Business and Brahminical culture

30 Jan 73 , Calcutta

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Prabhupada:Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for kindly inviting me. I'll serve you to my capacity. Today's subject matter is "Culture and Business. So business, we mean business means the occupational duty. According to our Vedic culture, there are different types of businesses. As it is described in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13] -- the four divisions of social system, namely the brahmana, the ksatriya, the vaisya and the sudra. Before doing business, there must be a division who can do what kind of business. There are different businesses. Now we have taken that everyone should take everyone's business. That is not very scientifical division. Therefore there is cultural division. Just like the whole body. The whole body's one unit, but there are different departments also -- just like the head department, the arms department, the belly department and the leg department. This is scientific. The head department is called the brahmana. In the society... And the arms department is called the ksatriyas, and the belly department is called the vaisyas, and the leg department is called the sudras. This is scientific division of business. Although the head department is most important department, because without head, other departments, the arms departments, the belly department and the leg department will be finished. If the arms department is lacking, still business can go on. If the leg department is lacking, the business may go on. But if the head department is not there, if the, your head is cut off from the body, then in spite of having all these arms, legs and bellies, they all become useless. So the head department is meant for culture. Without culture... Just like without head, the arms department, the belly department, the leg department are all useless. Similarly without culture, all these businesses, they creates confusion and chaos. That is the position at the present moment, because there is intermingling of different businesses. There must be one section of people, head department, who should give advice to the other departments. The brahmanas, they're intelligent. They are qualified. Satya sama dama titiksa arjava jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42].

So culture means that one should know what is the aim of life. Without understanding the aim of life, a man without aim is ship without, a ship without rudder. That is an English proverb. So at the present moment, we are missing the goal of life because there is no head department. The whole human society is lacking now real brahmanas who can give advice to the other departments. Just like Arjuna was fighting. He was a military man. His business was to fight. He was engaged in his business, but he was taking at the same time advice of, the advice of the Brahmana deva, Krsna.

namo brahmanya-devaya
go-brahmana-hitaya ca
jagad-dhitaya krsnaya
govindaya namo namah

So the brahmana department, or the adviser department, is described in this verse: namo brahmanya-devaya go-brahmana-hitaya ca. The first thing is taken into consideration, go-brahmana. Why these two things are stressed upon? Because in a society where there is no brahminical culture and where there is no cow protection, it is not human society. So in a chaotic condition, any business you do, it will never be perfect. But in a systematized, systematic, cultural society, you do business. That is perfect. That is the instruction of Srimad-Bhagavata, Bhagavatam. In a meeting in Naimisaranya, where many learned scholars and brahmanas assembled, and Srila Suta Gosvami was giving instruction, he said: atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. The varnasrama is stressed. The Vedic culture means four varnas and four asramas: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra; brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Unless we take to this institution of varnasrama dharma, the whole society will be in chaotic condition.

And the purpose of varnasrama dharma is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. As it is stated in the Visnu Purana:

varnasramacaravata
purusena parah puman
visnur aradhyate pumsam
nanyat tat-tosa-karanam
 [Cc. Madhya 8.58]

Just like in a state, you have to satisfy your government; then you are good citizen. Similarly in the cosmic state, taking altogether this whole material creation, if you do not satisfy the Supreme Lord, the proprietor of everything, then it will be chaotic condition. Our Vedic culture means whatever you do, it doesn't matter. You must satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is culture. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya samsiddhim labhate narah [Bg. 18.46]. You can do any business. Any business means the brahmana's business, the ksatriya's business, the vaisya's business and the sudra's business. That is business. Otherwise you can do any business. But business means there are different classes of business. So Bhagavad-gita it is said that one should satisfy by his own business the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yena sarvam idam tatam. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam also it is said: culture means... Atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. The, there are different businesses according to different divisions of human society. But their aim should be svanusthitasya dharmasya. Business means dharma. Another... Dharma means occupational duty. So svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir. One must find out the perfection of his business. That is culture. Culture and business means you may do whatever business you are doing, according to your division, or according to your capacity or according to your qualification. You may be a, a merchant, you may be a professional man, you may be legal adviser, medical man. Whatever you may, it doesn't matter. But if you want perfection in your business, then you must try to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is culture. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, yajnarthe karma. Yajna. Yajna means Visnu, the Supreme Lord. For Him you have to work. Yajnarthe karma. Anyatra karma-bandhana. Otherwise you become bound up by the acts, by the reaction of your activities. Karma-bandhana. And so long you are in the bondage of karma, you have to transmigrate from one body to another.

Unfortunately at the present moment, people do not know that there is soul and the soul transmigrates from one body to another. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantaram praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Big, big professors... I've talked with big, big scientists, professors, but they do not know that there is life after death. They do not know. But according to our Vedic information, we know. And we can ex..., experience in this present life. It is very common thing. Just like a baby has got a body of a boy. The boy has got a body again of a youth, young man. The young man has got a body again of a old man. So similarly, old man, after annihilation of this body, he'll get another body. It is very, quite natural, logical. And we change our body. Although this gross body's destroyed, we change our body by the subtle body. The subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. Just like we forget about this body at night, and the subtle body works. We dream. We are taken away from our home, from our bed, to some other place, and completely forget this body. And when the sleep is over, we forget about the dream and we become attached to this gross body. This is going on -- in our daily experience. So I am the observer. I am sometimes in this gross body and sometimes in the subtle body. But it is changing. But I am the observer. Therefore the inquiry should be that "What is my position? At night I forget my gross body, and during daytime I forget my subtle body. Then what is my real body?" These are the questions.

So this is culture. You may do your business. Just like Arjuna: Arjuna was doing his business. He was a fighter, ksatriya, but he did not forget his culture, hearing Gita from the master. That is culture. If you simply do business and do not cultivate your spiritual life, then it is useless waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8], the sastra says. Svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. So our Krsna consciousness movement is being spread up that "Do not forget your cultural life." We do not say that you stop your business and become a sannyasi like me and give up everything. We do not say. Neither Krsna said that. Krsna never said Arjuna that "You give up your business." "You are ksatriya. You are declining fighting. Oh, it is very abominable. You should not say like that. You must fight." That was Krsna's instruction. So similarly, we Krsna conscious people, we are also advising everyone that "You do not give up your business." Caitanya Mahaprabhu said also: sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. Caitanya Mahaprabhu never said that "You give up your position." Position, giving up is not very difficult. But to cultivate spiritual knowledge, that is required. Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovidah na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah [1.5.18]. Now the animal life, there is no cultivation of spiritual life. That is not possible. The animal cannot cultivate this knowledge. The human beings, if they do not cultivate spiritual knowledge, they're exactly like animals. Dharmena hina pasubhih samanah. So we should be very conscious about our eternal existence. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Nityah sasvato 'yam. We, spirit soul, we are eternal. We are not going to die after the annihilation of this body. This is the cultivation of knowledge. This is called brahma-jijnasa, to know about one's self. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's first disciple, Sanatana Gosvami, he was minister, finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussein Shah, and he retired and approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And he humbly inquired that "These people call me pandita." Because he was brahmana by caste. Naturally we call a brahmana "pandita." So Sanatana Gosvami placed this: "My dear Lord, these people call me pandita, but I am such a pandita that I do not know who I..., what I am." So that is the position of everyone. We may be businessman. We may be in other profession. But if we do not know what I am, wherefrom I have come, why I am under the tribulation of these material laws of nature and where I am going, what is my next life -- if we do not know this, then whatever we are doing, srama eva hi kevalam. Visvaksena-kathasu notpadayed ratim yadi, visvaksena-kathasu yah srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8].

So our request to everyone that you can be engaged in whatever business, in whatever position Krsna has posted you. Do your duty nicely. But do not forget to cultivate Krsna knowledge. Krsna knowledge means God consciousness. God consciousness means we must know that we are part and parcel. Mamaivamso jiva-loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah [Bg. 15.7]. We are eternal part and parcel of Krsna, or God, but we are struggling here, manah-sasthani indriyani prakrti-sthani karsati. Why this struggle for existence? We must know... We have got eternal life. This temporary... Suppose in this temporary life I become Birla or some big businessman for, say, twenty years or fifty years, utmost, hundred years. Next life there is no guarantee that I'm going to be Birla or this man, Tata. No. There is no such guarantee. That we do not take care. We are taking care of the small span of life, but we are not taking care of our life eternal. That is mistake. Suppose in this life I am a very great businessman. Next life, by my karma, if I become something else... There are 8,400,000 species of life, forms of life. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. Nine lakhs of forms of life in the water. Then there are insects. Sthavara laksa... There are trees, plants, two million forms of trees and plants. Krmayo rudra-sankhyakah. Eleven lakhs' species of insects, reptiles. Then birds. Paksinam dasa-laksanam. In this way, we fulfill eight millions of different forms of life. Then we come to the form of human life. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja said that kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha, durlabham manusam janma [SB 7.6.1]. This manusam janma is very, very rare. We should not be satisfied only becoming a very big businessman. We must know what is next life, what I am going to be.

So there are different kinds of men. Some of them are called the karmis, and some of them are called the jnanis, and some of them are called the yogis, and some of them are called the bhaktas. The karmis, they are after material happiness. In this life, also, they want the highest, the best comfort of material life, and after death also they want to be elevated to the heavenly planets. Similarly jnanis, they also want, they being fed up of this material way of life, they want to, they want to merge into the existence of Brahman. That is jnani. The yogis, they also want mystic power. And the bhaktas, they want simply service of the Lord. So unless one understands what is Lord, how he can render service to the Lord? This culture is the highest culture. The karmis' culture, the jnanis' culture, the yogis' culture and the bhaktas' culture -- there are different cultures. So all of them are called yogis if they are doing sincerely their duty. Karma-yogi, jnana-yogi, dhyana-yogi, bhakta-yogi. But Krsna says,

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gata antaratmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah
 [Bg. 6.47]

He's first-class yogi. Who is that man? Now, yoginam api sarvesam mad-gata antaratmana: "Who is always thinking of Me." That means Krsna conscious. Krsna says, "Who is always thinking of Me." Yoginam api sarvesam. There are different yogis -- karma-yogi, jnana-yogi, dhyana-yogi. But the best yogi is he who's always thinking of Krsna within himself. Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatena-antaratmana sraddhavan bhajate yo mam. Sraddhavan. With faith and love, one who is giving rendering service to the Lord, he's first-class yogi.

There are other verses in the Bhagavad-gita. [break] ...of cousin-brothers, the Pandavas and the Kauravas. They met there for fighting. That's a historical fact, Mahabharata, Greater India. Mahabharata means Greater, History of Greater India. So everything is there. But we do not take advantage of this great book of knowledge. So we request that everyone should cultivate... Should try to know what he is, what is Krsna, what is their relationship with Krsna, and what is their real life, what is the goal of life. Unless we do cultivate all this knowledge, then it is simply we are wasting our time, this valuable life of human form of life. It is very, very valuable. Durlabham manusam janma tad api adhruvam arthadam. Although everybody will die, that's a fact, but one who dies after knowing all these things, he is benefited. His life is successful. Just like Krsna says, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is wanted. Everyone... The cat will die, dogs will die, everyone will die. That's a fact. But one who dies knowing Krsna, oh, that is successful death. Because Krsna says,

janma karma me divyam
yo janati tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti kaunteya
 [Bg. 4.9]

This is success.

