Material Body Is Dead Body

72/11/22 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.17

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Prabhupada:

avinasi tu tad viddhi
yena sarvam idam tatam
vinasam avyayasyasya
na kascit kartum arhati
 [Bg. 2.17]

So the distinction between the living soul and the dead body -- anyone can perceive. What is the distinction between a living body and the dead body? When a man is dead, he, his relatives cry, lament: "Oh, my father has gone," "My son has gone." But the father, as we have seen, he's lying on the floor. Where he has gone? He's lying on the floor. Why you are crying: "Oh, my father has gone away"? That means the person who has gone away, who has left this body, you have not, never seen. You have seen this body. So the body is lying there, and why you are crying, "My father has gone away"? So any intelligent man can understand that the real father, within the body, was a different thing. But our ignorance is so great that we accept this body, this dead body, as my father. This body is not only dead now, it was always dead. Because the living soul was there, within this dead body, it was moving. This is the fact. Just like a nice motorcar is running. But when the driver is not there, the motor is lying there, idle. If one identifies with the motorcar, the driver of the car, that is foolishness. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is identifying this dead body, or this material body, which is a composition of tri-dhatuka, kapha-pitta-vayu, some blood, flesh, and some secretion, and some bones -- if anyone identifies the self with this lump of matter, then he is described as no better than cow and ass.

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
 [SB 10.84.13]

So at the present moment especially... This ignorance is there always, in the material world, that one is identifying this material body with the real self. The self, the soul is different. It is not this material body. But our modern education, everything, advancement of knowledge, philosophy, everything on the basis of, on this wrong conception of life. So to give an, a glimpse of idea what is that soul, how it acts, here Krsna, Lord Krsna informs us:

avinasi tu tad viddhi
yena sarvam idam tatam
vinasam avyayasyasya
na kascit kartum arhati

 

So the soul, the presence of soul is perceived by the consciousness. That consciousness... Just like the presence of sun, even I was blind, I could understand the sun is there because the sunlight and heat, I am experiencing. Without seeing the sun... When, as soon as I come to the sunshine, I feel light and heat; therefore immediately I can understand there is sun. It is not very difficult. Similarly just like we try to... When a man is dying, we try to feel whether the man is breathing, or he's feeling touch sensation. These are the tests. So the touch sensation is there so long the soul is there. Now I am living body. If somebody pinches my body, because the consciousness is all over the body, so I feel: "Somebody's pinching me." But when the conscious, consciousness is not there, if somebody chops up my body I will not protest. Therefore we should understand what is that living thing. That consciousness, which is spreading all over this body, that is living force. Krsna says here: avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam. Yena, by that consciousness. The consciousness is spread all over the body. So Krsna says, "That consciousness is avinasi." After the death of, after the annihilation of this body, which we call dead, the consciousness is not dead. That we do not understand. There is no science; there is no philosophy. Everything based on a foolish assumption. They say the consciousness is made possible by combination of matter. The combination of matter, five elements, gross, the subtle elements, they cannot see. Even they see. So their... (aside:) Not now. Their proposition is that this consciousness is a symptom of combination of matter. That is Buddhist philosophy. They do not accept the existence of soul. "The consciousness is a combination of matter." But if it is a fact, then why don't you, if some matter is lacking, why don't you bring that matter or chemical and inject in the dead body and make it again conscious? Why it is not possible? What is your argument? If you say consciousness is combination of matter...

Just like our motorcar is being driven. So when the petrol is finished, matter... Because motorcar running means combination of matter -- some machine, made of matter, and some oil, acting -- so it is running. Of course, the driver is there. But foolish persons, they do not understand, simply combination of matter will not act. There must be a driver, a living person. Then the motorcar will go. So supposing the combination of matter, that the petrol is finished. So we can bring petrol. Again the motor runs. So if this body was running simply on combination of matter, and some matter is lacking, so why not bring that matter and put into it, and it will run? But that is not possible. That is, that was... The living force which was running this body was a different element, spirit. Nasato vidyate bhavo nabhavo vidyate satah. We have discussed this verse. That is living force. And Krsna says, vinasam avyayasya asya. This consciousness has no annihilation. Vinasa. Nobody can kill this consciousness, or the soul. One can do harm to this material body, but not to the spirit soul and consciousness. Vinasam avyaya. Avyaya means which is never deteriorates. That is avyaya. Vinasam avyayasya asya na kascit kartum arhati. Nobody can kill. Nobody can kill consciousness, nobody can kill the soul. Therefore it is said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. "The consciousness, or the spirit soul, is never killed, never annihilated, on the destruction of this body."

So this is a great science. Unfortunately, the so-called scientist, he has no idea. He does not know. They simply say that "We do not know, but we are trying to know." That's all right. But here is the knowledge, perfect knowledge, in the Bhagavad-gita. Why don't you take it? That they will not take. They'll go on speculating and promise falsely that "In future we shall be able to inject some matter within the body and the body will again become alive." That is their dream. In the past history, it was never possible; at present also, it is not possible. How you can expect in future? But they are under illusion. They think like that, that "We are making progress." At all, no progress, practically. They have no knowledge. That is their position. They have no knowledge. So we have to understand from the authority. There are so many arguments. Now, if you say "This body's dead because the blood has become white. Blood corpuscles, they are now become white instead of becoming red." So if that is the possible, so why don't you make the blood red? By some chemical injection or by adding some color, as soon as the blood becomes red... Why don't you do that? No. If you say "That was ‘natural' redness. That natural redness cannot be brought," then your science is defective. And even if we accept that natural redness is the cause of living force, there are many natural redness in the flower, in the jewels. Why does it not move? So all the arguments of these foolish scientists, or so-called logicians, that can be, I mean to say, nullified, if you are intelligent. We have to take..., accept it, because it is said by Krsna, the Supreme Personality. Because we cannot say anything, why it is avinasi, why this body's not avinasi, but the consciousness is avinasi, that we cannot explain; therefore we have to accept the version of the supreme authority. That is education. That is education. We, we cannot deny. Because we cannot give any counterproposal. So how we can deny Krsna's proposal? Avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam. Yena sarvam idam tatam. This is also very significant. Idam sariram.

So I am individual spirit soul. I am conscious. My consciousness is spread all over the body. But my consciousness is not spread over your body. If you are pinched by somebody, I don't feel. Because your consciousness is different from my consciousness. You cannot say that the consciousness is the same in you and me. No. Everyone is individual. Therefore there is another consciousness. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata [Bg. 13.3]. I am ksetra-jna, conscious. I know about the pains and pleasures of my body. You know about the pains and pleasures of your body. I do not know about your pains and pleasure. You do not know about my pains and pleasure. Therefore you are individual soul. I am individual soul. But there is another soul, Supersoul. That is Krsna. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. That Supersoul is present both in you and in me. Ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata [Bg. 13.3]. Sarva-ksetresu bharata. In every living entity. Sarva-ksetresu. It is confirmed in the Vedic sutras, Brahma-sutra: andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. Eko 'py asau racayitum jagad-anda-kotim [Bs. 5.35]. That Supersoul is present within this universe. Because that Supersoul is present within this universe, Krsna says, vistabhya aham: "I enter within this world." Ekamsena sthito jagat: [Bg. 10.42] "I do not enter, but My plenary portion, ekamsena, Paramatma..." The Ksirodakasayi Visnu, He enters. The Garbhodakasayi Visnu, He enters within this universe. And the Ksirodakasayi Visnu enters into everything, even in the atom. Therefore it is working. So that consciousness is there. Because the universal consciousness of Visnu is there, therefore everything within the universe is working so nicely. Not that nature... Nature, you can compare with your body... The material nature is there, but without the soul's presence, the consciousness being there, it will not work.

