Revive Our Relationship with Krishna

68/11/27 Los Angeles, Bhagavad-gita 2.8-12

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Prabhupada: Read. Hare Krsna. Yes, Second Chapter

Devotee: Start at verse 8. "I can find no means to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not even be able to destroy it if I win an unrivaled kingdom on the earth with sovereignty like the demigods in heaven [Bg. 2.8]. Sanjaya said: Having spoken thus, Arjuna, chastiser of the enemy told Krsna, Govinda, ‘I shall not fight,' and fell silent [Bg. 2.9]. O descendant of Bharata, at that time Krsna, smiling in the midst of both the armies, spoke the following words to the grief-stricken Arjuna [Bg. 2.10]. The Blessed Lord said..."

Prabhupada: So when we become very serious in a dangerous position, as if we are lost, but Krsna smiles. You see? Sometimes we think... This is called illusion. The same example, just a man in dreaming, crying, "There is tiger, there is tiger. It is eating me," and the man who is awakened, he smiles, "Where is the tiger?" (chuckles) "Where is the tiger?" And this man is crying, "Tiger, tiger, tiger." Similarly, when we are very much perplexed... Just like the politicians, they are sometimes perplexed in political situation and claiming, "This is my land, my country," and other party also claiming, "It is my land, my country," and they are fighting very gravely. Krsna smiles. "What these nonsense are claiming ‘my country, my land'? It is My land, and they are claiming ‘my land' and fighting." Actually, the land belongs to Krsna, but these people, under illusion, claiming, "It is my land, it is my country," forgetting how long he shall belong to this country or this nation. That is called illusion.

So this is our position. Without understanding our real position we are perplexed with these all worldly problems, which are all false. Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Moha, moha means illusion. This is the illusion. So everyone is under this illusion. So one who is intelligent, if he can understand that this worldly position is simply illusion... The, all the thoughts which I have concocted, based on the principle of "I" and "mine," this is all illusion. So one, when one is intelligent to get out of the illusion, he surrenders to a spiritual master. That is being exemplified by Arjuna. When he's too much perplexed... He was talking with Krsna as friend, but he saw that "This friendly talking will not solve my question." And he selected Krsna... Because he knew the value of Krsna. At least, he ought to have known. He is friend. And he knows that Krsna is accepted... "Although He is acting as my friend, but by great authorities Krsna is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That was known to Arjuna. So he said that "I'm so much puzzled that I cannot understand. Even accepting that I shall be victorious in this battle, still I shall not be happy. What to speak of being victorious on this planet, if I become the king of all other planets or if I become a demigod in the higher planetary system, still this distress cannot be mitigated." You see?

Devotee: Verse 11: "The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead [Bg. 2.11]." Purport: "The Lord at once took the position of a teacher and chastised his student, calling him indirectly a fool. The Lord said, ‘You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned, one who knows what is body and what is soul, does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition.' As explained in the later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is more important than religious formularies. And because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man. As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. The body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow. Therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned. For him there is no cause for lamentation in any stage of the material body."

Prabhupada: He says, Krsna says, that "This body, either dead or alive, has nothing to be lamented." Dead body, suppose when the body is dead, it has no value. What is the use of lamenting? You can lament for many thousands of years, it will not come to life. So there is no cause of lamenting on dead body. And so far spirit soul is concerned, that is eternal. Even it appears to be dead, or with the death of this body, he does not die. So why one should be overwhelmed, "Oh, my father is dead, my such and such relative is dead," and crying? He's not dead. This knowledge one must have. Then he'll be cheerful in all cases and he'll be interested simply in Krsna consciousness. There is nothing to be lamented for the body, either alive or dead. That is being instructed by Krsna in this chapter. Go on.

Devotee: "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings. Nor in the future shall any of us cease to be [Bg. 2.12]." Purport: "In the Vedas, in the Katha Upanisad, as well as in the Svetasvatara Upanisad, it is said that..."

Prabhupada: (correcting pronunciation) Svetasvatara. There are many Upanisads, they are called Vedas. Upanisads are the headlines of the Vedas. Just like in a chapter there is a headline, similarly these Upanisads are the headlines of the Vedas. There are 108 Upanisads, principal. Out of that, nine Upanisads are very important. So out of those nine Upanisads, Svetasvatara Upanisad, Taittireya Upanisad, Aitareya Upanisad, Isopanisad, Isa Upanisad, Mundaka Upanisad, Mandukya Upanisad, Kathopanisad, these Upanisads are very important. And whenever there is argument on some point, one has to give reference from these Upanisads. If one can give reference from the Upanisads, then his argument is very strong. Sabda-pramana. Pramana means evidence. Evidence... If you want to gain in your case... Just like you have to give very nice evidence in a court, similarly, according to Vedic culture, the evidence is pramana. Pramana means evidence. Sabda-pramana. There are three kinds of evidences accepted by the learned scholars in Vedic culture. One evidence is pratyaksa. Pratyaksa means direct perception. Just like I am seeing you, you are seeing me. I am present, you are present. This is direct perception. And there is another evidence which is called anumana. Suppose in that room, and I am coming just now, I do not know whether any person there is or not. But there is some sound, I can imagine, "Oh, there is somebody." This is called anumana. In logic it is called hypothesis. That is also evidence. If by my bona fide suggestions I can give evidence, that is also accepted. So direct evidence, and, what is called, hypothesis or suggestion evidence. But the strong evidence is sabda-pramana. Sabda, sabda-brahman. That means Vedas. If one can give evidence from the quotation of the Vedas, then it has to be accepted. Nobody can deny the Vedic evidence. That is the system. How it is so? Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given very nice example. That is in the Vedas. Just like we keep conchshell in the Deities' room. Conchshell is considered very pure, transcendental; otherwise, how we can keep before Deity and you blow conchshell? You offer water with conchshell. How you can offer? But what is this conchshell? The conchshell is the bone of an animal. It is nothing but bone of an animal. But the Vedic injunction is that if you touch the bone of an animal, you'll have to take bath immediately. You become impure. Now one may say, "Oh, this is contradiction. In one place it is said that if you touch the bone of an animal, then you have to purify yourself by taking bath immediately, and here, the bone of an animal is in the Deities' room. So it is contradiction, is it not? If bone of an animal is impure, how you can place it in the Deities' room? And if bone of an animal is pure, then what is the meaning of becoming impure and take bath?" You'll find similar contradiction in the Vedic injunctions. But because it is said by the Vedas that bone of an animal is impure, you have to accept. But this bone of an animal, conchshell, is pure. Just like sometimes our students are perplexed when we say that onion is not to be taken, but onion is a vegetable. So sabda-pramana means the Vedic evidence should be taken in such a way that no argument. There is meaning; there is no contradiction. There is meaning. Just like several times I have told you that cow dung. Cow dung is, according to Vedic injunction, is pure. In India it is actually used as antiseptic. In villages especially, there is large quantity of cow dung, and they're, all over the house they have smeared to make the house antiseptic. And actually after smearing cow dung in your room, when it is dried, you'll find refreshed, everything antiseptic. It is practical experience. And one Dr. Ghosh, a great chemist, he examined cow dung, that why cow dung is so much important in the Vedic literature? He found that cow dung contains all the antiseptic properties. In Ayur-veda, cow dung dried and burned into ashes is used as toothpowder. It is very antiseptic toothpowder. Similarly, there are many things, many injunctions in the Vedas, which may apparently appear as contradiction, but they are not contradiction. They are on experience, on transcendental experience. Just like a father says to his child that "My dear child, you take this food. It is very nice." And the child takes it, believing the father, authority. The child knows that "My father..." He is confident that "My father will never give me anything which is poison." Therefore he accepts it blindly, without any reason, without any analysis of the food, whether it is pure or impure. You have to believe in such a way. You go to a hotel because it is licensed by the government. You have to believe when you take foodstuff there it is nice, it is pure, or it is antiseptic, or it is... But how do you know it? The authority. Because this hotel is authorized by the government, it has got license, therefore you believe. Similarly sabda-pramana means as soon as there is evidence in the Vedic literature, "This is this," you have to accept. That's all. Then your knowledge is perfect because you are accepting things from the perfect source. Similarly Krsna, Krsna is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Whatever He says, it is all right. Accept. Arjuna said at last, sarvam etad rtam manye [Bg. 10.14]. "My dear Krsna, whatever You say I accept it." That should be our principle. Why should we bother about researching when the evidence is there from the authority?

