttikeya: He has been doing it for so long.

Indian man: Yes, yes.

Prabhupada: That is the misfortune of human society. The other thing...

Mr. Dwivedi: This also happens by good luck. As Ramayana says, vina hari-krpa na mile sat-sanga. (Hindi)

Karttikeya: No, that's not... You should not worry about a poor people then. You should worry about Krsna only. You should serve Him. You should become His devotee.

Prabhupada: There are... Poor people, so far concerned, that... Are we not taking care of the poor people? That is automatically taken. Who is poor? A man who is poor in knowledge, he is poor.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, correct. Yes.

Prabhupada: Otherwise nobody's poor.

Tamala Krsna: Americans are very rich from...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: ...material point of view.

Prabhupada: Poor means poor in knowledge. Otherwise even a small ants, it is not poor. It is eating. You are not giving food. In this room you'll find some hole. Hundreds and thousands of ants will come out. Are you giving him food? And you go to the jungle. Thousands of elephants are there. Are you giving them food? Why you are concerned about the poor? Who is poor? Poor means who has no knowledge. He is rascal. He is poor. Poor means poor in knowledge. Otherwise nobody is poor. Everyone is getting his food according to his karma. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. These are wrong theories. Wrong means because they are rascals, they are putting something rascal, idea. Mudhah nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam, avyayam. Nityo nityanam ceta... This is Vedic version. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). (Hindi) We want to stop all this nonsense. That is our mission. Our Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is that "You become guru," as I was telling, "and teach, deliver persons where you are." If you say, "How can I become guru?" there is no difficulty. Simply repeat the words of Bhagavad-gita. That's all. You become guru. So our mission is to create real guru, not these jugglers. And real guru is he who speaks on behalf of Krsna. And that is wan... It is very simple. Do you accept or not? Boliye.

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) (laughter)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...manufacturing word, narayana daridra. Laksmi-pati is daridra. Kitna gadha. (Hindi) ...without checking. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) We want to reestablish this. This is our mission. Everything is there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upade... "You simply make your life successful by understanding Bhagavad-gita and preach this. You become guru." So where is the difficulty? Why don't you do that? Boliye. (Hindi) You quoted from Vivekananda, not from the Bhagavad-gita.

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

yat karosi yad asnasi

yaj juhosi dadasi yat

yat tapasyasi kaunteya

tat kurusva mad-arpanam

[Bg. 9.27]

Prabhupada: This should be the... Take... Take Bhagavad-gita as the authority. Everything will be all right. (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) ...founder. The first day I couldn't understand then... (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Everyone is isvara. (Hindi)

Karttikeya: He is jagad-guru.

Prabhupada: He is... Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1], anadir adir... Anadi. (Hindi) You have got so exalted knowledge in India. You have kept it packed. And you are going to beg from others? Take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gita and assimilate it, make your life successful, and distribute it throughout the whole world. That I want. (Hindi) Knowledge, real knowledge, is in India. (Hindi) Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said,

bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara

janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara

[Cc. Adi 9.41]

Indians, they are fortunate. They have got their birth in Bharatavarsa. The knowledge is here. So assimilate this knowledge. Make your life successful and distribute it to persons outside India. That is paropakara. That is real paropakara. That is real seva. But seva, no. It is daya. The seva cannot be used. Seva means offered to the superior. And to the inferior, if you want to do something, that is daya. There are words. Seva is only capable to accept, Krsna. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah [Brs. 1.2.234]. These are... (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Seva-bhagavan accept, can accept.

ekale isvara krsna ara saba bhrtya

yare yaiche nacaya se taiche kare nrtya

[Cc. Adi 5.142]

So master can accept service. So whenever there is devotional service, it is called bhagavata-seva. And jivera daya. (Hindi) If you have got something, then you can be merciful to others. If you have no knowledge, what you can do? The basic principle... (Hindi) In India, Bharatavarsa, exalted knowledge, and if it is presented properly, people will accept. They are accepting now, one man's effort. If many men are prepared to do this service, the whole world will be followers of Bhagavad-gita. (Hindi) [break] ... come to give here India's knowledge. In big meeting I told him that "I have not come here to beg. I have come here to give." Everyone goes from... Even the Prime Minister goes-beg. All beggars. And it is known as "beggars' nation." But you can be the giver nation. You have got so much potency. But we are not training people in that way. They are learning dog dancing. That's all. If we simply understand this one word, beginning of the Bhagavad-gita... There are so many students of Bhagavad-gita, but nobody understands Bhagavad-gita. The beginning is,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe

kaumaram yauvanam jara

tatha dehantara-praptir

dhiras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]

Is not there in the beginning?

