From Frying Pan To The Fire

Hyderabad, September 29, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...mandah, all bad men. Manda sumanda-matayah. And if he is supposed to be a good man, he will manufacture some mata, manda-mata, not approved by the sastras. This is going on. They will not hear Krsna. They will give quotation from Brahma-kumari. This is the greatest defect of modern civilization, that they won't accept real authority. They will create some authority. Or rascal, he becomes authority. Especially in India, this is the drawback. In the Western countries they do not know much about this. Therefore they accept what I say. But here they bring so many. So such an important man, he is bringing authority, Brahma-kumari, a house of prostitution. If he is bringing their quotation as authority, then what to speak of others? [break] Just like that Christian convent house. They supply woman to rich men, and they supply money. That's all. This is Brahma-kumari. Rich man, the same disease is there -- yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. So if they get facility for some maithuna, they will give you money. (Hindi) ...prostitute, for convent house. Hm? Brahmananda? Convent house? What is that convent house? It is not prostitution? That's all.Brahmananda: Usually it's between the priests and the nuns.
Prabhupada: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunadi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's asrama failed? Do you know that? This is... When Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You did not know that?
Kartikeya: No, we imagined, but we don't have information.
Prabhupada: That what... Gandhi said, "What is this asrama?"
Indian man (1): No, but Gandhi... He is well known, very well known.
Prabhupada: He is well known.
Indian man (1): Including mother Desai and all, there were lot of complaints and countercomplaints.
Prabhupada: Yes. It cannot be. You cannot stop the sex unless you are fully in Krsna consciousness. It is not possible. And that is the material bondage. In the material prisonhouse they have got so many means-big, big walls, handcuff, chain -- but nature is so perfect that simply give you a beautiful woman, and you are all prisoner. Big wall, handcuff and chain -- everything is complete. I think I have discussed in my recent purports.
Harikesa: Oh, yes, yes.
Indian man (2): Even in case of mother Desai, it was a classic incident, that his wife came one day to Gandhiji, that "This man is your personal writer but he is going on with another woman in your camp."
Prabhupada: There are so many.
Indian man (2): "And he comes only because of that woman. Otherwise he is not willing to be your personal writer. So I have complained." Then Gandhiji said, "All right, when did you know it?" So she said, "I was thinking for the three months, but fifteen days before I came." "All right, Mahadeva, you come here. You will fast for fifteen days." And one week later (indistinct) Mahadeva Desai was that he wanted food very badly. So after seven days he was about to die. Then that woman, wife, came again, "Maharaja I made a mistake. I made a complaint. All right. But now this man will die and where I will go?" (indistinct) "Then why have you made a complaint? So you can take off for seven days but you fast for seven days." So he is relieved.
Prabhupada: One -- there are so many cases. This Lilavati Munshi, this is the same thing. You know that? There is a big history behind this.
Kartikeya: The failures are due to some basic reason. All the big people have failed, and they have not been able to deliver the country or anything because their moral character...
Prabhupada: No, no, even they have delivered the country, these physical elements you cannot avoid. You cannot avoid unless you are on the transcendental platform, Krsna consciousness. So long you are on the physical platform, you cannot avoid. It is impossible. (Hindi) Gandhiji... (Hindi)... mistake. (Hindi) "And physical? Oh, you have done this? Fifteen days fasting."
Indian man (1): What is alternative? What do you do when...
Prabhupada: No, no, alternative, that alternative will not correct. That is the defect of Gandhi's movement. He is supposed to be reading Bhagavad-gita, but he has never said, recommended, Krsna worship. That is the defect of his education. Rather, he denied the existence of Krsna. "I don't believe if any person as Krsna ever lived." This is his concept. Gandhi has written in his life that while his father was dying he was enjoying sex with his wife. You know that?
Indian man (2): Gandhiji?
Prabhupada: Yes, he has written it.
Indian man (1): It is, after all, only...
Prabhupada: No, no. After, he became a great sage. That is all right. But in the beginning everyone is subjected. Which way we shall...
Kartikeya: We can go straight.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Brahmananda, you just take an idea. We shall construct Gurukula in this pattern.
Brahmananda: This building here, double story.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Double or three-storied.
Kartikeya: Most simple type.
Prabhupada: Very simple type, very nice. Just get a sketch with your work. This will be done like that.
Brahmananda: I'll ask Bhargava. He has his camera. He can take photographs.
Prabhupada: Yes. And downstairs, all shops. Only the roadside. Other side...
Brahmananda: Oh, no. That's the courtyard, and then other side, a building. [break]
Bhavananda: ...at the Gurukula best thing is outdoors classes. As soon as they're in rooms it gets too hot.
Prabhupada: As far as possible, outdoors.
Bhavananda: Best place in Mayapur is on the verandas of the big building. It's perfect.
Prabhupada: That is very nice.
Brahmananda: They have verandas on this building?
Prabhupada: Yes, there is veranda that side.
Brahmananda: On the inside or the outside?
Prabhupada: No. No. Inside. Outside closed. [break] ...no that reinforced concrete, all brick. This is all brick. (Hindi) You have got that brick manufacturing concern near?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Take as many bricks as you like. And we have got one address. You have taken, Agra, they will supply this lime. [break] (Hindi) ...rich men. Still, they are adulterating cement. (Hindi) [break] I heard it from very reliable source, my teacher. He was second teacher in my school, graduate, very good gentleman. He said that Edward VIII, er, VII, he was stealing jewels. You see?
Indian man (3): A very bad habit.
Prabhupada: Emperor of British Empire, and he was a thief. Just see.
Brahmananda: You've said that a fly sitting on a throne is still a fly.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...one gentleman, young man, he was very rich man's son. He would come in the evening in the Howrah station nicely dressed and would approach any gentleman, "Sir, I am very sorry. I have lost my purse. Can you give me? Otherwise I cannot return." So he will collect five, ten rupees and go to a restaurant and eat and go home. [break] It is the second nature. Now the door is open? We can go?
Kartikeya: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: ...enter. Not the cows.
Indian man (4): Physical world, this earth is there. Are there any other earthly planets of this type where human beings or other beings are staying other than spiritual beings?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Indian man (4): Why the information is not given about that?
Prabhupada: Why not? In Bhagavata there is all information.
Indian man (4): About the other earthly planets also?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. All, every each and every planet, Janaloka, Tapoloka, Maharloka, what kind of men are living there, what they are doing -- everything is there. Svargaloka.
Indian man (4): But do they not come here sometimes to visit us or we cannot go there?
Prabhupada: But you cannot see them. Your philosophy is unless you see, you don't believe. That is your philosophy. But you do not consider what you can see. That is the defect of this imperfect world, that people do not think that they are imperfect. With all imperfectness, they think they are perfect. That is the defect. Therefore it is said, andha. One is blind, and he is becoming the leader of other blind men. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [SB 7.5.31]. Isa-tantrya, by the laws of nature he is bound up very tight, hands and legs, and he is thinking he is free to think, free to see, free to... That is the defect. He is not at all free, completely under the clutches of material laws, and he is thinking that he is free. That is the defect. And when this sense comes, that "I am not free; everything is forced upon me," then he becomes human being. Otherwise he's a dog. Just like, you see, if a dog thinks he is free. He is jumping here, there. He is thinking, "I am independent," barking, attacking somebody. Oh, he is thinking he is free to do everything. When one comes to this sense, that he is not free, that is beginning of human life. Athato brahma jijnasa. Then the question will be that "Why I am not free? What is the reason?" Then that is... Real human life begins. Otherwise he's a dog. Is it correct or not? What do you think? If one is not free and wrongly thinks that he is free, then what is that mentality? A doggish mentality. And if I say, "Yes, you are free. You can think in any way you like. That is correct," then you become more encouraged to become, to remain a fool, to continue. That's all. So we shall go now? That is the defective part of modern civilization. Everyone is thinking, "I am free." Is it not? Everyone.
Indian man (5): Yes. "I am perfect. I am like this."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (5): He thinks who is living under the delusion.
Prabhupada: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, Sixteenth Chapter. "I am..." Adhyo 'smi dhanavan asmi ko'sti mama samah: "Who is there like me, intelligent? I will do this. I will do that." These are all...
Indian man (5): Continues delusion.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Krsna has imposed death, that "You may make your plan as free man, but you'll not be allowed to stay. I'll kick you out." These poor men, they did not think of it, that "I am making so nice plan, but at any moment I'll be kicked out. So where is my freedom?" Dull brain does not think of it. A prisoner, if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? A prisoner, in prison, and if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? So that they do not think. Therefore Krsna has grouped them: mudha, these rascals, mudha. They conduct freedom movement. Just like in our country also, before this British Empire or this Mohammedan Empire there was no knowledge about this freedom. Indian people never thought of freedom. They know that "We are not free. Where is the question of freedom?" These things have come from the foreign countries, freedom movement. What is freedom? Where are you free? You are completely under the laws of nature. Where is your freedom? So they were thinking of greater freedom, to get out of the clutches of the laws of nature. That is real freedom. What is this freedom? From frying pan to the fire? (chuckles) Now we have freedom means from frying pan to the fire. Formerly there was one viceroy. Now in each state three dozen viceroys, and you have to maintain that. So many legislators, so many secretaries, so many ministers. All, they are sucking our poor blood. That's all. Hare Krsna. And as soon as you approach them for some grievances, "All right, give me application," and, after six months, "No." So we are maintaining for this purpose? Yes. "I say no." That's all. Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break] ...ing of freedom, but we have no freedom even to stay in this body.
Indian man (6): Yes. That is not our plan.
Indian man (5): Somebody else is controlling that.
Prabhupada: Yes. We learn that na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. "This is my position. I am eternal. So why I am obliged to accept body which is hanyamana?" These questions do not bother them. And where is my freedom? "I am eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. I do not die after the destruction of my body. Then why I am put into this body which will be destroyed, which will become old, useless? And where is my freedom?" These things do not bother them, and they are reader of Bhagavad-gita.
Indian man (6): Somebody told that they are made to come here...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian man (6): Is it the sin of some of the...?
Prabhupada: No, that we shall consider. First of all we have to see that I learn that my position is na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So why I am put into this body which is hanyamana? (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Yes. (Hindi) They want to remain in darkness, and any leader who will keep him in the darkness in flowery language, he will be welcomed: "Oh, he is very good leader." "And this man is very conservative: 'Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.' " So here is freedom. "Whatever you like, you do" -- here is freedom. If this rascal does not do what you do and you go to hell, that is their business. Krsna therefore says, "You rascal, where is your freedom?" Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. First of all you see. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi. So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things; then question of freedom. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam. This is your knowledge, that "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi, then where is my freedom?" (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Simply rubber-stamped freedom will help me? Suppose I was dependent on British rule, and now I have become free. So will this help me to get freedom from janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi? Then where is my freedom? What are major questions, they have set aside. "Don't discuss all these things, and bother your head with trifle things." And our philosophy is that "Don't bother with these trifle things. Just seriously think of the major problems." This is our philosophy. Hare Krsna. [break] Tesam aham samuddharta mrtyu-samsara-sagarat [Bg. 12.7]. Samuddaharta, just to deliver them from this ocean of mrtyu-samsara. That is not care. Real freedom is given by him -- that you don't care. [ ...will be given by Krsna. This is no freedom. Here the so-called freedom-giver, he has no freedom. And what he will give, freedom? Gandhiji preached so much about nonviolence, and nonviolence said, "All right, you have no freedom from nonviolence. You die." (Hindi) [break] ...is there, there is no question of freedom. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Full Anxiety is not O.K.

July 25, 1975

download  Players


 

Take a test

---

Radha-vallabha: Well, it seems that they're complaining that people are depending on faith for their knowledge. So their claim is that "We do not depend on this faith. We simply take a group of facts, and from these facts, this strong body of facts, we develop a theory which will explain them."Prabhupada: Theory is not faith? Theory is not faith?
Jayadvaita: They say that the theory, it's simply an idea of how it could happen.