So to save time, to save trouble one has to accept the authority, actual authority. This is the Vedic process. And therefore Veda says, tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tad vijnanartham, in order to learn that transcendental science, one has to accept guru. Gurum eva, certainly, one must. Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore Krsna is accepted here as the spiritual master of Arjuna, and as the spiritual master or father or teacher has got right to chastise his son or disciple... A son is never dissatisfied when father chastises. That is the etiquette everywhere. Even the father is sometimes violent, the child or the son tolerates. A typical example is Prahlada Maharaja. Innocent child, Krsna consciousness child, but father torturing. He never says anything. "All right." Similarly Krsna, just after taking the position of the spiritual master, is designating Arjuna as a grand fool. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu also said that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool." Was Caitanya Mahaprabhu a fool? And can it be possible that anyone can become the spiritual master of Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Both things are impossible. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, even not accepting Him as incarnation of Krsna, if simply you accept Him as ordinary scholar or man, there was no comparison of His scholarship. But He said that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool." What is that meaning? That "A person, even in My position, always remains a fool before his spiritual master. That is good for him." Nobody should impose that "What do you know? I know better than you." This position is not, denied. And other point is, from the disciple's point of view, why he should remain always a fool before a person? Unless he's actually authorized, actually so great that he can teach me as a fool. One should select a spiritual master in that way and as soon as the spiritual master is selected, one should remain always a fool, although he may not be a fool, but the better position is like that. So Arjuna, instead of remaining on the same level as friend and friend, voluntarily accepting to remain a fool before Krsna. And Krsna is accepting that "You are a fool. You're talking just like a learned man, but you are a fool because you are lamenting on a matter which no learned man laments." That means "A fool laments," that "You are a fool. Therefore you are a fool." It is in a round about way... Just like, what is called in logic? Parenthesis? Or something like that, called. Yes. That if I say that "You look like that person who stole my watch," that means "You look like a thief." Similarly, (chuckles) Krsna, in a round about way, says that "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like learned man, but you are lamenting on a subject matter which no learned man laments." Go on.

Devotee: "In the Svetasvatara Upanisad it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the maintainer of innumerable living entities, in terms of their different situations according to individual work and reaction to work. That Supreme Personality of Godhead is also, by His plenary portions, alive in the heart of every living entity. Only saintly persons, who can see within and without the same Supreme Personality of Godhead, can actually attain to perfect peace eternal. The same Vedic truth enumerated herein is given to Arjuna and in that connection to all persons in the world who pose themselves as very learned but factually have very poor fund of knowledge. The Lord says clearly that He Himself, Arjuna, and all the kings who are assembled in the battlefield are eternally individual beings and that the Lord is eternally the maintainer of the individual living entities."

Prabhupada: What is the original verse? You read.

Devotee: "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings... [Bg. 2.12]"

Prabhupada: Now, "Never there was a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor these people." Now He analytically says, "I, you, and..." first person, second person, and third person. That is complete. "I, you, and others." So Krsna says, "Never there was a time when I, you, and all these persons who have assembled in this battlefield did not exist." That means "In the past, I, you, and all of them, they individually existed." Individually. The Mayavadi theory is that the ultimate spirit is impersonal. Then how Krsna can say that "Never there was a time when I, you, and all these persons never existed"? That means, "I existed as individual, you existed as individual, and all these persons who are before us, they existed as individuals. Never there was a time." Now, what is your answer, Dinadayala? Krsna says never we were mixed up. We are all individuals. And He says, "Never we shall remain... Never there will be time when we shall not exist." That means in the past we existed as individuals, in the present there is no doubt we are existing as individual, and in the future also, we shall continue to remain as individuals. Then when the impersonal conception comes at all? In the past, present, future, there are three times. Huh? In all the times we are individuals. Then when God becomes impersonal or I become impersonal or you become impersonal? Where is the chance? Krsna clearly says, "There was never time when I, you, and all these individual kings or soldiers... It was not that we did not exist in the past." So in the past we existed as individual, and in the present there is no doubt. We are existing as individual. You are my disciple, I am your spiritual master, but you have got your individuality, I have got my individuality. If you don't agree with me, you can leave me. That is your individuality. So if you don't like Krsna, you cannot become in Krsna consciousness, that is your individuality. So this individuality continues. Similarly Krsna, if He does not like you, He may refuse you Krsna consciousness. Not that because you are following all the rules and regulations, Krsna is obliged to accept you. No. If He thinks that "He's nonsense; I cannot accept him," He'll reject you.

So He has got individuality, you have got individuality, everyone has got individuality. Where is the question of impersonalism come? There is no possibility. And if you don't believe Krsna, you don't believe Vedas, apart from anything else, Krsna is accepted as the supreme authority, the Personality of Godhead. Then if we don't believe Him, then where is the possibility of advancing in knowledge? There is no possibility of it. So there is no question of individuality. This is the statement of authority. Now, apart from statement of authority, you have to apply your reason and arguments. Can you say anywhere there is agreement between two parties? No. You go, study. In the state, in the family, in the community, in the nation, there is no agreement. Even in the assembly, even in your country. Suppose there is Senate, everyone has got country's interest, but he's thinking in his individual way. One is thinking that "My country's welfare will be in this line." Otherwise, why there is competition during election of president. Everyone is saying that "America needs Nixon." And another person, he also says, "America needs me." So, but why two? If America you, and you are both... No. There is individuality. Mr. Nixon's opinion is something else. Mr. another candidate's opinion is something else. In the assembly, in the Senate, in the Congress, in the United Nations, everyone is fighting with his individual view. Otherwise why there are so many flags in the world? You cannot say anywhere impersonalism. Personality is predominating everywhere. Everywhere, the personality, individuality, is predominant. So we have to accept. We have to apply our reason, arguments, and accept the authority. Then the question is solved. Otherwise it is most difficult.

Devotee: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Individual Person, and Arjuna, the Lord's eternal associate, and all the kings assembled there are individual eternal persons. It is not that they did not exist as individuals in the past, and it is not that they will not remain as eternal persons. Their individuality existed in the past and their individuality will continue in the future without interruption. Therefore there is no cause for lamentation for any one of the individual living entities. The Mayavadi or impersonal theory that after liberation the individual soul, separate on account of maya or illusion, will merge into the impersonal Brahman without individual existence..."

Prabhupada: Now, the Mayavadi says that this individuality is maya. So their conception is that spirit, the whole spirit is a lump. Their theory is ghatakasa potakasa. Ghatakasa potakasa means... Just like sky. The sky is an expansion, impersonal expansion. So in a pot, in a waterpot, in a pitcher that is closed... Now, within the pitcher, there is also sky, a small sky. Now as soon as the pitcher is broken, the outside, the bigger sky, and the small sky within the pitcher mixes. That is Mayavada theory. But this analogy cannot be applied. Analogy means points of similarity. That is the law of analogy. The sky cannot be compared... The small sky within the pitcher cannot be compared with the living entity. It is material, matter. Sky is matter, and individual living entity is spirit. So how you can say? Just like a small ant, it is spirit soul. It has got its individuality. But a big dead stone, hill or mountain, it has no individuality. So matter has no individuality. Spirit has individuality. So if the points of similarity differ, then there is no analogy. That is the law of analogy. So you cannot analogize with matter and spirit. Therefore this analogy is fallacious. Ghatakasa potakasa. Then another evidence is in the Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says that mamaivamso jiva-bhuta. "This individual souls, they are My part and parcel." Jiva-loke sanatanah. And they are eternal. That means eternally they are part and parcel. Then when... How this Mayavada theory can be supported, that due to maya, being covered by maya, they are now appearing individual, separate, but when the covering of maya will be taken away, they will mix up just like the small sky within the pitcher and the big sky outside mixes? So this analogy is fallacious from logical point of view, as well as from authentic Vedic point of view. They are eternally fragments. There are many other evidences from Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita says that spirit cannot be fragmented. So if you say that by covering of maya the spirit has become fragment, that is not possible. It cannot be cut. Just like if you cut one big piece of paper into small fragments, it is possible because it is matter, but spiritually it is not possible. Spiritually, eternally, the fragments are fragments, and the Supreme is Supreme. Krsna is the Supreme, and we are fragmental parts. We are fragments eternally. These things are explained in Bhagavad-gita in different places very nicely. I request you all to keep one copy of this Bhagavad-gita, every one of you, and read it carefully. And there will be examination in the coming September. So... Of course, that is voluntary. But I request you to prepare for the examination next September. And one who will pass the examination will get the title Bhakti-sastri. Have you distributed that... Yes. Go on.

Devotee: "Nor is the theory that we only think of individuality in the conditioned state supported herein. Krsna clearly says that in the future also the individuality of the Lord and others as it is..."

Prabhupada: Krsna never says that after liberation these individual souls will mix up with the Supreme Soul. Krsna never says in the Bhagavad-gita.

Devotee: "Krsna clearly says that in the future also the individuality of the Lord and others, as it is confirmed in the Upanisads, will continue eternally. This statement of Krsna is authoritative."

Prabhupada: Yes, Upanisad says nityo nityanam. Now, nitya means eternal, and the Supreme Lord is the supreme eternal, and we individual souls, we are also many eternals. So He is the leader eternal. Eko bahunam... How He is leader? Eko bahunam vidadhati kaman. That one, singular number eternal, person, He is supplying all the needs of other eternals. These things are clearly said in the Vedas. And actually we are experiencing. Just like in Christian theology, the individual goes to the church and prays God, "Give us our daily bread." Why he's asking God? Of course, this atheist class of men are now teaching them, "Where is bread? You are going to church. You come to us; we shall supply you bread." So this Vedic thought is there also. The Vedas say, eko bahunam vidadhati kaman. That supreme one eternal, He's supplying, He's maintaining all other individual eternals. And Bible also enjoins that "You go, ask for your bread to God." So unless God is maintainer and supplier, why this injunction is there? Therefore He is the leader; He is the maintainer. And the Vedas clearly says this is the position. He is the Supreme. And by knowing this one can become in peace. That is the Vedic injunction. Go on.

Devotee: "This statement of Krsna is authoritative because Krsna cannot be subject to illusion. If individuality..."

