Caracas, Febuary 21, 1975
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Prabhupada: University education is
simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is
different. Education is brahma-vidya, self-realization. Therefore in politics
the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government,
revolution. Why? From nature's study we can see one tree is producing a
particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But
these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every
year. Nature's way -- the sun is rising from the eastern side -- that is
standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, "Let the sun rise from the
north." It is childish, simply childish. "Eastern philosophers, Western..." What
is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy. Why they talk of Eastern,
Western?" Eastern sun, Western sun." Sun is always Eastern, never Western. How
one can say, "Western sun?" [break] Just see. It is in the water, but the water
is not over it. If the water increases, it also increases. See? There is no
water on the leaf. Here you see. The water must be always down. [break]
...falling from the top of the Sumeru Hill, a big tree, and the juice, after
falling down, turns into a river of mango juice. And the blackberries, they are
just like the body of elephant and small seed. They also turn into river,
Jambu-nada. And the both sides of the river, being moistened by the juice and
dried by air and interacted by the sunshine, it becomes gold. And that gold is
used for the denizens of heaven for their ornaments, helmets, bracelet, belt.
Where is gold here? Paper. They cannot make even gold coins. They are reducing
into poverty. In our childhood we have seen gold coin currency, silver coin. And
now there is no such thing. Plastic. Paper and plastic. This is their
advancement. Yes, it is a nice garden.Srutakirti: Yes.
[break]
Hrdayananda: Things are very rapidly reducing.
Prabhupada: Yes. There will be no rice, no wheat, no sugar, no fruits, gradually. So much sinful activities, they must be punished like that. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...a question from the lawyer?
Prabhupada: Hm, don't come near. What is that?
Hrdayananda: He wanted to know what is the relation between the Vedic culture of India and the cultures that originally were in Latin America. There seemed to be some similarity, cultures such as the different Indian cultures.
Prabhupada: Formerly the whole world was Vedic culture. They have deteriorated, and India a simply glimpse is maintained still. And everywhere it is lost. (loud screeching noise of birds) Why they are angry?
Srutakirti: They're in a cage.
Paramahamsa: They're in, and we are out.
Prabhupada: Only birds?
Srutakirti: Do they have any other animals here, prabhu? Yeah? There are others.
Prabhupada: Animals? No.
Srutakirti: Bobcat or something? Mountain lion?
Hrdayananda: He asked a question about... In Latin America there's much belief or superstition in this so-called lost city of Atlantis. It's very famous all around the western world that there was a lost civilization called Atlantis. It fell down into the ocean.
Prabhupada: Maybe.
Hrdayananda: You said that by committing sinful activities one has to be punished by the laws of nature. So if one is repentant is he still punished?
Prabhupada: Yes, provided he is actually repentant.
Hrdayananda: Then he is not punished?
Prabhupada: Punished, but short cut. Karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam [Bs. 5.54]. That is for the devotees, not for the nondevotee. Nondevotee must be punished. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...ask a lot that if there could be a Krsna conscious society, would this mean to stop the industry and technology?
Prabhupada: Industry, technology you can continue, but practically it has no use. [break] Just like there is the bench, you can sit down on the ground, and to sit down little comfortably you manufacture the bench. So for sitting down, you can utilize the ground, but you are unnecessarily wasting your time and manufacturing... This is industry. [break] ...philosophy is that we have to save time for becoming fully Krsna conscious. That is our necessity. And if we divert our energy for sitting down comfortably, then time is wasted. That... There is natural mattress, and there is a natural pillow, so why should you manufacture pillow and mattress? This is Sukadeva Gosvami. And there is natural food, fruits. So... And if you want still nice home, go to the cave. It is already made. Why should you waste your time? This is the Bhagavata philosophy. But they are wasting time simply how to live in nice apartment, how to manufacture nice mattress, pillow. This is... So the whole philosophy is: save your time and make your life perfect within this short duration of life which you have obtained in this human form of life. Durlabham manusam janma. It is very rarely you have got. Utilize it. And if you don't utilize, if you waste your time in these bodily comforts and next life you become a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? They do not understand this. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...sometimes they raise... Just like you pointed out in the preface of the Bhagavatam that we're no longer in the Dark Ages in the sense that previously there was no communication due to the geographical boundaries and that even though other forms of technology may be useless, at least it's very beneficial to have different forms of communication such as telephone, telegraph, things like this, television. This is actually necessary.