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: So if there is dehantara-prapti, then where is your so-called nationalism, socialism? They do not understand. Suppose if you are Indian today and dehantara-prapti, you become something else, then where is your nationalism? Boliye. For twenty years or, say, fifty years nationalism... When you become young man, thirty-forty years, then you begin. Suppose you live for hundred years. So fifty years' nationalism. Then if by chance you become a dog? (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) ...vasudeva-kutumbakam...

Prabhupada: Vasudeva-kutumbakam all right because Krsna says,

sarva-yonisu kaunteya

murtayah sambhavanti yah

tasam brahma mahad-yonir

aham bija-pradah pita

[Bg. 14.4]

If you understand Krsna, then kutumbakam. If you don't understand your father, where is kutumbaka? (Hindi) Kitna (Hindi) ...foolish idea. You do not recognize the father, and crying for brother. If you understand Krsna, then vasudeva-kutumbakam. If you do not understand, it is foolishness. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. If you can understand your position as part and parcel of Krsna, Param Brahma... Krsna... Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. Everything in the Bhagavad-gita... If you understand that "I am part and parcel of Param Brahma. Aham brahmasmi. I am also Brahman," that is brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20]. Prasannatma na socati..., samah sarvesu bhutesu. Then you can claim this vasudeva... If you do not understand Krsna, it is all nonsense, simply slogan. Where is kutumbaka? Then where is nationalism? I have gone to preach in the foreign countries -- really on kutumbakam, not that "I am Indian. He is American. He is Englishman." Then there is no question of kutumbakam. And people are fighting on this plane. This vasudeva-kutumbakam... Then why you asked the Englishmen to go away, quit India? What do you say?

Mr. Dwivedi: Narrow nationalism.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Narrow nationalism.

Prabhupada: If you... If you think kutumbakam. Suppose some kutumba has come to your house. You ask him, "Go out"? This is our system. Grhe satrum api praptam. This is Indian culture. When you receive somebody at your home, even if he's your enemy-grhe satrum api praptam -- you should treat with him in such a way that he'll forget that he's your enemy. Visvastam akutobhayam. That was India's culture. Bhima went to Jarasandha to fight. Whole day it was fight. It was ksatriya's fight. Unless one is dead, the fight will continue. So Bhima and Jarasandha were equally powerful, so no decision. But still, he was guest at Jarasandha's house. At night they were eating together, talking together. This is India's culture. They forgot. Arjuna went to see in the battlefield to Duryodhana. And Duryodhana immediately said, "Come here, my brother. You have come. What do you want? How can I help you? You want your kingdom without fight? I can give you." He said, "No, no, that is not my business." This is ksatriya. He... He thought that "He has come to beg." "No, no, that already... That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is ksatriya. But when he's at my place, I offer, "All right, if you want without fight, you can take." This is... They... This is India's culture. Ei sab mahabharata hai, "History of Greater India." (Hindi) Apkara Gandhiji (Hindi) fiction hai.

Mr. Dwivedi: Gandhi thought that the Mahabharata is within.

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: "The Ramayana is within." That's what he says.

Prabhupada: And therefore... Therefore...

Mr. Dwivedi: He said, "Rama, nobody accepts..."

Prabhupada: ...Krsna... Krsna gave him within -- bullet. Yes. "Your nonviolence is within. You take it within. Take this bullet." Such wrong theory. These are wrong theories. "You want to establish nonviolence, and the violence is within. Take it." So don't theorize. Yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah, na siddhim sa avapnoti [Bg. 16.23]. This is Gita's word. If you do not follow the sastra -- you manufacture ideas -- you'll never get success, na siddhim sa avapnoti na sukham, no happiness, and what to speak of param gatim? (Hindi) Tasmat sastra-vidhanoktam karyakarya... What is that verse? Real guidance, sastra, and Krsna is speaking. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is very easy. But we have given up all these things. (Hindi) So you have to give up this. Otherwise there is no hope. [break] And to become Krsna conscious, it is not at all difficult. Very simple thing. Otherwise how they have become? Ten years before, they did not know who is Krsna. So how they have become Krsna conscious? And our position is that even a person like Gandhi, he could not become Krsna conscious in hundred years. Because the wrong way. And they have become within ten years fully Krsna conscious. Now ask him that "Go back to your Christian." Will they go? They have been kidnapped. They have been forced. In so many ways they have been harassed. No. In America it was going on. Their fathers... From parents' side they have been kidnapped, detoured by force that "You eat it, the mamsa. You eat." What is that girl who was kidnapped and she came to temple and married?