Prabhupada: Yes. If the Mayavadi philosopher says that this statement of Krsna is in maya, that "He says that ‘Everyone was individual in the past.' No, in the past everyone was one, lump sum, homogeneous. By maya, we have become individual." If the Mayavadi says like that, then Krsna becomes one of the conditioned souls. He does not... He loses His authority. Because conditioned soul cannot give you the truth. I am conditioned soul. I cannot say something which is absolute. So Krsna is accepted as the Absolute. So if the Mayavadi theory is accepted, then Krsna's theory has to be rejected. If Krsna is rejected, then there is no need of reading Krsna's book, Bhagavad-gita. It is useless, waste of time. If He's a conditioned soul like us... Because we cannot take any instruction from a conditioned soul. So the spiritual master, even if you take that he is conditioned soul, but he does not speak anything from his own side. He speaks from Krsna's side. So unless... The Vedic principle is that unless one is not liberated from the material conditions, he cannot give us any perfect knowledge. The conditioned soul, however he may be academically advanced, educated, he cannot give us any perfect knowledge. Only one who is above the condition of these material laws, he can give us the perfect knowledge. Similarly Sankaracarya, he's also impersonalist, but he accepts Krsna the supreme authority. Sa bhagavan svayam krsna. "Krsna is that Supreme Personality of Godhead." The modern Mayavadi philosophers, they do not disclose this statement of Sankaracarya. To cheat people. But Sankaracarya's statement is there. We can give evidence. He accepts Krsna as the supreme authority. He has written so many nice poems praising or worshiping Krsna. And at the last time he says, bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha-mate. "You rascal fools. Oh, you are depending on grammar to understand. This is all nonsense." Bhaja govindam. "Just worship Govinda." Bhaja govindam bhaja... Three times he says. "Just worship Govinda." Bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says three times, harer nama harer nama harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Three times means giving too much stress. Just like we sometimes say, "You do this, do this, do this." That means no more denial. Finish all stress. So as soon as one thing is three times stressed, that means final. So Sankaracarya says, bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha-mate. Mudha, mudha I've several times explained. Mudha means rascal, ass. You are depending on your grammatical understanding, dukrn karane. Dukrn, these are grammatical affix and prefix, pratya, prakarana. So you are depending on this verbal root, that verbal root, and creating, interpreting your meaning in a different way. All this is nonsense. This dukrn karane, your grammatical jugglery of words, will not save you at the time of death. You rascal, you just worship Govinda, Govinda, Govinda. That is the instruction of Sankaracarya also. Because he was a devotee, he was a great devotee. But he pretended to be an atheist because he was to deal with the atheists. Unless he presents himself as an atheist, the atheist followers will not hear him. Therefore he presented Mayavada philosophy for the time being. The Mayavada philosophy cannot be accepted eternally. The eternal philosophy is Bhagavad-gita. That is the verdict. Go on.

Devotee: "If individuality is not a fact, then Krsna would not have stressed it so much even for the future."

Prabhupada: Yes. He says that there was no such time when we are not individual, and there will be no such time in the future when we shall not remain individual. And so far present is concerned, we are all individual. You know. So where is the possibility of losing individuality? Become imperson? No. There is no possibility. This voidism, impersonalism, they are artificial ways of negating the perplexing variegatedness of this material existence. That is the negative side only. That is not a positive side. A positive side is that, as Krsna says, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. "After giving up this material tabernacle, one comes to Me." Just like after leaving this room, you have to enter another room. You cannot say that "After leaving this room, I shall live in the sky." Similarly, after leaving this body, if you go to Krsna in the spiritual kingdom, your individuality will be there, but you'll have that spiritual body. When there is spiritual body there is no perplexities. Just like your body is different from the body of the aquatics. The aquatics, they have no disturbance in the water because their body is made like that. They can live there peacefully. You cannot live. Similarly, the fishes, if you take them out of the water, they cannot live. Similarly, because you are spirit soul, you cannot live peacefully in this material world. This is foreign. But as soon as you enter into the spiritual world, your life is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, real peace. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Krsna says, "After leaving this body, he does not come to this perplexities of material world." Mam eti, "He comes to Me." "Me" means His kingdom, His paraphernalia, His associates, everything. If some rich man or some king says, "All right, you come to me," that does not mean that he's impersonal. If a king says, "Come to..." means that he has got his palace, he has got his secretary, he has got his nice apartment, everything is there. How he can be imperson? But he says only, "Come to me." This "me" means everything. This "me" does not mean impersonal. And we get information from Brahma-samhita, laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambhrama-sevyamanam surabhir abhipalayantam [Bs. 5.29]. So He's not impersonal. He's raising cows, He's with hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune, His friends, His paraphernalia, His kingdom, His house, everything is there. So there is no question of impersonalism. Yes.

Devotee: "The Mayavadi may argue that the individuality spoken of by Krsna is not spiritual but material. Even accepting the argument that the individuality is material, how can one distinguish Krsna's individuality?"

Prabhupada: They also think of Krsna, therefore, as material. That is also condemned by Krsna. You'll find, avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. "Because I have appeared just like a human being, these rascals deride at Me that I am also one of them." Mudha. Mudha means rascal. Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Krsna. Krsna... It is the soul within the Krsna." That means he identifies Krsna as one of us. His body and His soul different. But Krsna is not... Krsna said, sambhavamy atma-mayaya [Bg. 4.6]. "I appear in My own, original stature. I do not change." We change. The individual soul... Prakrteh kriyamanani. He's conducted by, influenced by this prakrti, nature, but He's not conducted or influenced by the nature. He comes in His own influence, as He is, atma-mayaya. This is the distinction. Therefore He does not change body. When I come, I change bodies. This time I may have this body; next time I may have another body. That is material, and therefore I forget. Just like Krsna says in the Fourth Chapter that "Many times you and I came. You have forgotten." Because we change our material body therefore we forget. These things all will be explained. Go on.

Devotee: "Krsna affirms His individuality in the past and confirms His individuality in the future also. He has confirmed His individuality in many ways, and impersonal Brahman has been declared as subordinate to Him. Krsna has maintained spiritual individuality all along, and if He is accepted as an ordinary conditioned soul in individual consciousness, then His Bhagavad-gita has no value as authoritative scripture. A common man with all the defects of human frailty is unable to teach that which is worth hearing. Bhagavad-gita is above such literature. No mundane book compares with the Bhagavad-gita. When one accepts Krsna as an ordinary man, the Bhagavad-gita loses all importance. The Mayavadi argues that the plurality mentioned in this verse is conventional and that the plurality thus refers to the body. But previous to this verse such a bodily conception has already been condemned. After condemning the bodily conception of living entities, how was it possible for Krsna to place a conventional proposition on the body again? Therefore, the plurality is on spiritual grounds as is confirmed by great teachers like Sri Ramanuja. It is clearly mentioned in many places in the Bhagavad-gita that this spiritual plurality is understood by those who are devotees of the Lord. Those who are envious of Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead have no bona fide access to the great literature. The nondevotee's approach to the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita is something like a bee licking on a bottle of honey. One cannot have a taste of honey unless one can taste within the bottle. Similarly, the mysticism of the Bhagavad-gita can be understood only by devotees. No one else can taste it, as is stated in the Fourth Chapter of the book. Nor can the Gita be touched by persons who envy the very existence of the Lord. Therefore the Mayavadi explanation of the Gita is a most misleading presentation of the whole truth. Lord Caitanya has forbidden us to read commentaries made by the Mayavadis."

Prabhupada: Yes. Lord Caitanya has clearly said, mayavadi-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa. One meets disaster if he hears a Mayavadi philosopher to understand Vedic literature. That is His injunction. Mayavadi-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa. Sarva-nasa means disaster. It is actually disaster. A mayavadi-bhasya, Mayavadi commentary, they have simply tried, (that) the individual, tiny individual spiritual spark that "You are the Supreme." So he's just (like) Dr. Frog. You see. So puffed up, puffed up, when he... At one time, it will burst. Therefore it is disastrous. It is disastrous. (chuckling) Mayavadi-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa. So that's all. Finished? Yes. Oh, not yet?

Devotee: "Therefore the Mayavadi explanation of the Gita is a most misleading presentation of the whole truth. Lord Caitanya has forbidden us to read commentaries made by the Mayavadis and warns that one who takes to understanding of the Mayavadi philosophy loses all power to understand the real mystery of the Gita. If individuality refers to the empirical universe, then there is no need for teachings of the Lord. The plurality of the individual souls and of the Lord is an eternal fact, and it is confirmed by the Vedas as above mentioned."

Prabhupada: So you read very carefully Bhagavad-gita. You have to meet so many opposing elements; so you have to argue and convince them. Hm. (sankirtana party enters and offers obeisances) So, what is your report?

Tamala Krsna: Yesterday we sold 125 magazines and collected twenty dollars. Today, so far, Junior Dave(?), he has sold... How many have you sold today?

Junior Dave: Eighty-five.

Tamala Krsna: Eighty-five today so far.

Prabhupada: And there is night.

Tamala Krsna: Tonight, we will go out tonight.

Virabhadra(?): I have a question. In about the middle of your lecture you said that Krsna said that everybody always lived on. I lived on, you lived on, and everybody here lived on. Does that means us in this room lived on too? We always lived?

Prabhupada: What do you think?

Virabhadra: I don't know.

Prabhupada: Yes. "All" means including all men of this room also. You also.

Virabhadra: I lived on?

Prabhupada: Yes. You lived in the past, you are living at present, you will live in the future also. Is that all right?

