What Devotees Want and Don't Want

Srila Prabhupada speaks on:

 

What Devotees Want and Don't Want

73/01/01 Bombay

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Pradyumna: (reading:) Nectar of Devotion. "This eternal engagement in bhakti-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Krsna consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life free from anxieties and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to bring a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord, Krsna. Generally, neophyte devotees are anxious to see Krsna, or God, but God cannot be seen or known by our present materially blunt senses. The process of devotional service as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status, wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations."

Prabhupada: Yes. The process of seeing God... Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adhah. Atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [Cc. Madhya 17.136]]. Just like a person suffering from some disease, his eyesight is blocked. He has got the eyesight to see, but on account of some cataract disease, he cannot see. Similarly God is there, and I can see Him also. But the cataract of illusion is covering via media between God and me. Therefore in the Brahma-samhita it is said:

premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.38]

That treatment is to invoke your dormant love for God. That is the treatment. We have got love for God. We want to love somebody, either man or woman, even animals. You'll find between the two dogs, there is love. They are jumping over one another, playing very nicely. Sometimes the mother dog is pretending to bite the cub, but it actually it is not biting.

So this loving propensity is there, living entity. Every living entity -- it doesn't matter whether he is man or animal -- the love is there. But at the present moment, it is being pervertedly reflected. Just like love between Krsna and mother Yasoda, that love is reflected here also between the mother and the child, the same love. Because unless there is love in the Absolute, there cannot be any exhibition of love in the relative world. The Vedanta-sutra says, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The, everything is emanating from the Absolute. So there is love. Just like Radha-Krsna love, Kisora-kisori, young Krsna, young Radharani. This love is pervertedly reflected in this material world which is in the name of love, but it is lust; therefore it is called perverted reflection. Lust because the, a young boy, a young girl mix together, they love together, but a slight disagreement, they separate. Why? Because that is not love. That is lust. The lust is going on in the name of love. But the reflection is from there. Therefore it is called maya. The same love between father and mother, father and son, vatsalya-rasa, madhurya-rasa, sakhya-rasa, friendship... Here, we have got friends, but a slight disagreement, we separate. Master and servant -- dasya-rasa. A servant is very faithful so long you pay. As soon as you stop payment, no more service. Finished.

Therefore it is to be understood that the love with Krsna in the platform of madhurya-rasa, vatsalya-rasa, sakhya-rasa, dasya-rasa, santa-rasa, that is the real platform, in the spiritual world. And because the love affairs are there in the Absolute, that is reflected in this relative world. And here is also the same love is there, but it is not very palatable. It is not without any fault. There are so many faults. Therefore real love can be reciprocated with Krsna. In the material world, there cannot be any real love. Therefore the real love cannot be appreciated with our, this material senses. Whatever we appreciate or experience by the material senses, that is not love, that is lust. Motive. There is some motive. One is friend of another person, very intimate friends, both of them have got some motive. As soon as the motive is frustrated, they separate. These things, we find. Even husband and wife, as soon as the sense gratification is disturbed, immediately there is divorce between husband and wife. So... (aside, in response to background noise:) What is this outside?

Devotee: Outside... Next door...

Prabhupada: That's all right. No. Doesn't matter.

Devotee: Shut these doors.

Prabhupada: Therefore we have to invoke our love for Krsna. Then our loving propensities will be actually satisfied. Otherwise we'll be frustrated. Otherwise, we'll be frustrate... That is going on. We may admit or not admit, but this frustration of love affair is going on. So if we... That same thing we repose in Krsna. If I want to love my son, if I accept Krsna as my son... Just like Yasodamayi accepted. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but by devotional service, He agrees to become a son. Just like Yasodamayi and Nanda Maharaja, in their previous lives they underwent severe austerities, and their aim was that "We shall have a son like God, like Krsna." So after their performance of austerities for many thousands of years, when Krsna appeared before them, "What benediction you want?" so they proposed that "We want a son like You. Then we enter into family life. Otherwise not." So Krsna said that "Why shall I get a son like Me? I shall become your son." This is the fact. Therefore, although Krsna took His birth as the son and, sons of Devaki and Vasudeva, immediately ordered Vasudeva to transfer Him to Vrndavana to Yasoda. So the pleasure of having son was enjoyed by Yasoda and Nanda Maharaja, not Devaki and Vasudeva, although they really gave birth to... And when Krsna was grown up, then went to His real father, Vasudeva, and Devaki. So actually Krsna's crawling, Krsna's disturbing the mother, Krsna's stealing the butter, and so many things, as child does, reciprocates with the father and mother, parent, these lila was demonstrated in Vrndavana, although mother Yasoda and Vasudeva, I mean to say, Nanda Maharaja, they were foster father and mother.

So everyone can have Krsna as his sons. Everyone can have Krsna as his friend. Everyone can have Krsna as his master. Dak, dasya-rasa, sakhya-rasa, madhurya-rasa. Even everyone can have Krsna as their paramour. These things are very difficult to understand, but these rasas... They are called rasas. Parakiya-rasa. The parakiya-rasa means just like a man or woman has got his husband or wife, but he has got love with others. That is called parakiya-rasa. That is most abominable in this material world, but that is most first-class thing in the spiritual world. Parakiya-rase yanha brajete pracara. So these things are very higher principles of spiritual life. But we can understand that whatever we are experiencing in this material world, that thing, in its pure form, is existing in the Supreme Absolute. That is the fact. Otherwise they cannot be manifested in this material... Just like on the bank of a tank, pond, there is a tree, and you find the tree just upverted. The upper portion of the tree has gone down. That is described in the Bhagavad-gita. Find out in the Fifteenth Chapter: urdhva-mulam adhah-sakham asvattham prahur avyayam [Bg. 15.1]. Find out this verse. This material world is the reflection, urdhva mulam. Generally the tree has got its root down, but the material world... So... It is described as a big banyan tree, but the root is upwards. Read it.

Pradyumna:

sri bhagavan uvaca
urdhva-mulam adhah-sakham
asvattham prahur avyayam
chandamsi yasya parnani
yas tam veda sa veda-vit
 [Bg. 15.1]

Prabhupada: Yas tam veda sa veda-vit. What is the translation?

Pradyumna: "The Blessed Lord said: There is a banyan tree which has its roots upward and its branches down and whose leaves are the Vedic hymns. One who knows this tree is the knower of the Vedas."

Prabhupada: Yes. One who knows this tree, he knows the Vedas. That means the Vedas says, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. That is the Vedanta-sutra. Wherefrom this material world is coming? That is Absolute Truth. The atheist class men, they cannot think that there is a cause. In the Sixteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita: jagad ahur anisvara. Jagad ahur anisvara. What is that? Find out. Sixteenth Chapter. They say that this material cosmic manifestation, manifestation, this world is... Uh? Uh?

Pradyumna: Could we have the verse again?

Devotee: Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8].

Prabhupada: No, that is the last word. You find out, Sixteenth Chapter.

Pradyumna: Tasmac chastram pramanam te...

Prabhupada: No, no, no. In the beginning. Beginning, read, Sixteenth Chapter.

Pradyumna:

abhayam sattva-samsuddhir
jnana-yoga-vyavasthitih
danam damas ca yajnas ca
svadhyayas tapa arjavam

ahimsa satyam akrodhas
tyagah santir apaisunam
daya bhutesv aloluptvam
mardavam hrir acapalam

tejah ksama dhrtih saucam
adroho nati manita
bhavanti sampadam daivim
abhijatasya bharata
 [Bg. 16.1-3]

Prabhupada: Daivim. These are daivi sampada, spiritual qualifications. And what is the material qualification? Next?

Pradyumna:

dambo darpo 'bhimanas ca
krodhah parusyam eva ca
ajnanam cabhijatasya
partha sampadam asurim
 [Bg. 16.4]

Prabhupada: Asurim. These are the asurim qualities. Read the translation.

Pradyumna: "Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance; these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Prtha."

Prabhupada: Yes. The first word, the most important thing is that ignorance. They do not know actually things as they are, but still they become leader. Andha yathandair upaniyamanam. Then what is their other qualities? Go on.

Pradyumna:

daivi sampad vimoksaya
nibandhayasuri mata
ma sucah sampadam daivim
abhijato 'si pandava
 [Bg. 16.5]

Prabhupada: Daivi sampad. If you acquire daivi sampad, then you become liberated from this material bondage. But if you acquire the asuric sampad, then you become entangled. Go on, next?

Pradyumna:

dvau bhuta-sargau loke 'smin
daiva asura eva ca
daivo vistarasah prokta
asuram partha me srnu
 [Bg. 16.6]

Prabhupada: Now Krsna says that there are two kinds of men, two classes of men. One class, daiva, or demigods, the other class, asura. So "I've spoken many things about the daivas. Now I shall speak about the symptoms of the asuras." What is the asuras?

Pradyumna:

pravrttim ca nivrttim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam tesu vidyate
 [Bg. 16.7]

Prabhupada: Now describe this.

 

Pradyumna: "Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not be done."

Prabhupada: That is the first qualification of the demons. They do not know what is right doing and what is wrong doing. Suppose we, just like we restrict anyone who comes to our camp to become our student, we restrict that "You should not do this" or "You should do this." Anywhere, if you go to a physician, he'll say also that "You shall do this." Some "do's" and some "do not's." So the asuras, they do not know, because they have no direction, they do not know what are the "do's" and what are the "do not's." This is the first qualification of the asuras. They do not know. Because they do not like to take lesson from superior. They manufacture their own lesson. Then?

Pradyumna:

na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam tesu vidyate
 [Bg. 16.7]

Prabhupada: Now... Then?

Pradyumna: Asatyam apratistham...

Prabhupada: This is the... Asatyam... This is the first word. Asatyam.

Pradyumna: Apratistham te jagad...

Prabhupada: Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. This is their first proposition. There is zero, asatyam. (pause) I, I... Asatyam apratistham te. They, they do not find out that there is a cause of this material manifestation. Without any cause. The materialistic scientists say, "There was a chunk, and..." What is that? Chunk theory? Come on. So that all of a sudden the chunk became disturbed and there was... And the creation came into existence. So jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. "There is no God. There is no existence of God." Every religion says... The Christian religion also says, the Muhammadan religion says, the Hindu religion says that God created this cosmic manifestation or this material world. But the asuras will say, "There is no God. There is no creator." Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. Then?

Pradyumna: Aparaspara-sambhutam kim anyat kama-haitukam.