Tamala Krsna: That girl in Los Angeles?

Prabhupada: No, in New York.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, Murti-vandya. Murti-vandya.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Now, how they have become Krsna conscious? And our men? They are dragged, somebody, to this conscious, that conscious, that conscious. Take this steady instruction of Bhagavad-gita. Try to implement. Everyone will be happy, everyone, undoubtedly. Take this seriously. It is not that, because we are pushing Krsna ... We are not pushing something new, manufactured. It is already there. It is already there. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is Krsna consciousness. So what do you think? Is it possible to push Krsna consciousness on this line, strictly on Bhagavad-gita? What do you think? It is not difficult, but we have made it difficult. Recently I had been to Vinoba Bhave's asrama. And there is no Krsna, and he is writing Bhagavad-gita pravacana or something like that. Even in Gandhi's asrama, Wardha(?), the Gandhi's lantern is being worshiped. And where is Krsna? So the Bhagavad-gita's instruction is mam ekam saranam vraja, and they are worshiping Gandhi's lantern. You had been with me?

Tamala Krsna: No, but I've seen it.

Prabhupada: You know, that so...

Tamala Krsna: Neither many people come there.

Karttikeya: Sevagram.

Prabhupada: Nobody.

Tamala Krsna: Krsna temples are still full.

Prabhupada: And it is very nice place. How it could be developed as a Krsna conscious center... But they have given up this idea. From externally... Now Vinoba Bhave is preaching Bhagavad-gita pravacana how many years?

Mr. Dwivedi: Nearly forty-fifty years.

Prabhupada: Fifty years. So what he has done? And within ten years what I have done?

Mr. Dwivedi: He has also put Gita with politics.

Prabhupada: Can I not say like that?

Mr. Dwivedi: You are... What you preach is unadulterated Gita. He mixes it with politics.

Prabhupada: That is my point.

Mr. Dwivedi: You put one principle,

man-mana bhava mad-bhakto

mad-yaji mam namaskuru

mam evaisyasi kaunteya...

[Bg. 18.65]

Prabhupada: So what is beneficial, to preach Bhagavad-gita as it is or adulterate it? Which is good? That is my point. Why should you talk of Bhagavad-gita, adulterate? What is the benefit? And Krsna says, nastah. (aside:) Bring Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says, sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah parantapa. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo... [Bg. 4.2]. You know that. Find out.

Tamala Krsna: Fourth Chapter.

Prabhupada: How to understand Bhagavad-gita? By the parampara. Sa kaleneha yogo nastah parantapa. (Hindi) The parampara-sutra says that... (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: Third Chapter...

Tamala Krsna: Fourth Chapter.

evam parampara-praptam

imam rajarsayo viduh

sa kaleneha mahata

yogo nastah parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]

Prabhupada: (Hindi) So what you will gain from nasta, bhrasta? (Hindi) We shall give pure. Then you see how your country becomes happy. That is real daya. (Hindi) Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. (Hindi)

bhaktim udasya te vibhoh klisyanti

hi kevala-bodha-labdhaye

tesam klesala eva avasisyate

nanyat yatha sthulam tusavaghattainam

Bhagavad-gita is for bhakti. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam hy etad uttamam: [Bg. 4.3] "I am speaking to you..." When Krsna spoke to Arjuna Bhagavad-gita to understand, he was not a vedanti. He was not even a brahmana. He was not a sannyasi. So why he was selected? Bhakto 'si. Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. Without becoming krsna-bhakta, what one will understand Bhagavad-gita? A politician cannot understand. His motive is different. He cannot understand. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji... Bhakta... How to become bhakta? Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. Krsna says, "By bhakti one can understand." He never said, "By jnana, karma, yoga..." No. Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gata... [Bg. 6.47]. Eh? What is that? Antar-atmana, sraddhavan bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo... So if you want to organize on that line, then it will be successful. Otherwise it is waste of time. That is real cooperation, that we must accept Bhagavad-gita as it is and preach as it is. Then people will be happy. Otherwise waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8].

vasudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogah prayojitah

janayaty asu vairagyam

jnanam ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]

Now, that is wanted. (Hindi) Those who lead the seva-sanga, they must learn how to do benefit to the people. They must practically assimilate, apply in their practical life, and teach others. Then it will be successful. There is no doubt. And the proof is here. In our foreign countries, they are foreigners. They are practicing different religious systems. Now, why they are taking to Krsna con...? Millions of copies, Bhagavad-gita As It Is, we are selling. Krsna book, how many?

Tamala Krsna: Now about three and a half million copies, thirty-five lakhs copies.

Prabhupada: In Christmas festival they are performing Christmas festival and purchasing our book, Krsna book. Now they have accepted this Hare Krsna movement is three thousand years old or some thousands of...

Karttikeya: Five thousand.

Prabhupada: No, thousands of years.

Karttikeya: No, thousands of years.

Prabhupada: So do something -- the people will be benefited, actual. And the whole instruction is there. Then it will be success. Otherwise... Moghasa mogha-karmano mogha-jnana vicetasah [Bg. 9.12]. Find out this verse. Moghasah. (Hindi)

Tamala Krsna: Moghasa jnanam.

Prabhupada: Hm. (Hindi)

Tamala Krsna:

moghasa mogha-karmano

mogha-jnana vicetasah

raksasim asurim caiva

prakrtim mohinim sritah

[Bg. 9.12]

Prabhupada: That's all. Raksasa. (Hindi) Learn the art, how to kill Krsna and read Bhagavad-gita. (Hindi) Moghasah, finished. (Hindi) Mogha-karmanah. (Hindi) Mogha-jnanah. Vicetasah. Why? Raksasa. (Hindi) Whether you are prepared to cooperate with me on this line? Are you ready?

Mr. Dwivedi: We also believe in unadulterated Gita, (laughs) unadulterated Gita.

Prabhupada: This is the line of action. (Hindi) Mam evaisyasi asamsayah [Bg. 18.65]. Asamsaya. (Hindi) Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6].

mam upetya punar janma

duhkhalayam asasvatam

napnuvanti mahatmanah

samsiddhim paramam gatah

[Bg. 8.15]

This is samsiddhi. If you want so -- that is another thing -- that, your samsiddhi, then you have to accept Bhagavad-gita as it is. Samyak siddhi, sampurna siddhi, samyak, samsiddhi. Find out this verse.

mam upetya punar janma

duhkhalayam asasvatam

napnuvanti mahatmanah

samsiddhim paramam gatah

[Bg. 8.15]

(Hindi) So we have to give up this showbottle, that "I am a scholar of Bhagavad-gita. I am so..."

Tamala Krsna:

mam upetya punar janma

duhkhalayam asasvatam

napnuvanti mahatmanah

samsiddhim paramam gatah

[Bg. 8.15]

Prabhupada: (Hindi) This is the definition of mahatma, not that I create mahatma. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah, bhajanty ananya-manasah [Bg. 9.13]. (Hindi) This is mahatma.

bahunam janmanam ante

jnanavan mam prapadyate

vasudevah sarvam iti

sa mahatma sudurlabhah

[Bg. 7.19]

That is mahatma. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. The Mahatma Gandhi... (Hindi) Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. (Hindi) If you read Bhagavad-gita, you must read properly, act properly. Then you'll get the benefit. If you manufacture your ideas-useless waste of time. (Hindi) Whether they'll tolerate? Boliye.

Mr. Dwivedi: Hm?

Prabhupada: Whether they'll be able to digest?

Tamala Krsna: Bitter. Bitter medicine.

Prabhupada: Bitter pill.

Mr. Dwivedi: I think there is greater room for digestion of unadulterated Gita than for adulterated.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Mr. Dwivedi: And automatically, I do not know why, but I think they will believe it.

Prabhupada: No, they will not take it.

Mr. Dwivedi: They are... Already they are in a mood of...

Prabhupada: No, that...

Mr. Dwivedi: ...without much effort on anybody's part. I do not know why, whether it...