So our only request is, wherever we go all over the world, we request only that "You try to understand Krsna. Then your life is successful." It doesn't matter what you do. We have to do something. Krsna says, sarira-yatrapi te prasiddhyet akarmanah. If you stop working, your living condition will be hampered. That is not the question. Everyone has to do his duty. Arjuna also did his duty. He was ksatriya. His business was to acquire kingdom. Because the ksatriyas, they cannot beg. They must have some land. Their business is to levy tax. That is enjoined in the sastras. Brahmanas, they should live by pathana pathana yajana yajana. Ksatriyas should live by giving protection to the people. Vaisyas should live by trade, agriculture, protection of cows. And the sudras should live under the protection of brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sud..., three higher castes. This is the injunction. So one has to do something for his livelihood, but, at the same time, he has to cultivate knowledge for his perfection of life. So this is perfection of life, simple thing. Simple thing we are prescribing all over the world. You try to understand Krsna. Simple. And it is not very difficult. You read Bhagavad-gita as it is. You understand Krsna. Krsna is explaining everything. If the neophytes, one who cannot, cannot understand Krsna, Krsna is prescribing like this: raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh: [Bg. 7.8] "My dear Kaunteya, I am the taste of the water." So there is no need of saying that "I cannot see God. I have not seen God." Here is God. The taste of water is God. Everyone is drinking water. And who is not tasting it? He's seeing God. Why do you say that "I do not see God"? You see, as it is directed by God. Then gradually you'll see Him. If you simply remember this instruction, this one instruction of Bhagavad-gita, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh, "I am the taste of water. I am the shining illumination of sun and moon..." Who has not seen the sunlight? Who has not seen the moonlight? Who has not tasted water? Then why do you say, "I have not seen God"? If you simply practice this bhakti-yoga, as soon as you drink water and taste and be satisfied, "Oh, here is Krsna." So immediately you remember Krsna. As soon as you see sunshine, you remember, "Oh, here is Krsna." As soon as you see moonshine, you remember, "Eh, here is..." As soon as you see something wonderful, paurusam nrsu sabdah khe, as soon as you hear in the sky some sound, so if you remember, "Here is Krsna," that means you are remembering Krsna in every step of your life. And if you're remembering Krsna in every step of life, then you become the topmost yogi. Because Krsna says,

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gata antaratmana
sraddhavan bhajate...
 [Bg. 6.47]

Mad-gata antaratmana. If you feel Krsna in every step of life... It is not very difficult. And, above that, if you practice the chanting -- Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare... There is no tax. Your..., there is no loss of your business. You are all businessmen. But if you chant Hare Krsna mantra, if you remember Krsna while drinking water, what is your loss? Why don't you try it? This is cultivation of knowledge, if you cultivate this knowledge, at the same time go on doing your business, your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (applause) [break]

 

Guest (1): How we can come over the ego?

Prabhupada: You cannot come over. Now you are in false ego. You have to come to the real ego. Now you are thinking, "I am Indian. I am Hindu. I am businessman." These are all false ego. When you come to your real ego, that "I am part and parcel of Krsna, eternal servant of Krsna," that is your real... Ego, you cannot give up. But this is your false ego. You have to give up your false ego, come to the real ego. That's... Purify your ego. That is required. [break] ...dhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Upadhi. At the present moment, I am thinking like that. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brahmana," "I am sudra," "I am black," "I am white" -- these are the egoism of this body. But I'm not this body. Aham brahmasmi. So when you come to that stage... Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. When you come to your real ego, then you become happy. And because you are in false ego, you are unhappy. So ego cannot be changed. Because you are eternal, how you can be, ego can be changed? Just like people say, "Give up desires." How can you desire..., give up desires of a living entity? That is not possible. But I have to purify my desires. That is wanted. Just like if you have got some disease. So if you, some, the physician, they say "Pluck out your eyes," that is not good treatment. But you treat the eyes nicely and the sight may be good. That is wanted. So this bhakti-marga means sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam. That is bhakti-marga. You have to give up your false ego. Sarva upadhi. This is upadhi: "I am this, I am that, and..." This upadhi has created trouble in the world. So we have to come to the real ego. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is mukti. Mukti hitva anyatha rupam svarupena vyavasthitih. Now hitva anyatha rupam. My ego is going on in a different way. Unnecessarily I am spoiling my life with these designations. But we have to come to the point of our real identity. So nothing can be given up. As living entity, I must be egoistic. Law of identity. How can I say that "I am not"? I am. I am existing. But now I am existing with designations. If I give up my designations, if I become purified, that is my real ego. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become nirmala. And when you become nirmala... Hrsikena hrsikesa sevanam bhaktir ucyate. That is bhakti. So your senses are there. Now with my senses I am thinking that "I am the head of this familyman," "I am head of this community," or "I am..., I have to serve. I have to engage my hand in this way, my eyes in this way, my nose in this way." Senses are engaged in a upadhi, designated. But when this is, designation is taken away, when you become nirmala, the senses remain, the dress of the senses taken away, at that time, your senses are engaged in the service of the Lord, and that is called bhakti.

Bhavananda: Are there are any other questions? [break]

Prabhupada: ...service to the humanity. Now you are thinking service to the humanity means a section of humanity. And why should you stick your service to the humanity? When one is serving his own countrymen, Indian, he does not care for the Englishman. So don't speak of humanity. Nobody can serve the whole humanity in the present way. But if you spread Krsna consciousness, that is the best service to the humanity. Just like we are doing. We have no discrimination, that "These are Indians. These are Americans. They are Hindus. They are Muslims. They are Christians." No. Or "They're cats or dogs." That oneness you can see only when you are Brahman-realized. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. Why humanity? Why not the cats and dogs and cows? You are very much anxious to give service to the humanity, but you are sending animals to the slaughterhouse. Why? (indistinct) the lack of knowledge. You do not (indistinct) is part and parcel of God. You cannot select this part and... Therefore the sastra says, yatha taror mula-nisecanena trpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhah [SB 4.31.14]. Just like by watering the root, you can water automatically the branches, the trunks, the twigs, the flowers, the fruits, the leaves -- everything is watered. Sarvarhanam acyutejya. Or by supplying foodstuff to the stomach, you serve all the senses of the body perfectly. Similarly, when you begin to serve Krsna, then not only to the human society, to the animal society, to the tree society. Every society will be served. That is perfect service. And if you simply limit your service, that is, may be good, but that is not good. According to sastra... Just like you simply water the leaves, the leaves will not live. They'll dry. But if you supply water to the root, everything will be protected. So actual service will begin when you are Krsna conscious. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54], samah sarve... That is samah sarvesu. And so long you limit, that is limited service. That is not perfect service.

Guest (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupada: [break] ...immoral(?) generation means godlessness. It is said in the sastra, yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvaih gunaih tatra samasate surah. If you have unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then all the good qualities of demigods will develop unto you. It is not story. It is fact. Just like these European and American students. They, in their previous life, before becoming Krsna consciousness, according to our standard, they were all immoral. Our, in India, illicit sex life still, it is admitted, if it is not followed, to have sex relation with other's wife or other woman except one's wife, that is called immoral or sinful. So in Western countries these things are not immoral or sinful. It is very daily affair. But now, because they have come to Krsna consciousness, they have given up all these things. No illicit sex life. Unless one is married, he must remain brahmacari or vanaprastha or sannyasi. Only grhastha, duly married wife, he can have sex. This is morality. And you should not kill the animals unnecessarily. That is immoral. You are already intoxicated by the influence of maya. You should not be more intoxicated. This is immoral. You should not indulge in gambling. These are immoral. So as soon as you become Krsna consciousness, then all these immoralities vanish immediately. That is the only. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana, sarvaih gunaih tatra samasate su..., harav abhaktsya kuto mahad-guna. One who is not Krsna..., he cannot have any good quality or any morality. That is the decision of the sastra. So if you want to revive the morality of the society, you must take up this Krsna consciousness. Then everything will come.

Guest (1): Sir, this..., why we did not have a world with universal brotherhood, universal love?

Prabhupada: Because you don't want it. Because you don't want it. You do not want. That, that, that is explained in the previous verse, that Krsna says,

sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami...
 [Bg. 18.66]

These miserable conditions are there because we are all sinful. So Krsna gives protection that "You surrender unto Me, and I give you protection from the reaction of all sinful life." So who wants Krsna? You do not want. Krsna says, canvassing, but who is accepting? Then how you can get, I mean to say, liberty or liberation from these sinful activities? Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo. People suffer on account of sinful activities. There are two things, papa and punya. So if you follow the path of papa, then you must suffer. Just like state laws. If you become criminal, you must suffer. You must go to the prison house. You, you cannot argue that "Why government has created the prison house? Why?" Can you argue like that? Yes, there is necessity. The government knows that there will be some rascals who will commit criminal activities; therefore there must be prison house. So this material world is prison house. Every one of us, we are member of the prison house-first class, second class, third class. Just like in the prison house there are different classes. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You cannot expect treatment in the prison house just like son-in-law. No. That is not possible. You must suffer. Otherwise, what is the meaning of prison house? Similarly, Krsna says, although Krsna has created this world, He says this is duhkhalayam asasvatam, this is the place of misery. And asasvatam. You cannot make any arrangement. "All right, Sir, let it be duhkhalayam. Let me remain here." No. That also you cannot remain. You'll be kicked out. This is the place like that. But Krsna gives you the idea how you can be happy, how you can get out of this. He says, mam upetya kaunteya duhkhalayam asasvatam napnuvanti [Bg. 8.15].

janma karma me divyam
yo janati tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti...
 [Bg. 4.9]

Krsna is canvassing you that "You try to understand Me. Come back." But you do not want it. So how Krsna can save you? You have got the independence. Krsna said to Arjuna, "Now I (have) explained to you everything. Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Now, whatever you like, you do." So we have got that little independence because we are part and parcel of God. God has got supreme independence and we, being part and parcel... Just like you are all big businessmen. You have got supreme independence in business. Similarly, your sons, they have got also some independence, although subjected. Similarly, we, being part and parcel of God, sons of God, we have got little independence. If we misuse that independence, then we become subjected to all these tribulations. But if we do not misuse... As Krsna says, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. So it is up to you. If you want to remain in this world of duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15], you can do so. But if you want to get out of it, you can do so. That is up to you. It is not Krsna's fault. Krsna has given you liberty, little independence, whatever. Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. He's given you chance. You want to do this -- "All right, do it." You want to do this? "Do this." He's giving you chance. There is a verse, sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. He's situated in everyone's heart. He's understanding what you want, and He's giving you all chance: "All right, have it. Enjoy it." But His instruction is that "This will not make you happy." Sarva-dharman parityaja mam ekam. You do not do it. You must suffer. That is not Krsna's fault. That is your fault.

Guest (1): A small thing. Will Your Reverence have... [break]

Prabhupada: So you have no right to do so.

Guest (1): Say instead of Hare Rama Hare Rama, we say Visva ramane rahim, or something like that, will you have no objection to that?

Prabhupada: No objection.

Guest (1): And will you say...

Prabhupada: But that is no objection.

Guest (1): ...that efficacy will be the same?