Virabhadra: I understand that.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: I read somewhere in your writings that in order to understand the confidential affairs of Radha and Krsna one must serve the gopis who are servants of the gopis, and I assumed that you were a servant of the gopis. Is that correct? Or... How do I serve the servants of the gopis?

Prabhupada: Gopis, they are not conditioned souls. They are liberated spirits. So first of all you have to come out from this conditioned life. Then the question of serving gopi will come. Don't be at the present moment, very eager to serve gopi. Just try to get out of your conditional life. Then time will come when you'll be able to serve gopi. In this conditional stage we cannot serve anything. Krsna is performing it (everything?). But Krsna gives us opportunities to accept service in this arca-marga. Just like we keep the Deity of Krsna, offer prasada under regulation, under principle. So we have to make advance in this way, this chanting, hearing, and worshiping in the temple, arati, offering prasada. In this way, as we make advance, then automatically Krsna will reveal to you and you'll understand your position, how you have to... Gopis means who are always, constantly engaged in the service of the Lord. So that eternal relationship will be revealed. So we have to wait for that. Immediately we cannot imitate serving gopis. That's a good idea that you shall serve gopi, but it will take time. Not immediately. Immediately we have to follow the rules and regulations and routine work. Yes.

Visnujana: Do the liberated souls also seek after this Krsna consciousness? Those who have become free...

Prabhupada: They become perfect in Krsna consciousness. Liberated soul means... We are just trying to be Krsna conscious. We are not actually in full Krsna consciousness. We are... Just like a diseased person is trying to recover. So one who is recovered, there is no question of his healthy life. We are trying to be healthy, our present position. So we are trying to be Krsna conscious. So one who is liberated is nothing but Krsna conscious. You follow? Yes. Krsna consciousness is the perfection of life. So we are trying to reach that platform of perfection by regulative principle. But when we are actually on the platform, there is nothing but Krsna consciousness. That is the perfection of life. That is our actual, liberated stage. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our svarupa. Svarupa means actual constitutional position. And mukti, liberation, means to come to that real position. Just like healthy life means to come to the normal life from the diseased stage. That is healthy life and normal life. So Krsna consciousness is our normal consciousness. This normal consciousness is now polluted. We have got so many other consciousness. So this is an attempt to get out of all, I mean to say, infected consciousness, come to the real stage of pure Krsna consciousness. One question. No more. Next day. Yes?

Devotee: In Srimad-Bhagavatam you have said that... It's stated that Vyasadeva was afraid when Suta Gosvami was born that he would leave home because he was already a liberated soul.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: It says in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that Vyasadeva was afraid that Suta Gosvami when he was born would leave home because he was already a liberated soul.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: But he was attracted to Krsna's pastimes. So what...?

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the sign of liberated soul. Because to become attracted by Krsna, that is our normal condition. So he was liberated; therefore normally he became attracted with Krsna's pastimes. That is his normal life. One who is not attracted by Krsna's pastimes, he will be attracted by President Johnson's pastimes. (laughter) One has to be attracted. One has to be attracted by the dog's pastimes. Don't you see a person how he is serving the dog? The dog stands, passes urine, he also stands. You see? He's a human being, and he is waiting for the dog passing urine. How much he is attending the pastimes of the dog? So if you (are) not attracted by the pastimes of God, then you'll have to be attracted by the pastimes of the dog. There is no other alternative. Either maya or Krsna. The atheist, agnostic, they deny Krsna's pastimes; therefore they remain attracted by the pastimes of this material world. Yes?

Madhudvisa: Prabhupada, I think this is... Did Lord Caitanya take sannyasa from a Mayavadi sannyasi?

Prabhupada: Yes. That is a formality. That is not very important. Because Mayavadi  sannyasis, they are also Vedic sannyasis. They are not outsiders. But their interpretation of Veda is different. But they follow the Vedic rules. So this acceptance of sannyasa is following a principle of the Vedic rules. So the Mayavadi sannyasi may differ in his interpretation, but he's following the Vedic rules. So this acceptance of sannyasa is following the Vedic rules. So you can accept sannyasa even from Mayavadi. It doesn't matter. But you have to transcend the limits of Vedic rules. That is Krsna consciousness. That also Caitanya Mahaprabhu... Although He took sannyasa, He did not assume the sannyasa title. His sannyasa guru was Kesava Bharati. Naturally, He would have accepted the Bharati title. Sri Krsna Bharati, or something like that. But He remained Sri Krsna Caitanya. Caitanya is the name of the brahmacari under the Bharati sannyasi. One brahmacari... The brahmacaris, they are assistant or personal servitors of a sannyasi. That is the system. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu was... In the beginning, He was accepted... That is the Mayavadi system. One is accepted first of all as brahmacari. So that, His name was Caitanya. But even after His acceptance of sannyasa, He did not assume the title Bharati. That means actually He did not take sannyasa. That was simply formality. Because Mayavadi sannyasi thinks that he is God; so how He can assume that title? He was preaching, He was going to preach that we are servant of God; therefore He did not assume that title. And besides that, when Caitanya Mahaprabhu was going to Lord..., see Jagannatha Puri, His rod was taken away by Nityananda and it was broken and thrown away. So He, apparently He became very angry that "You have broken My rod, sannyasa rod. So I am not going with You." He separated. These statements are there in the Caitanya-caritamrta. So in one sense, Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not require to accept any sannyasa guru, but He accepted the formality that if one takes sannyasa, one has to take sannyasa from another sannyasi. That is the system. Just like if you want to get yourself married, you have to call for a priest. That does not mean that you have to agree with the priest's personal opinion. Do you follow? Yes. He may execute the rules and regulation of marriage ceremony, but that does not mean that one has to agree with the priest's opinion, personal opinion. This is the answer. But when you accept a spiritual master, that is not allowed. Unless you cent percent agree with the spiritual master's opinion or philosophy, there is no need of accepting a spiritual master. There is no need. Yes.

Jaya-gopala: How is Mayadevi in such a distasteful position? How did she acquire her position?

Prabhupada: (S)He's not acquired. She's given that position by Krsna. Because there are many individual souls who will defy Krsna; therefore Mayavadi (Mayadevi) is required to punish them. Mayadevi is required to punish them. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. "It is very difficult to surpass the stringent laws of My maya." So laws..., the maya is not independent. Just like police force. What is the value of police force unless government gives the power? Does it mean... Suppose a Mr. John, he comes as a policeman. He's Mr. John. What power he has got? But because government has given him power, he can arrest you. Similarly, Maya has no powers. Krsna has given her power to chastise these individual souls who are defying the authority of Krsna. They should be punished. It is Maya's thankless task, but Maya is obedient servant of Krsna. Mama maya. He says, "My maya." So Maya is not degraded. Maya is faithful servant of Krsna. She is faithfully serving. That is stated in the Brahma-samhita. You should read. So many nice books you have got. What is Maya doing? That is stated in the Brahma-samhita. Srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka chayeva yasya bhuvanani vibharti durga [Bs. 5.44]. Durga is Maya. Now what is the position of Maya? Maya is so strong, that srsti-sthiti-pralaya. She can perform creation, maintenance, and dissolution of this whole universe. She's so powerful. The material nature is so powerful. So srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhan a-saktir eka. Alone, she can do this as good as Krsna or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka chayeva [Bs. 5.44]. But she is just like shadow. Chayeva yasya. Chayeva yasya... She is working just like shadow. Just like here is shadow of my hand. If I shake my hand, the shadow also shakes. The Maya is acting like that. In the Bhagavad-gita also it is said, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. "Under My superintendence, prakrti, the nature, or Maya, is acting." Chayeva yasya bhuvanani vibharti durga. And next line, icchanurupam api yasya ca cestate sa. That Maya is acting under the direction of the Personality. And who is that personality? Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. "That personality is Govinda, the Supreme Person. I am offering my respectful obeisances." So Maya is acting under the direction of Krsna just like the shadow is moving under the movement of the original. So Maya's position is not degraded. Don't think like that. Therefore Vaisnava offers all respect to Maya because she is working under Krsna. She is Vaisnavi. She is also energy of Krsna. Therefore she is also Vaisnavi. In the Candi... (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.8-12 -- Los Angeles, November 27, 1968

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The Missing Self-Understanding

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Tamala Krsna: "Sanjaya said, Seeing Arjuna full of compassion and very sorrowful, his eyes brimming with tears, Madhusudana, Krsna, spoke the following words [Bg. 2.1]. The Supreme Personality said, ‘My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets but to infamy [Bg. 2.2].'

Prabhupada: Now, Arjuna was sympathetic with his brothers and relatives and he was practically crying, with tears in his eyes, and Krsna said that it is non-Aryan. It is not befitting for an Aryan. Just see. He was so compassionate, but still, it is not approved by Krsna. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: Purport. "The Sanskrit word Bhagavan is explained by the great authority, Parasara Muni, the father of Vyasadeva. The Supreme Personality who possesses all riches, entire strength, entire fame, entire beauty, entire knowledge, and entire renunciation is called Bhagavan. There are many persons who are very rich, very powerful, very beautiful, very famous, very learned, and very much detached, but no one can claim that he is possessor of all these opulences entirely. Such a claim is applicable to Krsna only, and as such He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No living entity, including Brahma, can possess such opulence. Neither Lord Siva nor even Narayana can possess such opulence as fully as Krsna. By analytical study of such possessions it is concluded in the Brahma-samhita by Lord Brahma himself that Lord Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nobody is equal to or above Him. He is the primeval Lord or Bhagavan known as Govinda, and He is the supreme cause of all causes. It is stated as follows: There are many personalities possessing the qualities of Bhagavan, but Krsna is Supreme over all of them because none can excel Him. He is the Supreme Person and His body is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. He is the primeval Lord Govinda and the cause of all causes. In the Bhagavatam also there is a list of many incarnations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is described therein as the original Personality from whom many, many incarnations and Personalities of Godhead expand. It is stated in this way: All the lists of the incarnations of Godhead submitted herewith are either plenary expansions or parts of the plenary expansions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. Therefore Krsna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the source of both Supersoul and the impersonal Brahman. In the presence of the Supreme Person, Arjuna's lamentation for his kinsmen is certainly unbecoming, and therefore Krsna expressed His surprise with the word kutas, wherefrom. Such unmanly sentiments were never expected from a person belonging to the civilized class of men known as Aryans. The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan. Such persons are captivated by the external features..."

