Philosophy Is Philosophy

Caracas, Febuary 21, 1975

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Prabhupada: University education is simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is different. Education is brahma-vidya, self-realization. Therefore in politics the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government, revolution. Why? From nature's study we can see one tree is producing a particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every year. Nature's way -- the sun is rising from the eastern side -- that is standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, "Let the sun rise from the north." It is childish, simply childish. "Eastern philosophers, Western..." What is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy. Why they talk of Eastern, Western?" Eastern sun, Western sun." Sun is always Eastern, never Western. How one can say, "Western sun?" [break] Just see. It is in the water, but the water is not over it. If the water increases, it also increases. See? There is no water on the leaf. Here you see. The water must be always down. [break] ...falling from the top of the Sumeru Hill, a big tree, and the juice, after falling down, turns into a river of mango juice. And the blackberries, they are just like the body of elephant and small seed. They also turn into river, Jambu-nada. And the both sides of the river, being moistened by the juice and dried by air and interacted by the sunshine, it becomes gold. And that gold is used for the denizens of heaven for their ornaments, helmets, bracelet, belt. Where is gold here? Paper. They cannot make even gold coins. They are reducing into poverty. In our childhood we have seen gold coin currency, silver coin. And now there is no such thing. Plastic. Paper and plastic. This is their advancement. Yes, it is a nice garden.Srutakirti: Yes. [break]
Hrdayananda: Things are very rapidly reducing.
Prabhupada: Yes. There will be no rice, no wheat, no sugar, no fruits, gradually. So much sinful activities, they must be punished like that. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...a question from the lawyer?
Prabhupada: Hm, don't come near. What is that?
Hrdayananda: He wanted to know what is the relation between the Vedic culture of India and the cultures that originally were in Latin America. There seemed to be some similarity, cultures such as the different Indian cultures.
Prabhupada: Formerly the whole world was Vedic culture. They have deteriorated, and India a simply glimpse is maintained still. And everywhere it is lost. (loud screeching noise of birds) Why they are angry?
Srutakirti: They're in a cage.
Paramahamsa: They're in, and we are out.
Prabhupada: Only birds?
Srutakirti: Do they have any other animals here, prabhu? Yeah? There are others.
Prabhupada: Animals? No.
Srutakirti: Bobcat or something? Mountain lion?
Hrdayananda: He asked a question about... In Latin America there's much belief or superstition in this so-called lost city of Atlantis. It's very famous all around the western world that there was a lost civilization called Atlantis. It fell down into the ocean.
Prabhupada: Maybe.
Hrdayananda: You said that by committing sinful activities one has to be punished by the laws of nature. So if one is repentant is he still punished?
Prabhupada: Yes, provided he is actually repentant.
Hrdayananda: Then he is not punished?
Prabhupada: Punished, but short cut. Karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam [Bs. 5.54]. That is for the devotees, not for the nondevotee. Nondevotee must be punished. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...ask a lot that if there could be a Krsna conscious society, would this mean to stop the industry and technology?
Prabhupada: Industry, technology you can continue, but practically it has no use. [break] Just like there is the bench, you can sit down on the ground, and to sit down little comfortably you manufacture the bench. So for sitting down, you can utilize the ground, but you are unnecessarily wasting your time and manufacturing... This is industry. [break] ...philosophy is that we have to save time for becoming fully Krsna conscious. That is our necessity. And if we divert our energy for sitting down comfortably, then time is wasted. That... There is natural mattress, and there is a natural pillow, so why should you manufacture pillow and mattress? This is Sukadeva Gosvami. And there is natural food, fruits. So... And if you want still nice home, go to the cave. It is already made. Why should you waste your time? This is the Bhagavata philosophy. But they are wasting time simply how to live in nice apartment, how to manufacture nice mattress, pillow. This is... So the whole philosophy is: save your time and make your life perfect within this short duration of life which you have obtained in this human form of life. Durlabham manusam janma. It is very rarely you have got. Utilize it. And if you don't utilize, if you waste your time in these bodily comforts and next life you become a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? They do not understand this. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...sometimes they raise... Just like you pointed out in the preface of the Bhagavatam that we're no longer in the Dark Ages in the sense that previously there was no communication due to the geographical boundaries and that even though other forms of technology may be useless, at least it's very beneficial to have different forms of communication such as telephone, telegraph, things like this, television. This is actually necessary.
Prabhupada: But that you can utilize for spreading Krsna consciousness, not for sense gratification. That is the defect. They are simply wasting time in sense gratification. If the telephone and the telegraph, television is used for propagating Krsna consciousness, then it is all right. But they are not doing that. We are utilizing the modern press facilities for printing Vedic scriptures. But they are utilizing the press for sex literature, Freud's philosophy. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...policy towards the problem of overpopulation and food shortage in the world now when the world leaders are not willing to do anything? What is our policy towards these problems?
Prabhupada: Produce food. But you are producing bolts and nuts. You eat them. Motor tire, you are producing motor tire, bolts and nuts. You eat it. (Hrdayananda translates into Spanish) (laughter) The energy is spoiled, creating problem. Everyone is engaged in manufacturing motor parts.
Guest: (Hrdayananda translates) He's saying that he himself is involved with political leaders, and he said he's found that they're completely unwilling. They don't want to hear anything about the solution, and they're completely stuck to their own way. So what can ISKCON do...
Prabhupada: They will suffer, that's all.
Hrdayananda: He said is there anything we can do in the political field to try to...
Prabhupada: If they will not take, they don't want to hear, then they must suffer.
Hrdayananda: He's saying all the human race is suffering due to the bad points of the leaders.
Prabhupada: Yes, because the rascal leaders.
Hrdayananda: So there's nothing that we should do? [break] This food relief program that you started in India could also be used in other countries where there are also economic problems.
Prabhupada: Why not? But prasadam, not ordinary food. From all our centers you can distribute food, prasadam, because that prasadam means they will gradually become Krsna conscious. Otherwise if you give them ordinary food, they will get strength, and they will increase their sex desire, that's all, problems. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...the movement who previously had been expert in mathematics, how could he use that for Krsna's service if he's expert in mathematics?
Prabhupada: Mathematics? So you can calculate, "After so many years the whole universe will be destroyed." (laughter) Not of the universe but everyone's life. This body will be destroyed. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. And again you get another body. It will stay for so many years. Again you annihilate. Again you get. In this way eternal time is being wasted.
Hrdayananda: In the modern world the engineers are designing everything. So how can an engineer use his talent for Krsna?
Prabhupada: Design a temple, nice temple. There are wonderful temples, very expert engineering. And they were ordinary men but the engineer was so nice that nobody can manufacture such temple in the whole world, still.
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada, that was really wonderful, what you explained, that previously the people would build a very wonderful temple, and the ordinary people would just live in a very common, simple house.
Prabhupada: Not for themselves. They knew the art how to manufacture nice building, but they did not care for personal use. It was used for Krsna. Sometimes only the kings, in order to keep their position, they used to have gorgeous building. Otherwise ordinary men, cottage. [break] To live in cottage means to save time.
Mexican devotee: Srila Prabhupada, in one of the magazines I read that there was a saint who he didn't even construct a rug?
Prabhupada: Yes. Romaharsana. [break] Bhagavad-gita it is said, yajnad bhavanti parjanyah, yajnad bhavanti parjanyah. If there is timely cloud and rainfall, this ground can be moistened very easily. But they won't perform yajna; therefore there is scarcity of cloud and rain. Now they have to manufacture this sprinkler. And it is not perfect. [break]
Hrdayananda: Another question, Prabhupada. He said that you have stated that Kali-yuga will last for around 400,000 more years and then it will be finished and that the culture will gradually degrade, people will become very short and so on and so forth. So he's wondering if there will be geographical changes in the world or if the culture as we know it now will simply disappear and how the people will be... More or less, he's wondering what will become of the earth.
Prabhupada: Because they will not get sufficient food, shelter, bodily necessities. Just like it is already declining, already declining. Just formerly in our childhood we saw the Western people very tall. Now they are not tall. They are decreasing already. [break] In the Western countries, still there are some but in other countries they are very lean, thin and drawn. Stature of the body will decrease. Memory will decrease. It is already taking place. So in this way, you just imagine, in 400,000 years after, what will be the condition. You take mathematical calculation. (laughter) [break]
Hrdayananda: He's asking again about geographically, what will it be like as far as temperatures and the different continents. That's what he's interested in.
Prabhupada: Yes, gradually everything will be barren. At the end of annihilation everything will be barren and by scorching the sunlight will be twelve times higher. So everything will be barren and burned into ashes.
Devotee: Hiranyaksa was taking the gold from the earth. Now they are taking the oil. So the weight, the oil makes weight in some parts of the globe, no? So when they take it and they put it some place else or they convert it in the earth, the earth is losing weights in some parts. That is no going to cause...
Prabhupada: I think I have explained this. Instead of contemplating what will happen to this world, you have got a short duration of life, say fifty, sixty years. You chant Hare Krsna and go back to home, back to Godhead. Don't consider what will happen to this world. The nature will take care of it. You don't puzzle your brain with these thoughts. You utilize whatever time you have got in your possession and go back to home, back to Godhead. [break] You cannot check it. Best thing is that you mold your life and go back to home, back to Godhead. "Oil in your own machine." Instead of thinking what will happen... They will happen. Because people will go on with their rascal civilization, natural consequences will be there. You better take advantage of whatever time you have got and become fully Krsna conscious and go back to home. [break] ...and we are thinking, "You are crazy. You are losing the opportunity of life." Therefore I wrote that "Who is Crazy?" They have got this opportunity, human form of life, to make a solution of all problems, but they do not care for it. They are simply allured, the temporary happiness of this body, and the body will finish within some years. That they do not take care. They think it is all in all, body.
Hrdayananda: So that's animal life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Animal civilization. The animal is running without motor car. We are running on motor car. That is the difference. [break] ...smallpox. One who does not know the science, he will say accidental. It is not accidental. You contaminated the disease somewhere, and now it is visible, manifest. There is nothing like accident. Otherwise why it is Brahma-samhita says, sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1]. Karana means cause. Everything has got cause. The ultimate cause is Krsna. [break] The cause is petrol, oil, but what is the cause of this petrol, they do not know.
Hrdayananda: That would be real science to know the cause of the petrol.
Prabhupada: Yes. How petrol is produced in so large quantity? Who has made this arrangement? How it is producing? They are not interested.
Hrdayananda: So as you were saying then, just to manipulate the petrol in different ways, that's like the art, as you've been saying.
Prabhupada: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Krsna. His intelligence is also made by Krsna. Krsna is giving the body. Krsna is giving the intelligence. Krsna is giving the wood. Krsna is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Hrdayananda: That's practically the law everywhere.