Prabhupada: Aparaspara-sambhutam kim anyat kama-haitukam. Just like a man and woman accidentally unite and there is a child, similarly, there is no purpose. Somehow or other, the material energy came into existence, and therefore there is creation. This is their argument. This is asuric argument, or the demoniac argument. But the Vedas says, "No." Vedas says that janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. There is original. Absolute Truth, or God, is He from (whom) everything emanates. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. And that God must be sentient. He's not zero. Not zero. The sunyavadi. He has got brain. He's person. That is explained. The Vedanta-sutra says, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Now they, that Absolute Truth, from where everything is emanating, is discussed in the beginning of the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Therefore Bhagavatam is accepted as the real commentary on the Vedanta-sutra. Real commentary. Bhasyam brahma-sutranam **. Vedartha paribrmhitam. These are the statements. This is accepted by the acaryas. In the Gaudiya-sampradaya, therefore, the Gosvamis, they did not write any comment on the Vedanta-sutra although other acaryas like Ramanujacarya, Madhavacarya, they wrote commentaries on the Bhagavad, uh, Vedanta-sutra. But our Gosvamis, they did not write purposefully, because they accept that there is already natural perfect commentary written by the same author, Vyasadeva, the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Bhasyam brahma-sutranam **.

So Vedanta-sutra says, answer, the first aphorism is: athato brahma jijnasa. Brahman, the Absolute, that is the main business of the human life, to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Here everything is relative truth. I am the son of my father. My father is the son of his father. His father is the son of his father. You go on. Everything is relative. But who is the Absolute? Who is the Absolute? That inquiry is called Brahma-jijnasa. Who is the original father? Then if you go on searching like that, within this universe you'll find Lord Brahma is the origin. He's called, therefore, pitamaha, Lord Brahma. But if you still inquire further, who is the father of Brahma, then you come to Garbhodakasayi Visnu. From the Garbhodakasayi Visnu, from His abdomen, there sprouted a lotus flower, and (on) the lotus flower, Brahma was born. Therefore Brahma's another name is Svayambhur. He did not come out through the womb of his mother, although the mother was present. Kar..., Garbhodakasayi Visnu, we have seen the picture. Laksmiji is massaging the lotus feet of Visnu, and Brahma is sprouted from the abdomen. So this is called omnipotency. Generally we have got this idea that a child is born from the yoni, but here Krsna gives birth to a child without the help of His wife and from His abdomen. This is called omnipotency. We say, "God is omnipotent," but how God is omnipotent, that we do not know practically. Here is omnipotency. That is explained in the Brahma-samhita:

angani yasya sakalendriya-vrtti-manti
pasyanti panti kalayanti ciram jaganti
ananda-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.32]

Krsna, He can act anything with any limb, part of His body. Krsna can eat with His eyes, and Krsna can hear with His eyes. Krsna can cut by touching. These are there in the sastras. Just like Krsna, when, when entered Mathura, He asked the washerman of Kamsa to deliver some cloth, but he refused. So Krsna immediately cut off his head with His hand without any obstacle. So that is omnipotency. Angani yasya sakalendriya-vrtti-manti pasyanti panti kalayanti... [Bs. 5.32]. Just like we offer prasadam. We offer foodstuff to Krsna. Atheist class will say that "You have offered Krsna this foodstuff, but He has not eaten. It is there still lying." No. He does not see. He does not know that Krsna can eat simply by His glance, by seeing. He eats. Because He says in the Bhagavad-gita that patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati tad aham asnami [Bg. 9.26]. Is He speaking lies? No. He eats, but we do not know His eating process. We compare Krsna as ourself. If one plate is given to me, I immediately devour the whole thing. But Krsna, He is complete. He can eat the complete; still it remains complete. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam eva avasisyate [Iso Invocation].

So in this way we have to understand Krsna from the sastra, from the Vedas. Then we shall understand Krsna. And once we understand Krsna, our life is successful. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah. Anyone who understands Krsna in truth, his life is perfect. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. The perfection of life is that after giving up this body, we shall not accept any more material body. That is perfection. The people do not know that. They think... People, the karmis, they think that "If we get a nice body in the heavenly planet, that is perfection of life." Svargaloka. And the jnanis, they think that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul. But somehow or other, if we finish my body, and merge into the Brahman effulgence, that is perfection of life." The yogis, they think that "We may keep this body, but with this body, if we can play some jugglery, magic, that is perfection of life." Sometimes we see somebody plays some jugglery, magic, little magic, not very nice magic... One cannot show greater magic than Krsna, because Krsna, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill with little finger. So who can show this magic? There are so many imitation Gods, but if I ask him that "You just lift this one hundred kilo burden with your finger," it will be very difficult for him. You see.

So this kind of magic, or this kind of perfection, the devotees do not want. The devotees, they say... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu is teaching us,

na dhanam na janam na sundarim
kavitam va jagadisa kamaye
mama janmani janmanisvare
bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi
 [Cc. Antya 20.29, Siksastaka 4]

This is devotee. Therefore devotee's called akama. They have no demand. They are satisfied in any condition of life. But they only pray to Krsna that his devotion to Krsna may not be disturbed. May not be disturbed. He doesn't want anything in exchange of his devotional service. That is pure devotion. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. When we engage ourself in this pure, unadulterated devotional service, then we qualify ourself to see God. So long we are not pure devotees... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita: bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. And when that stage of bhakti comes in?

brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
 [Bg. 18.54]

When one has (become) self-realized. Brahman, aham brahmasmi. So long we are identifying with this body, identifying with this material existence, bodily, bodily existence, that is animal life. That is not human life. A human being, if he exists in this bodily concept of life, he remains animal. But when he is advanced in knowledge, he understands that he is not this body; he's different from this body.

That we are discussing in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita: idam sariram ksetram iti abhidhiyate. Idam sariram. This sarira is field of activities. One should not identify with this body. So when one actually understands his spiritual position, that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, he's brahma-vatsu... It is not we become Brahman by meditation or by somebody. We are Brahman, but we have now forgotten. Jiva-bhuta. At the present moment, because I'm identifying with this body, I'm thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian, " "I am brahmana," "I am Vaisnava," "I am this or that." No. When we are actually brahma-bhutah, as explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. That is self-realization. When we understand perfectly well that "I am eternal servant of God," servant... I'm not God; I'm servant of God. But one cannot be servant of God without becoming God. That they do not know, the Mayavadi philosophers. Servant... Just like if one becomes secretary or servant of a very big man, he's in the same position. He's sitting on the same place. He's eating the same way. He's in the same atmosphere. So everything is same. Simply the relationship is different. That's all. So when one goes to the spiritual world... Just like the cowherd boys, the gopis, they are on the same platform of Krsna. They do not think that "We are lesser than Krsna." The cowherds boy, they sometimes chastise Krsna. Krsna is obliged to take them on the shoulder. Sometimes. They do not know that Krsna is God, or "Krsna is greater than me." That is the position. Equality.

Therefore Sukadeva Gosvami said:

ittham (satam) brahma-sukhanubhutya
dasyam gatanam para-daivatena
mayasritanam nara-darakena
sakam vijahruh krta-punya-punjah
 [SB 10.12.11]

These cowherd boys who are playing with Krsna, they are not ordinary human being. They are very, very advanced in spiritual assets. Krta-punya-punjah. When they are... Just like you accumulate money. When you have got too much accumulation, ten crores of rupees, like that... When one's pious activities becomes accumulated in voluminous attitude, at that time, one is... That means when one is completely free from the material contamination, brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati samah sarvesu bhutesu [Bg. 18.54]. When one has, one is actually learned, panditah sama-darsinah. A devotee has no distinction between this living entity or that living entity.

vidya-vinaye-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
 [Bg. 5.18]

This sama-darsinah, equality, cannot be possible in material vision. That is not possible. One must elevate himself to the spiritual platform. Then panditah sama-darsinah. That is after brahma-bhutah stage. Brahma bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu [Bg. 18.54]. When one has attained this stage, then he can enter mad-bhaktim labhate param. That is, that is really bhakti's platform. That bhakti platform means elimination of all material contamination.

So one who becomes engaged immediately in pure devotional service, he immediately becomes liberated. Immediately. Without any distant time. Immediately. Tad ksanat sraddha bhavati, sraddha savanaya kalpate. Jiva Gosvami (says) that one who, even one is born in the lowest degree, sva-pacah, sraddha savanaya kalpate, he becomes immediately eligible for performing sacrifices. There are sastra evidences. And Sukadeva Gosvami says,

kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti (tasmai) prabhavisnave namah
 [SB 2.4.18]

Even born in kirata family, the aborigines... They, these, these names are of the candalas. They are not Aryans. Non-Aryans. So kirata-huna... In the Bhagavad-gita also Krsna says, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. Papa-yoni. Striya sudra tatha vaisyas te 'pi yanti param gatim. Immediately. So the devotional service is so nice, practical, that simply if you take to this devotional service, immediately you become sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Then we are describing how to become brahma-bhutah. So brahma-bhutah means,

mam ca avyabhicarini
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
 [Bg. 14.26]

Immediately he's raised to the brahma-bhutah platform.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is so nice that we are trying to engage everyone in pure devotional service. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Pure devotional service means to serve Krsna without any motive. That is pure. Without any motive. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Not by rendering service to Krsna, if one aspires to become liberated. That is the jnani's aspiration. They want to merge into the existence of Brahman. Therefore pure devotional service should be uncontaminated with that jnana idea also. Jnana-karmady anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. The karmis, they want to be promoted to the higher planetary systems, heavenly planet. The jnanis, they want to become liberated. The yogis, they want some mystic power. But a devotee should be free from all these things. No mystic power, no elevation to the heavenly planet, no merging into the exi... Never mind. What Krsna desires, that's all right. He does not dictate anything, or he desires anything. That is pure devotional service. So there are many sastric injunctions. Evam prasanna-mana... So long you have got demand, you cannot be happy. That is one thing. Either you demand to be elevated to the heavenly planet, or you demand to be one with the Brahman, these are demands. Or if you want some mystic power, these are all demands. So, so long you'll have demand, you'll never be happy. You'll never be happy. Therefore Caitanya-caritamrta, Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami sakali asanta. Asanta. Bhukti means the karmis, those who are demanding to, to be elevated in the heavenly planets, or higher planetary system for more, more elevated material happiness, they are called bhukti. Bhukti-kami-bhoga, enjoyment of the bodily concept of life. They are called bhukti-kami. Bhukti and mukti. Mukti means the jnanis, they want to be liberated from material bondage and merge into the existence of Brahman, Absolute. That is mukti. Bhukti, mukti and siddhi. And the yogis, they want siddhi, asta-siddhi. Anima, laghima. They can become more smaller than the smallest, bigger than the biggest. Prapti, isita vasita prakamya. There are eight kinds of siddhis the yogis can attain. But a devotee does not want all these things. He has no demand. These are the three demands: bhukti-mukti-siddhi. But devotee has no demand. That is the special qualification. Devotee never demands anything. Just like Dhruva Maharaja, as soon as appeared Krsna, he said: svamin krtartho 'smi varam na yace [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. "I don't say." So this is pure devotee. And as soon as you become pure devotee, then your love for Krsna becomes actual fact in the spiritual world, and you can associate with Krsna in conjugal love or as parent, or as friend, or as servant, in whatever... Or as trees or flower, as a water, as you desire. That is perfection of life. This is the perfection of bhakti.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Bombay, January 1, 1973

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The Superiority of Devotional Mellows

Srila Prabhupada speaks on:

The Superiority of Devotional Mellows

72/12/28 Bombay

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Pradyumna: (reading) "Bhakti-rasa, however, the mellow relished in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, does not finish with the end of life. It continues perpetually and is therefore called amrta, that which does not die, but exists eternally."