Prabhupada: That is faith.
Jayadvaita: But they don't believe the theory until they think they have sufficient facts.
Prabhupada: That is faith, I dare say, blind faith.
Radha-vallabha: These facts, these theories, are tested. By presenting more and more facts in the light of this theory, either the theory collapses under the new facts or it becomes strengthened. So by this method...
Prabhupada: What are the facts?
Radha-vallabha: Well, for example, you may see that living beings are reproducing geometrically. One couple produces two children, those children each produce two children, so in that way it appears that the animal population should be increasing geometrically. And we can see that...
Prabhupada: Who made that geometric?
Radha-vallabha: This is all just going on.
Prabhupada: Ah, accident. (laughter) That's all.
Radha-vallabha: So their observation is that even though this geometric progression of species is going on, still, the same amount of living beings in each species is remaining. So the theory to support this is that within each species there must be variations. And within these variations, certain ones are more favorable than others for survival. So in due course of time the unfavorable variations die out.
Prabhupada: That is already there. You are living more than the ants. That is already there.
Radha-vallabha: Their claim is that within a particular species the variations from birth to birth...
Prabhupada: Can they increase the life period of an ant?
Radha-vallabha: Well, their claim is that this can happen.
Prabhupada: "Can happen," that post-dated check again. This is the only shelter, post-dated check.
Hrdayananda: So it again comes down to faith on their part.
Prabhupada: All rascals. Don't waste time. But see their rascaldom.
Satsvarupa: One claim the scientists make is that they're more humble in their knowledge than we are. They don't say that this is the absolute...
Prabhupada: Why we should be humble? We are not foolish men, that we shall be humble. We must be proud of our knowledge. You are foolish; you become humble. (laughter) The dog is humble; man is not humble. The dog may bark, and man -- "Shut up!" Immediately... So you are like dogs. (laughter)
Radha-vallabha: Their claim is that species are not constant like our claim. They say that species constantly change till the original species is gone and a new species is created.
Prabhupada: What is that original species?
Radha-vallabha: Well, they say originally chemicals. Originally very complex chemicals, acids...
Prabhupada: Very complex again. So they cannot understand. So complex that they cannot understand. So what is the use of such theory?
Radha-vallabha: Well, they say these complex chemicals came from the simplest chemicals.
Prabhupada: Wherefrom?
Radha-vallabha: Well, they say in space there are many, many particles.
Prabhupada: How the space came?
Ramesvara: That's eternal. They say it's eternal. They say the space and the dust...
Prabhupada: Then why do you bother? Stop speculating. Everything is eternal. Why do you bother yourself to find out something new?
Ramesvara: To control. To gain control.
Prabhupada: No, you cannot control because you are controlled. That is eternally you are controlled. You are controlled.
Yadubara: Also, Srila Prabhupada, they don't recognize that there are so many species of life. Just like the white man and the black man they will say is one species. And also the aborigine.
Prabhupada: We... Let us accept forms, not species but forms. It doesn't matter. There is only change of words. There are so many forms.
Radha-vallabha: They say that the amount of forms is not constant because by breeding different forms together they can create completely new forms that never existed before.
Prabhupada: What is the use of creating new forms? Already there are eight million.
Radha-vallabha: But their claim is that by breeding different forms together they will get superior forms. They give the example...
Prabhupada: You cannot maintain your own child form. You are killing, and what is the use of increasing?
Radha-vallabha: Well, for example they used to have wild boars. They could not eat them. But they have bred now very fat pigs to eat. So they consider this to be a great advantage.
Yadubara: Also with fruits and vegetables they are combining and creating new types.
Prabhupada: Factually, (indistinct) so many varieties.
Brahmananda: Like the nectarine is a combination of a peach and a plum.
Jayadvaita: We have the real nectarine, though. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...created a new species, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: What they created? The nectarine you may have created, but the peach and the plum was there.
Tamala Krsna: But they have created a new thing.
Prabhupada: What new creation? Unless there was plum and peach, how could you create?
Tamala Krsna: So the peach and plum create .
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yadubara: So they're dependent on the material world. (?)
Radha-vallabha: [break] ...scientist named Fox who has. They have conjectured that these original very complex nucleic acids have created life. So he has taken these acids in a big test tube...
Prabhupada: I say (?) "Fox, go to the forest. (laughter) And cry there." Yes, we treat them as foxes and jackals, that's all, not even human beings. Why they waste time in this way and people are enamored by them? That is... Just like you were talking about space meeting. What they have gained out of it? And people are enamored to talk about them, write in the newspaper or make a subject matter. And then all of a sudden death comes, "Get out," finished. You see? How foolish they are. So, Hayagriva prabhu, how you are feeling?
Tamala Krsna: Hayagriva.
Prabhupada: How you are feeling?
Hayagriva: Oh, fine, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: That's nice. Hare Krsna. [break] Caitanya Mahaprabhu's order is yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Don't talk nonsense. Whomever you meet, if you want to become a leader and talk something, talk Krsna-katha, yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'..., what Krsna has said. Then satisfy your ambition to become a talker. Otherwise, you rascal, remain a talker only. You talk only; you get nothing. If you want to utilize your talking power, then talk what Krsna has instructed. Then your life will be successful. And if you talk foolishly, then you will be revealed as a rascal. Tavac ca sobhate murkho yavat kincin na bhasate: "A rascal fool is so long beautiful as long he does not speak. As soon as he speaks, then he is revealed that he is a rascal." So don't talk this. Tavac ca sobhate murkha. You can dress yourself, very nice gentleman. People will res...But as soon as you talk nonsense -- "Oh, here is a rascal," that's all. That is going on. They are... In the name of scientist, philosopher, they are talking nonsense and exposing themselves that they are all rascals. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...someone like Meher Baba who never spoke?
Prabhupada: That is another art of not being exposed. (laughter) Because as soon as he speaks he becomes rascal. So maunebaba... There is no enemy. There is in Bengali, bhovara satru nai: "If you are dumb, then nobody is your enemy." So they become bhovara means dumb; I don't speak. That means I don't create many enemies, Bhova that's all.
Tamala Krsna: Nothing positive, though.
Prabhupada: Yes. "You are O.K., I am O.K." That's all. (laughter)
Yadubara: Like that Yogi Bhajan. He didn't say anything for a long time. Then when he spoke he started speaking about his court cases.
Prabhupada: Court cases?
Yadubara: Yes.
Prabhupada: He is very expert, expert in dealing with legal cases. So what they will speak? What they have got? Better not to talk.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. During that meeting, that Muni, he was interested in spiritual conversation. But Yogi Bhajan, he did not take part at all in that part.
Prabhupada: No, no, he is after woman. That's all.
Yadubara: Afterwards he said his ego was very large. He said he had a big ego.
Prabhupada: Eagle? Eagle bird.
Tamala Krsna: No, ego, ego.
Prabhupada: Ego, oh.
Tamala Krsna: He admitted he had a very big ego.
Prabhupada: But who cares for you?
Yadubara: He said he was trying to do away with it.
Prabhupada: But your beard is growing more and more. [ He said that "I say to my disciples that if you have to take instruction, that is Bhaktivedanta Prabhu." He said that.
Tamala Krsna: Then why doesn't he go to Bhaktivedanta?
Prabhupada: No he comes.
Tamala Krsna: Oh. Yeah, you are not going to him. [break]
Prabhupada: ...first came to me that "We are trying to establish universal brotherhood." You were not present. Who was present? I said, "It is all bogus. You will never be able to do it." Immediately I told him." It is all bogus. You will never be able to."
Tamala Krsna: I noticed, Srila Prabhupada, in your conversation with him that there was some mention that the Vedas were the universal doctrine. So he mentioned, I think, that his... What is that book they have? The Guru-grantha could also be accepted as universal. And I think you said something that it was only a branch.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: He was feeling that it wasn't a branch. It was as good. [break]
Prabhupada: ...light?
Hrdayananda: What is that light?
Kirtiraja: It's on the boat.
Hrdayananda: On the boat? [break]
Prabhupada: ...interested, just like you give somebody two kinds of vegetables and spices, ghee, and he makes a nice preparation. So people, these so-called scientists, they are like that. But we are after wherefrom the vegetable came. That is the difference.
Brahmananda: Who supplied.
Prabhupada: Who supplied. That is the difference. He is trying to take credit by mixing these vegetable and spices and salt and ghee, and he is expert in preparing a very nice, palatable... But we say that "Where you got the vegetables? Where you got the spices? Where you got the ghee?" And they are not concerned about that.
Jayadvaita: They don't want to tell.
Prabhupada: They do not know.
Tamala Krsna: Less intelligent.
Prabhupada: Our philosophy is yato va imani bhutani jayante: The original source of all these things.
Ramesvara: They think if they can make very palatable dishes, what is the need for God?
Prabhupada: But without God where you get the ingredients?
Ramesvara: He is automatically supplying them.
Prabhupada: Oh, therefore there is no need of God. I supply you everything and you say, "There is no need of you." It is very good intelligence. Ungrateful. The intelligence is ungrateful. So such men should not be given any credit, ungrateful.
Radha-vallabha: They also say that "At least our method proves out with facts, whereas your method, there is no facts. Simply you have some faith. So better that at least we know the facts and not know the source."
Prabhupada: We know (?) fact. We accept this earth, water, air, fire, everything. Bhumir apo...
Radha-vallabha: So we can see this is here.
Prabhupada: So where..? Our position is: "Wherefrom it came?"
Radha-vallabha: Well, we have to test this out scientifically. We can't just accept.
Prabhupada: No. You say that the water is composition of hydrogen and oxygen. Wherefrom you got this so much hydrogen, oxygen, the Pacific Ocean? There is so much water needed in so many places. Why don't you take chemical and pour water? Why you talk nonsense?
Brahmananda: They can make a little water in a test tube.
Prabhupada: (laughs) That's all. (laughter) That we can produce while I pass urine. (laughter) So you can create little urine, but that we do automatically. At least I do. Every hour I pass urine. So your credit is urine-maker. (laughter)
Radha-vallabha: We have developed a method of seeding clouds. We send airplanes into the clouds and spread chemicals, and then rain comes. So what need is there for...
Brahmananda: Sometimes, not all the time.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Brahmananda: Sometimes they're able to...
Ramesvara: Agitate the cloud to produce rain.
Hrdayananda: And but now they find out it's causing worse effects, so they have to stop that also.
Prabhupada: So why don't you create...
Tamala Krsna: The clouds.
Prabhupada: Clouds and sufficient rain in the desert where there is.., so much water is needed. Why don't you do that? If you say, "Yes, I have passed urine in the desert." (laughs) what is the..? "I have passed urine on the desert." That desert is fulfilled?
Yadubara: Sometimes in times of great need, in the desert they will hire these Indian rainmakers, and they will do some dance to try to create rain. [break]
Prabhupada: ...no need of creating water. You have no such intelligence. Just like the Arabian desert is there; Arabian Sea is there. Why don't you utilize this water? Instead of bluffing others that "We can create water," why don't you use this water and make the desert fertile? [break] ...create a little water in the test tube, so you take that credit. Why you want to take the credit of creating a Pacific Ocean? That is our protest. You are able to create one ounce of water in the test tube. That's all right, miracle done. But we say that one who has created the Pacific Ocean, how much credit he will be given. That is our proposal. You take test tube credit, but you must give Pacific credit to God. That is wanted. But creating test tube water, you want to take the Pacific credit. Is that very nice proposal? [break] ...spoken by one scientist in our Delhi meeting. Who were present in the Delhi meeting?
Tamala Krsna: I was.
Prabhupada: That scientist's name?
Tamala Krsna: Dr. Atmaram.
Prabhupada: Dr. Atmaram, that "We have simply learned how to bark like dog, but we don't care so many dogs are already barking." He admitted that if a man learns how to bark, people will purchase ticket and see him, and so many thousands of dogs, dog, are barking -- nobody cares. This is scientist. You learn how to bark, imitate the dog, and you become important man. You have create one third fruit by mixing peach and plum, and one who is creating millions and trillions of fruits that is lying on the floor -- nobody cares for that -- he has no credit. These rascals wants credit for this most insignificant...