Prabhupada: But at the present moment they claim that "We belong to the Aryan family," but they have not the qualification of an Aryan. The Aryan qualification is described there. Simply Arjuna was little flickering, he showed his little weakness, and he was at once condemned as non-Aryan. "Oh, you are just showing your symptom of a non-Aryan." You see. And by Krsna. So the Aryan word is not ordinary. To become Aryan means a perfect human being, as far as possible. That is Aryan civilization. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: "Such persons are captivated by the external features of the material world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans. Arjuna was trying to deviate from his prescribed duties, declining to fight, although he was a ksatriya or warrior. This act of cowardice is described as befitting the non-Aryans. Such deviation from duty does not help one in the progress of spiritual life, nor does it even give one the opportunity of becoming famous in this world. Lord Krsna did not approve of the so-called compassion of Arjuna for his kinsmen."

Prabhupada: So-called compassion. He was thinking that by showing that compassion he'll be, I mean to say, eulogized by Krsna. But Krsna condemned it. Yes. Just the opposite. In other words, Krsna is very strict also. That is the qualification of Krsna and His associates. Vajrad api kathora and kusumad api kamala. Softer than the flower and harder than the thunderbolt. Two sides. When Krsna is strict He's harder than the thunderbolt, and when He's soft, He's softer than the flower. These two examples are given. Vajrad api kathora, kusumad api kamala. So Krsna is not lenient to His friend or to His devotee. Because that leniency will not help him, will not help him. Sometimes He appears to be very hard for the devotee, but He's not hard. Just like father sometimes becomes very strict. That is good. That will be proved, how Krsna's hardness will prove his salvation. At the end Arjuna will admit, "By Your mercy, my illusion is now over." So this sort of stricture by..., from God on the devotee is sometimes misunderstood. Because we are always accustomed to accept what is immediately very pleasing, but sometimes we'll find that we are not getting which is immediately very pleasing, but we should not be disappointed. We shall stick to Krsna. That is Arjuna's position. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: "O son of Prtha, do not yield to this degrading impotence [Bg. 2.3]."

Prabhupada: Hm. Degrading impotence. He doesn't want to see (chuckling) His devotee a coward and impotent. So this so-called qualification, impotency and niggard, that is not qualification for devotee. He must be very, in every way, very expert and fit. Krsna wants to see. Yes. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: "It does not become you. Give up such petty weakness of heart and arise, O chastiser of the enemy."

Prabhupada: He's specially addressing, "chastiser of the enemy." Where there is no excuse, you must be chastiser. Not that "Because I have become Krsna conscious, I'll be very humble." You must be humble, but in need, if there is need, you shall be thunderbolt. That is Krsna instructing.

Tamala Krsna: "Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu, Krsna, how can I counterattack with arrows in battle personalities like Bhisma and Drona, who are worthy of my worship [Bg. 2.4]?"

Prabhupada: Of course, all explanation are not there. Here, these words, Krsna addressed Arjuna, "chastiser of enemies." And Arjuna addresses Krsna, "Madhusudana," or the killer of the demon Madhu. "Yes, You are addressing me as chastiser of enemy, but do You think my grandfather, my teacher, they are my enemies? You killed demon Madhu, therefore Your name is Madhusudana, but You are asking me to kill my grandfather and teacher." That is the hint. "It is all right that Your name is Madhusudana. You killed one demon whose name was Madhu, but You are asking me, Bhismasudana? Bhisma is my grandfather. And Dronasudana?" Sudana means killer. "So how can I be that?" That is the answer.

Tamala Krsna: "It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, then our spoils will be tainted with blood [Bg. 2.5]."

Prabhupada: This is another indication how superiors should be shown respect. Arjuna says, "Although they have become avaricious, still, they are my superior." Avaricious, why? "They have got full affection for me. My grandfather Bhisma has got full affection for me. And Dronacarya, I am his very dear student so he has also my very affection... good affection for me. But because Duryodhana has paid them, he has accepted their service. Paid them. So avaricious. Simply for money, in spite of so much affection and intimate relationship, they have accepted the service of Duryodhana, counting on money. So therefore they are avaricious. But in spite of their being avaricious, they are my respectful." This is respect. This is respect, that the respectful person who is my respectful, even there are some characteristics who does not command respect, still respect should be offered. This is a respectful offering. Yes. Sometimes it may be. The example is given. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find, api cet sudaracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. "Even a devotee is sometimes found not acting properly, but because he has got that unflinching faith and devotion upon Me," Krsna says, "therefore he is saint." Only for that one qualification -- he does not know except Krsna. So to such person, even some flaws are found in their character... Just like we have imposed some rules that illicit sex relationship and intoxication, meat-eating, so many things. So... Of course, intentionally one should not break these laws. But even sometimes we may find that there is some flaw in one's part... Suppose if I see somebody smoking, but he is doing Krsna consciousness very nicely. So we should not deride. We shall give him concession to reform. It does not mean that because he has accidentally smoked, smoking, that does not mean he has become immediately disqualified. As Arjuna is showing: "Although they have become avaricious, still, they are my superiors. Still. Still, they are my superiors." This is called unflinching faith. In spite of seeing my respectful superior abominable, not willingly, but by accident, still, I should not withdraw my respect. That is the... Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: "Nor do we know which is better, conquering them or being conquered by them. The sons of Dhrtarastra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield [Bg. 2.6]." Purport. "Arjuna became perplexed in this connection, not knowing whether he should execute the fighting with the risk of committing unnecessarily violence, although it is the duty of the ksatriyas, or whether he should not and prefer instead to live by begging, because if he did not conquer the enemy, begging would be the only means left for his living. There was no certainty of victory because either side might emerge victorious."

Prabhupada: These are his causes of perplexities, how he was thinking, that has been tried to be explained. Yes, go on.

Tamala Krsna: "Even if there were victory awaiting them, because their cause was justified, still if the sons of Dhrtarastra should die in battle, it would be very difficult to live in their absence. Under the circumstances that would be another kind of defeat. All these considerations by Arjuna definitely proved that he was not only a great devotee of the Lord but that he was also highly enlightened and had complete control over his mind and senses. His desire to live by begging although he was born in the royal household is another sign of detachment. He was fully in the quality of forbearance as all these qualities combined with his faith in the words of instruction of Sri Krsna, his spiritual master, give evidence. It is concluded that Arjuna was quite fit for liberation. Unless the senses are controlled, there is no chance of elevation to the platform of knowledge, and without knowledge and devotion there is no chance of liberation. Arjuna was competent in all these attributes over and above his enormous attributes in his material relationships."

Prabhupada: Go on. (coughs)

Tamala Krsna: "Now I am confused about..."

Prabhupada: Yes, what is there?

Tamala Krsna: "Now I am confused about duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me [Bg. 2.7]." Purport. "By nature's own way, the complete system of material activities is a source of perplexity for everyone. In every step there is perplexity, and it behooves one therefore to approach a bona fide spiritual master who can give one the proper guidance for executing the purpose of life. All Vedic literatures advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master to get free from the perplexities of life which happen without our desire. They appear like a forest fire which takes place without being set by anyone. Similarly, the world situation is such that perplexities of life automatically appear without our wanting such confusion. Nobody wants fire, and yet it takes place and we are perplexed. The Vedic wisdom therefore advises that in order to solve the perplexities of life and to understand the science of the solution one must approach a spiritual master who is in disciplic succession. A person with a bona fide spiritual master is supposed to know everything. One should not therefore remain in..."

Prabhupada: This is a translation of a Vedic version, acaryavan puruso veda. Acaryavan, one who has acarya as his guidance, he is supposed to know everything. Acaryavan puruso veda. That is given there.

Tamala Krsna: "One should not therefore remain in material perplexities but should approach such a teacher. This is the purport of this verse. Who is the man in material perplexities? It is he who does not understand the problems of life. In the Garga Upanisad this is described as follows. He is a miserly man who does not solve the problems of life as a human and who thus quits this world like the cats and dogs without understanding the science of self-realization. He is called a miserly man. This human form of life is the most valuable asset for the living entity who can utilize it for solving the problems of life. Therefore one who does not utilize this opportunity is a miser."