Prabhupada: But that you can utilize for spreading Krsna consciousness, not for sense gratification. That is the defect. They are simply wasting time in sense gratification. If the telephone and the telegraph, television is used for propagating Krsna consciousness, then it is all right. But they are not doing that. We are utilizing the modern press facilities for printing Vedic scriptures. But they are utilizing the press for sex literature, Freud's philosophy. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...policy towards the problem of overpopulation and food shortage in the world now when the world leaders are not willing to do anything? What is our policy towards these problems?
Prabhupada: Produce food. But you are producing bolts and nuts. You eat them. Motor tire, you are producing motor tire, bolts and nuts. You eat it. (Hrdayananda translates into Spanish) (laughter) The energy is spoiled, creating problem. Everyone is engaged in manufacturing motor parts.
Guest: (Hrdayananda translates) He's saying that he himself is involved with political leaders, and he said he's found that they're completely unwilling. They don't want to hear anything about the solution, and they're completely stuck to their own way. So what can ISKCON do...
Prabhupada: They will suffer, that's all.
Hrdayananda: He said is there anything we can do in the political field to try to...
Prabhupada: If they will not take, they don't want to hear, then they must suffer.
Hrdayananda: He's saying all the human race is suffering due to the bad points of the leaders.
Prabhupada: Yes, because the rascal leaders.
Hrdayananda: So there's nothing that we should do? [break] This food relief program that you started in India could also be used in other countries where there are also economic problems.
Prabhupada: Why not? But prasadam, not ordinary food. From all our centers you can distribute food, prasadam, because that prasadam means they will gradually become Krsna conscious. Otherwise if you give them ordinary food, they will get strength, and they will increase their sex desire, that's all, problems. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...the movement who previously had been expert in mathematics, how could he use that for Krsna's service if he's expert in mathematics?
Prabhupada: Mathematics? So you can calculate, "After so many years the whole universe will be destroyed." (laughter) Not of the universe but everyone's life. This body will be destroyed. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. And again you get another body. It will stay for so many years. Again you annihilate. Again you get. In this way eternal time is being wasted.
Hrdayananda: In the modern world the engineers are designing everything. So how can an engineer use his talent for Krsna?
Prabhupada: Design a temple, nice temple. There are wonderful temples, very expert engineering. And they were ordinary men but the engineer was so nice that nobody can manufacture such temple in the whole world, still.
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada, that was really wonderful, what you explained, that previously the people would build a very wonderful temple, and the ordinary people would just live in a very common, simple house.
Prabhupada: Not for themselves. They knew the art how to manufacture nice building, but they did not care for personal use. It was used for Krsna. Sometimes only the kings, in order to keep their position, they used to have gorgeous building. Otherwise ordinary men, cottage. [break] To live in cottage means to save time.
Mexican devotee: Srila Prabhupada, in one of the magazines I read that there was a saint who he didn't even construct a rug?
Prabhupada: Yes. Romaharsana. [break] Bhagavad-gita it is said, yajnad bhavanti parjanyah, yajnad bhavanti parjanyah. If there is timely cloud and rainfall, this ground can be moistened very easily. But they won't perform yajna; therefore there is scarcity of cloud and rain. Now they have to manufacture this sprinkler. And it is not perfect. [break]
Hrdayananda: Another question, Prabhupada. He said that you have stated that Kali-yuga will last for around 400,000 more years and then it will be finished and that the culture will gradually degrade, people will become very short and so on and so forth. So he's wondering if there will be geographical changes in the world or if the culture as we know it now will simply disappear and how the people will be... More or less, he's wondering what will become of the earth.
Prabhupada: Because they will not get sufficient food, shelter, bodily necessities. Just like it is already declining, already declining. Just formerly in our childhood we saw the Western people very tall. Now they are not tall. They are decreasing already. [break] In the Western countries, still there are some but in other countries they are very lean, thin and drawn. Stature of the body will decrease. Memory will decrease. It is already taking place. So in this way, you just imagine, in 400,000 years after, what will be the condition. You take mathematical calculation. (laughter) [break]
Hrdayananda: He's asking again about geographically, what will it be like as far as temperatures and the different continents. That's what he's interested in.
Prabhupada: Yes, gradually everything will be barren. At the end of annihilation everything will be barren and by scorching the sunlight will be twelve times higher. So everything will be barren and burned into ashes.
Devotee: Hiranyaksa was taking the gold from the earth. Now they are taking the oil. So the weight, the oil makes weight in some parts of the globe, no? So when they take it and they put it some place else or they convert it in the earth, the earth is losing weights in some parts. That is no going to cause...