Prabhupada: This is the importance of Krsna consciousness, that in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said:

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer
bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim
ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah
 [SB 1.5.17]

Just like sometimes they say that the, in this movement, just like the cinema, the hippies are joining. Accepting that hippies are... Hippies means they're useless. They are joining. Bhagavata says that those who are very dutiful, they are called sva-dharma nistha. Sva-dharma nistha. According to Vedic culture, there are different divisions of the society. Brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha. So these are called sva-dharma, means, engaged in one's occupational duty. That is called sva-dharma. Or, in the modern sense, somebody's engaged in business, somebody's engaged in other occupation, profession. There are...

Every man has got some engagement. That's a fact. So Bhagavata says that: tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer [SB 1.5.17]. Anyone, even by sentiment, or by any reason, he gives up his own occupational duty and takes shelter of Krsna, or joins this Krsna consciousness movement, tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer... All right. If one has joined this Krsna consciousness movement, doing very nicely, he's improving, that's all right. But if he falls down... Because sometimes they come out of sentiment, join this movement and again falls down. Sometimes. Not very occasionally. But there is chance because maya is very strong. One may fall down. Bhagavata says bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi. He's not mature. In immature stage, by some reason or other, if he falls down, then yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim. Then what is the loss there? There is no loss. Suppose he joined out of sentiment and executed devotional service for some time under the direction of the spiritual master, according to the regulations of the sastras, but incidentally, he falls down. He becomes a victim to the maya. Bhagavata says still there is no loss. There is no loss. On the other hand, a person who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, he has not become a devotee, Bhagavata says: "What does he gain?" One who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, doesn't care for Krsna consciousness, then Bhagavata says: "What does he gain?" He doesn't gain anything. But the, that man who joined this Krsna consciousness movement out of sentiment, but immaturely he falls down, he has no loss. This is the...

Try to understand this. Because this Krsna consciousness is the consciousness of the spirit soul. That is reality. Therefore as the soul is eternally, his advancement in that consciousness, that also becomes an eternal asset. That will never be lost. Even if (he) falls down in this life, he could not execute cent percent the duties in Krsna consciousness, even he falls down, so whatever he has done in this life, that becomes a permanent asset. So that, from next life, he'll be given chance. In... In ordinary karmi's life, there is no guarantee that he'll get next life a human body. According to his karma he'll get a body. Maybe animal body or maybe demigod's body. But there is no certainty that he'll get a human body. But this man, who out of sentiment joined in Krsna consciousness movement, and immaturely falls down, he's guaranteed to get a very nice human body.

That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that sucinam srimatam gehe yogo bhrasto sanjayate [Bg. 6.41]. He'll get birth in a family, sucinam. Sucinam means pious brahmana family or devotee's family. He'll get birth. Or in rich family. The second-class will get in rich family. But both these families will give them chance to begin where he ended his Krsna consciousness in the last life. He'll begin from there. That is his opportunity. Therefore there is no loss. His next life as human being is guaranteed. Even if he's fallen down. But the others, who does not take to Krsna consciousness, doing his own duty, but he will get a body according to his karma. Not... That, that is the difference between the karmis and the devotee. Devotee, even if he is not successful to execute the devotional... perfectly, but whatever he has done, ten percent, twenty percent, fifty percent, that is his asset. It will never be lost. That is being stated. Go on.

Pradyumna: "This is confirmed in all Vedic literatures. The Bhagavad-gita says that a little advancement in bhakti-rasa can save the devotee from the greatest danger, that of missing the opportunity for human life."

Prabhupada: Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Just Ajamila. Ajamila in his boyhood, he was very sincere brahmana. He was conducting devotional service under the direction of his father. But in youthhood, he fell down. He became a victim of a prostitute. He forgot everything. He became a rogue, drunkard, meat-eater, woman-hunter, all fallen down. But at the end of life, when he was afraid of the Yamadutas, out of fearfulness he called for his youngest son whose name was Narayana. Because when you are in danger, naturally... Just like a child, cries for the mother. Because mother is the only... Similarly affection is there. Similarly this Ajamila asked for the youngest child: "Narayana." But immediately he remembered that Narayana whom he served in his boyhood. So immediately the Narayana messengers came and saved him. Svalpam apy. He, he executed very little service in his boyhood as a devotee. That saved him from the greatest danger. He was being dragged out by the men of Yamaraja, but the Visnudutas came and protected him and took him to Vaikuntha. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. By by chance, he remembered Narayana because he executed Narayana's service. Then he was saved. Go on.

Pradyumna: "The rasas derived from our feeling in social life, in family life, or in the greater family life of altruism, philanthropism, nationalism, socialism, communism, etc., do not guarantee that one's next life will be as a human being."

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no guarantee. That... Yes. Now today I am very great leader, minister. That's all right. But after death there is no guarantee that you'll become again minister or big man, big business man. There is no such guarantee. That we'll have to accept another body according to your karma. Suppose as business man, I've done very nicely. I have given in charity. That's nice. You get better life. But for business sake, I have earned money by hook and crook, my mentality's just like crocodile or dog; then I have to become a crocodile. That's all. Because after death you are in the hands of nature. You cannot dictate that "Give me this and that body." No. That you have to prepare in this life. If you prepare yourself in this life to go back to home, back to Godhead, you go back to home, back to Godhead. If you prepare your, this life as a crocodile, then you become a crocodile. So God is very kind. Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. So it is your business to what kind of body you are going to get next. Just like the example I was giving last night. That we are staying in this room, and suppose after a month we have to give it up. So we must find out another apartment. It may be better or it may be lower. There is no guarantee. But if we can arrange, we can better apartment than this. And if we cannot, we may go to hellish apartment. This is the way. But for the devotee, at least it is guaranteed that he gets next life as a human being. Not only human being, but in the family of a devotee, or in the family of rich man. These alternatives are there. Then?

Pradyumna: "We prepare our next life by our actual activities in the present life. A living entity is offered a particular type of body as a result of his action in the present body. These activities are taken into account by a superior authority..."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: "...known as daiva."

Prabhupada: People do not believe this. They think that everything is going on automatically. No. There is everything, account, witness. The Lord...

Devotee: Too windy? (about fan)

Prabhupada: Yes. Anumanta upadrasta saksini. Saksini. The Lord... Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese [Bg. 18.61]. Everything is being witnessed and that is being recorded. So just like in a office in government service, there is service record, and at the end of the year, everything is considered. So the man is promoted, given some bonus on the proprietor or the directors, they're not meeting that man. But the service record is there. Similarly, whatever we are doing, good or bad, that is being recorded and it is examined. Karmana daiva netrena [SB 3.31.1]. We are acting and there is superior authority. They are examining what kind of body he has to get next. So that, that, that science is not being taught, that what is our next body? They are thinking that there is no next body, there is no life, this life is finished. But that is not the fact. As this life I have changed. I was a child, I got next body, I was a boy, I got next body, I was a you, young man. I got next body. Now I have got this body. So now I will have not this body, I will get next body. Where is the difficulty to understand? I've already experienced the next body, next body, next body. Why not after death next body? That the intelligence is to know what is that next body. That is, my, in my hand.

Just like if you become educated highly your next post is very nice. But if you are not educated, then your next post is not very nice. Similarly if you act in this body very nicely, yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah [Bg. 9.25]. So you can prepare your next life. So our, this Krsna consciousness is next life to go back to Krsna directly. That is our program. How? Simply by knowing Krsna. That's all. Krsna guarantees this: janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. If we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, simply try to understand what is Krsna. And He's explaining in the Bhagavad-gita. But if you foolishly misinterpret Krsna, then you go to hell. But if you understand Krsna as Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, then you go back to Krsna. Where is the difficulty?

The rascals, they will not understand Krsna as Krsna says. The rascal will mislead other and mislead himself. He'll go himself to hell and he'll drag all others to the hell. This is going on. This is going on. Everything is there, very plain and clear. One has to act according to that. He gets the benefit. But they, they will not allow. These rascal leaders, they'll not allow. They will be represent Krsna as something else. The, the only business is to kill Krsna. That's all. Not to accept Krsna is fact. All the big commentaries on Bhagavad-gita, you'll see. They're simply trying to make Krsna is not a fact. It is some fictitious. It is some story, mental speculation. This is their business. Demonic. So the condition is very, I mean to say, dangerous. People are being misled.

We are only... It is not our pride. It is a fact. We are the only institution. We are trying to give the greatest benefit to the human society, the Krsna consciousness. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Anyone who understands, if he understands... It is not possible to understand fully Krsna. Krsna is unlimited. But as, as He represents Himself, Krsna, as He says Himself, if you understand... Krsna says: "I am the origin of everything." You take it. Krsna is the origin of everything. He has proved. Krsna is origin of everything. All the acaryas, big, big acarya accepted Him, Krsna is the origin of everything. Arjuna, who heard Bhagavad-gita, he accepted Him, Krsna is origin. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam [Bg. 10.12]. Why we should try to understand Krsna otherwise? What is this foolishness? But that is their scholarship. That is their knowledge. If somebody can most rascal explain Bhagavad-gita, oh, he's a great scholar. Just see the fun.(?) He's the rascal number one and misleading people, he's great scholar. And we are simply presenting Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna says, Krsna says: "Surrender unto Me." We say surrender to Krsna. "These are primitive. These are primitive." We are not scholars. This is, this rascaldom is going on. So you want to save people from these rascals. That is Krsna consciousness movement. The rascals have created a situation by defying Krsna's authority, atheistic situation, the whole world in chaos. That must be. When there are leaders, only demons, how there can be any peace? The people are also becoming demons. So our, this movement, is very scientific, authorized. If you preach, there is no difficulty. As we, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gita, simply Bhagavad-gita as it is, then you are successful and those who hear you, they also successful. Simply method. Go on.