Prabhupada: As a miser does not properly use his asset. Suppose you have got one million dollars, you keep it only, you do not use it properly or you spoil it. Then you are called miser. But if you utilize it properly and gain out of it, then you are intelligent. Similarly, Garga Upanisad says, he makes distinction, two classes. One class of men he says krpana. Krpana means miser. And another class of men he says brahmana, brahmanas. So he classifies, etad viditvasmat ya praiti sa brahmanah. This self-realization process... We shall die. It is sure. Every one of us, we'll die. But we should not die like cats and dogs. That is the difference. We may die. We must die. Nobody can escape death, but before death we must know what is self and self-realization. They are brahmanas. Those who are trying to understand what he is, what is his relation with God and how he should live, they are called brahmanas. And those who are living like cats and dogs, simply eating, sleeping, mating and dying, so they are dying like cats and dogs. So death is inevitable. That is also advised by Prahlada Maharaja in his instruction to his class fellows. Kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha [SB 7.6.1]. "My dear friends, from this beginning of life... We are now five years old. From this life we should try to understand bhagavata-dharma." Bhagavata-dharma means to understand our relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is called bhagavata-dharma. Manusam adhruvam. Tad apy adhruvam. Although the life is temporary, but it is very suitable for self-realization. So therefore one should begin this process from childhood. Just like modern education system, if children are given some playthings, engineering... I've seen in your country especially. He's given railway line and so many things. He can understand how railway system is working, or engineering, so that from the very beginning of his life he's getting idea and he may catch up some line of activities. Similarly this Krsna conscious education also should be given from the very beginning of life. That is the mistake of the modern civilization. Everyone is becoming engineering, technologist, or medical man or so many. But the real problem of life is to understand the self. But there is no educational system throughout the whole world what is the self, what is his need, how it is constituted, how it is working, so many things. In Boston, there was a Massachusetts Technological...

Devotee: Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Prabhupada: You know that? Yes. So I explained there that "Here is a nice technological institute, but where is your, this technological department, to understand?" So the students very much appreciated it. Factually, this is the defect. We know... This will be the beginning of Bhagavad-gita, that there is something which minus, this body is useless. But nobody is trying to understand what is that something. There is no technological institute to understand what is that something. Is it not defective? And still, they are very much proud of advancement of education. The real thing is missing. You have got all departments for comforts of this body, for maintaining this body, but the thing which minus this body, the body is useless, what about that thing? That is Bhagavad-gita. That is Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita is teaching that technology. You should try to understand this Bhagavad-gita is not technology for the external body. Bhagavad-gita is the technology of the dehi which is within the body, which is moving the body, which is keeping the body fit. This body is fit very nice, very beautiful, very attractive. How long? So long the spirit soul is there. As soon as the spirit soul is off, immediately it begins to decompose. There may be a nice, beautiful young girl, everyone is hankering after her, but as soon as the spirit soul is gone, nobody will like to accept it. Immediately it becomes useless. (laughs) Huh? So nobody is very serious what is that thing? That is Bhagavad-gita. Yes.

Srimati: Is that what age is then, as the spirit soul is leaving the body, do you become older?

Prabhupada: No, spirit soul is not old. The body is changing, that is the process. That will be explained,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
 [Bg. 2.13]

Spirit soul is evergreen. The body is changing. That is to be understood. Body is changing. That everyone can understand. Just like in your childhood your body was different. Just like this child, a different body. And when that child will be young girl, that will be a different body. But the spirit soul is there in this body and that body. So this is the proof that spirit soul does not change, the body changed. This is the proof. I am thinking of my childhood. That means I am the same "I" which I was existing in my childhood, and I remember in my childhood I was doing this, I did that. But that childhood body is no longer. That is gone. Therefore it is conclusion that my body has changed, but I am the same. Is it not? This is simple truth. So this body will change, still I shall remain. I may enter into another body, that doesn't matter, but I shall remain. Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. As I am changing my body even in the present circumstances, similarly, the ultimate change does not mean I am dead. I enter into another... That also explained, vasamsi jirnani yatha, that I change. Just like when I was not sannyasi, I was dressing like any gentleman. Now I have changed my dress. That does not mean that I have died. No. I have changed my body, that's all. I have changed my dress. Go on. Not now. Yes. Krpanas, yes, you were reading there.

Tamala Krsna: "The krpanas, or miserly persons, waste their time in being overly affectionate for family, society, country, etc., in the material conception of life. One is often attached to family life, to wife and children and other members on the basis of 'skin disease.' The krpanas think that they are able to protect their family members from death, or the krpana thinks that his family or society can save him from death. Such family attachment can be found even in the lower animals, who also take care of children. Being intelligent, Arjuna could understand that his affection for family members and his wish to protect them from death were the causes of his perplexities. Although he could understand that his duty to fight was awaiting him, still on account of miserly weakness he could not discharge the duty. He is therefore asking Lord Krsna, the supreme spiritual master, to make a definite solution. He offers himself to Krsna as a disciple. He wants to stop friendly talks. Talks between a master and disciple are serious, and now Arjuna wants to talk very seriously before the recognized spiritual master. Krsna is therefore the original..."

Prabhupada: Here is a technique. The same Krsna and same Arjuna, they are talking as friends. Then what was the necessity of Arjuna accepting Krsna as spiritual master? The same Arjuna and same Krsna, they'll talk, but what is the necessity of accepting as spiritual master? That means after accepting spiritual master he'll not argue. He'll simply accept whatever He says. That is the technique. Friendly talks, equal level, He, Krsna was talking something and he was replying. So that argument has no end. But when he accepts Him as spiritual master, there is no more argument. One has to accept whatever He says. Therefore he's accepting as spiritual master. After this, Arjuna will never say, "This is wrong, this is, no," or "I don't agree." No. He'll accept. So acceptance of spiritual master means to accept anything, whatever he says. Therefore one has to select a spiritual master whom he can completely surrender. That is the technique. Veda-vakya. Just like in the Vedic injunction, nobody can deny. Similarly, spiritual master is also representative of Veda. Acaryavan puruso veda. So similarly, it is just like Vedic injunction. So spiritual master has also got the great duty. He has to instruct the disciple in such a way that he may not be misled, and that is not possible because a spiritual master is he who will simply speak from authoritative sources. He'll speak from Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavata, or what was spoken by Narada, Vyasa, that is his authority. He does not say, "In my opinion it is..." No. Therefore it is perfect, it is coming from the disciplic succession, and if one agrees to such instruction, then he's also perfectly advancing. It is not difficult to understand. So he's accepting. "Now I accept You as my spiritual master. You teach me." Is that the statement? Yes. What is that?

Tamala Krsna: "He offers himself to Krsna as a disciple. He wants to stop friendly talks. Krsna is therefore the original spiritual master in the science of the Bhagavad-gita, and Arjuna is the original disciple in understanding the Gita. How Arjuna understands the Bhagavad-gita is stated in the Gita itself, and yet foolish mundane scholars explain that one need not submit to Krsna as a person but to the unborn within Krsna. There is no difference between Krsna's within and without, and one who has no sense of this understanding is the greatest fool, the greatest pretender."

"I can find no means to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not even be able to destroy it if I win an unrivalled kingdom on the earth with sovereignty like the demigods in heaven [Bg. 2.8].

"Sanjaya said: Having spoken thus, Arjuna, chastiser of enemies, told Krsna, ‘Govinda, I shall not fight,' and fell silent [Bg. 2.9].

O descendant of Bharata, at that time Krsna, smiling in the midst of both the armies, spoke the following words to the grief-stricken Arjuna [Bg. 2.10]."

Prabhupada: So Arjuna was so serious, and Krsna was smiling. (laughs) "Just see the fool, what he is doing." Therefore there was necessity of instructing Bhagavad-gita. The fool has to be instructed. Yes. This is the... He was smiling. This is childish. He was very serious, "Oh." Just like sometimes a child is very serious, and the father is smiling. Yes. So now Bhagavad-gita will be spoken. He has accepted Krsna as spiritual master. Now He'll teach. So what does He teach? Next?

Tamala Krsna: "The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead [Bg. 2.11]."

Prabhupada: This is the first version of Krsna as teacher. What is that? Read it again?

Tamala Krsna: "Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead."

Prabhupada: Yes. Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11], that "You are lamenting for a thing which no learned man does. That means you are not learned, but you are talking just like learned man." What is that? "You are talking"?

Tamala Krsna: "While speaking learned words you are..."

Prabhupada: Yes. "You are speaking learned words, but your behavior shows that you are not learned because you are lamenting on a subject which no learned man laments." Politely He says that "You are not learned, but you are talking just like a learned man." That you will find. Dr. Frog, (laughs) speaking like a very great philosopher. Just like here, that Dr. Radhakrishnan, that says, "It is not to Krsna but within Krsna." That fool does not know that there is no within or without of Krsna. Rather, Krsna is within and without. That he does not know. And he's accepted as a very great learned man. Dr. Frog, or Dr. Radhakrishnan. You see? This is going on in the world. They are posing themself as very learned, but... This can be detected by devotees, who is learned and who is not learned. Others cannot detect. Others will be misled. The devotees, they have got such eyes to see that they can immediately discriminate who is a fool, who is learned. There is a story that one man was searching after the truth. So he met some person, saintly person. So he gave him one feather, that "You try to see within the feather who is a human being and who is not." So when he began to see within the feather, he saw, "There is no human being." Similarly,

ajnana-timirandhasya
jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena
tasmai sri-gurave namah

Guru or the spiritual master... [break] ...means pure devotee.

Virabhadra: In the asrama, and before that when you said that a brahmana is... Do you mean, when you say brahmana, do you mean... I mean are they... the devotees who are not pure but...

