From External Illusion

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.15.36
Los Angeles, December 14, 1973

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


Pradyumna: Translation: "When the Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna, left this earthly planet in His self-same form, from that very day Kali, who had appeared partially before, become fully manifest to create inauspicious conditions for those who are endowed with a poor fund of knowledge."

Prabhupada: Here is one word, jahau. Jahau sva-tanva sravaniya-sat-kathah. So when Krsna left, He left with His, the self-same body. In the Bhagavad-gita Krsna says, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, tadatmanam srjamy aham [Bg. 4.7]. In another place Krsna says, atma-mayaya. Atma-mayaya. Maya means potency, energy. So there are three potencies... There are many potencies. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. God has unlimited potencies, but learned scholars, saintly persons, they have not rejected potencies, because they cannot be. There are certain philosophers, they are of opinion that God has no potency. But that is not fact. From Vedic information we see potency. What is that? How to understand the potency? The potency, you can understand. Just like from the fire you have got two potencies: heat and light. Nobody can deny it. Similarly, as fire is placed in one place but it expands its potencies heat and light... That is within our experience. It is not very difficult. Similarly, the sun also... Everyone can see that the sun planet is a big planet, the biggest planet. Or star, as somebody says. Whatever it may be, it is lying in one corner of the sky. But it expands its potency throughout the universe. The sunshine is distributed all over the sky, all over the planetary system. And similarly, heat also. We are feeling 99,000,000 miles away... Is that ninety-nine miles? What is that? Scientists say?

Devotees: Ninety-three.

Prabhupada: Ninety-three million miles away from us; still, we are feeling scorching heat, 120 degree, 135 degree. In Middle East the temperature the temperature is 135 degrees. It is impossible to stay on the surface of the globe. One goes down to the earth. So potency is there. If in material thing like the sun -- sun is a material thing; it has got so much potency -- so how much potencies the Supreme Personality of Godhead got? That is called inconceivable potency. Acintya, beyond your perception. He has got that potency.

So that is the statement of Vedas.

na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate
na tat-samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate
parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate
svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca

The is description of the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Person. Because it is said, tasya. Tasya means He's a person. So what kind of person? Like me? Whole day working, for money? No. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vid... He has nothing to do. See here. Krsna has nothing to do. Simply He is enjoying, playing on flute and enjoying with Radharani. That's all. He hasn't got to go to office, to the factory. (laughter) He hasn't got. He is simply to enjoy. Anandamayo 'bhyasat. And we also take, imitate that enjoyment. We also want to mix, young boys and girls, dance together. Because we imitate Krsna. The same thing is there. With gopis Krsna is dancing. Here also we are dancing, in nightclub, and this club, that club. But that will not give you satisfaction, because it is imitation. If you want real dancing, come to Krsna. That is wanted.

That is Krsna conscious movement, that we are trying to take the misled people from illusion to the reality. The Mayavadi philosophers, they see that there is no more any pleasure in this dancing. "Make it zero. Forget it." No. We don't say that. We say that this dancing is there in the original conception in the Absolute Truth. That is... The Vedanta-sutra says, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Whatever you are experiencing, wherefrom it has come? It has come from the Absolute. That is the Absolute idea. But here, in the relative world, it is pervertedly reflected, and because it is not reality, therefore you are confused, baffled. So our proposition is come to the reality. That is Krsna consciousness. The same dancing... Just like here is a picture, Krsna is dancing with the gopis. We also like, anybody of us here. Even in old age they are dancing with young girls. In Paris there is club. All going to die, such old men, they are coming in the club, paying fifty dollars as entrance fee; then they have to pay for young girls and wine. But still, they come. They cannot actually enjoy. Vayasi gate kim yuvati nari:(?) "When one is old man, what is the use of mixing with young girls?" Yes. But they like it. They like it. They pay for it. But they do not enjoy, Because if they have enjoyed, they would have been satisfied, but they are not satisfied. Frustrated.

