Not only India -- The Whole World

London, March 11, 1975
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Brahmananda: In your Srimad-Bhagavatam, you write that the sun purifies a dirty place and also the mind.Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: But we don't rely on the sun for purifying our mind.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Brahmananda: As devotees, we don't rely on the sun...
Prabhupada: We have the Krsna sun.
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: What is this, sun? No.
Srutakirti: Spinnery.
Prabhupada: Spinnery. [break] There is no sunshine. It is wet always, just see? Trees also, they have moss.
Brahmananda: In India the sun is very intense.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Brahmananda: Does that have something to do that Krsna appeared there?
Prabhupada: Punya-bhumi, pious land. Still, so fallen, whenever there is a question of spiritual meeting, thousands, lakhs, will come. You have seen Kumbha-mela?
Brahmananda: No.
Prabhupada: You have seen?
Srutakirti: No.
Pusta Krsna: I've seen pictures.
Prabhupada: Very poor men, still, they gather, sixty lakhs, without any advertisement.
Brahmananda: Here you have to advertise to get six hundred.
Pusta Krsna: Or six.
Prabhupada: And it was so nice to live there, spiritual atmosphere, on the bank of the Ganges and Yamuna. Immediately you go, you become spiritualized. Vrndavana is also like that. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, bharata-bhumite janma haila, manusya-janma haila. To get the human form of life born in India, that is a special prerogative. Bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. He is fifty percent-prepared by birth.
Brahmananda: Just by birth.
Prabhupada: Yes. And then, by culture, another fifty percent. But they have given up this culture. But the birthright fifty percent is already also there. Prayaga, severest cold, eh, I took bath in the Ganges. It is simply cutting. But still, they are taking bath and smearing over the body the ashes and sit down, chanting Hare Krsna. No care "Wherefrom food will come? Where...?" No. That's in India still. [break] ...it is also like this, cloudy?
Bhagavan: Just a few months out of the year, January, February.
Prabhupada: Otherwise how we have gone there? (laughter) Africa was part of India.
Brahmananda: The land was together?
Prabhupada: No, there...
Indian man: Geological information it was. It was together. And Australia was fitting in the Bay of Bengal. This is the theory. I learned from my lecturer, Dr. Willinghurst. He told me in my class.
Prabhupada: Because from Bhagavata we understand that the black man who was born out of the body of King Vena, he was thief. So he was sent to the African jungle. Yes. And they are still thief. (laughter) They cannot give up their... Although they have got independence, they cannot give up this habit. (Dog barking) "Best friend."
Brahmananda: Maharaja Prthu also came from the body of King Vena.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: So he stayed in India, and the other, he went to Africa.
Prabhupada: No, he was the emperor of the whole world. But the jungle part... Somebody... The whole world was known as Bharatavarsa, this planet, nine varsas: Bharata-varsa, Ketumala-varsa, Ilavrta-varsa... the whole universal situation is mentioned, where different lands are there. [break]
Pusta Krsna: ...ages, Srila Prabhupada, did the people, in order to get valuable minerals and gold and things like that, did they mine underneath the ground?
Prabhupada: No. There was no need of coal. And the jewelries and stones were received from the sea-pearls, valuable stones from the hills.
Pusta Krsna: So they didn't dig deep holes underneath the ground?
Prabhupada: No. There was no need. The richest persons' property were ivory, gold, marble, valuable jewels, pearls, silk. This was luxury, not plastic. Now they have advanced, they have got plastic, no gold, no silver. Paper money and plastic utensils. This is advancement.
Brahmananda: Do we consider ivory as something pure or impure?
Prabhupada: No, pure.
Brahmananda: It is pure.
Prabhupada: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati laksa na:(?) "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees." On account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Krsna's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Krsna is the richest. Aisvaryasya samagrasya.
Devotee (1): Were all the races originated in India?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee (1): The races were originated in India, all the races, the different races that there are now?
Prabhupada: India what do you mean by? Not the modern India. India was the whole world.
Devotee (1): So all the different kinds of human beings actually were originated there?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...men, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. First, second, third. Then fourth is the sudras. And the fifth, candalas: no Vedic culture. They are candalas. So the Europeans, they were ksatriyas originally. On account of Parasurama's massacre process, they fled from India to European side. And Greece and Rome, they were given -- I think, Turkey also -- given to two sons of Maharaja Yayati. They refused the order of the father. The father was very licentious. So he begged from two sons that "You give me your youth." They refused. So therefore they were banished in this part of the world.
Pusta Krsna: Into England.
Prabhupada: Not England. Greece, Rome, Turkey. Next to India, they were civilized. So European race mostly come from that part. Caucasian. Kasyapa Muni. Central India. Er, central... What is called? Asia, Asia.
Brahmananda: Why it took Parasurama twenty-one times to defeat?
Prabhupada: They were not properly doing their duties. So Parasurama said, "I will kill all of them." Formerly ksatriyas were guided by the brahmanas, even Maharaja Yudhisthira, all the rules and regulations. But the brahmanas were the legislative assembly. And ksatriyas were the executive, and the vaisyas, productive, and sudras worker. At the present moment there is no director, neither executive. Some of them are only productive, and some of them are worker, most of them. Therefore it is said, kalau sudrah-sambhavah. In the Kali-yuga, mostly all the people are sudras. Because they are workers. [ Everyone can be purified, even the candalas. Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah [SB 2.4.18]. Yavanah khasadayah. Yavanas means these European groups, and khasadayah, Mongolian group: China, Japan. So Japanese were there in Vedic age also. Kalayavana. Kalayavana fought with Krsna.
Pusta Krsna: Hare Krsna. (devotees laughing)
Prabhupada: What is that?
Brahmananda: He was recording like this.
Pusta Krsna: No, just the last few minutes. (laughter) I was listening though, Srila Prabhupada.
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, will the Krsna consciousness movement will take over the world eventually?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee (1): Is going to take over the world eventually some time during the Kali-yuga, in this Kali-yuga?
Prabhupada: No, that is not possible, because only the fortunate persons will take.
Devotee (1): I mean, but will the power of the ksatriyas will be in the hands of the Krsna conscious persons sometime during this Kali-yuga?
Prabhupada: Provided you become very expert to preach. Unless you preach, how they will take? [break]
Pusta Krsna: Towards the end of the Kali-yuga isn't there a description in the Bhagavatam that one will not be able to see the sun or the moon?
Prabhupada: During the end of Kali-yuga?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. Because of the impiety. So there will be no vegetation. Is that description in Srimad-Bhagavatam?
Prabhupada: I don't think. [break] ...it is stated?
Pusta Krsna: Well, I had heard -- of course, I'm not certain of the source -- that because of impiety the sun and the moon, people would not be able to see. So there would be no vegetation. And without vegetation, even animals cannot live. So eventually they would take to eating their own children. Is this what takes place?
Prabhupada: Yes, there will be no foodstuff at the end of... That is stated. No milk, no food grains, no fruits, no whatever. Especially food grains.
Devotee (2): There will be some devotees left at the end of Kali-yuga?
Prabhupada: Yes, only the devotees will be left. All others... [break] (loud noise of car screeching.) ...are not very neat and clean. (chuckles) Yes. That means condition is not very good. And it is sound.
Brahmananda: Not in proper repair.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: We had an engagement last night at a technical school after your lecture, and inside the entrance of the technical school in a big glass case they had a big engine from a car, when you walk into the technical school. Mostly Indians, young boys.
Prabhupada: Oh, foreigners.
Pusta Krsna: Yes. [break] So they were very disrespectful actually. But when we started kirtana, the whole atmosphere changed. Do you think that the young Indian boys in the future, they will become anywhere near as pious as their parents?
Prabhupada: Why do you take India? We are talking of the whole world. There is no question of India, Europe, America. [break]
Brahmananda: ...Srimad-Bhagavatam about the kiratas and so on. That means we can go to any community in the world...
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Brahmananda: ...and preach, and some will join.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is actually happening.
Devotee (1): Prabhupada, has there been an incarnation of Krsna outside India, somewhere else in another part of the world? Or does He always comes in India?
Prabhupada: Yes. Saktyavesa avatara, somebody empowered by Him, not Krsna Himself. Just like Christ. Christ is also empowered incarnation. Saktyavesa avatara. Mohammed is also. Anyone who is preaching about God is empowered incarnation. Krsna-sakti vina nahi krsna nama-pracara. That is there in the Caitanya-caritamrta. [break]
Devotee (2): ...that your initiated disciples had some relationship with Lord Caitanya when He was on this earth?
Prabhupada: Everyone has relationship, all living entities.
Brahmananda: He is Visvambhara, means the maintainer of all living entities.
Prabhupada: Yes. Prince of Wales. Prince of Wales, I think this, I think he is dead now. King Edward, I mean to say, George's elder brother? No, not George's. George VI. Is there an elder brother? Edward? When he was Prince of Wales he was actually to be the emperor, or King of England. But he married one common girl, and therefore he was refused. So he, as Prince of Wales, he went to India. And when he saw the bright sunshine, he was surprised. (laughter) Yes.
Brahmananda: He had never seen.
Prabhupada: He, or before him, another prince. Because that Prince of... We were at that time children. So I think King George V, when he was Prince of Wales.
Brahmananda: Oh, when he came to Calcutta?
Prabhupada: Yes. I have seen. We were school children at that time. So on the two sides of the road, our first place was, the king, queen passed, we saw. We were given a flag. (laughter) "Jaya Raja, Rajesvara." We were... And very good tiffin was supplied. Two samosa, two kachori, two sandesa, and one big tangerine. Twice I saw. Once when he entered Calcutta, and again, one day, when there was a parade of military... military parade. So both days we were invited, and we saw the king. [break]
Brahmananda: ...Calcutta, on the Maidan, there's that big building, that big memorial. Is that...
Prabhupada: Oh, Victoria Memorial.
Brahmananda: That was built for, the king when he was coming?
Prabhupada: No, that was built in memory of Victoria. It was done, imitating the Taj Mahal. It took twenty years. Sir Rajendranath Mukherjee of Martin Company, he took the contract. And after finishing, he got this title, "Sir." And when it was being constructed, I went to the top by crossing the scaffolding.
Brahmananda: So you must have been very brave.
Prabhupada: Yes, I am still brave. (laughter) Otherwise how could I come alone to preach Krsna consciousness? I am still brave.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada!
Prabhupada: Some astrologer told that "This boy, for executing his purpose, he will enter into the fire." Yes. [break] ...recently, in our Bombay affair, it was fight with the fire. Is it not?
Brahmananda: Yes. Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: And we have come out victorious.
Brahmananda: Yes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So much obstacle, still going on. Now the governor is cornered.
Brahmananda: The governor of Maharastra.
Prabhupada: Yes, Bombay. If he says yes, that is also dangerous; if he says no, that is also dangerous. [break]
Brahmananda: We do not really understand how demoniac, how calculating, our leaders are.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Brahmananda: We have the impression, because we are taught from the very beginning in the schools, that the leaders are to be worshiped, that their birthdays are to be celebrated...
Prabhupada: Where you are going?
Srutakirti: He's going to pick up that lawyer.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Brahmananda: It is difficult to come to that understanding, that actually, those who are the leaders are not to be trusted.
Prabhupada: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhih. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rajanya dasyu-dharmabhih. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhaksayisyanti praja sarve rajanya dasyu-dharmabhih. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the sudras, they are now powerful. Sudras. Industry means sudra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.
Devotee (2): Even if we present a Krsna conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Krsna conscious.
Prabhupada: Canada we have got already temples.
Brahmananda: Candidate, someone to stand for the election.
Prabhupada: You cannot do anything. Unless you turn the mass of people Krsna conscious, what you will do there? Suppose one man is elected. All demons. What he will do there? Therefore the first thing is that turn the people Krsna conscious, and when they will vote, that is shortened (certain?) Otherwise, it is waste of time. (end)

 

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Must all Devotees Live in Temples

Hawai, February 23, 1975
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Prabhupada: Hm?Devotee: Nature's law?
Prabhupada: Yes, how the nature is working.
Guru-krpa: It's working, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-krpa: Acting under Krsna's...
Prabhupada: Under Krsna's plan. Therefore you cannot violate Krsna's law. As soon as you violate nature's law, then you have to be punished. (pause)
Guru-krpa: Bhagavad-gita, that prakrteh kriyamanani...
Prabhupada: ...gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. Yes, and prakrti is working under the direction of Krsna. That means, nature's law means Krsna's law or Krsna's plan. So what is the Krsna's plan? What Krsna wants?
Guru-krpa: Krsna wants every living entity to come back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupada: Thank you. This is the plan. If this plan is not executed, then there is suffering. So this human life is given to the living entity for understanding this plan and do the needful. If they do not understand, then they are punished. [break]
Guru-krpa: ...today is that because the people have never been given any information what Krsna's plan is, either they're too old or too... They're attached. They can't understand anything. That's the majority of the people. Once they get past thirty years old, it's very difficult for them to accept something.
Prabhupada: No, that is not. Thirty, forty, fifty or one year, that doesn't matter. One can understand if he wants to understand. Ahaituky apratihata. It is not limited by any age. Otherwise how Prahlada Maharaja was great devotee, Dhruva Maharaja was great devotee?
Yasodanandana: I think he just wants to mention that it is more difficult for people who are elderly to understand, those who are more set up in their ways.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That is the difficulty. They are trained up in such a way that it's very difficult to forget what they have learned. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja says, kaumara acaret prajnah, from the very beginning of life one should learn this art of understanding Krsna and Krsna's plan.
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, usually on sankirtana I avoid old people because they just don't understand, and it's very difficult to approach them.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes. Old people should be instructed to forget what they have learned. He sadhavah sakalam eva vihaya durad caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam. This is the formula of preaching. Prabodhananda Sarasvati, he is begging to the people, dante nidhaya trnakam padayor nipatya kaku-satam krtva caham bravimi: "Taking a straw in my mouth, with folded hands and flattering you hundred times, I am submitting one request." "What is that?" This is the process of approaching these rascals, old fools who have learned something and does not like to forget. So he says, he sadhavah: "Oh, you are such a nice learned scholar-devotee, so my request is that whatever you have learned, please forget." Sakalam eva vihaya durat: "Kick them out." "Then? What shall I do?" Caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam: "Please turn your attention to the teachings of Lord Caitanya." He sadhavah sakalam eva vihaya: "You are very great personality. So my request to you: you forget or kick out whatever you have learned." That is the first business.
Guru-krpa: It is a very humble approach.
Prabhupada: Yes. Humble approach for giving a slap, (chuckles) that "You forget everything, what you have learned." First of all, this is the first condition. He sadhavah sakalam eva vihaya durad caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam. We can go this way. This is our business. We know they are all rascals, but they are thinking that "We know so many things. We are learned scholars." So humbly approach them and flatter him that "You are so nice man, such a learned scholar." Just like a child is flattered, "My dear boy, you are such a nice boy. You take these lozenges and return me the hundred dollar note. Don't spoil it. You are such a good boy, yes." This is our... Therefore to approach these rascals we have to learn trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. That is the preaching method. Everyone is puffed up. Even most insignificant man, he is also puffed up: "Oh, I am so rich man, I know everything. I have got so much bank balance. These poor fellows, they cannot earn livelihood; therefore they have become Vaisnavas." This is their policy. [break] You immediately print 100,000, that "Scientific Basis."
Ramesvara: Immediately reprint.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: I am planning to do that as soon as I go back to Los Angeles. And Jayatirtha said you want us to send these to the professors.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: Complimentary copies for them to study that another scientist has accepted your teachings.
Prabhupada: He has very nicely slapped Darwin. (chuckles) He is a mental speculator. How is that, the scientists accept a mental speculator's theory? (pause)
Devotee (2): What is it called?
Prabhupada: Gandharvapur.
Devotee (2): What does it mean?
Prabhupada: Sometimes... Means this is false thing. It appears as a big city. Similarly, this is also. This material world is like that. It is a false cloud only, but we have taken it as fact. Just see, it appears just like big New York City. If you go to the forest, you will find some illusion, that just after that tree there is a big house. Have you experienced that?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: That is called Gandharvapur. So if anyone wants to enter that big city, then what is his position?
Devotee (2): Illusion.
Prabhupada: The same thing: the conditioned soul enters the big city of material world, and he struggles. (pause)
Ramesvara: I have heard there is a philosophy here amongst some of the devotees that if you chant Hare Krsna, you can go back to the spiritual world even if you do not give up your independence.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Ramesvara: Many devotees who have moved outside of the temple are feeling that if they just continue to chant Hare Krsna, they can go back to the spiritual world, but they are not giving up their independence.
Prabhupada: So? What is your philosophy?
Ramesvara: Well, it seems somewhat hypocritical because chanting Hare Krsna means you are praying to Krsna to please be engaged eternally in His service and to become completely dependent on Him. So we try to explain like that. And to follow all the teachings and instructions, attending mangala aratik and morning and evening class.
Prabhupada: So they are doing that or not?
Guru-krpa: No. They are not even following regulative principles.
Prabhupada: Then?
Ramesvara: They think just by chanting, they will go back to the spiritual world. That is enough.
Prabhupada: Then what is the meaning of the ten kinds of offenses? If he is chanting without offense, then it is all right, but if he is committing offenses, it will not be effective. There are ten kinds of offenses. Whether he is strictly offenseless? Then it is all right. If he is offender, then it will not be fruitful. It will be fruitful; it will take long time because first of all you have to become offenseless. Then you will be admitted. (aside:) Don't come very near. That's it. So they are committing offenses, so how they can become perfect? He is committing not following the rules and regulation. That means he is thinking that "Whatever I do, it will be adjusted by chanting the name." Is it not?
Guru-krpa: Yes. That's one of the offenses.
Ramesvara: That is their philosophy.
Prabhupada: That is their philosophy. That is the greatest offense, namnad balad yasya hi papa-buddhih, that "I can go on committing sinful activity, but by chanting Hare Krsna mantra, it will be adjusted." That is the greatest offense. So explain to them.
Guru-krpa: So they say, "Then my chanting is useless? So I should stop?" That's what they say.
Prabhupada: No, not useless. But just like if you kindle fire and at the same time pour water, it will take long time. To kindle fire, make it dry, keep it dry. Then it will be very quickly successful. So you are committing offenses, at the same time chanting, so by chanting effect, you will come to that stage, but it will take time. If you want to be transferred to the spiritual world quickly, just like if you want to ignite the fire very quickly, you must keep it dry. If you simply put on the wet wood, then the fire will not be very powerful. It will be... It will take time. The fire will be blazing fire. Then it will dry. It will take... Better put dry wood to make it successful. This is the process. The effect of chanting Hare Krsna will not go in vain, but it will take time. Namnad balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. Because he is thinking "By the strength of chanting Hare Krsna mantra, I can do anything, all sinful activities, and it will be adjusted," that is the greatest offense, not only offense, the greatest offense. Namnad balad yasya hi papa-buddhih.
Siddha-svarupa: It is very difficult to put everyone who is living outside of the temple in one category. Some people, they are, many people that I know living outside are following strictly the regulative principles, and they are...
Prabhupada: Huh?
Siddha-svarupa: They are strictly following regulative principles and chanting their rounds and having morning aratik in their homes. And evening also, they are chanting. So instead of fighting, I think we should only try to encourage everybody to chant and follow the regulative principles.
Prabhupada: No, that is... Whether you live in temple or outside temple, the rules and regulation and the process must be followed. Then you are successful. It doesn't matter that you have to live in the temple. Grhe thako vane thako, 'ha gauranga' bo'le dako. Not that everyone has to live in the temple. If he does not agree with other Godbrothers, friends, he can live separately. But he must follow the rules and regulation. That is wanted. But if you live with devotees, it will be automatically done.
Siddha-svarupa: Easy.
Prabhupada: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta. Papi jane aparadha achaya pracura. Papi jane aparadha achaya... Offenseless chanting is the ultimate goal. In the beginning we are not offenseless, but by chanting, chanting, by practice, we gradually become offenseless. But this is necessary, that you should be offenseless.
Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupada, it's very difficult to control my mind when I chant. It wanders.
Prabhupada: So what is the controlling of mind? You have to chant and hear, that's all. You have to chant with your tongue, and the sound you hear, that's all. What is the question of mind?
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, it seems unfortunate that if the devotees cannot live in the temples, then they have to work for some karmi just to support themselves, and then they do not have time to go on the sankirtana party. So it is such mercy to be on the sankirtana party. So it seems very unfortunate that they do not have the time.
Prabhupada: No, then they should live in the temple if they want to give service in the sankirtana party.
Ramesvara: We always try to encourage them to come back to the temple.
Prabhupada: Yes. If he does not join the sankirtana party, that does not mean his spiritual life is hampered. He has to follow the rules and regulation. He may not be able to join the sankirtana party, but he must follow the process, rules and regulation. That is wanted. And because he is living outside the temple, therefore he will forget all rules and regulation and do whatever he likes -- then it will ruin the whole thing.
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, is it faster if one lives in the temple and goes on the sankirtana party. Is it faster?
Prabhupada: That depends on him. Even in the temple, if his mind is in a different subject matter, then how it will help him?
Bali Mardana: The temple authorities like to preach that anyone who's living outside the temple is going to hell.
Prabhupada: Generally.
Bali Mardana: But even devotees who are following. They like to preach that.
Prabhupada: No, that is not. That is not. Just like even in ordinary business, if you transact business in the stock association, you get good business. And outside the stock association you don't get. Because association is there, there are many purchaser and many seller. So if you have to sell, you get immediate purchaser. And if you have to purchase, there is immediate seller. That is... Therefore the stock exchange is there. That is the way, that if we live together in the stock exchange of devotional service, then you can help me; I can help you. So our business will go on nicely. And outside the market, you can live three hundred miles away from the stock exchange. You will not get so many business. Like that.
Devotee (2): You'll miss the opportunities.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore it is helpful. If you want to do business, you must take the first opportunity, the greatest opportunity, do your business. That is intelligence. And if we think, "All right, I shall do slowly. In seven hundred lives I shall become perfect," that is another thing.
Bali Mardana: It is riskier to stay outside.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Otherwise why you are opening so many centers and making arrangement that "We shall provide you with shelter, with food. These are the facilities. You live here, do whatever is your capacity. Don't sleep, but work." This is our teaching. Satam prasangat, this is also, and Rupa Gosvami says, sato vrtteh sadhu-sange sadbhir bhaktih prasidhyati: "If you live with the association of sadhu, devotee, then it will be quickly fruitful." And if you live with these ordinary men, then whatever you have got will be finished very soon. There is another verse. It is said there that it is preferred to live within the cage surrounded by fire than to live with the nondevotees. It is preferred.
Bali Mardana: Or with those who are too much attached to women also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nondevotee means too much attached to woman. That is the plain fact.
Yasodanandana: Also one time in Bombay you told this verse from Caitanya-caritamrta, sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83], sadhu-sanga...
Prabhupada: Sarva-sastre kaya, lava-matra sadhu-sange sarva-siddhi haya [Cc. Madhya 22.54]. For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more. It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction, that's all, although I was a grhastha.
Bali Mardana: You are a much better student than us.
Prabhupada: So this is the process. That is the... You sing every day. Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya **. That is the process. Wherever you live, if you follow strictly the instruction of guru, then you remain perfect. But if we create, concoct ideas against the instruction of guru, then we are doomed, hell. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi **. There is no more shelter, finished. Yasya prasadat. If guru thinks that "This person, I wanted to take him back to home, back to Godhead. Now he is going against me. He is not following," aprasadat, he is displeased, then everything is finished.
Bali Mardana: Vaisnavaparadha.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, where does someone derive his authority...
Prabhupada: The guru is authority.
Devotee (1): No, I know, but for his actions other than just following the four regulative principles and chanting sixteen rounds. He does so many other things during the day. Where does he derive his authority if he's not, let's say, living in the temple?
Prabhupada: I do not follow. The authority is guru. You have accepted.
Bali Mardana: For everything.
Jayatirtha: Say I have some outside job, I'm living outside, but I'm not giving 50% of my income. So then that work that I'm doing, is it actually under the authority of the guru?
Prabhupada: Then you are not following the instruction of guru. That is plain fact.
Jayatirtha: So that means that whole activity during the day, working, that means I am not following the instruction of the guru. It's unauthorized activity.
Prabhupada: Yes. If you don't follow the instruction of guru, then you are fallen down immediately. That is the way. Otherwise why you sing, yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado **. It is my duty to satisfy guru. Otherwise I am nowhere. So if you prefer to be nowhere, then you disobey as you like. But if you want to be steady in your position, then you have to follow strictly the instruction of guru.
Devotee (1): We can understand all of your instructions simply by reading your books.
Prabhupada: Yes. Anyway, follow the instruction. That is required. Follow the instruction. Wherever you remain, it doesn't matter. You are secure. Follow the instruction. Then you are secure anywhere. It doesn't matter. Just like I told you that I saw my Guru Maharaja not more than ten days in my life, but I followed his instruction. I was a grhastha, I never lived with the Matha, in the temple. It is practical. So many Godbrothers recommended that "He should be in charge in this Bombay temple, this, that, that..." Guru Maharaja said, "Yes, better he lives outside. That is good, and he will do what is needed in due course of time."
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Prabhupada: He said like that. I could not understand at that time what does he expect. Of course, I knew that he wanted me to preach.
Yasodanandana: I think you have done this in grand style.
Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupada! Haribol!
Prabhupada: Yes, done grand style because I strictly follow the instruction of my Guru Maharaja, that's all. Otherwise I have no strength. I have not played any magic. Did I? Any gold manufacturing? (laughter) Still, I have got better disciples than the gold-manufacturing guru.
Yasodanandana: Before you came, many gurus came, but they did not make any pure devotee of Krsna.
Prabhupada: How they can? He is not pure devotee of Krsna. How he can do? Krsna-sakti vina nahe nama pracara: "Without being empowered by Krsna nobody can turn a person to become devotee of Krsna." It is not... Artificially, you cannot make. He may make show of gold manufacturing, but he cannot make a devotee of Krsna. That is not possible.
Jayatirtha: So the purpose of having the Society is to show the devotees how they can always be twenty-four hours engaged according to your instruction.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise. So somehow or other, we have got now a position. People likes us. So we should not spoil by personal sense gratification. That is my request. If we can maintain this institution rigidly according to the order, then many people will be benefited. By seeing our behavior, by character, they will become. Apani acari prabhu jiveri siksaya. The leader should be ideal.
Devotee (1): We should dedicate our lives to preaching this message of Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupada: Yes, preaching, preaching, you will become perfect preacher. Preach only what you have heard from Krsna and guru, that's all. Don't add and subtract. Then you are secure. And if you add some concoction just like somebody says that "I may do whatever I like independently. If I chant, then everything is all right," this is nonsense addition. It is not the fact. That is the danger. Some inexperienced man, he introduces some concoction. Sometimes they say, "Prabhupada said it." More misleading. Yes. (end)

 

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Modern Primitives

Durban, October 13, 1975
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Prabhupada: Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. (break) ... karma bandha phasa: one after another. Asate vilasa: material enjoyment means implicated in unnecessary activities. If people are satisfied, plain living, then these things are not necessary: go into the ocean, find out oil, then bring it in the port, then distribute it, so many, one after another. That, this kind of civilization, they think it is advanced. And to live very plainly, minimizing this unnecessary activity, they think it is not civilization.Pusta Krsna: Primitive.
Prabhupada: Primitive, yes. But primitive meat-eating is continued. That is not to be stopped, primitive drinking and meat-eating.
Pusta Krsna: Would you like a tissue, Srila Prabhupada? A tissue?
Prabhupada: No. (break)
Pusta Krsna: ... it is misdirected and simply based on sense gratification, has no purpose. So people may question us that we are putting forward a civilization which India had practiced for thousands of years.
Prabhupada: Why you speak of India?
Pusta Krsna: Well, because when we speak of Vedic culture, at least contemporarily speaking, people think of India. Even few hundred years ago, all the acaryas...
Prabhupada: All right, India. Then?
Pusta Krsna: So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it's not working in India today. Although theoretically it's perfect, practically it's not working.
Prabhupada: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex -- these things are...
Pusta Krsna: Imported.
Prabhupada: In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.
Pusta Krsna: Tea?
Prabhupada: Yes. Nobody would drink tea, no family. We have seen it. And for drinking, for drinking tea, drinking wine, regular propaganda was done. There was a tea assess(?) (tea sets?) committee. Men these foreigners, they began to grow tea in India in the beginning for exporting to Europe and America... Later on, they began to pay some tax to the government. That was known as "tea assess(?) committee." The tea assess(?) committee, in order to popularize drinking tea, they used to hold stall, just like here in park and public places, and they would prepare very tasty tea and distribute free.
Pusta Krsna: Free.
Prabhupada: Yes. And advertise, "If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved," and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphlet and giving free. Just like we distribute prasadam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: "Oh, it is very nice." Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda. And culturally, in our school days they wrote... One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England's Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites...
Pusta Krsna: Sati rite.
Prabhupada: Yes. That "Later on, after the death of husband in some places the wife was forced to go to the fire, so the Britishers stopped it. And they introduced railway for going to the pilgrims and so many, and they constructed bridges to make easy to go from one country to another." And people took it very seriously, that British government is very nice. And they were publishing in outside country that "India is uncivilized. We are making them civilized. And as soon as they are civilized, then we hand over the charge to them. That is our noble mission." And they were exploiting. All raw materials was being taken away and the necessities of India, especially cloth, was being supplied. And the local weavers, their hands cut off. So many thing they, tainting... And everything bad. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru. He became a first-class victim.
Pusta Krsna: First-class?
Prabhupada: Victim of European propaganda. He used to take "Anything Indian, bad. Anything Indian, bad." Not only he. Later on, all the so-called educated persons, they took it for granted that "Whatever is done in London, that is first-class, and whatever is Indian original, that is all bad." And they controlled the native princes. So many things. It is a big history, how they killed India's original culture. And then Hindu-Muslim riots, friction, fighting between Hindus and Muslims and dividing them.
Pusta Krsna: You said that the British instigated the Muslims.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: How did they do that?
Prabhupada: Oh, you... Nowadays you pay somebody, and he will do anything. So they appointed this Jhinna. He found that he is a very, intelligent lawyer. He was in the Congress. So there was dissension. There must be. So once this Jhinna was to be the president of the Congress, and the Patel, he frustrated. So Jhinna became angry, and at this moment the Britishers took it. He was a very intelligent barrister. So he instigated that, "You form a party, Muslim league. And whatever money is required for propaganda, we shall pay." So regular subscription was raised from all big, big British companies, mercantile, to pay him: "Whatever money, you organize the Muslims against the Hindus." And he did it.
Pusta Krsna: Jhinna, he was Muslim.
Prabhupada: He was neither Muslim nor Hindu. He was an intelligent barrister coming from the... His father, means not real father, his father was Parsi, and he kept one Mohammedan girl. So the Jhinna is the issue of this... (to passerby) Hare Krsna.
Indian: Hare Krsna.
Pusta Krsna: Hare Krsna. Today at 2:30 we have program at Peter Mather Hall. Yes. Come along.
Indian: Not Carlisle Street?
Pusta Krsna: No. Carlisle Street is the Arya-samaj temple. (laughs) So...
Prabhupada: "So if you make propaganda and pay money to go against the Hindus and incite them" -- gradually it developed. And the money was being paid by the Britishers. And he saw that money is coming. He had no feeling, national or... He wanted money, that's all. For money you can purchase anything nowadays.
Pusta Krsna: Why did the British build all so many railroads?
Prabhupada: For drawing raw materials from villages and bring it to the Calcutta, Bombay port and export to their country because their country does not produce anything. They're starving. Still England, London, is maintained by importing goods from Africa, India, here, there. They have no food there. They can grow some potato, maybe... Potato only, That was the reason of expanding their empire. They had no food at home, England. They were manufacturing cotton cloth. That cotton was not grown in their country. It was brought from Egypt. They manipulated things in such a way. In America also they wanted to do that, but Americans, just understanding, separated, George Washington. In America I have heard that each family was to maintain a British soldier. You know that?
Pusta Krsna: No, I didn't know that.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they brought tea from India and other places and sell it in America. Their whole policy was they exploit the whole world and bring money in London. That's all. And one who will do that, he will be honored by the state, given Earl of some small village. It has no value. Earl of this whole..., this man..., place, Lord of this. (laughter) A few acres of land and he is Lord of Chelmsford. And they will be given big, big post, governor, viceroy.
Pusta Krsna: Why did Nehru, though... He was so closely associated with Gandhi, and Gandhi was for getting the foreign products out. Why did Nehru go so much against that policy? Why did Nehru?
Prabhupada: No, Nehru, he was searching after some big post. That's all. All these political agitators, they want the big post, that's all. You give them big post, and they will be satisfied. They will no more agitate. Political agitators means they want some prize post from the government. That's all. Make them some minister, and they will be no more agitator.
Pusta Krsna: But he is considered to be very religious man in the eyes of the masses.
Prabhupada: Who?
Pusta Krsna: Nehru.
Prabhupada: Nehru?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. I know one Gujarati school, they have a book. And in the book it is taught that Gandhi, Nehru...
Prabhupada: That is propaganda.
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is propaganda.
Pusta Krsna: (break) ... in the last fifty years or so that especially that the Indian culture has been squashed and perverted by the British.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Is that because of mass communication, Prabhupada? Is that because of mass communication?
Prabhupada: Mass communication or no...
Pusta Krsna: Radio, and things like this.
Prabhupada: Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything. (break) Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India's basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the sudras, less intelligent class of men, less than sudras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you'll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.
Pusta Krsna: In the villages?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, sudras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India's civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages. In the evening there would be bhdgavata-katha. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing -- what we are just introducing -- Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, Puranas, and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Krsna, Vrndavana. Krsna, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause) So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.
Pusta Krsna: Hate everything Indian.
Prabhupada: Yes. That was the policy of education. So as soon as one became graduate and educated, he began to hate everything Indian original, and if he would get some clerk's business, service in some office, and his life is successful. That is still going on. So our car is here?
Pusta Krsna: It's just up here, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: The brahmana became by caste brahmana. He will do everything nonsense and still, he remains a brahmana. But you can introduce the original Vedic culture in this Europe and America. You have understood. You can do it. By this material civilization they will never be happy, and it is risky. That they do not know. They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. So irresponsibly... Or just like these elderly persons, how they are wasting time.
Pusta Krsna: Just sitting on the beach.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not only sitting, they have no other engagement. They do not know how human life should be utilized. They do not know. They are simply taking consideration of the body, running or skating or this or that, but they have no other engagement. They do not believe that there is soul and that soul's business is first business. They do not know that, neither they do accept it. They are under nature's law, very simply explained in the Bhagavad-gita, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara. By nature's law you have to change your body. It is evident. Still, they will not believe. We're changing body every moment, and they will say, big, big professors, that after the body is finished, everything is finished. This is ajnana. And that is going on as education, whole world. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is in ignorance, so we are giving them wise instruction. They are thinking, "These people are crazy men." That's all.
Pusta Krsna: How were the leaders, though, of India so weak when the British first occupied that they allowed this all to take place?
Prabhupada: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, "Let anyone become king. It doesn't matter. We... Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all." When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate. Even Bhaktivinoda Thakura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.
Pusta Krsna: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Over the Muslims.
Prabhupada: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Thakura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India -- you may say primitive or whatever you want -- they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.
Pusta Krsna: (to driver) Go down this street, Prabhu.
Prabhupada: Nationalism was unknown to India. They never thought.
Bhargava: ... allow the Muslims to enter and do so much damage to the Vedic culture?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhargava: Why did Krsna allow the Muslims to enter and do so much damage to the...
Prabhupada: Krsna is your father's servant that you do something wrong and Krsna has to check it? Is your Krsna your father's servant? Then why do you ask this question? If you allow somebody to cut your head, has Krsna to come to save you? Why do you ask this nonsense question? You are Krsna conscious. Samo 'ham sarva-bhutesu. If you cut your own head, what Krsna will do? In the same term, nationalism, as Vedic culture is Krsna's national affair, your disease is there. Why Krsna will come to save the Vedic culture? What business He has got? If you are spoiling it, then why Krsna will come? Spoil, and suffer. (break) ... the same question in a different way, "Why India? Why Krsna?" as if Krsna is Indian. Krsna is Indian? Then why do you ask this question, that "Krsna will come to save India's culture?"
Bhargava: Not the Indian culture but the Vedic culture, Krsna's culture.
Prabhupada: Vedic culture, He has given, Bhagavad-gita. Why don't you accept it? You don't accept; then suffer. He has given His instruction. The government gives you the law. Now, when you violate, the government will come to stop you? You violate and suffer. Why do you expect that "When I violate the laws, the government men will come and stop me?" Why do you expect like that? Eh? The government can give you the law book. You consult and do accordingly. You'll be happy. And if you don't, against, the government man is not coming to stop you. You do and suffer. Krsna says, "Whenever there is discrepancy, I come." That is general, not for India. Vedic culture is not for India. It is for everyone.
Pusta Krsna: It'sjust that people have taken India as a model of our philosophy, and sometimes people judge our philosophy by India's practical application.
Prabhupada: That is a... That is a fact. India was practically following the Vedic culture. That's a fact. But now they have given up, so what Krsna can do?They have been victimized. So if you give up your own culture...
Pusta Krsna: But this propaganda is going on even here, that anything which is Indian is inferior, and anything which is European is good.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the propaganda always. That is going on. That I already explained, that this was the propaganda of the Britishers, "Anything Indian is bad." You see, they wanted to stop our Ratha-yatra in London as soon as they saw that it is becoming popular. Even in India the government doesn't want that Krsna consciousness movement should go ahead. It is the demonic principle -- Krsna should be cut down. That is the way of demonic civilization. Stop Krsna consciousness. Now we are preaching, "No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating." Do you think people like it?
Pusta Krsna: No.
Prabhupada: Everyone is against this movement. So who is coming to save us? Nobody is coming. Krsna is saving. Otherwise it would have been stopped long, long ago. I was thinking that "As soon as I shall propose all these things, immediately these American people will ask me to go back home. Instead of go back to Godhead, "You go back to India." (laughter) So it is Krsna's kindness that you, a few boys and girls, have accepted this principle. Otherwise who likes this? Nobody likes. Nobody likes. Lord Zetland flatly said, "Oh, it is impossible." This is the life and soul of the modem civilization. just see the advertisement-sex. You see, illicit sex. Who would like our movement? Nobody likes. What is this picture means? Sex, that's all. So many advertise..., wine advertisement, meat-eating, gambling -- everything. The modern life is going on the basis of these four principles of sinful life, and we want to stop it. Nobody likes it. Still, we are selling so many books and people are hearing us... (break) (out of car) Why the scientist does not make chemical composition egg?
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Huh? What is your answer?
Pusta Krsna: They say that life is made of organic compounds.
Prabhupada: That's all right. You combine them.
Pusta Krsna: We can't.
Prabhupada: Then why do you say nonsense? What is the answer?
Pusta Krsna: Well, if we take these organic compounds and mix them together at the smallest level, then we can build up these compounds and make some kind of life.
Prabhupada: Yes, make this chicken. You require so many chicken. Why do you take the eggs from other chicken? You come on, make it.
Pusta Krsna: I don't think the scientists have ever been asked to make an egg before.
Prabhupada: Simply cheating and taking huge sum of money. All bluff.
Pusta Krsna: Hare Krsna.
Harikesa: They may say "What is the use of creating an egg?"
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: "What is the use of creating an egg?"
Prabhupada: You require so many eggs.
Harikesa: "Well, the chickens are already doing that. We're doing things that nature can't do."
Prabhupada: No, no, our point is that you want to create life, so first of all begin this. Create chicken, and then we shall think of other important living beings. Point is that in order to produce life you have to take another life, assistance. You cannot... As you say, that life is made of matter, that is not the fact. Life is made of life. So you are taking the eggs from another life. And in the egg there is life. That you do not know. Sometimes they take it that egg is vegetable. No. What is that?
Harikesa: Well, the egg is not fertilized, so it's not yet a chicken. It's just an egg.
Prabhupada: So that's all right. It is lump of matter. So you take a lump of matter and fertilize a life.
Harikesa: Well, I'm convinced. There's nothing... (laughing) ... nothing left to say.
Pusta Krsna: The argument is that the scientists are claiming they can do so many big things, but they can't even manufacture one egg.
Prabhupada: That's it. And these rascals are talking very big, big words. That has to be stopped, that "Don't talk nonsense and bluff people and take high salary, simply cheating. Don't cheat any more. Admit that you cannot do anything. You simply bluff. That's all." That is to be done.
Harikesa: "Well, with all our research we're finding cures to so many diseases. With our research..."
Prabhupada: That, you nonsense, you go on doing, but no disease is stopped. You... Futile attempt.
Harikesa: "But twenty years ago there was so much smallpox everywhere. But now..."
Prabhupada: That is nonsense. You have stopped smallpox, but you have increased cancer. So what is the use?
Harikesa: "Now we are finding a cure for that also."
Prabhupada: That's all. Go on working like ass, (laughs) without any... Even if you have some medicine for disease, you cannot stop disease. You cannot stop death.
Harikesa: "Well, man's duration of life is getting longer."
Prabhupada: Rascal. (laughs)
Harikesa: "Just like in the fourteen or fifteen hundreds people only lived to be about forty or fifty years old, and now they are living so long."
Prabhupada: They are living now twenty-five years. In India the average is thirty-five or twenty-five. After all, you are going to die. That you cannot check. (aside:) You have come. Namaskar (Hindi) (break) ... very big scientist. They say that life is made out of chemicals. Now you just try to make life by combination of chemicals and fertilize it. Why they cannot do it? So many things. Simply people are being bluffed, and they are kept in ignorance, and they are flourishing at the expense of these rascals.
Indian man (1): That is right.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no real knowledge.
Indian man (1): No. They cash in on the ignorance of the people.
Prabhupada: That's it. (Hindi -- break)
Indian man (1): Cheat everybody, I mean, get all the members and live on that. (break)
Indian man (2): Where does it have it's place in Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: Omkara is... Omkara is sound representation of Krsna. One who is unable to chant Krsna, for them omkara. Because there are many envious persons -- they won't chant Krsna -- therefore Krsna has given them omkara.
Indian man (2): And the swastika?
Prabhupada: Pranavah. Pranavah sarva-vedesu. It is said in the Bhagavad-gita, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhasmi sasi suryayoh, pranavah sarva-vedesu. Hare Krsna.
Indian man (2): Swastika.
Prabhupada: Swastika is also there, Vedic mark. Especially for the impersonalists. But we take direct, beautiful Krsna, and worship Him. (break)
Pusta Krsna: When did civilization begin? Well, the first men, they were uncivilized. Then, by little bit of intelligence they developed different types of tools and weapons. When, they have no date, though.
Prabhupada: Therefore his civilization -- so much, that's all. His standard of civilization, this much. (break) ... no tree, even a small tree is considered big tree. (break) Man came from ape, so why man is not coming now from ape? Hm?
Harikesa: It only happened once, and that was enough to start the whole thing.
Prabhupada: Only once.
Pusta Krsna: It had to happen at least twice.
Prabhupada: That is another rascaldom. We see the flowers and fruits are coming every season. Why once? This dogmatic, we have to accept? Our experience is that by nature's way we find the same flower is coming again in the same season.
Pusta Krsna: Well, actually Darwin said that there's a missing link.
Prabhupada: You rascal, you say that. What is that missing link? Simply bluffing, and it is going on in the name of science. Just see the fun. Simply misleading, and people are so rascal, this civilized man, so-called, he is accepting as great theory.
Pusta Krsna: Accepting?
Prabhupada: This Darwin's theory as very big invention or discovery. Simply childish rascaldom. There is no reason; there is no sense. Man came from monkey -- why not coming now? Stop once. So what kind of men came first?
Pusta Krsna: First there was very primitive man.
Prabhupada: No, primitive...
Pusta Krsna: They think that he resembles a monkey very much.
Prabhupada: So there are in Africa these men. They resemble that, what is called? That animal?
Pusta Krsna: Gorilla.
Prabhupada: Gorilla. So these men are still existing. But why from gorilla they do not come?
Pusta Krsna: They don't come from the gorilla.
Prabhupada: Africans, I have seen, they look like gorilla. So why now from gorilla the Africans or any black man is not coming? Then the question is the black man... We have got experience. The black man come. And wherefrom the white man came? Is there any white gorilla?
Pusta Krsna: No.
Prabhupada: No. Then white man, how did he come?
Harikesa: Well, sometimes there is a freak of nature, and the pigments that are in the skin...
Prabhupada: Simply it is for Darwin, "sometime." To support his rascaldom, nature has to serve him "sometimes. "Just see. We have to believe. Nature's law is the same, symmetrical. Nature is not obliged to serve Mr. Darwin, the rascal. Sometimes. He says, "sometimes." He did, and he knew it only and nobody knew. We have to believe that. Sometimes it was done, and it was revealed to Darwin. How he came to know? Nobody could understand. Only Darwin could understand? There was no other?
Pusta Krsna: They use the same argument against us, though, that... They use the same argument against us that so few people can understand God...
Prabhupada: No. We don't say like that. We say that God first spoke to sun-god, and sun-god spoke to his son, Manu, and Manu spoke to Iksvaku, Iksvaku spoke to his son. In this way are there. We don't say, "The God spoke to me." Evam parampara praptam, that is  quite reasonable. God said to Brahma, and the Brahma said to Narada, Narada said to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva said to others. In this way we should know. If my father said to my forefather... My forefather said to my father or my grandfather, and the same news is coming in family way, then where is the wrong? We don't say, "Darwin simply knew it." No, we don't say that. Evam parampara praptam. He was a rascal number one, all these scientists, the so-called scientists.
Pusta Krsna: But how can we prove Krsna scientifically?
Prabhupada: First of all let them prove their theory. Then we shall prove ours. We are proving. We have got our own way. But why they are speaking all this nonsense? First of all let him prove that he is genuine. Then our turn will be next. Ours is very easy. Krsna said to sun-god, and sun-god said to his son, his son, his son. It is coming like that. Where is the difficulty? Again Krsna says, "Now it is mismanaged. It is lost, so I am saying again to you Arjuna." So what Arjuna has understood, we are understanding the same way. How Arjuna understood it, that is written in the Bhagavad-gita. Where is the... We have no difficulty. But you jump over: "There is link," that "Once only from monkey came." What is this nonsense? We have to believe this? Has it any sense? And because Mr. Darwin is speaking we have to accept it? We cannot...
Harikesa: Well, certain changes take place. Just like when it is very hot, if you are in a hot climate all the time your blood thins.
Prabhupada: That's all right. No, no. This is not...
Harikesa: Well, if you take that further, all of these changes that mount up to some big physical change.
Prabhupada: No change is taken. The nature is working symmetrically always. The sun is rising in the morning. That is going on for million, million, million, millions of years.
Harikesa: Gradually the change has taken place in a very scientific way, step by step.
Prabhupada: What change has taken place?
Harikesa: First the hairs fell off...
Prabhupada: Morning... In the morning the sun rises on the eastern side. That is going on. What change has taken place? This flower, seasonal flower is... Now seasonal changes -- winter, summer, spring -- everything is going on symmetrically. There is no change. Because it is going on symmetrically, therefore we can say that February, next February will be very nice season here. Why? Because we have got experience last February, so we are certain the same thing will happen in the next February. Therefore we can say. There is no such change. Nature's way. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani. It is very symmetrical. Everything is going on nicely, nature's way.
Pusta Krsna: One of the strong points of Darwin's theory...
Prabhupada: I don't find. Simply foolishness I accept. And rascal, foolish like you, will believe. (laughter)
Pusta Krsna: They argue that five thousand years ago they have no history, so they think that before that time...
Prabhupada: "They think." That is their rascaldom.
Pusta Krsna: Formerly there was no civilization. Therefore like monkey.
Prabhupada: "They think." That is their... We don't "think." We have got millions of years' history. Why we shall think with them, with these rascals? They may think, the rascal. A child may think like something, but a elderly man will not think like that. Because they are thinking like that, we have to think with them?
Pusta Krsna: No.
Prabhupada: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Krsna, who is accepted the Supreme by all the acaryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.
Harikesa: Well, the Bible is just some story. I mean, the Bible is just some story. Why should we believe that all of a sudden there was...
Prabhupada: No, Bible is not authorized because it was compiled after Jesus Christ finished.
Harikesa: No, the Bible was there... Old Testament has been there for thousands of years.
Prabhupada: Old Testament, but what is going on, Bible...
Harikesa: That Genesis, where it says the creation...
Prabhupada: That is another thing.
Harikesa: That's just some story. Why should we believe it? There's nothing else to believe. Why not believe this Darwin?
Prabhupada: No, but you are not believing Bible. Bible, they say that the earth is square. So nobody is believing. So one point is sufficient, that it is not perfect. One point is sufficient.
Harikesa: (laughing) It says the earth is square?
Prabhupada: Yes, they... They say it. Formerly they believed that.
Pusta Krsna: Probably does.
Harikesa: Oh, you mean flat.
Prabhupada: You'll fall down. If you go very far, you'll fall down. Just like a child thinks. Bible, so many have been proved not authorized. Therefore Bible is not authorized.
Harikesa: So we had this religion, and everybody was saying that this was the correct way, the official policy. So everybody knew this was nonsense. So Darwin is very scientific, so we accept the science.
Prabhupada: What is that science? He said, "By chance, once, nature came." Is that ... ? That is not science. We don't find, nature's way, by chance it comes. No. As soon as you talk something nonsense, your whole statement will be accepted as nonsense because you are nonsense. What is the value of your statement? This is our test. Once you say something nonsense, you are wholesale nonsense. That is our test. You cannot say, "I am sorry. It was incorrect," no. That is not allowed. Then your whole statement is incorrect. This is our... Harikesa: Scientists are always doing that. They're always saying that.
Prabhupada: Therefore they're all nonsense.
Harikesa: "Last year we made a mistake. Now it's all right."
Prabhupada: "Now we advance." And what is the guarantee that it is all right? You will advance again. That means you are always incorrect.
Harikesa: But people always think that it's always getting better.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are rascals. This is called maya. They remain rascal; still, they think that they are advancing.
Harikesa: Nobody thinks about that point, nobody.
Prabhupada: If everyone is rascal, how he will think? We say mudha, all rascals.
Pusta Krsna: But when the early scientists, they were analyzing the body, they tried to find the soul. They would look for the soul in different parts of the body. They couldn't find it with their microscopes.
Prabhupada: That's all right. That is his rascaldom. He's a rascal. But soul is there. Then find out what is the missing point of a dead man. If there is no soul, something is missing.
Harikesa: Well, actually they've pinned it down to a little bit of a molecule that breaks down.
Prabhupada: That's all right. Bring that molecule.
Harikesa: They're working on it.
Prabhupada: Huh? Again, "working on it." You see. This is bluff. This is bluff.
Harikesa: Now they are inventing these different DNA and RNA molecules to change people by injecting them with these different things before they are born, making new people.
Prabhupada: That is not very difficult thing. If you make some vegetable, if you add more sugar it becomes sweet. If you add more salt it becomes salty. That you can do. That is not very difficult. Our question is wherefrom the life comes? That is our... So they do not give any answer to this. That is their foolishness. What is that life? They say life developed from chemical. Now do it. By chemical combination make in one egg and give it to the fomenting machine. What is that? Fomenting machine? They have got heating machine?
Harikesa: Incubator.
Prabhupada: Incubator. Put it there. Then we shall accept your science. Why don't you do that? Then your all theories are useless. This is practical.
Harikesa: It seems much more practical to make a computer than to make an egg. I mean, a computer...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, do it. And from that egg, you get chicken. Then I shall accept that you are scientist. Otherwise you are rascal, talking all madman's proposal. Do it. Ask them. Write in the paper that "Prabhupada was speaking like that, a challenge to the scientist: ‘Is there any scientist who can make an egg which is put in the incubator and gradually it comes to become ...'"
Harikesa: They will think we are completely crazy.
Prabhupada: Huh? Well, then kick on their face, on their nose, rascal. We are crazy or you are crazy?
Harikesa: But who wants to make eggs?
Prabhupada: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is... What is called?
Harikesa: Plastic.
Prabhupada: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.
Pusta Krsna: Make a chicken.
Prabhupada: Yes. Make a chicken or so many birds. If not chicken, make a sparrow. Do something. Do something. Why you should be misled by them, these rascals? Challenge him. Challenge them publicly that "These rascals are misleading. Don't accept them. They're simply misleading."
Harikesa: Well, they're the best we have. They're the best we have. We have nobody. Who else is going to take care of us?
Prabhupada: No, at least... We ... just like we challenge, they cannot give answer. This should be proved. Then they will be proved that they are rascals.
Harikesa: The whole scientific craze seems to be settling down anyway. It seems to be dying down.
Prabhupada: It must die. The scientists, they admit now, "What we shall do? We have bluffed in so many ways. Now what is the next bluffing?" Their bluff, last bluffing, was going to the moon planet, and everything is failed. Then what is next bluffing? That is their problem, how to keep their big, big post?
Harikesa: There's nothing left to do.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have finished all their theories. Still, they could not do anything. This is their position. (break) Margarine is also another bluff. It is oil; it is taken as ghee, er, butter.
Harikesa: They say it's very healthy for you.
Prabhupada: They will say.
Harikesa: It doesn't have all those cholesterols.
Prabhupada: Otherwise how they will sell? They will say. They will present anything nonsense in flowery language, and people will be cheated. That's all.
Harikesa: Americans can't stand this butter and ghee. When we cook in these pure things like ghee, they become very upset.
Prabhupada: Because meat-eaters.
Harikesa: If it's not impure they don't like it.
Prabhupada: Meat-eaters cannot digest ghee. Therefore in America, all of a sudden change of diet in our..., their stomach become upset. Just like animal, dogs, they cannot eat this ghee preparation.
Pusta Krsna: They can't take it.
Prabhupada: They can't take it. So these meat-eaters, like dogs, they cannot digest. (break)
Pusta Krsna: In our philosophy, how did man come about? They'll ask us what is our philosophy how man came about.
Prabhupada: Man came from man. The first man is Brahma. From him came. And Brahma came from Narayana, Visnu. So this is easy. Brahma appeared from Visnu.
Pusta Krsna: So the first created being was a man.
Prabhupada: Yes, Brahma, a first-class man.
Pusta Krsna: Even before the plants. Even before the plants.
Prabhupada: Yes, because man can create everything.
Pusta Krsna: That means Genesis in the Bible is wrong, because they say that first there were plants and then trees and then after man came.
Harikesa: No, first they say that there was a man did that.
Prabhupada: They say Adam and Eve.
Pusta Krsna: But they say first that the plants and the fish and the trees and the birds...
Prabhupada: Then Adam, Eve.
Pusta Krsna: Then, afterwards, that after creating so many things, the plants and the trees, God was still lonely.
Prabhupada: Brahma ... Brahma, when he was created, he was in darkness. He could not see anything. "What to do? What ... ? Why I am?" Then he tapasya, meditation. Then he was given intelligence. Then, gradually, everything...
Harikesa: It seems that the Christians' idea of God is our idea of Brahma. Their God is like Brahma. He's just a creator.
Prabhupada: What is their idea? I do not know.
Pusta Krsna: Their idea is that in the beginning there was darkness until God created the light. Then he created the different heavenly planets and the oceans and the inanimate things. Then He created...
Prabhupada: Then it is like Brahma.
Harikesa: It is like Brahma. And their heaven and hell is like the upper and lower planetary systems. It's all little bit of knowledge.
Prabhupada: Little difference, maybe, but the basic...
Pusta Krsna: They say that Adam was created...
Prabhupada: Then their God created. God created. So that is all right. We also say God created Brahma.
Pusta Krsna: Then they say that woman was created from a rib of Adam.
Prabhupada: That is also correct. That is also possible. Created from God, so that is accepted. The description may be little different. That doesn't matter. But God is the origin of all creation. If that is accepted, this is nice.
Harikesa: They also have this Noah and his ark thing, where all the earth became covered with water.
Prabhupada: Devastation.
Harikesa: It's like a Matsya avatara.
Prabhupada: So that is acceptable. Description may be little different. That doesn't matter. But God is the origin. Vedanta-sutra also says, janmady asya yatah, that "Absolute Truth is that from where everything comes." And the Bible, it is said, "God created this earth." So that is acceptable. Then Darwin says that all of a sudden a man was created. Wherefrom it came out? What is the first creation according to Darwin?
Harikesa: Very small microbes. And then they developed to many-celled animals and amoebas and...
Prabhupada: So how this microbe was created?
Harikesa: Spontaneous generation.
Prabhupada: Spontaneous? And it is known to you only, Mr. Darwin? You are the only intelligent man. You could understand. And you are talking so foolish, and still, we have to accept it. (end)

 

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Life--Work Hard And Sin

Dallas, March 4, 1975
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Prabhupada: ...and standing naked, that those who are fond of nudie-ism, they can get in next life. "All right, you stand naked for many years." This is the punishment. Human society, naked, that is their punishment.Jayatirtha: And during the winter they even lose their leaves...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayatirtha: During the winter, when it's coldest, they lose their leaves.
Prabhupada: The trees are taken to be the most tolerant. Trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. There is an extreme example of tolerance, this tree life.
Dayananda: In one of the purports in Bhagavatam you mention that first comes humility, then nonviolence and then tolerance.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dayananda: Is it also mentioned that in other places in our sastra?
Prabhupada: There are many places. Hare Krsna. [ ...is given for practicing God consciousness, and they have become advanced civilized, they are cultivating nudie-ism. Is it not? Nudie-ism. So the punishment is that "All right, you become nudie, you remain standing in one place, for five thousand years." (laughter) That is right. The trees live up till five thousand years. They live.
Visnujana: Prabhupada? But they argue that if God wanted us to wear clothes He would have made us with clothes. But He made us without clothes, so...
Prabhupada: The thing is that here material world means that whatever you want, you have to work for it. That is material world. Things are there, but you have to work for it. In the spiritual world there is no need of working. You get all necessities. That is the difference.
Visnujana: Yeah, we could say, "If God wanted you to have food, then He would have made you with food too." (laughter)
Prabhupada: Huh?
