satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantas ca
drdha-vratah
namasyantas ca mam bhaktya
tusyanti ca ramanti
ca
[Bg. 9.14]
Satatam kirtayanto mam. Those who are mahatmas...
Mahatma means great soul. Mahatma is not created. Mahatma means... That is
also explained in the Bhagavad-gita, who is mahatma. Krsna says, bahunam
janmanam ante: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births." Of course, at the present
moment they do not believe whether there is birth after birth. But it is not
the question of whether you believe or not believe. The truth is truth. So
there is birth after death. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. You do not
die after finishing this body. You accept another body. That you can
experience daily. In your childhood... You can remember that you had a body
just like this child. Now you are grown up. Where is that body? That body is
gone. Now you have got a new body. But you know that "I had a childhood body
like this. I was attending such and such meeting," but that body is now no
longer existing.
So this transmigration of the soul is very simple
subject. Any sensible man can understand. And in the Bhagavad-gita, in the
very beginning of the instruction, Krsna says,
dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam
jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg.
2.13]
Dhira, those who are sober, intelligent, they are not
bewildered when a living entity changes his body. So change of body is going
on in every moment, in every second, imperceptibly. Medical science also
accepts that in every second we are changing our blood corpuscles. That is a
fact. We are changing body every moment. And the final change is called death.
But actually, there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. You
accept another body. Therefore Krsna says, bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19],
"After many, many births," bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan, "when a man or a
living entity becomes actually wise and intelligent..." Not fools. Fools
cannot understand. One has to become very intelligent. Bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan. Jnanavan means very intelligent, wise man. Bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan mam prapadyate. Krsna says that "After many, many births of struggle,
or attempt for acquiring knowledge, when one comes to the summit point of
understanding, he understands that vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], the origin
of everything is Vasudeva, Krsna." Vasudeva. Origin of everything is
Krsna.
The Vedanta-sutra says, the first aphorism of
Vedanta-sutra, athato brahma jijnasa: "Now this human form of life is meant
for inquiring about Brahman." And the Veda says that aham brahmasmi: "I am
Brahman. I am not this body. I am spirit soul." And when one understands that
he is spirit soul, brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54], at once he becomes
joyful. That is the sign of brahma-jnana. Brahma-bhutah. These are the
versions of Bhagavad-gita. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. As soon as one realizes
that "I am Brahman. I have nothing to do with this material world," his all
anxieties immediately finished. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na
kanksati. In the Vedanta-sutra you'll also find, anandamayo 'bhyasat
(Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). The spirit soul or the Supreme Soul, both of them are
anandamaya. Ananda means blissful, by nature blissful. Always wants to enjoy.
That is the nature of spirit. But at the present moment, because we have
forgotten that I am..., we are spirit soul, part and parcel of the Supreme
Lord, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7], identifying ourself with something
else which is transitory, we are suffering. This is the cause. There are many
places. Bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syad isad api etasya viparyayo 'smrtih.
Viparyayo 'smrtih means converted thinking. I'm not this, any product of this
material world, but I am thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am
Englishman," "I am German," "I am Chinaman," "I am Russian," or "I am cats and
dogs." There are so many. These are all designations. These are all
designations. My real identity is aham brahmasmi: "I am Brahman. I am the part
and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. Qualitatively, I am one with God." Just
like a particle of gold is also gold. A small particle of the ocean is also
salty. The chemical composition of the small particle of ocean water is the
same as the big ocean. So qualitatively, I am one with God, or Krsna.
When we speak of Krsna, you'll please understand that I
am meaning God. Because Krsna means all-attractive. Without being
all-attractive, there cannot be God. God must be all-attractive, all-opulence,
all-powerful, all-wise, all-renounced, all-beautiful. These are the
qualifications of God. So bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. After cultivation
of knowledge, many, many births... Cultivation of knowledge is also not easy
for everyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of persons, human
beings, one may be interested to know 'What is the aim of life? Why I am
suffering?' " Everyone is suffering. That is the fact. In the material world
nobody can be happy. If one is thinking that he's happy materially, he's a
fool. Nobody can be happy. This is the place for distress. It is certified by
miseries, as well as it is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right, it is a
miserable place. I shall stay here. Never mind," but nature will not allow you
to stay even. One day it will come, immediately kick you out. You have seen
the great President of United States, Mr. Kennedy. He was supposed to be the
happiest man in the world, but within a second he was kicked out, immediately.