Satsvarupa: They say their barking is an improvement on the original dog.
Prabhupada: To another dog appreciates like that. (laughter)
Ramesvara: [break] ...philosophy is that originally God's creation is not perfect. It is... Nature is very wild, and man can make it perfect.
Prabhupada: You have not come to that perfection, so you are not important. [break] ...Muslim country there is a word, khodaka upar kimvar dhari. (?) Khoda (?) means God. These rascals want to go above God. [break]
Jayadvaita: ...tees have remarked that since you have come to Los Angeles, the Deity has increased in beauty many times, Krsna. [break]
Prabhupada: ...my anxiety, that in my absence you may neglect Deity worship. Then the whole thing will be spoiled. That is my anxiety. [break]
Radha-vallabha: ...are very worried. They say the earth has a certain tilt, and every few million years the tilt is changing little, little, and by this changing eventually the ice on the North and South Poles will melt, they say. So they are very afraid because then their estimate is that the entire earth will be covered with water.
Prabhupada: Why he is..? Why he is afraid?
Radha-vallabha: Well, they are afraid for future humanity. They will all be killed.
Prabhupada: He is not careful about himself. He is thinking... He cannot take care of himself, he is thinking of others.
Radha-vallabha: They this is a humanitarian attitude, to worry about the future.
Prabhupada: So to protect yourself is not humanitarian? You are "dogtarian"? You cannot protect yourself and thinking about humanity. You are also human being. Why don't you take care of you first of all?
Radha-vallabha: Maybe it is a higher duty to worry about people in the future.
Prabhupada: No, no, duty... That I know. But why don't you take care of you?
Radha-vallabha: I've got a job.
Brahmananda: Well, they think they're O.K. They think, "We're all right."
Ramesvara: But this is broadminded.
Prabhupada: No, he is not O.K. because he is full of anxiety. He's not O.K. How he can say he is O.K.? A rascal, full of anxiety, and he is thinking "O.K.," just see.
Yadubara: I think they are thinking they will live for millions of years.
Prabhupada: That is post-dated check again. So many rascals spoke like that, but they are washed away by the waves of nature. You see? That is rascaldom.
Radha-vallabha: That is their first anxiety, that the ice will melt and cover the earth with water. Their next anxiety is that it will be covered with ice.
Prabhupada: That's all right. Ice melt or not melt, you are not going to live; you will die. So others will die. So you cannot protect yourself and others also. So why you are unnecessarily full of anxiety? You cannot. Pasyann api na pasyati. Pramattah tesam nidhanam pasyann api na pasyati. These things are already discussed in Srimad-Bhagavatam. You don't read? These rascals.
Radha-vallabha: I have no time. My science books...
Prabhupada: You have time to talk all this nonsense. (laughter) And you have no time to read Bhagavata, that's all. This is our misfortune. [break]
Jayadvaita: ...at the airport they cannot save themselves from our book distributors.
Prabhupada: Rather, they purchase also.
Jayadvaita: Yes. The scientists become conquered. [break]
Prabhupada: ...scientists do not manufacture brain and give it to a stone, and he becomes a scientist. Why do they not do that? Manufacture. You have got so nice brain. Now manufacture another brain and put it on the stone, and he becomes that, what is called, Frankenstein? (laughter) Why they are not able to create another brain? What is the answer?
Jayatirtha: They haven't been able to get sufficient research grants from the government.
Ramesvara: They need more money from the government to...
Tamala Krsna: They say they will do it.
Prabhupada: And then what is his position? Who has created his brain?
Radha-vallabha: This just came in the course of evolution.
Prabhupada: So then why you are talking so much? It will come, everything. Why you are wasting time. Let it come everything by evolution.
Jagannatha-suta: They say, "Where everything has come from, that is not so much important, but let us take the forces that we have now, the forces of nature, and use them for the betterment of mankind. Where it comes from..."
Prabhupada: What is the betterment?
Jagannatha-suta: "Yes, because years ago people would have to go out in the cold and chop a tree to get wood for fire. Now they simply turn the stove, and the fire is there."
Prabhupada: That you say, that the wood was there and people were taking. You do not know. You are so foolish. The woods were there already and people were there. They were taking advantage.
Jagannatha-suta: "Yeah, we've arranged it in such a way. Now it's easier for us to carry on our daily lives by adjusting things like this. Where it comes from. It's already there. We admit it's there. Where it comes from, it's not so important."
Prabhupada: They used to create fire by mantra. Can you do that?
Brahmananda: They need natural gas, and the natural gas is running out.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Radha-vallabha: We don't believe in these mantras because there's no fossils.
Prabhupada: I don't believe you also. Who believes, you? Some rascals may believe.
Radha-vallabha: There's so much evidence, though. We have fossils.
Prabhupada: No, no, we have also evidence. If you don't believe me, who is going to believe you? [break]
Radha-vallabha: ...Srila Prabhupada, where Darwin actually admitted that there was a creator.
Kirtiraja: He admitted?
Radha-vallabha: Yes. He said, "So we can see that the creator originally breathed the air of life into living objects, and from there on evolution took place."
Prabhupada: That is good. [break]
Yadubara: ...that theory is correct, isn't it, in a sense, that the bodies are always changing? The bodies are always changing, so from the outward appearance it seems that the evolutionary theory is correct.
Prabhupada: No, that is... We, accepting evolution. But their evolution is that there is no soul who is the proprietor of the body. That they do not know.
Yadubara: So there is no meaning to their theory then.
Prabhupada: Because in beginning is mistaken. [break] ...your education from wrong platform, then whole thing is wrong. [break]...study means that "I am this dress," then do you study me properly? So that is their intelligence. They are studying, Darwin studying, this body and no knowledge of the proprietor of the body. [break]
Radha-vallabha: They argue that this Vedic philosophy is coming from India, and in India there is so much disease and so many problems, but here, where we have our science, there is no disease.
Prabhupada: Because they are now fond of you. The Indians have become infected by you; therefore they are diseased. You are all diseased, and now you infected them, they have also become diseased.
Brahmananda: But why is there no disease here? Why is there no symptoms?
Prabhupada: There is no disease? Why you are anxious about the cancer, the big disease? India may be suffering from small disease, and because you are suffering from big disease, therefore you are big. "We... I am suffering from big disease." First of all become diseaseless, then talk of that India is suffering and you are not suffering. You are big, and you are suffering from big disease, that's all. [break]
Brahmananda: The wife of the president Ford, she has gotten cancer, and she had to have operation, very painful.
Prabhupada: Big man, big disease, big pain.
Brahmananda: Yes. The president could not protect his own wife.
Jayadvaita: The vice-president's also.
Prabhupada: Vice-president?
Jayadvaita: His wife also.
Jagannatha-suta: Rockefeller.
Prabhupada: Question is that India is small, he is suffering from malaria, and you are big; you are suffering from cancer. So a big man, big disease; a small man, small disease. But we wants the diseaseless. But you become proud: "Oh, we have got big disease. For treatment we pay the physician thousands of dollar. You pay eight annas. Therefore I am better. I am able to pay the physician millions of dollars. You cannot pay. Therefore I am big." [break]
Brahmananda: The hospitals here have better facilities than in countries in India.
Prabhupada: Yes, that's all right. It is simply proportion, five upon ten and five millions upon ten million. The proportion is the same. Because the figure is five million over ten million, that does not mean that the proportion is not the same. Put five upon ten or five million for ten mill..., the result is the same. [break]
Radha-vallabha: ...also create food grains like this with their chemicals. They could do it too.
Prabhupada: So why don't you produce more and give to India?
Radha-vallabha: Well, it belongs to us.
Prabhupada: Why other parts, they will suffer for gain. That's nice. You have made scientific improvement. You produce more and distribute to the poor country. [break] we become advanced in Krsna consciousness and become advance in science and cooperate. That is our proposition. Andha-kanja-nyaya. One is blind; one is lame. So let the lame man be taken by the blind man. He can walk and they... Both their work will be nicely done. That I put this argument always. Andha-kanja-nyaya. You are blind by material advancement, and India has got spiritual advancement, but for want of money they cannot Move. So you take this lame man, you blind, on your shoulder, and cooperation will be good for the whole world. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

How Blind People Are!

Chicago, July 8, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: So blind and the lame man combined together will perform a great task. [break] ...blindly, simply accumulating money, but they do not know how to utilize the money. They should take direction, authorized direction from us, and then it will be very nice. [break] ...not these concocted "isms." This "ism," that "ism," that "ism." Because it is, andha yathandhair upaniyamanah. These all rascals are blind. They do not know how to direct. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya [SB 7.5.31]. They are trying to adjust the world affairs blindly. They do not know. So let us combine. Let them come forward, take direction from us. After all, your money, my money, your intelligence, my intelligence -- everything belongs to Krsna. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisthah [Bg. 15.15]. Krsna is giving intelligence. We must agree to take His good advice. Early morning till night, we are always thinking, "How people will be happy by Krsna consciousness?" And they are coming here for rowing boat. You see? How blind they are! The human life, so intelligent life, and they are utilizing for rowing boat. How blind they are! Not a single moment to be wasted and they are simply finding out, "How to waste time?" [break] ...is "Crime, what to do?" "Hippies, what to do?" "Problems, what to do?" Why "What to do?" Here is a direction. Do like this." "No, sir, that I will not do." [break] ...to take photo.Tamala Krsna: Visakha, take photo. [break]
Prabhupada: And the steps...
Harikesa: The steps also.
Prabhupada: Just try to understand. Our lake in Mayapur we shall make like this, all sides clear and four sides, the steps, ghata, and garden.
Visakha: Four sides, the steps?
Prabhupada: These steps, you see? Here, there... There is no... Just opposite.
Tamala Krsna: Four corners.
Prabhupada: Four... Not four corners. Four sides.
Visakha: And also with that in the center? Island?
Prabhupada: No, island is not required. Make a program like that.
Tamala Krsna: Take photos.
Prabhupada: And if possible, send them ideas and direction. Bhavananda has gone. [break] ...convince them that they are doing very nice, to their best capacity, but they are doing it blindly. You are very good driver, but if you are a blind man, then how you will drive? You will create disaster. So we can open their eyes so that their good driving capacity will be properly utilized. A good driver, blind, what he will do? Ajnana-timirandhasya. Darkness, it will not help. The western method of seeing things -- blind eyes. Actually, they are blind. They are trying to see things with microscope. First of all you are blind. What you will see? Microscope, this machine or that machine, but you are blind. That they do not know. [break]
Devotee: What should I do if I'd like to preach more and become free from my family entanglements?
Prabhupada: Just teach him what to do. Tell him.
Tamala Krsna: What was his ques... What should you do...?
Devotee: I want to preach more and become free from my family entanglement.
Tamala Krsna: I think Jagadisa is having some preaching programs. So your family is no hindrance. Preaching is not hindered by family, one way or the other.
Prabhupada: Ahaituky apratihata. Why don't you understand? Preaching cannot be checked by anything -- if you want to preach. In any circumstances you can preach. Pranair arthair dhiya vaca. Preaching can be executed by four things: by your life, by your money, by your intelligence, and by your words. You have got so many assets. So you can utilize it for preaching. Dedicate your life. If you think that you are family man, you cannot dedicate twenty-four hours, then earn money and give it to Krsna consciousness movement as other family men, they are earning money. Eh? Is it not? You can earn. In America there is good facility for earning money. They want that you work and take money. So earn money as grhastha and give it to Krsna. Pranair arthair. If you cannot earn money, then use your intelligence. There are so many intellectual work: publication, going to this officer, that officer. You, intellectually you try. And vaca, by words. If you cannot do anything, go anyone, anywhere and say that "Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just offer your obeisances." Finished. So where is the scarcity? You can serve Krsna in any capacity-provided you want to serve. And if you want to engage Krsna for your service, that is blunder. Then it is blunder. You cannot engage Krsna to your service. The everyone is trying to engage Krsna for his service. They are going to the church, "O Krsna, give us our daily bread," that "You serve me. You give us our daily bread and serve me." And our proposition is, Yasodamayi, "Krsna, You are playing all day. Come on! Take food first of all." This is service. They are going to Krsna for asking daily bread. And here Yasodamayi is commanding, "Come here! If You don't eat, You will get lean and thin. Come on." This is Vaisnava philosophy.