Therefore as this universe, material cosmic manifestation is working very nicely, you have to accept there is God. You cannot deny. So that consciousness, superconsciousness, that is different. You cannot say that "I am the same. I have got superconsciousness." That is not possible. Then, if you have got superconsciousness, why don't you feel about my pains and pleasure? The superconsciousness is of Visnu. That is all-pervading consciousness. That is also the same. Nature is the same. As I have got my consciousness all over this body, similarly, the superconsciousness is there all over the universe. As I feel pains and pleasure on account of some disturbance on this body, similarly, as soon as we create some disturbance with this universal atmosphere, the supreme consciousness is disturbed. That disturbance is going on. Therefore, in spite of all arrangement... Purnam idam purnam adah purnat purnam udacyate [Isopanisad, Invocation]. That, by God's creation, everything is complete. There is no flaw. But because we are creating disturbances, the world situation is different.

We are creating disturbances. By God's creation, everything is nice. Everything is fine. Take, for example, within this planet, there is sufficient place to grow food for all the population. Not only all the population at the present moment, but if the population increases ten times, twenty times, still, there is sufficient place to produce food for them. We are traveling all over the world three times a year, and we see in Australia and Africa and other countries, there are so much vacant places. And food can be produced, enough food can be produced. Enough milk can be available for feeding all this population. That is God's arrangement. But the difficulty is that we are quarreling amongst ourself. I am thinking Indian. Somebody's thinking "I am an American." Somebody's thinking "I'm Australian." "You cannot come here. You, I cannot allow you to come to my country." The immigration department. Therefore, the difficulty. By God's arrangement, there is everything complete. But I am disturbing. I am encroaching upon God's property: "This is mine." Therefore there is disturbance. Therefore the only solution of the whole world problem is Krsna consciousness. There is no other solution. The only solution. Krsna consciousness means when people will be educated to understand that this planet does not belong to America or India and Africa. Everything belongs... Sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. As Krsna says, "I am the proprietor of all the planets." When you understand this, that is Krsna consciousness. Then there will be peace.

Therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is very important. To educate people. Because foolishly they are claiming God's property his property. Nothing belongs to us. Even this body does not belong to us. As soon as the time factor is finished, my body's finished... So I have got this body, say, for seventy-six years, age, and, say, after ten years, or five years, it will be finished. So before my body was created, the world was there, and when my body will be finished, the world will remain there. Then how can I claim that this world belongs to me? This is called illusion. This is called ignorance. Mudha. Mudha means one does not know to whom the property belongs, but foolishly he's claiming that "It is my property." This Krsna consciousness movement, in other words, it is spiritual communism. The material communism, which is going on, that is defective, because this Communist movement is centered around the state. But when there will be perfect communism -- isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1], the center will be God, Krsna -- that will be perfect. When everyone will understand that Krsna is the central point, Krsna is the proprietor, Krsna is the enjoyer, when perfectly we come to that Krsna consciousness, there will be peace and prosperity. Otherwise it is not possible. Therefore our... Of course, it is not possible that because the number of fools are greater.

But still, as it is suggested in the Bhagavad-gita: yad yad acarati sresthah. Yad yad acarati sresthas tat tad eva itarah janah. If the so-called leaders, they become Krsna conscious, they understand the philosophy, then others will follow. As, at the present moment, because the leaders are foolish, blind, they have no spiritual knowledge, all the population of the world becomes godless. Therefore our appeal is to the leading personalities to understand this Krsna consciousness movement. Try to understand its philosophy, apply in life, and try to distribute this knowledge. Automatically others will accept. Sa yat pramanam kurute lokas tad anuvartate. If Krsna consciousness movement is accepted by the leading personalities... Why they shall not accept unless they are ignorant and less intelligent? Everything is there. The Bhagavad-gita is left for this purpose. It was instructed not to Arjuna, but to the whole world, in the midst of Battlefield of Kuruksetra. So the whole world is a battlefield now. They should learn the teachings of Bhagavad-gita and thus become happy within this world.
Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.17 -- Hyderabad, November 22, 1972

Meaning of Dhira

72/11/17 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.12

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Prabhupada:

na tv evaham jatu nasam
na tvam neme janadhipah
na caiva na bhavisyamah
sarve vayam atah param
 [Bg. 2.12]

Krsna is giving more enlightenment on the living entity, soul. "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." Now, Krsna says that "In the past I existed. So also you. And so also all these soldiers and the kings who have assembled in this fighting. They existed in the past. For the present, there is no question of asking... We are existing. And in the future also, it is not that we shall not exist." That means, "We shall exist." So what is "I," "you," and "others"? I am individual person. You are individual person, and all others, they're also, each and every one of them, individual persons. So in the past we were all individuals; at present we are all individuals; and in the future also, we shall remain individuals. So where there is question of merging, become one? Here Krsna says that "In the past we are individual persons, in the present we are all individual persons, and in future also, we shall remain individuals."

So the Mayavadi theory that impersonal, how it stands? Neither God is impersonal, nor the living entities are impersonal. Every one of us -- person. The difference between the Supreme Person and our personality is that He is all-powerful; we are limited. Our power is limited. Everything, ours, limited. Anu, vibhu. He is great; we are small. He is infinite; we are infinitesimal, very small. Otherwise, in all other qualities, we are one. There is no difference. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. In eternity, in blissfulness, and in knowledge. Everything is there. But Krsna's knowledge and our knowledge, different. Just like Krsna said, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. "I spoke this yoga system, Bhagavad-gita, long, long ago to the sun-god." Vivasvan manave praha. "And the sun-god explained it to his son, Manu; and Manu again, in his turn, he explained to his son, Iksvaku. In this way, this knowledge of Bhagavad-gita is coming by the disciplic succession." So Krsna says, "I spoke." So it is millions and millions, at least, four hundred thousand millions of times, millions of years ago, according to the calculation of Manu. So Krsna said million; and millions of years ago this Bhagavad-gita, He remembers. But Arjuna inquired from Him that "How can I believe that You spoke this Bhagavad-gita millions of millions years ago to sun-god, because we are contemporary?" Krsna and Arjuna, they're of, practically of the same age.