In our country Mahatma Gandhi was very popular leader, but in a second he was
removed from the field. So we do not know when we shall be removed immediately
by the freaks of nature. Therefore the intelligent man should try to know,
"What is my constitutional position? Why I want to stay, but some superpower
kicks me out of this stage?" Why? This is question. This is called
brahma-jijnasa. Athato brahma jijnasa. The Vedanta-sutra instructs that every
human being, not the animals but human being, you should not be bewildered.
You should question, "Why I am suffering threefold miseries? Why... I do not
want death. Why death overcomes me?"
Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. An intelligent man
should always keep before him four principles of material miseries: birth,
death, old age, and disease. These are instructions of the Bhagavad-gita. One
who is making progress in knowledge, he must keep before him these four
problems -- birth, death, old age, and disease. You may be very much proud of
your scientific advancement of knowledge, but here is the real science. If you
can overcome birth, death, old age and disease, then you can say your science
is triumphant.
The Bhagavata says, therefore, that,
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu
yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB
1.2.8]
Srama eva hi kevalam. After executing your proper
service or duties... Everyone is entrusted with some kind of duties. So if,
after properly executing your duties as Indian or as American or Englishman or
scientist or businessman or father or mother... So many duties we have got.
Dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah, notpadayed yadi ratim [SB
1.2.8]. After executing your duties, if you do not develop your anxiety to
inquire about Brahman... Athato brahma jijnasa. This is the beginning of
Vedanta-sutra. People are indulging in studying Vedanta, but Vedanta-sutra is
not a matter of speculation. It is to be studied from the authorities. Tad
vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So if, after executing your
duties very properly, if you do not develop your consciousness to know about
yourself or the Supreme Self, then whatever you have done, it is simply waste
of time. That's all. Srama eva hi kevalam. Simply laboring after nothing.
That's all. That means spoiling human life.
So this message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Hare Krsna
movement, is to warn you, "Don't spoil this opportunity of human form of life.
Don't spoil it." Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam ca samanyam etat pasubhih
naranam. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending, these things are common to
the animals and the human being. You eat; the animals eat. You sleep; the
animals sleep. You mate; the animals mate. You are also afraid of your enemy;
they are also afraid of their enemy. So by discovering very palatable dishes
to eat, or fashionable dresses for sex life, or atom bomb for defending...
Eating, sleeping, mating and defending, these four principles, if you advance
in these four principles only, that does not mean that you are better than
animals. You are as good as animals. [break] ...under the control of this
material nature. They are under the control of the spiritual nature.
Daivi-prakrtim asritah. And what is the symptom of such persons, that he is
under the control of spiritual nature? That is also explained in the
Bhagavad-gita:
mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim
asritah
bhajanty ananya-manaso...
[Bg. 9.13]
Bhajanti. This bhajan, that is the sign of mahatma. You
cannot create a mahatma by rubberstamp or by votes. Mahatma's symptom is that
he's fully surrendered unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead and always
engaged in glorifying His activities. His activities. Satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantas ca drdha-vratah [Bg. 9.14]. He's always very much careful about
executing devotional service. Namasyantas ca mam. He's always offering
obeisances. Tusyanti ca ramanti ca. In this way they enjoy, tusyanti, and
they're satisfied. These are the signs of mahatma.
So to become mahatma and liberated... There are so many
theories how to become liberated, how to become mahatma, how to become
religionist, how to become philosopher. There are many thoughts and theories,
but real success of life is to become a mahatma, broader, broad-minded.
Mahatma means broader-minded. They are not, I mean to say, short-minded, that
"I am this," "I am that" -- "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I
am Indian," "I am German," "I am Englishman" -- no. Mahatma is
sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. He is freed from all designation.