Prabhupada: I think I have explained this. Instead of contemplating what will happen to this world, you have got a short duration of life, say fifty, sixty years. You chant Hare Krsna and go back to home, back to Godhead. Don't consider what will happen to this world. The nature will take care of it. You don't puzzle your brain with these thoughts. You utilize whatever time you have got in your possession and go back to home, back to Godhead. [break] You cannot check it. Best thing is that you mold your life and go back to home, back to Godhead. "Oil in your own machine." Instead of thinking what will happen... They will happen. Because people will go on with their rascal civilization, natural consequences will be there. You better take advantage of whatever time you have got and become fully Krsna conscious and go back to home. [break] ...and we are thinking, "You are crazy. You are losing the opportunity of life." Therefore I wrote that "Who is Crazy?" They have got this opportunity, human form of life, to make a solution of all problems, but they do not care for it. They are simply allured, the temporary happiness of this body, and the body will finish within some years. That they do not take care. They think it is all in all, body.
Hrdayananda: So that's animal life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Animal civilization. The animal is running without motor car. We are running on motor car. That is the difference. [break] ...smallpox. One who does not know the science, he will say accidental. It is not accidental. You contaminated the disease somewhere, and now it is visible, manifest. There is nothing like accident. Otherwise why it is Brahma-samhita says, sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1]. Karana means cause. Everything has got cause. The ultimate cause is Krsna. [break] The cause is petrol, oil, but what is the cause of this petrol, they do not know.
Hrdayananda: That would be real science to know the cause of the petrol.
Prabhupada: Yes. How petrol is produced in so large quantity? Who has made this arrangement? How it is producing? They are not interested.
Hrdayananda: So as you were saying then, just to manipulate the petrol in different ways, that's like the art, as you've been saying.
Prabhupada: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Krsna. His intelligence is also made by Krsna. Krsna is giving the body. Krsna is giving the intelligence. Krsna is giving the wood. Krsna is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Hrdayananda: That's practically the law everywhere.
Prabhupada: Everywhere.
Hrdayananda: Carpenter comes and he pays him.
Prabhupada: And he is given payment. He is given food, shelter, everything, to work for Krsna. Now Krsna, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam [Bg. 5.29]. Whatever activities are going on there, the enjoyer is Krsna, nobody else.
Hrdayananda: So that's like a new light that you have given. I noticed in your lectures that you were always saying that these things were art. It took a while for me to understand it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nothing belongs to you. Why should you claim it is yours? They are claiming North America "ours," South America "ours." So how it became yours? It was already there, and you came as a immigrant, and it becomes yours? [break] Karmis, they are claiming, "It is our property." And the jnanis, they are living that "This is mithya," and give it up. Both of them in the wrong. It is created by somebody, how you can say mithya, false? Mayavadi says, brahma satyam jagan mithya: "The whole cosmic manifestation is false." How it is false? And karmis, they are claiming unnecessarily, "It is mine." Creator is different person, and he is claiming, "mine". That is also false.
Hrdayananda: So they are both envious of Krsna.
Prabhupada: They do not know Krsna. Foolish. (end)
Hrdayananda: Things are very rapidly reducing.
Prabhupada: Yes. There will be no rice, no wheat, no sugar, no fruits, gradually. So much sinful activities, they must be punished like that. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...a question from the lawyer?
Prabhupada: Hm, don't come near. What is that?
Hrdayananda: He wanted to know what is the relation between the Vedic culture of India and the cultures that originally were in Latin America. There seemed to be some similarity, cultures such as the different Indian cultures.
Prabhupada: Formerly the whole world was Vedic culture. They have deteriorated, and India a simply glimpse is maintained still. And everywhere it is lost. (loud screeching noise of birds) Why they are angry?
Srutakirti: They're in a cage.
Paramahamsa: They're in, and we are out.
Prabhupada: Only birds?
Srutakirti: Do they have any other animals here, prabhu? Yeah? There are others.
Prabhupada: Animals? No.
Srutakirti: Bobcat or something? Mountain lion?
Hrdayananda: He asked a question about... In Latin America there's much belief or superstition in this so-called lost city of Atlantis. It's very famous all around the western world that there was a lost civilization called Atlantis. It fell down into the ocean.
Prabhupada: Maybe.
Hrdayananda: You said that by committing sinful activities one has to be punished by the laws of nature. So if one is repentant is he still punished?
Prabhupada: Yes, provided he is actually repentant.
Hrdayananda: Then he is not punished?
Prabhupada: Punished, but short cut. Karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam [Bs. 5.54]. That is for the devotees, not for the nondevotee. Nondevotee must be punished. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...ask a lot that if there could be a Krsna conscious society, would this mean to stop the industry and technology?