So Arjuna was calculating as a human being about Krsna. That was his mistake. That was his not mistake. That was his inquiry to clear the mistake of our. We mistake Krsna as one of us. Because Krsna comes down as human being, we, due to our lack of knowledge, poor fund of knowledge, we think Krsna is as good as we are. But actually it is not. Krsna is God. We are ordinary living entities. His knowledge, His power of remembrance, His power of knowing everything perfectly is different from our knowing. But unfortunately we think, "God may be little greater than me." That is that Dr. Frog philosophy. We have explained several times. Kupa-manduka-nyaya. The frog within the well, he is calculating the dimension of Pacific Ocean. So by this dog, frog philosophical way, we can, we cannot understand what is God. We must receive the knowledge from God Himself, or from a person who knows God. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Now, according to maya..., Mayavada philosophy, they say that there is no duality. It is a kind of illusion that we see difference between God and ourself. That is maya. Then Krsna is not advocating herewith about the impersonal feature of the Lord. He says, ah, He represents... He is God himself. He says "I, I was existing as I am existing now, and in future also, I shall exist like this." So He was speaking as individual person. So in the past He says that "I was individual person." And in the present He's individual person. So why these Mayavadi philosophy, philosophers, do not understand this direct version from the Supreme Personality of Godhead? Because asuram bhavam asritah [Bg. 7.15]. The Mayavadi philosophers, they do not accept the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead. They think God is as good as they are. Therefore they introduce themselves as Narayana. But according to Vaisnava philosophy, Narayana cannot be equal to any one of us. What speak of us, Narayana cannot be equally estimated even with great demigods like Lord Brahma, Lord Siva. That is... The Vaisnava Purana says, yas tu narayanam devam brahma-rudradi-daivataih, samatvenaiva vikseta sa pasandi bhavad dhruvam: [Cc. Madhya 18.116] "Anyone who calculates Narayana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, equal with such demigods, not, what to speak of ordinary human beings, even big, big demigods like Lord Siva, Lord Brahma, he immediately becomes a pasandi, atheist." So if... The Mayavadi philosophy, they put forward this argument that "Because we are now in maya, we are thinking that we are different from God." But Krsna is making thus such differentiation that... He's making, He's saying, "You and I and all these." So does it mean that Krsna is also covered by maya or illusion? Because He is very clearly differentiating between Him and the living entities, all individuals. So if the Mayavadi philosopher is right that this differentiation is due to our illusion, then we have to accept Krsna is also in illusion. Because He's making differentiation. So if Krsna is in illusion, then what is the use of taking His version? Because our proposition is that we have to take knowledge from the perfect person. So if Krsna is in illusion, then how He can become perfect person, and the knowledge delivered by Him is perfect? No. Krsna is not illusioned. We are in illusion. Krsna is not in illusion. Krsna cannot be in illusion.

(reads from purport:) "In the Vedas, in the Katha Upanisad as well as in the Svetasvatara Upanisad, it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the maintainer of innumerable living entities..." The Supreme Personality of Godhead... Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam eko bahunam vidadhati kaman (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). There is eka and bahu. The bahu, they are also nitya and cetana. That means we living entities, we are also cetana and eternal. And Krsna is also eternal and cetana. So so far the living symptoms and the eternity is concerned, both the living entities and God, Krsna, they are one. But the difference is that eko bahunam vidadhati kaman, that one, that chief one, although He's eternal and living force as we are, but He is the chief. He maintains all others. That is the version. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman, tam atma-stham ye 'nupasyanti dhiras tesam santih sasvati netaresam. This is the version from Kathopanisad. Nityo nityanam. He's the supreme eternal amongst all the other eternals. Cetanas cetananam. He's the supreme living force amongst all other living forces. Eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. That one, singular number, eka, He is providing, maintaining, all other living entities. Tam atma-stham. He is also in everyone's heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. Tam atma-stham ye 'nupasyanti dhirah. Anyone who can perceive His presence, dhira, very highly learned or very gentle, dhira... Dhira means who is not disturbed. He's called dhira. And there are others who are called adhira. Adhira means those who are disturbed. So those who are in the material world, they are always disturbed. And those who are on the spiritual platform, they are dhira. Dhiradhira. About the Gosvamis it is said:

krsnotkirtana-gana-nartana-parau premamrtambho-nidhi
dhiradhira-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pujitau
sri-caitanya-krpa-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bharavahantarakau
vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau

So one who is in the transcendental position, he's dhira. One poet, poet Kalidasa, he has described, dhira means: "Even in the presence of provocation, one who is not disturbed, he's called dhira." He has described about Lord Siva. When Lord Siva was being worshiped by Parvati, Lord Siva was naked and Parvati was worshiping the siva-linga, but he did not become agitated. Therefore Kalidasa has described: dhira. Dhira. One who is not... The first disturbance is sexual disturbance. So anyone, although he is completely potent with all the potencies, but still, he is not disturbed with sex impulses, he's called dhira. Actually, that is called brahmacari. Brahmacari is not he is impotent. He can marry. He can beget children. But self-restrained. He's so self-restrained, that he's not disturbed. Unless he desires that "I shall have sex and for begetting children," he's not disturbed. That is called dhira. Not by seeing any woman or man, one is disturbed. He's adhira. She's adhira. So dhiradhira-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau... The Gosvamis, they were equally respectable for the dhiras and the adhiras. So a, a spiritual master, a gosvami, should be equally merciful both for the dhiras and the adhiras. Otherwise, he cannot become a preacher. Preacher has to meet so many fallen souls. So he, if he becomes disturbed, then he cannot preach. Therefore dhira. This word is here: anupasyanti, tam atma-stham ye anupasyanti dhira. He's called dhira. Without being dhira, you cannot perceive the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead within your heart, because the God is there in Paramatma feature. But you have to become dhira, without being disturbed. Then you can understand: "Here is Krsna within my heart."

premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.38]

This dhira can be possible when we develop love for Krsna. Then we become dhira. Otherwise, it is not possible. Otherwise we shall be disturbed.

Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. And how we can see God? Not with these eyes. These eyes, but there must be some ointment. That is called prema. Just like a mother sees his child, although not very beautiful, very beautiful. Because he has, she has got love for the child. Others, they are seeing the child not very beautiful. The mother, out of ecstatic love, sees the child very beautiful. So similarly, unless we have developed our love for Krsna, we cannot see the Supreme Personality of Godhead within our heart, not only within our heart, everywhere.

premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.38]

(reads purport) "The same Vedic truth given to Arjuna is given to all persons in the world who pose themselves as very learned but factually have but a poor fund of knowledge." This is poor fund of knowledge that "God and I, we one. Now, because we are illusioned, we are thinking that God is different from me, but when the illusion is over, then I and God become one." This is Mayavadi theory, monism. But actually this is not clear knowledge. God is..., God is always distinct from me. He's the Supreme. It is not that we are equal to God. We are equal to God in quality, not in quantity. Therefore those who are thinking that they are equal to God in every respect, they are illusioned. Maya, mayaya apahrta-jnanah. They have been called, they have been designated by Krsna as mayaya apahrta-jnanah. Although they appear to be very learned scholars, but the essence of the knowledge is taken away by maya. Therefore they say that God and ordinary human being is the same. Mayaya apahrta... Asura. This is called asura-bhava. Asura-bhava means not to accept the supremacy of the Lord but think Him as one with all individual souls. But that is not the fact. That is poor fund of knowledge. Actually, when one becomes advanced in knowledge, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. In due course of time, after many, many births, when he actually comes to the platform of knowledge, he can understand that "Vasudeva is great and I am small, I am insignificant." Therefore he surrenders. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate. This is the sign of knowledge. When one surrenders to Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is to be understood that he has actually attained knowledge. Otherwise it is ignorance. To think of Krsna and ordinary person as equal is not knowledge; it is illusion.

So anyone who takes shelter of Krsna by the words of Krsna, believing Him... So... Just like Krsna says, mam ekam saranam vraja. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Krsna orders that "You surrender unto Me. You become My devotee. You always think of Me." Man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah [Bg. 9.34]. "You become My devotee." Mad-yaji. "You worship Me. You offer your obeisances unto Me." Persons who are in poor fund of knowledge, they think, "It is too much. Krsna is demanding too much. It is sophistry." No, no. That is not sophistry. That is the real position. Otherwise, without surrendering to Krsna, if you think yourself, that you are Krsna, that is in illusion, avisuddha-buddhayah, contaminated intelligence. Avisuddha-buddhayah. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. Because they cannot understand Krsna, so their knowledge is not perfect, or not purified. Knowledge perfect is there in every living entity, but it is contaminated by the contact of maya. So one who can understand the position of Krsna and himself, he's called mukta. Mukta means liberated. Mukti means to know perfectly what is our relationship with Krsna. That is called mukti. (pause)

The verse...

antavanta ime deha
nityasyoktah saririnah
anasino 'prameyasya
tasmad yudhyasva bharata
 [Bg. 2.18]

Yuddha, fighting, Arjuna was ksatriya. It is his duty. Because here, in this material world, violence is also required. Violence. Because everyone is competitor, everyone is trying to become the Supreme, so there will be violence. Just like in your state, at the present moment, there is violence because one party is trying to become Supreme than the other. That is going on everywhere, all over the world, the struggle for existence. Everyone is trying to become supreme than the other. So there must be violence. So expecting that there will be violence, the ksatriya class required. Just like in the state, expecting that there will be violence, therefore the police department is maintained, the military department is maintained. So you cannot avoid violence from this material world. It is useless proposal. Our Mahatma Gandhi tried to stop violence. He started the nonviolence movement, but factually he had to die by violence. So ksatriya, they are trained up violent to become violent to stop violence. That is required. Therefore Krsna advises that "Don't try to become nonviolent because..." Tasmad yudhyasva bharata. "Don't think that by killing the body, your grandfather, or your nephews and your brother on the other side, they will be finished. No. They'll live. The body may be destroyed." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. But actual soul, he'll transmigrate. According to Vedic philosophy, if a ksatriya dies in proper fighting, then he is immediately transferred to the heavenly planet, the heavenly planet. Because he sacrifices his body for right cause. Formerly, the fight was not a very trifle thing. After much consideration, then fighting or war was declared. Just like the fighting between the Kurus and the Pandavas; first of all, there was great endeavor to stop the fight. Krsna Himself became the messenger and was going from this party to another. Because Krsna... Both the parties were Krsna's family relatives. So He wanted to stop and mitigate the misunderstanding by mutual settlement. But it was not possible. The Duryodhana's party said that "We are not prepared to spare even a small piece of land which can hold the tip of the needle." Sucagra-bhumi. Then it was decided there must be fight. That fighting was meant for the ksatriyas. Formerly, there was no democracy. The so-called democracy. Democracy means that there was one king only; now there are hundreds of kings. One king and few ministers. Now one governor, one, I mean to say, three dozen secretaries, and three dozen... So many things... It is overburdened. The tax, tax is overburdened because there are so many officers. They have to be sumptuously paid. So tax is required. So in this age, Kali-yuga, by, I mean to say, finishing the monarchical system, people have accepted the democratic system, but it is not very much improvement. Because the state expenditure has very much increased and people are very much overburdened with taxes. So Krsna advises that tasmad yudhyasva. Tasmad yudhyasva bharata. "Don't think that your grandfather, or the other party, relatives, they'll be destroyed by fighting. It is not the fact, that, by destruction of the body, the soul is destroyed." Real purpose is... Bhagavad-gita. That we should understand that the soul is always existing, even... Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20].

ya enam vetti hantaram
yas cainam manyate hatam
ubhau tau na vijanito
nayam hanti na hanyate
 [Bg. 2.19]

There is another example. Krsna says... Because the soul is immortal, eternal, so if somebody kills somebody, the body is destroyed, but the soul is not destroyed. So if one thinks that "I have killed him, he's finished," he's also foolish. And one who thinks that "If I have died in the fight, then I will be finished." No. Ubhau tau na vijanitah. Both of them are ignorant. Ubhau tau na vijanito nayam hanti na hanyate. The living soul is never killed, neither he can kill others. For duty's sake... Of course, when there is fight... That is called dharma-yuddha. Dharma-yuddha, by the order of the Supreme. Just like Arjuna was fighting by the order of the Supreme. That is dharma-yuddha. If there is no sanction by the dharma, there is sastra injunction, "In this case fighting should be there, in case, in this case, there should be no fighting..." So one who follows the principles of regulation in the Vedas, that is called dharma-yuddha. Even there is fight, there is religion, there is piety. Even by killing and being killed. Two ksatriyas are fighting. Either he kills or he is being killed, in both ways they are profited. That will be explained. Just like Arjuna was advised that "My dear Arjuna, why you are hesitating to fight? Both ways you'll be benefited. If you can kill your enemies, then you get the kingdom, you enjoy. And if you are killed, then you are promoted to the heavenly planets. So where is your loss? Where is your loss?" This is the instruction given. A ksatriya who is fighting for the real cause, as sanctioned by the dharma-sastras, when both ways he's profited. If he becomes victorious, he's profited, but if he's killed in the battle, he's also profited. Both ways.

ya enam vetti hantaram
yas cainam manyate hatam
ubhau tau na vijanito
nayam hanti na hanyate
 [Bg. 2.19]

Then the next verse He clearly explains:

na jayate mriyate va kadacin
nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah
ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano
na hanyate hanyamane sarire
 [Bg. 2.20]

This soul... "Do not think that soul is born." No. As God is ever-existing, the soul is ever-existing. It is not... There is no question of birth. And when there is no question of birth, there is no question of death. Because we experience, anything, anybody, who has taken birth, he dies. Nobody will live here. So if the soul has no birth, there is no question of death. And as Krsna, God, God is eternal, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam Purana [Bs. 5.33]. Purana means old. Because Krsna is the original person, therefore He must be Purana, the oldest, older than Brahma. Because Brahma is given birth by Krsna. Therefore Krsna has been addressed in the Bhagavad-gita as prapitamaha [Bg. 11.39]. Brahma is called pitamaha, the grandfather, and prapitamaha means "the father of the grandfather." So Krsna has been addressed as prapitamaha, "father of Brahma." Therefore He's adi-purusa. Actually, within this creation, Lord Brahma is the original person, because he was firstborn. There was no other person before him. But he's given birth by Narayana, from the abdomen of Narayana in the lotus flower. Therefore He's the father of Brahma. Prapitamaha [Bg. 11.39]. So Krsna here says, because that Mayavadi philosophy's also nullified here. Because here it is said, na jayate, na jayate mriyate va kadacin nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah. Mayavada philosophy says that the living entity has become separated on account of illusion. Not becomes separated. He is... There is no separation. But it is illusion; he's thinking, "I am different from God." But Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loke sanatanah [Bg. 15.7]. That amsa, part and parcel of God, he's sanatana. Not that, being covered by illusion, he's thinking "I am separated." He's separated always, sanatana. That is the statement of the Vedas. Separated. Although separated, quality one, but that separation, that fragments of Krsna, that is sanatana. It is not that by maya we are fragmental separated; when we are liberated, we merge into the body or the effulgence of God. We are separated in..., perpetually. Although we are eternal, but we are perpetually... vibhinnamsa. In the Varaha Purana it is said, vibhinnamsa, "separated part and parcel." So we should understand very clearly that, although we are eternal, part and parcel, but we are separated. Separated in this sense that we are, everyone of us, are individual, not merge into the existence. Everything is existing. In the Bhagavad-gita, you'll find: mat-sthani sarva-bhutani naham tesu avasthitah [Bg. 9.4]. Everything is existing in Him, Krsna. But still, Krsna is not the living entity.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna.

 

Indian: (Hindi?)