Prabhupada: Yes. If Bismillah means Hare Krsna... It is a question of language. So if meaning the same thing, Hare Krsna... Hare Krsna means we are addressing the Supreme Lord and His energy. Hara means the energy of the Supreme Lord, and Krsna means the Supreme Lord. So we are addressing, "My dear Lord, my dear the energy of Lord..." Because Lord and His energy, they are, they are always existing. Just like sun and the sunshine, they're always existing. Sunshine is the energy, but sun is the energetic. Similarly, the Lord is there and His energy's also there. So we are praying both to the energy and to the Lord: "Please engage me in Your service. I am serving maya. I am not happy. Therefore, please engage me in Your..." My, my constitutional position is to serve. Just like you're all sitting here. Every one of you are servant. If you consider that you are master, that is a mistake. That is maya. Every one of you are servant. So "I am serving, but now I am serving maya. I'm not happy. Let me serve You." This is the meaning of Hare Krsna. So if it means that, there is no objection. It is a question of language. It does mean (indistinct). Of course, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-saktis tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says the, the person whose name we chant, holy name, in each, in each holy Allah, or something like that, that is not objected if it is actually meaning the Supreme. If it is meaning something else, that is another thing. This question... Just like water or jala. It (is) the same thing. It is simply a different name. If I ask water, you'll give me the water actually, and if I say, jala, you'll give me the same. So if the meaning is all right, then there is no objection. If the meaning is different, then there is objection. We are not fighting with the language. We are not concerned with the language.

Guest (2): Why God created sinful activities?

Prabhupada: You have created. God has not created. You have created. Yes.

Guest (1): In what respect?

Prabhupada: You have created.

Guest (1): In what respect I have created?

Prabhupada: You want to kill animals. God does not say that "You kill animals." So you have created sinful activities.

Guest (1): I am a part and parcel of the almighty God.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): So when animals are butchered, why the butcher does not get pain?

Prabhupada: Butcher does not get pain? Do you know that? There is a Sanskrit verse that vyadha ma jiva, ma mara: "My dear butcher, you don't live, don't die." Do you think this butcher, that butchering work is very palatable work? Can you see it, before you, a man is killed, an animal is killed? So he has become accustomed. It pains him. But that work is so abominable that he should not live for executing that work. But what is the benefit of dying? Because after death, he will be butchered. Therefore the sastra says, ma jiva ma mara: "Don't live, don't die." Yes.

Indian man: There is some difference. When we do some good, we consider it as God-inspired, but when we do something bad, then we can't say that it is also God-inspired after we have done it?

Prabhupada: I do not follow what he says.

Guest (2): He says that the inspiration comes from the God for the all works.

Prabhupada: God inspiration comes for every work. That's a fact. But we deny... Just like... You take this simple exam, example. Just like a thief. From within, he's forbidden: "Don't commit theft." But he does it. He does it. You have got all experience about these things. God says from within, "Don't do it," but we do it. That is the defect of without being Krsna consciousness. Just like a thief. He knows that for his criminal activities he'll be punished. He has seen it, that a thief is arrested and he's taken to the prison house. And he has heard from the sastra and from lawbooks that committing theft is not good. Why does he commit it? He knows and he has seen it. Why does he do it? Can you answer? He knows that it is not good, and he has heard it from sastra and from learned lawyers. But why does he do it? This is the influence of nature. As he associated with the nature, ignorance, dark ignorance. He cannot check it. Therefore the best service to humanity is to give him knowledge. Because everyone is in ignorance. Parabhavas tavad abodha-jata yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam. Everyone is being defeated out of this ignorance. Therefore one should come to the platform of inquiring about the self. That is the best service, athato brahma jijnasa, To revive, invoke people to inquire about Brahman, and that will solve all the questions.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Lecture at Bharata Chamber of Commerce "Culture and Business" -- Calcutta, January 30, 1973

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A Devotee's Pleasure

"A Devotee's Pleasure"

73/01/30 Calcutta

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Bhavananda: (reading) "The attention of a pure devotee is so much attracted to glorification of the pastimes, name, qualities, forms, and so forth of the Lord that the devotee does not care for mukti. Sri Bilvamangala Thakura has said, 'If I am engaged in devotional service unto You, my dear Lord, then very easily can I perceive Your presence everywhere. And as far as liberation is concerned, I think liberation stands at my door with folded hands, waiting to serve me.' "

Prabhupada: Yes. By chanting the mantra, Hare Krsna mantra, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], gradually we become cleansed of all dirty things within our heart. Thus our mind becomes purified. And in the purified condition of the mind we can think of Krsna rightly. In this way, Krsna becomes practically dependent on the devotees. Krsna is the master, controller of everything, but to the pure devotee He becomes dependent. So why the pure devotee will ask for anything else? Adurlabham atma-bhaktau. For a devotee, Krsna is within the palms of a devotee. Ajita, jito 'py asau. Although Krsna is not conquerable, but He likes to be conquered by His devotee. That is the position. Just like He willingly placed Himself to be conquered by Mother Yasoda, to be conquered by Radharani, to be conquered by His friends. Krsna became defeated and He has to take His friend on the shoulder. Practically sometimes we see that a king keeps a joker amongst his associates, and sometimes the joker insults the king, and the king enjoys. The joker sometimes... Just like there is a famous joker, Gopala Bon, in Bengal. So one day the king asked him, "Gopala, what is the difference between you and an ass?" So he immediately measured the distance from the king. He said, "It is three feet only, sir. The difference is only three feet." So everyone began to laugh. And the king enjoyed that insult. Because sometimes it is required.

So Krsna also... Everyone praises Him in exalted position. Everyone. That is Krsna's position -- the Supreme Lord. In Vaikuntha, there is only praising. There is no such thing. But in Vrndavana Krsna is free to accept insult from His devotee. The people do not know that, what is Vrndavana life. So devotees are so exalted. Radharani orders, "Don't allow Krsna to come here." Krsna cannot come in. He flatters the other gopis: "Please allow Me to go there." "No, no. There is no order. You cannot go." So Krsna likes that. But the Mayavadis, they cannot understand that the Supreme Absolute Truth can be controlled by the devotee. They want to become one. But here the Vaisnava, pure Vaisnava, they become so exalted that there is no question of becoming one. Daivena phalati divya-kisora-murtih, bhaktis tvayi sthiratara yadi bhagavan syad, Bilvamangala Thakura says. Daivena phalati divya-kisora-murtih muktih mukulitanjali sevate asman. "Mukti, oh, she's standing with folded hands, 'What can I do for you, sir?' " Dharmartha-kama moksa samaya pratiksah. They're just like attendants, servants. Dharma-artha-kama-moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90]. So for a devotee, the position is so exalted. They don't care for all this dharma, artha, kama, moksa. They simply absorbed in thoughts of Krsna. Always thinking, satato, smartavyah satato visnu. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Always, twenty-four hours. Even in sleeping. That is perfection. Always thinking of Krsna. Go on.

Bhavananda: "To pure devotees, therefore, liberation and spiritual emancipation are not very important things."

Prabhupada: That's not very important. They are, they think that moksa is very exalted position. Therefore Sridhara Swami says moksa, moksa-vancha paryantam nirastam. Moksa-vancha paryantam nirastam. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsaranam satam vastava vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. So in Bhagavata says that "This Srimad-Bhagavatam is meant by the, meant for the paramahamsas, not for ordinary man." Ordinary man, they are after dharma, artha, kama, moksa. First of all, nowadays, even they do not care for dharma. They're animals. Really human life begins when they take to religious principles. Dharmena hina pasubhih samanah. So dharma-artha-kama-moksa, gradually improvement, and devotional service is above moksa. Therefore dharmah projjhita-kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2]. Kaitavo, cheating. As soon as there is some motive, that is cheating religion. But bhakti, there is no such thing, dharma, artha, kama, moksa. It is above, transcendental. Therefore it is meant for the paramo nirmatsaranam satam. Nirmatsara. Nirmatsara means envious..., not envious. Matsarata. Para utkarsanam asahanam (?), Sridhara Swami says. If in, if somebody is advancing, somebody is making improvement, his neighbors, his friends, even most intimate friends, they also become envious: "Oh, this man is advancing so much. This man is becoming so rich, so popular." Envious. So Vaisnava is not envious. If somebody advances more than him, he appreciates: "Oh, he's so nice that he has advanced more than me. I could not serve Krsna in such a nice way." That is Vaisnavism. And if one is envious -- "Oh, this man is going so fast. Let him, let us put some impediments on this path" -- he's not Vaisnava; he's hinasya jantuh. He's animal. Vaisnava cannot be envious. Therefore Vaisnava cult... This is paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. No matsarata, no enviousness. Satam, devotees. Devotees means he must be nirmatsara. Go on.

Bhavananda: "In this connection, in the Third Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Chapter Twenty-five, verse 23, Kapiladeva has advised His mother, Devahuti, as follows: 'My dear mother, My pure devotees are charmed by seeing My different forms, the beauty of My face, the structure of My body so enchanting. My laughing, My pastimes and My glance appear to them so beautiful that their minds are always absorbed in thoughts of Me, and their lives are dedicated fully unto Me. Although such people do not desire any kind of liberation or any kind of material happiness, still, I give them a place amongst My associates in the supreme abode.' "

Prabhupada: Therefore this arcana-marga, sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-marj anadau yuktasya bhaktams ca niyunjato 'pi **. This is the first duty of the spiritual master, to engage the devotees in arcana-marga. Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya. Cleansing the temple, dressing the Deity, decorating with flowers, ornaments and... So that devotees, as soon as (they) see smiling Krsna, pleasing Krsna, they become pleased. They become pleased by seeing Krsna pleased. They do not want to be pleased independently. That is not devotee. Devotee's pleasure is seeing Krsna is pleased. Krsna is also pleased when He sees the devotees are pleased. This is competition. This is competition. Krsna wants to see that His devotees are pleased, and the devotees want to see that Krsna is pleased. Dui lage hura huri (?). This is the competition going on between Krsna and Radharani. By Radharani, seeing the Radharani's beauty, Krsna becomes pleased, and Radharani, when She sees that Krsna is very pleased, She becomes pleased. She becomes more beautiful. And Krsna wants to see. In this way there is competition. This is radha krsna-pranaya vikrtir hladini saktir asmad ekatmanav api deha-bhedam gatau tau [Cc. Adi 1.5]. This is the exchange of Krsna's pleasure potency. Srimati Radharani is the manifestation of pleasure potency of Krsna.

So people who do not know that Radha-Krsna lila is not ordinary thing, just like human being or young girls or young boys... No. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis [Bs. 5.37]. They are display of ananda-cinmaya-rasa. Cinmaya-rasa. Not jara-rasa (?). Here everything is jara-rasa. So when rascals, they take Krsna is enjoying with girls, they think in comparison to this jara-rasa. But they do not know that this is not jara-rasa. This is ananda-cinamaya-rasa. That they do not know. Therefore they characterize Krsna differently. They question that "Why Krsna danced with the gopis?" The rascals, they do not know that gopis are not these ordinary girls. They are cinmaya-rasa. Ahladini sakti, expansion of ahladini sakti. They should think that Krsna is the Supreme Brahman. Supreme Brahman, for realizing brahma-sukham, one gives up all material happiness. Tyagena. And the Supreme Brahman is enjoying material happiness? No. They do not know. Therefore it is prohibited that ordinary man should not try to understand radha krsna-pranaya-vikrtir. Because they'll commit offense. They do not know. Therefore Narottama, Narottama dasa Thakura sings,

rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti
kabe hama bujhabo se yugala-piriti

He's hankering. He's looking for days when he will be able to understand what is radha-krsna-pranaya vikrtir. And these ordinary men, they're immediately..., as if, as if they have become more than Narottama dasa Thakura. Radha-Krsna lila... No, you should be very much careful. This Radha-Krsna lila can be understood by the paramahamsa, liberated soul. We should simply worship... Now we are worshiping Radha-Krsna. It is not directly Radha-Krsna; it is Laksmi-Narayana seva. It is not directly... It is not possible... For conditioned soul, there is no possibility of worshiping Radha-Krsna. But we worship through Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Therefore we keep Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu along with Radha-Krsna. By the grace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we may be able to understand Radha Krsna lila some day in our life. Radha krsna-pranaya-vikrtir ahladini saktir asmad ekatmanav api deha-bhedam gatau tau, sri-caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad dvayam caikyam aptam.

So through Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we can be, I mean to say, able, we may be able some day to understand what is Radha Krsna. Anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau samarpayitum unnata ujjvala rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam, harih purata-sundara-dyuti... What is that verse? I forget now. So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by the grace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we should try to understand, we should try to understand Radha-Krsna through Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion, through the Gosvamis. Don't try to... The sahajiya... Then you'll be sahajiya -- smoking bidi and doing all nonsense and singing Radha-Krsna lila on the street and here, there. Going through hell. Radha-Krsna lila is not so cheap. Therefore they are called sahajiya. They have made it cheap. If they want to read Bhagavatam -- immediately rasa-lila. If they want to hear something about Krsna -- immediately rasa-lila. Because it appears similar, just like young boy, young girls. But it is not that. It is ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis tabhir ya eva nija-rupataya kalabhih [Bs. 5.37], Radharani's expansion of Krsna's energy. And the gopis are expansion of Radharani's body. They are not ordinary things. Go on.

Bhavananda: "This evidence from Srimad-Bhagavatam gives assurance to the pure devotee of being elevated to association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Srila Rupa Gosvami remarks in this connection that one who is actually attracted by the beauty of the lotus feet of Sri Krsna or His service and whose heart, by such attraction, is always full with transcendental bliss will naturally never aspire after the liberation which is so valuable to the impersonalists."

Prabhupada: Yes. Liberation, a devotee never... Why liberation? Prabodhananda Sarasvati, he says... Liberation means kaivalya. Kaivalyam narakayate. What is this liberation? It is as good as the hell. Kaivalyam narakayate. Tri-dasa-pur akasa-puspayate (Caitanya-candramrta 5). The persons, they are hankering after being elevated to the heavenly planet. So for a devotee, this is will o' the wisp, phantasmagoria, it has no value. Kaivalyam narakayate tri-dasa-pur akasa-puspayate indriya-kala-sarpa-patali protkhata-damstrayate. And the yogis... Karmis, jnanis, yogis. Karmis are after heavenly planet; jnanis are after kaivalya, liberation; yogis are after controlling the senses. So senses are very dangerous. Everyone knows. Our senses are very strong. Therefore the yoga system is recommended for them who are very much in bodily concept of life. Therefore they are advised to exercise the body to come to the point of spiritual platform. But those who are above bodily concept of life, those senses have been purified.

sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena-hrsikesa
sevanam bhaktir ucyate
 [Cc. Madhya 19.170]

Those who are actually engaged in pure devotion, their senses are purified. Without purified senses, you cannot approach. With ordinary material senses, you cannot approach. Therefore we have to follow the regulative principles. Regulative principle and sinful activities. Otherwise, how we can approach Krsna? Yesam anta-gatam papam. By the senses we commit so many sinful activities. Therefore sin, without being free from sinful activities, nobody can approach Krsna. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. Krsna is pavitram paramam, the supreme purified. So how we can approach Krsna without being purified? Therefore the four principle, regulative principles must be followed. Otherwise, there is no chance of advancing. There is no chance. They are relatively cooperatively helpful, chanting, but one must be willing that "I must be purified to approach Krsna." Otherwise he becomes sahajiya. So "I am approaching Krsna. I can smoke bidi. I can take marijuana. I can..." No. Must be purified. Go on.

Bhavananda: "A similar passage is also there in Third Canto, Fifteenth Chapter, of the same book, wherein Uddhava addresses Lord Krsna and says, 'My dear Lord, for persons who are engaged in Your transcendental loving service there is nothing worth obtaining from religiousness, economic development, sense gratification or liberation, although happiness from these different sources can be very easily had by them.' "

Prabhupada: Therefore devotee's another name is niskincana, akincana. Niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Niskincana. He doesn't possess anything, don't want to possess anything material. These are all material things. What are those? Sense gratification, economic development, liberation. They are all different stages of material existence. And Krsna is not for the persons who are hankering after material possessions. Krsna is far away. Therefore in the Kunti-stotra in Srimad-Bhagavata it is said, niskincanasya gocarah: "You, Krsna, You are understood by persons who have become niskincana." Niskincana. So niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The qualification of devotion is to become a niskincana. Means one should not try to possess anything material. He should simply try to possess Krsna. There must be some possession. The Mayavadi philosophy, to dispossess material things, will not help him. He must possess something positive. Otherwise he'll fall down. That is our... Because we want something. Param drstva nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. So we simply, we try, that "Let me become sannyasi, niskincana." That is not possible. You must take to the service of Krsna. Then when you are fully satisfied that "I possess Krsna. Krsna is within my heart," then you can give up all this nonsense, kick out: "I don't want." Otherwise not possible. So the two things: Niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajano..., param paro jivesa (?). Those who have become ni..., what is this liberation for them? Nothing. The four things, dharma-artha-kama-moksa. So when one takes to this shelter of Krsna's lotus feet, that is the highest dharma, topmost. That is the topmost yoga. So why he should hanker after dharma-artha-kama-moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90]? It is so nice thing. That is the statement of Uddhava. One who has become pure devotee... One who has possessed... Svantah-sthita gadabhrta. He has become purified. But don't imitate. Actually see whether you are always thinking of Krsna. Then it is all right.

niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya
param param jigamisor bhava-sagarasya
visayinam sandarsanam atha yositam ca
ha hanta hanta visa-bhaksanato 'py asadhu
 [Cc. Madhya 11.8]

So we have to become niskincana. But niskincana we can become only when we possess Krsna. Otherwise, not possible. Go on.

Bhavananda: "In spite of such facilities, my dear Lord, I do not aspire to achieve any such results. My only prayer is that I may have unflinching faith and devotion unto Your lotus feet."

Prabhupada: This is the only thing. If we have got unflinching faith and devotion to the lotus feet of Krsna, then we can automatically become niskincana, liberated, developed in economic condition. That is not important thing for a devotee. They come automatically. Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Krsna says. Why he should try for economic development? Krsna personally comes. "You want this. Take it." That is devotee. Why he should hankering after economic development? No. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches: na dhanam na janam na sundarim kavitam va jagadisa kamaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Siksastaka 4]. There is no need of hankering. Krsna knows what he requires, "How My devotee will be satisfied." Krsna knows... If Krsna sees that this devotee has got little desire for some material enjoyment, Krsna will give.

Just like Dhruva Maharaja. Dhruva Maharaja, he went to the forest to worship the Lord, for getting the kingdom of his father or better than that. So although when Dhruva Maharaja saw the Lord he said svamin krtartho 'smi varam na ya..., "I, I don't want anything. I am now fully satisfied", still Krsna gave him Dhruvaloka. Because he desired: "No, you enjoy. Then you come back again." So there is no need of asking any... Krsna knows, as the father knows, the mother knows what is the need of my child; Therefore pure devotee never asks from Krsna anything except His service. Mama janmani janamanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki. "Without any cause let me be engaged in Your service." This is Krsna consciousness, perfection. Go on.

Bhavananda: "A similar passage appears in the Third Canto, 25th Chapter, 31st verse, wherein Kapiladeva instructs His mother and says: 'My Dear Mother, devotees whose hearts are always filled in the service of My lotus feet, and who are prepared to do anything for my satisfaction, especially those who assemble together to understand My qualities, pastimes and form, and thus glorify Me congregationally and derive transcendental pleasure therefrom, such fortunate devotees never desire to become one with Me.' "

Prabhupada: Yes. Go on.

Bhavananda: " 'And not to speak of becoming one with Me, if they are offered a post like Mine in My abode, or opulence like Mine, or even personal association with Me with similar bodily features, they refuse to accept because they are satisfied simply by being engaged in My devotional service.' "

Prabhupada: Yes. All kinds of mukti, sarupya-mukti, sa, sa... Sayujya-mukti, no devotee desires, kicked out. There is no question of sayujya-mukti. But other four kinds of muktis, sarupya-mukti, salokya-mukti, these muktis are desired by the inhabitants of Vaikuntha. Vaikunthesvara. Especially in South India, they worship the Vaisnava, Venkatesa. Venkatesa means Vaikunthesa, the Lord of Vaikuntha. So the, the associates, the devotees of the Lord in Vaikuntha, they desire sarupya-mukti, to have similar feature of the body, four-handed. Visnuduta. And salokya, the same as Narayana is living in Vaikuntha, they also live in Vaikuntha. This is also in the bhakti-marga. But a, a higher advanced devotee, even he does not want all these things. Even... Wherever Krsna puts him, that's all right. It doesn't matter. Yatha tatha vidadhatu lampato mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah. You can, whatever You like, can do. It doesn't matter. I don't want any exchange. I don't want to do business with You. That is pure devotee. Go on.

Bhavananda: "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Fourth Canto, 9th Chapter, 10th verse, King Dhruva says, My dear Lord, the transcendental pleasure derived by meditation upon Your lotus feet, which is enjoyed by the pure devotees, cannot be approached by the transcendental pleasure derived by the impersonalists through self-realization. So how can the fruitive workers who at most can desire to promotion to the higher, heavenly planets understand You, and how can they be described as enjoying a happiness similar to the devotees' happiness.' "

Prabhupada: So there are three kinds of happinesses described, material happiness, spiritual happiness and devotional happiness. Three kinds of happinesses are very nicely described in this chapter.

Thank you very much. (pause) Hare Krsna. (kirtana begins) (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Calcutta, January 30, 1973

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Kali-yuga--Disagree With Guru

Kali-yuga--Disagree With Guru

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.36
Tokyo, January 30, 1974

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Prabhupada: So there are others coming? Eh? Where is Sanjaya? Class, not always everyone attends?

Devotee (1): It's usually everyone.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): Everyone.

Devotee (2): Gopala Swami is the only one.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (2): Just Gopala Swami is not here.

Prabhupada: Not here? Why? Where he is?

Devotee (2): He's straightening your room.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (2): He's cleaning your room.

Prabhupada: And our panditaji swami? Where is he?

Devotee (3): Probably with him.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (3): I don't know where he is.

Prabhupada: Call him.

Devotee (3): You were on verse 36, Chapter Sixteen.

Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)

tayor evam kathayatoh
prthivi-dharmayos tada
pariksin nama rajarsih
praptah pracim sarasvatim

Translation: "While the earth and the personality of religion were thus engaged in conversation, the saintly king Maharaja Pariksit reached the shore of the Sarasvati River, which flowed towards the east."

Prabhupada: So we are discussing the conversation between mother earth and Dharmaraja. The subject matter was that the earthly planet was very much morose on account of arrival of Kali-yuga. (baby fussing) (aside:) It will be disturbing.

Devotee (4): Disturbance? (mother and baby leave)

Prabhupada: So we have discussed the symptoms of Kali-yuga, this age called Kali-yuga. As there are seasonal changes, similarly, in the duration of this material existence, there are seasonal changes. That everyone has got experience. There is summer, there is winter, there is fall, there is spring. So generally the seasonal changes are accepted as Satya-yuga, Treta-yuga, Dvapara-yuga and Kali-yuga. Just like in each year we have got different seasons, changes, similarly, each millennium there are so many changes of Kali-yuga, Dvapara-yuga, Satya-yuga.

So Satya-yuga means the age of truthfulness. Satya means truthfulness. And Kali-yuga means the age of disagreement, the age of disagreement. So at the present moment we are in the Kali-yuga. Everyone disagrees with the other. Even the so-called disciple also disagrees with the spiritual master. This is the influence of Kali-yuga. One becomes disciple of a spiritual master, then he whimsically disagrees. So why, if you disagree, why should you accept somebody as spiritual master? That is not very good. That is the way of not being successful. We are chanting every day that yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. By satisfying the spiritual master, one can satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yasya prasadat, "by the satisfaction of the spiritual master." Samsara-davanala-lidha-loka-tranaya karunya-ghanaghanatvam **. One of the symptom is this, that spiritual master is so bona fide. Before accepting somebody as spiritual master you must know about his bona fides. That time is allowed. It is said in the sastra that if you like to accept somebody as spiritual master, you should associate with him at least for one year, see how things are going. If you follow of course others, that is also good. But personally, it is advised that you just remain with the proposed spiritual master for at least one year, so that the spiritual master is also given chance to study you, whether you are acceptable. This is the process.

But when one leaves a spiritual master, the spiritual master, there may be some reason. That reason is also given in the sastra, gurur api avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanatah(?). Karya akarya. If the spiritual master does not know what is actually to be done, what is actually not to be done, and he acts against the rules and regulations of the sastra, then such spiritual master may be given up. But so long you do not find the spiritual master is doing against the principles of sastra or guru, then if you give up the company of spiritual master, that is not good for you. That is your downfall. First of all, you must take sufficient time to study the movements of a spiritual master. Spiritual master is one -- the spiritual master. Because there may be many spiritual master, but if their business is one -- to satisfy Krsna -- although they're many, they're one. Although they're many, they are still one. The principle is one: to satisfy Krsna. Such is the position of spiritual master, that yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah: ** if you try to please your spiritual master, then God, Krsna, becomes pleased. That is natural.

So in the Kali-yuga why there should be... In Kali-yuga even with the spiritual master there is disagreement. That is due to influence of Kali. That is my point. So this influence of Kali-yuga has been discussed in so many pages in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Last it was discussed that the good qualification of Kali, of human being... Human being, I am speaking, because amongst the living entities, human being is considered to be the highest. So the mother earth was lamenting that people have lost their good qualification. They cannot be lost, but it is, by the influence of Kali-yuga, it is now covered. Satyam, saucam, daya, that twenty-six nice qualifications. We have discussed all these things. Here (reads):

satyam saucam daya ksantis
 tyagah santosa arjavam
samo damas tapah samyam
titiksoparatih srutam

jnanam viraktir aisvaryam
sauryam tejo balam smrtih
svatantryam kausalam kantir
dhairyam mardavam eva ca

So, on account of this Kali-yuga, the good qualification of human society will be lost. Thinking this future of the present age, Mother Earth was lamenting and talking with Dharmaraja. At that time Maharaja Yudhisthira, er, Maharaja Pariksit arrived on that spot. This is the verse.

Tayor evam kathayatoh: while the Dharmaraja and the earthly planet was talking between themselves, prthivi... Prthivi. Tayor evam kathayatoh, prthivi, the earthly planet and dharmayos tada. Tada: "that time," pariksin nama rajarsih. Pariksin nama rajarsih. There were many rajarsis. Rajarsi means although they're occupying the royal position... Raja. Raja and praja. Raja means king or the ruler. Here is also regulative principle. Why a king is accepted? Why a governor is accepted? Why a president is...? Even in this day of democracy -- we have abolished the system of monarchy -- but still, they select somebody to become a monarch, a king, or to occupy the post of the king. That is called president. Why? Because unless there is one head, or on the head of the government, who can actually control... Control means whether citizens are following, executing the rules and regulation, the law of the state. Therefore a certain man, qualified man, who is, who enjoys the confidence of the people, he is accepted as the king. This is the position. So such president, king, or the executive head, must be a saintly person. Therefore here it is said, pariksin nama rajarsih. Rajarsi means those who are on the top of the government, he must be rsi, saintly person. Just like this, our Krsna consciousness movement, the head of the institution must be a saintly person. Otherwise how he can become a controller? Controller there must be. That what is the qualification of the controller? He must be a saintly person. He must know what is the principle of life, what is the value of life, why one should be controlled by somebody else. These things are required to become qualified.

So Maharaja Pariksit, pariksin nama rajarsih. In those days all the kings were like saintly person. They are not ordinary person. Why saintly person required? Because saintly person means he knows what is actually good and what is not good. The actually good of human life is that he's engaged in developing devotional service. That is actually good. In another place of this Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. Paro dharmah. Para means superior, transcendental, or which is para and apara. Para and apara. These words are used. Para means greater and apara means lower, and para means superior and apara means inferior. Here it is spoken, "There are many types of religious systems, but they are apara, not very good, inferior, inferior type." Religion cannot be inferior, but it is sometimes made into inferiority because without such kind inferior type of religion, the inferior class of men will not accept it, will not accept it.

Just like in religious system, in any religious system, the killing of animal there is. In every religious system, there is. But why there is this killing of a living entity? It is not good. But why in the religious system there is permission for killing animal? So that is explained. The explanation is, that a person who is a staunch meat-eater, he cannot give up meat-eating, so... At the same time he wants to be religious. This is the position. For such person it is enjoined, just like in Vedic system, "All right, if you want to eat meat, at the same time you want to become religious, then you worship Goddess Kali. You cannot worship Visnu." Because he's a meat-eater he cannot approach pavitram paramam bhavan. The Supreme Personality is the supreme pure. So this meat-eater is impure. He cannot approach the pure. That is not possible. Therefore he is advised to approach some agent of the pure, some sakti, or just like Goddess Kali. Goddess Kali is the sakti or the agent, potency. She has got also business: to cut the heads of the demons. You have seen the Goddess Kali's picture, munda-mala. She's garlanded with the heads of the demons. Have you seen? Any one of you?

Devotee (3): I have seen kali-puja.

Prabhupada: Yes. But her business is to cut off the heads of the demons. She is carrying one head in this hand, and in this hand she's carrying a chopper, and her business is to cut the heads of the demons. But she's also the agent of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. How she's agent? Because God has got two business: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. Duskrtino mudhah, naradhamah, mayayapahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah. For them the goddess Kali is engaged to cut their heads, kill them. That is also Krsna's agent. Vinasaya ca duskrtam, they have to be finished. But, by finishing them, they are also elevated. Finishing means finishing their sinful activities, finishing their sinful activ... Just like... It is very easy to understand. Just like a person who has committed murder, the state law is, "Finish him, otherwise he will commit another murder." If he's encouraged... Therefore, by finishing him, there are two purposes. One purpose is served that because he has done something very grievous sinful activity, by sacrificing his own life, he becomes relieved from the sinful reaction. That is the law in the Manu-samhita. I have not manufactured. The murderer is condemned to death just to save him from many following resultant actions of sinful activities. If in this life, he gives his life, "Life for life," then he's safe. In the next life, he takes his birth clean, not suffering any more on account of the sinful activities. This is the statement in Manu-samhita. Another instruction is that if this murderer is killed, then he will be saved from committing again murder.

So the vinasaya ca duskrtam, when a demon is killed then he's saved, the people are saved, and everything is good. But people cannot understand that "Why God is killing the demons and giving protection to the devotees?" God is equal to everyone. Krsna says, samo 'ham sarva-bhutesu na me dvesyo 'sti na priyah. Krsna says that "I am equal to everyone." If God is not equal to everyone, then how He can be God? He is God who is equal. Na me dvesyo 'sti na priyah. So when God is killing somebody, and God is patting something, somebody, that does not mean He has got two equal behavior for two persons. No. His behavior is the same: affection. But to kill this demon means to stop him from further sinful activities and get him..., give him release from the sinful activities he has done. Therefore it is His mercy. But one has to study very carefully. Because God is absolute, there is no difference between His activities with the demon and giving protection to a devotee. He is giving protection to the demon also, by killing him. But one cannot understand.

So in this Kali-yuga, rajarsi, this rajarsi... Rajarsi, he's saintly person. Now, we'll find this Pariksit Maharaja, as soon as he'll find this one demon is trying to kill another cow, he immediately took his sword. If he's a rsi, one may inquire that "If he's a saintly person, how is that he's going to kill another person?" So killing is not always bad. But it is not to be judged by you. It is to be judged by the same saintly person: when killing is required, when not killing is required. So that is the qualification of the ksatriya. Ksatriya means one who gives protection. Just like when there is attack in a country, the king or the president gives protection to the citizens by killing the enemies. So his business is to give protection to the citizens. So it may be sometimes by killing others, he gives protection. We have discussed many times the violence and nonviolence. Non... These are contradictory terms, but when these two contradictory things are found in saintly persons, we must know they are all the same, absolute. And what to speak of when these actions are found in Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the absolute nature. Absolute, to understand the absolute nature means two plus two equal two, one plus one equal to one, and one minus one equal to one. This is absolute understanding. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate. Purnasya purnam adaya. One is complete number, purnam. Purnasya purnam adaya. And if you take away complete one, still it is one. This is absolute understanding. It is not that one has been taken away from one; therefore it has become zero. No. That is material. That is relative.

So pariksin nama rajarsih praptah pracim sarasvatim. In India, all the rivers, they're coming from the Himalaya, western side, and flowing toward the eastern side, going to the Bay of Bengal. So pracim, flowing to the eastern side, Sarasvati... This is also one of the famous rivers. There are many rivers in India. Especially there is sacred rivers -- Ganges, Yamuna, Sarasvati, Godavari, Kaveri, Krsna, Narmada, like that. Each river is considered very sacred. So it is understood that Pariksit Maharaja met the Dharmaraja and the earthly planet, talking together on the bank of the river Sarasvati.

That's all right. Thank you very much. (devotees pay obeisances) Any questions?

Devotee (1): Is Dharmaraja King Yudhisthira?

Prabhupada: That King Yudhisthira is the son of Dharmaraja. He is the son. Maharaja Yudhisthira was begotten by Dharmaraja.

Devotee (1): Vidura was also the...

Prabhupada: No, Vidura was begotten by Vyasadeva.

Devotee (1): He was also Dharmaraja?

Prabhupada: No, he was not Dharmaraja. Oh, yes, yes, you are right. He was Dharmaraja.

Devotee (1): Yamaraja.

Prabhupada: Yamaraja, yes. By the cursing of some great rsi, he became a sudra. Yes. I thought that you were asking whether Vidura was begotten by Dharmaraja. No. He's Dharmaraja. Any question? What is the name of that boy?

Devotee (1): Sanjaya.

Prabhupada: Dhananjaya?

Devotee (1): Sanjaya.

Prabhupada: Sanjaya?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: Who has given you this name?

Sanjaya: You have, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Sanjaya uvaca. (laughter) Sanjaya...

Sanjaya: Having heard your wondrous dialogue, Srila Prabhupada, my hair is standing on end.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Sanjaya: Having heard your holy dialogue, Srila Prabhupada, my hair is standing on end, like Sanjaya says in the Gita.

Prabhupada: What is that special...? Which portion?

Sanjaya: This is the last slokas of Bhagavad-gita, when the...

Devotee (1): He's relating the conversation to Dhrtarastra, the final conclusion of Bhagavad-gita, saying, "After hearing this holy dialogue, my hair is standing on end."

Prabhupada: Oh.

Devotee (1): In Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: Ha, ha. You want to know about something, about that verse?

Sanjaya: No, I just stated that...

Prabhupada: Oh.

Sanjaya: ...after hearing your lecture, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Every instruction is like that. We should follow the instruction, and if you cannot understand, then consult the spiritual master. Not to give up this association of the spiritual master and interpret in your own way. That is rascaldom. Don't do that. It is said in the Bhagavad-gita,

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah
 [Bg. 4.34]

If there is any doubt in understanding the Vedic literature, then you try to understand from the person who knows it, tattva-darsi, who has seen actually the truth. Upadeksyanti te jnanam jnaninas tattva-darsinah. One who has actually seen the truth. And, how to approach him? Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena. By surrendering, by giving service, and questioning. Question must be preceded and followed by..., preceded by surrender, and followed by service. In the middle, there may be question. Therefore, yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **, we have to please the spiritual master by service and surrender, and then it will be very nice position. If the spiritual master sees that the disciple is a surrendered soul, and he's rendering service to his best capacity, then the answer will be very liberal and convincing, and he will be very glad to answer the question, if it is supported by these two things: surrender, and pariprasnena, and sevaya. Tad viddhi pranipatena [Bg. 4.34]. The first beginning is pranipata. And what is this, that I give up the company of my spiritual master and I invent my own ways of life and own interpretation? That will not help. That will not...

Devotee (3): The war on the battlefield of Kuruksetra, that lasted for a period of eighteen days?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee (3): And that happened five thousand years ago when Krsna was on earth. Is that happening now in some other material universe, the same battle?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee (3): Can we enter into that, or see that?

Prabhupada: Yes, if you go there.

Devotee (3): We have to... We leave the universe. But then we are associating directly with Krsna and Arjuna?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krsna and Arjuna every twenty-four hours, by reading Bhagavad-gita. Why you require to go there? It is already here. You see. You read the Bhagavad-gita, and you are immediately in the battlefield of Kuruksetra. His is instructing. That was the instruction. Caitanya Mahaprabhu accepted. You know that story? Illiterate brahmana was reading Bhagavad-gita. So he did not know; he was not literary. But because his spiritual master..., he has so staunch faith in the spiritual master... Just see. His spiritual master said that "You read, daily, eighteen chapters of Bhagavad-gita." Spiritual master knew that he was illiterate, but still he asked him, "You read, eighteen chapters, there will be..." So what can he do? The spiritual master has ordered. So he was simply making a show of reading, "uh-uh-uh," like this. So this other friends were criticizing, "Oh, Mr. Such-and-such, how you are reading Bhagavad-gita?" He knows that this man... His friend is criticizing him, so he did not answer. But when Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked him, "My dear brahmana, what you are reading?" He knew that this gentleman, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, was really inquisitive, so he explained the whole thing, that "I am trying to read Bhagavad-gita, but I am illiterate. My Guru Maharaja ordered me to read; therefore I am reading. But actually I cannot read." So frankly he admits. This is staunch faith in spiritual master. He knew, his spiritual master knew that he is illiterate, and he knew also that "I cannot read Bhagavad-gita." But still he was trying to read because his spiritual master has said. This is called staunch. Yasya prasadat. "He has said. I have to satisfy him. I am incompetent -- I cannot read -- but he has said, therefore I must do it." This is called yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **.

So practical example... Just like this Krsna consciousness movement, and I have simply be (indistinct) human being, "What can I do?" But I tried my best, because my spiritual master said that "You go and try to preach in English." So I tried my best, that's all. I have no qualification. So this is very nice point, yasya prasadat. We have to try our best to... I may not be able to do that, but that endeavor will be appreciated by Krsna and the spiritual master. That is required. I may be most incompetent. Everyone is incompetent. Who can satisfy Krsna, this unlimited? But simply what Krsna says, if we do, that will satisfy Him. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. The guidance is, the spiritual master, he orders that man-manah, "Always think of Me," bhava mad-bhaktah, "just become My devotee, worship Me, and offer your obeisances unto Me." And here is the Deity. So that is our business. Think of always, "Here is Radha and Krsna, here is Jagannatha, here is Lord Caitanya." What is the difficulty? In the temple we get direct contact, and if I go out from the temple and lie down on the station, is that very good, do you think? (laughter) Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah. So will it help me to think of Him twenty-four hours by going to the railway station or in the temple? This is common sense. Any sensible man can understand that "Here is Krsna, here is Radharani, worship is going on, the devotees are offering prasadam, always they are constantly engaged -- that is man-mana bhaktah." Or "I give up the association of the devotees and temple and go to hell, that will help me?" This is common sense thing. I manufacture my own way by the advice of some, another rascal. This will not be good. This, this is very good, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. "Always think of Me." Here is the chance. As soon as I see... As I advance in my spiritual life, I'll see, "Here is Krsna." It is not the doll Krsna. Doll Krsna is for the kanistha-adhikari. But one who is advanced, he sees Krsna. Just like you have read the story of, in Caitanya-caritamrta, two brahmanas went to Vrndavana. So the devotee is seeing, "Here is Krsna." When the older brahmana said that "I promise," the younger said, "Sir, you are talking before Krsna. If you regret from this promise, it will be great offense." Because he was seeing Krsna. And when he was asked, "Who was your witness?" he said, "Krsna is witness." And his eldest son took the opportunity, "All right, if your Krsna comes and gives witness, then my sister will be married with you." Because he is atheist. He was thinking, "Krsna is not coming. Krsna is not coming. It is made of marble statue, how Krsna will come?" So he thought that "I have given him some chance which he will never be fulfilled." But to fulfill the words of the devotee, Krsna came. Therefore He is called Saksi-Gopala, witness Gopala. So we must have faith. We must have faith and discharge duties according to the sastra, guru, sadhu, then our spiritual life is guaranteed. If we manufacture something out of whims, that will not help us. This is the point.

Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupada, in Srimad-Bhagavatam it's stated that the Supersoul is measured from the end of the thumb to the end of the ring finger, how does this change take place in the different sizes of species of living entities in this material creation?

Prabhupada: He can become the smaller than the smallest, the higher than..., the bigger than the biggest. That is Krsna's power. (devotees pay obeisances) So, you can go? (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.36 -- Tokyo, January 30, 1974

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

"Business and Brahminical culture"

30 Jan 73 , Calcutta


Prabhupada:Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for kindly inviting me. I'll serve you to my capacity. Today's subject matter is "Culture and Business. So business, we mean business means the occupational duty. According to our Vedic culture, there are different types of businesses. As it is described in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13] -- the four divisions of social system, namely the brahmana, the ksatriya, the vaisya and the sudra. Before doing business, there must be a division who can do what kind of business. There are different businesses. Now we have taken that everyone should take everyone's business. That is not very scientifical division. Therefore there is cultural division. Just like the whole body. The whole body's one unit, but there are different departments also -- just like the head department, the arms department, the belly department and the leg department. This is scientific. The head department is called the brahmana. In the society... And the arms department is called the ksatriyas, and the belly department is called the vaisyas, and the leg department is called the sudras. This is scientific division of business. Although the head department is most important department, because without head, other departments, the arms departments, the belly department and the leg department will be finished. If the arms department is lacking, still business can go on. If the leg department is lacking, the business may go on. But if the head department is not there, if the, your head is cut off from the body, then in spite of having all these arms, legs and bellies, they all become useless. So the head department is meant for culture. Without culture... Just like without head, the arms department, the belly department, the leg department are all useless. Similarly without culture, all these businesses, they creates confusion and chaos. That is the position at the present moment, because there is intermingling of different businesses. There must be one section of people, head department, who should give advice to the other departments. The brahmanas, they're intelligent. They are qualified. Satya sama dama titiksa arjava jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42].

So culture means that one should know what is the aim of life. Without understanding the aim of life, a man without aim is ship without, a ship without rudder. That is an English proverb. So at the present moment, we are missing the goal of life because there is no head department. The whole human society is lacking now real brahmanas who can give advice to the other departments. Just like Arjuna was fighting. He was a military man. His business was to fight. He was engaged in his business, but he was taking at the same time advice of, the advice of the Brahmana deva, Krsna.

namo brahmanya-devaya
go-brahmana-hitaya ca
jagad-dhitaya krsnaya
govindaya namo namah

So the brahmana department, or the adviser department, is described in this verse: namo brahmanya-devaya go-brahmana-hitaya ca. The first thing is taken into consideration, go-brahmana. Why these two things are stressed upon? Because in a society where there is no brahminical culture and where there is no cow protection, it is not human society. So in a chaotic condition, any business you do, it will never be perfect. But in a systematized, systematic, cultural society, you do business. That is perfect. That is the instruction of Srimad-Bhagavata, Bhagavatam. In a meeting in Naimisaranya, where many learned scholars and brahmanas assembled, and Srila Suta Gosvami was giving instruction, he said: atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. The varnasrama is stressed. The Vedic culture means four varnas and four asramas: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra; brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Unless we take to this institution of varnasrama dharma, the whole society will be in chaotic condition.

And the purpose of varnasrama dharma is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. As it is stated in the Visnu Purana:

varnasramacaravata
purusena parah puman
visnur aradhyate pumsam
nanyat tat-tosa-karanam
[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

Just like in a state, you have to satisfy your government; then you are good citizen. Similarly in the cosmic state, taking altogether this whole material creation, if you do not satisfy the Supreme Lord, the proprietor of everything, then it will be chaotic condition. Our Vedic culture means whatever you do, it doesn't matter. You must satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is culture. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya samsiddhim labhate narah [Bg. 18.46]. You can do any business. Any business means the brahmana's business, the ksatriya's business, the vaisya's business and the sudra's business. That is business. Otherwise you can do any business. But business means there are different classes of business. So Bhagavad-gita it is said that one should satisfy by his own business the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yena sarvam idam tatam. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam also it is said: culture means... Atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. The, there are different businesses according to different divisions of human society. But their aim should be svanusthitasya dharmasya. Business means dharma. Another... Dharma means occupational duty. So svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir. One must find out the perfection of his business. That is culture. Culture and business means you may do whatever business you are doing, according to your division, or according to your capacity or according to your qualification. You may be a, a merchant, you may be a professional man, you may be legal adviser, medical man. Whatever you may, it doesn't matter. But if you want perfection in your business, then you must try to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is culture. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, yajnarthe karma. Yajna. Yajna means Visnu, the Supreme Lord. For Him you have to work. Yajnarthe karma. Anyatra karma-bandhana. Otherwise you become bound up by the acts, by the reaction of your activities. Karma-bandhana. And so long you are in the bondage of karma, you have to transmigrate from one body to another.

Unfortunately at the present moment, people do not know that there is soul and the soul transmigrates from one body to another. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantaram praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Big, big professors... I've talked with big, big scientists, professors, but they do not know that there is life after death. They do not know. But according to our Vedic information, we know. And we can ex..., experience in this present life. It is very common thing. Just like a baby has got a body of a boy. The boy has got a body again of a youth, young man. The young man has got a body again of a old man. So similarly, old man, after annihilation of this body, he'll get another body. It is very, quite natural, logical. And we change our body. Although this gross body's destroyed, we change our body by the subtle body. The subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. Just like we forget about this body at night, and the subtle body works. We dream. We are taken away from our home, from our bed, to some other place, and completely forget this body. And when the sleep is over, we forget about the dream and we become attached to this gross body. This is going on -- in our daily experience. So I am the observer. I am sometimes in this gross body and sometimes in the subtle body. But it is changing. But I am the observer. Therefore the inquiry should be that "What is my position? At night I forget my gross body, and during daytime I forget my subtle body. Then what is my real body?" These are the questions.

So this is culture. You may do your business. Just like Arjuna: Arjuna was doing his business. He was a fighter, ksatriya, but he did not forget his culture, hearing Gita from the master. That is culture. If you simply do business and do not cultivate your spiritual life, then it is useless waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8], the sastra says. Svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. So our Krsna consciousness movement is being spread up that "Do not forget your cultural life." We do not say that you stop your business and become a sannyasi like me and give up everything. We do not say. Neither Krsna said that. Krsna never said Arjuna that "You give up your business." "You are ksatriya. You are declining fighting. Oh, it is very abominable. You should not say like that. You must fight." That was Krsna's instruction. So similarly, we Krsna conscious people, we are also advising everyone that "You do not give up your business." Caitanya Mahaprabhu said also: sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. Caitanya Mahaprabhu never said that "You give up your position." Position, giving up is not very difficult. But to cultivate spiritual knowledge, that is required. Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovidah na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah [1.5.18]. Now the animal life, there is no cultivation of spiritual life. That is not possible. The animal cannot cultivate this knowledge. The human beings, if they do not cultivate spiritual knowledge, they're exactly like animals. Dharmena hina pasubhih samanah. So we should be very conscious about our eternal existence. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Nityah sasvato 'yam. We, spirit soul, we are eternal. We are not going to die after the annihilation of this body. This is the cultivation of knowledge. This is called brahma-jijnasa, to know about one's self. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's first disciple, Sanatana Gosvami, he was minister, finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussein Shah, and he retired and approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And he humbly inquired that "These people call me pandita." Because he was brahmana by caste. Naturally we call a brahmana "pandita." So Sanatana Gosvami placed this: "My dear Lord, these people call me pandita, but I am such a pandita that I do not know who I..., what I am." So that is the position of everyone. We may be businessman. We may be in other profession. But if we do not know what I am, wherefrom I have come, why I am under the tribulation of these material laws of nature and where I am going, what is my next life -- if we do not know this, then whatever we are doing, srama eva hi kevalam. Visvaksena-kathasu notpadayed ratim yadi, visvaksena-kathasu yah srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8].

So our request to everyone that you can be engaged in whatever business, in whatever position Krsna has posted you. Do your duty nicely. But do not forget to cultivate Krsna knowledge. Krsna knowledge means God consciousness. God consciousness means we must know that we are part and parcel. Mamaivamso jiva-loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah [Bg. 15.7]. We are eternal part and parcel of Krsna, or God, but we are struggling here, manah-sasthani indriyani prakrti-sthani karsati. Why this struggle for existence? We must know... We have got eternal life. This temporary... Suppose in this temporary life I become Birla or some big businessman for, say, twenty years or fifty years, utmost, hundred years. Next life there is no guarantee that I'm going to be Birla or this man, Tata. No. There is no such guarantee. That we do not take care. We are taking care of the small span of life, but we are not taking care of our life eternal. That is mistake. Suppose in this life I am a very great businessman. Next life, by my karma, if I become something else... There are 8,400,000 species of life, forms of life. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. Nine lakhs of forms of life in the water. Then there are insects. Sthavara laksa... There are trees, plants, two million forms of trees and plants. Krmayo rudra-sankhyakah. Eleven lakhs' species of insects, reptiles. Then birds. Paksinam dasa-laksanam. In this way, we fulfill eight millions of different forms of life. Then we come to the form of human life. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja said that kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha, durlabham manusam janma [SB 7.6.1]. This manusam janma is very, very rare. We should not be satisfied only becoming a very big businessman. We must know what is next life, what I am going to be.

So there are different kinds of men. Some of them are called the karmis, and some of them are called the jnanis, and some of them are called the yogis, and some of them are called the bhaktas. The karmis, they are after material happiness. In this life, also, they want the highest, the best comfort of material life, and after death also they want to be elevated to the heavenly planets. Similarly jnanis, they also want, they being fed up of this material way of life, they want to, they want to merge into the existence of Brahman. That is jnani. The yogis, they also want mystic power. And the bhaktas, they want simply service of the Lord. So unless one understands what is Lord, how he can render service to the Lord? This culture is the highest culture. The karmis' culture, the jnanis' culture, the yogis' culture and the bhaktas' culture -- there are different cultures. So all of them are called yogis if they are doing sincerely their duty. Karma-yogi, jnana-yogi, dhyana-yogi, bhakta-yogi. But Krsna says,

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gata antaratmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah
[Bg. 6.47]

He's first-class yogi. Who is that man? Now, yoginam api sarvesam mad-gata antaratmana: "Who is always thinking of Me." That means Krsna conscious. Krsna says, "Who is always thinking of Me." Yoginam api sarvesam. There are different yogis -- karma-yogi, jnana-yogi, dhyana-yogi. But the best yogi is he who's always thinking of Krsna within himself. Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatena-antaratmana sraddhavan bhajate yo mam. Sraddhavan. With faith and love, one who is giving rendering service to the Lord, he's first-class yogi.

There are other verses in the Bhagavad-gita. [break] ...of cousin-brothers, the Pandavas and the Kauravas. They met there for fighting. That's a historical fact, Mahabharata, Greater India. Mahabharata means Greater, History of Greater India. So everything is there. But we do not take advantage of this great book of knowledge. So we request that everyone should cultivate... Should try to know what he is, what is Krsna, what is their relationship with Krsna, and what is their real life, what is the goal of life. Unless we do cultivate all this knowledge, then it is simply we are wasting our time, this valuable life of human form of life. It is very, very valuable. Durlabham manusam janma tad api adhruvam arthadam. Although everybody will die, that's a fact, but one who dies after knowing all these things, he is benefited. His life is successful. Just like Krsna says, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is wanted. Everyone... The cat will die, dogs will die, everyone will die. That's a fact. But one who dies knowing Krsna, oh, that is successful death. Because Krsna says,

janma karma me divyam
yo janati tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti kaunteya
[Bg. 4.9]

This is success.

So our only request is, wherever we go all over the world, we request only that "You try to understand Krsna. Then your life is successful." It doesn't matter what you do. We have to do something. Krsna says, sarira-yatrapi te prasiddhyet akarmanah. If you stop working, your living condition will be hampered. That is not the question. Everyone has to do his duty. Arjuna also did his duty. He was ksatriya. His business was to acquire kingdom. Because the ksatriyas, they cannot beg. They must have some land. Their business is to levy tax. That is enjoined in the sastras. Brahmanas, they should live by pathana pathana yajana yajana. Ksatriyas should live by giving protection to the people. Vaisyas should live by trade, agriculture, protection of cows. And the sudras should live under the protection of brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sud..., three higher castes. This is the injunction. So one has to do something for his livelihood, but, at the same time, he has to cultivate knowledge for his perfection of life. So this is perfection of life, simple thing. Simple thing we are prescribing all over the world. You try to understand Krsna. Simple. And it is not very difficult. You read Bhagavad-gita as it is. You understand Krsna. Krsna is explaining everything. If the neophytes, one who cannot, cannot understand Krsna, Krsna is prescribing like this: raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh: [Bg. 7.8] "My dear Kaunteya, I am the taste of the water." So there is no need of saying that "I cannot see God. I have not seen God." Here is God. The taste of water is God. Everyone is drinking water. And who is not tasting it? He's seeing God. Why do you say that "I do not see God"? You see, as it is directed by God. Then gradually you'll see Him. If you simply remember this instruction, this one instruction of Bhagavad-gita, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh, "I am the taste of water. I am the shining illumination of sun and moon..." Who has not seen the sunlight? Who has not seen the moonlight? Who has not tasted water? Then why do you say, "I have not seen God"? If you simply practice this bhakti-yoga, as soon as you drink water and taste and be satisfied, "Oh, here is Krsna." So immediately you remember Krsna. As soon as you see sunshine, you remember, "Oh, here is Krsna." As soon as you see moonshine, you remember, "Eh, here is..." As soon as you see something wonderful, paurusam nrsu sabdah khe, as soon as you hear in the sky some sound, so if you remember, "Here is Krsna," that means you are remembering Krsna in every step of your life. And if you're remembering Krsna in every step of life, then you become the topmost yogi. Because Krsna says,

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gata antaratmana
sraddhavan bhajate...
[Bg. 6.47]

Mad-gata antaratmana. If you feel Krsna in every step of life... It is not very difficult. And, above that, if you practice the chanting -- Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare... There is no tax. Your..., there is no loss of your business. You are all businessmen. But if you chant Hare Krsna mantra, if you remember Krsna while drinking water, what is your loss? Why don't you try it? This is cultivation of knowledge, if you cultivate this knowledge, at the same time go on doing your business, your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (applause) [break]

Guest (1): How we can come over the ego?

Prabhupada: You cannot come over. Now you are in false ego. You have to come to the real ego. Now you are thinking, "I am Indian. I am Hindu. I am businessman." These are all false ego. When you come to your real ego, that "I am part and parcel of Krsna, eternal servant of Krsna," that is your real... Ego, you cannot give up. But this is your false ego. You have to give up your false ego, come to the real ego. That's... Purify your ego. That is required. [break] ...dhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Upadhi. At the present moment, I am thinking like that. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brahmana," "I am sudra," "I am black," "I am white" -- these are the egoism of this body. But I'm not this body. Aham brahmasmi. So when you come to that stage... Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. When you come to your real ego, then you become happy. And because you are in false ego, you are unhappy. So ego cannot be changed. Because you are eternal, how you can be, ego can be changed? Just like people say, "Give up desires." How can you desire..., give up desires of a living entity? That is not possible. But I have to purify my desires. That is wanted. Just like if you have got some disease. So if you, some, the physician, they say "Pluck out your eyes," that is not good treatment. But you treat the eyes nicely and the sight may be good. That is wanted. So this bhakti-marga means sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam. That is bhakti-marga. You have to give up your false ego. Sarva upadhi. This is upadhi: "I am this, I am that, and..." This upadhi has created trouble in the world. So we have to come to the real ego. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is mukti. Mukti hitva anyatha rupam svarupena vyavasthitih. Now hitva anyatha rupam. My ego is going on in a different way. Unnecessarily I am spoiling my life with these designations. But we have to come to the point of our real identity. So nothing can be given up. As living entity, I must be egoistic. Law of identity. How can I say that "I am not"? I am. I am existing. But now I am existing with designations. If I give up my designations, if I become purified, that is my real ego. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become nirmala. And when you become nirmala... Hrsikena hrsikesa sevanam bhaktir ucyate. That is bhakti. So your senses are there. Now with my senses I am thinking that "I am the head of this familyman," "I am head of this community," or "I am..., I have to serve. I have to engage my hand in this way, my eyes in this way, my nose in this way." Senses are engaged in a upadhi, designated. But when this is, designation is taken away, when you become nirmala, the senses remain, the dress of the senses taken away, at that time, your senses are engaged in the service of the Lord, and that is called bhakti.

Bhavananda: Are there are any other questions? [break]

Prabhupada: ...service to the humanity. Now you are thinking service to the humanity means a section of humanity. And why should you stick your service to the humanity? When one is serving his own countrymen, Indian, he does not care for the Englishman. So don't speak of humanity. Nobody can serve the whole humanity in the present way. But if you spread Krsna consciousness, that is the best service to the humanity. Just like we are doing. We have no discrimination, that "These are Indians. These are Americans. They are Hindus. They are Muslims. They are Christians." No. Or "They're cats or dogs." That oneness you can see only when you are Brahman-realized. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. Why humanity? Why not the cats and dogs and cows? You are very much anxious to give service to the humanity, but you are sending animals to the slaughterhouse. Why? (indistinct) the lack of knowledge. You do not (indistinct) is part and parcel of God. You cannot select this part and... Therefore the sastra says, yatha taror mula-nisecanena trpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhah [SB 4.31.14]. Just like by watering the root, you can water automatically the branches, the trunks, the twigs, the flowers, the fruits, the leaves -- everything is watered. Sarvarhanam acyutejya. Or by supplying foodstuff to the stomach, you serve all the senses of the body perfectly. Similarly, when you begin to serve Krsna, then not only to the human society, to the animal society, to the tree society. Every society will be served. That is perfect service. And if you simply limit your service, that is, may be good, but that is not good. According to sastra... Just like you simply water the leaves, the leaves will not live. They'll dry. But if you supply water to the root, everything will be protected. So actual service will begin when you are Krsna conscious. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54], samah sarve... That is samah sarvesu. And so long you limit, that is limited service. That is not perfect service.

Guest (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupada: [break] ...immoral(?) generation means godlessness. It is said in the sastra, yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvaih gunaih tatra samasate surah. If you have unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then all the good qualities of demigods will develop unto you. It is not story. It is fact. Just like these European and American students. They, in their previous life, before becoming Krsna consciousness, according to our standard, they were all immoral. Our, in India, illicit sex life still, it is admitted, if it is not followed, to have sex relation with other's wife or other woman except one's wife, that is called immoral or sinful. So in Western countries these things are not immoral or sinful. It is very daily affair. But now, because they have come to Krsna consciousness, they have given up all these things. No illicit sex life. Unless one is married, he must remain brahmacari or vanaprastha or sannyasi. Only grhastha, duly married wife, he can have sex. This is morality. And you should not kill the animals unnecessarily. That is immoral. You are already intoxicated by the influence of maya. You should not be more intoxicated. This is immoral. You should not indulge in gambling. These are immoral. So as soon as you become Krsna consciousness, then all these immoralities vanish immediately. That is the only. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana, sarvaih gunaih tatra samasate su..., harav abhaktsya kuto mahad-guna. One who is not Krsna..., he cannot have any good quality or any morality. That is the decision of the sastra. So if you want to revive the morality of the society, you must take up this Krsna consciousness. Then everything will come.

Guest (1): Sir, this..., why we did not have a world with universal brotherhood, universal love?

Prabhupada: Because you don't want it. Because you don't want it. You do not want. That, that, that is explained in the previous verse, that Krsna says,

sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami...
[Bg. 18.66]

These miserable conditions are there because we are all sinful. So Krsna gives protection that "You surrender unto Me, and I give you protection from the reaction of all sinful life." So who wants Krsna? You do not want. Krsna says, canvassing, but who is accepting? Then how you can get, I mean to say, liberty or liberation from these sinful activities? Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo. People suffer on account of sinful activities. There are two things, papa and punya. So if you follow the path of papa, then you must suffer. Just like state laws. If you become criminal, you must suffer. You must go to the prison house. You, you cannot argue that "Why government has created the prison house? Why?" Can you argue like that? Yes, there is necessity. The government knows that there will be some rascals who will commit criminal activities; therefore there must be prison house. So this material world is prison house. Every one of us, we are member of the prison house-first class, second class, third class. Just like in the prison house there are different classes. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You cannot expect treatment in the prison house just like son-in-law. No. That is not possible. You must suffer. Otherwise, what is the meaning of prison house? Similarly, Krsna says, although Krsna has created this world, He says this is duhkhalayam asasvatam, this is the place of misery. And asasvatam. You cannot make any arrangement. "All right, Sir, let it be duhkhalayam. Let me remain here." No. That also you cannot remain. You'll be kicked out. This is the place like that. But Krsna gives you the idea how you can be happy, how you can get out of this. He says, mam upetya kaunteya duhkhalayam asasvatam napnuvanti [Bg. 8.15].

janma karma me divyam
yo janati tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti...
[Bg. 4.9]

Krsna is canvassing you that "You try to understand Me. Come back." But you do not want it. So how Krsna can save you? You have got the independence. Krsna said to Arjuna, "Now I (have) explained to you everything. Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Now, whatever you like, you do." So we have got that little independence because we are part and parcel of God. God has got supreme independence and we, being part and parcel... Just like you are all big businessmen. You have got supreme independence in business. Similarly, your sons, they have got also some independence, although subjected. Similarly, we, being part and parcel of God, sons of God, we have got little independence. If we misuse that independence, then we become subjected to all these tribulations. But if we do not misuse... As Krsna says, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. So it is up to you. If you want to remain in this world of duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15], you can do so. But if you want to get out of it, you can do so. That is up to you. It is not Krsna's fault. Krsna has given you liberty, little independence, whatever. Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. He's given you chance. You want to do this -- "All right, do it." You want to do this? "Do this." He's giving you chance. There is a verse, sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. He's situated in everyone's heart. He's understanding what you want, and He's giving you all chance: "All right, have it. Enjoy it." But His instruction is that "This will not make you happy." Sarva-dharman parityaja mam ekam. You do not do it. You must suffer. That is not Krsna's fault. That is your fault.

Guest (1): A small thing. Will Your Reverence have... [break]

Prabhupada: So you have no right to do so.

Guest (1): Say instead of Hare Rama Hare Rama, we say Visva ramane rahim, or something like that, will you have no objection to that?

Prabhupada: No objection.

Guest (1): And will you say...

Prabhupada: But that is no objection.

Guest (1): ...that efficacy will be the same?

Prabhupada: Yes. If Bismillah means Hare Krsna... It is a question of language. So if meaning the same thing, Hare Krsna... Hare Krsna means we are addressing the Supreme Lord and His energy. Hara means the energy of the Supreme Lord, and Krsna means the Supreme Lord. So we are addressing, "My dear Lord, my dear the energy of Lord..." Because Lord and His energy, they are, they are always existing. Just like sun and the sunshine, they're always existing. Sunshine is the energy, but sun is the energetic. Similarly, the Lord is there and His energy's also there. So we are praying both to the energy and to the Lord: "Please engage me in Your service. I am serving maya. I am not happy. Therefore, please engage me in Your..." My, my constitutional position is to serve. Just like you're all sitting here. Every one of you are servant. If you consider that you are master, that is a mistake. That is maya. Every one of you are servant. So "I am serving, but now I am serving maya. I'm not happy. Let me serve You." This is the meaning of Hare Krsna. So if it means that, there is no objection. It is a question of language. It does mean (indistinct). Of course, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-saktis tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says the, the person whose name we chant, holy name, in each, in each holy Allah, or something like that, that is not objected if it is actually meaning the Supreme. If it is meaning something else, that is another thing. This question... Just like water or jala. It (is) the same thing. It is simply a different name. If I ask water, you'll give me the water actually, and if I say, jala, you'll give me the same. So if the meaning is all right, then there is no objection. If the meaning is different, then there is objection. We are not fighting with the language. We are not concerned with the language.

Guest (2): Why God created sinful activities?

Prabhupada: You have created. God has not created. You have created. Yes.

Guest (1): In what respect?

Prabhupada: You have created.

Guest (1): In what respect I have created?

Prabhupada: You want to kill animals. God does not say that "You kill animals." So you have created sinful activities.

Guest (1): I am a part and parcel of the almighty God.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): So when animals are butchered, why the butcher does not get pain?

Prabhupada: Butcher does not get pain? Do you know that? There is a Sanskrit verse that vyadha ma jiva, ma mara: "My dear butcher, you don't live, don't die." Do you think this butcher, that butchering work is very palatable work? Can you see it, before you, a man is killed, an animal is killed? So he has become accustomed. It pains him. But that work is so abominable that he should not live for executing that work. But what is the benefit of dying? Because after death, he will be butchered. Therefore the sastra says, ma jiva ma mara: "Don't live, don't die." Yes.

Indian man: There is some difference. When we do some good, we consider it as God-inspired, but when we do something bad, then we can't say that it is also God-inspired after we have done it?

Prabhupada: I do not follow what he says.

Guest (2): He says that the inspiration comes from the God for the all works.

Prabhupada: God inspiration comes for every work. That's a fact. But we deny... Just like... You take this simple exam, example. Just like a thief. From within, he's forbidden: "Don't commit theft." But he does it. He does it. You have got all experience about these things. God says from within, "Don't do it," but we do it. That is the defect of without being Krsna consciousness. Just like a thief. He knows that for his criminal activities he'll be punished. He has seen it, that a thief is arrested and he's taken to the prison house. And he has heard from the sastra and from lawbooks that committing theft is not good. Why does he commit it? He knows and he has seen it. Why does he do it? Can you answer? He knows that it is not good, and he has heard it from sastra and from learned lawyers. But why does he do it? This is the influence of nature. As he associated with the nature, ignorance, dark ignorance. He cannot check it. Therefore the best service to humanity is to give him knowledge. Because everyone is in ignorance. Parabhavas tavad abodha-jata yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam. Everyone is being defeated out of this ignorance. Therefore one should come to the platform of inquiring about the self. That is the best service, athato brahma jijnasa, To revive, invoke people to inquire about Brahman, and that will solve all the questions.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Lecture at Bharata Chamber of Commerce "Culture and Business" -- Calcutta, January 30, 1973

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.