Prabhupada: Industry, technology you can continue, but practically it has no use. [break] Just like there is the bench, you can sit down on the ground, and to sit down little comfortably you manufacture the bench. So for sitting down, you can utilize the ground, but you are unnecessarily wasting your time and manufacturing... This is industry. [break] ...philosophy is that we have to save time for becoming fully Krsna conscious. That is our necessity. And if we divert our energy for sitting down comfortably, then time is wasted. That... There is natural mattress, and there is a natural pillow, so why should you manufacture pillow and mattress? This is Sukadeva Gosvami. And there is natural food, fruits. So... And if you want still nice home, go to the cave. It is already made. Why should you waste your time? This is the Bhagavata philosophy. But they are wasting time simply how to live in nice apartment, how to manufacture nice mattress, pillow. This is... So the whole philosophy is: save your time and make your life perfect within this short duration of life which you have obtained in this human form of life. Durlabham manusam janma. It is very rarely you have got. Utilize it. And if you don't utilize, if you waste your time in these bodily comforts and next life you become a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? They do not understand this. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...sometimes they raise... Just like you pointed out in the preface of the Bhagavatam that we're no longer in the Dark Ages in the sense that previously there was no communication due to the geographical boundaries and that even though other forms of technology may be useless, at least it's very beneficial to have different forms of communication such as telephone, telegraph, things like this, television. This is actually necessary.
Prabhupada: But that you can utilize for spreading Krsna consciousness, not for sense gratification. That is the defect. They are simply wasting time in sense gratification. If the telephone and the telegraph, television is used for propagating Krsna consciousness, then it is all right. But they are not doing that. We are utilizing the modern press facilities for printing Vedic scriptures. But they are utilizing the press for sex literature, Freud's philosophy. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...policy towards the problem of overpopulation and food shortage in the world now when the world leaders are not willing to do anything? What is our policy towards these problems?
Prabhupada: Produce food. But you are producing bolts and nuts. You eat them. Motor tire, you are producing motor tire, bolts and nuts. You eat it. (Hrdayananda translates into Spanish) (laughter) The energy is spoiled, creating problem. Everyone is engaged in manufacturing motor parts.
Guest: (Hrdayananda translates) He's saying that he himself is involved with political leaders, and he said he's found that they're completely unwilling. They don't want to hear anything about the solution, and they're completely stuck to their own way. So what can ISKCON do...
Prabhupada: They will suffer, that's all.
Hrdayananda: He said is there anything we can do in the political field to try to...
Prabhupada: If they will not take, they don't want to hear, then they must suffer.
Hrdayananda: He's saying all the human race is suffering due to the bad points of the leaders.
Prabhupada: Yes, because the rascal leaders.
Hrdayananda: So there's nothing that we should do? [break] This food relief program that you started in India could also be used in other countries where there are also economic problems.
Prabhupada: Why not? But prasadam, not ordinary food. From all our centers you can distribute food, prasadam, because that prasadam means they will gradually become Krsna conscious. Otherwise if you give them ordinary food, they will get strength, and they will increase their sex desire, that's all, problems. [break]
Hrdayananda: ...the movement who previously had been expert in mathematics, how could he use that for Krsna's service if he's expert in mathematics?
Prabhupada: Mathematics? So you can calculate, "After so many years the whole universe will be destroyed." (laughter) Not of the universe but everyone's life. This body will be destroyed. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. And again you get another body. It will stay for so many years. Again you annihilate. Again you get. In this way eternal time is being wasted.
Hrdayananda: In the modern world the engineers are designing everything. So how can an engineer use his talent for Krsna?
Prabhupada: Design a temple, nice temple. There are wonderful temples, very expert engineering. And they were ordinary men but the engineer was so nice that nobody can manufacture such temple in the whole world, still.
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada, that was really wonderful, what you explained, that previously the people would build a very wonderful temple, and the ordinary people would just live in a very common, simple house.
Prabhupada: Not for themselves. They knew the art how to manufacture nice building, but they did not care for personal use. It was used for Krsna. Sometimes only the kings, in order to keep their position, they used to have gorgeous building. Otherwise ordinary men, cottage. [break] To live in cottage means to save time.
Mexican devotee: Srila Prabhupada, in one of the magazines I read that there was a saint who he didn't even construct a rug?