Devotee: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...is concerned, "How Krsna will keep good health?" And we are concerned, "Krsna will go to hell. Please supply me food so that I might keep my health good." That is the difference between materialistic and spiritualist. The foolish man does not understand that Krsna is supplying food to the elephant, to the ant, and why I shall go to the church for asking my food? It is already there. And our policy is, "Krsna, Hare Krsna, please engage me in Your service." Hare Krsna means, "O Krsna, O the energy of Krsna, please engage me in Your service." We create problem. Otherwise, no problem. Krsna has arranged everything. Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Just see so many fruits for the birds. They are so sumptuously supplied, they are thrown. Purnam idam [Iso Invocation]. Everything is sufficient. But these rascal blind, they do not know. They are trying to adjust. What adjustment? It is already sufficient. You are misusing that. Sufficient land, sufficient intelligence. Everything is sufficient. They are misusing. In Africa, in Australia, sufficient land, and they are raising cattle to kill them. This is their intelligence. And growing coffee and tea.
Tamala Krsna: And tobacco.
Devotee: For money, for profit.
Tamala Krsna: And tobacco.
Prabhupada: Tobacco, by which... They know tobacco is bad, and they are utilizing time for growing tobacco and smoking tobacco. This is their intelligence. So blind men... Give them intelligence, these rascals. We call therefore only rascals. People are dying for want of food grains, and they are growing tobacco, which smoking, they will go to hell. This is their intelligence. Huh? What do you think?
Satsvarupa: I agree.
Prabhupada: This is the idea.
Sudama: And they even indicate, Prabhupada, on the advertisements that smoking is hazardous for the health.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...for money, the money which will push them to hell. This is their intelligence. We have to give them intelligence, open their eyes. [break] ...angry first of all because murkhayo 'padeso hi prakopaya na santaye: "If you give good intelligence to the fools and rascals, they will be angry." But still, you have to do it. Just like when Nityananda Prabhu went to Jagai-Madhai to deliver them, they became angry and injured. So that is preacher. These rascals will be angry, will sometimes do harm to you, and still, you have to do it. That is preaching. Are you understanding what is preaching? Yes. You have to prepare like that. At all risk you have to preach. [break] ...world is full of rascals, and you have to educate them. So according to one's capacity let them preach, pranair arthair dhiya vaca. But everyone can preach to some extent. There is no hindrance.
Jaga-jivana: Is everything done in our movement for preaching? Everything that is done in our movement is done for preaching?
Prabhupada: Yes. To awaken their Krsna consciousness. They are in dog consciousness; we have to raise them to God consciousness. Don't you see how much they are taking care of the dog? Because they do not know, blind, whether they will be God conscious or dog conscious. So the dog conscious people should be raised to the platform of God conscious. That is preaching. Mudha nabhijanati. These rascals, they do not know the life is meant for understanding God. That they... Ask anyone. Nobody knows. They are so fool. They want to remain dog. The dog is also running; they are also running. And because they can run on by car, they are thinking they are civilized. But the business is running, that's all.
Tamala Krsna: And the purpose for the running is the same.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
Prabhupada: That's all. [break] ...condemn running by car, but utilize it for Krsna. That we want. If the purpose is same, like dog, then what is the use of running by car? [break] ...by car to preach Krsna consciousness. [break] ...not after that philosophy, that jagan mithya brahma satya, no. We say jagat is also satya because brahma satya, the jagat is also satya. It is mithya because it is improperly utilized. Let it be utilized properly, it is also truth. It is truth actually. You cannot say, "This is a false tree." This is the ignorance. How it is false? But it is being misused. That is false. You cannot misuse anything which is given by God. You should properly utilize it. Then it is truth. And as soon as you misuse it, it is untruth.
Tamala Krsna: So material consciousness is false.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything can be utilized for Krsna. That is our preaching. That is truth. There is a nice car. Why shall I condemn it? Utilize it for Krsna. Then it is truth. And the Mayavadi philosophers, they will say, "It is untruth. Give it up." No. When you have produced something by your good intelligence, it is truth, but when you use it for other purpose than Krsna, then it is false. [break] ...Deity nicely decorated, if I say, "It is all false," is that very good sense? They have created such a nice thing. No, the purpose for which you have created or utilized, that is false. So we want to change the consciousness. We don't condemn the thing. [break] ...with a knife you are cutting vegetables and utilizing, but if you use it for cutting your throat, that is bad. That is bad. So they are using the knife for cutting their own throat. This is bad. [ The sastra says, nidraham adyam plavam sukalpam. This body... We are just crossing the ocean of nescience. So this body is a good boat. maya ete 'rtam guruh karna-dharam. And the wind is favorable, Krsna's instruction. And the captain is guru. He is guiding you. With all these facilities, if you cannot cross the nescience, then you are cutting your throat. [break] ...boat is there, the captain is there, the favorable wind is there. But we are not utilizing it. That means I am killing myself. [break] ...nity. is there. [break] ...policy. The policy is suicidal. That is the defect. So preaching means to remove this defect and utilize the policy for going ahead. [break]
Devotee: Is it because of our impurity that we can't convince them to stop cutting their throat?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: His question is whether is it due to our impurity that we cannot convince people to stop cutting their throats.
Prabhupada: No, it is due to their impurity, they do not take. What you are saying, that is pure. But the difficulty is if you instruct a rascal, he becomes angry. The example is given that if you give milk and banana to the serpent, he increases his poison. Payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. Therefore we have to select sometimes that our preaching is in the proper place. Because a snake-like person, they will not hear. But if you are a good charmer, you can charm the snake also. (laughter) That depends on your quality. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu did. He made these snakes, the tigers, the elephants, all dancing Hare Krsna. That is possible by Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Tripurari: Just like you have charmed all of us, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Well, I am not going to imitate Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (laughs) I have come to New York, not to the jungle. (laughter)
Sudama: New York is worse than jungle.
Tamala Krsna: It is called an asphalt jungle.
Prabhupada: After all, they are human being. Therefore we have collected some nice souls. [break] If you can go to the jungle, that is no hindrance, but let us take the opportunity of the civilized nations, preach them. Yad yad acarati sresthah [Bg. 3.21]. They are leading the whole civilization. If they are convinced, it will be great benefit to the human race. [break] Also my Guru Maharaja said that "You go to the western country." If he had said that "You go to the jungle," I would have gone. [break] ...preacher, either the jungle or the city is the same. Narayana-parah na kutascana bibhayati. One who is devotee of the Lord, he does not make any discrimination that "This is jungle and this is city." Svargapavarga-narakesv api tulyartha-darsinah [SB 6.17.28]. For them, everywhere, Krsna's property. So where Krsna asks him to go and serve, he will go. That's all. [break]
Jaga-jivana: All classes of men should preach Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: Yes. First of all he must know what to preach. If he does not know what to preach, what he will preach? You have got a preaching capacity, provided you learn the art of preaching. But everyone can preach. That's a fact.
Devotee: What is to become of those devotees that leave ISKCON and take to breaking the regulative principles, and stop chanting sixteen rounds?
Prabhupada: Explain.
Devotee: There are even brahmanas in our temple who have left the temple and they are acting just like karmis.
Prabhupada: So they were wrongly initiated. We want recommendation from the authority, whether one should be initiated, but they gave wrong information. That is the defect of the informer. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...Hari-nama initiation can be a little more liberal.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: But brahmana initiation should be strict.
Prabhupada: Very strict. Very strict means he must be observed that he is actually chanting sixteen rounds, following the regulative principles. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: Those are the important...?
Prabhupada: These are the criterions, that he is actually, seriously doing this. Then he can be initiated. Otherwise useless. He will fall down. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...stated that one who does not, an unsuccessful person in yoga practice takes his next birth, sucinam srimatam gehe [Bg. 6.41].
Prabhupada: That is another thing, but you are fallen. Who take birth in high family or in opulent, that is the fallen condition. That is not successful con... But they are taking, "This is success. I have got so much money. I have got so much prestige. This is success."
Tamala Krsna: That's a fallen condition.
Prabhupada: That is fallen condition.
Devotee: They think that is the success of life.
Prabhupada: They think. They are foolish. They can think like that. Generally, that is... Not that devotees are not opulent. No, that is not. But this materialistic opulence means fallen condition.
Tamala Krsna: The demigods are in a very opulent position also.
Prabhupada: Yes. But they are devotees.
Tamala Krsna: But they are devotees, not fallen.
Prabhupada: They can fall. Everyone can fall. [break]
Tripurari: ...says that a sannyasi should not take, be anxious for disciples but should only take those who are qualified. But sometimes, when there's no one qualified, he takes a risk.
Prabhupada: Yes. One who does not like to take the risk, they do not take the risk of preaching. But one who takes the risk, he is recognized by Krsna immediately, "Oh, he is taking risk." But he must know where to take risk and where to act foolishly. Just like Nityananda Prabhu took the risk of being injured. But He was certain that "I can deliver him." That is...
Tamala Krsna: You took a great risk also, Prabhupada, by coming to us.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. I have already written that. I was thinking that "What shall I do here? I have come here. As soon as I shall impose these four principles they will say, 'Go home.' " But I took that risk. I never said anything palatable. Against their activities, "You don't do this, don't do this." [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...compromised at all, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: No, what is the use of compromise if there is no good result?
Tamala Krsna: Someone who compromises, he actually wants followers.
Prabhupada: That is not good. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu decried, na dhanam na janam, "I don't want these followers." What is the use of follower if he does not follow? [break] ...idam. Everything is sufficient, complete. Why they are embarrassed with incompleteness? Everyone is trying to adjust incompleteness, but the Vedic information, "Everything is complete." That means lacking knowledge. The car is complete. One who does not know to drive, he will find it incomplete, "Where to push on, this way, that way." He does not know how to drive the car. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

First you understand the soul, then discriminate what is sin

Germany, June 17, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: What is there? He is digging? [break] Just see the fun.Devotee: Of all the four pillars of sinful activity, is meat-eating the worst?
Prabhupada: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Krsna says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it. "There is no soul. There is no soul. Life is generated from matter." Although they cannot prove it. A fool's paradise. The fools, rascals, they are explaining the living force in some way, and other fools are accepting. This is the position of western countries, Europe and America. It is a fool's paradise. It is paradise, certainly. Very, very, big, big building and advancement, but all rascals and fools. Fool's paradise. (pause) And if you call a fool a fool, he'll be angry. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopayati na samyati (?). (pause) [break] ...so many, so much production, but if nature's law can stop this production, then the question of over-population. If the nature likes, it can produce three times, four times this production. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani [Bg. 3.27]. After all, nature is producing. We do not know how to deal with nature. Therefore there is scarcity, and we say, "over-population." There is no question of over-population. There are so many hundreds and thousands of birds within this forest, other animals. They have no problems of over-population. Eh? (pause) All these men, who are living in these villages, so what is their means of livelihood? Agriculture or industry? Or service?
Hamsaduta: I think mostly they work at some... Well, some service, yes.
Prabhupada: Factory.
Hamsaduta: Employed at some factory. But very few people actually work on the land. And we can see so much land. No one is working. 'Cause by machine, they can work so quick on the land. [break]
Prabhupada: This should be exemplary, that our community shall live in this way and save time for spiritual advancement of life. This example should be shown to the whole world, that "Here is a community. They have no problem, and they are simply interested in Krsna consciousness." This will be the idea. Is it possible?