Prabhupada: No, that is everywhere. That is everywhere. Everywhere every Indian is Krsna conscious. By force we are making them otherwise. That is going on.

Mr. Dwivedi: So whatever... Atomic forces or whatever forces of saints like you, but they take it... There will be that air, that something is automatically coming up.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) If you agree to cooperate with me, you'll see immediately. Because I want to deliver the real thing, therefore in my feeble health I am prepared to go. If one man can understand, that I want to see. I am traveling all over the world to see that at least one man may understand. They have spoiled the whole situation by misinterpreting, by malinterpreting, and by bringing some rascal and pose as leader. The whole world is spoiled. If you want to preach some rascal philosophy, you do. Why you take Bhagavad-gita? That is cheating.

Mr. Dwivedi: If we can preach something genuine... This life is so small. What...? Why...? Why should we be after something which is adulterated? Why not preach genuine, if at all we preach?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Dwivedi: And for what purpose? Life itself is too short. For what purpose?

Prabhupada: (Hindi) "I preach something nonsense, and I take Bhagavad-gita." Why? Why you take Bhagavad-gita? You... There are so many rascal philosophers. You also preach your own philosophy. Why do you take Bhagavad-gita? And where is nonviolence in Bhagavad-gita?

Indian man: This, I think, they will be very active to know, I think.

Prabhupada: Yes. Where is nonviolence in Bhagavad-gita, in politics?

Karttikeya: Nowhere.

Prabhupada: No. Even that incidence I told you, the, Duryodhana said, "You have come to, for kingdom? Yes, you can take." So he said, "No, no, no. That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is ksatriya. "Oh, Duryodhana, you are so gentleman. Let us settle up. No, no, no." "No! That will be settled in the battlefield." This is Bhagavad-gita. (Hindi) "No, we have come to the battlefield. We must decide by fighting." This is ksatriya. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. Yuddhe capy apalayanam. (Hindi) This is teaching of Bhagavad-gita. Yuddhe capy apalayanam. Then where this is nonviolence come in the Bhagavad-gita? Apalayanam. (Hindi) "Come on. Fight. You have no weapon? Take from me." This is ksatriya. What is the definition?

Tamala Krsna: Ksatriya?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna:

sauryam tejo dhrtir daksyam

yuddhe capy apalayanam

danam isvara-bhavas ca

ksatram karma svabhava-jam

[Bg. 18.43]

Prabhupada: Hm? Sauryam...?

Tamala Krsna: "Sauryam-heroism; tejah-power; dhrtih-determination; daksyam-resourcefulness; yuddhe capy apalayanam -- that he does not flee in the battlefield; danam-generosity; isvara-leadership." Those are the qualities.

Mr. Dwivedi: Somewhere Mahabharata or somewhere, Arjuna said, pratyaiva na denam napy apalayanam(?).

Prabhupada: (aside:) Get light on that. (Hindi) There was how many applications for five hundred posts?

Karttikeya: These fifty application... Fifty posts and five thousand applications, twenty-five thousand applications.

Prabhupada: No, no. There were some thousands applications. In education. (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Then sudra-karma. Paricaryatmakam karma sudra-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. (Hindi) So strictly if you follow Bhagavad-gita as it is, oh, then there will be heaven, everything. (Hindi) Kitna time waste... (Hindi) Jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42]. (Hindi) ...simple life... (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) This I've seen that in our day it has been found first-class antiseptic. (Hindi) Particularly when we have got typhus and that sort of sicknesses in the home, it is the ground gobar that the house is cleaned and...

Prabhupada: (Hindi) This is very dangerous civilization. If you want to save them from this dangerous civilization, you must push on Krsna consciousness. Otherwise there is no other way. (Hindi) Dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dhira. (Hindi) Yato mata tato patha. (Hindi) Secular state. (Hindi) [break] (Hindi) Prayascitta-vimarsanam. (Hindi) Do you think they'll do?

Mr. Dwivedi: No, I don't.

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) But

kecit kevalaya bhaktya

vasudeva-parayanah

agham dhunvanti karstnyena

niharam iva bhaskarah

[SB 6.1.15]

Niharam iva bhaskarah. Nihara... (Hindi) (Hindi conversation continues for some time) That is this Krsna consciousness.