Prabhupada: Bhakti... If we chant Hare Krsna mantra, then we come to our perfection. At the present moment, we are illusioned. Just like every one of us thinking that "I am this body." Otherwise, why there is so much fighting? Everyone is thinking, "I am this body." This bodily concept of life is maya, illusion, or ignorance. So the whole process is to drive away the ignorance. Drive away. That is called jnana. We are in the ajnana.

ajnana-timirandhasya
jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena
tasmai sri-gurave namah

Every one of us is covered by the darkness of ajnana. What is that ajnana? "I am this body." "I am Indian." "I am American." "I am Andhra," "I am Bengali." "I am this, I am that." So there is fighting, due to ajnana. So first of all we have to drive away this ajnana. Therefore Krsna is teaching Arjuna that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul." This is the first spiritual instruction by the authority to anyone, that "You are not this body." So by chanting Hare Krsna mantra... It is the medicine recommended in the sastra, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That dust of ignorance is moved. He can understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, part and parcel of Krsna. My duty is to serve Krsna." In this way, he becomes enlightened gradually.

Question: Lord Krsna has claimed in the past He was existing, in present, He exists, in future He will be. In what... [break]... form Krsna is not?

Prabhupada: Just like you have dressed now, covered yourself with some type of dress. So if you change your dress, does it mean that you are finished?

Indian: But He...

Prabhupada: Try to understand: You are now in my presence dressed in a certain type of covering. Now, if you change this covering, does it mean you are finished.

Indian: No.

Prabhupada: Similarly, this body, this material body, has been explained as dress. So if I change my dress... Now, suppose I am now human being, and I change my dress to become a demigod, or I change my dress to become a dog. It does not mean that I am finished. I have simply changed my dress, according to my karma. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. By your karma, you'll have a dress. After death, as it is explained in this verse, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20], the living soul is not destroyed after the destruction of this body. Therefore he remains, and his finer dress, subtle dress, is there -- mind, intelligence, and ego. So according to the composition of his mind, he develops another gross dress. This is the process. So you, spirit soul, you are always the same, although you are changing dress. Our problem is that we are perpetually changing dress, but our desire is to have a permanent life. That is spiritual education. You can have a permanent life, permanent dress, permanent knowledge, if you become free from this dress-changing problem. That is called mukti. The Krsna consciousness movement is to stop this business of dress changing. Yes?

Question: So do you mean to say that Krsna is also karma-bound?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Question: Do you mean to say that Krsna is also karma-bound?

 

Prabhupada: No, no.

Question: Just now you have quoted the example, sir, that as we changing our dresses, Krsna will also change that dress by changing from past to...

Prabhupada: What is, I have explained?

Indian: So just now you were complaining that as we change our dresses, Krsna will also be changing.

Prabhupada: Where, where I have said? I have never said.

Devotee: That man's original question is: "What form is Krsna in now?"

Indian: No. Excuse me. His question was: "Krsna was, will be and He is in what form?"

Prabhupada: Oh, his question was...?

Devotee: Yes. His question was that if Krsna says that "Never was there a time when you and I..." [break]

Prabhupada: That is not correct. Krsna... As we have got distinction between the body and the soul, Krsna has no such distinction. Krsna is completely soul. And if we think that Krsna is like us, that is forbidden. Avajananti mam mudhah, tanu, manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because Krsna comes before us just like a human being, if we think that "He's also like me," then we are ass. Krsna does not change His dress. Otherwise, Krsna could not say that "Millions and millions of years ago I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." Because..., because we change our dress, we forget what I was, what you were, in your past life. Because you have changed the dress... [break]

Question: What is the business of Krsna consciousness society?

Prabhupada: Always thinking of Krsna. As Krsna says. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. These four principles. Always think of Krsna, become Krsna's devotee, worship Krsna and offer your respect, obeisances to Krsna. That's all. This is Krsna consciousness. They are doing that. Nothing more, nothing less. These four principles.

Question: Is Narayana... [break]

Prabhupada: (Hindi:) ...sastra sunye paregara, samanye paregara, vo sastra janta nai chela grantha paragara, kavi mana...(?) (Hindi)

Question: The fundamental question of our interest is to know soul.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Question: The fundamental question of our interest is to know soul.

Prabhupada: Yes...?

Question: So what is the form and what is the definition of soul, and how to know whether there is soul...?

Prabhupada: That is... that is... that is described. We are describing na jayate na mriyate. Soul is never born, soul never dies. Soul is eternal. Nityah sasvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Even after the destruction of this body, the soul is not destroyed. These, these are the education.

Indian: There is a test of knowing the thing. You are just describing the qualities of the soul. If you can say mango, mango is very sweet, color is like this. But it requires to taste the mango. So I want to realize the soul. What is the shortest way?

Prabhupada: There is mango. But you have no eyes to see it. That is the difference. Soul is there. Just like we have begun our instruction: dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. There is dehi. There is the soul within this body. Krsna says. So we have to accept Krsna's authority. You cannot see the soul. That does not mean there is no soul. Your, what is the value of your eyes? You cannot see so many things. Because you cannot see the soul, it does not mean there is no soul. We have to accept the authority.

Indian: Why can't I see?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian: Why I can't...?

Prabhupada: Because your eyes are imperfect.

Indian: So what is the proof that there is soul?

Prabhupada: Because there is a proof. As soon as the soul is gone, you are dead body. That is the proof.

Indian: I should like that thing...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian: I should see.

Prabhupada: But you must be qualified to know.

Indian: How?

Prabhupada: That I have already explained, that you must become... Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. You must approach to a person who knows by surrender, not by challenge. You cannot know about soul and God by this challenging spirit. You have to become a submissive, submissive. You have to accept a spiritual master who knows. Then you'll know. It is not that in a meeting by challenging, you can know. No. That is not possible.

Indian: How to get that master who knows?

Prabhupada: That you have to search out. If you are fortunate, you'll get.

Indian (2): In Bhagavad-gita... [break]

Prabhupada: ... dvaita-advaita, that we have explained.

Indian: Dvaita-advaita, yes?

Prabhupada: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. Just like this finger is, is my finger. So it is part of this body. So you can, you can say, "This finger is also body." But, at the same time, the finger is not the body. Is it clear? You cannot say "This finger the whole body." But at the same time, you can say, "Yes, finger is body." If you say, "This is my body," there is no wrong because finger is also part of the body. But if you say that "The finger is body," that is also wrong. This is dvaita-advaita. It is simultaneously one and different. Similarly, the soul and the Supreme Lord, equal in quality. Krsna says, mamaivamsa. The small particle of gold is gold. That is advaita. You cannot say, because it is small particle of gold, you cannot say, "It is iron." It is gold. That is advaita. But the gold mine and the gold earring, there is difference. You cannot say the gold earring is as good as the gold mine. That is dvaita. so in this way, as so far our spiritual existence is concerned, we are one. But so far our energies are concerned, that is different. That is dvaita-advaita. You have no such big energy as God has. In that sense you are different. God can create millions of universe by His breathing. Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah [Bs. 5.48]. You can create one small sputnik, and take credit. But God can create innumerable universes simply by breathing. So your energy, your power, is different from God's power. But in quality, you are one with God.

Indian: Then you must prove it is dvaita.

Prabhupada: Both advaita and dvaita. Both...

Indian: How? How? Prove, how?