Prabhupada: Everywhere.
Hrdayananda: Carpenter comes and he pays him.
Prabhupada: And he is given payment. He is given food, shelter, everything, to work for Krsna. Now Krsna, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam [Bg. 5.29]. Whatever activities are going on there, the enjoyer is Krsna, nobody else.
Hrdayananda: So that's like a new light that you have given. I noticed in your lectures that you were always saying that these things were art. It took a while for me to understand it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nothing belongs to you. Why should you claim it is yours? They are claiming North America "ours," South America "ours." So how it became yours? It was already there, and you came as a immigrant, and it becomes yours? [break] Karmis, they are claiming, "It is our property." And the jnanis, they are living that "This is mithya," and give it up. Both of them in the wrong. It is created by somebody, how you can say mithya, false? Mayavadi says, brahma satyam jagan mithya: "The whole cosmic manifestation is false." How it is false? And karmis, they are claiming unnecessarily, "It is mine." Creator is different person, and he is claiming, "mine". That is also false.
Hrdayananda: So they are both envious of Krsna.
Prabhupada: They do not know Krsna. Foolish. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas

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Responsible Jackles

Paris, August 12, 1975

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Bhagavan: They are getting cheated from all sides. The scientists are cheating them...Prabhupada: No, they want to be cheated. What can be done? Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. Just like the advertisement, "No faith, no philosophy, no restriction." You want all these things; therefore he has come to cheat you: "Yes. No regulation. You can do whatever you like." And then he will praised, "Oh, he is good, good swamiji. He has no restriction. And here is a most conservative swamiji. 'Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this.' " They want to be cheated. As soon as you speak the truth they will not accept. They will argue. What is the wrong in illicit sex? Why he's restricting? This is the... They go to guru to teach the guru, not to take lesson from the guru. What is that?
Madhavananda: ...thinks that they have some responsibility in the world, and if you say all of a sudden that "You have no responsibility..."
Prabhupada: That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that "Yes, you have responsibility so long you are not Krsna conscious," not that a person who is not in the devotional service of the Lord, he can say, "I have no responsibility." He cannot say.
Bhagavan: Duty.
Prabhupada: He cannot. He has all the duties. But one who has taken to Krsna consciousness without any reservation, he has no duty. He has no respons...
devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam pitrnam
nayam rni na kinkaro rajan
sarvatmana ye saranam saranyam
gato mukundam parihrtya kartam
 [SB 11.5.41]
This is the statement. As soon as we take birth, we have got so many responsibilities. We are responsible to perform sacrifices for all the demigods. You are taking light from the sun. You have got responsibility. Otherwise how you are getting so much light? If you don't pay the electric bill, the next day it will be disconnected. And you are taking so much light from the sun. You have no responsibility? You have. "No, there is no responsibility. You are taking light, air, water. So many things you are taking, supplied by the different demigods. Deva, rsi, rsi, great... Just like Vyasadeva or many other rsis, they have given you knowledge, and you have no responsibility? You have responsibility.
Madhavananda: Then the responsibility for some is to Krsna; the responsibility of some is to the demigods?
Prabhupada: Yes. Demigods, you have got responsibility. Deva, rsi, bhuta, living entities. Just like you are taking milk from the cows. You have the responsibility to protect it, but you are killing. So you must suffer.
Bhagavan: So the present system is simply expert at producing completely irresponsible people.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are talking of responsibility. But one who is devotee... Eh?
Bhagavan: They say we are irresponsible.
Prabhupada: No, we are not irresponsible. We have finished all responsibility. We are not irresponsible. But we are in such a position that we have passed all these responsibilities.
Madhavananda: So, Srila Prabhupada, when you told this lady, this woman last night, that she should give up her responsibilities...
Prabhupada: Take to Krsna consciousness. That is the only respons... Then you can... Not that you give up all responsibility. First of all take to Krsna responsibility. Then there is no responsibility. Give up something; take something. Then it is all right. And give up everything and then you zero.
Brahmananda: But they see responsibility only in terms of making a bank balance and having a nice home and satisfying our...
Prabhupada: Therefore they are suffering. In spite of bank balance, they are suffering.
Harikesa: (whispering) ...finding it impossible on that side. Excuse me. [break]
Prabhupada: ...said, suppose you have not done your responsibility properly, so then you have become sinful. Hm? Is it not? So Krsna gives assurance that "You surrender to Me, and I give you protection from all sins." So even you think that "By giving up my all other responsibilities I am taking shelter of You. Then I will be punishable for my sinful act," so Krsna says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. Then where is my responsibility? I become free immediately, provided I surrender to Krsna without any reservations. Then. Then it is. Otherwise not.
Brahmananda: They will say that suffering is a part of life, that suffering is a necessary part of life.
Prabhupada: Then why you are trying to get out of suffering? Suffer, rascal. Why you are trying to get out of suffering. Why?
Brahmananda: Because they don't like it. But they say you have to accept it.
Prabhupada: Then, if you say... If it is a part of life, why don't you like it? Suffer. Go on suffering. You are accepting as part of life because you cannot get out of it. "The grapes are sour." That's all. After jumping, jumping, jumping, when it is not available, "Oh, the grapes are sour. It is no... There is no necessity." Jackal's philosophy.
Bhagavan: They will surrender to the misery, but they will not surrender to Krsna.
Prabhupada: That is their disease.
Yogesvara: Srila Prabhupada? When you speak of taking care of your responsibilities for Krsna, doesn't that also have a material aspect to it? Just like a parent must bring up the child, must take care of the child, train it to read, and to write, and so on...
Prabhupada: Yes. That means we are taking care of the children -- why? Just to make them Krsna conscious, not to become cats and dogs. This is our responsibility. That is Krsna conscious, that "Here is a child. He may be saved to make him Krsna conscious." Therefore we are taking so much care in the Dallas. We are not irresponsible. But our responsibility is there, that "Make him Krsna conscious."
Yogesvara: So when we say that we have finished all responsibility by surrendering to Krsna, that doesn't mean that we've abandoned execution of duty, does it?
Prabhupada: No, no. Who says that?
Yogesvara: Well, some people say that "You've taken to Krsna consciousness and now you have given up all of your..."
Prabhupada: It is not duty? This is the main duty. This is the main duty. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam [Bg. 18.66]. We have taken responsibility for Krsna consciousness movement. We are doing. Why we are traveling all over the world thrice in a year? We have taken the responsibility. Otherwise, who is, an old man, he'll take such responsibility? That is a greater responsibility. When you become a big officer of the government, it means you overburdened with responsibility, not this flickering resp... Here the material respons... means it has no use. You are simply wasting time. And here is real responsibility and real life. That I explained to that lady, that "Even if you take respons... what can you do? You cannot do anything." The example I gave, that "You have taken responsibility for your son's disease. He is suffering. You have brought good physician, you have brought good medicine, everything, but what can you do? In spite of your all responsibility, your son dies. Then where is the value of your responsibility?" Do you think simply by bringing a nice physician and nice medicine you can save your son? Then where is your responsibility? Actually you cannot do anything, so what is the use of saying that "I am responsible"? You cannot do anything. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. If one blind man says, "I'll take responsibility. You all blind men follow me," so what is the use of this responsibility? He will die and others will die. So what is the meaning of this responsibility? Even if you take as very responsible man, you cannot do anything. That is not possible. You cannot save. Who wants that "My son dies, my father dies, and I'll take them and..."? But one little disease will finish your responsibi... Every nation is taken, all the leaders, and as soon as there is war, thousands and thousands will be killed. What responsibility? As soon as one atom bomb is dropped, then is many thousand will be finished. Then what is your responsibility? You cannot give. You can make a statue: "These soldiers died. These soldiers died." That's all. But you could not save them from death.
Madhavananda: Then they would say that we also must die. Everyone must die.
Prabhupada: Yes, we die -- to live forever. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. We die for that. This is the last death.
Madhavananda: Then they will say, "How do we know?"
Prabhupada: That... You are rascal. How you will know? You come to my feet; then you will know. (laughter)
Brahmananda: To your feet or to your boot.
Prabhupada: Yes, provided there is boot. Yes. Therefore there is a Vedic injunction, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "Because you are fool, rascal, you must approach a guru." That is the way. Sa gurum eva, eva, "certainly," abhigacchet, "must go." Otherwise there is no possibility. You remain as foolish forever and suffer.
Yogesvara: There is one German historian named Frederick Engels.
Prabhupada: Yes, he is another foolish. (laughter) I can...
Yogesvara: He wrote against Vedic culture by saying that even the brahmanas of Vedic culture were not responsible because the culture failed. It ended at a certain period in history. It was simply exploitation of the workers under the guise of religion. That was his argument.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: That was not the fault of the
Prabhupada: The argument of foolish man -- who is caring? Vedic culture when finished?
Yogesvara: [break] ...five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: Five thousand years ago. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu, five hundred years, how He accepted if it is finished? He is more than Caitanya Mahaprabhu, this rascal?
Yogesvara: Haribol.
Bhagavan: They are willing to take so many material risks, but they are not willing to try spiritual life.
Prabhupada: That is their fault. That is their foolishness. Mudho nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. Therefore they are called mudhas.
Yogesvara: How would we define the word responsibility in Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: Responsibility is that you have got this human form of life. Realize God. This is your responsibility. Otherwise you are finished. Three words: "You have got this human form of life. Your only responsibility is to understand God. This is your responsibility." That is Vedic culture. For understanding God, many, many kings, many, many saints, they left everything and went to the forest to realize God. That is Vedic culture. Bharata Maharaja, under whose name India is called Bharatavarsa, he was the emperor of this planet, and at the age of twenty-four years he left everything to realize God. This is Vedic culture. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, His position was very, very nice, as a grhastha -- a nice beautiful wife, affectionate mother, good influence, brahmana family, learned scholar, everything first class. He left everything just to show us. He was God Himself, but to set the example, tyaktva sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-laksmim [SB 11.5.34]. He gave up a kingdom of fortune which is aspired by the demigods. Such a nice life, such a nice family, but He gave up. Tyaktva sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-laksmim dharmistha arya... [SB 11.5.34]. Just to teach us the process of realizing God. This is Vedic system. [break] Somebody may not push. [break] ...water? No. Very deep?
Dhananjaya: Not so much here. [break]
Prabhupada: When you ask me... What is that, definition of respons...? So you understand what is the responsibility?
Yogesvara: We have this human life. We must realize God.
Prabhupada: This, three words. Make the rascals understand it. We speak the whole responsibility in three words. Is it complete or not?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Or you have got any protest? This is the only...
Bhagavan: Let Srila Prabhupada go through.
Brahmananda: They have not taken God realization as a responsibility.
Prabhupada: That is their misfortune.
Brahmananda: Simply as a pastime.
Prabhupada: That is their ignorance. They do not know what is respons...
Madhavananda: They would say that so many may have taken God realization as responsibility, following some Christ... church or something like that, but they are also frustrated.
Prabhupada: We are not frustrated. Eh? We are not frustrated. Are we frustrated? Then? How the rascal says, "frustrated"? If you take false thing, then you will be frustrated. If you take real path of God realization, there is no question of frustration. It is anandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing pleasure, no frustration.
Madhavananda: Then they say that no one has real information of God.
Prabhupada: You have no, rascal, because you are rascal. I have got. You just wash my feet, and I will inform you.
Devotees: Jaya. Haribol. [break]
Prabhupada: ...not know how to swim; that does not mean I do not. Is it a very honest statement? Oh, nobody can swim because he does not know. But if anyone knows how to swim, then why do you say that no one has done? You do not know. You accept that.
Madhavananda: Everyone thinks in terms of their own relative position.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Even an insignificant bird, because he knows swimming, he knows swimming, so he can challenge, and because you do not know swimming, you cannot say like that. Even insignificant bird, just see how nicely he is swimming. He knows the art. [break] ...one, cent percent of the modern people, they do not believe in God, and they do not know what is religion. That is the position. They think, "Religion is sentiment. Anyone can manufacture his own sentiment. There is no God." This is the position. So we are in fault. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is under this conception. Therefore we are at fault. We are preaching God consciousness.
Brahmananda: Generally they make it difficult for us to preach.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: They hinder us in so many ways.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: Because they have not realized that we have taken a responsibility. When a man has a responsibility usually he is given some certain facilities to carry out that responsibility.
Prabhupada: Everyone, cent percent godless, neither they have got intelligence to understand what is God. This is the position.
Yogesvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...
Prabhupada: Yes. Our organization is that. Why we are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Krsna is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. He is not easygoing, armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.
Madhavananda: Therefore Krsna recognizes by giving knowledge of Himself?
Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna immediately gives him all facilities.
Madhavananda: There has never been a movement like this which has given factual knowledge of God. Therefore they think it's sentiment, religion.
Prabhupada: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal?
Yogesvara: (aside:) The top has come down? (pause)
Prabhupada: What is the... Time now?
Harikesa: 6:17.
Prabhupada: Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving: Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi. They took responsibility, but they were driven away. What can I do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then where is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman -- you have taken responsibility -- but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executed? The Napoleon was given horse urine. You know? By the Britishers.
Brahmananda: To drink.
Prabhupada: Yes. At the last stage when he was asking for water he was given horse urine. He died like that. Hitler committed suicide. Gandhi was killed. So where is their responsibility? They falsely thinking, "Without me, everything will be lost." But they are kicked out; everything is going on.
Dhananjaya: It's the same with President De Gaulle. President De Gaulle.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now, Nixon is there, but when he was on the office, he was thinking, "Without me America will go to hell." But he has gone to hell; America is there. (laughter) Just see. Just see the position of the... You can see the Nixon. When he was in the office, oh, he was a big man. He was responsible man. Now he is kicked out. He is begging, and America is going on. Where is the need of this responsibility? For several months he was asked that "You give up your responsibility." The rascal will not give: "No, without me America will go to hell." Just see. This is responsible.
Yogesvara: All of these big politicians, they seem to fall very ill afterwards. They seem to become very sick. Nixon is also sick.
Prabhupada: Not only sick, they die very soon.
Yogesvara: Radhakrishnan was paralyzed.
Prabhupada: Yes. Brain paralyzed. [break]
Harikesa: Give this to Yogesvara. (Prabhupada and devotees get into car and drive away)
Bhagavan: Actually they are envious. We are doing the same things they are doing, but better, and getting the results. We are working. We are doing so many things like they...
Prabhupada: We are not lazy. [break] ...Nixon was elected. I saw propaganda, "America needs Nixon." You have seen?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: People also thought, "Yes." He never said, "Nixon needs money." (laughter) This is cheating. He needs some money; he said, "America needs Nixon." And the rascals were befooled. [break] All these politicians do like that. What is their responsibility?
Brahmananda: Now Nixon is in debt. He is now in debt.
Prabhupada: Debt? Why?
Brahmananda: For his legal fees. He owes 300,000 dollars. So one rabbi...
Prabhupada: So he cannot give 300,000 dollars?
Brahmananda: No, he has no money. He had to pay taxes.
Prabhupada: So we are paying 300,000. So we are better than him. [break] ...rabbi is a Jew?
Brahmananda: Yes. So this rabbi, he is a personal friend. He has taken the responsibility for raising the money. Actually the fees were 500,000. He has already raised 200,000. 300,000 to go.
Prabhupada: And nobody is excusing the fee, the lawyers?
Brahmananda: No. But now he is writing his book.
Prabhupada: Yes, another fallacy.
Brahmananda: For that book he will get two and a half million dollars.
Prabhupada: About his life history?
Brahmananda: Yes. He is very sick now. Now he sleeps twelve hours a day.
Prabhupada: Oh. That is good. [break] He is released from all political obligations or not?
Brahmananda: From the charges?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: No. Actually he can be called to give testimony.
Prabhupada: Testimony?
Brahmananda: Yes. There are certain pending investigations. So he is eligible for being called to give testimony for these investigations. But on the plea of his bad health, therefore he is not being called. He is afraid actually. Right now he does not go to any social gatherings, he does not make any public appearances. He is afraid that as soon as he makes public appearances, then he will be called to give testimony. So he is actually being forced to live a very lonely life.
Prabhupada: Lonely life means drinking. What he will do? [break] ...this was made by Napoleon?
Bhagavan: Yes.
Brahmananda: So the arch is still here. (laughs)
Prabhupada: People, they come to see the arch. Just like in Rome, so many broken buildings, thousands of men go to see them, and they get good income, tourist.
Bhagavan: On New Year's we took our sankirtana party through that arch.
Brahmananda: Many people come here?
Bhagavan: For New Year's. And they all applauded us.
Prabhupada: There is another arch this side? No. Where is the other boy? I do not see him. What was the name? Yesterday he was there. One of your...
Brahmananda: Visvambhara?
Bhagavan: Oh. He is managing things at the farm today. (end)

 

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Peace in Society of Dogs

Bombay, November 2, 1975

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Prabhupada: That is the first education, first instruction in the Bhagavad-gita, beginning of Bhagavad-gita-dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. Unless one understands that "There is change of body and I am spirit soul within this body," he remains a cat and dog, and that's all. Dehatma-buddhih. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. So we are keeping this civilization -- animals. How there can be peace? You cannot make several dogs, bring them together as nation, and they will live peacefully. It is not possible that "You all dogs come here and feel nationally and be peaceful." Will the dogs will be able to do that? Because you are dog, it is not possible.Dr. Patel: (Hindi) They fight among themselves for nothing.
Prabhupada: Yes. So they are keeping them cats and dogs by education, culture, and they want to be happy. How it is possible? First of all let them come to the standard of human being. Then there is question of peace and happiness. They are kept as cats and dogs, and how there can be peace? You cannot make any peace in the dog society. That is not possible. Hare Krsna. So that consciousness can come only when one is spiritually educated. If he is simply engaged for satisfying the senses, material, then he remains a cat and dog. You cannot expect any peace.
Dr. Patel: I think the greatest damage done to this civilization of Aryans of India was by MacCauley, who introduced the British system of education.
Prabhupada: But why you accepted that? (laughter) Why you accepted? Then why don't you accept? You should have refused.
Dr. Patel: Well, we were not there to refuse. We came afterwards. Our forefathers gave us...
Prabhupada: No, you can... Just like they are reforming. Their forefathers were drunkards, woman-hunters, (laughter) and they are reformed, the great-grandchildren. And we old men, we cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: I talk of MacCauley...
Prabhupada: MacCauley may mislead you. Why you should believe?
Dr. Patel: He misled our forefathers.
Prabhupada: No, why you should be misled?
Dr. Patel: Now we are going to lead them. Are you not leading them?
Prabhupada: Yes. Your forefathers might have been misled, but why you will commit the same mistake again?
Dr. Patel: Now we have improved upon the mistake and we are leading them, and we will lead them.
Prabhupada: No, that is not the fact. These boys, European, American boys, they were misled from the very beginning of their life, but how they are improving in spiritual consciousness? The thing is we are not prepared to take up our own culture. That is...
Dr. Patel: That's right, sir. God must have some, something to fulfill.
Prabhupada: Take for example our big leader, Mahatma Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gita. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"
Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.
Prabhupada: Then where is the question of nationalism?
Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...
Prabhupada: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."
Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...
Prabhupada: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samah sarvesu bhutesu. When? Brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. [break] Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... [break] ...nirmatsaranam. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhagavata says that this... Bhagavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarsa asahanam. This is called matsarata. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Krsna conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible. What is that, mam aprapyaiva mudha janmani janmani [Bg. 16.20]?
Dr. Patel: Aprapyaiva mam eva.
Prabhupada: One who is not Krsna conscious, birth after birth he will be pushed into the atheist family, that's all. Mudha janmani janmani asuresu [Bg. 16.20]. What is that verse?
Dr. Patel: Mam aprapya adhamam...
Prabhupada: Adhamamam gatim. So their result is they'll go down and down. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Then how he comes up?
Prabhupada: By Krsna consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Tri-gunasya.
Prabhupada: That is
mam cavyabhicarini
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
 [Bg. 14.26]
If you engage him in devotional service, immediately he is transferred to the spiritual platform. That is wanted.
Dr. Patel: Kamah krodhas tada lobhas tasmad evam... Tri-vidham narakasya-dvaram.
Prabhupada: Ah! Yes. Yes. On the material platform, he... The human life is meant for spiritual culture. Athato brahma jijnasa. But they have rejected. They are simply busy. Athato deha-jijnasa. That's all. Dehatma-buddhi.
Dr. Patel: I have got little point on this, that after all, the spirituality within you, namely atma, cannot remain independently without this body, so you have got to look after the body.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is not the fact. If you are actually spiritually advanced, you don't care for it. Deha smrti nahi yar samsara bandhana kahan tanra. It is just like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. He had no spiritual... er, material con... He was eating every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all. How he was living in Vrndavana? So when one is perfectly on the spiritual platform, there is no bodily necessities. That is the sign. Therefore our civilization is to decrease the bodily necessities, not to increase. Control. Control, from the brahmacari, control, control, control. Ultimately completely control. That is perfectional stage. Tyagena. What is that verse?
Dr. Patel: Isavasyam idam sarvam yat kincid jagatyam... [Iso mantra 1].
Prabhupada: No, tapasa brahmacaryena tyagena yamena va [SB 6.1.13]. This is wanted. Tapasa. Beginning. Tapasya means that controlling the senses. That is tapasya. And the tapasya begins...
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) ...brahma.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tapasya means... Beginning is brahmacarya. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. So where is brahmacarya?
Dr. Patel: Brahman prati acarati asa brahmacari.(?) All the senses. Not only the upasthas, but all the ten senses, including your mind and the discriminating buddhi, all are directed toward serving feet of God, and then he does not... That is real brahmacari.
Prabhupada: That, yes. Devotee means brahmacari. Pure devotee means brahmacari. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. He has no other desire. That is brahmacari. [break] This building is meant for playing cards. Somebody knows?
Giriraja: Club. I don't think this one is. No, behind it.
Gopala Krsna: This looks like a residential apartment building.
Giriraja: Indira's daughter stays here. Indira? It belongs to her niece's family. So sometimes her niece was staying here, and she used to come to the temple every day. There's another which is a club.
Prabhupada: ...tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma idya-dhih, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesu abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. South Africa... (Hindi) ...successful.
Dr. Patel: South Africa, majority of them are rooting Holland. Not many other.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, there are all kinds of Europeans.
Dr. Patel: No, but majority of them are Hollanders. That is why this, they were against the Britishers.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. So in South Africa we had very successful programs.
Dr. Patel: You are going to have a temple there?
Prabhupada: Yes, we have already there.
Dr. Patel: Did you go to East Africa also?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Nairobi.
Dr. Patel: Nkrumah(?) wants money from anybody who goes and sees him as if he's a god.
Prabhupada: But where we have got money?
Dr. Patel: That is what I say. And he has all his money in Switzerland, Swiss banks. This is how they ruling these poor people.
Gopala Krsna: ...one of the richest men in the world.
Devotee (2): Who?
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih sarva... [Bg. 3.27]. You are fully under the control of the material nature. You must submit.
Dr. Patel: Yam yam va... tyajanti deham. That is how, I mean, Bharat got mrga because he was continuously in his mind was there.
Prabhupada: No, there is no such education, that there are dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13] and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mudha. Mudha, rascal. Duskrtino mudha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gita. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gita and make his life perfect, but because he is mudha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.
Dr. Patel: mayayapahrta-jnanam asurim bhavam asritah.
Prabhupada: Ah! Although he is very proud of his material knowledge, it has no value. Because he is dependent on the laws of material nature, what his knowledge will help him? Suppose a very big man of this material world, he commits some sin. Does it mean that because he has got big qualification he will be saved from the laws? No. He must suffer. So mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot avoid even these material laws, so how you can avoid the nature's law? Mama maya duratyaya. Very, very difficult, but still, they are thinking, "Oh, we are independent. We can do anything." Therefore mudhas.
Dr. Patel: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam...
Prabhupada: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Krsna and be Krsna conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Krsna has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Krsna. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyasa and become guru. Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them." "Now, how shall I do it?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Simply speak. Don't become very big upstart. Simply speak what Krsna has done. That's all. You become guru." (Hindi) "Oh, Krsna has said this. The meaning of this is this," as Krsna left the meaning to be declared or understood by some fools and rascals. This is going on.
Dr. Patel: Sir, what is this
yatha pravrttir bhutanam
yena sarvam idam tatam
sva-karmana tam abhyarcya
siddhim vindati manavah
 [Bg. 18.46]
Prabhupada: That is Krsna consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Sva-karmana?
Prabhupada: Yes. You are doctor. You can serve Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Sve sve karmany abhiratah. According to your, I mean, sva-dharma.
Prabhupada: This is perfection of life, that...
atah pumbhir dvija-srestha
varnasrama-vibhagasah
svanusthitasya dharmasya
samsiddhir hari-tosanam
 [SB 1.2.13]
You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Krsna. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. Even that karma is abominable, sa-dosam api na tyajet [Bg. 18.48]. "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Krsna. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Krsna. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmana. He did not leave his position as a ksatriya, as a grhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it." This is Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) [break] You remain in your place, but you have your ears to hear Krsna. Then you'll be perfect. What is the difficulty? You remain as a doctor. You remain as a pleader. You remain whatever you like. It doesn't matter. But engage your aural reception to the words of Krsna. Then you become perfect. What is the difficulty? Simply sit down and hear what Krsna says, Bhagavad-gita. That's all. And if you say that "I simply hear," and if you do not act, no, you'll act because as you go on hearing, your heart will be purified. Then you will be inclined to hear..., er, act.
Indian man (3): I was going to ask this question, but... (laughing)
Prabhupada: Yes. srnvatam sva-katha krsnah punya sravana... Because by hearing Krsna, you'll be purified. Punya-sravana. Simply by hearing, you'll be pious. And as soon as you become pious, then you can understand Krsna. Yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya... [Bg. 7.28]. But nobody will come here. They'll go to the restaurant, club, the playing cards. Nobody will come. We are opening so many centers that the rascals may come and hear and become pious. That will also not do. Caitanya Mahaprabhu regretted that. Etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan mamapi durdaivam idrsam ihajani nanu... "You have done so much favor to us, but I am so unfortunate that I have no desire to hear You." (Hindi) So much unfortunate. [break] That I have already explained, that akusam adhikaro. (laughter) Yes. Caitanya... One of the disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Prabodhananda Sarasvati, he has taught us,
dante nidhaya trnakam padayor nipatya
kaku-satam krtva caham bravimi
he sadhavah sakalam eva nihaya durad
caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam
This is our process. What is that? Now, the Indian system of becoming humble is to take a straw in the mouth. (Hindi)  Dante nidhaya trnakam: "So I am taken a grass in my mouth," and padayor nipatya: "I am falling down your lotus feet," and krtva ca kaku-satam: "And flattering you hundred times. I am submitting you." So any man will agree, "All right, say." So as soon as you give me the chance, then I say. What I say? He sadhavah: "You are a very great personality, sadhu." "Then? What do you want?" Now, sakalam eva: "Whatever nonsense you have learned, please forget." (laughter) "Whatever nonsense rascaldom you have learned, please forget." "Then what shall I do?" Kuru caitanya-candra-carane anuragam. This is our preaching. First of all we shall...
Dr. Patel: Don't forget architecture. I tell him, don't forget architecture, the important just now. (laughing) Forget other thing.
Prabhupada: Hm. This is the process. First of all flatter him. When he agrees, "Please tell me..."
Dr. Patel: How he became this.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) Ask submissively, that "Forget all rascaldom, whatever you have learned, because you do not know what is knowledge. You have simply learned all rascaldom. So please forget it." This is our preaching.
Dr. Patel: Tell me that knowledge by which I know everything, according to that..., that boy? In Upanisad?
Prabhupada: So that is, Krsna is speaking. You know everything. By hearing Krsna, you know everything. But we'll not do that. We shall stick to that rascaldom, what you have learned. Krsna says mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam... [Bg. 18.66]. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: ...man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65].
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu was eulogized by Rupa Gosvami, namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. (aside:) Hare Krsna. "You are, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, You are the most munificent because You are giving krsna-prema, which is very, very difficult." (aside:) Jaya. [break] ...not because he... In the beginning I said they will not. (laughter) (Hindi) [break] ...rise early. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: You go to bed at two-thirty.
Prabhupada: No.
Indian (4): No. Two-thirty. Gets up two o'clock.
Dr. Patel: I go to bed at nine o'clock.
Brahmananda: One.
Dr. Patel: I go to bed at nine o'clock, so I get up at three o'clock. So let us do like that. Both of us go to bed at nine o'clock, take a bath... (laughs)
Prabhupada: No, I go at ten o'clock and get up by two. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: ...vacanam tava.
Prabhupada: Yes. Na ca tasmad manusyesu kascid me priya-krttamah. (Hindi) If we want to be recognized by Krsna, this is the simple process: go and flatter persons, "Please hear some words from Bhagavata," that's all. And actually we are doing that. We are not learned, very scholarly.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I read your commentary on Bhagavad-gita and Ramanujacarya's. They are absolutely parallel.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I think you have taken out of it... (laughter)
Prabhupada: How can I...
Dr. Patel: I am just joking.
Prabhupada: No, no. Our process is to take from the acaryas. We are not manufacturing. We are not so fools and rascals that we have to manufacture. We have to take the remnants of foodstuff given by the acarya and explain in the modern way so that people may... That is our business.
Dr. Patel: Completely parallel.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why should I... If it is parallel, then it is my success.
Brahmananda: Yes. It's very complimentary.
Dr. Patel: His Sanskrit is very wonderful. Acarya...
Prabhupada: If it is parallel, that is my success. And if it is not parallel, then it is useless. But they want to give something of his own foolish ideas. That has become nowadays, scholars. If you give some foolish idea -- "Oh, he is a great philosopher." That's it. And our process is evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo [Bg. 4.2]. We have to receive from the a... acaryopasanam. That is the way. And this Subodhini-tika, Ballabhacarya, as soon as he says, "I have done something better than Sridhara Svami," immediately Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected him: "Oh, you have done better than Sridhara Svami?"
Dr. Patel: Sridhara Svami has made it more or less...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, you cannot reject. You cannot say that "I have done better than Sridhara Svami." If you simply following the footprints of Sridhara Svami, that is vaisakti(?), not that "I have done better than him."
Dr. Patel: All Vaisnava Acaryas are more or less parallel. There's a little difference here and there. It is not much...
Prabhupada: No, there is no difference. Everything. It is, rather, more...
Dr. Patel: In philosophy there is no difference, sir. But in...
Prabhupada: In presentation, clarify. Yes. That is our business. Just like what I am doing. I am following the Acaryas, but I am presenting, writing in such a way the modern man can understand. This is our point.
Dr. Patel: Modern man. Modernizing? (laughs)
Prabhupada: Yes. You know him, this boy? He's a great-grandson of Henry Ford. He has contributed to our society not less than two crores of rupees.
Dr. Patel: He has got money.
Prabhupada: Yes. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: And Chapkhanna(?) cannot be very not good. Not very good. Your printing is wonderful. From where... Where is that place? From Japan?
Prabhupada: America and Japan. We want wonderful books.
Dr. Patel: Very good.
Indian (5): I saw that printing by (indistinct). Nobody has printed such books. And also the language
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) language (Hindi), Sanskrit into English?
Prabhupada: (Hindi) mayaya... They are very much puffed up of being educated. But Krsna says mayayapahrta-jnana.
Dr. Patel: Vedas also depict about maya. That is why naistraigunyo bhavarjuna. No? Am I right?
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: They are the old sticks?
Prabhupada: Take it away and leave here.
Dr. Patel: No, I don't want it. (laughter) This has come from South Africa?
Prabhupada: No, no. It was presented by Visalini in Vrndavana. One American girl student, she has given it. [break]
Dr. Patel: Man-mana bhava. Perpetually. It is just like an insect climbing a wall. Immediately it comes down on the ground. It takes about twenty-four hours.
Prabhupada: No, no. If you practice... Just like these boys. They are chanting "Hare Krsna," so their mind is fixed up in Krsna. Man-mana. And they can do it without any being afraid by public criticism because they are mad-bhakta. They have become bhakta. Others, they will afraid: "I am such and such person. If I chant then what the others will speak?" (laughter) But a devotee is not afraid of anyone.
Indian (6): No, sir, but body is the temple of God. Vaisnavas pray that...
Prabhupada: That everyone... Dog is also worshiping the body.
Indian (6): (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: We are just now worshiping body, sir. We are worshiping body, and we don't want to worship soul now. That is what he says.
Indian (6): Body is nothing. The soul is there. That is understood.
Prabhupada: So if you reject soul and simply worship...
Indian (6): No, soul is there.
Dr. Patel: He wants to say (Hindi) is the point. (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: (Hindi) So if you take spiritually advanced, the bodily care is already taken.
Dr. Patel: That is what I have learned. That you were saying before but then I got a postscript from one other devotee.
Prabhupada: No, no. One thing, example, that dead body. Now, when the spirit is gone, now can you take care of the dead body?
Dr. Patel: It rots.
Prabhupada: So long the spirit is there, it is all right. And as soon as the spirit is gone, it is simply lump of matter.
6: No, if you misuse it...
Prabhupada: No, no. First... This is practical. You see the importance of the body is so long, as long as there is the spirit. So if you take spiritual care, the bodily care is automatically done. Just like we are. Are we not taking bodily care? But our main business is spiritual care.
Dr. Patel: But people are starving for twenty-four, I mean forty-eight days. You cannot starve for two days because you have got weakness of the mind. Mind and soul should be one and the body... [break]
Prabhupada: ...transcend the bodily and mental platform. Then you come to the spiritual platform.
indriyani parany ahur
indriyebhyah param manah
manasas tu para buddhir
buddhes tu yah paratas tu sah
 [Bg. 3.42]
You have to come to that platform.
Dr. Patel: Evam buddhva param buddhva...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Saheb, Thakur Saheb, what he says is right. No, but because we are, we are apratijnana so we don't understand it quickly. [break]
Prabhupada: ...Kali-yuga, always chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama..., and everything will be clear. Last night Brahmananda said... [break] ...that "We are sticking to you because we know we have got something from you." Otherwise they are all rich man's sons. They are aristocratic family and industry. Why? I am not bribing them. Now this Mr. Ford has come to me. I have not bribed. He is not to be bribed. [break]
Dr. Patel: Up to three o'clock we are taking rest.
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Up to four.
Dr. Patel: If I come at four-thirty, you are there.
Prabhupada: No. At that time, I shall not be able to... You can come at five. Because after waking up I prepare. Then at five I begin. Let us meet. And Krsna says, tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. So one has to become dhira. If one remains adhira, then he'll never be able to understand the distinction between body and soul.
Dr. Patel: Dhira means buddhi.
Prabhupada: Dhira means sober. Sober, yes. Just like high-court judge. He judges everything very... [break] ...then he gives his judgment.
Indian man (7): Attention.
Prabhupada: Full attention. And attention means with good intelligence, (dog barking) not foolishly. (Hindi) That "You are not body. Why you are fighting?" Will they hear? (Hindi) That "My dear dog, you are not this body. Why you are fighting?" He will never understand. Similarly, if a man does not understand, he is no better than the dog.
Dr. Patel: suni caiva sva-pakesu panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18].
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore we like everyone. We do not reject anyone. Dog cannot understand the philosophy. Therefore we call him and give some prasadam. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: So if we take also prasadam, don't... (laughing)
Prabhupada: Therefore prasada distribution is one of our program.
Dr. Patel: For?
Prabhupada: For everyone.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) Sama-darsinah.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are not neglectful. "Because he is dog, therefore he should be neglected." No. He should be given.
Indian (8): After all, he is God's creation.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is sama-darsinah. Sama-darsinah means that every living being is part and parcel of God. So he is suffering for want of God consciousness, so let us teach something as far as possible. This is our mission. [break] ...dhiras tatra na muhyati. Therefore the human being's first business is how to become dhira.
Dr. Patel: Dhira does not exactly mean "sober," but something more than sober.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is only one part of it.
Dr. Patel: So many Sanskrit words cannot have translation into English.
Prabhupada: Dhira means one who is not disturbed by this bodily concept of life. He is dhira because he knows that "I am not this body," even there is some trouble in respect of body. So Krsna advised that titiksasva bharata.
Dr. Patel: Titiksasva.
Prabhupada: "Even there is some disturbance, tolerate it. Don't be disturbed."
Dr. Patel: Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya, sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14].
Prabhupada: Yes. So long the body is there, in connection with the skin disease, we shall be suffering in so many ways. Just like there was accident. So it does not mean that because there was accident that...
Dr. Patel: But somehow or other, you have very much improved after accident, your health.
Prabhupada: No, I was eating nicely in Africa. The climate is nice.
Indian (6): Was it?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Dr. Patel: South Africa is just like, just like, as cold as Europe.
Prabhupada: Not very cold, but it is cold. Durban. Durban.
Dr. Patel: Durban, there is a huge population of Indians, and all Gujaratis.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Somehow or other, Bengalis and Gujaratis are akin. Why they have one living in West and other in East? What must be the cause of oneness even in thought and action, in every way.
Prabhupada: Oneness means Krsna. (Hindi) (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: In temperament also. (laughs)
Prabhupada: That is also external. Real unity is on Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedanta begins, athato brahma jijnasa: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharah. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.
Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.
Prabhupada: They are put into difficulty.
Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.
Prabhupada: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, no. The Aryan race is...
Prabhupada: That is the disease, material disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has... Trnad api sunicena: "You just become..." (end)

 

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New Delhi, December 14, 1975

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Harikesa: We can see there's life in the air, there are fishes in the water and birds in the air. And in the earth there are so many worms and crabs and things like that. We see life in these forms but why is it not true that we can see life in fire? We can't see life in fire because we haven't the experience. But because there's life in...Aksayananda: If you don't have the experience, it doesn't mean there's no life.
Harikesa: Because there's life...
Prabhupada: Hm? Hm?
Aksayananda: Because we have not experienced it doesn't mean that there's no life.
Prabhupada: Yes. That I have already explained. That, you'll see in big, big factories, there is fire. Flame is coming. By seeing the flame, if you think there is no life, is that not nonsense?
Harikesa: Oh, you gave the example last night of...
Prabhupada: So many example. You go to the Tata iron factory, from distance you'll see so many fire flames. Does it mean there is no life? That is nonsense.
Aksayananda: Another point is somebody had to light the fire.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Aksayananda: Somebody must have lit that fire. So similarly the light of the sun, who has started that light?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Somebody has started that light, that fire.
Prabhupada: So in this way the nonsense scientists are going on. What do you think? Eh?
Harikesa: So this idea of friction causing electricity, so is electricity -- this electrical energy -- the source of fire? That's what the scientists think sometimes too, that the lightning bolt came down and made a fire. And that was man's first experience of fire as a caveman.
Aksayananda: So where did the lightning bolt come from?
Prabhupada: Yes. How the lightning was manufactured, rascal?
Harikesa: Well, there were some positive charges in the clouds and some negative charges in the ground.
Prabhupada: That's alright. Who made that positive charge and negative charge?
Aksayananda: So let them manufacture lightning bolts in the Tata factory.
Prabhupada: How the electricity is produced unless there is some arrangement? Just put counter-argument and argument, try to understand. You have to preach. So your argument stopped?
Harikesa: I don't know anything about this. (laughter)
Prabhupada: You cannot... Your malador masjid(?). Arguments are there, so whether there is life in the sun globe?
Indian man: (Hindi -- discussion with Srila Prabhupada and other Indian men about sastra, scientists, agni, and the example of the iron factory)
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Devotees: Hare Krsna!
Harikesa: But the fire and the life is different in the Tata factory.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: The fire is different from the life. The fire is produced.
Prabhupada: The fire is the same. There is fire. Fire is the same. In the life the fire is not different.
Harikesa: No, what I mean to say in the example, that the people are there and the fire is also there...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Harikesa: So, in a...
Prabhupada: Exactly the same way. In the factory there is big fire and there are workers also.
Harikesa: But the life is the workers not the fire.
Prabhupada: No. I mean to say, in the midst of fire, the living entity can live. That is my argument.
Aksayananda: But they can't jump in the fire and live. They will die.
Prabhupada: No. That is material body. Spiritual... In the Bhagavad-gita there is, (it says that) it does not burn into fire, in the fire. Adahyah, adahyah. So living entity is never burnt. Even if he's in the fire. So he may have a body of fire but he does not burn.
Aksayananda: But why should we accept that, because to make our factory we did not need Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Aksayananda: To make our factory we did not need Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Aksayananda: To make the factory... We have made such a nice factory for fire, so we did not need to consult Bhagavad-gita for that.
Prabhupada: I do not follow what he is saying.
Harikesa: He's saying he built a factory but he didn't use Bhagavad-gita to do it.
Prabhupada: So who says that without Bhagavad-gita you cannot ignite fire?
Aksayananda: So why should we accept that the living entity will not die.
Prabhupada: Oh, that is authority. If you do not accept, then this is the example, argument. That the factory surrounded by fire, it does not mean there is no life. From distance, you are seeing the sun from a very, very, 95 or 93 million miles away. Fiery it is undoubtedly, but it is exactly like that: that you see from a distant place, the iron factory, it is simply fiery. Your experience is from distance. You have not gone there. So the distance experience is like this, that you see there is fire, big fire, but still there are life. You have to accept this argument.
Harikesa: Actually it is perfectly reasonable.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: In the fire there's fiery bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: But then that must mean in the water there's watery bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: And earth, earthy bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is God's creation. Take, take out one fish, within five minutes, he'll die. And you put yourself in the water, within five minutes you will die. But you are living entity, he is also living entity. His external body is different, your external body is different.
Harikesa: But my body is ninety percent water.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: My body is ninety per cent water. The scientists say that this material body is ninety percent water.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Human body. So I've got a watery body...
Prabhupada: Ninety percent water?
Harikesa: That's what they say.
Prabhupada: They say. They are rascals. (laughter) So much bones and flesh and so many things, others. And ninety percent water.
Harikesa: Well, they take a cell and they say in the cell...
Prabhupada: "They take," they... Don't quote them, they are all rascals. You come to your own reason. They say, then you accept them as authority. Then why don't you accept authority of Bhagavad-gita, rascal? You are quoting some rascals and fools, and I am quoting from Bhagavad-gita. Then whose quotation is favorable? "They say." And when we say, "Krsna says," that is nothing! Just see, how foolish. "They say." These rascals, meat eaters, huh? Bachelor daddies, (laughter) they say something, that is authority. And (if) Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead says, (then) "Oh, that we cannot accept." Just see nonsense. That I... This argument I put forward with Professor Kotovsky that, "After all, we have to follow leader. So your leader is Lenin. And my leader is Krsna. So where is the difference between the process? You have to accept some authority. Now it is to be seen whether Lenin is perfect or Krsna is perfect. That is another thing, but you have to follow some authority. So you are stopped."
Harikesa: But in science...
Prabhupada: Again science.
Harikesa: No, as far as the process goes, they are very proud of the fact that there's no authority.
Prabhupada: But why you are following? Why you are quoting Newton? You are quoting this scientist, that scientist, why you are quoting?
Harikesa: Well, Newton sat there, and saw the apple falling... Prabhupada: If you don't follow authority, then why you quote so many previous scientists? What is the use of quoting if there is no authority?
Harikesa: But the trend is, because Newton speculated the law of gravity...
Prabhupada: No, no, first of all you settle up. Don't go away from the point. (laughter) The point is that there is no need of authority. Then why you quote this scientist, that scientist? You stop this nonsense. There is no authority. Hm?
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Hamsaduta?
Hamsaduta: Hm.
Prabhupada: If there is no authority, why do you quote so many rascals? Then come to reason, argument, that's all. If you quote authority, I have got my authority.
Harikesa: So this fire... That makes sense.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Harikesa: This fire, it makes sense. That there's life in fire.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is argument. When you do not accept authority, there must be reason and argument.
Harikesa: But this ether thing is very troublesome.
Prabhupada: Troublesome for you! (laughter)
Harikesa: Yes. You said sound is in the ether.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: But I couldn't understand how air...
Prabhupada: You have to gain that intelligence.
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Sound is the proof that there is ether. Sabda. Now, I am talking, you are hearing. How you are hearing? Ethereal transportation. Otherwise how you can hear? I am talking here, and why you are hearing? This is ethereal. The sound is being produced, somehow or other the ether is passing, just (like) tele... What is called? Radio.
Harikesa: They heard, people on the earth, talking on the moon.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: So it went through the air, it went through the space, sounds.
Prabhupada: The moon (astronaut) says that "There is no life." Then who is speaking? Nonsense. (laughter) They talk in the moon, and they hear from here, and "There is no life." And we have to take these authorities. (laughter)
Aksayananda: I remember once you said that we may not live in the water but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a fish.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: So that is also a very good argument. I remember you gave that one.
Harikesa: So the air is coming from the ether, so...
Prabhupada: Because in the air there is sound. Therefore ether is there. It is a production of the ether.
Harikesa: So would it be beneficial to try to understand the process of production? Like the example of the earth coming from the water. Because the water evaporates, there is left over minerals and salts and all these things...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: And the fire producing the water from excess heat. Like in the summer season and then the monsoon comes. And fire from air, from the friction generating electric current. But the air from the ether needs an example.
Prabhupada: Air from the ether because when the air blows, you find the sound, sshhhh. That is ether.
Hari-sauri: Yeah, like some...
Harikesa: But the example's got to go the other way. From the ether comes the air.
Prabhupada: That you found out, example. But this is the proof there is ether within the air. That example is given many times in Bhagavad-gita.
Passerby: Haribol!
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna!
Hamsaduta: Does it mean beyond the ether there's no sound?
Prabhupada: Beyond the ether there is mind, there is mind.
Hamsaduta: There's no sound?
Prabhupada: No, what is the sound of the mind? Everyone knows you have mind, I have mind, but where is the sound of the mind?
Harikesa: There's subtle and the gross has no realm in the subtle?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is finer.
Harikesa: So is that example of the space, then the thinner air, and the air, and the water, and the earth, and in between electricity...
Prabhupada: The grosser, grosser...
Harikesa: Is that a good example?
Prabhupada: Everything is coming from the subtle form, finer. Finer than the ether is the mind, and finer than the mind is intelligence.
Harikesa: Oh, and in the Bhagavatam it also says that because the universal form desired to hear, that sound was created and then the organ for hearing. Like that.
Prabhupada: That is also created.
Harikesa: So...
Prabhupada: Just like from ether, sound is created. Sabda, sparsa. Sabda, sparsa, rupa, rasa, gandhah, these are the five parmatra (?), object of sense perception. Budh, panca parmatra, ten senses, the mind, and three modes, the material nature. This is the ingredient of the whole creation.
Harikesa: So the basic element is the soul's...
Prabhupada: Basic element is Krsna.
Harikesa: And then the spirit soul's desire.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: And Krsna fulfills everyone's desire.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: By manipulating the energy.
Harikesa: So the most subtle form...
Prabhupada: He is also... The living entity is creating different body for different enjoyment.
Hamsaduta: The living entity?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: But he can't do it without Krsna.
Prabhupada: That is, he is subordinate.
Hamsaduta: Just like our hair grows, but we don't know how it's happening.
Prabhupada: It is sanctioned. Mattah sarvam pravartate. Everything from Krsna.
Harikesa: Is the most subtle form of creation the desire of the living entity to enjoy this material world?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: And then Krsna...
Prabhupada: Supplies ingredients. Yes.
Harikesa: So that desire, that is equivalent, or is that the...
Prabhupada: A child wants to play, and the father and mother gives the toys for that play. So without getting help from the father and mother, the child cannot enjoy. Similarly, we may desire but unless Krsna helps us we cannot fulfill our desire.
Harikesa: Is desire a function of consciousness?
Prabhupada: Yes. Unless there is desire, how it is living? It is dead body. Stone, stone has no desire.
Harikesa: The spirit soul is...
Prabhupada: Therefore, spirit soul is described as superior energy. He desires and he manipulates the matter. Yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5].
Harikesa: It's very logical, step by step by step by step. Actually when it's seen from the point of view of the desire of the living entity, it makes perfect sense because he's got these senses and the sound, and then in order to hear, there has to be a vehicle for the sound, and then there has to be an instrument. And then in order to touch there has to be the vehicle and the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: So therefore, from that point of view, it's very logical.
Prabhupada: This is the point, you have to...
Harikesa: Trying to do it the other way is impossible. From the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Empirical process?
Devotee: I don't know if that's the right word.
Harikesa: Inductive reasoning? Deductive reasoning. Impossible.
Prabhupada: Deductive reason is possible. Krsna says that na jayate na mriyate va. This is deductive: you hear from Krsna, and this is fact. And if you want to make research, how that living entity never takes birth, then it will take time and at the same it may not be perfect.
Harikesa: I finally understood why you were always talking to Svarupa Damodara about inductive and deductive reasoning.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Because it's just not possible to go the other way.
Prabhupada: By inductive reason you cannot reach the truth perfectly.
Harikesa: Because it's beyond the material creation and you have to use the material senses and mind to understand. It's not possible.
Prabhupada: Therefore, our point is deductive. What Krsna says, that is perfect.
Harikesa: So first prove the existence of God and the existence of the spirit soul...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: ...and then, they'll just have to explain...
Prabhupada: And then it's creation.
Harikesa: And that it's creation. They'll just have to accept they have desires.
Prabhupada: Aham evasam evagre. This is the Bhagavata's first instruction to Brahma. Aham evasam agre. Agre means in the beginning. So in the beginning Krsna was there, then creation took place. Similarly in the beginning of this body, "I am spirit soul," was there. Then the body comes out. Similarly, Krsna is there, therefore the whole cosmic manifestation has come about. Aham evasam agre. And at the end of the creation, Krsna is there. Similarly at the end of this body, I am there. Again I'll create another body. This is going on.
Harikesa: It's Krsna's trick just to give us this facility.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: This is Krsna's trick just to give us facility.
Prabhupada: And because I wanted it. Krsna doesn't want it. But because you are rascals we wanted it. Krsna (says,) "Alright, do it."
Harikesa: So therefore, in the beginning Krsna gives you the big post, Brahma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Now you're in charge of creating a whole universe.
Prabhupada: Yes. If you want lord it over, "Alright you become Brahma." He gives so much facility.
Harikesa: And then this Brahma creates so many different desires, and then he goes through all the different bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Everyone becomes Brahma first?
Prabhupada: Hm? Yes. Or if you want to be a cat you can become.
Harikesa: How can they say this isn't science? This is so incredible.
Prabhupada: Desire is there. Desire is there. Just like in your country, the nudism going on. The desire is, "Ah, I shall remain free, naked." So Krsna is giving you facility, "Alright, you stand here for thousands of years as tree, naked, nobody will criticize. You want to remain naked on the public street and you want to enjoy in that way, alright you become tree."
Harikesa: Because desire is a function of consciousness, which is a symptom of the spirit soul, it's very powerful.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Because it's spiritual actually.
Prabhupada: Therefore it is said, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Abhilas means desire. Anya means "except service of Krsna." That is beginning of bhakti. As soon as he desires something material for enjoyment he has to come to Me. Manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. The mind and the senses; with these things he is struggling for existence. Otherwise he is part and parcel of Krs..., mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loka sanatana [Bg. 15.7]. He is eternal but because he is influenced by the mind, desires, and the senses, sense enjoyment, he is struggling. This is it, a struggle. So when he is too much fatigued, Krsna comes and gives you good counsel. "You rascal give up these all desires. Surrender to Me, I give you protection." But he'll not do that. And if he agrees then anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11], all material desires, zero. Then bhakti begins. And if you have got a little pinch of material desires, then you have to accept different types of body. It will create, naturally. Karanam guna-sango 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. He is desiring under the influence of particular modes of nature, and he's getting body.
Harikesa: One has to be very careful.
Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bharata Maharaja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature's law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization. The same example. The animal has got freedom and you'll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetables and eats, but he's not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without, then you'll go to the court. So therefore, law is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Those who want to be free, they are animals. So-called freedom means animalism. That is not humanism. Humanism means to follow the rules and regulations and the laws, and then he is human being. Because law is meant for the human being, not for the animals. And when you come out from your home, immediately the law is keep to the right. And if you violate, immediately you go to the law. But a dog, he doesn't care. If you say, "A dog does not obey this law," that is no excuse. You are human being. If you don't obey then you go to jail. So many animals are on the street naked, they're having sex life, naked. You do, immediately you'll be prosecuted. Why? Because you are a human being. You have to restrain. Even if you like. Just like the Hawaii University students, "What is the wrong to become a dog?" So if you think like that then you become a dog, nature is ready to give you a dog's body. That is (Sanskrit). He's thinking, "The dog's life is very nice. This liberation of sex life on the street." "Alright, you take dog's body." Yam yam va... Bhavam... ah, what is that?
Harikesa: Smaran bhavam.
Prabhupada: Ha. Tyajanty ante kalevaram.
Caitya-guru: Tam tam evaiti kaunteya.
Prabhupada: Ha. "So you are thinking like dog, alright you take the body of a dog." And finished. Your human life is finished. And again wait for millions of years to come to the human form of life. Nature's law you cannot check. Daivi hi esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. The law is there. The same example, if you contaminate some disease, the law is you must suffer from that disease. So they are thinking "free." That is their gross ignorance.
Hari-sauri: It's very important then to accept some tapasya.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hari-sauri: It's very important to accept some tapasya to purify your desires.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, that is, that requires tapasya. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Tapasya means to purify the desire. Tat paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Therefore if you simply keep your desires to the service of Krsna, you become purified.
Passerby: (singing) Govinda hari, gopala. Harer jaya jaya, prabhu dina dayala hari.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna!
Passerby: (carries on singing on his way) Govinda jaya, gopala jaya...
Prabhupada: This declaration of freedom is animal. Animal freedom.
Passerby: Hare Krsna, Hare Rama.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna! Thank you. They are struggling for false freedom. This is not freedom. This is becoming entangled. And when we voluntarily give up all freedom, "This is all nonsense! Krsna, I surrender unto you." Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan [Bg. 7.19], then he's really wise. When he fully surrenders to Krsna.
Caitya-guru: Then he knows, Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19].
Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise how he'll surrender. He must be convinced that Krsna is everything, so let me surrender to Krsna. Then he is wise. Otherwise he is an animal.
Harikesa: A really wise person could understand that there's no choice but to surrender.
Prabhupada: Yes. He must. He is already under the control.
Harikesa: He's always controlled at every moment.
Prabhupada: Yes. But he's... He prefers to be controlled by the laws of nature instead of by Krsna. That is his misfortune. He is controlled, but he thinks, "I am free." That is ignorance. Mudha. Just like I am the state citizen. I am not free. I must work according to the state laws. But he (thinks), "I shall... I don't care for government." That is my foolishness. You have to care. At home I can say to my wife, "I don't care for government, I don't care for the police." But when there is crime, when the police comes, then he says "Ohh." (pulls a sad face-laughter) He can be very much proud before his wife, "I don't care for anything." But when the police comes, "What can I do?" (Hindi) There is an example that the, what is called, murgi? What you call? Toast? No. Host? No. What is called? Murgi, murgi? Chicken? The male, male?
Aksayananda: Rooster.
Hamsaduta: Rooster.
Prabhupada: Rooster?
Woman: Cock?
Prabhupada: Yes. So the, when in the morning, it is let loose, then he says, "I don't care for any hahaa, cawcaw." Then in the evening, when they are pushed into the, that what is called? Nest? "Cawcawcawcaw. Whatever you like you can do, whatever you like you can do." (laughter) This is the example. You see? When he's under the arrest, "Now sir, whatever you like, you do with me. If you like you can excuse me." (laughter) And when he's out, "I don't care for anyone." Murgi intelligence. Rooster intelligence. This is our proposal. "I don't care for anyone. I am God." Murgi logic. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano rathenasati dhavato bahih [SB 5.18.12], if one is not a devotee, his only business is to remain on the mental platform and concoct things. And at the end he thinks that "I am God." Concoction. Therefore it is said in the sastra, harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. One who is not a devotee, he has no good qualification. He is simply on the, hovering on the mental platform.
Hari-sauri: The sixteenth chapter describes it very nicely...
Prabhupada: Yes. Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca, na vidur asurah [Bg. 16.7]. In which way we have direct out activities, in which way we shall have to stop our activities: they do not know. Asurah jana. Because they don't take direction from God. They make their own way of speculation. So therefore, they are animals, or demons. Because they do not take direction during life, therefore at the end Krsna comes, mrtyuh sarva-haras caham [Bg. 10.34]. All mental speculation, creation, is taken away at death. (to passerby:) Hare Krsna! It is said, krsna nama koro vai ar sabe miche palaiba patha nai yama ache piche: take to Krsna consciousness, don't try to escape. Because behind you there is Yamaraja! (laughs) He will finish your all concoction. Hare Krsna! (end)
Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi
751214mw.del
Morning Walk
 --
December 14, 1975, New Delhi
Prabhupada: Who is giving the tree food, huh? (Hindi) What is the answer? Who gives them food?
Tejas: Krsna is giving.
Prabhupada: But these rascals they cannot understand. They are making economic development. They have no program for economic development. How they're eating?
Harikesa: Well, they're not in very good shape either. I mean they have to stand...
Prabhupada: But you are also in not very good shape.
Harikesa: But I can put on a coat. They're standing out in the cold.
Prabhupada: (laughing) In your country nobody likes white, they have begun to tan. So you are not (in) good shape in consideration of ladies. (chuckling) How you can say that it is not in good shape? It has got another lady to appreciate. You may not appreciate. One man, lady, may not appreciate your beauty but that does not mean you are not beautiful.
Caitya-guru: It says ulu.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Caitya-guru: Name of that tree.
Devotee: Ulu.
Harikesa: Sometimes the trees just die because there's not sufficient . . .
Prabhupada: No, no. That is not the standard that you do not like somebody, therefore he is not liked by others. That is not very good argument. That is applicable everywhere. The point is that it is a living entity, it so stout and strong, who is giving him food? That is the point.
Harikesa: Well, my argument was sometimes he's not being supplied the proper way so therefore economic development is necessary.
Prabhupada: Alright. That is your... Out of 8,400,000 forms of life, the economic development is taken, a few only. Why others they're developing without any economy? There are so many other living entities
Harikesa: Well for example, the bees or the ants, they're, the bees are making hives.
Prabhupada: They are also.
Harikesa: They are developing a big bee-hive.
Prabhupada: No, no, that is collection of food. The trees also do that. They are called pada-pa. Pada-pa means they drink water by the legs. You drink water by the mouth and they drink water by the legs. Pada-pa. Just like the, what is called? Bats. They pass stool through the mouth. Is it not? You do not know this? Yes. (laughter) You'll find the bats, they are hanging down the head, and they're passing stool. Sometimes man also does so, when there is strangulation. That is very dangerous disease. What is called? Intestine strangulation. Then passing stool through the mouth. In Bengal sometimes they curse, "You'll pass stool through the mouth!" Yes, sometimes they do. Sometimes they eat through the rectum. Do you know that?
Hamsaduta: No.
Prabhupada: Yes. They inject glucose through the rectum. There are many varieties of life. That is the fault of the modern rascals. They want to compare with himself, everything. They do not know that in the God's kingdom there are varieties of life. Otherwise why the 8,400,000? There are varieties. What these rascals know about these varieties? Atmavat manyate jagat. They think, "Everyone should be like me." (sound of crows in background) Now these birds, within a second, goes hundred feet high. You cannot do. This is variety.
Harikesa: But the bird is always looking for food.
Prabhupada: Everyone is looking, that is another thing. But food is there. He has no arrangement for making industry. (to passer-by) Hare Krsna! He has no arrangement for making industry.
Harikesa: Yes, that's why he always has to...
Prabhupada: Their food is there, he is simply searching out, that's all.
Harikesa: So if we economically develop, we don't even have to search out...
Prabhupada: No, no, you are opening factories. They are not opening factories. Nature's food is already there. And "Be satisfied, take this." That's all. That much endeavour is required. That is material world.
Harikesa: So in other words he has to look for food, but man has to make a factory in order to look for food...
Prabhupada: No, he hasn't got to make factory. He has got also food but he... If he does, he is claiming to be more civilized. He has complicated his activities by opening factories. That's all. He has got also food. Let everyone remain in nature's... You take fruit from the trees and drink milk, you are also sufficient. You don't require to cook even. There are fruits. Formerly all the sages they were taking fruits from the trees, and milk from the cows. That's all. They did not even produce food. Like agriculture. No. Whatever nature is supplying, that's all. But you are killing the cows, eating the meat, and producing no food and and making things, complicated. This is your civilization. (a car accelerates past)
Harikesa: It's a lot of fun to drive fast cars and have sex and see movies and... This is fun you know. It's the only way to enjoy!
Prabhupada: Yes. Enjoyment is there in the cats and dogs. When you enjoy sex in palace and the dog enjoys sex on the street, the value is the same. The taste does not increase or decrease. But you are thinking to enjoy sex in big palace is advancement. That is your foolishness. Actually sex enjoyment in the palace or on the street is the same. It has no difference of taste.
Harikesa: So then we can have sex on the street.
Prabhupada: Yes. You are going to have that, next life! (laughter) Because you are desiring, you will get this life. Krsna will fulfill your desire. Ye yatha mam prapadyante maya... [Bg. 4.11]. Yantrarudhani mayaya. Krsna is within you. You are thinking that I will be very much happy if I enjoy sex like the dog. Krsna notes, and next life, "My dear friend here is the body. You enter and enjoy." Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese... [Bg. 18.61]. He is noting down your desire. Hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati. Mayaya brahmayan sarva-bhutani, yantrarudhani mayaya. This is clearly explained. Alright, you want the enjoyment like dog, here is. Remembrance is also there. Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. You wanted to enjoy sex like a dog. Now I have given you this body, now you enjoy. Everything is there, arranged.
Harikesa: Yes, but dogs they have to lead a pretty miserable life.
Prabhupada: But you have also, you have got, not living very happy life, this human society. There are others, even Indira Gandhi, she's always disturbed. Who is happy here? I saw personally. Oh, she is so disturbed. Everyone is unhappy. Who is happy here?
Harikesa: I mean, you say that to anybody in America, they'll go, "I'm happy."
Prabhupada: Everyone is unhappy, America, India, god or beast everyone is unhappy. Ahara-nidra-bhaya, bhaya means fearfulness. That is unhappiness. Everyone is afraid what will happen next. This is unhappiness. So either you be Indira Gandhi or a street dog, that is nature's law. Nobody is happy. That they cannot understand that there is no happiness, and he's trying to make development for happiness. Actually there is no happiness. This is struggle for existence. Manah-sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7], with the mind and the senses he's trying for happiness, but there is no happiness. That is called illusion. That is called illusion. There is no happiness and he's trying to get happiness. Happiness is beyond the senses, material senses. Sukham atyantikam yat tad atindriyam grahyam [Bg. 6.21], if you want real happiness that is transcendental happiness, not this sense happiness.
Harikesa: But there is happiness of the senses. When you have sex life...
Prabhupada: When... Happiness there is, not for the rascals, but for the intelligent. Happiness there is. Unless there is happiness, how we are seeking for happiness? Unless there is immortality, how we are seeking for immortality? There is. But the way in which you are seeking for these things, that is wrong. That is the whole education. Maya muni sthitah. Just like a foolish animal, he is seeking water from the desert because it appears there is water. But that is his foolishness. A human being he knows that there is no water, it is all sand. That is the difference between animal and human being. Therefore if the dog sees another, what is called? He makes a dog in the water, and he thinks another dog carrying a bread and he wants to take it away, so his bread goes away
Harikesa: That's a perfect example.
Prabhupada: He loses his own bread and there is no other bread. That's all. (Sanskrit) The lion he thought there is another lion within the well, and jumped over it. He lost his life, that's all. This going on. So, he's so strong, lion, it is fabulously strong, but he's animal. In spite of so much strength, he's an animal. Similarly this modern civilization, in spite of so much so-called advancement, they are simply animals. That's all. A big animal is eulogized by another small animal, that's all. Animal is animal, big animal or small. (pointing out on the road) Just see he hasn't got master, and what is his condition?
Harikesa: Pretty bad.
Prabhupada: This is sudra. If anyone depends on the master's mercy, he's a sudra. Here in New Delhi, these big, big buildings, big, big officers, as soon as the government will fail, they will be street dogs, that's all. Now they are plundering, by official instrument. Now when the government will be finished, they will be street dog. That's all. This is your civilization. Immediately if all of a sudden there is attack in New Delhi, all the people will starve. There is no food at all, and they'll die.
Harikesa: That's a really important point that the government takes more and more, and everybody gets poorer and poorer.
Prabhupada: Yes. The government is also poor because they do not know how to govern. Buddhi yasya balam tasya. If one has got intelligence he has got strength.
Harikesa: Change of government means getting poorer.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: A change of government...
Prabhupada: Change of government... Just like they say, a change of theories by the rascals. Change means rascal.
Harikesa: But as soon as a government changes...
Prabhupada: Anything change means it is the domain of rascals, pandemonium. Just like in Manu-samhita it is said that, nasyam svatantratam arhati, women should not be given independence. Once said, that is fact. If you want to change, you suffer. That's all.
Hari-sauri: Any deviation from absolute law means immediately suffering.
Prabhupada: Bas, immediately you have to suffer. (reads sign on building) DTS, what is this?
Hamsaduta: German Democratic Republic. German diplomat.
Prabhupada: German Embassy?
Tejas: This is going to be the Punjab Bhavan. For the Punjab state government.
Harikesa: You're painting a pretty bleak picture.
Prabhupada: Paint picture?
Harikesa: The one you're painting of society, and the future.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: There's no hope.
Prabhupada: No. Unless they take to Krsna consciousness, there is no hope, that's a fact. There will be more chaotic condition and everyone will suffer and perish. Achinna-dara-dravina gacchanti giri-kananam. This is already predcited. I am not painting. It is already there, I am simply repeating. That's all. I am not speculator.
Hari-sauri: Actually most of them are aware that they're in a very bad position. Everybody is expecting another war.
Prabhupada: Yes, just see. This is capitol of India. This is the position. We can know, understand.
Harikesa: The problem is in America, it all looks so nice.
Prabhupada: That means they are not yet so poverty-stricken.
Harikesa: You ask anyone, tell anyone this in America, they'll go, "Oh well we've had difficult times in the past, but we've always pulled out of it." Like the Depression. They always quote the Depression of the thirties. The Depression and they say then there was the war and everything became better.
Prabhupada: Then what is the academy? Nonsense. They are spending so much money in this kala-kendra, academy, this, that. And no place for Krsna consciousness. Just see. Such a cultural book of knowledge. There is no such institution, Gita instruction, institute. No. This kala bhavan, this kendra bhavan this... They have got so many dance bhavan, and when Krsna dances with the gopis, "Ah, that is bad!" The rascals, they do not understand where you have got this tendency for dancing. Because it is there in Krsna. That they do not understand. Krsna dancing is bad, and my dancing is very good. They will put so many questions, "Why Krsna dance with others' wives." "And why your are dancing with others wife, fall-down." Just see. Krsna's dancing is mythology and his dancing is fact. Although His life is mythology (indistinct). (laughter) (indistinct) Rabindra Bhavan. What they are doing? Such a big house.
Devotee: Aravindra Bhavan
Prabhupada: Hm? This is Aurobindo?
Tejas: This is Ravindra Bhavan.
Prabhupada: What is written there? Ravindra. Ravindra's Gate. Ravindra's gate is, how to enjoy illicit sex. This is his gate. He introduced magha-mela, inviting young boys and girls to dance together. And taking this opportunity, he was enjoying young girls. That was his purpose. They would come, the young girls would come, Ravindra (Bengali), grandfather, and he'll, "Alright you sit down on my lap." That's all. This is Ravindra Bhavan, to become debauch. And if you teach young man debauchery, he can attract millions. There is no doubt of it. The pride(?) philosophy. Hm? Debauchery. Allow sex without any discrimination. (observes passing hand drawn cart) Economic development. Where is economic development for these men? There, when there was no economic development, the same taila and poor people with black cloth was there, and now the same thing is still there, so where is development?
Tejas: It's increasing actually.
Prabhupada: Nature's law you cannot check. It must go on. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. Bhagavata says, "Don't try to improve all these things, it is not possible. Improve your Krsna consciousness. That will be benefit for your life." (sees another sign) Sangeet (indistinct). Means you can dance. And when our men dance, what do they call? Crazy, crazy. (reads signs) Sri Rama. Sri Rama for art and culture. So arrange dancing in this Sangeet dance, here. (laughter) They'll not allow? Hm?
Hamsaduta: Their idea of dancing is different to...
Prabhupada: No, you, you sell tickets for ten rupees, then they'll (indistinct). If you make free then they'll...
Caitya-guru: International dance.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why don't you try? Just see. I think they allow dancing by renting the halls, no? What is that?
Tejas: Which one? That Kamani Hall?
Prabhupada: Any one. This one.
Tejas: They have performances.
Prabhupada: But they sell tickets. So similar way, why not ours? [break] Enquire from the authority that we want to hold festival, dance and chant. And singing, don't say chant. See if you can dance, for one week. So what will be the terms. Enquire.
Tejas: The Supra House, I enquired before, so they want about five or six hundred rupees per day.
Prabhupada: So that's alright! Five, six hundred, suppose if we continue for one week, they may reduce. Hm? Even five hundred, then we pay one week about 3,500, so why that LA... What is that?
Tejas: LIC grounds.
Prabhupada: Hm. That is 50,000, 60,000.
Tejas: There is one big Vijnana Bhavan. Three thousand people can sit there. Should I organize like that?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Tejas: For when the devotees come.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tejas: It is better than Ram lila grounds. We'll get the educated and sophisticated people.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tejas: Not just the Old Delhi people.
Prabhupada: Yes. And...
Tejas: And we can make very good... In the newspaper, if we get, then we'll get... We can sell the tickets also.
Prabhupada: Yes, you attend all these Kala Bhavan. Utilize like that way. You will have always engagement. This our chanting, dancing, prasada distribution. And they will pay also. We'll sell books. Why don't you take advantage of this institution? It requires organisation, that's all. Why LIC grounds, so much money? Three thousand daily and 40,000 monthly and so on.
Tejas: So much endeavor also.
Prabhupada: And so much endeavor.
Tejas: This Vijnana Bhavan we can get, it's very nice.
Prabhupada: So do it! Am I right or not?
Hari-sauri: Programs like that would work very successfully in the west also.
Prabhupada: Yes. And what is three thousand, four thousand? You get two members and it is...
Tejas: No. People will contribute. No problem.
Prabhupada: Yes. Do it immediately.
Tejas: Should I make that for March?
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Why March? Immediately! Try for immediately. Every week there must be some festival. Hm. In that way you don't require a very gigantic house. We can live anywhere, but our propagation will go on. [break] So many bhavans and so many institutions, utilise them. And there will be concession, if we take for one week, two weeks. They will give concession. Sometimes they may give free also. When they understand this is nice movement. [break]
Devotee: ...is starting to sell, to make more money. It's not very big (indistinct).
Prabhupada: No. He has done a mistake so he wants to rectify it. He wants to bring money, (chuckles) but if the money is lost, it is lost, let him come back. What is there? A life saved is more important than save the money. So if I could know the address... (to passerby) Hare Krsna! Then I could write.
Bhagavata: Well, we can... Revatinandana, I think is staying in the, by Los Angeles, right near San Diego. San Diego or... I thinks it's San Diego or that other one, Laguna Beach.
Prabhupada: So I wanted to write him a letter.
Bhagavata: Revatinandana might be able to give you the address.
Prabhupada: (greets a man in Hindi) Jaya! Ha. Vrndavana hogya. No, if you know Revatinandana's address, he can forward.
Devotee: Yes, he can forward.
Harikesa: Syamasundara told me that he wanted to make millions of dollars for you so that he could...
Prabhupada: Yes. (chuckles) And I am thinking when making millions of dollars, he may not be lost. (to passerby) Hare Krsna, Jaya! [ ...millions of dollars, I shall do. I have got money. I want one soul saved, that is more than millions of dollars. [break]
Bhagavata: (describing Mayapur) All the devotees, some devotees, they live in the main building, and some devotees they work on the weaving, and some devotees work in agriculture, some devotees work in the gosala. They make competition, that "Who will come to the mangala-arati first, early." Now they are coming one hour before mangala-arati. They're in a competition, and the ones who dance through the arati, throught the entire arati without stopping, the ones that come early, they get this stamp, Krsna stamp. You get twenty stamps, you get one plate of maha-prasadam. You get thirty stamps, forty stamps... You get one thousand stamps, you can go to Vrndavana for darsana. You get two thousand stamps you can go for opening ceremony in Bombay. Like this he is making program. Everyone is working very hard to come to the mangala-arati first, to chant the..., and to dance. Everyone is working very hard. He has increased the enthusiasm.
Prabhupada: These are all a school building? Hm? They're extended.
Tejas: Yes.
Devotee: It's a school.
Tejas: They have also opened a new school. Besides this they have opened another college.
Prabhupada: Where?
Tejas: Some place in south Delhi.
Prabhupada: Oh. (end)

 

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