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena

bhakti-yogena sevate

sa gunan samatityaitan

brahma-bhuyaya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]

brahma-bhutah prasannatma

na socati na kanksati

samah sarvesu bhutesu

mad-bhaktim labhate param

[Bg. 18.54]

Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi... [Bg. 18.55], tato mam tattvato jnatva visate tad-anantaram. (Hindi) So if you want, you can come also.

Karttikeya: No, I'll talk to Tamala Krsna. When are you going?

Tamala Krsna: Well, we're going to go tomorrow to book the tickets. We'll be going...

Karttikeya: After 6th.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, on the... We'll be leaving on the 6th.

Prabhupada: Wait next day.

Tamala Krsna: No, well, we want to leave, I guess...

Prabhupada: Ah, Friday.

Tamala Krsna: Friday.

Karttikeya: You can take my ticket.

Tamala Krsna: We should get a ticket for you? Okay. Fine.

Karttikeya: It's a good opportunity for me to cure also.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah?

Karttikeya: We are going to this Ananda(?) near Ahmedabad for five days near Srila Prabhupada. That was a very good reception there. So we can have the same type of... And we can see also with that, they have a good land and everything.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Nature hai; you cannot change it. (Hindi) Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani [Bg. 3.27]. You cannot stop it. Yam yam vapi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. (Hindi)

urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha

madhye tisthanti rajasah

jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha

adho gacchanti tamasah

[Bg. 14.18]

(Hindi) You cannot check the activities of material nature. That is not possible. (Hindi) They do not know what the, how nature's law is working. And we are completely under the nature's law.

daivi hy esa gunamayi

mama maya duratyaya

mam eva ye prapadyante

mayam etam taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]

(Hindi) We have got Hindi also. (Hindi) You are all young men. Do you think what I am speaking is right or wrong?

Mr. Dwivedi: Right.

Indian man (2): Right.

Prabhupada: Right? Thank you.

Mr. Dwivedi: When you told him yesterday, so he was interested to come today.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Mr. Dwivedi: In Gita he was interested.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Indian man (2): In Gita I am...

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Sva-vid-varaha-ustra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation continues for some time) Brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: But now everybody has become a sudra.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) (more Hindi conversation) So give him photograph, my photograph. Bring some photograph.

Mr. Dwivedi: All right. (Hindi) There are tentative date... (Hindi) So that can be fixed, that Your Holiness will be reaching there about the 6th.

Prabhupada: Yes. That letter...

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) In that letter, whatever changes you want to make, make changes. Kindly put the date 6th, that His Grace should be reaching Gwalior on the 6th.

Prabhupada: Do... Otherwise call him.

Mr. Dwivedi: Or Pauri otherwise, Pauri on the 7th.

Prabhupada: Call him.

Mr. Dwivedi: Pauri on the 7th, morning.

Prabhupada: That's all right. (Hindi) So that letter...

Tamala Krsna: Is it required to give letter like that, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: I mean...

Prabhupada: And...

Tamala Krsna: That letter is... It's required to give him a letter like that?

Prabhupada: If he wants, give him a tentative date.

Mr. Dwivedi: You kindly give me one or two photographs.

Tamala Krsna: I don't have any photographs like that.

Mr. Dwivedi: You don't have.

Tamala Krsna: But you can get them. I can tell you the person to see who may have them, Amogha-lila. I can give you his name.

Prabhupada: So ask him, Amogha-lila. Why he shall go?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I... We have no photos.

Prabhupada: No, no, you have no; Amogha-lila has got.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: So bring some. Give him.

Mr. Dwivedi: And then you arrange for that date, that His Grace will be reaching Pauri on the 7th.

Prabhupada: Tentative date.

Tamala Krsna: So when do you want the letter? Immediately? You want the letter immediately?

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes. Yes, you see, because I am leaving tomorrow. Before I go, I meet some press people. I will show them this letter. I say...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...on that basis, they'll begin to spread that news.

Prabhupada: (chants japa) If actually government follows Bhagavad-gita, then they should stop this cow slaughter immediately. Go-raksya. If you want to eat meat, there are so many other animals. But don't touch cow. What is this? Ten thousand cows are being killed every day. And you are preaching nonviolence. (chants japa)

Mr. Dwivedi: Then I may take that letter from Your Holi...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: No, you are welcome always.

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) ...you have got to do.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) (chants japa) Jaya. Pranair arthair dhiya vaca. Gopinatha?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupada. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay