"Forgetfulness Of The Lord"

66/07/18 New York, Bhagavad-gita 4.3-6


Prabhupada:

sa evayam maya te 'dya
yogah proktah puratanah
bhakto 'si me sakha ceti
rahasyam hy etad uttamam
[Bg. 4.3]

Last day we were discussing about the process of understanding Bhagavad-gita. This is to receive the knowledge in disciplic succession, bona fide disciplic succession. It is not a thing... Any knowledge, even material knowledge, if it is not received in bona fide disciplic succession, that knowledge is not perfect. Suppose if you want to be a lawyer, or if you want to be an engineer, or a medical practitioner. You have to receive the knowledge from the authoritative lawyer, authoritative engineer. Of course, I do not know what is the custom here. In India the custom is that a new lawyer, he has to become an apprentice of an experienced lawyer before he is given the license to practice. That is the Indian system. So any knowledge, unless we receive it through the authoritative sources, it is not perfect. It is not perfect.

There are two kinds of processes of acquiring knowledge. One process is deductive, and the other process is inductive. Those who are student of logic, you know that there are two processes: deductive knowledge and inductive knowledge. Deductive knowledge is considered to be more perfect. And what is that? Just like "Man is mortal." This is a truth, accepted. How man is mortal, nobody's going to enter into discussion. It is accepted that man is mortal. Now, Mr. Johnson is a man. So he is mortal. This is the deductive conclusion. Because man is mortal and Johnson is a man, therefore he's mortal. This is the process of deductive knowledge. Now, how this man is mortal, this truth established? The other party, those who are inductive, follower of inductive process, they want to see actually by experiment and observation how man is mortal. They want to study, "This man dies. That man dies. That man dies. That man dies." Therefore they make a general conclusion, "Well, all men are mortal."

Now, in the inductive process you have got some defects. What is that? Now, your experience is limited. Suppose if you have not seen a man who is not mortal, who is not mortal. There may be. Because you are going on with your personal experience, but your personal experience is always imperfect. That I have already discussed. Because we have got our senses with limited power. And there are so many defects in our conditioned stage. Therefore inductive process is not always perfect. The deductive process, from the authority, the knowledge received, is always perfect. So Vedic process is deductive process. Vedic process is deductive process.

You'll find so many verses in the Bhagavad-gita which may appear to be dogmatic. The Lord says that mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, there is nobody else greater than Me. There is no greater authority than Me." Krsna says. Now, apparently, it appears very dogmatic. Suppose if I say before you that, "There is nobody greater than me," oh, you'll think, "Oh, Swamiji is very proud." Yes. If a man like me, who is conditioned by so many, I mean to say, restrictions, if I say that I am the greatest of all, that is a blasphemy. I cannot say that. But Krsna can say. Because the history of life from Krsna, we can understand that actually He was the greatest personality. At least, during His time, He was the greatest personality in every field of activities. Now knowledge received from the greatest personality, greatest authority, is, according to Vedic system, that is accepted as perfect.

There are three kinds of proofs. According to Vedic system, they accept three kinds. For establishing truth, they, they take three kinds of proofs: pratyaksa, anumana, aitihya. In logic also, these three kinds of proofs are accepted. What is that? Now, direct perception. You are seeing. I am sitting here. That is direct knowledge. I am seeing that you are sitting here. That is direct knowledge, pratyaksa.

Anumana. Anumana means just like the children are playing there. We are hearing their sound. So we can conjecture that there are some children. We don't see the children. But we can conjecture, we can think, we can imagine that there are some children who are playing there. This is called anumana.

Pratyaksa, anumana and aitihya, or sabda-pramana. Sabda-pramana means to take the truth from the highest authority. That is called sabda-pramana. Just like "Man is mortal." Now, this "Man is mortal," nobody knows wherefrom this sound has come first. Who has experienced that man is mortal? But we are accepting this. We are accepting this. By tradition, we know man is mortal. Now if we, if somebody says, "Who found this truth first? Who discovered that man is mortal?" That is very difficult to say. But it is coming down. The knowledge is coming down, "Man is mortal," and we accept everything. There are so many examples. So out of these three, the Vedic knowledge, they say that this aitihya, or the knowledge received from the authority, is the most perfect.

Neither, I mean to say, imagination or hypothesis nor direct. Direct perception is always imperfect, especially in the conditioned stage of life. Just like direct perception -- with our eyes we see the sun just like a disc, not more than your plate on which you take your meals. But from authority, aitihya, we understand the sun is so many millions times greater than this earth. So which of them is right? By seeing your direct perception, sun just like a disc -- is it right? Or you take it from authority that sun is such and such times bigger than the earth? Which one of them you'll accept? But you are not going to prove it that the sun is so great. You do not know. You accept from some scientist, from some astronomer, from some authority, that sun is so great. But you have no capacity to see yourself whether the sun is so great or not. Therefore the knowledge received from authority actually we are accustomed and we are accepting this type of knowledge in every field of our activities.

Now, what is this newspaper? Oh, you, from newspaper you understand that "In China such and such things have taken place. And in India such and such things have taken place." Or from radio message you understand that "Such and such things have taken place." But you are not experiencing them directly, whether such and such things have actually taken place. But you accept the authority of the newspaper. You accept the authority of newspaper and you believe it, that in China such and such things have taken place and in India such and such things have taken place, which is far beyond the range of your direct perception. Similarly, there are many instances. We have to believe the authority to take knowledge. And the more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. The more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. Direct perception in all cases, it is not possible to receive direct perception of everything. Take, for example... (shouts from outside on street) Ask them not to make noise.

Devotee: The man's chasing the kids now.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is behind, these children. Ask them.

Devotee: Yeah, that's what... The man's chasing them right now.

Prabhupada: Eh? They are making noise.

Devotee: Yeah. He's chasing them now.

Prabhupada: Hm. So there is one very good example. Now, if somebody wants to know, "Who is my father? Who is my father?" And how he can know? There is no possibility of direct perception to know the father. It is not possible. Then who is the authority? The mother is the authority. When the mother says, "My dear son, here is your father," we have to accept it. If you say, "No, I don't believe you, mother," then you have no other source of knowledge who is your father. You have no other alternative; excepting the authority of your mother, you cannot know who is your father. Because he was your father before your birth, so how you can have direct perception? It is not possible. So many things there are that direct perception is not possible. Therefore in the Vedic process of knowledge the authority has been accepted as the perfect source of knowledge.

Now, here is Krsna, the direct, I mean to say, highest authority. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. The Lord says that "There is no other superior personality than Me." And it has been accepted by great scholars. Otherwise, why Dr. Radhakrishnan would take so much trouble for commenting or reading Bhagavad-gita? Why there are so many foreign scholars also in America, in England, in France, in Japan? All, they have... Why? Because it is an authority. So therefore we have to accept. To accept...

If we do not accept Krsna the supreme authority and so not take His words as they are, then we cannot derive any benefit... It is not dogmatic. It is actually fact. It is not dogmatic. If you study scrutinizingly what Krsna says, you'll find it is right. You'll find it, and if you take, if you follow... (kids screaming outside) Oh, they are making too much noise. Can you not ask them?

Devotee: Yeah, I'll ask them. (laughs) Agreed!

Prabhupada: If we take it, accept it as it is, as Krsna says, then actually, we shall be benefited. And great stalwart scholars just like Ramanujacarya, Sankaracarya, Madhvacarya, in India, they have accepted Krsna as the supreme authority.

Even Sankaracarya, who is, who has got a different opinion from the Personality of Godhead. Because we, we, the Vaisnavas, we are, we accept the personal Godhead, but there are other philosophers who do not accept the personal feature of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Sankaracarya was the head of this impersonal school. Still, he has admitted in his commentation of Bhagavad-gita that sa krsnah svayam bhagavan: "Oh, Krsna is the Supreme Lord. He's the Supreme Lord." So Krsna is the Supreme Lord, and He's accepted.

Now, now Sri Krsna says that "This Bhagavad-gita, this science of Bhagavad-gita, was first spoken by Me to the sun-god, sun-god. So whatever I am speaking to you, Arjuna, it is not a new thing." The Vedic knowledge, whatever Vedic knowledge you know, it is not, nothing like some discovery of knowledge. No. Everything is old, revealed knowledge. Everything is old, revealed knowledge. Going on. Just like history repeats itself. Just like this is, this is summer season. It is no new newcomer. The summer season comes. You know in your life. The summer season came last year, and again it has come. And we can foretell also that in the month of December there will be winter season. It is not foretelling. It is going on like that, circle. So everything is rotating, history is repeating. So knowledge, whatever knowledge is there, that is not a new thing. It is all old.

So Krsna says, sa eva ayam te, te adya yogah proktah puratanah. Puratanah means the old, puratanah. "I am speaking to you this yoga system, this Krsna consciousness." This Bhagavad-gita yoga system is Krsna consciousness, always to be in Krsna consciousness, this yoga is. So He says that, sa evayam: "I am speaking to you again that oldest knowledge, oldest knowledge of bhagavad-yoga, Bhagavad-gita. I am not speaking to you something new." Now, you can understand that Bhagavad-gita was first spoken to the sun-god, and we have calculated that Krsna's speaking to sun-god, even accepting, it comes to some forty millions of years before it was spoken. You have to believe it. So forty millions of years before it was spoken first. And we do not know how many millions of years it was spoken again before that also. Because history is repeating. And we do not know.

Our fund of knowledge is very poor. We cannot present history of this present world more than three thousand years. But in the Vedic scripture we find history, millions and millions of years ago. That is the beauty of Vedic literature. So because we cannot find out in the modern day three thousand, more than three thousand years of chronological history, that does not mean that there was no history before and there was no historical incidences. No. That we should not conclude in that way.

Krsna says that "I am speaking to you..." Sa evayam maya te 'dya: [Bg. 4.3] "What I am speaking to you now, today, it is not new. It was spoken long, long before. It is that oldest system of yoga I'm speaking to you." Bhakto 'si. Bhakto 'si: "And why I am speaking to you?" This is the point to be noted, that bhakto 'si. This Bhagavad-gita yoga is to be understood by a person who is a bhakta, who is a devotee of Krsna. Nobody can understand it. Bhakto 'si me sakha ceti rahasyam... Because there is a mystery, mystery of Krsna consciousness, which is impossible to be adopted by a person who is not a devotee of Krsna. That is the qualification. To understand, to become Krsna consciousness, it is rather a difficult job because unless one is a devotee of Lord Krsna, it will be a difficult problem. This, this very word, it suggests, bhakto 'si, that one's qualification must be that he's a devotee of Krsna so that he can understand Bhagavad-gita.

Now, Arjuna says that... Now, people, why Arjuna? Anyone can say, "Well, Krsna is a historical personality of Mahabharata. How it is possible that He spoke to sun-god forty millions of years before? Oh, this is something wonderful. How can we believe it?" Suppose if I say that "I narrated, I gave a speech in the sun planet and forty millions of years before," you'll laugh: "Oh, Swamiji's speaking some nonsense, that forty millions of years before he spoke this Bhagavad-gita in the sun planet." But He... That is not the case with Krsna because He's the Personality of Godhead. My case is different. If I say, you can disbelieve it. But when Krsna says, you cannot disbelieve it.

So even if you believe it, or do not believe it, that position is being cleared by Arjuna. Because Arjuna knew it perfectly well that it is quite possible by Krsna to speak such and such thing forty millions of years before because He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But for others, who will hear this Bhagavad-gita in future, for them, he's making the point clear and asking Krsna, aparam bhavato janma param janma vivasvatah: "My dear Krsna, You are born just... You are contemporary of me. Say, eighty years or ninety years before You were born along with me. Your age and my age, practically the same. How it is possible that forty millions of years before you spoke to sun-god?" Just see. It is very intelligent question by Arjuna so that the point may be cleared in future, people may not misunderstand Krsna. Aparam bhavato janma param janma vivasvatah.

Vivasvatah means the sun-god. "Oh, sun-god? Oh, sun planet was created some hundreds of millions of years before and You say that You said to sun-god? How it is possible because You are born not even hundred years completed?" Katham etad vijaniyam tvam adau proktavan iti: "Then how I am to understand it that You spoke formerly to sun-god?" It is, here... It is very intelligent question. It is very intelligent question. Now, what Krsna answers? Sri-bhagavan uvaca. Now, particularly said that, bhagavan uvaca: "The Personality of Godhead says." What does He say?

bahuni me vyatitani
janmani tava carjuna
tany aham veda sarvani
na tvam vettha parantapa

Now, the... (aside:) Yes, come on.

Krsna says, "My dear Arjuna, yes, your question is very intelligent question that you are asking Me how it is possible that forty millions of years before I spoke this science of Bhagavad-gita to the sun-god. Yes. But you, you should know it that bahuni me vyatitani janmani tava carjuna, You and Myself... Although I am God, I take incarnation many, many times. And you are a living entity; you are also taking your birth repeatedly so many times. So we have passed already. The difference between you and Me is this, that tani veda, tany aham veda sarvani, I, I remember what I did in the past, long, long years before, but you cannot remember." That is the difference between God and man, or God and living entity.

Our, our position as living entity... We are also eternal. Just like God is eternal, similarly, we are also eternal. But the difficulty is that we change our body. We change our body. Vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya [Bg. 2.22]. Just like we change our dress, similarly, we change our body. And as soon as we change our body, now, we forget everything. Death means forgetfulness. That's all. Just like at night, when you sleep, you forget yourself. You forget yourself that "I am the father of such and such children, I am the husband of such and such..." You dream that you are in a different place. Sometimes you are on the sea, sometimes on the sky, sometimes on something. You forget yourself. You forget yourself. Again, when you wake up, oh, you remember, "Oh, I am such and such person. I have to do such and such and such and such..." So this is going on. So death means forgetfulness. That's all.

Now, if it is a fact that I am eternal. So before getting this body, I had another body or another father, mother, family or society or country and everything... But do we remember it, in what country I was there? In what family I was there? Sometimes we get news from newspaper that a child is born. He is speaking about his previous birth. Perhaps you know. Sometimes it may be possible in extraordinary cases. But it is a fact. It is a fact that in my previous life I had also another body. I had my father and mother and country and family.

It may be I was a dog or cat or man or bird. That doesn't matter. But as living entity, I am eternal. I had my another body. Similarly, we, we are preparing another body in this life. Just like, under the preparation of my previous life, I have got this body. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. We get our body according to our karma, according to your karma. If we do sattvika-karma... Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah: [Bg. 14.18] "Those who are in the modes of goodness, they are promoted to higher status of life or higher planet, like that." And madhye tisthanti rajasah: "Those who are in the modes of passion, they remain here in this Bhurloka." And adho gacchanti tamasah: "Those who are engrossed with the modes of ignorance, they may be degraded from this planet to another, degraded planet, or another life, or animal life. This is the process, going on. And we forget.

Forgetfulness. There is some incidences that sometimes Brahma, he was cursed to become a, a hog. He became a hog. Then after... Not Brahma, Indra, the king of heaven. The king of heaven, he made some offense under, on the feet of his spiritual master, Brhaspati, and he cursed him that "You are just like a hog. You take the birth of a hog." So he became a hog. Now, when the throne of the heavenly kingdom was vacant due to the absence of Indra -- he has become a hog in this earth -- so Brahma came. Brahma came that, "Mr. Such-and-such, you have now become hog for your offensive activities. Now I have come to deliver you. Please come with me." Now, the hog said, "Oh, I cannot go with you. I cannot go with you. Oh, I have got so many responsibilities. I have got my children. I have got my wife. I have got my country. I have got my society." The hog, he's... So even you offer the hog to take him to the heaven, he will refuse. "Oh, I have got so much responsibility." This is called forgetfulness. This is called forgetfulness.

Now, the Lord Krsna comes that "What you are nonsense doing this material world?" Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You come to Me. I give you all protection." "Oh, I don't believe You, Sir. I have got more important business here. I don't believe You." This is our position. This is our position, forgetfulness. A conditioned soul is forgetful, forgetful. Praksepatmika, viksepatmika. There are... Two forces of nature is acting upon us by which we decide something that "We now, this life, I shall make spiritual advancement. Now it is decided." And next moment the illusory maya, or illusory energy, says, "What nonsense spiritual life you are going to do? Just enjoy this here. You have got so many enjoyments. Why you are thinking like that?" So praksepatmika, viksepatmika. This is going on. So forgetfulness. So that is the difference between God and man.

Here, in the Bhagavad-gita, it is clearly said that "My dear Arjuna, you also had many, many births. You were, you are also, because you are constant companion of Me, so whenever I take incarnation in the, any planet, so you also, you are also with Me. So when I took incarnation in the sun planet and I spoke this Bhagavad-gita to sun-god, you were also present with Me, but unfortunately, you have forgotten. Because you are a living being and I am the Supreme Lord." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord... I cannot remember. Forgetfulness is my nature.

Now, you cannot say... Now... Just now it is eight o'clock. Can you say exactly at eight o'clock what you had been doing in the morning or yesterday, this evening. Oh, you have to remember it. So while I cannot remember even what I was doing twelve hours before or twenty-four hours before, oh, what I can remember what was going on in my previous life? It is not possible.

Another thing is that why Krsna can remember and you cannot remember it? What is that? Why this difference? The difference is that Krsna does not change His body. You'll find in the... this chapter you'll find that Krsna says, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7],

paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
dharma-samsthapanarthaya
sambhavami yuge yuge
[Bg. 4.8]

Atma-maya, atma-maya. Atma-maya means He comes down as He is. He does not change His body. But we are conditioned soul. We change our body. That is the difference. And because we change our body, we forget everything. That is the difference. Tany aham veda sarvani. Krsna says that "I remember whatever has been done in My previous incarnations, and millions and millions of years before, I can remember them. I know past, future, present. Not only past, future, present of My activities, but past, future, present of everyone's activities." You'll find. Vedaham sama, sarvam etam. In the Tenth Chapter, you'll find that He knows past, present... And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam you'll find that the definition of the Supreme Lord is given as sarva-jna. Sarva-jna.

Sarva-jna means one who knows everything, past, present, future, everything. He's sa... That is the qualification of the Supreme Lord, sarva-jna. We are not sarva-jna. Even as the most perfect living entity, just like Brahma, Siva, they are, they are also not sarva-jna. Sarva-jna is only Visnu, Krsna. Krsna is sarva-jna. So that is the difference between man and God, or living entity and the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead. He knows. He knows.

Here it is distinct... If you have to believe Bhagavad-gita, then the distinction you have to believe, you have to take. You cannot say that "There is no difference between me and Krsna." No, there is difference. Here the difference is clearly explained that "That is the difference between you and Me, that you forget. You cannot remember all the incidences of your life, past, present and future, but I can remember." That is the difference.

Now, the next question is that if He does not change His body, why He takes, comes as incarnation? These are very difficult questions. There are some, many difference of opinions amongst the philosophers. Somebody says that Krsna assumes the material body when He comes. No. He doesn't assume the material body like us. Then He could not remember. Just, here is a critical point. If He would have accepted material body like us, then He could not remember because we have got this material body, and due to this material body and change, we cannot remember anything. Therefore the natural conclusion is that He does not change His body.

In the next verse, He says,

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma
bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakrtim svam adhisthaya
sambhavamy atma-mayaya
[Bg. 4.6]

Now this is called... As we generally call, "God is almighty, all-powerful." Now, here this all-powerfulness is explained. That ajo 'pi: "Although I have no birth... I am eternal." Similarly, the living entity, he has also no birth. This birth which we considered as birth, this is a birth of this body. I am also aja. Not that I was born at a certain time and I shall die at a such time. The birth and death which we have accepted, it is due to this body. But I am not this body. That point we have already discussed, that I am not this body.

So our birth and death calculation is on account of this body. Otherwise, we are as good as Krsna. As Krsna is aja, He never takes birth or never dies, there is no birth or death for Krsna, similarly, we living entities, we have also no birth and death. We are also eternal. But why this birth and death? This birth and death due to my, this material body. So as soon as we get our original spiritual body and get out of the contamination of this material body, then we shall be as good as Krsna. That is the whole process to understand. So we have to...

This Krsna consciousness means that by the process of Krsna consciousness we shall revive our original spiritual body. And when we revive our original spiritual body, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha... [Bs. 5.1]. Sat, cit, ananda. That is the formation of Krsna, and that is our formation also. Sat means eternal. Cit means full knowledge. Eternal, full knowledge and ananda. Ananda. Ananda means bliss. Now, we can make distinction from the spiritual body and the material body is this, that as the description of the spiritual body is given, sat-cit-ananda, eternal, full of knowledge and blissful, so just the opposite number is this material body. It is neither sat, nor cit, nor ananda. It is not sat. Sat means eternal.

Now, this, this body is not eternal. Antavanta ime dehah. As we have already discussed, that this body is perishable, whereas the person who is occupying this body, he's imperishable, imperishable. So this body's perishable. Therefore it is not sat. And it is, it is full of ignorance. Therefore it is not cit. And because full of ignorance and because it is temporary, therefore we have got miseries. Just like we are feeling too hot. Today the temperature is very high. Why we are feeling? Because due to this body. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. Similarly, in the month of December we shall feel severe cold. Why? Due to this body. Due to this... And as soon as we get spiritual body, we don't feel. We are unaffected by any material actions.

You'll find that there are many sages and saints who are almost spiritually realized souls, don't care for all this heat and cold. Still you'll find. If you happen to go to Allahabad in the month of December, there is a fair. All sadhus come there and in the severe cold and... Of course, not so cold as in your country, but still, sometimes it is forty degrees, temperature. But you'll find many saints there, bare, I mean to say, body. There is no dress. They are sitting, dead of night. You see? They don't care for cold or heat. You see? Because they are spiritually advanced.

So as you make your progress, spiritually, as you become hot... Just like I have given several times the example. If a iron, iron put into the fire, it gets warm, warmer, warmer and becomes red hot, and as soon as it is red hot, it is no longer iron. It is fire. The iron, wherever it will touch, it will burn because it has got the quality of fire. Similarly, even if you are in these bodies, material body, if you advance yourself in spiritual consciousness or Krsna consciousness, you will be spiritualized. Your body will be spiritualized. You'll be no more be affected by this material contamination. The more you make advance, you'll feel it. Pratyaksavagamam dharmyam. It is not for future tasting, but you'll understand it, understand it. So we have to make our progress in that way.

Now, here Krsna says that "Although I am aja..."

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma
bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakrtim svam adhisthaya
sambhavamy atma-mayaya
[Bg. 4.6]

Just like Krsna's birth, Krsna's appearance and disappearance, is just like the sun, is just like the sun. Now, sun, in the morning, you'll see that it, it appears as if it is born from the eastern horizon. It is not born. The sun is always in the sky. It is the position of the earth in which we understand that sun is now rising from the eastern horizon. He's neither rising, nor he's dipping into the sea. He is, the sun is as it is, in his position, but due to the position, changing position of this earth, we see that the sun is rising and sun is setting. Similarly, the Krsna, when He comes as incarnation, He comes just like this, in the same way.

There is some historical, I mean to, calculation, when Krsna comes on this earth. It is calculated that 864 crores of years after He comes once. Just like you can see the sun rising after twelve hours, after twenty-four hours. The morning sunrising takes place every twenty-four hours or the sunsetting also takes place every twenty-four hours. Similarly, there is also time limit. That is mentioned. When Krsna comes. When Krsna rises. He, He is rising... Just like sun, sunset and sunrising is going on every moment, every moment.

Now, if you inquire where is now sunset or sunrise you can understand in different countries somewhere, the sun is now rising. Now, in America, the sunset and in India it is rising. It is rising. Exactly it is now eight, quarter past eight, and if you know by radio message what is the time in India you'll find that it is quarter past eight in the morning, and the sun has just rising. Now, here the sunset, and the sun... Similarly, if you inquire from Japan or any other country, the sun, the sun is somewhere in the meridian, sometimes it is, I mean to say, dead of night. So this timing difference is just like going on according to the position of the world movement. Similarly, Krsna's appearance and disappearance is like that. It is not that Krsna is born and Krsna is gone. No, it is not like that. Somewhere is Krsna there. Just like the sun is somewhere. There are innumerable universes. The one universe, you see, oh, this is only one, but there are many. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gita that ekamsena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Ekamsena sthito jagat. This material manifestation, with innumerable universes, is only a one part of manifestation of the Supreme Lord. Ekamsena sthito jagat. These descriptions are there in the Bhagavad-gita.

So we should always remember that we are reading Bhagavad-gita and we should understand it as it is. We should not make any interpretation. That is a wrong thing. And if there was some necessity of interpretation, we should not think that Krsna left the matter for being interpreted by in later age by some scholar. Oh, He could have disclosed it Himself. He was quite competent. No. There is no question of interpretation. We have to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is. If we cannot understand, that is a defect in me, not in the Bhagavad-gita. So we have to find out the defect in me. So Lord Krsna says, ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san: "Although I am the Lord, I am the Supreme Lord of everything and although I am unborn, aja, and avyayatma, I have no change, still, prakrtim svam adhisthaya." Prakrtim svam.

Now, you should know there are two kinds of prakrti. Prakrti means nature. You'll find it in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita that the Lord says that He has got two... Why Lord says? In the Vedic scripture also we'll find, parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate: [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport] "There are different kinds of nature of the Supreme." Svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca. So out of many kinds of nature of the Supreme Lord, they have divided the whole thing into three divisions. One is called external nature, and the other is called internal nature. And there is another nature which is called marginal nature. The external nature, the material world, manifestation of this material world, is external nature. And this is described in the Bhagavad-gita, as we'll find it in the Seventh Chapter, that apareyam. Apara. Apara means inferior or lower nature, lower nature. So He has got higher nature.

One may question that "Why? The Supreme Lord is all-good. Why He has got higher nature and lower nature?" Yes, He has got because He says. You cannot say that there is no higher nature and lower nature. There is also higher nature. Now, here the Lord says that "When I come as incarnation, when I appear..." Prakrtim svam adhisthaya. Svam means His higher nature. He does not accept this material nature. He does not accept this material nature.

Just like the example... We can give very tangible example. Just like in the prison house sometimes the head of the country goes to visit, to see, to inspect how the prison life is going on or to give them some instruction, some good lesson, that "Why you are rotting in prison? You become good citizen." Now, suppose the head of the state goes to the prison and to instruct the prisoners, and if the prisoners think, "Oh, he is also a prisoner. The head of the state who has come to instruct, he is also one of the prisoners, like us."

So similarly, if we think that Krsna is like us, He is also assumed a material body and He is one of us, then it is a mistake. It is a mistake. That is explained. In the later chapters you'll find. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Oh, because I appear just like a man, the foolish man considers Me as one of them. But I am not as one of... I am not one of them." Here it is clearly said that "I appear, I appear." Prakrtim svam adhisthaya. "I appear in My own spiritual nature. I don't accept this lower nature, this material nature." So we are, when we appear... Just like we have appeared. We have appeared in this material world, accepting this material body, the lower nature. But when Krsna comes, He does not accept the lower nature. He comes in His original, superior, or higher, nature. That is the difference between Krsna and ourselves. Here it is clearly said, prakrtim svam. Svam means own, personal, internal nature.

Just like everybody has got some personal affair and some public affair. Everybody. A man, high court judge, he may be, as a public man, he may be a different personality in the high court bench. But at home he's a different person, a different person. In the high court bench one has to address that person, "My Lord," but at home his wife addressing him by his own name, "Mr. Harry! Harry! Why don't you do it?" Oh, there is no question of "My Lord."

Similarly, Krsna has got two nature, lower and higher nature. The higher nature is internal potency. That is His real life. So here Krsna says that "I come." Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san: "Because I need not come here. I need not come." Bhutanam isvaro 'pi san. Just like if He's the Supreme Lord, why does He come here? Yes, He does not need come here, but if He comes here, we cannot object. We cannot object. We cannot say that He cannot come here. He is free. He is svayambhu; He is fully independent. If He likes, He can come. Just like the example: If the head of the state goes to a prison house, it is not that he as been forced to come there just like other prisoners, but he comes to inspect, to see. It is his du..., it is his liking.

Similarly, Krsna, Krsna comes here with a purpose. What is that purpose? He comes here to reclaim these fallen souls. We are part and parcel... We are... Krsna loves us more than we love Him. We do not love Him. But Krsna loves. Krsna loves every living being. He says, sarva-yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah: [Bg. 14.4] "Every living being, whatever form he is, that doesn't matter, I am the bija-pradah pita, I am the seed-giving father."

So the father is always affectionate to the sons. The sons may forget the father, but the father cannot forget. So Krsna comes here out of His love for us to deliver us, to give us the right path. Sarva-dharman parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "My dear sons, why you are rotting in this miserable world? You come to Me. I'll give you all protection. You are the son of the Supreme. So you can enjoy life very supremely, very magnificently, without any death. Why you are rotting?" That is Krsna's mercy. Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san. Don't think that Krsna comes just like we are come here, being obliged, prakrteh kriyamanani, forced by the laws of nature according to our karma. He does not come like that. That is the difference between Krsna and myself.

Thank you very much. Now, if there is any question, you can ask. [break]

At that time, Krsna gave him a special elevation, to see that form. That is not possible to see by every man. You, perhaps you know it. So at certain stage one has to be elevated to understand Krsna. But these questions are common thing. Common thing. Just like there is a verse in Brahma-samhita.

premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.38]

Now, it is very nice verse that "Santah, those who are spiritually advanced, great sages and saints out of their love for Krsna, they see Krsna at every moment, every moment." Santah sadaiva. Sadaiva means always, without any interval. They always see Krsna. Santah sadaiva. And where does he see? Hrdayesu, in their heart, always see Krsna is present there. Then why? Why? Because he has acquired that qualification by elevation. So of course, to understand Krsna, to see Krsna, it requires the spiritual elevation of life. It is... But that elevation is being taught in the Bhagavad-gita step by step, step by step. We are in the, just in the... So one has to understand Krsna by, step by step. This study of Bhagavad-gita, as you make progress seriously, that is your elevation. That is your elevation. So when one is perfectly elevated.

Just like Arjuna, after hearing this Bhagavad-gita, when he was perfectly elevated, he said, karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Yes, I shall fight." Vacanam tava. He does not say, "I shall fight." He says that "I shall act according to Your word. Not only fighting, whatever You order me, I shall do it." That is the highest point of elevation. He...

In our lowest stage of life, we want to satisfy myself or satisfy my senses. That is the lowest grade of life. Just like the animal. The animals, they have no other business except satisfaction of their senses. That is the lowest grade of life, simply seeking after satisfying the senses. Then highest grade of life? The same satisfac..., not of his own self, senses, but the senses of the Supreme. Karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. This is the highest stage of life and the highest stage of life. Lowest stage of life is when the living entity's engaged in satisfying the senses. That's all. And the highest grade of life is when he's engaged in the matter of satisfying the senses of the Supreme. That is the difference. That's all. So this elevation takes place gradually, as we make advance by understanding Bhagavad-gita and similar granthas from authorities. Like that. This elevation takes place. But the lowest point of life and the highest point of life is differenced like this.

The senses are there and the man is there and everything is there. Nothing to be changed. In the bhakti-marga is like that. In the Narada-pancaratra you'll find, tat-paratvena nirmalam. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. When one's sense becomes purified... Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Now, at the present moment, I am covered by, I am embarrassed by so many designations. My senses are engaged in performing or satisfying my designational position. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am the father of such and such." "I am the husband of such and..." So my position is now embarrassed with so many designations. So my senses are engaged in satisfying or fulfilling the obligation of this, mean, embarrassment. Now, when these senses are purified by Krsna consciousness, then like Arjuna we shall say, "Yes." Karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Now I am prepared to satisfy Your senses. I am not going to satisfy any more my senses." That is the difference between spiritual promotion to the highest state and the lowest grade of life. And this you'll find in the Bhagavad-gita very nicely, how he's improving, how he's improving...

Any other question? Yes? (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.3-6 -- New York, July 18, 1966

"Take Perfect Knowledge"

74/03/21 Bombay, Bhagavad-gita 4.1


Pradyumna: (leads chanting) Translation: "The Blessed Lord said, I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku."

Prabhupada:

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]

So we are beginning today speaking on Bhagavad-gita, the preliminary scientific study of this science of Godhead. Bhagavad-gita means Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhagavan means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhaga, we generally know, bhagya, opulence, fortune, a man is called bhagyavan. This bhagyavan word comes from the word bhaga, Bhagavan. Bhaga means opulence, six kinds of opulences: wealth, strength, influence, education, wisdom, beauty, and renunciation. These are opulences. If a man is wealthy, he's attractive. He attracts. Any man, very wealthy, he attracts. Similarly, if he's very strong, if he's very influential, if he's very learned, wise, if he's very beautiful... He or she, it doesn't matter. Or if he's a great renouncer, one who has renounced everything for public benefit, naturally we have got attraction. So in this material world we find some wealthy man, some rich man, some strong man, some beautiful man, some wise man, one renounced man, but they are only fragmental. Fragmental, very small quantity. Any man... You can take a rich man. He may be very rich man, but, in comparison to the other persons in the material world, but nobody can claim that "I am the richest man." No. That is not possible. Nobody can claim. "I am the wisest man," nobody can claim. "I am the strongest man," that is also, nobody can claim. However one strong may be, he is under the rules and regulation and material nature. He cannot go beyond that. Therefore you cannot find Bhagavan, or the Supreme Person, possessing all these opulences. That is not possible.

But here it is said, bhagavan uvaca. That means He's the richest, He's the strongest, He's the most beautiful, the wisest, and the most renounced order of life. Krsna. When He was present in this material world, on this globe, He proved by His actions. So far His richness is concerned,... At this age, in this age, at the present moment, if a person can provide his family nicely, nice apartment or nice house, good dress, good food, he's considered to be very successful man. Because in this age... It is said in the sastra, daksyam kutumba-bharanam. Kutumba. Kutumba means family. If one can provide his family very comfortably, he is considered as very expert. But the family maintenance is done by the cats and dogs also. They also maintain their family, their wife, children, very nicely, according to their standard. But this age is so fallen that if one, even one is not married, the preliminary necessities of life, eating, sleeping, sex life and protection from fear... These are the preliminary necessities. So the age is so fallen that people have no eating substance even. We know, everyone, how things are going on. People are hungry, no eating substance. And what to say of sleeping? Or what to speak of...? Nobody's married timely, either boys or girls. And nobody's secure. Nobody knows what will happen next moment. This is called Kali-yuga.

Kali-yuga means mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [SB 1.1.10]. Prayenalpayusah kalav asmin yuge janah. Asmin yuge, kali-yuge, alpa ayusah, they are living very short time. The duration of life (is) reducing. Anyone can know. His forefather, his grandfather, lived for, say, hundred years. His father lived for eighty years. And he's going to live for sixty years. In this way, the duration of life will be reduced up to twenty years. That is already foretold. If a man lives for twenty to thirty years, he will be considered very old man. That day is coming. Because how they will live? There is no eating, there is no sleeping. There is no fixture of this program. These are required. Annad bhavanti bhutani [Bg. 3.14]. Simply by dry lecture, how they will feel happy? There must be sufficient food grains so that people may live happily, the animal may live happily. Especially in India you will see. No animal is fatty, either cat, dog or cow. They have no eating. So annad bhavanti bhutani. They must be given sufficient food, annad. Krsna does not say that "You fast and chant Hare Krsna." He does not say. Krsna is not so impractical. He says, "Eat very nicely, keep very nicely, and chant Hare Krsna. Make your life successful." That is Hare Krsna consciousness movement. Krsna consciousness movement is not one-sided. It is all-embracing. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Krsna consciousness movement wants to see everyone happy. Without being happy, how you can remain peaceful? That is not possible.

Therefore bhagavan uvaca. You take lessons from Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, perfect, all-perfect. What he will do by hearing this rascal or that rascal? Try to hear from the Supreme Personality without any fault, without any deviation. There are four kinds of defects in conditional life: to commit mistake, to be illusioned... Bhrama, pramada, vipra-lipsa. To cheat, propensity for cheating. And imperfection of senses. So we are all infected with these four deficiencies of life, material condition of life. Therefore mukta means one who is liberated from these defects. Those who are infected with these defects, they cannot give you perfect knowledge. That is not possible. Imperfectness of senses -- how he can gather perfect knowledge? They can simply say, "Perhaps," "It may be," "Most probably." That's all. Theories. Nobody can say, "It is like this." Just like in the Vedas it is said how many different varieties of lives are there. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati, krmayo rudra-sankhyakah. Exact number, that so many varieties of lives are there. Nine hundred thousand species life in the water. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. Two million varieties of trees, plants, like that. Krmayo rudra-sankhyakah. Eleven lakhs varieties of insects. Paksinam dasa-laksanam. There are ten, one million types of birds. Similarly, three million types of animals, and four hundred thousand different types of humankind. Everything is exactly calculated. That is called Vedic knowledge. Because it is... How the perfection of knowledge comes? Here it is said, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham [Bg. 4.1]. Krsna says. Aham avyayam. The knowledge is perfect. Avyayam. Avyayam means "that cannot be diverse or deviated." Perfect. Avyayam. Without any deviation. Therefore if you want to know perfect knowledge, then you have to hear from Krsna.

Therefore bhagavan uvaca. Bhagavan means the most powerful, most influential, the supreme wise, most beautiful, most learned, most renouncer. Just see Bhagavan's renouncement. If we construct a building, how much attached we become to that building. But Krsna has constructed this whole universe. Whole universe means... We have no idea what is the universe. We have no idea what is this planet. We are trying to go to the moon planet. We have no exact idea even of the moon planet. And there are innumerable planets. Vasudha. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-kotisu vasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Each planet is of different type, different climate, different facilities, different standard of life. And there are ananta, innumerable planets. You cannot count even. So this is only one universe, and there are millions of universes. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. So Krsna, or the Supreme Lord, is creator of these all universes. Still, He does not come here. He comes occasionally. But He does not claim. You utilize. He has given to you. "You living entities, you wanted to enjoy this material world. All right, I give you. Enjoy." Beginning from Brahma, down to the ant, they're enjoying, and they're creating their own karma-phala. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. And because he's creating his karma-phala, he's getting another body. Sometimes the ant's body, sometimes Brahma's body, sometimes cat's body, sometimes American body, sometimes Indian body, sometimes monkey's body. In this way, we are wandering all over the universes. This is called disease, material disease. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9].

So one who is wise, one who is learned, he should try to understand how to get out of this cycle of birth and death, repetition of birth and death. Now you have got this American body, very nice -- rich nation's body. And we have got Indian body. That's all right. But what is the next life? That the people do not know. Just like you prepare by education for the future life. What you are preparing for the next life? They do not know, there is no..., whether there is life or not. Such a fool we are that we do not know. Therefore we have to hear from the perfect person, Krsna. Krsna says, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. That is the first instruction. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih.

So this is the beginning of spiritual education. Dehantara-praptih. We have to change this body, transmigrate from this body to another body. That's a subtle way, but no university teaches how the soul is transferred from one body to another, what kind of body you are going to get next. There is no such science. But that is the real problem. Therefore we have to hear from Krsna, Bhagavan, the Supreme, the person who can give you perfect knowledge. That is the process. If you really want knowledge, you have to hear from Krsna. And Krsna is so kind, He came personally.

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham
[Bg. 4.7]

He comes. He's so kind. He comes, He gives personally instruction, and He leaves the instruction recorded. Just like Bhagavad-gita. This Bhagavad-gita was spoken by Krsna to Arjuna, and it was recorded by Sanjaya, by the grace of Vyasadeva. And then Vyasadeva put the conversation in the Mahabharata. Mahabharata means "The History of Greater India." That is Mahabharata. The whole planet is called Bharata, Bharatavarsa. And the history of the whole planet is called Mahabharata. In this Mahabharata, this Bhagavad-gita is set in for the knowledge of the all human being. It is not meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, for the brahmanas, for the... No. It is meant for everyone to take perfect knowledge from Krsna and be happy. If you want to become happy actually, then Krsna's instruction you accept. We are already fallen. Now if we want to save ourselves from this fallen condition, take instruction from Krsna and do not try to deviate, do not try to interpret in your own whimsical way, in a rascal way. Simply try to understand what Krsna says. That's all. Then your life will be perfect.

Therefore Krsna says, "Try to understand this Bhagavad-gita in this process." What is that? Imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. "I first of all spoke to the sun-god, Vivasvan." Vivasvan. The sun is there. Nobody knows what is there in the sun. The so-called scientists, philosophers... But there is possibility to talk with the sun-god personally. That is possible. You can also go. You can also talk, provided you become qualified by Krsna's grace. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He can go anywhere. It is not that because the fiery planet... Sun planet is fiery planet. The body there, the body is made of fire there. Just like here the body's made of earth. Similarly, there are planets where the body's made of water, the body's made of fire, because these are the material elements. Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh [Bg. 7.4]. Either earth, water, fire, air... They are all material things. So I may have got a suitable body to live in this material, or this earthly planet. The fish has got a certain body to live in the water. You cannot live in the water. The fish cannot live on the land. That does not mean that it is impossible to live in the water. Similarly, because you cannot live in the fire, that does not mean for others it is impossible. This is foolishness. This is foolishness. The sun planet is there. It is made of fire. The bodies are so suitably made that those who have got this body, they can live there. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-kotisu vasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Vibhuti. The atmosphere is different in every planet. Just like the atmosphere in the water is different from the land, but we know there are living entities within the water, on the land, on the air, within the earth, within the ether. Everywhere there is. Sarva-ga. Therefore living entity is called sarva-ga. The body is differently made. The spirit soul is the same. Your spirit soul, my spirit soul, is the same. But your body is called American body, my body is called Indian body. That is the difference. Just like you have got a different dress. I have got a different dress. Vasamsi jirnani yatha vi... The body is just like dress.

So first spiritual knowledge is this, that "I am not this body." Then the spiritual knowledge begins. Otherwise there is no possibility of spiritual knowledge. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. One who is thinking, "This body I am. This, I am, myself," he's a rascal, animal. That's all. This rascal animalism (is) going on all over the world. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brahmana," "I am ksatriya." This is rascaldom. You have to go above this. Then there is spiritual knowledge. That is bhakti-yoga.

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]

Aham brahmasmi. This is required. So in order to understand this yoga system, bhakti-yoga... Because only by bhakti-yoga you can come to the spiritual platform. Aham brahmasmi. Naham vipro... Just Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, naham vipro na ksatriya... What is that sloka?

Devotee: Kiba vipra kiba nyasi...

Prabhupada: "I am not a brahmana, I am not a ksatriya, I am not a ksatriya, I am not a sudra. I am not a brahmacari, I am not a grhastha, I am not a vanaprastha..." Because our Vedic civilization is based on varna and asrama. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied all these things: "I do not belong to any one of these." Then what is Your position? Gopi-bhartuh pada-kamalayor dasa-dasanudasah: [Cc. Madhya 13.80] "I am eternally servant of the maintainer of the gopis." That means Krsna. And He preached: jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our identification. We are eternal servant of Krsna. Therefore the servants who have rebelled against Krsna, they have come to this material world. Therefore, to reclaim these servants, Krsna comes. And Krsna says,

paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
dharma-samsthapanarthaya
sambhavami yuge yuge
[Bg. 4.8]

Krsna comes. He's so kind.

So let us take advantage of Krsna's coming here, leaving behind Him this Bhagavad-gita, and read it perfectly, and make your life perfect. That is Krsna consciousness movement. It is not a bogus movement. It is a most scientific movement. So outside India, these European, Americans, they are taking advantage of it. Why not these Indian youths? What is the wrong there? This is not good. Let us join together, start this Krsna consciousness movement very seriously, and deliver this suffering humanity. That is our purpose. They are suffering for want of knowledge. Everything is there, complete. Simply by mismanagement... Simply by the... It is being managed by the rogues and thieves. Take. You become perfect in Krsna consciousness and take the management and make your life successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (pause) So you can announce that I shall speak here every... (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.1 -- Bombay, March 21, 1974

"Servant Of God Or Dog"

"Servant Of God Or Dog"

69/01/01 Los Angeles, Bhagavad-gita 3.41-43


Tamala Krsna: We're reading from Bhagavad-gita As It Is, in the chapter entitled Karma-Yoga, page 104, verse thirty-one. "One who executes his duty according to My injunction and who follows this teaching faithfully becomes free from the bondage of fruitive actions [Bg. 3.31]. Purport: This injunction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna is the essence of all Vedic wisdom."

Prabhupada: Yes. What is Vedic wisdom? Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg. 15.15]. Knowledge. Veda means knowledge. What is perfect knowledge? Perfect knowledge is that "My constitutional position is to serve." Bring any man in this world. Who can say that "I am not servant"? Is there any man or woman within this world, within this universe, who is not a servant? Can anyone of you say that you are not servant? Is there anyone? Everyone is servant. Somebody is servant of the society, somebody is servant of the country, somebody is servant of his wife or family, or some cats and dogs, ultimately. One must be a servant.

So when a man comes to this knowledge, that "I am serving. Why not serve the Supreme?" this is knowledge. This is perfection of knowledge. Nobody can be freed from being a servant. Either you become a servant of God or you become a servant of dog, you must be a servant. So the intelligent person, a wise person, he prefers to servant of God instead of becoming servant of dog.

There is no escape, that one cannot..., one is master. Nobody is master. Everyone is servant. "Therefore one who executes his duties according to My injunction," God's injunctions, "and who follows the teachings faithfully becomes free from bondage." As soon as you become servant to somebody besides God, then you are in bondage. You are in obligation. Obligation there is, but that is not bondage. To become servant of God is not bondage. But servant of dog is a bondage.

So the intelligent person is he who knows that "I am servant, so why not become servant of the greatest?" Just like somebody wants to be worker in government service. Why? Because government is very big establishment, great establishment. He has got many facilities. That is not bondage. Similarly, why not become the servant of the supreme government? That is perfection of knowledge. So long we are not servant of God, that means we are deficient in knowledge. And perfect knowledge is to become servant of God. Because you cannot escape by not being a servant. Everyone has to become a servant, this side or that side. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: "As the Vedas are eternal, so this truth of Krsna consciousness is also eternal. One should have firm faith in this injunction without envying the Lord. There are many so-called philosophers who write comment on the Bhagavad-gita but who have no faith in Krsna. They will never be liberated from the bondage of fruitive actions. But an ordinary man with firm faith in the eternal injunctions of the Lord, even though unable to execute such orders, becomes liberated from the bondage of the law of karma. In the beginning of Krsna consciousness, one may not fully discharge the injunctions of the Lord. But because one is not resentful of this principle and works sincerely without consideration of defeat and hopelessness, he will surely be promoted to the stage of pure Krsna consciousness."

Prabhupada: Yes. In the beginning there may be some failures. That is quite natural. Just a child is trying to stand, he may fall down. But that does not mean he should give up the idea. Go on. A time will come come when he will be perfect. So we should not give up this business, to try to serve the Supreme. May be imperfect in the beginning, but stick to it, and a time will come when you'll be perfect, Krsna conscious.

Tamala Krsna: Thirty-two: "But those who, out of envy, disregard these teachings and do not practice them regularly are to be considered bereft of all knowledge, befooled, and doomed to ignorance and bondage [Bg. 3.32]."

Prabhupada: Yes. If somebody says, "Oh, why shall I serve God?" all right, then you shall have to serve dog. That's all. Therefore he is befooled. He does not know that he has to serve somebody. His constitutional position is like that. He cannot escape. So therefore if he denies to serve God, Krsna, then he has to serve maya, illusion, in the hope that "I have become the master."

Just like in your country the President Johnson was the master. Actually, he was not the master; he was the servant of the country. Now the country has dismissed him. He is no longer master. So our mastership in this material world is like that. Actually, we are servant, but we are thinking master. In a family, I am servant of my wife, I am servant of my children, I am servant of my servants, but I am thinking I am master. "I am master of this family. I am master of this country. I am master of this society." Nobody is master.

The Caitanya-caritamrta says, therefore, "The master is only Krsna." Ekale isvara krsna ara saba bhrtya: [Cc. Adi 5.142] "Only Krsna, or God, is master, and everyone is servant." Yare yaiche nacaya se taiche kare nrtya: "Each servant is dancing according to the order of the Supreme." That's all. Nobody is master. So this false conception of becoming master is called maya, illusion. Nobody is master. Therefore one who disagrees to become servant of God, he is befooled. It is said, "But those who, out of envy..." He is constitutionally servant, but he is envious: "Why shall I become God's servant? I shall become God." You see? Everyone is claiming, "Oh, everyone is God. Why? What is the use of becoming servant of God? I am God." This is enviousness. So if one refuses to serve God and become envious, "disregard these teachings and do not practice them regularly are to be considered bereft of all knowledge." Because he is servant, but he is thinking, "I am master. I am not serving anyone." This is maya, bereft of all knowledge. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Thirty-three: "Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows his nature. What can repression accomplish [Bg. 3.33]?"

Prabhupada: So at least he is servant of his nature. There are three kinds of material modes of nature. Somebody is in goodness; somebody is in passion; somebody is in ignorance. So in ignorance, somebody, say, he is intoxicated. He is servant of some intoxication. But he is thinking, after being intoxicated, "Oh, I am God. I am master." You see. This is called befooling him. He is befooled. He is servant of intoxication, and he is thinking, "I am God." Just see. Is it not a farce? By meditation, he will become God. If you are God, why you are meditating? Therefore they are befooled. The direct process is: take to Krsna consciousness -- "I am eternal servant of God. Let me take to this business. Finish." Perfect knowledge. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Thirty-four: "Attraction and repulsion for sense objects are felt by embodied beings, but one should not fall under the control of senses and sense objects because they are stumbling blocks on the path of self-realization [Bg. 3.34]."

Thirty-five: "It is far better to discharge one's own prescribed duties, even though they may be faulty, than another's duties. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous [Bg. 3.35]."

Thirty-six: "Arjuna said: O descendant of Vrsni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force [Bg. 3.36]?"

Prabhupada: Here Krsna says that "Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous." Now, Arjuna was a military man, a ksatriya. His business was to fight for the good cause. But in the battlefield he thought that "Why should I engage myself in this killing business? Better retire from it. If I don't get my kingdom, I shall rather beg." This begging business is for us.

Just like we are sannyasi, or a brahmana. We are allowed to beg. We are not, of course, begging as professional beggar, but we introduce ourself as beggar. The Vedic culture is that a sannyasi, when he comes to beg in a householder's house, he receives him very respectfully, and whatever he wants, they want to supply. But they do not want anything, but the introduction is that they take this opportunity of sitting in a householder's home and talk about Krsna consciousness. That is their real business. They are not beggars.

Anyway, this begging business is not for a householder or a military man. Therefore Krsna say that "Don't try to imitate the business of a sannyasi or a brahmana. You are ksatriya. Your duty is to fight, so you should follow your own prescribed duty. Don't try to imitate others." But one can attain perfection by being engaged in his own occupation, provided he does it in Krsna consciousness. So Krsna is asking him to fight, and he is a professional fighter. So if he fights in accordance with the order of Krsna, there is his perfection. This is the purport. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Purport: "A living entity, as part and parcel of the Supreme Personality, is originally spiritual and pure, as well as free from all contaminations of matter. Therefore, by nature the living entity is not subjected to the sins of the material world, but factually when the living entity is in contact with the material nature, he acts in many sinful ways without hesitation. As such, Arjuna's question to Krsna is very sanguine as to the perverted nature of the living entity. Although the living entity sometimes does not want to act in sin, he is still forced to act. This force is not, however, impelled by the Supersoul living within the living entity, but must be due to other causes, and that is explained in the next verse by the Lord."

Thirty-seven: "The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world [Bg. 3.37]."

Prabhupada: Yes. Passion, if you increase your passion, then when you cannot fulfill your passion, you'll be angry, wrath, one after another. So this is due to our being situated in the modes of passion.

As I have told you, there are three kinds of modes of material nature. One is goodness, one is passion, and one is ignorance. So ignorance is the lowest quality, passion is still better than ignorance, and goodness is the highest good quality within this material world. And one has to transcend even goodness. Then he can go to the Krsna consciousness platform. So one should not remain on the platform of passion. He should try to rise on the platform of goodness, and from there he should try to be promoted in Krsna consciousness. This is one method. But if you take to Krsna consciousness directly, then automatically you transcend the platform of ignorance, passion, and goodness. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Thirty-eight: "As fire is converted by smoke... As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, similarly the living entity is covered by different degrees of this... [Bg. 3.38]"

Prabhupada: Lust. Different degrees of lust. Those who are in the modes of goodness, their lust is a different quality. Those who are in passion, their lust is in different quality. Those who are ignorance, their lust is different quality. It is the question...

Just like there are first-class prisoner, second-class prisoner and third-class prisoner. So after all, they are prisoners, maybe first-class, second-class or third-class. That doesn't matter. Similarly, within this material world somebody may be very learned, rich, beautiful, all good qualifications, in the modes of goodness. So they... Or somebody is passion and somebody in lower degree, even animal life. But they are all prisoners within this material world.

One has to transcend this position. One has to transcend even the so-called goodness of the material world. Just like Arjuna was trying to be so-called good man of this material world. He was trying to avoid the injunction of Krsna. Krsna wanted him that "You should fight this Kuruksetra battle," but he wanted to be good man. So that fighting, when he was convinced of Krsna's instruction, this Bhagavad-gita, that means he transcended even the goodness platform of this material world. So Krsna is trying to raise him to the... traigunya-visaya veda nistraigunyo bhavarjuna. This whole material atmosphere is surcharged with three modes of material nature. So one has to transcend the modes of material nature. Just like one should not try to become a first-class prisoner. In the prisonhouse, if one is a third-class prisoner and one is first-class prisoner, the third-class prisoner should not aspire that "Let me remain in this prisonhouse and become a first-class prisoner." That is not good. One should transcend the prison walls or come out of the prisonhouse. That is his aim. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Purport: "There are three degrees of covering of the pure living entity, and thereby the pure consciousness of the living entity, or Krsna consciousness, is embarrassed by nonmanifestation. This covering is but lust under different manifestations, like smoke in the fire, dust on the mirror, and the womb about the embryo. When lust is compared to smoke, it is understood that the fire of the living spark can be a little perceived. In other words, when the living entity exhibits his Krsna consciousness slightly, he may be likened to the fire covered by smoke. Although fire is necessary when there is smoke, there is no overt manifestation of fire in the early stage. This stage can be compared with the beginning of Krsna consciousness. The comparison of the dust of the mirror refers to the cleansing process of the mirror of the mind by so many spiritual methods. The best process is to chant the holy names of the Lord. The comparison of the embryo being covered by the womb is an analogy illustrating the most awkward position, for the child in the womb is so helpless that it cannot even move. This stage of living condition can be compared also to the trees. The trees are living entities, but they have been put into that condition of life by such a great exhibition of lust that they are almost devoid of all consciousness."

Prabhupada: Yes, these trees... We should know that the trees, they are also living entities, but they have been put in such awkward position that they are standing up in a position for thousands of years. They cannot move even. If somebody is cutting, it cannot protest. They have been put into such conditional life. If somebody is coming to do some harm, they cannot go away. So the most abominable condition of life is the trees. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: "The covered mirror is compared to the birds and beasts, and smoke-covered fire is compared to the human being."

Prabhupada: Yes. The birds and beasts, they can move. They can protect themselves from somebody who is coming to harm, but still, they have no knowledge. The same... A little better than the trees. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: "In the form of a human being, the living entity can perceive a little Krsna consciousness, and if he makes further development the fire of spiritual life can be kindled in the human form. By careful handling of the smoke in the fire, the fire can be made to blaze."

Prabhupada: Yes. When the fire is covered by the smoke, if you little fan over it, then immediately there is blazing fire; immediately smoke is gone. Similarly, Krsna consciousness, or God consciousness, in every living entity, especially human being, there is, even in the aborigines, those who are called uncivilized. They are also offering some respect to the seas, to the thunderbolt, to a big mountain. Something wonderful, they offer. They bow down. That means there is Krsna consciousness, so, just like a fire covered with smoke. Now, if you fan it, if you just try to eradicate the smoke, the fire will come out.

So we should take advantage. We have got now this consciousness, God consciousness. Therefore in every human society there is some sort of religious propaganda: "Try to understand God." So we should take advantage of this. But instead of taking advantage of this opportunity, we have declared, "God is dead. I am God. This God, that God." You see? So we are not fanning. We are, rather, going more and more away from God. This should not be done. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: "Therefore the human form of life is a chance for the living entity to escape the entanglement of material existence. In the human form of life one can conquer the enemy, lust, by culture of Krsna consciousness under able guidance."

Thirty-nine: "Thus a man's pure consciousness is covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire [Bg. 3.39]."

Forty: "The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust, which veils the real knowledge of the living entity and bewilders him [Bg. 3.40]."

Prabhupada: Yes. This is very important. "The senses, the mind, and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust." If somebody is lusty, and if one has to search out where that enemy, lust, is there, so Krsna is giving you direct information, "Here is your enemy." Where? Senses, mind, intelligence -- there is lust. So if you can understand, "Here is the enemy," and if you try to drive out the enemy, you take precaution.

What is that precaution? You engage your senses in Krsna conscious activities. The lust will have no more place to attack your senses or sit on your senses. You engage your mind in Krsna. Immediately the lust from the mind will go away. Similarly, you apply your intelligence, how to work on Krsna consciousness. These are the processes.

The Krsna consciousness movement is like that. Apply your intelligence, apply your mind, apply your senses only for Krsna, and there is no more lust. You are free. There is no sitting place. Just like this glass. There is water. So how you can put in ink? Because there is no sitting place. Similarly, if you place Krsna in your mind, so lust will automatically go away. Just like if you place light in this room, the darkness automatically will go away. There is no place for darkness. Krsna is light. The sun is light. As soon as there is sun rising, the whole darkness of night automatically disappears. So try to place Krsna in your mind, in your sensual activities, in your intelligence. Then there will be no more lust. It will be finished. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Forty-one: "Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the Bharatas, in the very beginning, curb the great symbol of sin, lust, by regulating the senses and slay this destroyer of knowledge and self-realization [Bg. 3.41]."

Prabhupada: Yes. Regulating, how can you regulate the senses? Not by artificial means. The yoga practice, of course, is meant for controlling the senses but nobody can practice in this age perfectly yoga, neither one can control the senses. But this is practically. Just like our sense, tongue. We want to taste very palatable dishes. Now you supply palatable Krsna prasadam. You forget going to hotel immediately. This sort of process is in Krsna consciousness. We don't simply prohibit that "You don't do this," but we supply something which is engaged by the senses and the mind, the intelligence, so that you do not require to be engaged otherwise.

Positive and negative. Simply negative is no good unless there is positive engagement. So there is no question of negative. Negative is already there. If you taking nice foodstuff, automatically you give up obnoxious and nonsense foodstuff. But if I say, "Don't take this foodstuff. This is not good," and if I don't supply you nice foodstuff, naturally you are hungry; you will have to take whatever is there.

Just like sometimes you have seen the dogs? They are eating stool, their own stool. So I was talking this. One of my students told me that in the last war in the concentrated camp, the human being, they also ate their stool out of hunger. You see? There was no food, so they ate their own stool. So when there is no opportunity of good occupation, one must be satisfied with nonsense occupation. So this Krsna consciousness is so nice that one who is occupied with this movement, he cannot go any more to so-called lusty and other nonsense occupation. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Forty-two: "The working senses are superior to dull matter. Mind is higher than the senses. Intelligence is still higher than the mind, and he, the soul, is even higher than intelligence [Bg. 3.42]."

Prabhupada: So we have to come to the platform of soul. Generally, we are on the dull, material platform of this body, and this body means senses. And the center of all the senses is the mind. And the mind is also controlled by intelligence. And when you go above the platform intelligence, then you come to the platform of spiritual soul or Krsna consciousness. That is your position. So one has to try to transcend all these three stages of material platform and then come to the spiritual platform. Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Forty-three: "Thus knowing oneself to be transcendental to material senses, mind, and intelligence, one should control the lower self by the higher self, and thus, by spiritual strength, conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust [Bg. 3.43]."

Purport: "This third chapter of the Bhagavad-gita is conclusively directed to Krsna consciousness through knowing oneself as the eternal servitor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without considering impersonal voidness as the ultimate end. In the material existence of life, one is certainly influenced by propensities of lust and desire for dominating the resources of material nature. Such desire for overlording and sense gratification are the greatest enemies of the conditioned soul, but by the..."

Prabhupada: Generally, those who are under the bodily concept of life, they are struggling day and night. Why? Now, to have overlordship of this material nature. This is material activities. And those who are on the mental platform, they are trying to philosophize, mental speculation. Those who are still intelligent, they are taking to this yoga practice by intelligently trying to controlling the senses. But as soon as you come to the spiritual platform, automatically these things are done because all your senses, mind, and intelligence are occupied by Krsna consciousness. Go on. Yes, go on.

Tamala Krsna: "One may not give up work and prescribed duties all of a sudden, but by factually developing one's Krsna consciousness, one can be situated in a transcendental position, without being influenced by the material senses and the mind, by steady intelligence directed towards one's pure identity. This is the sum total of this chapter. In the immature stage of material existence, philosophical speculation and artificial attempts to control the senses by the so-called practice of yogic postures can never help a man toward spiritual life. He must be trained in Krsna consciousness by higher intelligence."

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports to the Third Chapter of the Srimad Bhagavad-gita in the matter of karma-yoga, or the acting of one's prescribed duty in Krsna consciousness."

Prabhupada: Thank you. Any questions? Yes?

Madhudvisa: Prabhupada? In your purport of the thirty-eighth verse you were talking about returning to the position of a tree, how it is put into this position due to its previous engagement, exhibition of lust.

Prabhupada: Page, page.

Madhudvisa: On page 106.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just read it. Where?

Madhudvisa: "The comparison of the embryo being covered by the womb is an allegory illustrating the most awkward position of the child in the womb, who is so helpless that it cannot even move. This stage of living condition can be compared also to the trees. The trees are living entities, but they have been put into that condition of life by such a great exhibition of lust that they are almost devoid of consciousness."

Prabhupada: Yes. So what is your question?

Madhudvisa: People that are engaged in lusty acts during their life... I thought that Krsna is merciful and He will provide them with the body which will have as much lust as they want. I can't see how a person could devolve into that body of a tree due to engaging himself in lusty activities during his lifetime.

Prabhupada: I don't follow, what is...

Madhudvisa: The Bhagavad-gita has stated that whatever one's consciousness is during his lifetime will be at the time of his death, and that will determine his next body. Now, one who is living very lustily during his lifetime, his mind will be on that body.

Prabhupada: Yes. So there are many varieties of life. Just like somebody is very lusty, and he wants sex enjoyment so many times a day. So there are many animals, many birds. They are given the opportunity like that. Just like the pigeons, the sparrows. Or there are many birds, the swans, the ducks. They have got every day twenty times, sex intercourse. So this facility is given to them. You see? Similarly, somebody wants to eat meats and blood. He is given the chance to become a tiger. So Krsna is giving chance everyone. And one who is very dull, cannot understand simply, oh, the sense gratification, they are made the dullest possible, like trees, stand up for thousands of years.

So all these different varieties of life, eight million four-hundred-thousands, we have got different varieties. You can calculate. There are three qualities. Three into three equal to nine. Three multiplied by three becomes nine, and nine multiplied by nine becomes eighty-one. Automatically it becomes more than so many, eight million.

So God's kingdom, His calculation, His fine judgement, is very difficult to understand. But practically we see there are so many varieties of life. Why? They have been given chance: "All right, you want this sort of life? Here it is. Take it. Accept it." So they are transmigrating from one life to another, one life to another, one life to another. Out of many such millions of living entities, one who comes under Krsna consciousness by the grace of Krsna and His devotee, spiritual master, his life is successful. He gets the clue to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise he is to travel within these 8,400,000 species of life.

So Krsna is giving chance, whatever you want, but He is talking also the ultimate goal of life. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up this searching out of your happiness in your own way, by transmigrating from one kind of life to another, one position to another. You just take shelter of Me, and I take charge of you." This is the whole proposition of Bhagavad-gita. This is Krsna consciousness. One has to give up searching out of happiness according to his own plan, but he has to submit himself to Krsna, who will take charge and He will give you all happiness that you desire. That is Krsna consciousness.

Jaya Gopala: Are the people in this age lusty in the modes of ignorance or are they lusty in all three modes?

Prabhupada: Anyone who is in the material world, he is lusty. Maybe difference of degrees. That doesn't matter. But he is lusty. Kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah. Everyone is trying to lord it over the material nature. That is lust. Now, the ant is trying to lord it over the material nature in his own way, and the big politician, he is trying to lord it over the material nature in a different way. Everyone is trying. So that lording it over the material nature is a sign of lust. So you can take it for granted that anyone who is within this material world, he has got that contamination of lust, maybe manifested in different degrees.

But who has come to Krsna consciousness, he has no more lust because he wants to satisfy Krsna. He doesn't want to satisfy his senses. That is Krsna consciousness. His aim of life is how Krsna will be pleased. That's all. And lust means "how my senses will be satisfied." That is the difference. The process of satisfying is going on. In our conditioned life we are trying to satisfy our senses, and in our Krsna consciousness life we are satisfying to please Krsna. That is the difference. So my work is not stopped, but the goal of life is changed. That is liberation.

We don't say that you kill your desire. No. You purify your desire to satisfy Krsna. That's all. Now your desire is to satisfy your senses. That's all. This has to be purified, that you shall desire, but you shall desire to satisfy Krsna. Then your perfection is there.

In one way it is very simple and easy because I know how to satisfy my senses. I am doing it life after life. The same endeavor should be engaged for satisfying Krsna. That's all. The process has not to be learned by me. I know it. Simply account has to be changed. That's all. So Krsna consciousness is very simple and easy. Immediately you come to the spiritual platform, or transcendental platform.

That is explained in the Caitanya-caritamrta: lust and love, what is the difference between lust and love. In the material world there is no love. Because everyone is directed by lust. The so-called love... A young boy is trying to love a young girl, or young girl is trying to love a young..., but the background is lust. There is no love. It is simply a show of love. Therefore, after satisfying lust, there is divorce, there is separation. So in the material world there is no possibility of love. It is all lust. Love is only possible when you love God. There is no lust. There is no question of sense gratification. Simply for love: "Krsna is my lover. Krsna is my master. Krsna is my friend."

Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is loving Krsna as friend. So he is so great lover that in the beginning he hesitated to fight, "How shall I kill my kinsmen?" But when he understood, "Krsna, my friend, desires. Oh, never mind." So there was no lust. Simply love of Krsna. So lust and love, that means the same thing is there. Simply one has to change the account. That's all. Lusty people, they are working on account of sense gratification, and lover of Krsna is working for Krsna's satisfaction. The activity may appear superficially the same.

Just like these boys in Krsna consciousness. People may say, "What they are doing? They are also eating, they are also cooking, and offering Krsna, and they say it is Krsna conscious. What is the difference between this foodstuff with the hotel foodstuff?" In this way they may think. "Oh, they are also typewriting, they are also using dictaphone and this tape recorder and all this material." But they do not know that everything is being used for Krsna. Therefore there is far different. There is no lust. So you can utilize everything if it is in Krsna consciousness, not for satisfaction of your lust. Then your life is sublime.

We do not reject anything, but we accept anything. The only difference is that we do not accept anything for our sense gratification. We do not accept this tape recorder for sense gratification, singing or dancing. We accept this tape recorder to record Krsna's glories, to record Krsna's topics. So this is the difference only. Nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate. Dovetail everything in Krsna consciousness, and it is perfect.

And dovetail anything with your lust or sense gratification? Apparently, it may be very good, nice thing, but it is nonsense; it is lust. So somebody is using religion for satisfaction of his senses, somebody is using Bhagavad-gita for satisfaction of his senses. We do not wish to discuss all this in detail, but actually there is no training how to use things in Krsna consciousness. That is being now introduced in this movement, Krsna consciousness, how to make everything perfect, dovetail in Krsna consciousness. So any other questions?

Makhanlal: In the living entities such as the trees, which are very much limited in consciousness and ability to move also, are these... It mentions in the purports that they have been very lusty. This tends to show that they have been once before in human form and then have really fallen. But is it also the case that there are, amongst the forms, many souls that are on the process of evolution and going upward in the same way?

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like you are stepping some staircases. You go to the second floor or third floor, but some way or other, you fall down again. So you have to cross again the steps. Do you follow? That does not mean because you crossed all the steps and went to the third floor... Now you have fallen down. You have to cross again.

So there is a regular evolutionary process from trees to worms, reptiles, from reptiles to birds, from birds to beasts, varieties of beasts, and from beasts to human life. These are the stepping stone, evolutionary process. But even if you are human being, if you fall down to the category of the trees, then you have to again go up step by step. You have to come to the form of the worms and reptiles, then birds, then beasts.

Therefore we should not miss this chance. This is intelligence. If I miss this chance, then I do not know where I am falling down again. So there is no teaching. There is no knowledge in the whole world. They are driven out just like animals. This educational institution, universities -- there is no department of knowledge how the living entities are working, how they are being transmigrated, they are falling down, how they are... No. A very risky civilization. So people should try to understand this Krsna consciousness philosophy very seriously if they at all want their own good.

Bhaktijana: What's the next evolutionary step for these flowers that we offer to Krsna?

Prabhupada: From trees, the worms. Do you see from the flower there are some butterflies. You have seen? The flowers generates some worms, and they transform into butterfly. You have seen it. Then gradually they'll become birds from butterfly. And from birds, different birds, then they'll become beast, four-legged. And then the four legs turn into two hands and just like gorilla, monkey. Then he will come to this beautiful form. And if you miss this opportunity, again you want to become butterfly, go on. Who will check you? Become butterfly. Nature will not excuse you. As soon as you want to become butterfly, "Yes, come on. Here is..." (laughter) They do not know. They are thinking, "This is a flickering lamp. Oh, let us enjoy." Very risky civilization. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati.

These are all stated in the Puranas. These books were meant for human society. They are not reading. They are reading all rascal novels and literatures and sex life, frauds, and this and that, books. How they are wasting their time! The other day Govinda dasi was showing me one literature, Hawaii picture. The boys and girls, they are enjoying this, what is called?

Tamala Krsna: Surfing.

Prabhupada: Surface. Spending money. You see? But there is no instruction how they are wasting their time, this human form of life, simply by jumping in the water. (laughter) And they are thinking, "I am enjoying, butterfly." You see? They do not know the value of this life. And the system of civilization who is encouraging them to do this without any good information, what kind of condemned civilization is that? Pulling by force to the darkest region of hell. They do not know although the hellish condition of life is in the front. There are so many varieties of life. They do not question, "Wherefrom these lives come?"

The Padma Purana says, jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati, krmayor rudra-sankhyakah. There are, nava-laksani, 900,000 species of life within the water. We begin our aquatic life. Because the whole world was in the beginning, full of water, so we had to live within the water. So there are 900,000 species of life within the water. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. And when the water dries up, as soon as the land comes out, the trees and plants begin to grow, two million types of trees and plants. In this way there are 8,400,000 species of life.

What do they know, the botanists and the biologists? So it is very serious. People should take it very seriously, Krsna consciousness movement. It is not a humbug thing. It is based on authorized scriptures, Vedic literatures. Unfortunately, we have no customer for this knowledge. Yes?

Bhaktijana: Doesn't Krsna take any special mercy of flowers that are offered to Him?

Prabhupada: Yes. When it is offered to Krsna. Yes. Therefore we offer flowers to Krsna. We are doing service to the flowers.

Bhaktijana: Where will they take their next birth? They don't become butterflies.

Prabhupada: That may be understood later on. First of all, because it has come to Krsna, there is something good. The tree which has produced this flower, he is benefited because he is offering his energy. Krsna consciousness means offering one's energy to Krsna. The energy is derived from Krsna; it should be offered to Krsna. Just like what is this water? Water is taken from the ocean, derived from the ocean. It goes to the sky, again turns into water, falls down, and in river goes down again to the ocean. Similarly, we have derived our energy from Krsna. Now again if we glide down towards Krsna, that is perfection. We haven't got separate energy. This is Krsna consciousness, to apply the whole energy towards Krsna. That's all. That energy may be utilized in different ways -- but to Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness. Chant Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 3.31-43 -- Los Angeles, January 1, 1969

"Tiger or President - Full of Anxiety"

"Tiger or President - Full of Anxiety"

74/06/27 Melbourne, Bhagavad-gita 3.27


(Town Hall)

Prabhupada: (leads chanting of "om namo bhagavate vasudevaya")

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma
kartaham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]

Krsna says that all these living entities... We are all living entities... Actually, every one of us is spirit soul, living entities. It does not matter whether I am a human being or other than human being, lower animals, birds, beasts, trees or higher celestial beings. There are many varieties of life. 8,400,000. Nine... Jalaja nava-laksani. In the water there are living entities of 900,000 varieties. We simply know that there are some fishes and crocodiles or sharks in the water, but sastra, Vedic sastras, they give definite information, how many forms and varieties of life are there within the water: 900,000. How many we have seen? Our scientists, our botanists, how many they have seen? So actually you cannot have perfect knowledge by the experimental method.

Now, if I say... I don't say, but the sastra says there are 900,000 forms of aquatics. So you cannot say no because you have no experience. You have no experience. But from the sastra, Vedic literature, we get this information, Padma Purana. We are not speaking unauthorizedly. The sastras are accepted by the acaryas, the great teachers. And we get knowledge from the sastra. I may be imperfect, but I get knowledge from the perfect source. That is perfect knowledge.

Just like a child may ask his father that "What is this?" because he is astonished that the sound is very loud. So the child may not know, so inquires from the father, "Father, what is this? So father says, "My dear child, this is microphone. And when you speak through this machine, your sound becomes louder." So the child takes the knowledge from the father, and if he repeats or he understands firmly, "My father has said. It is perfectly right," then his knowledge is perfect. The child may be imperfect.

So our Vedic process is like that. We do not make any research. It is not possible to come to the right knowledge by so-called research, because our senses are imperfect. Just like we see through the telescope and we come under certain conclusion, but the fact is that I am the same person seeing through the telescope, and telescope is also manufactured by me or by you. So machine is imperfect and my seeing power is also imperfect. Then how you can have perfect knowledge? The machine is created by a person who has got imperfect knowledge, and the seer is also a person; he is also imperfect. The imperfect person is seeing through the imperfect machine. Then how we can conclude perfect knowledge? This is not possible.

Therefore the method is, according to the Vedic knowledge, that if you want perfect knowledge, then you should approach the perfect person. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is the Vedic injunction. If you want perfect knowledge, then you must approach a perfect person, guru.

Now, at the present moment, there are so many gurus. How we will understand who is perfect? That is also another problem. So that perfection is... That I have already explained, that the child who has heard from his father that "This is microphone" and if he speaks that "This is microphone," then his knowledge is perfect. The child is not perfect, but because he has heard from the perfect authority, what he is speaking, although he is child, that is perfect. Similarly, this guru means who has heard from the perfect person. Therefore his knowledge is perfect, because he has heard. This is called parampara system or disciplic succession.

In this Bhagavad-gita you will find in the fourth chapter Krsna says, evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Parampara. Krsna is the original person, perfect, and He says,

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]

evam parampara-praptam
imam rajarsayo viduh
sa kaleneha mahata
yogo nastah parantapa
[Bg. 4.2]

Krsna is explaining to Arjuna. You will find these statements in the fourth chapter of Bhagavad-gita. Krsna said that "This perfect knowledge of yoga system as I am explaining in this..."

Now it is known, Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita means the, generally in this Western world they say, "Song of God." So Bhagavad-gita is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So He said that "This is not a new literature. Millions of years ago I spoke about this yoga system, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan... [Bg. 4.1]. Proktavan means, "I said." Whom? Vivasvan. Vivasvan is the name of the sungod or the president of the sun planet.

Just like here in this planet we have got presidents in each country. So now there are so many presidents. Formerly even on this planet there was one president. They are trying to be united. The United Nation organization, they want to unite. For the last twenty years the United Nations are trying to unite, but the result is we are disunited. Instead of making one flag, the flags are increasing every year. "This is Pakistan, this is Hindustan, this is this, this is that, this is..." They are not united. How they can be united? They cannot be united because prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27], everyone is under the control of the material nature, full control. So, so long we are in the material world, controlled by the external material energy, there is no possibility of unity. That is not possible.

Because prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah. In prakrti, material nature, there are three different qualities: goodness, passion and ignorance. So all the varieties of life, they are under the control of the material nature and therefore you see varieties of life, varieties. There are three qualities. You multiply three into three. It becomes nine. And if you multiply nine into nine, you become, you see eighty-one. So therefore all these varieties of life, they are being controlled because... Not controlled. He accepts to be controlled. Prakrti does not want. Nature does not want to control you.

Just like police force. Police force is not meant for controlling you. But when you accept to be controlled by police, when you become a criminal, then police force controls you, not that police force is made by the government unnecessarily to control you. No. He's to help you. Government has arranged policeman in every crossing. They are wandering in the street. They are meant for helping you. They are not meant for controlling you. But when you agree to be controlled by the police, then it will control you. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. Then you become under the police control, if you become criminal. And what is that criminality? The criminality is that krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha. Krsna is the original enjoyer, God.

When I speak Krsna, it means God. God has got many names according to different religious system. But the real name is Kristo [pronounced "Kreesto"]. And you will be glad to understand that this Kristo, it is a Greek word, and it is a perverted pronunciation of Krsna, this Greek word. The meaning of Kristo in Sanskrit dictionary and the Greek dictionary always the same, about this word. And from this Kristo the word has got Christo or Christ. So even in Christian world the God's name is there. Jesus the Christ or Jesus the son of Kristo, or Krsna.

So Lord Jesus Christ said, "My Lord, hallowed be Thy name." He wants to glorify the name of the Lord. And some people says that there is no name of God. How? If Lord Jesus Christ says "Hallowed by Thy name," there must be name. The name is there, but he did not pronounce it because the people at that time will not be able to understand or maybe some reason, but he says there is name. So we are making this propaganda, Krsna consciousness movement, the "Hallowed by Thy name. My Lord Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, let Your holy name be glorified." This is our movement. It is not a sectarian...

It is very scientific movement, scientific movement because at the present moment we are all godless, forgotten what is God and what to speak of His name. They do not believe in God and what to speak of His name, fame, His place, His activities, His form, His qualities. How we can know? There is no educational system about the science of God. This movement, Krsna consciousness movement, is teaching the science of God. And if you accept the name of the God, name of God, Krsna -- this is also affirmed in other system also -- then you will be able to associate with God immediately. Because God is Absolute. Absolute means there is no difference.

Just like in the relative world... This is relative world. Material world means the relative world. Relative world means the son. As soon as I say "the son," there must be a father. As soon as I say, "friend," there must be another man, friend. As soon as I say, "water," there must be something as water. But in the Absolute world, the name water and the water is the same. This is called Absolute, no different separation. So in the kingdom of God, the God is God and His son is also God. There the everything -- there is no difference between the name and the substance. Here in this material world the name and the substance different.

Just like if I am thirsty, I want water, so the water must come to me. If I simply chant, "Water, water, water," that will not be effective, because it is relative world. But in the transcendental world, Krsna is the name of God and it is God also. So by chanting Hare Krsna, you are directly in contact with God. This is the meaning of Hare Krsna, directly in contact.

Now, if we imitate that "These boys and girls are chanting Hare Krsna. It is a name only. So let me chant... Instead of Krsna, let me chant John," but that chanting will not help you because you cannot chant more than three, four times or ten times, that's all. But this is the proof. And this Hare Krsna, this chanting, if you ask these boys and girls, they can chant continually for twenty-four hours in ecstasy, continually, without any stoppage. That is spiritual name. You cannot take any other name and chant and enjoy like that. So it is practical experience. I am touring all over the world, three times in a year, and because this chanting is Absolute, everyone is joining, Europe, America, Africa, Canada, Japan, China, everywhere. Nobody says that "This is a word from India. Why shall I chant the Indian name?" No. It is God's name. God is neither Indian nor American nor otherwise, neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is God.

So we are at the present moment rotting in this material world. Purusah prakrti-sthah. That is also mentioned in the thirteenth chapter. It is said that purusah prakrti-sthah. Where is that verse? (aside:) I told you to...

Purusah prakrti-sthah? Purusah prakrti-stho hi. Yes.

purusah prakrti-stho hi
bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan
karanam guna-sango 'sya
sad-asad-yoni-janmasu
[Bg. 13.22]

Purusa. Purusa means the enjoyer. Everyone of us sitting in this hall, we have got different mentality to enjoy differently, different dress, different mentality, different opinion, because everyone of us we are individual. So this individuality is both in spiritual world and the material world. But in the material world our individuality is different on account of associating or infecting different qualities of the material nature. Just like there are different types of patients in the hospital. Why? Because each and every one of them is infected by different types of germs of disease.

Here it is explained, purusa, the living entity, prakrti-stha, being in this material world. Prakrti means this material world. We do not belong to this material world. Just like a person in the prison house, he is a citizen, but when he goes into the prisonhouse, he has got different sense, different, I mean, punishment, different dress. They are also dressed differently. So similarly, we are all criminals. Criminals. What is that criminality? Because we have forgotten God. This is criminality.

Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare

(Prema-vivarta).

You will find in this practical experience. Suppose a boy is very rich man's son. But still, he thinks "Why shall I live under the rules and regulations of my father? Let me go out. I shall enjoy life freely." Freely, what freedom? You are already rich man's son. You can enjoy the property of your very, very rich powerful father, and what independence you will enjoy? This is criminality. This is criminality. We are sons of God, part and parcels of God, and God means almighty. So we have got almighty father, and leaving His place, I have come to this material world to enjoy independently. That is criminality. And we are suffering. That is explained here: prakrti-stha, "being placed in this material world," purusa, bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan, "he is enjoying, but enjoying the quality of the modes of material nature."

Just like a tiger. He is also enjoying. He is thinking, "I am very strong. I have got so power, so much jaws and nails. I can jump over any animal and immediately kill him." He is pleased in that position, but, you know, the tiger or the lion, they are so unfortunate that they do not get daily food, in spite of becoming so strong. Because prakrti-jan gunan, he is under the influence of the material nature. He... The tiger may be very powerful, but he remains always hungry. Very powerful. Because the other animals, they know that in that corner of the forest there is tiger, nobody goes there. Where he can get food? Hardly chance, by chance he gets one animal and jumps over it. This is called prakrti-jan gunan. He thought, "By becoming tiger I shall be very much proud of enjoying," but prakrti says, "No, sir, you cannot get even daily food. That is not possible." Therefore prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarva... [Bg. 3.27].

Here the so-called tiger, so-called big men... Just like in America the president is a big man. But now he is put into such a condition that he is full of anxiety. At any moment he may be kicked out. This is the position. You cannot be happy either as President Nixon or tiger or cats and dogs or human being or Lord Brahma. That is not possible. That is not possible. You must be full of anxieties because this is unnatural life.

To understand that "I am this body," this is foolishness. I am not this body. I am the soul within this body. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita in the second chapter: dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehi, the proprietor of the body. Just like you are the proprietor of your shirt and coat. You are not shirt and coat. You are the proprietor of the shirt and coat. You are dressed with shirt and coat in different colors and different shape.

Similarly, the living entity -- it does not matter whether he is a man or animal -- he is part and parcel of God, but he desired certain dress or certain body, so prakrti, nature, has given him. So this is going on. Purusah prakrti-stho hi [Bg. 13.22]. Purusa means... He is not enjoyer, but he is thinking enjoyer. He is not enjoyer. At any moment his so-called enjoyment will be finished.

Just like in the Western world they are thinking that "We are enjoying life." Of course, enjoying life in his consideration. But how long, sir, you will enjoy this life? You have got very nice car or very nice building and you are enjoying as Australian, as American. That's all right. But how long you shall remain American and Australian? That question does not come to the dull brain because he does not know that he is eternal. And this is temporary dress. I... Somehow or other, I wanted this, and prakrti, nature, has given me. But nature has not given me the right to remain as American, Australian, Indian, no. That is not possible. You wanted; you enjoyed this life for a certain time, and then again you create your desire." Now I am very powerful, very happy. Let me love dog instead of God" -- that means you are preparing your next life as dog because it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that at the time of death the mentality which you have created throughout the whole life, that will carry you to other body process. It is very scientific. Anta-kale tu mam smaran.

So if you train up... You have got this facility of life, comfortable life. Do not misuse it for becoming next life a dog. Utilize it to become next life God. That is success. You have got advanced intelligence, but this intelligence is given to you for understanding God and your position that by forgetting God you are in this material world, and in this material world you are changing one body to another. Sometimes American body, sometimes demigod's body, sometimes celestial body, sometimes dog's body, cat's body, tiger's body. This science is unknown. But this is the science. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah ahankara [Bg. 3.27]. We have got this body, that body, this body, under the direction of the prakrti, material nature. So therefore intelligence is that "If I am eternal..." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. You are not dying. Hanyamane sarire.

That you can experience practically, daily. How is that? When you sleep at night, then you dream, means subtle body. So these activities of this gross body stop. You again work in the subtle body. You dream that you have gone to somewhere or in the forest or somewhere, somewhere, somewhere. But you forget that "My real body is lying in this bed." You do not remember. This is practical. So I change this, myself. I am soul. I change from this gross body lying on bed in a very nice apartment, skyscraper building, but I have gone to the forest, and I am affronting a big tiger and I'm crying. In this bed I am crying. The friends say, "Why you are crying?" "Tiger, tiger, tiger." Where is tiger? This is called subtle body. So you are changing daily at night from this gross body to the subtle body. And again the dream is over, from the subtle body, again to the gross body. Every one of us has got this experience.

Therefore I am the enjoyer, purusa. I am changing simply body, this way or that way. This is my position. So one who is intelligent, that "I change body and different bodies. I am eternal, so what is my eternal business?" This is athato brahma jijnasa. This is called inquiry of the spiritual life. This is very simple thing, that "I am simply changing body. Then what is my real position?" This is intelligent. When a man comes to this position or this platform, to inquire, "Actually what I am?" that is beginning of human life. Otherwise, it is animal life. The animal also thinks, "I am dog," "I am tiger," "I am that." You are none of these, sir. These are all designations, for the temporary, for a certain period, ten years, five years, fifty years, utmost hundred years, then finished. But you are eternal.

So here it is said, purusa. "I am purusa. I am enjoying." So purusa prakrti-sthah. So long he is in this material body, he bhunkte. Bhunkte means enjoys. Not enjoyment. We think we are enjoying, but we are suffering actually. And because we cannot understand what is suffering... Suffering there is. Sometimes we come to understand. But we are accepting this suffering as enjoying. A man is working very hard, very hard, whole day. He is... This is not enjoyment. You have got a car, but you are running at 70 miles speed, going to your business, and there you are earning hundred and thousands of dollars. So you are thinking that you are enjoying. But this labor is suffering -- you forget. And in order to forget this suffering, then I take to wine, take to this, take to that, to forget the suffering.

So actually we are suffering, but we are accepting it as enjoying. This is called illusion. So whatever we are doing in certain type of body in this material world, that is suffering. That is not enjoying. Because why you are placed? Because I wanted to enjoy life like that. So purusa prakrti-stho hi bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan [Bg. 13.22]. And this profit is nothing but acceptance of the quality of material nature. And that is very practical. We can understand. Just like we are getting... I get, say, fifty-thousand dollars in a check. So I think that "I have got fifty thousand dollars." But what is this fifty thousand dollars? It is a piece of paper. You see? This is called illusion. In this way you study your life, you will see. If you are sober, if you are actually thoughtful, you will find that "This is not my life. This is not my life. But I am falsely thinking that I am enjoying life." Therefore frustration. Next stage is frustration. Everyone, we are frustrated because we are in this material world.