So this is the position. This is the position. Just like the heat and light. If... You are feeling the heat in the sunshine, but that does not mean the sun is there. You cannot say that. Sun is there and not there. This is called simultaneously inconceivable presence of God everywhere. He is present everywhere. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita.

maya tatam idam sarvam
jagad avyakta-murtina
mat-sthani sarva-bhutani
na caham tesv avasthitah

Maya tatam idam sarvam. Krsna says, "By My impersonal feature, I am spread everywhere, everywhere." Everywhere is Krsna. Mat-sthani sarva-bhutani: "Everything is resting on Me." This is the fact. Just like in this material world everything resting on the sunshine. That is scientific. Is is not scientist, the sunshine? The planets, they are rotating on account of this heat and sunshine. It is not a theory?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. So now what do we mean by "everything"? Just like this planet. Everything with this planet -- the trees, the rivers, the mountains, the cities, the cars -- everything within this planet, that is an unit. So this is one planet. And there are millions and millions, trillions of planets. But how they are existing? Existing on the sunshine. So wherefrom the sunshine comes? The sunshine comes from God, or the sun comes from God. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Everything is born, everything is emanating form the Absolute. Therefore, indirectly, everything is depending on Krsna's potency. Mat-sthani sarva-bhutani: "Everything is resting on My potency." Na caham tesv avasthitah: "But I am not there." This is the acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. This is our philosophy.

So our point is that Krsna, or God, is there, and He is working through His potencies. Just like a big man, he is sitting on his parlor. He hasn't got to go. Just like we have seen Mr. Birla in... Those who are with me, they have seen. He is sitting in his home, but he has got many potencies. He has got secretaries, clerks, and this and that, so many things. So they are doing all work. He hasn't got to work. A big man means he hasn't got to work personally. He has got so many assistants. Similarly, Krsna, He is the Supreme. He hasn't got to work Himself. He hasn't got to work. Vrndavanam parityajya padam ekam na gacchati. He is always engaged in His playing flute and dancing with the gopis. That's all. Pleasure. Anandamayo 'bhyasat. That is pleasure. So His potencies are working. What kind of potency? That is described. I have given the example. Just like the sun is there and the sunshine is there, and the sunshine is working everything. By the sunshine, the trees are coming out, the leaves are coming out. They are dropping when there is no sunshine. Everything is depending on sunshine. That is explained in the Vedic literatures:

eka-desa-sthitasyagner
jyotsna vistarini yatha
parasya brahmanah saktis
tathedam akhilam jagat

Parasya brahmanah saktih. Whatever you are seeing in this cosmic manifestation, they are simply  demonstration of the potency of the Lord. Parasya brahmanah saktih.

So we are... We take our birth and we accept our death not independently. We are under the another potency. We are also one potency. The potency... There are... Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. Those potencies have been divided into three. Multi, but roughly, they have been divided into three. One is called internal potency, one is called the external potency, and one is called the marginal potency. So the external potency means this material world. The whole material universe -- so many universes, so many planets, stars, skies, and everything -- these are the demonstration of the external potency. And similarly, there is the spiritual world. Spiritual world. That we cannot see. That is not within our experience. But we get it from the sastra. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, paras tasmat tu bhavah anyah [Bg. 8.20]. Krsna says, "There is another nature." Paras tasmat. "This material nature, beyond that there is another nature." Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah [Bg. 8.20]. That is eternal. This material nature is not eternal. Just like your body, my body, it is not eternal, similarly, this gigantic body of universe, that is also not eternal. It has a date of creation, and it has a date for dissolution. That is the nature. Therefore it is said that "That material nature is sanatana. That is never created; neither it is annihilated."

So we, marginal... Marginal means actually we belong to the spiritual nature. Because we are spirit soul, but we have come in contact with this material nature, some way or other. So therefore we are seeing our position incompatible. We cannot adjust here. Therefore we are getting one type of body and enjoying or suffering another type of body, another type of body, another type of body. This is going on. Therefore we are called marginal. If we like, we can transfer ourself to the spiritual world and remain eternally, because we are of the spiritual nature. That is described in the Bhagavad-gita: na jayate na mriyate va kadacin nityah sasvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. This is the description of the soul. The soul is never born, na jayate. Na mriyate, neither he dies. Na jayate na mriyate va. Kadacit, at any time. Not that sometimes we wish to live or sometimes we wish to die. No. Everlastingly, eternally, we never take our birth, never we die. Then what is this death? This death is of the material body, not of the soul. Therefore it is said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20], more distinctly, that "We don't think that the soul is dead after the annihilation of this body."