Prabhupada: Yes, they're also pure devotees because they're following my instruction. Just like a technician, he is expert, but somebody is assisting him. So the assistants, because they are following the instruction of the expert, therefore their work is also complete. So it is not necessarily that one has to become pure devotee immediately. Just like we are also following the instruction of our spiritual master. I don't claim that I am pure devotee or perfect, but my only qualification is that I am trying to follow the instruction of the perfect. Similarly... This is called disciplic succession. Just like here it is stated that Krsna is the original spiritual master and Arjuna is the original student. So Arjuna said that sarvam etad rtam manye yad vadasi kesava [Bg. 10.14]. "My dear Krsna, whatever You are saying, I accept in toto," in the Tenth Chapter.  Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Krsna, it is something else." He does not accept in that way. He says that "Whatever You are saying, I accept it. You are saying that You are the Supreme, I accept it. I don't say that You have got a separate thing within. That is Supreme, You are not Supreme, as person." This is impersonalist. They do not know that Krsna has no such... A conditioned soul... Just like we are, I am different from my soul. "I am" means my body, or I am soul, different from the body. So Krsna has no such differentiation. He does not know that. Because he's not following Krsna, the perfect spiritual master. He's following some rascal spiritual master. Therefore he has this mistake. But if we follow Arjuna and Krsna, then we get the perfect knowledge. We may not be cent percent perfect, but as far as possible, if we follow the instruction as it is, that much perfect. In this way one will get perfection.

So one has to follow. The same example, try to understand, that a perfect, expert technologist or technician or mechanic is working, and somebody is working under his instruction. So this somebody, because he is strictly working under the instruction of the expert, he's also expert. He may not be cent percent expert, but his work is expert. Is that clear? Because he is working under the expert. Do you follow? So if you follow pure devotee, then you are also pure devotee. It may not be one is cent percent pure. Because we are trying to raise ourself from the conditional life. But if we strictly follow the pure devotee, then we are also pure devotee. So far we do, that is pure. So pure devotee does not mean one has to become immediately cent percent pure. But if he sticks to the principle that "We'll follow a pure devotee," then his actions are... He is as good as a pure devotee. It is not I am explaining in my own way. It is the explanation of Bhagavata. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footprints of pure devotees. It is said that tarkah apratisthah. If you want to become pure by your arguments and logic, that is not possible. I may be defeated by another strong man who is stronger in argument than me, so this is not the way of becoming purified, tarka, simply arguing. Tarkah apratisthah smrtayo vibhinnah. Srutayah, scriptures. Suppose somebody sticks to the scriptures. So scriptures, there are different types of scripture. So they are vibhinna. Vibhinna means different types. So how we can become purified by, even by following the scriptures? Tarko 'pratisthah smrtayo vibhinna na casav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam. Muni means thoughtful, philosophers. If we follow a particular type of philosopher, that is also not perfect because I may be under the care of a philosopher, frog philosopher. So that is also not sure. Tarko 'pratisthah smrtayo vibhinna na casav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam, dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam.

Therefore to become pure or to understand the essence of purity is very confidential. It is not to be acquired by our own efforts, by argument or by being expert in scripture or by becoming a philosopher or a similar way. It is very confidential. Then how? Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You have to follow a pure devotee, acknowledged devotee. Similarly, in the Bhagavad-gita, if we follow Arjuna, then we understand Bhagavad-gita as it is. But if we don't follow Arjuna, if we follow somebody, Dr. Frog, or create our own interpretation, then we remain impure. So mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. We have to follow the footprints of mahajana, great soul. So here is directly you are meeting great soul, Arjuna. He is directly being taught Bhagavad-gita by the original teacher. Who can be greater authority than Arjuna? So as Arjuna accepts Bhagavad-gita, if you accept Bhagavad-gita in that way, then your study of Bhagavad-gita is perfect. It is very simple. Therefore I'm saying here that Krsna is the original teacher, and Arjuna is the original student. So you follow the original student, you understand Bhagavad-gita. Even Krsna is not present before you. He is present by His words. This is the way of following what is pure. Yes?

Tamala Krsna: Can Krsna give us the ability to someday remember every word that you are saying to us now? Because I myself, I forget so much. I want to hear just how you are talking and I can't.

Prabhupada: What is that? I don't follow.

Tamala Krsna: I want to be able to hear you saying exactly what you're saying now. I want to always be able to hear it, but I forget. My memory is very poor.

Prabhupada: Why? No. If we try... Memory may be poor. Everything depends on cultivation. If you cultivate something, your memory increases. Everyone becomes expert not in one day but by cultivation. Similarly, if you try to remember, then your memory will help you to remember. It is not difficult. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that we have to try to remember Krsna. He's so beautiful, His instructions are so nice. If we simply remember Krsna... That was the perfection approved by Lord Caitanya. I think I have narrated the story. When Lord Caitanya was traveling in South India in a big temple, Ranganatha temple, He went to see the Deity, and He saw one brahmana was reading Bhagavad-gita. And people were joking him, "Oh, Mr. brahmana, how you are reading Bhagavad-gita?" Because they were the neighbors, they knew that this brahmana was illiterate and he was studying Bhagavad-gita. So they were joking. But the brahmana did not care them. He was taking the book and in his own way he was reading. Caitanya Mahaprabhu saw this incident, He came to the brahmana. So He asked the brahmana, "My dear brahmana, what you are reading?" So he could understand "This persons is not joking with me; He is serious." So he explained, "My dear sir, I am reading Bhagavad-gita. Unfortunately, I am illiterate. I do not know even the alphabets." "Why you are reading Bhagavad-gita?" So he said that, "My spiritual master knows that I am illiterate, but still, he has asked me to read Bhagavad-gita. What can I do? Therefore I have taken this book. I am seeing simply. I do not know how to read." "Oh, that's all right. You cannot read. But I see that you are crying. How you are crying if you are not reading?" "Yes, I am crying. Of course, there is cause." "What is that?" "As soon as I take this Bhagavad-gita, I remember Krsna. Krsna is sitting as driver and Arjuna is hearing. I have heard the story. I know something of the instruction but cannot read. So as soon as I take this book, this picture comes before me and I simply think, ‘Oh, how Krsna is nice that He has become a charioteer of His devotee. He is so great. Still, He has accepted a menial service of His devotee.' This gives me so much pleasure that I cry." Caitanya Mahaprabhu embraced him, "Your Bhagavad-gita reading is perfect. You have taken the essence." So this is the thing. If you simply remember Krsna is teaching Arjuna and Arjuna is hearing, if you simply remember the picture, that is sufficient. Even if you think that you cannot read. Because after all we have to become Krsna conscious. We haven't got to become a learned man to argue with another learned man. If it is possible we can do that, but that does not make any difference if I cannot argue with others or if I cannot teach very nicely Bhagavad-gita to others. Simply if I remember this picture, that is perfection. Because we have to become Krsna conscious. We have to simply think of Krsna. You think in any way. That is your perfection. Smartavyah satatam visnuh. This is the injunction. You have to think of Visnu always. This is samadhi; this is meditation; this is yoga siddhi, perfection of yoga.

So one who has learned to think of Krsna always, he is already on the perfectional stage. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim [Narada-pancaratra]. If one has come to this stage, just to understand Krsna the great, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and he's surrendered soul, "Krsna, whatever You like You do. I am surrendered."... This is aradhana. Then he doesn't require to undergo any austerities or penance. His everything is finished. And naradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. And if he does not come to this stage, his so-called scholarship, learned argument, this or that -- all nonsense, finished. Useless. One has to come to this stage. Therefore Lord Caitanya embraced the brahmana, "Yes, your study of Bhagavad-gita is perfect." Because one has to come to this stage, thinking of Krsna always. So if one does not come to this stage, simply by academic education, he says "It should be like this. The interpretation should be like this," he's simply wasting time. Frog philosopher. One has to come to this stage. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim, naradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim [Narada-pancaratra]. So that is the perfection. Krsna and gopis. They were cowherds girl. Their father, mother, they were only ordinary village men, keeping cows. That's all. What was their education? They were not Vedantists. But they learned to love Krsna. That was their qualification. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu certifies, ramyad upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena va kalpita. "Oh, there is no better worship than that which was contemplated by the gopis." Because they did not know what is Krsna but they loved Krsna. That's all. They loved Krsna, that because Krsna was God or Krsna was something great? No. Their natural affection was for Krsna. They could not stay even for a moment without seeing Krsna. That was their qualification. This is Krsna consciousness.

Boy: How come a lotus flower is so great?

Prabhupada: He will explain, he will explain. So, one has to come to perfect Krsna consciousness some way or other. That is perfection. That is everything. If one always thinks of Krsna, then he is perfect. We should not forget. We have presented so many formulas. Why? Not the formulas are important, but the formulas will help me to remember Krsna always. Just like you are going to sell our magazines. So this magazine selling or taking some contribution is not our business. Our business is that we are spreading Krsna consciousness, people are hearing something about Krsna. And because we are helping, we are also hearing. We are also benefiting. When you speak somebody about Krsna, then I hear also Krsna. Sravanam kirtanam. The first preliminary steps, hearing and chanting, is going on. So in this way we shall take all opportunities so that twenty-four hours, whether awakened or sleeping, we shall always think of Krsna. That is perfection. This chanting means always remembering Krsna -- Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Rama, Hare Rama. Cooking, I am cooking for Krsna, I am typing for Krsna, I am going to preach for Krsna, I'm distributing Back to Godhead for Krsna. In this way (laughs) always remember Krsna, that's all. That will make you perfect. Yes?