These are all our designations. When I think, "I am Englishman" or "I am
Indian," this is my designation. Because as soon as I change this body, I
accept another body. Then all my philanthropy as Englishman or Indian --
immediately finished. Just like President Kennedy's presidentship and
philanthropy all finished. Now we do not know where is Mr. Kennedy and what he
is doing. But he has got a body. That's a fact. That I have already explained.
But neither you know, neither he knows that "I was President," or "I was this
or that." Therefore this is called illusion, maya. So Bhaktivinoda Thakura
says, keno mayara bose, yaccho bhese: "My dear friends, my dear brothers, why
you are being washed away by the waves of this illusion? Don't be wasted.
Don't be washed away." Just like if you are thrown into the ocean you are
washed away by the waves, similarly, by the waves of this material nature,
prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27], we are being washed
away from one body to another, in this way. But actually we do not want this.
Actually every one of us, we want a permanent body, a permanent situation, a
permanent life, a blissful life, a life of knowledge. That is our hankering.
But we do not know, do not know because we do not care to know. Otherwise
everything is explained. You haven't got to study many books. You just simply
study Bhagavad-gita As It Is. We have therefore published this Bhagavad-gita
As It Is without any nonsensical interpretation. "As It Is." Then you'll get
all the knowledge and you'll know what you are meant for. So this movement is
just to revive your consciousness, original consciousness. Original
consciousness is Krsna consciousness. And all other consciousness which you
have now acquired, these are superficial, temporary. "I am Indian," "I am
Englishman," "I am this," "I am that" -- these are all superficial
consciousness. Real consciousness is aham brahmasmi.
So Lord Caitanya, who started this movement five
hundred years ago in Bengal, India, He immediately informs you that jivera
svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], that our real identity,
real constitutional position, is that we are part and parcel of Krsna, or God.
Therefore you can understand what is your duty. Just like this hand is part
and parcel of your body. Now, what is the duty of this hand? To serve the
body, that's all. The hand cannot enjoy independently. It is not possible. If
you cut off this hand from this body and throw into the street, nobody will
care for it. But so long it is attached with this body, it has got millions
and trillions of dollars' value. If there is any trouble, you will be prepared
to spend any any amount. But when you are detached, this hand is detached from
this body, you don't care for it, even it is trampled down by any man. So this
is our position. We are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. There are many
examples I can give you. Just like a machine part, a screw. If it is fallen
down from the machine, it has no value. But if the machine is in trouble for
want of that screw, you'll purchase that screw to set in and spend many
dollars. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. If we remain
attached with the Supreme Lord, then we have got value. Otherwise we have no
value. Therefore Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, that sarva-dharman
parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just be attached to Me.
Then your all problems are solved."
So this Krsna consciousness movement is... Just like
you are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. You are now detached. We are
trying to dovetail you. That's all. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti sadhya kabhu
naya. This is not an artificial imposition on you. The Krsna consciousness is
there. The living example you can see, that I have got now branches, twenty
branches in Europe and America. They are neither Hindus nor Indian. How they
are accepting Krsna consciousness? In our society, International Society for
Krishna Consciousness, perhaps I am the only Indian. Perhaps I am the only
Indian. Perhaps it is fact. But why, how they are taking it? Because it is
there, Krsna consciousness is there, within you, within me, within everyone.
Simply we have to invoke it. That's all. And that invoking process is the
sankirtana movement. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you chant
this simple process, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare
Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, you'll very quickly clear up your heart
and you will understand, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah [Bg.
7.19]. You'll understand that Krsna, Vasudeva, is everything. So this movement
is neither manufactured nor bogus nor bluff, but it is genuine. It is
authorized and it is natural, constitutional. Try to understand this
philosophy. We are teaching nothing, no new philosophy. Bhagavad-gita as it
is, that's all. Unfortunately, Bhagavad-gita is read all over the world, but
there are many rascal interpreters. They have spoiled the whole thing. Simply
spoiled. So we are struggling against them. You try to understand
Bhagavad-gita as it is, and you get the thing. The thing is immediately
delivered. That is our request. And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated by
Sukadeva Gosvami. He says, kaler dosa-nidhe rajann asti hy eko mahan gunah:
"My dear King..." He was explaining Srimad-Bhagavatam to King Maharaja
Pariksit. So he says... Before saying this, he described about the condition
of this age of Kali. It is very... At the end of this age the condition will
be very horrible. So... Of course, there is not much time. Otherwise I would
have explained something. But you know. You are experiencing about this age.