Pradyumna: "These activities are taken into account by a superior authority known as daiva, or the authority of God. This daiva is explained in the Bhagavad-gita as the prime cause of everything."

Prabhupada: Yes. There are five causes. Karta, the, the doer, the place, the instrument, and providence. In this way, there are five causes for acting anything. Just like you are doing business. So if you are a nice businessman, that's very good asset. If you place your business in a market place, there is good opportunity. If you have got sufficient capital, good instrument, and if God is favorable, then your business is successful. Similarly in anything there are five causes. And the ultimate cause is daiva. You may make everything very nicely. You may become, may be very business, a good business man, you have got sufficient capital, you are conducting your business in a very nice center, downtown, everything, but if God is not favorable, then everything will be spoiled. Everything will be spoiled. So therefore this cause, favorable. Of course, God is kind to everyone. But, but we see sometimes that everything is perfectly done, but still it is spoiled.

Just like a man. A man is suffering from some disease, and you have employed first-class physician, first-class medicine, first-class everything, but is still the man dies. What is the cause? The cause is daiva. That in spite of all your endeavors, because God does not like that he should live, you cannot save him. You cannot save him. The same example, again I want to give. That Titanic. They made the ship very strong, and they were so assured that all the big men, they, they were on board that Titanic ship. There was first journey and immediately Atlantic Ocean, they smashed. That's a great incidence. Therefore this is a fact, that you may arrange everything very nicely, according to your best knowledge, but if God is unfavorable, then you cannot do it. Daiva. Na ca daiva param balam. Therefore it is said there is no other superior strength than daiva. One has to accept this. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the, and in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that a man takes his next body by daiva-netrena which means by the supervision of the authority of the Supreme. In an ordinary sense, daiva..."

Prabhupada: Daiva-netrena. So we have to get our body next according the superior, daiva. Superior means God's, God's arrangement. God is witnessing what kind of body I will have. Then?

Pradyumna: "In an ordinary sense, daiva is explained as destiny. Daiva supervision gives us a body selected from eight million, four hundred thousand forms."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: "The choice does not depend on our selection..."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: "...but is awarded to us according to our destiny."

Prabhupada: You cannot say that "I am Indian. I have got my love for India. And I'll get again birth as Indian leader." You, you may get birth in India because you have got strong attachment, but it may not be as leader. It may be as cats and dogs. Or cows or goat. Then you'll be sent to the slaughterhouse, you, even though you are Indian. Or any country, American... So these are simply sentiments. This is, this is, there is no use... But people do not know this science. They think that "I am doing right as philanthropist, as nationalist, as..." But you, he, he forgets that he's under the full control of material nature. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot plan. The ultimate plan is sanctioned by God, or by His agent, the prakrti. You cannot make your plan. You get the result of your present activity. Karma phala. Go on.

Pradyumna: "If our body at present is engaged in the activities of Krsna consciousness, then it is guaranteed that we will have at least a human body in our next life. A human being engaged in Krsna consciousness, even if unable to complete the course of bhakti yoga is, allowed take birth in the higher division of human society so that he can automatically further his advancement in Krsna consciousness. Therefore all bona fide activities in Krsna consciousness are amrta, or permanent."

Prabhupada: Yes. Amrta. Bhakti-rasamrta. (aside:) What you...? Sit down.

Pradyumna: "This is the subject matter of The Nectar of Devotion."

Prabhupada: Go on.

Pradyumna: "This eternal engagement in bhakti-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Krsna consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life, free from anxieties and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord Krsna. Generally..."

Prabhupada: Bhakti-rasa is better than liberation, mukti. Because generally the Mayavadi philosophers, jnani-sampradaya, they consider mukti means to merge into the spiritual existence, Brahman. Brahma-sayujya-mukti, to, to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence of the Absolute. They consider it, that is the highest. And the Buddha philosophers, they think to make all these activities zero, sunyavadi. Dismantle. Because on account of this combination of matter, earth, water, fire, air, ether, this body's made, and the body is subjected to pains and pleasure on account of this mixture. So Buddha philosophy is that you dismantle this mixture. Let earth go to the earth portion and water portion to the water portion. Then there is no existence of the body, and there is no pains and pleasure. Make it zero. This is called sunyavadi. And the Mayavadi, their philosophy is stop this variegatedness. We are suffering pains and pleasure within this material world on account of these varieties. So these varieties, they are on, built on the foundation of the Supreme Spirit. So merge into the Supreme Spirit and get out of these varieties. This is their philosophy. So the Buddha philosophy or the Mayavada philosophy, they're almost one, because their ultimate goal is to make things zero.

But our philosophy is different. Our philosophy is that as there are varieties in this material world, there are varieties in the spiritual world. That varieties. Just like the sky. In the sky, there are varieties. There are different kinds of planets, floating in the sky. Ordinarily seeing, in daytime, we see the sky is vacant. How it is vacant? It is not vacant. It is the defect of my eyes that I cannot see the varieties. The vari... At night we can see the varieties. There are so many planets, so many stars. And each of them full of varieties. Just like this planet. It is, we learn from the sastra. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-kotisv asesa-vasudadhi bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. There are innumerable universes. This universe is one only. And each and every universe, there are millions of planets. And each of them has got special significance. Just like this Moon planet, the Sun planet, this Earth planet, each one has got significance. Here, the bodies are earthly. In the Sun planet, the bodies are fire. Fiery. Similarly in the Moon planet, the bodies are different. Each and every planet.

They do not know. They want to go with this body to the Moon planet. That is not possible. Just like if you want to live in the water with this body. That is not possible. You have to get a body suitable for living in the water. So that you have to prepare. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, yanti deva-vrata devan [Bg. 9.25]. These people are going to the Moon planet. Trying to go. They have not gone. But they do not know that with this body they cannot live there. That is not possible. They are, they might be going to the Moon planet in the deserted portion. And they're coming back. But Moon planet is not desert. We get information. It is one of the heavenly planets. So they, they are not going to the right place. That we have suggested in many places. So anyway, there are varieties. As there are varieties within this material world, similarly there are varieties in the spiritual world. This material world is only a reflection of the spiritual world. So unless we merge into, unless we get shelter in one of the planets of the spiritual world, if we simply merge into the Brahman effulgence, we cannot stay there for long.

Just like in the sky. If you simply fly your aeroplane only in the sky, you don't get any shelter in any planet. You'll have to come back again. You'll have to come back again. You cannot stay in the sky. Similarly those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there because we, as living entities, we want a varieties. Just like when I was, when I was travelling in the... Everyone has got experience. Either sky or on the water. So, and for weeks together, simply water, water. And the, on board the ship, it become very much sickness. Is called sea-sickness. As soon as there is some land visible, "Oh, there is land again." Because we want varieties. So those who are trying to merge into the variety-less Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there. That information we get from Srimad-Bhagavatam, aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanti adhah: After great perseverance, austerity, penances, they merge into the Brahman effulgence, but they again fall down. They again fall down.

So that is not our ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to take shelter unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas [SB 10.2.32]. Simply to concoct that I become, I have become liberated. And, that... Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah. They, those who are thinking that they have become liberated simply by merging into the Brahman effulgence, they are avisuddha-buddhayah, they are still, their intelligence is not very clear, not purified. Why? Now, although they have gone there, and thinking that they are liberated, aruhya krcchrena param padam patanti [SB 10.2.32], they'll fall down. They cannot remain there. Because there is no varieties. And our life, because we are living entities, we want varieties. Without varieties, it is hackneyed. We cannot stay there. Therefore they fall down. Those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they fall down. Go on. Therefore a bhakta does not accept the Brahman, brahmananda. Brahmananda, they know. Brahmananda is, there is brahmananda. That is liberation from the material ananda. But unless one is engaged in sevananda, service of the Lord, this brahmananda will not be sufficient to keep him in the spiritual world. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Generally neophyte devotees are anxious to see Krsna or God, but God cannot be seen or known by our present materially blunt senses. The process of devotional service, as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion, will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations. The senses can then become uncontaminated, being constantly in touch with bhakti-rasa. When the purified senses are employed in the service of the Lord, one becomes situated in bhakti-rasa life and any action performed for the satisfaction of Krsna in this transcendental bhakti-rasa stage of life, can be relished perpetually. When one is thus engaged in devotional service, all varieties of rasas or mellows turn into eternity. In the beginning one is trained according to the principles of regulation under the guidance of the acarya or spiritual master. And gradually, when one is elevated, devotional service becomes automatic and spontaneous eagerness to serve Krsna. There are twelve kinds of rasas, as will be ex..."

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like we have seen, we have experience. Sometimes the car becomes blocked. But some fellow pushes it. We have got this experience. What is called that? Chocked up? Then you get, get down and push the car and (makes noise:) brut brut brut, goes. Similarly the bhakti-rasa is there in everyone's heart. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti. Because we, we are part and parcel of Krsna. Just like father and son. A father and son may be separate for many, many, many, many years. But as soon as they meet together, again the same affection comes. Again the same affection comes. Wife and husband. Therefore sannyasi is strictly prohibited to see his wife. Because there is staunch affection. By meeting again that affection. By meeting again that affection may come. He may fall down. Therefore strictly prohibited. At least, other members can be seen. But not the wife. So the fact is that we have got devotion for Krsna. That is fact. But some way or other, we are separated and we have forgotten. So as soon as, by this regulative principle, by the order of the spiritual master, by the injunction of the sastras, we begin devotional service. That, that, just like our students do here. They are offering aratrika. They're offering dress, offering garland. These are the items of arcana. Hearing about Him, chanting about Him. This devotional service is the pushing process. Pushing process. And as soon as the energy comes, then automatically: (makes noise) clak clak clak. No more pushing. Automatically. This pushing process is required.

So just to invoke or revive the dormant Krsna consciousness. Therefore this bhakti process has to be... And Krsna also says: bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. If we, because the simple process is: if you understand Krsna tattvatah, tattvatah, in truth, then your life is successful. As soon as you understand Krsna tattvatah, then tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. You don't, won't have again in this material world. Don't get any material body. You go back home, back to Godhead. And this tattvatah, to understand Krsna, tattvatah, you have to take to the devotional service. This jnana process or the karma process or the yoga process, it can push you little further. But... Just like if you push the car little farther, but unless the energy of the car comes into action, this car will not go. Simply pushing is not sufficient. The car must come to his energy automatically. Then it will go. So that process is bhakti. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. All right. We shall discuss tomorrow. [break]

Woman: ...in the Moon planet, are there bodies like of a more subtle nature so that if they did go there, they wouldn't be able to see them?

Prabhupada: Eh? No. You can see them. They have got material body.

Woman: We could see them with our eyes?

Prabhupada: Oh yes. Why not? The body... Just like in the water, the bodies of the aquatics are different, but you can see them. Why not? If, if, if it is not visible, how you are seeing the Moon planet? You are seeing the Moon planet. So it is visible. Not invisible. Our point is that these people... First of all, whether they are going to the Moon planet, that is doubtful. At least, I am doubtful. Because we get information from the sastra , that there is a planet which is called Rahu. That is very near to Moon. And that Rahu sometimes comes in front of the Moon planet, and that is called candragrahana. Moon, lunar eclipse. So that, that Rahu planet is dark. So they might be going to this Rahu planet, not to the Moon planet. Maybe. Because that is very near. Moon planet is heavenly planet. Heavenly planet. There, there demigods, they live. So we get this information. Or just like if somebody comes to the, this earthly planet and drops in the Arabian desert, he may conclude that this, is desert. But there is Europe, America and nice cities, and nice bungalows. But he has no chance to see them. So these people are going. They had no chance. Maybe they are also diverting them to the deserted portion of the Moon. They are also intelligent. That "These people are coming from Earthly planet unauthorized. So let them diverted to the deserted portion." There are so many things. So therefore... Because if Moon planet is heavenly planet, they're more intelligent than you. If you have got some machine to reach there, they have got some machine to divert you. Why not think like that? That "These rascals are coming here without any immigration license. Let them be diverted to the deserted portion and disappointed they'll go back." So many things are there. Therefore they are not successful. Neither they'll be ever successful. Take it. I may die. But you take it rightly. They'll never be successful. I have already written these things in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. This is childish. It is not possible.

Devotee: This, is there earth in their bodies or is their body made out of air?

Prabhupada: No. These bodies are five elements. Earth, air, water, air, fire, ether. The subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. So in some planet the earthly portion may be major, the fire portion may be major. In some planet the ether portion may be major. But they're all material bodies. They're material bodies. They're not spiritual bodies. Spiritual body is within. Within the universe, anywhere you go, you get the material body, and according to the body, the duration of life is different. Just like a germ's body. That is also material body. And a human body. That is also material body. But a germ takes birth and dies within second or minute. We live for a hundred years. Both of them material bodies. Similarly Brahma has got also material body. Those who are living in the moon planet, they are also material body. In the sun planet, they have got material... But different varieties. They live ten thousand years of their... Daiva. Ten thousand. Daiva means our one six months equal to one day there. Such ten thousand years, they live. That is calculated in the Bhagavad-gita: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17]. So that is twelve hours. Sahasra-yuga. These four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dvapara yugas, they're forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand. That becomes Brahma's twelve hours. So according to the different planet, according to the orbit, the time duration, the, everything is different. A ant's hundred years and my hundred years not the same. It is relative. Atomic. According to the body, according to the size... The, the world, the scientific world also accepts relative world. Everything is... [break]

As soon as your assets of pious activities is finished, then you come back again. Instead of going back to home, you come back again on this Earth. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Going back. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says: ei rupe brahmando bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva. In this way, we are wandering from one life to another, one planet to another. If one is fortunate, he gets the clue of devotional service and makes his life perfect and goes back to home, back to... Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. "One who goes to My abode, he never comes back." This is the perfection. Doctor, Sir you are a scientist. So how do you think our explanation? Does it tally with your scientific...?

Guest (Indian man): Our science has not come to this stage, to explain all these things.

Prabhupada: Yes. Science has no explanation actually.

Guest: For material men like us it is not possible to accept the Vedas. Because we do not know. I do not see. It may not be there. But all we can say that we are still in the dark or ignorant about the...

Prabhupada: But we have to take knowledge from superior authority. I am always not in knowledge. That is my position. But we take knowledge from superior authority. So we are taking knowledge from Krsna, the most superior authority. [break] ...our Vedic system. It is advised, tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the system. Just like you are a medical man. To acquire your knowledge, you had to accept the medical college, the professors. So this is natural. If we want to know something which is not, or which is unknown to me, then we have to accept a guru, a superior man. Guru means superior man. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Guru means "heavy," or "superior." That is the law. So our process of Vedic knowledge is that we get knowledge from the superior just like Brahma, Lord Brahma. He's the first, original creature, within this universe. And he got knowledge from God, Krsna, the Absolute. The Vedas means the knowledge which he heard... Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. So there is sampradaya. Brahma imparted this knowledge to Narada. Narada imparted this knowledge to Vyasadeva. Evam parampara. That, this is our process of knowledge. We get knowledge from the superior. Everyone gets knowledge from the superior. Nobody gets knowledge automatically. That is not possible. So things which are beyond the perception of our senses, how we can get that knowledge? By our mental speculation, it is not, never perfect. We give sometimes this example: Just like we, if we want to know who is my father, that is not possible to know simply by mental speculation. If we approach the authority, mother, we get the knowledge immediately. So knowledge from the authority is perfect. Knowledge by mental speculation is always imperfect. This is our conclusion. If you get knowledge, any knowledge, from the perfect, that knowledge is perfect. And if you get knowledge from imperfect, that knowledge is always imperfect. This is our process. Therefore the Vedas says: tad vijnanartham gurum eva abhigacchet. One must approach the superior who is in knowledge. Then he gets the knowledge. [break]

...sometimes disagree. But the, our point is very strong, that you cannot get perfect knowledge from imperfect person. That is not possible. That's a fact. You can get knowledge only from the perfect. That is real knowledge. The modern scientific knowledge, taking perfection. The next year, again changes. "This theory is changed." So they, they say that this is advancement. We are making progress. This means that whatever knowledge you are making your basis, that is imperfect. Progress means then you have to go to the perfect. That means the knowledge which you possessed, that was imperfect. Again you say... "So from imperfect platform we are going to the perfect." But if we get from the perfect this knowledge, then we get perfect knowledge, from the perfect person. Perfect person means he does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. His senses are not imperfect. And he does not cheat. This is the four points of perfection. Cheating propensity's there. To the imperfect person, there is cheating propensity. He knows that this point, "I'm not very clear, but still he gives some idea." That is cheating. There are so many... Darwin's theory. Others. "Perhaps, it may be." Like this. These words are there, used. What is the use of this "perhaps?" That means imperfect knowledge. "It may be. There is something missing." So how we can believe all this imperfect knowledge?

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Bombay, December 28, 1972

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Real Liberation Is Bhakti-Yoga

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Pradyumna: (reading:) "...but his whole advancement of material happiness immediately terminates along with his body as soon as his life is over. Death is therefore taken as the representative of God for the atheistic class of men. The devotee realizes the presence of God by devotional service, whereas the atheist realizes the presence of God in the shape of death. At death everything is finished, and one has to begin a new chapter of life in a new situation, perhaps higher or lower than the last one. In any..."

Prabhupada: Yes. Bhagavad-gita, it is said, Krsna says: mr tyuh sarva-haras ca aham. At the... By death, everything is taken away by Krsna. So the modern civilization, they do not believe in the next birth. That is the basic mistake of the present civilization, that we get information that tatha dehantaram praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati. Dehantaram. Just like we are transmigrating, even in this span of life, from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age body. Therefore it is natural to conclude that after this old body's finished, then we get another body, transmigration of the soul. But there is no education, no enlightenment about this transmigration of the soul. But we can, if we think, ponder very deeply on this matter, how transmigration of the soul is taking place, and it is authorized, authorized statement of Bhagavad-gita: tatha dehantaram praptir.

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantaram praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
 [Bg. 2.13]

So this is the defect. The atheist class of men, they also see God. One, everyone can see God, provided he has got eyes to see. Actually, premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are yogis, bhakta-yogis, because they are in love with God, Krsna, they are seeing every moment within their heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Anyone you love, you see always within your heart. Similarly, if you have love for God, Krsna, then you can see Krsna always. That is called yoga system. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginah, those who are yogis, under meditation, they see the Supreme Personality of Godhead within the heart. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah. So there are many evidences in the sastras. Yoga means to see the Supreme Lord within the heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. Isvara, the Supreme Lord, is situated in everyone's heart. One has to see. One has to develop that visionary power, how to see God within the heart. That is wanted. That is called yoga system. Dhyanavasthita. Otherwise Isvara is there in everyone's heart. Therefore Krsna says,

yoginam api sarvesam
mad gata antaratmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah
 [Bg. 6.47]

"The first-class yogi is he who is always seeing Me within his heart." Yoginam api sarvesam. There are different types of yogis. The first-class yogi is he who can see Krsna within his heart constantly, without any cessation. Smartavyam satato visnuh vismartavyam na jatucit. This is the process. One has to observe Visnu within the heart always. Smartavyam satato visnuh vismartavyam na... This is Krsna consciousness. One has to think of Krsna or see Krsna within the heart twenty-four hours. That is perfection of yoga. Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatena antaratmana.

But the atheist class of men, they do not see. They do not like to see. Just like Hiranyakasipu and Prahlada. Prahlada is the son of Hiranyakasipu; a great devotee. And the father is atheist. That is the struggle. This struggle between the atheist and theist, always existing. But God, Hiranya, I mean to say, Nrsimhadeva appeared. Nrsimhadeva appeared for the solace of the devotee, Prahlada, and for the death of the atheist. Both of them saw. Prahlada saw Nrsimhadeva as the most worshipable Deity, and Hiranyakasipu saw the same person as death. Therefore God can be seen by everyone, atheist or theist, but they see in a different way. The, the theist, the devotee, sees God... Just like these devotees are worshiping the Lord, Krsna, that "Here is Krsna, Radharani, and let us offer Him respect by offering aratrika, prasadam." They're seeing also. The atheist will say, "What this nonsense? Some idol they are worshiping." The atheist will see, "What is this non...?" But that atheist will see God at the time of death, when He'll come as Nrsimhadeva: immediately finished. All his assets, finished. With the body, the, everything he has possessed, the family or the house, the bank balance, this or that, everything is finished. Now he begins another chapter. He forgets. Just like we forget at night when we see some dream, we forget our identity, that "I am this. I am that. I am lying on the bed. I've got this good apartment." No. Everything is finished. Again, this, when the dream is finished, we come to another dream: "Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance." This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttime dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krsna consciousness. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he's in the dreamland. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. This is called maya, illusion. Nighttime dreaming and daytime dreaming. The nighttime dream... In this way, we are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. This evolutionary process is going on.

Therefore, therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says,

ei rupe brahmando bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija
 [Cc. Madhya 19.151]

The living entity is wandering in this way, life after life -- sometimes as human being, sometimes as demigod, sometimes as brahmana, sometimes as sudra, sometimes as tree, sometimes as insect, sometimes as fish, so many. Sometimes as birds. And in different planets also, not only in this planet. Brahmando. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, brahmando. Within the universe, he is traveling according to his karma.

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutejya yanti bhutani
mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam
 [Bg. 9.25]

So those who are in goodness, they are being promoted to the higher planetary systems of demigods.

urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha
madhye tisthanti rajasah
jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha
adho gacchanti tamasah
 [Bg. 14.18]

Those who are in goodness of material nature, they're being promoted to the higher planetary systems. Those who are in passion, they are left within this Bhur, Bhuvarloka. And those who are in ignorance, jaghanya-guna-vrtti, they, one who has no systematic life, living like animal, so eating, sleeping like animal, jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah, they go down. This is going on. Out of many millions of living entities, in this way, wandering all over the universe, one who is fortunate, he comes in contact with guru and Krsna. Guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Beginning of devotional service, Krsna consciousness.

So that is real life.

ei rupe brahmando bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija
 [Cc. Madhya 19.151]

mali hana sei bija karaye aropana
sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana
 [Cc. Madhya 19.152]

Just like if you get a nice flower seed, if you sow it and pour water, gradually it will grow. Similarly, this bhakti-lata-bija, if one gets fortunately, through the association of devotees, and if he sows it within the heart and pour water gradually, by this way, sravana kirtana, this process which you are following, hearing and chanting... This is called the process of pouring water. Then that bhakti-lata-bija, that creeper, bhakti-lata, will grow. And, in due course of time, it will give you the fruit. The fruit is to be under the shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is fruit. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In any field of activity -- political, social, national or international -- the results of our actions will be finished with the end of life. That is sure. Bhakti-rasa, however, the mellow relished in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, does not finish with the end of life."

Prabhupada: Yes, this is very important. Whatever we are doing in this life, everything will be finished with the end of the body. My position, my wealth, my family, my this or that -- everything will be finished, because I'll have to accept another body. Karmana daiva netrena jantor deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. This gross body will be finished. I'll have to accept another gross body. But if you begin Krsna consciousness, it will not be finished, because it is the business of the soul. Krsna consciousness means the original consciousness, "I am Krsna's. I am God's, part and parcel of God," this consciousness. At the present moment, being illusioned by different material designations, we are thinking in different way: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brahmana," "I am sudra," "I am this," "I am that." These are all designations. And Krsna consciousness means "I am Krsna's." Aham brahmasmi. So 'ham. "I am as good as Krsna," or "I am Krsna's. I am eternal servant of Krsna." This consciousness is required to invoke. That is the prime objective of human life. Now we are in different consciousness. So bhakti means sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become freed from all these designations: "I am this," "I am that," this bodily concept of life. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. I am identifying myself with this body. This is condemned in the sastra. Sa eva go-kharah. One who identifies himself with this body, he's no better than the cows and the asses. Sa eva go-kharah.

So Krsna consciousness means one is not identifying himself with this material body. He is identifying himself in his original constitutional position, aham brahmasmi.

brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
 [Bg. 18.54]

Mad-bhaktim labhate param. After being liberated from all these designations, one begins his devotional service, devotional life. And Krsna says, "If one wants to know Me, then he must accept." Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. Tattvatah. If one wants to know Krsna, God, as He is, then he has to accept the process of devotional service. Bhaktya mam abhijanati. Evam prasanna-manaso bhakti-yogena [SB 1.2.20]. There is another verse in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: evam prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah. By practicing the bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, bhagavad-bhakti-yoga prasanna manaso, one has to become first of all joyful by identifying himself with the spirit. Brahma bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Then when he becomes joyful, he understands that "I am not this material body, I am spirit soul. I am not American, I am not Indian, I'm not brahmana, I am not this, this, this, so many things... No, I am spirit soul. I am part and parcel of Krsna." This is called brahma-bhutah. Evam prasanna-manaso. When one becomes brahma-bhutah, self-realized, at that time, he becomes prasanna-manaso, joyful. Na socati na kanksati: he has no more lamentation or hankering. Evam prasanna. In this state of life, prasanna-manaso, evam prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah [SB 1.2.20], by practicing bhagavad-bhakti yoga, bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam mukta-sangasya jayate. At that time, one can understand what is the science of God, bhagavat-tattva. It is not a sentiment; it is a vijnana, science. Bhagavad-tattva-vijnana. So who can understand this bhagavad-tattva-vijnana, science? Mukta-sanga. One who is liberated from this material contamination, he can understand.

Therefore devotees who are constantly engaged in the loving service of the Lord, they are liberated. Mam ca avyabhicarini bhakti-yogena yah sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Anyone who is engaged in devotional service unadulterated, without any motive, unadulterated:

anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam...
 [Brs. 1.1.11]

He's liberated. These activities of Krsna consciousness, it is, it appears to be ordinary activities, but that is liberated activity. Those who cannot understand the activities in liberation, nirvisesavadi, they think that in the conditioned state of life, there are activities; when one becomes liberated, he has no more activities, he becomes dumb. No. Actual activities begins in liberated... Just like a man, a diseased fellow, diseased fellow, lying on the bed, he's also eating. He's also sleeping. He's also passing stool, urine. But that is not real activity. When he becomes cured of the disease, come to his healthy life, and then again he walks, he eats, he sleeps, that is another, mean, a position of eating, sleeping. But one who cannot understand the liberated activities, they are shuddered. As soon as they think of activities, they think, "Oh, the activities, they, the..." The same patient who is suffering, for, suppose from birth, he cannot understand that there is activities after being cured of this disease. He cannot understand. He thinks activity means lying down on the bed and drinking all bitter medicine and pass stool and urine by using, what is called, that...?

Devotees: Bed pan. Bed pan.

Prabhupada: Bed pan. He's thinking like that. He has no idea there is better activities, better sleeping, better eating. That he cannot understand. Therefore sunyavadi. They want to make zero. "These activities are giving me so much trouble. Make it zero." Just like sometimes one cannot tolerate the pains of diseased condition. Sometimes they commit suicide -- stop these activities. So the sunyavadi, they are like that -- committing suicide; stop these activities. But they do not know that there is activities. There are... After being cured of this material disease, when one is healthy... That healthy activities are the devotional activities. Therefore Krsna says, mam ca avyabhicarini yogena yah sevate. Sevate means there is activities. It is not stoppage of activities. Sevate. Sevate means giving service. Giving service is not stopping activities. But that is a different type of activities, healthy activities. Therefore Krsna says,

mam ca avyabhicarini
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
 [Bg. 14.26]

He's brahma-bhutah. He's self-realized. Self-realized. That is mukti. Muktir hitva anyatha rupam svarupena vyavasthitih [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti does not mean stopping activities. That is not mukti. That is suicidal. You are living entity. How you can stop? That is not possible. They say that, Mayavadi philosophers, they say to become desireless. That..., you cannot be desireless because you are living entity. How you can stop your desires? But you have to rectify, you have to purify your desires. Now we are desiring simply for sense gratification, to lord it over the material nature. That is your desires. And, and when this desire is purified, then you'll desire that how everything should be engaged in the service of God. Now I am trying to become God, lord it over the material nature, but when my desires are purified, then I shall understand that everything belongs to God; therefore everything should be dovetailed in the service of God. That is liberation. Muktir hitva anyatha rupam svarupena... This is svarupa.

Therefore sunyavadi, or nirvisesa-vadi, they are not liberated. They are still in maya. Vimukta-maninah. In the Bhagavata it is said that they are thinking, concocting that they have become liberated. Actually they are not liberated. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. Maninah. Say somebody thinks that "I'm the proprietor of all the banks." Let him think like that. But that does not mean he has become the proprietor of the banks. That is a different thing. Similarly, one may think that "I have become liberated," but actually he's not liberated. Liberated is he who is engaged in the service of the Lord. He's liberated. Nobody's liberated. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. Just like they are going to the Moon planet. They have got very high speed sputniks. Simply riding on, boarding on high-speed sputnik does not mean he has gone to the moon planet. Actually he has to go there and live there. Then it is successful. But what they are doing? They are going and coming back. They are going and coming back. Similarly, aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanti adhah [SB 10.2.32]. If you have to stay in the higher status of life, brahma anubhuti, then you'll have to come back again. Aruhya krcchrena. Krcchrena means by practicing severe austerities, penances, one may go up to the Brahman effulgence, param padam. That is called param padam. But because there is no stay... Just like in the sky. You may go with high speed, but if you cannot stay in some planet, you'll have to come back again. Similarly, aruhya kncchrena param padam tatah, patanti adhah anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. Because they cannot get shelter under the lotus feet of Krsna, they have to come down again to these material activities. And we have seen practically, so many big, big sannyasis, they give up this material world, take sannyasa to understand Brahman, but because they could not understand Brahman, they again come to open hospital and schools. That is their business. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanti adhah [SB 10.2.32].

But one who is engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, he does not come to these material activities again. The, the factual evidence... Just this, these boys, these European, American boys. Who could enjoy material life better than them? They were all enjoying. But they have given up everything. They are no more going back to that status of life. Param drstva nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. They have found something better. Therefore they're not going to again that life of meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, smoking and drinking. No. They are not, no more going. Give them bribe also: "You come to again to that stage." Will you go?

Devotees: No. No.

Prabhupada: No. They'll never go. This is called liberation. This is called liberation. Simply by thinking, "I have become liberated," and I am handicapped by so many bad habits, that is not liberation. That is simply mental concoction. Real liberation is bhakti-yoga.

Thank you very much. That's all. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Bombay, December 27, 1972

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Pradyumna: (reading:) "...who was later to become Srila Sanatana Gosvami, took advantage of his brother's personal money, which had been deposited with a village banker, and escaped from the prison of Hussain Shah. In this way, both brothers joined Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Rupa Gosvami first met Lord Caitanya at Prayaga (Allahabad, India), and on the Dasasvamedha bathing ghata of that holy city the Lord instructed him continually..."