Devotee: Did Krsna have children by the gopis?

Prabhupada: No. Krsna's love was not this love, sex love. That was different thing. Yes?

Visnujana: When we're engaged in spreading Krsna consciousness by this singing or selling Back to Godheads or speaking with people, if through our senses, like seeing or hearing or touching and smelling, our mind gets distracted even while we're engaged in selling Back to Godhead, then how can we always, how can we always return to that point of remembering even though our senses are being dragged by billboard signs and so many...

Prabhupada: No, suppose you are selling Back to Godhead. Does it not remind you (of) Krsna? Does it not remind you about Krsna? What for you are selling Back to Godhead? You could sell another popular magazine which could sell very nicely, quickly, thousands of copies. Why you have taken this Back to Godhead? For Krsna. You are not for business, you are not ordinary, I mean to say, newspaper seller. Why you have taken Back to Godhead? Your motive is that people may know about Krsna. That is your motive. If magazine selling is your business, you can take any other sense gratificatory magazine. There are so many. And you can sell, you can make some profit. So we have to mold our life in such a way that we shall always remember Krsna. Therefore remembering Krsna is my primary business. And we have to act in such a way that we may not forget Krsna. That should be the principle. That is the secret. Therefore it is equally good for anyone because we can engage anyone in the business of Krsna. If somebody has no, I mean to say, knowledge, he can simply sweep over the floor of Krsna's temple. That will make him remembering Krsna, that "I am cleansing the floor of Krsna's temple." He's as good as the editor of Back to Godhead. Yes?

Devotee: How does the devotee go about practicing this Krsna consciousness when he's asleep?

Prabhupada: Yes, Sleep means your gross senses are stopped, but your mind works. Therefore you dream. So if you practice your mind to be engaged in Krsna consciousness, in dream also you'll see that you are preparing prasadam. "I am going to sell Back to Godhead." (chuckles) That's all. Sometimes some nights when I feel hungry, I dream that I'm eating Krsna prasadam very sumptuous. (laughing)

Devotee: Oh, haribol! (laughing)

Prabhupada: (laughs) Somebody is supplying me nice parata and I am eating. (laughs) But, being hungry, oh, my hunger is not satisfied. I'm eating, eating, till the dream is end. So if you practice, this is the technique. We have to practice in this way, that when all functions of this body will be stopped at the time of death, oh, we shall remember some way or other, Krsna. Then successful. Immediately successful. That is the technique. Therefore Kulasekhara is praying,

krsna tvadiya-pada-pankaja-panjarantam
adyaiva visatu me manasa-raja-hamsah
prana-prayana-samaye kapha-vata-pittaih
kanthavarodhana-vidhau smaranam kutas te

The devotee, a great devotee, King Kulasekhara. He has a nice book, Mukunda-mala-stotra. I began translating, commenting, this line in Vrndavana. So the first verse is he's comparing his mind with the swan. I think you have seen, Jayananda, when we were walking in Seattle in that park, in a lake the swan were diving near the lotus. You have seen? Yes. That is the practice. The swan takes pleasure where there is, I mean to say, what is called, lotus or lily, lilies. There's a stem. They dive and they entangle their long neck with the... That is their sporting. So Krsna's lotus feet, we call, lotus feet. So he says that "My mind may be entangled with the stem of Your lotus feet just like the swan. Immediately. I can do that now because I am in healthy state. Otherwise at the time of death, kapha-vata-pittaih, when mucus, bile, everything will be disordered, and my throat will be choked up, I will not be able to speak or chant. So why shall I wait for that time? Now I am fit. Let my mind be absorbed with Your thought and let me die." That is the technique. That our mind should be always absorbed in Krsna thought. So if by Krsna's grace, at the time of that last moment of quitting this body, when every function of the body will be disordered we can remember Krsna, then our life is successful. So we have to practice this. This, everything, whatever we are doing, it is practicing for the last moment. There is a Bengali proverb, bhajana kara sadhana kara matte janle haya.(?) How you are advancing in Krsna consciousness, that will be tested at the time of your death. The examination will be at that time. So if that technique becomes perfect, then our life is perfect. At once you are transferred to the Krsnaloka. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. "My dear Kaunteya, My dear Arjuna, that person, after quitting this body, he never comes back again to this nonsense material world, but he comes to Me." That is perfection. People have no knowledge who is transferred, where it is transferred, what is God, what is... No, nothing of the sort. Simply eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, and die like cats and dogs. That's all.

So we have tried to explain all these things in this Bhapgavad-gita As It Is. Try to read it repeatedly and you get all information, all techniques. This life should not be misused. That should be the first point. It should be very properly utilized in Krsna consciousness. Consciousness is there. Just absorb it in Krsna. Consciousness must be absorbed in some thought. Make it Krsna thought always. Make your program in such a way that you cannot go out of Krsna thought. Just like businessmen, they're always thinking, "What profit is there? What is the bank balance? And how the business is going? How the profit is going?" They're always thinking of that. Somebody is thinking something. Everyone. If one is after some woman, he's thinking of that woman always. If one is after some man, he's also thinking of that man. So thinking must be there, some subject matter of thinking. That we have to change to Krsna thinking some way or other. Transferring the thinking or consciousness to Krsna. You do it in whatever way you like, but there are some standard way. If you follow, that will be easier. People have some idea of God, they accept. But simply having some idea of God one cannot think. But here is a solid God, Krsna, with two hands playing flute, and one can think of Him. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti yam syamasundaram [Bs. 5.38]. They're thinking of whom? Syamasundara. Syama, blackish, but very beautiful. Syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam. With transcendental qualities. Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami. "I am worshiping that Govinda." So we have to mold our life. This is Krsna consciousness. Chant Hare Krsna. So you have got another good assistant?

Tamala Krsna: Expert.

Prabhupada: Yes. Now take some contribution and purchase one temple. (laughs) The sankirtana's party's responsibility is increasing. Just find out some person, and give us a temple.

Tamala Krsna: I found someone who will give us a big garage, but it's not a temple. A nice man.

Prabhupada: Never mind garage. Let him begin. We shall sit down there in garage. He's giving for good or...

Tamala Krsna: No. He is volunteering. He's a businessman who has started to chant.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Tamala Krsna: He's very nice.

Prabhupada: So let him give us and we shall make our temple there in the garage. Where it is?

Tamala Krsna: He says it's nearby here. He said fifty people can come in.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's all right.

Tamala Krsna: He said we should hold kirtana there now.

Prabhupada: And immediately.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, he's suggested it.

Prabhupada: So do it immediately. It is Krsna's grace. Never mind garage. We shall turn hell into heaven. (laughter)

narayana-parah sarve
na kutascana bibhyati
svargapavarga-narakesv
api tulyartha-darsinah
 [SB 6.17.28]

Svargapavarga, heaven or the Brahman effulgence, or hell, all these are equal to a devotee. A devotee does not make any distinction because he has always within his heart Krsna. So either he goes to hell or heaven, it doesn't matter. You see? If Krsna goes with him then it is no longer hell. (laughs) Just like isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. The Lord as Supersoul is in everyone's heart, so He's in the heart of the hog or He is in the heart of the worm in the stool. Does it mean Krsna is living in the stool? No. Wherever He lives, He lives in Vrndavana. That is His inconceivable potency. He can live everywhere, but He does not live there. He lives in Vrndavana. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhutah [Bs. 5.37]. So it doesn't matter whether it is garage or anything. If somebody is voluntarily offering that, immediately accept that. We shall sit down there, and fifty people can sit. It is sufficient. We can decorate it nicely. Immediately. Near this place?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, he says it's nearby here.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Tamala Krsna: He's a very nice man. He started to chant when he came to our other temple, and every day he chants while he goes to work...

Prabhupada: Very good.

Tamala Krsna: ...when he's walking the street.

Prabhupada: So he is devotee.

Tamala Krsna: He said he was smoking two and a half packs of cigarettes. Now he only smokes three or four. Soon he will stop.

Prabhupada: (laughs) You see? How practical. Yes. This is practical. One of my Godbrothers, he narrated his life history, that he was distilling wine for drinking. And he said that all kinds of intoxicants he has passed. He is graduate of all kinds of intoxication. (laughs) But when he came to Guru Maharaja, he left everything. He has not even smoking a bidi, cigarette. Papi tapi yata chilo, hari-name uddharilo, tara saksi jagai madhai. The witness is Jagai and Madhai. So you accept it.

Tamala Krsna: He'll have to call me. He said he would call tomorrow.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Dayananda: Well, did he donate it?

Tamala Krsna: No. We'll have a phone by tomorrow.

Dayananda: You said he came to the other temple.

Tamala Krsna: Remember the Indian people came that night? I'll tell you who he is.

Dayananda: With the twelve-year-old boy?

Tamala Krsna: No. He came with his wife that night.

Prabhupada: He's Indian?

Tamala Krsna: No. No. There was another Indian people there that night, but he was separately with his wife. We had a kirtana. That was that very rich man, Indian man who came, and then there was another couple there.

Prabhupada: So he's also rich man?

Tamala Krsna: I don't think so. But he has a wife and he says many things have been changing since he chanted. He says he doesn't know whether he should attribute it to the chant, but he's going to keep chanting. And he looks very, ah, he looks much happier.

Prabhupada: That's all right. So, chant. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.1-10 and Talk -- Los Angeles, November 25, 1968

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