Prabhupada: That, that is, that requires little brain. That requires little brain. Not dull brain. Very fertile brain requires. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.12 -- Hyderabad, November 17, 1972

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The Fragrance Of The Soul -- The Learning Of The Fool

66/03/04 New York, Bhagavad-gita 2.11

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Prabhupada: So Krsna is, in this sen..., He's identified, that bhagavan. Bhagavan means that nobody can surpass His knowledge. Because I have already given the definition of bhagavan, that a personality who is in full, all the opulences -- wealth, strength, fame and knowledge, beauty and renunciation -- He is God. You see? So... Now, in this, at the present moment, when people are godless, I think, this definition is convincing. If you find out a personality that, one who has got in full all these opulences, He is God. Then it will be very difficult to present an ordinary man as God. You see? You'll find that in the Bhagavad-gita, when Arjuna was convinced that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead... But because in future others will have doubt about Krsna, he requested Krsna that "Will You show me Your universal form?" And Krsna agreed and showed him the universal form. That means in future any intelligent man, accepting a so-called God, may also ask him, "Just show something, that you are God." Without showing something, simply by false advertisement, one cannot be God. So whole mistake is that we do not know what is God. We consider God may be just like one of us. No. The God who is controlling such a huge affairs of universal administration, He cannot be, He is superconscious. That is superconsciousness.

Now, here, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. Now, the whole living existence is a very subtle thing. Now, this body, this body made of earth, water, fire, air, sky, this gross body; and behind this, there is another subtle body. That is mind, intelligence and ego. So when we give up this gross body, that subtle body carries me to another gross body. So when this, this body is lifeless, that body, subtle body, is not lifeless. Just like at night, when this gross body is asleep, the subtle body works. Therefore we dream. So subtle body carries to next life. And I have given in the introduction that how one man changes his body. Yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Now, the subtle body, I mean to say, mind, intelligence and ego, when these three things, psychic life, is absorbed in a certain kind of thought, the dying man gets a similar body in the next life. The, that we shall come when we make progress in the study of Bhagavad-gita. Just like the air passing over the rose tree carries the flavor of the rose, and the air passing over a filthy place carries the flavor of that filthy place -- the air is pure, but because it is passing over certain conditions, it carries the flavor -- similarly, the mind, intelligence and ego carries the flavor of our present activities to the next life. That is the subtle mystery of transmigration of the soul from one body to another. Now, if this, this life we purify just like rose, then next life we shall get a body which is full of flavor. If, if, if in this life, if we practice devotion of God, then next life is to become the associate of God. That cintamani-prakara-sadmasu... We are transferred to that planet. You see? These are simple things. The whole thing is in my hand. If I want to be degraded, I can prepare myself in this life for such degradation in the next life. And if we want to elevate ourself to the highest perfection of life, as to become one of the associates of God, we can prepare ourself like that. You'll find in the, in the advanced chapters, that yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah [Bg. 9.25]. Now, we are trying to go to the moon planet. Now, here, in this life, if cultivate ourself for the same thought, the moon planet... That means the moon planet, about moon planet, we have to hear, and we have to think that "I shall go in such and such place." Unless you hear, you cannot abide here. Just like our friend, Mr. Cohen, he has left for California. Now, so far I am concerned, I have no idea of California. Now, he has told me that after reaching there, he'll write about the description of the place. Now, suppose if, reading that description of the place, I think of going there, so I prepare myself, "Oh, I must go there." So just like I, I was describing that cintamani-dhama [Bs. 5.29], what sort of trees are there. And you were very much pleased that "I must go there." So we have to hear. Unless we hear what sort of God He is, what sort of God's place is, what is the mode of life there, we cannot be attracted. We cannot be attracted.

So here they say that gatasun agatasums ca. There are two, two sort of bodies in which we are now entered. Now, suppose this gross body appears to be now dead and gone, stopped, but one must know that subtle body has carried him to another body. So subtle body is not lost life. The life is there. So here Krsna says that either of the gross body or of... Subtle body has to be also left. When you get liberation, when you get liberation, that subtle body, that egoistic life, has also to be left. Now, at any condition, the body has to be left. So why one should cry for this body? Therefore Krsna says that "A learned man does not lament over this body." The whole question, that a soul is different from this body, the whole question is solved in one verse. You see? Gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah [Bg. 2.11]. "One who is actually learned, he does not, he has no concern of this body. He's concerned with the activities of the soul. So you are speaking of so many things that 'If these, my friends, die, the, I mean to say, their wives will become widow.' These are all... According to the bodily relation, you are speaking. And you are posing yourself just like a very learned man, but you are a fool number one because your whole conception is on the body. Your whole conception of argument with Me was on the body, but you are, you are posing himself just as if you are very learned man." So anyone who has got conception, the identification of this body, he's not a learned man. He's a fool. He may be, in the calculation of academic education, he may be B.A., M.A., Ph.D., DAC, or something like, doctors and..., but if he has got his identification with this body, he's not a learned man according to Bhagavad-gita. Not only according, according to whole Vedic literature. This is the first instruction. This is the... If we want to make progress towards spiritual advancement of knowledge, this preliminary knowledge we must have, that "I am not this body. I am not this body." This is the preliminary standing of spiritual knowledge. This is not advancement. This is simply A-B-C-D, ABCD of spiritual life. In the Bhagavata there is a very nice verse in this connection in which it is stated, yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma-ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. Kunape means this bag, this bag made of three elements. Now, according to Ayurvedic medical system, this body is made of three elements: kapha, pitta, vayu.

Woman: Three elements?

Prabhupada: Yes. Kapha. Kapha means cold, coldness.

Woman: Common.

Prabhupada: Cough, cough, what do you call cough? Coughing. Yes. Kapha, pitta, vayu: "coldness, heat and air." Yes. Only these three things constitute this body. Therefore it is called a bag made of three elements: coldness, air and fire, heat. Heat, coldness and air -- this body's made.

Woman: What, what does coldness stand for?

Prabhupada: Coldness, you can take it for water, or secretion.

Woman: Water.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Woman: Yes. Water, fire and air.

Prabhupada: Water, fire and air.

Woman: That's better.

Prabhupada: Now, the Bhagavata says that yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke: [SB 10.84.13] "If anyone, he's identified with this body made of water, air and fire..." And yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. This is a body made of three things. Now... And sva-dhih kalatradisu: "And if one thinks the issues, the by-products of this body as his own kinsmen..." Just like my children, my wife, my relatives, my father, my mother, my brother, my nation, my society -- everything is due to this bodily relation. And there are thousands of women loitering in the street of New York, and suppose I have got some ma..., bodily connection with you, I call you my wife. And because I have got bodily relation with you, all the children produced by you, they are my children. You see? So whole thing is... The basic principle is wrong, that "I am this body." Now, from the expansion of the body, the whole thing, the whole thing is false. Because I am not this body, so my expansion of body is also not I am. But whole world is going on on this false impression. The whole world is going on. The fight, the fighting between one nation and another nation -- because due to this body. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. "One who is identified with this body, which is made of water, fire and, water, fire and air, and the issues from this body as kinsmen and own men..." Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dha.., sva-dhih kalatradisu: "And," I mean to say, "attachment, attachment for such issues..." And bhauma-ijya-dhih: "And the land from which this body has grown up, that is worshipable." Now everybody is fighting for the land. "Oh, we are Indian." "We are Pakistani." "We are Vietnamese." "We are Americans." "We are German." The fighting, so much fighting is going on. The land, for the land. So land, land has become worshipable, so worshipable that one is sacrificed his valuable life for that land. You see? But the land is so dear, why? This body has become grown up from this land. So that is also there, the bodily connection.

So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma-ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. In the land... They have no meaning for God. Now, the Russian philosophy, they have no meaning for God, but they have every meaning for their land, for the land. So land has been identified as worshipable, and they're prepared to sacrifice anything for the land. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke: "One who is identified with this body and one who thinks the bodily offshoots as his own men, and the land from which the body has grown as worshipable," yat-tirtha-buddhih salile.

Yat-tirtha-buddhih salile. Now, in Christian world also, that the water of the Jordan River is sacred is considered. Similarly, Hindus also, when they go to some pilgrimage, they take bath on the sacred river. But one should know that going to the sacred place does not mean simply to take bath in that water. Real meaning of going to a sacred place -- to find out some intelligent scholar in spiritual knowledge. They are living there. To make association with them, to take knowledge from them -- that is the purpose of going to pilgrimage. Because in pilgrimage, holy places... Just like I, my residence is at Vrndavana. So at Vrndavana there are many great scholars and saintly persons living. So one should go to such holy places not simply to take bath in the water, but he must be intelligent enough to find out some spiritually advanced man living there and take instruction from him and (be) benefited by that. But he does not go. He takes simply bath and purchases some goods and advertises, "Oh, I have been to such and such pilgrimage." Well... yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13] and yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu: "He has the attachment for pilgrimage, for taking bath only, but he has no attraction for the learned people there." You see?

So such kind of man is considered as ass. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. Go-khara. Go-khara. Go means cow or..., and khara means ass. So practically the whole world is moving as the civilization of cow and asses because the whole thing is identification with this... The center is this body, and expansion of the body, the attraction, whole attraction is there. Yes? You want to...?

Woman: Yes. In the Indian places known as sacred places...

Prabhupada: Sac... Yes.

Woman: ...isn't ...sacred places...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Woman: ...isn't it also a fact that there is more magnetism there because of the meeting of...

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Certainly.

Woman: ...saints and more people...?(?)

Prabhupada: Certainly. Certainly. Certainly. Therefore the place itself has got some magnetism. You see?

Woman: Yes. And when...

Prabhupada: Just like at Vrndavana, at Vrndavana... That is practical. Now here I am sitting, New York, a very great, the world's greatest city, so magnificent city, but my heart is always hankering after that Vrndavana.

Woman: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. I am not happy here.

Woman: Yes, I know.

Prabhupada: I shall be very happy to return to my Vrndavana, that sacred place. "But then why you are...?" Now, because it is my duty. I have brought some message for you people. Because I am ordered by superior, my spiritual master, that "Whatever you have learned, you should go to the Western countries, and you must distribute this knowledge." So in spite of all my difficulties, all my inconveniences, I am here because I am in duty. I, I... That is my personal convenience, if I go and sit down at Vrndavana, I shall be very comfortable there. And I'll be, I'll have no anxiety, nothing of the sort. You see? But I have taken all the risk in the old age because I am in duty-bound. I am in duty-bound. So I have to execute my duty in spite of all my inconveniences. That is the idea.

So this is the whole thing, the whole basic principle of spiritual advancement of knowledge. One should first be convinced that he is not this body. He is not this body. Then other spiritual knowledge will begin. This is the basic principle. You'll find it. You'll find it in the Bhagavad-gita that this situation of spiritual life is called brahma-bhutah. Brahman. So

brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
 [Bg. 18.54]

So the, unless one understands himself, he also cannot understand God also. In his, in his misunderstanding position... Now, what Dr. Mishra is teaching is very nice because he is teaching that "Just first of all you know 'What I am, what I...' " That's very good. But that "what I am" can be known from the Bhagavad-gita also, that "I am not this body. I am not this body." That knowledge, at least theoretically, one must accept, that "I am not this body." Now Krsna is describing that what is the position. I am not this body. That's all right. Now, actually, what we are? What we are? I'm not body. That's all right. Then what we are? Now, the next, next version is Krsna... We must always know that Krsna... Here it is said, bhagavan uvaca. Bhagavan uvaca. Bhagavan uvaca means that He has got so extensive knowledge that there cannot be any mistake. He's authority. He's authority. So whatever He says is right. Is right. That is the conception of bhagavan. Here it is not said, Krsnah uvaca. Because somebody may doubt Krsna, that "Krsna was a historical personality. Why you should be so much concerned with Krsna?" as is general view. But here it is said, bhagavan uvaca. And I have given you the definition of Bhagavan, that He is all knowledge. So whatever He will speak, Bhagavan, there cannot be any mistake. For ordinary persons, there are four, I mean to say, difficulties, four imperfectness. Just like we are ordinary man. We have got four imperfectness. What is that imperfectness? That we must commit mistake. We must commit mistake. Our constitutional position at the present moment is such that we are sure to commit mistake. Even greatest politician like Gandhi, he committed mistake, and so many great men, they committed mistake. "To err is human," therefore, it is called, that any, any man, however he may be great in the estimation of this world, he is sure to commit mistake. And another imperfection is that he is illusioned.

Woman: Illusioned.

Prabhupada: Illusioned. Now, illusioned you can see. Illusioned means taking one thing for another. That is called illusion. Just like in the desert, accepting the sand as water. That is called illusion. Similarly, every one of us who are identified with this body, he's under illusion. That is a false thing, but he has no knowledge. Even President Johnson, he's under illusion. Even the greatest scientist, he's under this illusion. So that, one is sure to commit mistake, and one is under illusion, and bhrama, pramada and vipralambhana... Vipralambhana means the tendency for cheating.

Woman: That is the fourth?

Prabhupada: That is the third. First is that one is sure to commit mistake, one is sure to be in illusion, and one is adapted to cheat others. Now, he is imperfect, but he wants to give knowledge to others. That is cheating. Everyone is imperfect, but he wants to give knowledge to others. Then you can ask that "You are also giving us knowledge?" No, I am not giving you knowledge. I am speaking Bhagavad-gita. I am giving you knowledge as given by Lord Krsna. It is not my knowledge.

Woman: But this is own interpretation.

Prabhupada: Eh? Not interpretation. It is reading.

Woman: One can cheat.

Prabhupada: I give you... Cheat. No, that is also in the definition of a conditioned soul. These four principles are there. It is not my manufactured thing. The, these are information from authoritative scripture, that a conditioned soul has four imperfectness. One imperfectness is that he's sure to commit mistake. He's illusioned, and he has got a tendency to cheat, and, above all, his senses are imperfect. So anyone who is above all these four imperfectness -- who never commits mistake, who is never illusioned, who never cheats others, and who has got perfect senses -- He is God. That is also another definition of God. He may not be... God is Supreme, God, but anyone who comes to this stage of life, he's liberated. He's lib..., as good as God. Yes?

Student: Do you say, eh..? (incomplete) (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.11 -- New York, March 4, 1966

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75/02/11 Mexico, Bhagavad-gita 2.11

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Prabhupada:

sri bhagavan uvaca
asocyan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
nanusocanti panditah
 [Bg. 2.11]

Sri bhagavan uvaca. Bhagavan means the Supreme Being. In the English dictionary when you consult the word God, it is stated there, "the Supreme Being." What is that Supreme Being? We are all living being, but amongst ourself there is comparative, superlative positions. I am here; you are here; he is there. So you may be better than me, he may be better than you, and somebody else may be better than him. In this way you go on searching after one better than the other. When you ultimately come to a point that nobody is better then him, that is Bhagavan.