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. "They do not do any industry. They do not kill cows. They do not go to cinema. They do not have illicit sex. They don't drink. No problems. Simply they're eating very nicely and chanting Hare Krsna." Show this example. At least, in this fool's paradise. They are thinking it is paradise. And the paradise is lost every ten years or fifteen years by the bombing. German bombs the France, and France bombs the... This is their paradise. So let them understand that "You are all fools. You are fool's paradise. This is life, what we are doing." Teach them so that the fools will understand what is life. They are manufacturing atom bomb. Russia is hiding himself.
Devotee: Now they've found out, Srila Prabhupada, that India has been, over the past few years, spending crores of rupees to develop the...
Prabhupada: Hm. And people are starving for want of. There was a cartoon that some public came to some minister: "Sir, we are starving. Give us our food." So the reply was: "Of course, that's a problem, food problem. But I can assure you that from next week you'll have television." (laughter) These rascals are like that. "Next, from next week, you'll have television, atom bomb. Never mind. Starve." (laughter) So that is also becoming fool's paradise. Jada-vidya jato mayara vaibhava. In this way, the more we increase sense, sense gratification by advancement of material..., the more we forget Krsna. And more we forget Krsna, we are more fools. (aside:) Don't come so near.
Devotee: In England and America now, more and more there is a big movement for birth control and contraceptives...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee: ...as their means to conquer over the so-called over-population problem.
Prabhupada: No, it is not over-population. They don't want to take care of children. This is their problem. It is not the question of over-population. They want to remain free and enjoy life, that's all. No responsibility. That is the hippies. That is the hippy movement.
Devotee: I have seen in all the big colleges and universities in England that I have been to, that this, amongst the students, the boys and girls, it is becoming so free. It is just like a hippy commune, the universities and colleges.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are indebted in so many ways. Therefore human being should be responsible. But the modern civilization is teaching to become irresponsible.
Hamsaduta: [break] ...there, on the sun.
Prabhupada: So suppose if your heat increases, what happens to you?
Hamsaduta: I get sick.
Prabhupada: That's all. [break] ...samudvigna, always full of anxiety. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam. Intelligence is always absorbed: "Enemy may not come. Let me discover this, discover this atom bomb. This will save me. This will save me." This is their position. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat [SB 7.5.5]. Why this anxiety? Because they have accepted something false as truth. Asad-grahat. They have accepted sense gratification is the truth. Indriyani parany ahuh. Indriyani means senses. Para, supreme. This is supreme. And then, if somebody is little advanced, indriyebhyah param manah. Then the mental speculators, psychologists, philosophers, another, better class of rascals... This is the third-class rascal, and they are second-class rascal. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhyah param manah, manasas tu para buddhih [Bg. 3.42]. Then the intelligent class. They consider, "What is this nonsense? They are all suffering here." In this way, one who becomes actually intelligent, wise, then he understands, "Krsna is everything." Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So that highest position we are giving by Krsna consciousness. We are not training them to be first-class fools, second-class fools, third-class... No. First-class intelligent. Krsna yei bhaje sei bada catura. Without being first-class, intelligent man, nobody can take to Krsna consciousness [break] ...drink everything. And why they fight? What is the cause? Suppose father gives all necessities of life to the children. Why they should fight? Simply ignorance and foolishness. That's all. Where is the cause of fighting? Just like Pandavas, to settle up their misunderstanding, Krsna said, "All right, they are ksatriyas, They cannot take up the occupation of vaisya or sudra. Give them five villages so that they'll be happy. They'll rule over, each one on the village." "No, Sir. Not a piece of land holding the tip of the needle can be spared without fighting." This is the world. The German, German war, First World War, what was the cause? The cause was that the Britishers will not allow the Germans to trade all over the world. They captured everything. And they'll purchase from Germany goods and cheat people...,
Hamsaduta: And sell...
Prabhupada: ..."Made in London," and sell it fifteen times higher than the Germans. This was their business. And that was the cause of... Is it not? Those who have studied history... This is the cause. So all this nonsense thing can be solved if we take it: "This is Krsna's property." And if you know something, you are manufac..., that's all right. You do it. I do something else. Or even if I do it, where is the cause of fighting? Because they do not know what is Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Everyone Knows Your Philosophy

Bombay, November 19, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Dr. Patel: Yes, Sunday, the sun is the center, and I mean, that is, I recall, first sun, and then Monday is next day, then Tuesday, which is next to the earth, and Wednesday next to the sun.Prabhupada: Then sun is first, then moon. But they say moon is first, then sun.
Dr. Patel: Who says?
Prabhupada: The scientists.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Yes. They say the moon is...
Dr. Patel: So far the distance is concerned, moon may be nearest.
Prabhupada: How it is, that?
Dr. Patel: It is so, sir.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Dr. Patel: Our science says so. Your science may not. And we don't want to clash the sciences here. Let us talk about philosophy.
Prabhupada: You science... (laughs) Jump over.
Dr. Patel: Chandra is the upagraha, isn't it? As guru has got many such grahas.
Prabhupada: It is one of the celestial planets. And they say there is no life.
Dr. Patel: It is not self-luminous. All grahas are not self-luminous. When we observe in the sky, those stars are bleeping like this. The grahas are straight as that, the Sukra behind us, just steady light.
Prabhupada: [break] ...philosophy is also incorrect, there is no life after death.
Dr. Patel: Who says so?
Prabhupada: Oh, so many, all Westerners.
Dr. Patel: The Easterns... That does not mean... The Eastern philosophy is only with the jagrati stage. But the jiva has got three stages, and the fourth stage, the turiya stage, is the real stage that we understand. They don't have idea of it, unfortunately. So that philosophy is not the real philosophy of life. Life as a whole should have its own philosophy. They don't understand that there is anything beyond the jagrati stage. But then there is a svapna stage, there is a sleep stage and the turiya stage. In that if I am wrong you may correct me, sir.
Prabhupada: You cannot be corrected.
Dr. Patel: I cannot be wrong, say that.
Prabhupada: No, I cannot correct you.
Dr. Patel: You? You cannot be correct...? Why I should not be corrected? Because the philosophy must encompass the whole life, not a part of it. All Western philosophers, only except Schopenhauer and Eckhart, they only thought about the waking stage. They have never thought about the dream and the deep sleep stage and the stage beyond the three. None of them, excepting Eckhart of Germany. So the Western philosophers are all wrong or partially true. [break] The Western philosophers have never thought about the three other stages, none of them.
Prabhupada: [break] ...philosophy rejects any philosophy based on thinking.
Dr. Patel: But you see thinking is an apparatus which takes you beyond thinking.
Prabhupada: That is another.
Dr. Patel: That takes you beyond thinking. You cannot go beyond thinking without thinking to be taken as a fact.
Prabhupada: But thinking must be intelligent thinking.
Dr. Patel: But thinking is always...
Prabhupada: Foolish thinking has no value. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhya para mana manasas tu para buddhir [Bg. 3.42]. So thinking should be under the direction of intelligence.
Dr. Patel: Buddhi, buddhiman, and ahankara, all are the internal apparatus, what you call antah-karana. They work together in reason. One thing does not act separately from the other, as we know.
Prabhupada: There are separate arrangement, although they are one.
Dr. Patel: They are the different facets of the same internal organ as a whole.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break] ...set is there, but beyond that mental stage there is intellect. Beyond intellect there is soul.
Dr. Patel: To go beyond intellect for a body conscious ego, the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jiva, and then he travels further up to find his own identity and his own relation with God. Before, I mean, mind is one, you cannot go beyond it. That is what my conjecture. I may be wrong for all that.
Prabhupada: No, no. One has to go beyond the mind, but one, those who are stuck up with the mind, they are useless. So the Western philosophers, they are stuck up with the mind. That is the defect. [break] ...bhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih. Manorathena, mental concoction, asatah. Western philosophers, they take the mind as the soul. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Hm?
Dr. Patel: Yes. And the Communists think even the matter is more important than the mind. What do you call? Dialectical materialism, that the matter produces consciousness. It is not the consciousness which, I mean, collects matter around it. That is their philosophy. That is this dialectical materialism. They are absolutely wrong. They are even further down than the Western philosophers, mental philosophers.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...is already mentioned in Bhagavad-gita.
indriyani parany ahur
indriyebhyah param manah
manasas tu para buddhir...
 [Bg. 3.42]
Dr. Patel: Buddhi tu... Param buddhva? What is called, that...? Samsthabhyam atmana? That mind has to... I mean, isn't it out for itself that it is false? That comes to that.
Prabhupada: Not false.
Dr. Patel: I mean false so far as higher category is concerned, the jiva.
Prabhupada: Nothing is false, but there are different steps. One step is important than the other, but they are not false. Just like the water, the sand, then earth, then the building. You cannot construct a building here. So these are different stages of reality. Jaya. So how many places you have arranged?
Devotee (2): Program? Well, I have arranged two so far. At least, tentatively, Mr. Patel and Mr. Tarachand Gupta.
Prabhupada: Tarachand Gupta is also member?
Devotee (2): Yes, he has taken a room.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee (2): He has a big, a giant bungalow on Altamount Road on Malabar Hill.
Prabhupada: He knows me.
Devotee (2): I think so. [break]
Prabhupada: ...going to the West, and I was collecting some money, this gentleman gave me five hundred rupees.
Devotee (2): Tarachand Gupta. Really? He makes trains, train cars.
Prabhupada: Accha? He has got factory?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: A good business.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Brahmananda: Where is the factory?
Devotee (2): It's outside of Bombay.
Prabhupada: [break] ...at his home, Deity.
Devotee (2): I don't think so. I haven't seen it, anyway.
Prabhupada: No, I went to his house. He worships Radha-Krsna Deity.
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Huh? You know it?
Harikesa: Yes, very well. The grandfather there does the worship, the old man.
Prabhupada: Oh. He is Tarachand Gupta, the old man.
Harikesa: No. There is one older man, or there was.
Prabhupada: So what is the old man's name?
Devotee (2): I don't know. I haven't seen either the old man or the Deity.
Prabhupada: Who is Tarachand Gupta? He is young man?
Devotee (2): A middle-aged man, about fifty-five, sixty.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Sridhara is the only one who's ever gotten money out of Tarachand Gupta.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: No one else has ever been able to get money out of Tarachand Gupta but Sridhara.
Prabhupada: Accha? And before him, I got some money. He gave me five hundred rupees long ago, means before going to United States.
Devotee (2): Giriraja made him a life member.
Prabhupada: No, he appears to be good man. Yes. One day he met me at Hanging Garden, and he requested me that "One day you have to come to my house."
Giriraja: I remember. When we were at Akash Ganga, it was almost fixed up with Madhudvisa Swami, but something...
Prabhupada: So when you go to the bank, I have got some money you can take. [break] What is called?
Gopala Krsna: Wagons.
Prabhupada: Wagons he makes?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: Wagons or bogies?
Harikesa: Freight cars.
Devotee (2): He makes the freight cars.
Prabhupada: Freight cars. That means wagon. [break] The bogies are made by railway company by themselves. It is called bogies?
Giriraja: Yes, passenger car.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Man: Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Brahmananda: [break] He makes railway cars in Bharatpur.
Prabhupada: Huh? Where? Bharatpur?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is in Calcutta.
Brahmananda: Isn't there a Bharatpur near Agra?
Giriraja: Bharatpur.
Prabhupada: Bharatpur. Oh, yes. [break]
Gopala Krsna: India exports to Africa and Middle East countries.
Brahmananda: The bogies.
Prabhupada: How they dispatch? By ship?
Brahmananda: Yes, I think so. I remember reading once, in Tanzania they received twelve bogies.
Prabhupada: Twelve bogies at a time?
Brahmananda: This one shipment.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Jaya. [break] ...has good trade with Africa in so many things.
Brahmananda: Telephones are also made in India. [break]
Prabhupada: ...is taken from the earth. There is no doubt about it. Why the scientists cannot take? This is a fact, that there is aroma, and the flower has taken the aroma from the earth. But why the scientists cannot take?
Brahmananda: They can make chemicals, the flavors. They can make flavors, aromas, from chemicals.