Visnujana: They say, "If God wanted us to have clothes, that He would have made us with clothes." So if He wanted you to have food, then He would have made you with food. Why do you have to go out and get your food? Similarly, you have to go out and get your clothes.
Prabhupada: No, this is called... What is the definition in the Visnu Purana? Avidya-karma-samjnanya trtiya saktir isyate. Avidya...
visnu-saktih para prokta
ksetrajnakhya tatha para
avidya-karma-samjnanya
trtiya saktir isyate
 [Cc. Madhya 6.154]
The three divisions of God's energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy -- these living entities, they are also spiritual; another energy -- material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidya-karma-samjnanya trtiya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your... The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?" No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidya. Avidya-karma-samjnanya. Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, "Why God has not created?" That means tendency is not to work. That is spiritual tendency. Everything, necessities, automatically available. That is our... Therefore as soon as one man becomes rich, he does not work. He gets his thing by working others. The tendency is there, to retire from work. They go to a solitary place. They retire. They do not go out. Weekly, at least, they want to stop worker, working. So why this tendency? He does not want to die. He does not want to work. This is spiritual. Why man should work like... Therefore real civilization is that minimize work. Minimize work, save time, and go back to your spiritual life. That is civilization. And this is not civilization, to get the necessities of life, sense gratification, and work like hog and dog. That is condemned. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. This human life is not meant for working so hard for sense gratification which are done by the dogs and hogs. Human life is meant: tapo divyam putraka yena sattvam suddhyed [SB 5.5.1]. Human life is for tapasya. Why tapasya? Yena sattvam suddhyed: their existence will be purified. Then you will get unlimited pleasure. Yato brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after unlimited pleasure. So that is not possible in this material life. And we are thinking, "By working very hard, like hogs and dogs, we will get happiness." This is... The dogs and hogs, they work day and night for searching out where is stool, and as soon as he gets stool, he becomes very strong and stout. Then sex. Never mind, the mother, sister, daughter. This is hog life. Therefore this particular animal has been... Kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. Vid-bhujam means this hog, stool-eater. So this human life is not meant for imitating the stool-eater hogs. This is in the Bhagavata. But they have imitated this, "We shall work. Work like hard work, hoglike, and there is no discrimination of food. All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life. Never mind whether he is mother, sister, or daughter. It doesn't matter." This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhagavata, "No, this is not life." But this has become actually the life, modern civilized life. Therefore it is called avidya, not education, contra-education. [break] ...says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don't produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duskrtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duskrtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Krti, krti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duskrtina. [break] "...by the orders of Christ we shall commit all kinds of sin, and Christ has taken contract. He will take our sin." That's all. Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupada: Do they not say like that?
Devotee: That's what they say.
Prabhupada: "Poor Christ, he has to suffer for all the sinful activities, and he wanted to save us from sin, gave his injunction. That we shall not care." This is Christian religion. And therefore they have to close down this hypocrisy. [break] That Melbourne meeting, some of you were with me? No. In Melbourne I was invited by some, many priests. Twice I was invited. The first meeting I am speaking. So there was a good meeting, all respectable priests. So they asked me that "Why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" So I asked them that "What you have not done?" (laughter) So they were not very much pleased. But I, in the open meeting, I said, "What you have not done? You have done all sinful activities. Therefore you have to close down this hypocrisy now." That was my answer, "What you have not done?" Now they are sorry, "What we have done?" That is called ignorance. They have done everything all sinful. They do not know that is sinful. [break] ...Bible, "Thou shall not kill," and they will not obey. That is sinful. Everything is there clearly, Ten Commandments, but they will not do that. Willful sinners. One may act sinfully, unaware. But they are willfully sinners. They know this is sin, and still they are doing.
Devotee: But they don't think it is sin, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee: They don't think it is sin.
Prabhupada: Why?
Visnujana: They say that...
Prabhupada: That means they are rascals.
Visnujana: Yeah, that's the problem.
Prabhupada: That means they are rascals.
Visnujana: They want to gratify their senses, and they'll do anything and even misinterpret the scripture to gratify their senses.
Prabhupada: That means a set of rascals, going on in the name of religion. So how long they can cheat others? So you can cheat all for some time, and you can cheat some for all time, but not all for all time. (laughter)
Devotee: Is it all right to... You mentioned that to work hard is like... Because we're in the material world we have to work, this is the condemnation...
Prabhupada: No, no. You have to work, but minimize work.
Devotee: I was wondering if it was all right to work hard for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. To minimize this material work means the energy should be employed for Krsna. Minimize work this, means this side, material side. And save time and chant Hare Krsna. That's all. That is the principle. And if you are busy from the early morning to go to the working place and up to ten o'clock, then where you get for chanting, time? So therefore you save time from material activities and engage it for advancing Krsna consciousness. That is life.
Ramesvara: But the Communists, they also argue that this Christian religion is hypocrisy. It has not brought peace on earth. So they also want to abolish it.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Ramesvara: They also want to abolish religion, this Christian religion, and just have a...
Prabhupada: That is bad experience. They have got bad experience from this so-called Christian religion, and they have no information that there is need of religion. Therefore they want to abolish. Everyone has got bad experience, and they are a little forward, that "Finish it." That's it.
Ramesvara: They say that the problems of the world are so great that unless people have allegiance to one world government, they will not be able to be solved.
Prabhupada: That we say, that Krsna is the supreme governor...
Ramesvara: Jaya.
Prabhupada: ...and take shelter of Him. Then everything will be solved. That we are preaching.
Ramesvara: They have missed that point.
Prabhupada: Ah. Ekala isvara krsna ara saba bhrtya. "Only master is Krsna. Everyone is servant." Accept this principle and everything will be all right immediately. Immediately. If you study the whole Bhagavad-gita, where is any word there which you can refute or which is not good for you? Study whole Bhagavad-gita. All practical and very congenial for human civilization. Krsna teaches from the very beginning, "First of all learn what you are. You are not this body. You are within this body." Now, who knows this? This is the first study. As soon as you understand that "I am not this body, I am within this body," immediate you understand what is spirit. Then your spiritual knowledge advances further. But these rascals, they do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual knowledge.
Devotee: They think that cows don't have a spirit.
Prabhupada: They may think like anything, rascal. Do you believe that?
Devotee: Yes, they have spirit...
Prabhupada: No, you believe it or not? They say, but whether you believe it or not?
Devotee: The spirit soul makes the body work. That's evidence that the spirit's inside.
Prabhupada: Yes, how you can say there is no spirit? You have got spirit. Your body is moving. You are walking. You are eating. You are talking. And as soon as the spirit is gone, then it is dead matter, bulk. The hand is there; it will not work. The leg is there; it will not work. So where is the difference between the cow's body and your body? Come to human reasoning. You say there is no spirit, so how you say? Where is the difference between your body and cow's body?
Jayatirtha: They say that the cow has no soul. Therefore we can eat the cow. But now they say that the man has no soul, so the conclusion is...
Prabhupada: Huh?
Jayatirtha: Previously they said the cow has no soul, so therefore we can eat the cow. But now they say that man has no soul.
Prabhupada: Yes, therefore kill in the womb. That is killing, the abortion, killing. That means advance of... advancement of ignorance is accepted as advancement of civilization. Why? The beginning is that there is no spiritual knowledge. Therefore the so-called advancement of ignorance is accepted as advancement of civilization. That is due to want of that basic principle of spiritual knowledge. Hare Krsna. (devotees chant japa) [break]
Bhakta-rupa: Perhaps that man thinks he has retired from working hard.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Bhakta-rupa: Perhaps that man thinks he has retired from working hard. But still he is performing so many activities, material activities.
Prabhupada: Hmm. What can he do? He has no other engagement. (laughter) He doesn't know that there is another engagement, spiritual life. He doesn't know. Ignorant. Karma-samjna. That I was discussing, this ignorance. He thinks working is life, that's all. Hard work.
Jagadisa: Now he's working hard to put a ball in the hole.
Prabhupada: Yes. He knows, "This is life." There is no other alternative. That is his ignorance. He cannot do it. Still, he is doing. You see? You know that when there was electric failure in New York? The statistics is that more women became pregnant. (laughter) But what they will do in the darkness? "Let us have sex." That's all. (laughter) [break]
Devotee: At the Mayapur festival the older Gurukula boys are coming. Dvarakadhisa and Ekendra, they're all coming. How many, about twelve?
Jayatirtha: No.
Devotee: How many?
Jayatirtha: Four.
Paramahamsa: Four. All four of them are coming. (laughter) (end)

 

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