So now the conclusion is that because we are marginal, in between the spiritual nature and the material nature, although we are spiritual, although our real nature is na jayate na mriyate, we never take birth, never die, but on account of our contact with this material nature, we are getting this material body and the body is changing. Tatha dehantara-praptih. Body is changing. And that we have taken as our nature, birth and death. That is not our nature. We are spirit soul. We are put into marginal because... Just like the margin is explained: tatastha. That is... We have translated into "marginal." Just like we go on the Pacific beach. Some day we find the water is covering the beach, and some day we see it is open. There is no water. So that is called marginal. Marginal. Sometimes it is covered by water; sometimes there is no water. Similarly, we, being marginal potency, we are sometimes influenced by this material nature, not always. Because at the present moment for sometimes we are under the material nature, now, if we try, then we can get out of this covering of material nature and come to the spiritual nature. That is Krsna consciousness movement. Krsna consciousness movement means don't remain in the marginal position. Come in the land so there will be no disturbance by the water. This is the position. If you remain on the marginal position, then sometimes you will be covered by the water and sometimes it will be dry. But if you little come forward this side, land side, the ocean has no power to touch you.

But Krsna is not like that, and that is described here. Although Krsna left this world, that does not mean that He left this world as we leave. Our leaving this world means we are leaving this material world and accepting another body. Therefore, at the present moment we are not in our own body. Our body is changing. Now this American body, and next birth may be Russian body. This is going on. You are fighting against the Russians, Americans, but he may get the Russian body next life. Therefore as American, he fought the whole life with the Russian, and he is going to become a Russian. Sada tad-bhava-bhavitah [Bg. 8.6]. This is the law of nature. This is the law of nature. Then again fights with American as soon as he gets the Russian body. Then he becomes again American. This is going on. Bhutva bhutva praliyate. Sometime Russian, sometime American, go on fighting. That's all. So this is called maya. (laughter) This is maya. Everyone is doing that. Everyone is doing that. Therefore Lord Caitanya said, ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. The living entities are loitering like this, sometimes that body, sometimes this way, sometimes that way. He is simply loitering. He is not getting where to take shelter. Where permanent life, permanent happiness, he does not know. He does not know. He does not know. Simply changing. In the material world also, they are simply changing some form of government, electing one rascal, again rejecting, another rascal, another rascal. Because they are all rascals, they have no other alternative than to elect more rascal. But they are thinking that "By rejecting this rascal, we shall be happy." He does not know how to elect. He does not know how to elect. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah. They are themselves blind, and they are accepting a leader who is also blind. So what will be the profit? If you are led by... You are blind, and if you are led by another blind man, then what will be the profit? Both of you will fall down in the ditch. That is going on.

Therefore, if you want real happiness, you must take the leadership of a man who has got eyes to see. Then it will be all right. So whose eyes are open? And that is in the Vedic literature said,

ajnana-timirandhasya
jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena
tasmai sri-gurave namah

It is the business of the guru... Because everyone is blind or in darkness, cannot see, so it is the guru's business to open his eyes, or to help him to see things as they are. That is guru's business. Ajnana-timirandhasya. Everyone is covered by the darkness of ignorance. So how darkness can be moved? If there is light. Immediately, if you make the switch off of electricity, this room will be dark. And again you make the switch on, there will be light. Just like at night, we cannot see. Everything is dark because the light, sun, is not there. In the morning, as soon as the sun is there, again everything you can see. So things are there. Because we are in the darkness of ignorance, we cannot see them properly. I am there, you are there, God is there, everything is there. Simply we have to get the light or the proper situation to see things as they are. That is wanted.