Prabhupada: As good?
Brahmananda: No. (laughter)
Yasomati-nandana: They make a flavor and then say it's a rose flavor.
Prabhupada: That is also not all kinds of flavors.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Yasomati-nandana: I think if they want to produce rose flavor they must use the roses somehow or other. I don't think they can just produce.
Gopala Krsna: They use a little bit.
Yasomati-nandana: Yes. They must use.
Prabhupada: They are taking chemicals, making flavor, and the flower is coming out without any chemical. So who is more artist, better artist?
Brahmananda: [break] ...because they will wilt and die.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Brahmananda: These flowers, they will wilt and die, but they can make flowers that will not die, will not wilt. (laughter) Of course, they have no smell.
Prabhupada: Therefore they make without smell. [break] ...earth is this side and moon is this side, then which is first? Both of them are both sides.
Brahmananda: Yes. The sun is larger in the sky, so that means it is nearer to the earth?
Prabhupada: Yes. Should be. Because you calculate about the stars, very, very far away. Is it not?
Brahmananda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: Then which is smaller is far away. [break]
Yasomat-nandana: ...systems are bigger than the smaller ones?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Yasomati-nandana: The upper planetary systems, are they bigger than the lower ones? In other words, sun is bigger than the earth, the moon is bigger...
Prabhupada: Yes, there is measurement. [break]
Jayapataka: Some people say that "You are coming to India for preaching, but we Indians, we already know all the, about Krsna and Rama. Why don't... You should be preaching in the West, where the people don't know."
Prabhupada: But you know from the Western people. They are not... They are imitating Western people. You know from the Western people; therefore you have to learn from this Western people this also.
Brahmananda: They are learning everything else from the Western people, so why not...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Sridhara: Everyone in India knows the lila of Krsna, but the science of Krsna, that they have forgotten.
Prabhupada: They know lila of Krsna but they do not know Krsna. Huh? Who was...? You were telling that Mr. Bajaj, he wants to take the instruction of Krsna without Krsna.
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then how you will take this instruction when Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]? If they do not take Krsna, then how this instruction will be taken?
Giriraja: It can't be.
Brahmananda: Well, rasa-lila is more important than those instructions. (Prabhupada laughs)
Yasomati-nandana: Actually, the real scholars of Bhagavad-gita, they admit that later on this Bhagavad-gita came out, which was stressing more on bhakti.
Prabhupada: Later on.
Yasomati-nandana: Later on. These scholars, these mundane scholars, those who have studied Bhagavad-gita, they accept that Bhagavad-gita is based around bhakti principle.
Prabhupada: So how it came later on?
Yasomati-nandana: That they are rascal. That they don't.
Prabhupada: And what was the beginning?
Yasomati-nandana: All these Vedas and everything.
Prabhupada: No, Bhagavad-gita? They say, "later on."
Brahmananda: Who was the first...
Yasomati-nandana: He says that it was the Vaisnavites who introduced Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Then why Sankaracarya has accepted Bhagavad-gita? He is not a Vaisnava.
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Then they're foolish.
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Sankaracarya has accepted Bhagavad-gita. Sankaracarya accepted Krsna the Supreme Lord. Sa bhagavan svaya krsnah. He has written...
Yasomati-nandana: It is like that. They think that Sankaracarya also liked Bhagavad-gita, but the personal Krsna was not very important.
Prabhupada: No.
Yasomati-nandana: According to his bhasya, they think like that.
Prabhupada: No, he has written many prayers on Krsna. Bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha-mate. That means those who are not worshiping Govinda, they are mudha-mati. He is addressing mudha-mati: "You rascal..."
Yasomati-nandana: This verse, Srila Prabhupada, vasudeva sata devam, is also written by him?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Yasomati-nandana:
vasudevam-sutam devam
kamsa-canura-mardanam
devaki paramanandam
krsnam vande jagat-gurum
Prabhupada: Maybe, but I do not know.
Yasomati-nandana: Because they say, these mundane scholars, that Bhagavata was after Sankaracarya because he did not write a commentary on Bhagavata. Because there's a mention of Kamsa and Canura and Vasudeva and Devaki, that means that Sankaracarya did believe in the personal of Krsna.
Prabhupada: But Vedavyasa is after Sankaracarya?
Yasomati-nandana: They don't accept it is written by Vedavyasa.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Yasomati-nandana: They don't... They are such atheistic people, they do not accept that it is written by Vedavyasa.
Prabhupada: That's all right, but others accept it.
Yasomati-nandana: Yes, the vast people do accept.
Prabhupada: Vedavyasa is accepted by Sankaracarya. Vyasadeva. Vyasa-guru.
Yasomati-nandana: They think that some Vaisnava wrote it and put the name of Vedavyasa. They are so demoniac.
Prabhupada: Yes, they say like that. Then other acaryas, they are also fools?
Yasomati-nandana: I think they place all the other acaryas after Sankaracarya.
Prabhupada: Acaryas... But their parampara system is very old. (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...Bhagavad-gita? No.
Yasomati-nandana: They don't accept it as... They do not accept Gita as spoken by some person Krsna five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gita or not?
Yasomati-nandana: They say it's a very nice book of knowledge. They don't want to pursue spiritual life.
Prabhupada: Then why they become authority?
Yasomati-nandana: Yes, that is their rascaldom.
Prabhupada: If they do not accept authority, why they become authority? Who will accept them? If everything is depending on mental speculation, then why they should be accepted as authority?
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer. Only insincere people, foolish people, they are misled by them. Otherwise I don't think anybody even knows their philosophy. Everyone knows your philosophy because they see your disciples, and no one goes to read their books. Mostly I see in their books, "First edition, copies, two thousand," "three thousand," something like that. And you never see a second edition.
Prabhupada: [ Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu for the last twelve years he was lying idle, and this time he went, and people appreciated so much he was giving delete.(?) He is advertising like that. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Enlightened Egoism

Perth, May 8, 1975 download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada:What the atheist will say? Has the atheist any experience that any machine works without operator? Has he got any experience?Paramahamsa: No.
Prabhupada: Then why does he say?
Paramahamsa: But this whole universe -- we cannot compare the whole universe with any machine created by man.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Why you bring man? This machine is created and being operated by God.
Paramahamsa: Well, we don't have any experience of such a machine.
Prabhupada: Huh? What do you mean by machine. First of all define what is your idea of machine. Just like the other day we saw, we saw the Thompson place, being printed, being collected, and so many things are being done. It is like this. By machine the seasonal changes are going on, the sun is rising, the moon is rising, the water in the ocean, the waves are there. Everything, machine working. It is machine. Everything being systematically done. Such a big ocean, vast water, it is just on the brink, no more. It is so organized. The sun is rising exactly in time, astronomically. The astronomical watch is one ten-thousandth part of a second. It is so accurate. You'll find everything is going on. [break] Today is ekadasi, eleventh day of the moon, the moon shall be like this. There one can see the moon and he can calculate. "Today is ekadasi." This is not machine? It is exactly, machine.
Paramahamsa: But the thing is this machine is so wonderful that it goes on without an operator.
Prabhupada: That is your dullness! You are rascal, you cannot understand how the machine is working, how big it is, that is your dullness. But it is a machine. Very big machine. You cannot understand -- that is not (argument) that this is not a machine. This is not very good argument, that "I cannot understand, therefore it is not a machine." But you see the idea machine is there already, everything is going on -- machine.
Srutakirti: It is such a good machine it doesn't require an operator.
Paramahamsa: That is the wonder of it.
Prabhupada: No. That is wrong. You cannot find out in your experience anywhere, any machine which is not being operated by a person. You cannot find it. Then why do you bring this idea that without operator it is going on. Where you get this idea? This is a false idea. Because you have no such experience. Where is the machine that "Here is a machine going on without any operator." Find out a machine.
Paramahamsa: We're trying. (laughter) There are some automatic machines.
Prabhupada: Automatic is at the hand of the operator.
Srutakirti: Someone must turn it on and off.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no such automatic machine. It is impossible to prove.
Ganesa: But we can see the operator of these small machines, Srila Prabhupada, we cannot see the operator of this big machine.
Prabhupada: Have you seen the operator in the power house?
Ganesa: No.
Prabhupada: Then? Do you think the powerhouse is going on?
Paramahamsa: Well we could see him. We could go, we could drive there right now and see him.
Prabhupada: Yes, you can see. You can go to Krsna and see Him. That requires qualification.
Paramahamsa: That's not as easy.
Prabhupada: No, it is very easy. It is simply, as we are teaching our students, just become a devotee, offer namaskar, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, always think of Him, and you will go to Him. It is not at all difficult. Bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah. Bahavo, many, did come to Me. How? Jnana-tapasa, by knowledge and tapasya, being purified, they come to Me. Krsna says. Why you are disappointed? You can go. Krsna is open. Te 'pi yanti param gatim. Striya sudra tatha vaisya, even the women, less intelligent, the sudra, vaisya, they can come. Where is the difficulty? Even if you are born very lowest, you can go. Krsna is open to everyone. Simply you become qualified. That's all. And what is the qualification? Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], just always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your respects to Me, and man-mana, worship Me. Four things. That... We are opening this temple (in Melbourne) for this purpose, that you always think of Him, you worship Him, you offer obeisances to Him, and become His devotee. And then? Mam evaisyasi asamsayah [Bg. 18.65], without a doubt you will come to Him. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty.
Paramahamsa: If the operator of the powerhouse, he is operating and running the powerhouse, but it's not really necessary that we go and see him. We can simply enjoy the facilities offered by the powerhouse.
Prabhupada: That's alright, but if you are intelligent enough, if you are a rascal fool, you cannot see, but if you are intelligent, then you'll be eager to: "Who is operating? Let me see?" That is the difference of intelligence. Dull, just like we read one story. One little boy he was beating on a drum. So, he became inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming? Somebody must be within it." He took a knife and cut it. This is intelligence. Wherefrom the sound is coming? He was beating-dum, dum, dum -- he became inquisitive. That is intelligence. A dull student-coming, that's all. And intelligent, he tries to (find out), that is intelligence. Inquisitive. Intelligent boy will always enquire, "What is this, father? What is this father? Wherefrom the sound is coming?" That is intelligence. So, if one is very dull -- just like cats and dogs, they cannot enquire. What is this machine? What is this behind? It is the human form of life -- these enquiries should come. Otherwise he remains a cat and dog.
Jayadharma: They say that they don't accept this body as a machine because they've never experienced a machine that can think, feel, and will for itself.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Paramahamsa: Well they say that this body is more complicated than any other machine because it can think, feel, and will, whereas other machines don't do that.
Prabhupada: But the thinking, feeling, the brain is there. If the... That is the particular machine, because the operator is within. That you cannot see. The thinking, feeling is coming from the operator. The soul is there, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. That these rascals cannot understand, that the thinking, feeling, that is of the operator, not of the machine. Is that clear or not? The operator is within. So the thinking, feeling, as you were asking, that is not of the machine, but of the operator, the soul.
Ganesa: Just like the child, Srila Prabhupada, who was trying to find the sound within the drum, the material scientists are trying to find out the cause and effect of the material world. Is that not intelligence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not reached the ultimate goal.
Paramahamsa: But they are trying.
Prabhupada: They are trying. That is admitted. But, they are concluding that there is no operator. That is their foolishness, because they have failed to find out. They have to go further, further, and see, "Yes, there is operator." That is the final part of the... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam [Bg. 7.19]. So after many, many births of sincere inquiry, when he is actually intelligent, he will see, "Oh, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Here is Vasudeva. He is everything." That is stated. He'll enquire. Go on enquiring, life after life. And then he'll come to understand vasudevah-sa mahatma su-durlabhah. You did not read this verse? They will come, after much trouble, much enquiry, they will come to the same conclusion, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. But they'll waste time. That's all. When we say, "Here is operator," they will not take. But they'll waste time, and life after life laboring, one day they will come.
Jayadharma: Does that mean that everybody is ultimately on the way back home? Back to Godhead?