Prabhupada: Now sometimes it is questioned that Sanatana Gosvami paid the money in black market. Yes. Actually he paid. When the Hussain Shah, Nawab, imprisoned him, he was minister. The superintendent of jail, he was working under him. He was minister. So the Sanatana Gosvami requested him that "I had done so many times your benefit. So you do me one benefit. You let me go. Let me go al..., the, although the Nawab has imprisoned me." (aside:) That's not required. So "I am going to be a pir (?)." Because the Muslims, they respect very much the pir. So actually he was going to be a pir. They renounced the family life and became gosvamis. "So I am sacrificing my life for God, and you just help me in this service. And not only that, you get some material profit also. I have got this, that, about..." First of all, he offered five thousand, five thousand gold mudras (?). But when he was not very happy, then he offered ten thousand. In this way, it was settled and the superintendent of jail let him go. And he inquired from Sanatana Gosvami, "What I shall explain to the Nawab when he'll ask me explanation, call for explanation? You are going." So he gave him a trick that... Formerly, people used to evacuate on the field. So he was imprisoned. So he wanted to evacuate in the field. And the superintendent of jail was accompanying him. In this way, he fabricated story and he told that "When he was evacuating, immediately he jumped over the river and the river's waves were so strong, he was carried away. I could not find him." So in this way, Sanatana Gosvami escaped after bribing.

Now the question is whether this kind of black marketing, bribing, is required for spiritual life. And the answer is that everything is required, provided you can satisfy Krsna. This is the principle. In, according to time, circumstances, the dealing... Just like Arjuna, we have, in the battlefield, there was fighting, and Krsna is advising Yudhisthira that "You go and tell Dronacarya that your son, Asvatthama, is dead." So Krsna is advising to speak lie. And Yudhisthira hesitated: "How can I speak lie? I never spoke lie in my life." So the idea is that our dealings in the ordinary... When there is fighting, in fighting, they take all means, all propaganda, all means, you know that. Fighting, one... The aim is how to own victory. Although there are so many international laws, they don't care for it. Just like bombing. Bombing. Sometimes the opposite party, they keep soldiers under Red Cross, because Red Cross is not bombed according to international... But they, they get information and they bomb also. These are common practice. Just like in India, in the Hindu-Muslim fight, the Muslims were keeping weapons within mosques. You know that. Everyone knows. So there (are) so many international law of the fighting, but when there is necessity, they neglect all international law and they take advantage.

So then... I have heard from a very reliable officer, Mr. MacPherson, in Allahabad... He was my... At that, at that, at that time, I was keeping a drug shop. So he was my customer. And when he was coming, he was talking with me many past stories of the war. So once he narrated... He was also one of the commanders. That the First War, Marshall Foch? He was in Second World War, or First? I think First World War. Or First? I think First World War.

Devotee: First Expeditionary.

Prabhupada: Marshall Foch. He was in charge of the French centers. So the Belgium, there were many refugees from Belgium, most women and children. So they came to France. And in charge was Mis..., Marshall Foch. So this Mr. MacPherson, he told me that "We were officers. We informed that so many refugees have come from Belgium. What to do." Then Marshall became very angry. You see. He became very... "What can I do? In this battlefield?" So it was ordered that they should be killed. So actually it so happened that all these women and children, they were assembled together, and four guns from four sides, they were blown up. You see. Their own alliance. Not alliance, what it is called? Allies, allies.

So these things take place in war, sometimes. There is no international law, no humanitarian... Everything goes on. Everything. Similarly, the point is that as people act, hooks and crooks, everything, for satisfying the senses, gaining some material profit, similarly, if need be, everything can be accepted for Krsna's service. Everything can be, can be accepted. Otherwise, how Sanatana Gosvami is bribing? How Krsna is advising Yudhisthira to speak lie? There is a verse, man nimitte krtam papam punya eva kalpate. Sometimes it appears that this is a sinful act, but if it is done for Krsna, the, our bhakti is anukulyena krsnanu-silanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. We have to satisfy Krsna. "Krsna is asking me to tell lie. Yes, I shall tell lie." That is bhakti. If I consider, "Oh, I never spoken lies in my life. How can I speak lie?" that is not bhakti. Because it is pratikula, against the desire of Krsna. Common people cannot understand this. They'll be shuddered. (aside:) Why one candle is not burning? Get it. You should... They think, "Oh, oh, Krsna is teaching Yudhisthira, such a nice man, religious person, and He's teaching him to speak lie." Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. If sometimes one thinks like that, he becomes mudha. When Karna was repairing the wheel of his chariot, Krsna asked Arjuna, "Kill him immediately. Kill him immediately." And Karna protested: "Arjuna, what you are doing? I am not in fighting now." So Krsna said, "No, this is the time of... Otherwise, you cannot be able to kill him. This is the time. This is the opportunity. You kill him." Because Karna was greater hero than Arjuna. Dronacarya, Bhisma... That is explained by Pariksit Maharaja, that "In the battlefield of Kuru, just like a ocean, and there were big, big crocodiles, animals, like Dronacarya, Bhisma, Karna. But by the grace of Krsna, my grandfather was able to kill them." Arjuna was not so strong that he could kill Bhisma or Dronacarya, Karna. They were greater heroes. So these things are there.

There, there are many instances. Just like gopis. At dead of night, when Krsna's flute was there, they left their husband, left their father, left their brothers, children, everything, and they went away. Now, according to our Vedic system, young girls, young women, leaving the protection of father, brother or superiors, and going in the forest for another boy -- oh, it is very sinful. Socially, it is sinful. And Krsna instructed them, "What you have done? You go back immediately." And they began to cry. That, this description is there. So now, from the social point of view, this is sin. This is sin when the gopis went to Krsna. Similarly, Prahlada Maharaja was standing without any protest and his father is being killed. Now can any sane man see that his father is being killed, and he's standing silently, without any protest? And Bali Maharaja, he rejected his spiritual master. When Sukracarya said that "Don't promise. He's Visnu. He'll take everything of your. Don't promise anything," the Bali Maharaja said, "He is Visnu? And you are asking me not to promise to Him? Oh, I don't want such spiritual master. I reject him." To reject spiritual master is a great sin. So these are, from social point of view, from religious point of view, these are irreligious, sinful activities, to reject one's spiritual master; to see one's father being killed in one's presence; one woman is going to another boy, dead of night. Superficially they are sinful activities. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends, ramya kacid upasana vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita. There is no upasana, method of worship, as it was conceived by the gopis. First class.

So the point is that superficially it may appear sometimes against the social and religious rules and regulations, but if it is done for Krsna, anukulyena... Bhakti means anukulyena krsnanu-silanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Krsna should be satisfied. That is... It doesn't matter. Krsna should be satisfied. Just like Krsna pretended that He was sick, and many physicians came. He said, "No physician cured Me. If some devotee gives Me the dust of his feet on My head, then I can be cured." So all devotees were asked, and nobody... "Oh! How can I give? My dust on the head of Krsna? How it is possible?" Nobody prepared. Then Krsna asked that "Go to Vrndavana. Just ask the gopis if they can give. They are My best friends. If they are prepared? Oh, I am very much suffering from headache." So nobody was prepared to go... As soon as gopis were approached: "Oh, Krsna is sick. They want, oh, dust of...?" Immediately: "Please take. Please take." She did not care that "We are going to hell by offering our dust of feet on the head of Krsna. Never mind. We shall go. Krsna will be happy. That's all. Krsna will be happy." This is gopi. It doesn't matter the whole world is going to hell, but if Krsna is satisfied, a devotee's prepared to do that. That is, that is called uttama bhakti. Anukulyena krsnanu-silanam bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. You'll find, this Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu: anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. To, not to make business with Krsna: "I shall be devotee of Krsna provided my everything is all right adjusted. I shall not be sinful. I shall not do this. I shall not do... My family will be kept nicely. This..." All these conditions. Just as people go to Vrndavana -- all the money distributed. And there are many persons, and the sons and grandsons are all right, that "You send me two hundred rupees per month. And all the two crores of rupees, that is for you. That is for you. That is not for Krsna. And simply for my eating, you send me two hundred." There are many in Vrndavana. So Krsna is also very, that, that "Two crores of rupees you earned, so with hard labor, that is kept for your children. And you have come here with empty hand. And for your food, two hundred rupees." So, ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. No. The first principle is that one should be prepared to sacrifice any, everything for Krsna. Everything. It doesn't matter -- my fate, my honor, my money, my prestige. He doesn't care. Krsna must be satisfied. Just (like) Arjuna did. Arjuna didn't like to fight, to kill, on the other side his brother, his grandfather. No. But when he understood, "No, Krsna wants it. Yes, karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. That's all right." This is Krsna consciousness. No consideration for anything else. Simply to satisfy Krsna. Satisfy Krsna, or Krsna's representative. The same thing. That is bhakti. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Jnana. Jnana, it should be, it should not be tinged by jnana. This is jnana. "Oh, I am going to speak lie. I'll go to hell. I am going to kill my grandfather. I'll go to hell." This is called jnana, knowledge. But the definition is, jnana-karmady anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. It should be untouched by jnana and karma. Untouched. Yes.

So this is pure bhakti. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady... [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. The, the, the gopis, they're not jnanis; they're ordinary village girls. What jnana they have? No jnana, no karma. They did not know what is karma, what is sacrifice. No. They did not know. (aside:) All right, you can close. Close this door. So we should, we should be prepared to sacrifice everything, without any consideration of jnana, karma, yoga. No. We have to see whether Krsna is satisfied. Svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. That is perfection. Samsiddhir hari-tosanam: whether Krsna is satisfied. So people have no information what is Krsna, and what to speak of satisfying Him. That... Who was speaking? That Giriraja. He was talking to Mr. Motta, every so-called learned scholars, they have no, I mean to say, idea what is God, what is Krsna, and where to speak of satisfying Him? But the bhakti means that he, a bhakta, is always ready to sacrifice everything to satisfy Krsna. But if one has no idea what is Krsna, then where is bhakti? For the impersonalist, there cannot be any bhakti because they have no information of Krsna. They do not know what is Krsna. And bhakti means satisfaction of Krsna. If I know the person, if I know what is his nature, then I can know also how to satisfy him. If you have no information of any person, then where is the question of satisfaction? Go on reading.

Pradyumna: "The Lord particularly instructed Rupa Gosvami on the science of Krsna conscious..."

Prabhupada: So here, here the point is that Sanatana Gosvami, Dabira Khasa, he was so mad after meeting Caitanya Mahaprabhu that he, whatever money he had with the banker, village banker, and even it was sinful to bribe, he didn't care for it. He wanted... He re..., resigned his service as minister, Therefore he was imprisoned. Now to get out of the imprison, prison house, he bribed. He was so much ecstatic. There is a verse -- I just now forget -- that this laulyam. This is called laulyam. Laulyam means just like we become very much greedy in achieving some success or receiving something sometimes. We become mad. That is required. Laulyam eka mulyam. To achieve Krsna consciousness perfectly, this ecstatic eagerness or greediness, to serve Krsna, that is the only price to achieve success in devotional service. That is the only price. Not money, not anything. Not prestige, not good parentage, not beauty -- nothing. Simply this ecstatic, intense desire, "How I shall get Krsna?" Then you'll get Krsna. He'll take you. That is the example of the gopis, intense desire. Tatra laulyam eka mulyam. Now, janma-koti, na labhyate janma-kotibhih sukrtinah. This ecstatic desire, that "I, this life, I shall get recognition by Krsna, that I have sacrificed everything for Krsna," this is required. Go on.