So Vedic literature therefore advises that if you want... First of all Vedas advises, "Don't keep yourself in the darkness." Tamasi ma jyotir gama: "Don't keep yourself in the darkness." This is human life. In the human life... In the animal life you kept yourself in darkness because there was no possibility of come to the light. If I invite all the dogs and animals of Los Angeles city to come here to hear about Bhagavad-gita, it is not possible, because they are animals. But if I appeal to the human being, because he is human being, he may be interested. He should be interested, but the time is so bad that nobody is interested, but still, he may be interested. But that is not possible for the animals, cats and dogs. So in the human form of life, there is necessity of coming to the light and make a solution of the problems of life. Therefore Krsna comes. That is the statement of Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita: yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, tadatmanam srjamy aham, atma-mayaya [Bg. 4.7].

So Krsna comes... He does not come like us. We are under the control of the material nature, but Krsna is not under the control of material nature. That is to be understood. Therefore here it is said that jahau sva-tanva. Sva means "own," and tanva, tanu, tanu means "this body." We have got distinction, "I am the soul, but my this body is material." This distinction we have got because we are conditioned soul. Actually, I am not this body. I am soul. But I have become conditioned by this material body. And in case of Krsna, He is not conditioned by this material body. Therefore it is said, sva-tanva: "by His own original, spiritual body." This is the distinction you must understand. One scholar has described... Because he does not know Krsna and still writing comments on Bhagavad-gita, when Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Just think of Myself, just become my devotee, offer Your obeisances unto Me, worship Me," this rascal says, "It is not to Krsna the person, but to the soul." Now he says... Just see how much ignorant he is. He does not know that Krsna has no such division as His self or soul and the body, and he is writing comment. And this is very scholarly. It is... He is a rascal number one, and he is accepted as scholar. This is going on. This is going on, all over the world.

Therefore Krsna says, avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Mudhas, the rascals, they think, because I appear as a human being, they think as ordinary human being." Param bhavam ajanantah: "They do not know the great potentiality of Myself." Param bhavam ajanantah. Still, they will go on explaining Bhagavad-gita, writing Bhagavata, comments on. These rascals, mudhas, one who does not know that Krsna has no distinction, as we have got distinction body and soul, Krsna has no such distinction. Krsna has no distinction between this Krsna's form of stone and Krsna Himself. Because the stone is also Krsna's energy. Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh. The earth, water, air, fire, everything is Krsna energy. That we have already explained. Parasya brahmanah saktih. Everything Krsna's energy. So He can appear in any form from anywhere from anything. That is Krsna. That is Krsna.

So we have to understand what is Krsna. And as soon as you understand Krsna, janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah, in truth, if you understand Krsna, then you become liberated. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So we have to understand Krsna like that. Sva-tanva: He left this body not as we leave our body. No. We are leaving and accepting our body by the force of nature, material nature. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. Our business is going on being forced, enforced by the laws of nature. Krsna is not under the laws of nature; neither He has got distinction between His self and body. This is to be understood. Sva-tanva. If somebody thinks that "Krsna left His body and died like us..." There are a party, they think like that, "Krsna also died like us." But that is not the fact. Krsna left His so-called body just to befool the rascals. Because the rascals are thinking, "Krsna is like us," therefore to bewilder them, Krsna leaves a maya body so that they may think that "Krsna is like us." But actually here is the secret, that jahau sva-tanva. He left this world in His original body. He has no such distinction. Sravaniya-sat-kathah. If His body is like our body, material body, then what is the use of hearing about His activity? We are interested in the words of Krsna. If Krsna is like us, He has got the same material body, then why we should be interested to read Bhagavad-gita, He is also a man like us?

Therefore here it is said, sravaniya-sat-kathah. By hearing about Krsna, you become liberated. So if He is equally as good as you are, then what is the use of reading His book, reading His instruction? But here it is said, sravaniya-sat-kathah, tadahar apratibuddha-cetasam. These things are spoken by less intelligent class of men, apratibuddha-cetasam. They say, cetasam abhadra-hetuh kalir anvavartata: "Because Krsna passed away, therefore Kali got the opportunity to enter." That is, to some extent it is fact. But Krsna, although left this planet, and if He is everything, how Krsna can go away? Krsna can remain with you eternally. And even if you say that "Because Krsna went away, therefore Kali got the chance of entering," but if you keep yourself with Krsna, where is the chance of Kali to enter? Where is the chance? So you keep yourself in Krsna consciousness. Kali will not be able to touch you.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.15.36 -- Los Angeles, December 14, 1973