Prabhupada: Yes, everyone is enquiring, but according to his intelligence, perfection, he is making progress. Everyone. Everyone, because he is meant for that purpose. He has forgotten Krsna, and Krsna is the reservoir of all pleasure. He is trying to find out pleasure other than Krsna, therefore he is being baffled. Unless he comes to Krsna there is no pleasure. That he does not know.
Paramahamsa: We have a saying in the West that curiosity killed the cat.
Prabhupada: Another example as I gave, crying children, child, crying, crying, crying, crying. As soon as he is on the lap of his mother, immediately stops. Why? He can understand, "Now I have got the real thing." Other woman taking, he still continues crying. You have seen it? This is practical. But when the child comes to the lap of his own mother, he immediately stops. Mother also takes care, "My dear child, come." He sucks the breast and is satisfied.
Ganesa: So one day the material scientist after many, many births will come to understand Vasudeva or Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ganesa: They will become devotees.
Prabhupada: But that is their foolishness. We, people, Krsna conscious people say, "Here is your ultimate goal of this science. Take it." That they will not take. That is foolishness. They will come to the same point. But when you offer him, he will not take. That is less intelligent. [break]
Paramahamsa: You were saying that inquisitiveness is the...
Prabhupada: That is human life. That inquisitiveness cannot be found in cats and dogs. That is the difference between cats and dogs and human being. Human being, unless he becomes inquisitive for what is the ultimate source, he is not human being. All these people, 99.9 per cent people, they are not inquisitive. They are searching after some happiness, but they are not inquisitive what is the source of happiness. They are being baffled in the material world. They have, for happiness they have discovered this horseless carriage and so many things, but there is so much unhappiness also when the motor car is crashed between two and life is lost. They are not inquisitive that we have invented this machine for happiness, why this disaster? That intelligence is not. That is it. They are simply going on searching after, but when we say, "No, not in this way, come this way and you'll get happiness," They'll not. That is (inaudible).
Paramahamsa: But if a person becomes too much inquisitive, just like with the boy and the mrdanga, due to his inquisitiveness he ruined the mrdanga, and then he doesn't have any drum.
Prabhupada: That's alright. The drum can be purchased again, but he should be given credit because he is inquisitive. You can purchase another drum, it doesn't matter, but he gets the credit because he is inquisitive.
Ganesa: What about the scientists, Srila Prabhupada? They are very inquisitive, they are trying to find out the cause of the material world.
Prabhupada: That credit we give them. Just like this child. But the childishness is this, that when they are given correct information, they do not take it. (indistinct) If we say to the material scientists that "You are searching after this, here it is, Krsna, aham sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], I am the original source of everything." they will not accept. That is their foolishness.
Ganesa: They are very inquisitive, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: That credit is already given, but you are inquisitive for a certain thing, if the thing is offered, if you do not accept then you become foolish. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19], Vasudeva, he'll come to that point, that Krsna is everything, but when you inform him before that here is the thing, he will not take. That is the foolishness.
Paramahamsa: You were saying everyone is inquisitive for happiness, but shouldn't that be purified? Shouldn't we give up all desire for happiness?
Prabhupada: No, no. Happiness is life. How you can give up?
Paramahamsa: But if we desire for happiness, then we are being selfish.
Prabhupada: Yes, but you do not know where you is your self... [break] ...sense. That is your foolishness. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31], they do not know. Everyone is selfish, everyone is self-interested. But he does not know how to fulfill it. That is foolishness.
Paramahamsa: But isn't it better to give up all ego altogether?
Prabhupada: Why? Why? That is Mayavadi philosophy. We make our ego purified. "I am servant of Krsna." That is wanted. Not that to make my egoism zero. That is Mayavada. They are disappointed, they think finish this egoism. It cannot be finished. Because you are individual soul, it cannot be finished. Simply it has to be purified. I am thinking Indian, you are thinking American. You are neither American neither Indian. We are all part and parcel of Krsna. Direct we have to come to that point. Not to falsely think that I am American, I am Indian, I am cat, I am dog. That has to be finished. But you'll come to the real egoism, that I am eternal servant of Krsna. That "I am" will go on. No that... They are thinking in a way to finish the "I am" or "I am the same." Wrong thing.
Ganesa: Srila Prabhupada, the material scientists are so inquisitive, yet they are leading lives like cats and dogs, how can they come to...?
Prabhupada: Yes, because they are wrongly directed. You are inquiring me, "Sir I want to such and such place." If that place is this way, if I say you go this way. You go this way. Then you'll be baffled, and you'll be unhappy. Wrong direction.
Paramahamsa: But we are taking some direction from...
Prabhupada: That's alright, but if you take wrong direction you'll be unhappy. Your destination will not be (reached).
Ganesa: So how can the scientists arrive at vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]?
Prabhupada: For that he has to take direction from Krsna. Krsna says the destination Himself. He comes and says, "Here is, I am the destination, come here." But if you don't take, that is your misfortune. The direction is here. The perfect director is there, but he's unfortunate -- he does not accept this. Therefore he is baffled. We are... Our propaganda is therefore, that you rascals, all blind leaders, rascals, don't try to lead. Take Krsna's instruction and lead. Then you'll be perfect. This is our propaganda. Leading must be there, direction must be there, but the direction and leading must be perfect, then (indistinct). Or enquiries must be there but if the answers or the leading is bad, then you have to (indistinct). So we should make our enquiry to Krsna, and take His direction.
Paramahamsa: But some people say that the Bhagavad-gita is the direction, and some people say that the Koran is the direction, some people...
Prabhupada: Some people. Many authorities say it is right, and that is your fortune or misfortune. As some people say that it is written by some man or something, then it is not perfect. There are many others also, they say it is perfect. Now it is your choice, whom you to follow. So that some people as they are against, there are for also. Now it is up to you to accept whom. It is up to you. We accept the direction of the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Caitanya. Their word is perfect. They take the direction of Gandhi or this man, that man. Both of them are taking direction, but when the direction is perfect, then you become perfect. If the direction is imperfect, you remain imperfect. That's all.
Ganesa: We can see from the results of those different directions.
Prabhupada: Yes. Results, phalena-pariciyate. That is required. Now there are so many Gandhi-ite students. They have also read Bhagavad-gita, and you have also read Bhagavad-gita. Find out the difference. That is the result.
Paramahamsa: We have heard that Gandhi was a great mahatma.
Prabhupada: You have heard. You have heard so many things. That mountain gave birth to a mouse. You have heard like that.
Paramahamsa: But Gandhi also read the Bhagavad-gita, and he made so many wonderful comments on the Gita.
Prabhupada: That wonderfulness is for the rascals and the fools. What wonderful he has done? He preached nonviolence, but he was killed by violence. That is his wonderful example. He preached the philosophy of nonviolence, which is impossible. Therefore Krsna killed him by violence. This is his wonderful. And his foolishness was proved, that there cannot be nonviolence. So he was a fool.
Paramahamsa: But he himself was nonviolent.
Prabhupada: Nonviol... That's alright, he was a fool. Therefore I say you cannot bring nonviolence in politics. There is no such history. Just like Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent. Krsna chastized him, that you are a foolish number one. So... This is to bring a horse before a cart. Politics and nonviolence, it is incompatible. It is not possible. And he did it. Therefore he was a fool. Just like if you want to cook without fire. Is it possible?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupada: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, "Now I shall cook without fire." You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, "I'll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child." There is no history, and if I say, "Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child." These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man. And if somebody says, now the man will become pregnant, is it not foolishness?
Paramahamsa: But they have made a way so that the women also don't have to become pregnant. This contraceptive, and...
Prabhupada: This is another foolishness. (indistinct) another... [break] This unnatural thing. [break] What is this insignia?
Srutakirti: That is Ford's insignia.
Prabhupada: Ford? This is Ford?
Srutakirti: This is a Ford?
Ganesa: LTD.
Ganesa: Does it mean we should use violence to spread Krsna consciousness then, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No. Yes, when there is politics, that is necessary. I am speaking of politics, not of love. You cannot create love by violence. That is another thing. But if you want kingdom, there must be violence. By violence you cannot force a woman, agree to love you. That is not possible. Then there must be love. The business must be done accordingly. But when there is politics, there must be violence. Otherwise you cannot come out victorious. [break] ...in a friendly way. "Might is right." So Gandhi did this foolishness and he died of violence. (laughs) He praised the philosophy of nonviolence, but he was himself killed by violence. That was his foolishness.
Paramahamsa: But we have seen Lord Buddha, he conquered all of India with ahimsa, nonviolence, Lord Buddha.
Prabhupada: Lord Buddha was not a politician.
Paramahamsa: But he conquered India. He became the most...
Prabhupada: That is another thing. He conquered India. If he con-quered India, why he is driven out of India? Nobody is Buddhist now in India. And in Japan, nearly also halfway, so that is (indistinct). Buddha's nonviolence and Gandhi's nonviolence is different.
Paramahamsa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Gandhi's nonviolence all rascaldom because he was dealing in politics. Buddha never entered in politics. So how you can compare with Buddha? His activities are different. His activity of false vibration(?), to stop all kinds of miseries of material world. That was his philosophy. He never dealt in politics. Although he was a king's son, he never dealt in politics. You cannot... This is foolishness. We do not know. We do not study what is Buddha's position, what is Gandhi's position.
Paramahamsa: But still, everyone in India respects Gandhi so much. They have statues and everything.
Prabhupada: That is another thing. He was a good gentleman. He was very humble, meek. Because you have got some fault, that does not mean you have no qualities. That is another thing. But if you deal wrongly with something, then you must be called a foolish man. You may have very good qualities, but if you do not know how to deal with business, then you are foolish. He was mainly engaged in politics, but he did not know how to deal with politics. He was reading Bhagavad-gita and he was misleading people that in the Bhagavad-gita there is nonviolence. Just see. Because Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent the whole Bhagavad-gita was taught to him, how to become violent, and this rascal said that in the Bhagavad-gita there is nonviolence. It is not false? So a man preaching falsehood, is he a gentleman? Or he is a right man?
Paramahamsa: No.
Prabhupada: So that is his position. Either he is a foolish rascal or he is not a gentleman, falsely preaching Bhagavad-gita. That is his position. If you do not know a subject matter, why do you talk about it? Either you mislead or cheat or you are a foolish, you have no science. Similarly, here is a tape recorder, I do not know how the machine is working. If I talk about it authoritatively is it not my foolishness? I can talk about Bhagavad-gita or something else, but that does mean I know everything about this machine? But he did it like this. He was dealing in politics, and he took up as a mahatma, a religious man. That was his cheating.
Paramahamsa: So because people are so much in darkness about religion, therefore they say...
Prabhupada: Yes, everyone is in darkness. If you can make propaganda, the people will be misled. That is not very difficult. Just like from Russia, nobody is communist. But it is going on -- the Russia is communist country. I have studied thoroughly. Nobody is communist. Maybe a few only. But it is going on by propaganda that Russia is a communist country. The people in general, they are forced to accept it. That book was written by some man, terrorism. It is terrorism. That's it. By force. Nobody accepts this communist philosophy, I have studied. (everyone gets out of car) They were very, very unhappy. The young man cannot go out of the country. Just see. Restricted. How much uncomfortable he is feeling. Especially in European countries, the young men, they want to go. But they will not allow. They will not allow anything to read except Lenin's literature. What is this? Simply suppressing. Everyone is unhappy. Which way? This way? This is their position. I have seen it directly. And as soon as one is suspected that he is doing otherwise, he will be sent to some unknown camp. Nobody knows where he has gone.
Paramahamsa: Just like they had some people who came to Russia to start some Buddhist thing, and then they were sent away to some camp, concentration camp.
Prabhupada: Never seen again.
Paramahamsa: No one has seen them.
Prabhupada: Just see. This is their... It is the most fallen country. No freedom. No freedom at all. Horrible country.
Ganesa: Why don't the people revolt if they're so unhappy?
Prabhupada: Yes, they are revolting, but they are now so much suppressed they cannot... Sometimes there is revolt. Sometimes there is upheaval.