Pradyumna: "These teachings of Lord Caitanya to Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada are narrated in our book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Later, Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada elaborated the teachings of the Lord with profound knowledge of revealed scriptures and authoritative references from various Vedic literatures. Srila Srinivasa Acarya describes in his prayers to the six Gosvamis that they were all highly learned scholars, not only in Sanskrit but also in foreign languages, such as Persian and Arabian. They very scrutinizingly studied all..."

Prabhupada: As the English language was compulsory during the British Rule, during Muhammadan's rule, at least all big, big officers, there were many Hindu big officers, they had to learn Arabian and Persian languages. So these Gosvamis, because they were ministers, they were learned, highly learned scholars in Arabic and Persian languages. Go on.

Pradyumna: "They very scrutinizingly studied all the Vedic literatures in order to establish the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu on the authorized principles of Vedic knowledge. The present Krsna consciousness movement is also based on the authority of Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada. We are therefore generally known as rupanugas, or followers in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada. It is only for our guidance that..."

Prabhupada: Rupanuga varaya te. Rupanuga, followers of Rupa Gosvami. We Gaudiya Vaisnavas, we follow the instruction... Narottama dasa Thakura says in his song:

rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti
kabe hama bujhabo sri yugala-piriti.

Yugala-piriti, the conjugal love between Radha and Krsna, it is not be understood by a third-class man. It is not possible. If one thinks Krsna is ordinary human being, Radharani as ordinary girl, then it is not possible. One has to understand Krsna and Radharani through the bhakti literature of these Gosvamis. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura says, rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti. Eagerness. "When I shall try to understand yugala-piriti, the conjugal love of Radha-Krsna, through the literature of Rupa-Raghunatha?" Rupa-Raghunatha means... There are six Gosvamis. Begins from Rupa Gosvami, ends with Raghunatha. Srila Rupa, Sanatana, Bhatta Raghunatha, Sri Jiva, Gopala Bhatta, dasa Raghunatha. There are two Raghunathas -- one Bhatta Raghunatha, one dasa Raghunatha. So Narottama dasa Thakura says, Rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti kabe hama bujhabo... To understand Radha-Krsna and Their love affairs, one has to understand through the literature given by Rupa Gosvami. Just like this Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion.

Pradyumna: "It is only for our guidance that Srila Rupa Gosvami prepared this book, the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, which is now presented in the form of The Nectar of Devotion. Persons engaged in the Krsna consciousness movement may take advantage of this great literature and be very solidly situated in Krsna consciousness. Bhakti means devotional service. Every service has some attractive feature which drives the servitor progressively on and on. Every one of us within this material world..."
Prabhupada: Without, without some attractive feature, nobody is interested. Just like we are talking here about Krsna-bhakti, but people in general, they're not very much attracted to Krsna consciousness. So they do not care to come. There must be some attractive feature. Otherwise... So different people have got different attractive features. Therefore Krsna says,

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascid mam vetti tattvatah
 [Bg. 7.3]

This attraction for Krsna can be developed in the association of devotees, satam prasangat. Automatically, nobody's attracted for Krsna. The whole world is like that. So the Krsna consciousness movement means to give these people a chance to associate with devotees and thus become attracted to Krsna. That is required. Mayy asakta-manah partha yogam yunjan mad-asrayah. Mayy asakta, to become attracted by Krsna. Krsna means attractive, Krsna. Akasatira-sakti. Krsna means attractive. Just like magnetic stone, attractive, naturally the iron... But the iron, if it is rusty, it cannot attract. It cannot attract. Similarly, Krsna is attractive, and we are part and parcel of Krsna. We are also attracted by Krsna. But because we are now covered by the maya rust, we are not attracted. This maya rust has to be polished; then you'll be attracted. Otherwise Krsna is attractive. Krsna means attractive. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Every one of us within this world is perpetually engaged in some sort of service, and the impetus for such service is the pleasure we derive from it."

Prabhupada: Yes. We cannot work unless we derive some pleasure. Just like the, in the Ahmedabad, the dramatic performance, he was killing animal, and he was attracted by killing, that's all. The butchers... I have seen in Calcutta, while passing through, one hotel man was cutting the throat of a chicken, and the chicken was, after being cut, the throat, it was jumping like anything. You see. And he was laughing. He was taking pleasure. It was for me so horrible, but he was taking very nice pleasure: "This half-cut chicken is jumping." And his son was crying. And he was asking, "Why you are crying? Why you are crying?" So it is the question of different qualities. One is attracted, and one, he finds that, that they are detracted. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Driven by affection for his wife and children, a family man works day and night. A philanthropist works in the same way for love of the greater family, and the nationalists for the cause of his country and countrymen. That force which drives the philanthropist, the householder and the nationalists is called rasa, or a kind of..."

Prabhupada: That attractiveness is called rasa, mellow, taste. Go on.

Pradyumna: "...or a kind of mellow, or relationship whose taste is very sweet. Bhakti-rasa is a mellow different from the ordinary rasa enjoyed by mundane workers. Mundane workers labor very hard, day and night, in order to relish a certain kind of rasa which is understood as sense gratification. The relish or taste of the mundane rasa does not long endure, and therefore mundane workers are always apt to change their position of enjoyment. A business man is not satisfied by working the whole week; therefore wanting a change for the weekend, he goes to a place where he tries to forget his business activities. Then, after the weekend is spent in forgetfulness, he again changes his position and resumes his actual business activities. Material engagement means accepting a particular status for some time and then changing it. This position of changing back and forth is technically known as bhoga-tyaga, which means..."

Prabhupada: Bhoga-tyaga. Bhoga and tyaga. Go on.

Pradyumna: "...which means a position of alternating sense enjoyment and renunciation."

Prabhupada: Yes, their position is sense enjoyment. If, by bhoga, they are not satisfied, then tyaga. Brahma satyam jagan mithya. Give it, give it up. Again, by tyaga, when he does not find any sense pleasure, then again comes back: All right, come to social service, open hospital, open the school. Why are you coming again? You have given it up, tyaga, brahma satyam jagan mithya. Why you are coming to mithya again, to open school? That, that is going on. That is going on. Sometimes this is brahma... Jagan mithya, everything is mithya, and Brahman is satya. Aham brahmasmi. But when they cannot get Brahman, cannot realize Brahman, then again come to this bhoga. Bhoga. Pendulum. Bhoga, tyaga, bhoga, tyaga, bhoga, tyaga. You know that pendulum works: (makes noise) kaut kaut kaut kaut. Bhoga, tyaga, bhoga, tyaga. So Krsna says, sarva-dharman pari... You have to give up this bhoga dharma and tyaga dharma. Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. You are now engaged in two kinds of dharma. Somebody, karmis, they are bhoga, bhoga dharmi. They want to enjoy. And tyagi, they want to renounce this bhoga. So both of these will not help you. Bhoga-tyaga. Then what? Seva. You have to take the dharma of seva. That is bhakti. Krsna-seva. For Krsna, you can accept anything. That is It may appear bhoga. Just like Prahlada Maharaja, Prthu Maharaja, they were kings, very opulent kings. Dhruva Maharaja. So still they were great devotees. Not only ordinary devotees, mahajanas. So this bhoga-tyaga has no meaning. It has no benefit. One has to become devotee. Either in the bhoga field or in the tyaga field, it doesn't matter. Bhoga-tyaga is not required. Required service. That service, it may be on the platform of bhoga or service... Service is required, Krsna's service. Krsna has to be satisfied. Either in the bhoga platform or tyaga plat... He does not... Devotee's not concerned with bhoga-tyaga. Devotee's concerned with Krsna's service.

So sometimes... Just like there is example. We asked this question, bhoga-tyaga, to our Guru Maharaja. So... What is the difference...? Just like Rupa Gosvami, he left everything for Caitanya Mahaprabhu's service. His lucrative service, minister post and everything, he re... Tyaga. And Ramananda Raya, he was governor. He was governor and grhastha, and living very luxuriantly. He's bhoga, he's bhoga platform. Now both of them were devotees of Lord Caitanya. So what is the difference? This question was put. So our Guru Maharaja replied: Just like a woman. According to our Vedic system, when the husband is out of home, the women is not supposed to dress herself very nicely. Prosita bhartrka. It is called prosita bhartrka. The system was that one should dress herself in such a way that people can understand what is her position -- whether she's unmarried, whether she's married, whether she's widow, whether her husband is away, whether she's a pro..., she's a prostitute, everything. By the dress one should understand. "She is, she is widow," "She has got her husband," "Her husband is now away from home." "Oh, she is a prostitute," "She's not married." In this way. Because she's not to be asked. Simply by the dress one can understand. So the prosita bhartrka. She does not dress herself, she lies down on the floor, does not change her clothes very nicely, does not dress the, comb the hair, prosita bhartrka. And the same woman, when her husband is at home, she take twice bath and dresses herself, applies oil and very nice dress, ornaments, and so many things. Women know how to decorate themselves. But the... There is no difference. Her not dressing herself nicely and dressing herself nicely, it may be considered that bhoga and tyaga. But either of these positions is for center is husband. Center is husband. Therefore bhoga-tyaga is not consideration. If for Krsna I have to give up everything, I will give up. And if Krsna, I'll have to accept everything, I will accept. This is required. Not the position of bhoga-tyaga, but service. If by giving up everything I can serve Krsna well, I shall give it up, everything. And if by accepting everything I shall serve Krsna very nicely, then I accept everything. That is required. Anukulyena.

Because we have to see whether Krsna wants it, Krsna wants it. Krsna wants Arjuna that "You become victorious in this battlefield and kill all of them." "Yes, I shall do that." Karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. If Krsna would have asked him, "What is this fighting? You give up. Come with Me. Go to the forest," Arjuna would have done that. So our policy is not bhoga-tyaga. Our policy is satisfaction of Krsna. That is pure bhakti.

anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
 [Brs. 1.1.11]

sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena hrsikesa
sevanam bhaktir ucyate
 [Cc. Madhya 19.170]

That's all right. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Bombay, December 26, 1972

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