That, Prahlada Maharaja said, a great devotee, that... His father asked him, "My dear boy, what best thing you have learned?" He said, "My dear father..." He did not say, "father." His father was first-class materialist. So he addressed him, "the best of the demons," because anyone who is very much sensuous, very much attached to sense gratification, they are called demon. And those persons who do not indulge in sense gratification but utilize this body or this life for God realization, Krsna realization, they are called gods.

There are two classes of men, demon and god. Those who are engaged in God consciousness they are not God but godly. And those who are not... Because this human life is meant for this purpose. Forgetting our father, forgetting our God, we are criminal within this material world. Therefore our only business is how to get out of this prison house and go back to home, back to Godhead.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to liberate these foolish persons who are entangled in this material world and changing one body after another, sometimes very happy and sometimes very distressed. This is going on.

Therefore Prahlada Maharaja said, tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam: "My dear father, or the best of the demons, you are asking me, so I say, I have learned this. What is that? That these people who are always full of anxiety," asad-grahat, "because they have accepted this material world," tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat [SB 7.5.5], "these persons, either in human being or animal or bird and beasts -- full of anxieties."

If you bring one bird... He is free. You give some grains, he will come to eat, but he will look like this: "Nobody is coming to kill me. Nobody comes to kill me." Similarly, our position is... Even President Nixon, he is also full of anxieties: "When I shall be dethroned? When I shall be dethroned? Let me take protection. Let me take..." Anyone, beginning from Lord Brahma down to the small ant... You... There is ant is going. You stop it by your finger. He will struggle: "Why you are stopping? Why you are stopping, stopping?" This is the way. You will see the ants. When there is water, they carry their eggs on the head and they go on the wall, up. They have also got the same feeling, affection, and anxiety, everything. And the human being or the best human being is Lord Brahma in the topmost planet, whose life is millions and millions of years, he is also full of anxiety.

So Prahlada Maharaja said rightly that "My dear best of the demons, so far I have learned that these living entities in different grades of life," sada samudvigna-dhiyam, "always full of anxiety." Why? Asad-grahat: "Because he has accepted this material body, therefore he must be full of anxiety." Then what is the remedy? Now, hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta: [SB 7.5.5] "He should give up this material encagement, material home and material thing. He should approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead in Vrndavana or forest and surrender unto Him." That is the only way.

So if you want to be free of anxieties... Nobody can say that "I am already free of anxiety" unless he is a madman. A madman will say, "I have no anxiety." But no sane man will say that "I am free of anxiety." This is material life. So if you want to become free of anxieties, then you come to the spiritual life. That is the only remedy. Harim asrayeta. Accept the lotus feet of God. That is the mission of God. God comes Himself. God sends His son or devotee or servant. The same thing. That religion may be different. That is not very important.

Anyone who has preached... The religious leaders all over the world... Take Lord Jesus Christ or Krsna or Mohammed or Lord Buddha. Nobody has said that "You will be happy in this material world." Nobody has said. "You continue this manufacturing of factories, and you will be happy." Has anybody said? No. "Back to home, back to Godhead. Then you will be happy." This is Krsna consciousness movement, back to home, back to Godhead.

We have go speak many things. We have got books. So try to understand and prepare yourself next life to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the business of human life. All other business are simply useless waste of time. Thank you very much. [break]

Madhudvisa: When you become Krsna conscious, can you remember your past or see into the future?

Prabhupada: No, we understand past, future, everything present. That is spiritual consciousness. Yes. Just like Krsna says, "I know past, present and future," similarly, when you also become pure, purified in Krsna consciousness, you'll also know past, present and future.

Guest (1): [inaudible]

Madhudvisa: The gentleman is asking about the authenticity of Moses.

Prabhupada: Moses. They are representative of God. That's nice.

Guest (2): How strong is the power of Krsna?

Madhudvisa: How strong is the power of Krsna?

Prabhupada: (laughter) No, that can be explained. Just like there is Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Ocean and you are a drop of it, that's all. The quality is the same, a drop of Atlantic or Pacific Ocean and the ocean. If you taste the drop, a small drop it is salty -- you can understand that the ocean is also salty. But the containing, the contents of salt, that is very small, and the contents of salt in the ocean, that is very big. That you cannot imagine. It is like that. God is like you and me, a person. But He is Pacific Ocean; we are drop. That's all.

Yes? What is your question? This gentleman, here.

Guest (3): [inaudible]

Madhudvisa: He wants to know what the doctrine of Krsna consciousness is.

Prabhupada: Krsna consciousness means that you are part and parcel of Krsna, or God, you being separated, I have already explained, you are suffering in this material world. So you back to your father, go back to your father and be happy. That's all.

Guest (4): [inaudible] [break]

Prabhupada: ...if you love God. And because we are missing God, we are loving this thing, that thing, that thing, that thing, that thing, and frustration. That very love which is reserved for God, we are applying it in this material world: "I love my country. I love my society. I love my family. I love my dog. I love my... I love." But I am missing whom to love. That is the point. I am placing my love in so many things, and I am becoming frustrated. So when we understand the love is meant for God, that is our perfection of life. And if you love God, then you love everyone. That is perfect love. Without loving God...

Just like you are the son of your father. So when you love your father, naturally you love your brothers also because you know, "My father will be pleased." So this is love. That universal love can be possible when you actually love God. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. In material platform that is not possible. But a devotee, a pure lover of God, he loves everyone. Just like we are. Because we have tried to love God, therefore we are wandering, touring all over the world, and the same message, "Please try to love God." We have no other message because we have understood to some extent that without love of God, they are suffering. So they will be happy when they begin to love God. This is our mission.

Devotee (1): In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?

Prabhupada: Yes. You forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk. That's all. And you suffer. What can be done?" Because you are son of God -- God has got independence, full independence, almighty -- therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy. Beginning from Lord Brahma down to the worms in the stool, gradually, according to your work, according to your desire, you manufacture your different types of body and enjoy and suffer. That's all. That is explained. Prakrti-stho hi bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan. And as soon as you, entangled in different types of punishment, not enjoyment but punishment.

So in this way, being punished in different types of life, when we come to the sense... That sense can come in human form of life. When we understand that "I have traveled through, in, transmigrated from many species of life, but every life I can see, not that I have forgotten. Even if I have forgotten, I can see the suffering of the cats, dogs, tiger, man, bulldog and everyone. So I had all these lives in the past. Evolutionary process, I have come to this human. So I suffered all these things. So when the question comes, "Why shall I suffer?" then the inquiry -- this is called, Vedanta-sutra, athato brahma jijnasa -- the inquiry of God begins. That is human life. Yes.

Guest (5): Prabhupada, Lord Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita that when there is decline of true religion...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (5): ...and when evil increases in the world, that He manifests Himself in a body, a human body, and comes to earth to rescue the human beings from their illusion.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (5): Now these conditions exist today. Is He here in the human form or is He still to come?

Prabhupada: Yes, God has already come.

Guest (5): In what form?

Prabhupada: In the form of name, Hare Krsna.

Guest (5): No, He said He manifests in a human form.

Prabhupada: God has human form, and God is everything. So if He comes in the form of sound, where is your objection? But God is everything. He can come as a human being, or He can come in the form of sound also. Because what is this human being? You are seeing a human being, this flesh. That is combination of matter, combination of matter, earth, water, fire, air, ether. This is combination. What you are seeing? Your eyes are also the combination. But the sound is ether. So if you accept earth as the form, where is your objection to accept ether? Because they are all material.

Guest (5): There are two objections. One is that He said, "I manifest in a human body," in a human body such as we have here, and also...

Prabhupada: So that requires little intelligence, that anyone who is preaching the holy name of God, he is also God. Anyone who preaches the glories of God, he is also God.

Guest (5): Are you God?

Prabhupada: I am servant of God.

Guest (5): But you're preaching the holy name of God?

Prabhupada: Yes, that is my business.

Guest (5): But then, by your own words, you are God.

Prabhupada: But that does not mean I am God, but I am equal to God. Or at least you should see like that. That is explained. A guru... That is explained.

saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair
uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih
kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya
vande guroh sri-caranaravindam **

Guru's position is like this. What is that? Saksad-dhari. He is God. Saksad-dhari. How he is Hari, God? No, samasta-sastraih: "In all revealed scriptures it is explained that 'Guru, the servant of God, the son of God, the preacher, he is God.' " Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktah: ** "It is said." Tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih: "Those who are intelligent, they accept like that." Then next line says, kintu. Why he is God? Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya: "He is God because He is very, very dear to God." So as I said, in the absolute word, God and a person very dear to God, he is also God. But he does not think that he is God. He knows that he is servant of God. It requires little intelligence, spiritual intelligence, the Absolute, how the servant of God and God is the same. [break] Yes.

Guest (6): Do you believe in the Holy Bible?

Prabhupada: Why not? (laughter) It is holy, God's message. Why shall I not believe?

Devotee: (inaudible)

Madhudvisa: He wants to know how in the beginning, when we are starting to engage in Krsna consciousness, devotional service to God, can you develop enthusiasm and sincerity.

Prabhupada: Yes. The thing is if you want to become a drunkard, you mix with the people who drinks. Then you drink little, little, little. Then you become a big drunkard. Similarly, if you have got little sense that "I shall understand what is God," this very much qualification, if anyone only wants sincerely that "I will understand what is God," then your drinking business begins immediately. [break]

Then if you continue, then as the drunkard becomes big drunkard, you become a big devotee. The beginning is that you must be little anxious that how I can understand God. This is the qualification, that's all. And if you are serious, then God is within you, He will give you intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Tesam nityabhiyuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam buddhi-yogam dadami tam. When God sees that you are sincere, He is within you, He will dictate you do like this, you do like this, and you will make advance.

Devotee: He is commenting about the (indistinct) (laughter)

Prabhupada: The animal did not understand anything. (laughter and applause) Because he is animal he is thinking like that. Everyone thinks others like him. That is the nature. Atmavat manyate jagat.

There is a story. You will hear it. That one gentleman, he was hard of hearing, hard of hearing. So he is calling his wife Mrs. Such-and-such, Mrs. Such. She is replying, "Yes, I am coming." But he is hard of hearing. He is thinking that my wife is hard of hearing. She is replying, "Yes, I am coming." But this rascal is hard of hearing, so he is thinking my wife, that is my wife's fault, she is hard of hearing. He cannot hear and he is thinking that my wife is hard of hearing. This is the example. A man thinks others like himself.

Guest (7): Is Krsna a person God?

Prabhupada: Yes, God is person, like you and me. You can go and talk with Him, he qualified for that pur... Nitya nitya... This is Vedic injunction. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). God is eternal among all other eternals. We are all eternal, and God is the chief eternal. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. We are also cognizant and God is also cognizant. The difference is that I am cognizant with a limited space and God is cognizant throughout the whole universe. But He is also cognizant. He is also person. I am also person. What is the difference? Eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. That one maintains all these innumerable living entities. Therefore in the Bible you go and ask God give us our daily bread, He is maintaining. That is the difference between God and ourself. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated and God is the predominator. That is the difference. Otherwise He is a person, we are also persons. He is eternal, we are eternal. He is cognizant, we are cognizant.

And all the desires and propensities what God has got, we have also got. God has got this propensity to love Radharani. We have got also the same propensity to love another young girl or young boy. So originally it is there. Therefore in the Vedanta-sutra it is said janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. God means from whom everything has come. So if there is a question of love, the (indistinct) a man loving a woman and woman loving a man, that is in God. It must be there. Otherwise wherefrom it has come?

But that is pure and here it is impure on account of this material contamination. The thing is there but it is contaminated. Therefore you feel frustration. So intelligence is the why shall I remain in this contaminated position? I shall go to the pure platform. That is Krsna consciousness.

Guest (8): Why didn't anyone see Krsna's universal form before Arjuna? Krsna said no one has seen before Arjuna. Why is that?

Prabhupada: You become like Arjuna, you will see. First of all you become like Arjuna, friend of Krsna. Then you will see. Do you think you are as good as Arjuna? Krsna says, Arjuna addressing, that I am instructing to you my dear Arjuna, because you are my dear friend. And you are very great devotee. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam etad uttamam [Bg. 4.3]. I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gita because you are qualified. What is that qualification? Because you are My devotee and very intimate friend. So you become also intimate friend and devotee, you will understand everything. That is our request. If Arjuna becomes a friend and devotee you can also become. Why you are losing this opportunity? That is our propaganda. You also become a friend, a devotee, and be happy and see Krsna as He is simply symbolic representation. He says everyone. Let us take this opportunity and become like Arjuna. That is perfection of life.

I think now we should chant Hare Krsna. Please join us. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 3.27 -- Melbourne, June 27, 1974