Paramahamsa: Not a big upheaval because they are terrorized. They are afraid that if they revolt, then they...
Prabhupada: They will be killed.
Paramahamsa: Yeah, the government will come out and just shoot them all.
Prabhupada: Yes, all the Leninists and Stalinists, they kill. It is a country of terrorism. That's all. The government men, they are simply terrorists. That's all.
Paramahamsa: Just like in Cambodia they just, the new Communist government, they executed tens and thousands of people just recently.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Paramahamsa: People who were working for the old government. They just killed them all. So this what the people are afraid of.
Prabhupada: Yes. Terrorism. This Communism means terrorism. (aside:) Thank you.
Amogha: I have a garland, but it's not finished. Almost...
Prabhupada: Communism means terrorism. That I have seen. I have studied personally. By threat, by pressure, that's all. Nobody is communist in Russia.
Jayadharma: Is the whole world going to become Communist, Prabhupada? Or is the whole world going to become Krsna cons...
Prabhupada: Nobody is Communist, but if the demons are powerful, they will declare.
Paramahamsa: They will introduce it.
Prabhupada: They will not introduce; they will declare like that, falsely. That's all.
Paramahamsa: Even in some countries where Communism has a very light influence, like in Thailand there's a little bit of Communist influence, when they had a student revolt, the government came in with tanks and machine guns and immediately killed about three thousand students.
Prabhupada: In Thailand?
Paramahamsa: Yes. In Bangkok. That was about two years ago.
Prabhupada: Oh, just see.
Paramahamsa: So the people are very afraid to cause any upheaval. They are afraid that immediately the government will just come and kill them. 'Cause the government has all the weapons. They have the tanks and the guns and everything. And the normal people, they don't have any weapons.
Prabhupada: This is the age of Kali-yuga. Therefore the only shelter is Krsna. There is no other way. In India it's practically dwindling. Now there is no reason they are not sanctioning our temple. They do not give any reason. "No!" Why "No"? "We don't give any reason." And "Kirtana is nuisance, nuisance." They are doing that already.
Srutakirti: Srila Prabhupada? For breakfast just fruits?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Srutakirti: Milk?
Prabhupada: No. You can... Cashew and ginger. And you make, what is called, channa. In the lunch make cheese. Cheese, cheese. Fry it, and make preparation.
Srutakirti: Tomato and cheese?
Prabhupada: Tomato, cheese, potato. Yes. And fried peanuts? And salad, fruit. By force... Communism is going on, by force. It is the result of sinful life.
Paramahamsa: They're put into that circumstance.
Prabhupada: Yes, people are sinful, they will not do nicely, and now, by nature... Just like this child killing. They did it in his previous life. Now he is suffering. He will be killed. The nature's reaction. We are taking sympathy with the child who is being killed, but we do not know that he did the same business. Now he is being killed. That is nature's law.
Paramahamsa: The person who doesn't know, he thinks that the child is innocent...
Prabhupada: Innocent child. He's not innocent. He is sinful. He is being, what is called, chastised. Svakarma-phala-rupa-jiva. That is the word, svakarma. One suffers... (aside:) You can sit down here, just like... Everyone suffers the reaction of his own work. Svakarma-phala-rupa-jiva. Because he is a child, he takes sympathy, "Oh, such a small child is being killed." We take it like that. It is that he is the potent criminal. Now he is being punished.
Paramahamsa: You were saying with all these wars. The people that are being killed are simply...
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore those who are in high standard, they do not take anything as wrong. Everyone is suffering his own reaction. Then bhaktas, they think, tat te 'nukampam susamiksamano bhunjana evatma-krtam vipakam [SB 10.14.8]. When a devotee is in trouble, he thinks that "I am suffering for my past deeds. [break] ...me." That is a devotee's attitude. "Let me do my business, chant Hare Krsna." And then he is sure. Such person is assured to come back. He doesn't care for all this suffering. He thinks, "I am suffering for my past deeds. That's all. Why shall I bother myself? Let me do my present duty, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna." That is the first-class position. He is assured. In spite of all material difficulties, if he goes on with chanting, then his chance is first. That is stated. Daya-bhak. Daya-bhak means he inherits God's property as the son's inherits the father's property. Daya-bhak. So we should be callous with all these political, social... We should simply go on. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He was callous. Family affairs, wife's responsibility, for mother's responsibility for... Nothing. Simply chant Hare Krsna. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's life. Even didn't care for anything, no responsibility. "My only business is chanting." That is... You preach for some time. Then you simply engage in chanting. Preaching means to make him strong, preaching, to become firmly convinced in Krsna consciousness. That is preaching. So when he is firmly convinced, then he can give up preaching and sit down and simply chant. Not in the beginning. That is imitation. He must be firmly convinced. So we have to study Caitanya Mahaprabhu's life. Except -- this is the clear and simple truth -- except chanting Hare Krsna mantra, there is no other business of the human being. So this preaching is also chanting Hare Krsna mantra. This is preaching. That has been shown by all the disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. All the Gosvamis, Haridasa Thakura and others, only did that, how to develop Krsna consciousness, no other business. That is sannyasa. He has no other business. To preach Krsna consciousness, to practice Krsna consciousness, to convince Krsna consciousness, that's all, no other business. We don't take part in politics, sociology, and mental speculation, "science," or so on, so on, all nonsense. We reject, all kicked out. That is the perfection. It is simply waste of time. These are all superficial. Just like waves in the sea. Where is the meaning? The waves are going on. Oh, very nice. You collected all these flowers?
Amogha: Yes.
Prabhupada: Great service.
Amogha: From the public gardens. There is a big public garden.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Amogha: The government plants for the city to look nice.
Prabhupada: But you are stealing.
Amogha: No, not from anyone's house.
Paramahamsa: From the government.
Prabhupada: Very, very nice flowers. Such a big rose I have never seen.
Paramahamsa: In India they don't grow that big. They are very small.
Prabhupada: Nobody takes care. The man also grows very small. There is no food, there is no soil. Poverty lives. Daridra-dosa guna-nase, when a person becomes poverty-stricken, all his quality goes away. He might have very good qualification but if... [break] Unfortunately, being misguided, this position of opulence, they are misusing it, and therefore becoming hippies. Simply misusing it. Instead of utilizing the position for development of Krsna consciousness, they are misusing it. So timely the movement has come to your country. Just try to apply in your practical life, preach all over the world, at least all over your own country. Here also, the Australians, they have got opulence. Try to relieve them. You are American or Australian?
Jayadharma: I'm an Australian, Prabhupada.
Paramahamsa: Australian, he says.
Prabhupada: Australian, that's nice. Learn this art and preach. There is good potency in your country. You are also not poverty. Krsna says, imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Rajarsi means very rich, kings. He never said, "All the bungees understood it. All the wretched class understood it." He never taught. It is meant for the leaders of the society, opulent kings and leaders. It is meant for them. Poverty-stricken man cannot under... But there is no bar, there is no hindrance. But this is especially meant for the opulent person. Otherwise why Krsna says imam rajarsayo viduh? And He instructed first to the sun-god. He is not ordinary person. He instructed later on to Arjuna. He is not ordinary person. Because one important person learns the science, he will preach it all over the earth. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has directly said they are not ordinary persons. So unless one is materially not ordinary, he cannot preach. All the Gosvamis, they were coming from respectable... And where Gaudiya Matha came? These are third-class men, no position in their past life.
Paramahamsa: Most of them just came from the villages.
Prabhupada: That's all. Uneducated, half-educated, poor, poverty-stricken. They could not do anything. Some of our Godbrothers I have beat them. (Like Tirtha) (indistinct). In his previous life he had a big, big business organization. So therefore he has been able to organize. They will admit. They are coming from some third-class status of life. This is not tripe, this is fact.
Paramahamsa: Actually, I noticed that myself so many times in the way you handle money and the managerial affairs, very expert.
Prabhupada: Yes, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's... Sri-caitanya-mano 'bhistam sthapitam yena bhu-tale, svayam rupa gosvami. Who established the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Rupa Gosvami. He was minister. He was not a cultivator, plow department.
Paramahamsa: It's very difficult in Kali-yuga to get the advanced materialists such as ministers and big businessmen...
Prabhupada: You can convert. It is not difficulty. How the Rupa Gosvami was converted? Because the expert man... That person was Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So if you become expert, you can convert. How this governor was coming, how these politicians were coming?
Paramahamsa: Because you're the expert.
Prabhupada: It is not just we. You have to become expert to convert another expert. If you are not experienced, how you can convert others?
Paramahamsa: Is it true that you will end up converting people according to your own..., in other words, you convert people of your own caliber?
Prabhupada: Not own caliber, any caliber. That requires expert management.
Paramahamsa: But if you become high quality or high class, then automatically you attract that type of person.
Prabhupada: Yes. That you can do. You American people, you can do. That I am instructing. You can do. And actually, because some of you will cooperate the movement is going on. Therefore I came to America. When I found that in India no intelligent boys were coming, then I decided, "Let me go to America."
Paramahamsa: Still, even after you went to America and brought back so many European and American disciples, still the Indians are so slow to come and join.
Prabhupada: Because they have been... The disease is very chronic. They are not opulent. That diagnosis already given. They have become poverty-stricken. So daridra-dosa guna nase. Although they are born in India, they have got many qualification, due to this poverty-stricken position, they... Their first business is how to... Because they have got family attachment, so they cannot sacrifice. They will work very, very hard. You have seen how they are going to office, how..., because they have got the responsibility of family. That is Indians another feature. They take family responsibility. In your country there is no such thing. There is no family. There is no family responsibility. In India still that old tradition is going on. Therefore they cannot sacrifice the family responsibility, although they are willing. And the whole thing is it is due to poverty-stricken position. They have got family responsibilities. They think, "If I go, then whole family will starve. How can I go?" That is the exact position. And to come to that stage, that "Let my family starve, I don't mind," that is very higher stage. That is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], "Oh, no responsibility, simply I have got respons..." That is not ordinary stage. You cannot expect these things from ordinary man.
Jayadharma: A person may see somebody do that, may think that they're irresponsible.
Prabhupada: Yes, escaping, so many accusations. But with all these accusations one can do that. There is no harm. But that position is not for all.
Paramahamsa: Due to that poverty-stricken condition, if someone does come to us, they usually want to get something from us.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Yes. You find out this verse, tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer [SB 1.5.17]. Find out first the index.
Paramahamsa: First Canto. Yellow. Yellow.
Prabhupada: Yes. Here, here. Find out this verse: tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi, yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim...
Amogha:
tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer
bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim
ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah
 [SB 1.5.17]
"Translation: One who has forsaken his material occupations to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything."
Prabhupada: That's it. They are thinking, "I am doing my duty," but they do not gain anything. And a person doesn't care for any responsibility; he comes to Krsna consciousness. He gains something. Even if he falls down in immature stage, he gains something. But other man, he is doing his duty very nicely, but he is gaining nothing. You should read the purport.
Paramahamsa: "As far as the duties of mankind are concerned, there are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists, etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment, and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Maharaja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Siva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord. Once engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, one will continue the service in all circumstances. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said that even a small quantity of devotional service can save one from the most dangerous position. There are many instances of such examples in history. Ajamila is one of them. Ajamila in his early life was a devotee, but in his youth he fell down. Still, he was saved by the Lord at the end."
Prabhupada: Even by sentiment one comes to Krsna consciousness, he is not loser; he is gainer. And if one person does not come to Krsna consciousness, he does his duty very nicely, he gains nothing.
Paramahamsa: Due to the so many rascal commenters on the Bhagavad-gita, in India all the Indians have a conception that the perfection of human life is to simply execute one's karma or to do his duty to his family, etc, and therefore they're wasting their time in this way and completely neglecting devotional service. Hare Krsna. [break]
Prabhupada: You bring so many varieties of food: And my duty is to eat.
Paramahamsa: Yes. So...
Prabhupada: So now let me perform my duty. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.