So after explaining the difficulties of this age, Kali-yuga, of which five
thousand years we have already passed, and still, 427,000's of years are still
remaining... So we have to pass through. So he says, "My dear King, I have
explained to you the difficulties and miserable condition of this age,
Kali-yuga. But there is a great opportunity." Asti hy eko mahan gunah: "A very
nice thing is there," mahan gunah, "very great opportunity, great boon." And
what is that? Kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sangah param vrajet: [SB 12.3.51]
"Simply by chanting this Hare Krsna mantra, one can become freed from all
contamination and he'll be eligible to be promoted to the spiritual param."
Param means beyond this dark region. This material world is called tamah,
darkness. Just like there is no sun now. It is dark. We have to illuminate by
electric light, by moonlight, by so many things. Actually the nature is dark.
Therefore the Vedic injunction is tamasi ma jyotir gama: "Don't try to remain
in this dark region. Go to that effulgent region." Tamasi ma jyotir gama. The
Bhagavad-gita also says the same thing. Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama
paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah
[Bg. 8.20]. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita.
So our request is that you read Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Here there are many Englishmen and Indians. That is my request. I am not
charging anything. I am not making a profession. This sankirtana movement, we
are chanting freely. You can hear. There is... Not that it is a secret thing
-- if you pay me something, then I shall disclose. No. It is open secret.
Anyone can take, and there is no loss. If you chant Hare Krsna, there is no
loss, but there is great gain. You can try it. So we are freely distributing
it by chanting. You can join with us, you try to understand us, what is our
philosophy. We have got monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. We have got many
publications, Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. If you want
to understand this movement through philosophy, science argument, we are
prepared. There is ample opportunity for you. But if you simply chant, there
is no need of education, there is no need of philosophizing. Chant Hare Krsna,
Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare
Hare, and you gain everything.
Thank you.
Devotees: Haribol! [break]
Prabhupada: ...mantra, you'll have Krsna consciousness
as soon as... The process is to cleanse your heart. So when your heart will be
clear, then you'll understand your own position, your relationship with Krsna,
and your relationship with this world. Then you'll be able to chalk out your
plan, what to do. But without knowing your identity, whatever you are doing,
that is simply waste of time.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Would you say that Krsna is God
or Krsna is love?
Prabhupada: Well, without love how Krsna can be
God?
Guest (1): No, I ask you.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the real position. Krsna means
all-attractive. Anything which is all-attractive you generally love.
Guest (1): So the particle of man of the Supreme Being
is all-love.
Prabhupada: Yes. You are part and parcel of Krsna. You
want to love somebody, and Krsna wants to love you. This is loving exchange.
But instead of loving Krsna, you are trying to love something else. That is
your trouble. The love is there in you and Krsna, and when the love will be
exchanged between you and Krsna, that will be perfection of life.
Guest (1): Thank you.
Guest (2) (Indian woman): Would it matter if I worship
any other? Would it matter whether I worship Krsna or Siva or Christ or
Buddha? Would it matter? As long as... [break]
Prabhupada: If you worship Siva, you'll get Siva. If
you worship Krsna, you'll get Krsna. Why do you expect Krsna by worshiping
Siva? What is your idea?
Guest (2): My idea is, would it matter, I mean, if
instead of...
Prabhupada: Suppose if you purchase ticket for India,
you'll go to India. How you can go to hell?
Guest (2): That is not the point.
Prabhupada: This is the point. That is explained in the
Bhagavad-gita. Yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah [Bg.
9.25].
Guest (2): But my point is...
Prabhupada: Your point you understand. Why you don't
understand? This is the description of the Bhagavad-gita. If you worship
demigods like Siva and others, you will go there. And if you worship Krsna,
you'll go to Krsna. What is the difficulty to understand?
Guest (2): Do you mean that Siva is demigod?
Prabhupada: Yes, why not?
Guest (2): Because according to the philosophy...
Prabhupada: What is that philosophy?
Guest (2): Krsna says that it doesn't matter the way
you worship Him. All means has the same goal, reaches to the same goal. "You
can take the different paths, but you will come to Me eventually." Then why
you are saying that Siva is...
Prabhupada: Well, same goal, you just try to
understand. Same goal. Suppose you have to go to the forty-second or hundredth
story. Now, you are stepping one after another. The goal is there, the
forty-second story, but you cannot claim, after going a few steps, you say
that "I have come to the forty-second story." The path is one. That's all
right. But you have to reach the ultimate goal. You do not know what is the
ultimate goal. You simply say all paths reach to this goal, but you do not
know what is goal.
Guest (2): Because what I meant... I would like to
know... Suppose... This is the point that we want to recommend. We are like
drones(?), and we could go to Gokula in any way, in any other way.
Prabhupada: No. That is not explained in the
Bhagavad-gita, and that is your wrong interpretation. Any way, no. The same
way you have to go. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, mama
vartmanuvartante manusyah partha sarvasah: "Everyone is trying to come to Me,"
but someone has come a few steps, another has come to another few steps,
another step. Ultimately... That was... I explained it. You have to reach that
Vasudeva. That comes to the..., or that is possible after many, many births.
It is clearly said, "After many, many births," bahunam janmanam ante [Bg.
7.19], "one comes to this point." Another verse in the Bhagavad-gita, it is
said that kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah prapadyante 'nya-devatah [Bg. 7.20].
Anya-devatah. Those who are bewildered by lust, material lust, they go to
worship other demigods. So these things are there. How can you deny it?
Guest (2): I'm sorry, I couldn't agree with you that
Siva is a demigod. I couldn't believe it.
Prabhupada: That is stated in everywhere. You have to
learn it.
Guest (3) (Indian man): ...consciousness, then what is
that other Krsna? Or, other than Krsna, what ... And wherefrom...?
Prabhupada: Yes. I quite follow you. Everywhere is
sunshine, but still, the sun's situation is a particular place. The sunshine
is everywhere, but still, the sun planet is situated at a particular localized
place.
Guest (3): It is manifested locally. It is not
localized. It is manifested locally.
Prabhupada: But do you distinguish between sunshine and
the sun planet? Or you say because the sunshine has come within your room,
therefore sun planet has come within your room? Do you think like that?
Guest (3): It is a conception of the mind.
Prabhupada: Why mind? It is a fact. Why do you say
"mind"? Can you say that "Oh, because the sunshine has come within my room,
the sun planet has come"? Everyone will say you are a fool. It is not mind. It
is a fact. The sunshine is light, and the sun globe is light. So light is
there, both, but still, there is difference between sunshine and the sun
globe. That difference. Krsna and Krsna's energy everywhere. That is explained
in the Bhagavad-gita.
maya tatam idam sarvam
jagad
avyakta-murtina
mat-sthani sarva-bhutani
naham tesv
avasthitah
[Bg. 9.4]
"Although everything is resting on Me, still I am not
there."
Guest (4) (Indian man): Is this world a real place? Is
this world a real place?
Prabhupada: What do you mean by real?
Guest (4): According to what you were saying, it's
illusion.
Prabhupada: Yes. Illusion in this way, that when you
take it as a fact, but it is something else. It is not a fact. Maya. Mya means
ma-ya: "It is not this." Just like you are thinking that you'll be happy in
this material world by adjustment, but you'll never be happy. That is called
maya. So whatever you are struggling for, that is illusion.
Guest (4): If this is an illusion, then why is it here?
What's it doing here?
Prabhupada: Illusion is temporary existence. This is
also explained in the Bhagavad-gita, bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. It
comes into existence, just like cloud. Of course, we Vaisnava philosopher, we
do not say actually illusion. We say temporary. Actually we say temporary.
Anitya. Anitya. The exact word is anitya. Anitya means... Nitya means eternal,
and anitya means temporary. So we say this material world...
(end)