Prabhupada: Yes. Romaharsana. [break] Bhagavad-gita it is said, yajnad bhavanti parjanyah, yajnad bhavanti parjanyah. If there is timely cloud and rainfall, this ground can be moistened very easily. But they won't perform yajna; therefore there is scarcity of cloud and rain. Now they have to manufacture this sprinkler. And it is not perfect. [break]
Hrdayananda: Another question, Prabhupada. He said that you have stated that Kali-yuga will last for around 400,000 more years and then it will be finished and that the culture will gradually degrade, people will become very short and so on and so forth. So he's wondering if there will be geographical changes in the world or if the culture as we know it now will simply disappear and how the people will be... More or less, he's wondering what will become of the earth.
Prabhupada: Because they will not get sufficient food, shelter, bodily necessities. Just like it is already declining, already declining. Just formerly in our childhood we saw the Western people very tall. Now they are not tall. They are decreasing already. [break] In the Western countries, still there are some but in other countries they are very lean, thin and drawn. Stature of the body will decrease. Memory will decrease. It is already taking place. So in this way, you just imagine, in 400,000 years after, what will be the condition. You take mathematical calculation. (laughter) [break]
Hrdayananda: He's asking again about geographically, what will it be like as far as temperatures and the different continents. That's what he's interested in.
Prabhupada: Yes, gradually everything will be barren. At the end of annihilation everything will be barren and by scorching the sunlight will be twelve times higher. So everything will be barren and burned into ashes.
Devotee: Hiranyaksa was taking the gold from the earth. Now they are taking the oil. So the weight, the oil makes weight in some parts of the globe, no? So when they take it and they put it some place else or they convert it in the earth, the earth is losing weights in some parts. That is no going to cause...
Prabhupada: I think I have explained this. Instead of contemplating what will happen to this world, you have got a short duration of life, say fifty, sixty years. You chant Hare Krsna and go back to home, back to Godhead. Don't consider what will happen to this world. The nature will take care of it. You don't puzzle your brain with these thoughts. You utilize whatever time you have got in your possession and go back to home, back to Godhead. [break] You cannot check it. Best thing is that you mold your life and go back to home, back to Godhead. "Oil in your own machine." Instead of thinking what will happen... They will happen. Because people will go on with their rascal civilization, natural consequences will be there. You better take advantage of whatever time you have got and become fully Krsna conscious and go back to home. [break] ...and we are thinking, "You are crazy. You are losing the opportunity of life." Therefore I wrote that "Who is Crazy?" They have got this opportunity, human form of life, to make a solution of all problems, but they do not care for it. They are simply allured, the temporary happiness of this body, and the body will finish within some years. That they do not take care. They think it is all in all, body.
Hrdayananda: So that's animal life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Animal civilization. The animal is running without motor car. We are running on motor car. That is the difference. [break] ...smallpox. One who does not know the science, he will say accidental. It is not accidental. You contaminated the disease somewhere, and now it is visible, manifest. There is nothing like accident. Otherwise why it is Brahma-samhita says, sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1]. Karana means cause. Everything has got cause. The ultimate cause is Krsna. [break] The cause is petrol, oil, but what is the cause of this petrol, they do not know.
Hrdayananda: That would be real science to know the cause of the petrol.
Prabhupada: Yes. How petrol is produced in so large quantity? Who has made this arrangement? How it is producing? They are not interested.
Hrdayananda: So as you were saying then, just to manipulate the petrol in different ways, that's like the art, as you've been saying.
Prabhupada: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Krsna. His intelligence is also made by Krsna. Krsna is giving the body. Krsna is giving the intelligence. Krsna is giving the wood. Krsna is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Hrdayananda: That's practically the law everywhere.
Prabhupada: Everywhere.
Hrdayananda: Carpenter comes and he pays him.
Prabhupada: And he is given payment. He is given food, shelter, everything, to work for Krsna. Now Krsna, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam [Bg. 5.29]. Whatever activities are going on there, the enjoyer is Krsna, nobody else.
Hrdayananda: So that's like a new light that you have given. I noticed in your lectures that you were always saying that these things were art. It took a while for me to understand it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nothing belongs to you. Why should you claim it is yours? They are claiming North America "ours," South America "ours." So how it became yours? It was already there, and you came as a immigrant, and it becomes yours? [break] Karmis, they are claiming, "It is our property." And the jnanis, they are living that "This is mithya," and give it up. Both of them in the wrong. It is created by somebody, how you can say mithya, false? Mayavadi says, brahma satyam jagan mithya: "The whole cosmic manifestation is false." How it is false? And karmis, they are claiming unnecessarily, "It is mine." Creator is different person, and he is claiming, "mine". That is also false.
Hrdayananda: So they are both envious of Krsna.
Prabhupada: They do not know Krsna. Foolish. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