Bhaga means opulence. So there are six kinds of opulences. One opulence is to become very rich, another opulence is to become very powerful, another opulence is to become very strong, another opulence is to become very famous, another opulence is to become very wise, and another opulence is to become very much renounced. So these six kinds of opulences, when present in the superlative degree, that is Bhagavan. This means, as it is stated in the Vedic literature, na tasya samah adhikas ca drsyate: "Nobody is found equal to Him or greater than Him." In this material world any person you take, next moment you'll find somebody equal to him and somebody greater than him. But the Vedic information is: God means who has no equal and who has no greater person than Him. Actually Bhagavad-gita was spoken by Krsna, and here it is said, bhagavan uvaca. So Bhagavan, the Supreme God, means Krsna. That is the statement in all Vedic literature.

isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
 [Bs. 5.1]

Means that isvara, controller, the supreme controller is Krsna. We are also controller. I control a few people, you control a few men, another control more men, another, more men, or... You can go on. But the supreme controller, who controls everyone, all big controllers, that is Krsna. Therefore, when it is said, bhagavan uvaca, that means the version which is presented herewith was spoken by the supreme controller.

So our process of receiving knowledge is from the supreme controller because, according to the definition already given -- wise, the most wise -- Krsna, or Bhagavan, is the most wise. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the most wise, then there is no flaw. That is our principle, that we are receiving from Krsna, the supreme controller, directly. Just like when there is some misunderstanding, we take help from the law books because in the law book or in the law court, the decision is obligatory to both the parties. So to give knowledge there are many, many parties, but when we receive knowledge from the Supreme, that is all-inclusive. So here Krsna says, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. Arjuna has accepted the guidance of Krsna. He has said previously that "The position is very perplexing. Therefore I accept You as my spiritual master, and You kindly give me enlightenment." This is the process. We should approach the Supreme or the representative of the Supreme, just like the same example: when there is any controversy, we refer to the law book or to the lawyer, or we take the decision of the law court, and that is final.

So here Krsna says to Arjuna that... Because he has accepted the leadership of Krsna, therefore Krsna is chastising him in this way. He is chastising in this way, that Arjuna was talking with Krsna as friends. So friends means equal status, but he gave up that status. He took the status of a disciple. A disciple means who voluntarily agrees to be disciplined by the spiritual master. When one becomes disciple, he cannot disobey the order of the spiritual master. Sisya. Sisya, this word, comes from the root sas-dhatu, means "I accept your ruling." So previously Arjuna has accepted, sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I am now surrendered to You, and I agree voluntarily to accept Your ruling." This is the relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple. So we have got ten kinds of offenses in chanting the Hare Krsna mantra. So the first offense is guror avajna, means to disobey the orders of guru, spiritual master. One cannot disobey the orders of guru. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, although He is Krsna Himself, he also says, guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasana: [Cc. Adi 7.71] "My guru, My spiritual master, saw Me a fool, and therefore he has chastised Me." So therefore Krsna... Because Arjuna has accepted Krsna as guru, therefore He is chastising him that "You are lamenting on a subject matter which is not done by any learned man." That means "You are not a learned man. You are fool." "The learned man does not do like this" -- that means "You are not learned man because you are doing this." So Krsna said that "You... Practically you are not in the knowledge of things. Still, you are lamenting on the bodily concept of life." Anyone who accepts this body as self, he is not only unlearned, but he is compared with the animal. That is the

statement in the Vedic literature,

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
 [SB 10.84.13]

Go means cow, and khara means ass. So anyone who accepts this body as self, he is animal, he is not human being. That is the beginning of knowledge. People are accepting knowledge from a school, college, university, but at the present moment at least, how many people know that he is not body? Unless we understand this first principle of knowledge, there is no question of spiritual advancement of life. So the beginning of Bhagavad-gita is to give lesson that we are not this body. It will be later on explained that the spirit soul, or the real person, is within this body. Just like we are here. We are within this shirt and coat, but we are not the shirt and coat. So if the shirt and coat is stolen and if somebody becomes mad after it and lamenting, that is not very good sense. Therefore He is saying that asocyan anvasocas tvam: [Bg. 2.11] "You are lamenting on the subject matter which is never done by any learned man." So we shall go further on? Yes? Read, you, purport in Spanish. [break]

Hrdayananda: (translating question from Spanish) ...one does not follow the instructions of guru.

Prabhupada: Then he's misguided. A ship without rudder, or without captain. A ship without captain.

Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know why Lord Caitanya is not mentioned in the Bhagavatam with the other incarnations.

Prabhupada: He has not mentioned, but Bhagavata has mentioned. No, you don't bring any other question. You talk about this, which we have lectured. In this way, if you bring other question, that is not... We are discussing one verse. You can put question on this, not irrelevant question. Of course, that is not irrelevant, but not in connection with these verses. So question means in connection with this verse.

Hrdayananda: (translating) How can we understand the guru?

Prabhupada: How do you understand? When you go for treatment to a physician, how do you understand that here is a physician? How do you understand? Tell me?

Hrdayananda: He says by the title and reputation.

Prabhupada: Yes. Some way or other, you know that he is a physician. So similarly, you have to find out guru. Guru... First of all, who requires a guru? That is the question. Because guru is not a fashion... The... It is said in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, tasmad gurum prapadyeta: [SB 11.3.21] "On account of this, you should go to a guru." What is that account? Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam: "One who is very much inquisitive to know about spiritual affair, he requires a guru." Spiritual affair means that... We are in this material world. We are suffering. When the question will come in one's mind, "Why I am suffering?" that is spiritual. Just like an animal is being taken to the slaughterhouse. He cannot inquire, "Why I am being taken to the slaughterhouse?" But if a man is being taken forcibly, he'll protest; he will cry; he'll call crowd. Therefore human being can inquire about spiritual affair. So when there is spiritual inquiry, then one requires a guru. And by going to guru, as it is stated, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. One has to learn by surrendering, pranipata. So first of all there must be a strong impulse to inquire about the transcendental subject matter. Then one requires a guru. Not that, to follow a fashion, that one has guru. Acaryavan puruso veda. Unless one becomes under the control of acarya, he has no perfect knowledge. Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "For understanding that transcendental science, one must approach a guru." And what is the symptom of guru? Samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham: Guru means one who has complete knowledge of Vedic version, and not only that, he is a staunch or fixed-up devotee of the Supreme Lord. These are the qualification. The guru strictly follows the Vedic injunction and teaches the same thing to his disciple. That is guru. So first thing is: one must be inquisitive to understand about the spiritual subject matter. Just like you have come here in this temple. You know that here nothing like political meeting is going on. Here something spiritual matter is being discussed. Therefore you have come. This inclination is the beginning of spiritual life. This is called sraddha. Sraddha means faith.

So this sraddha has to be developed further, and to develop this sraddha, or faith, one has to associate with persons who are keeping with this faith. Therefore it is said, adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah: [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15] "First of all faith, then to associate with persons who are devotees and faithful..." In this way, when further development is done, then atha bhajana-kriya, means the learning the process of devotional service. [break] ...gambling, no meat-eating. These are not wanted. In the beginning of life nobody smokes or nobody becomes intoxicated. It is learned by bad association. Similarly, it can be given up by good association. They are called anarthas. Anartha means unwanted bad habits. So when we are children, innocent, we have no bad habits, but as we grow and associate with bad company, we also acquire all these bad habits. So to give up all these bad habits means we have to associate with sadhus or devotees, saintly persons. Then we can give it up. This is called anartha-nivrtti, means giving up all unwanted bad habits. These things are not wanted. Nobody dies if he does not smoke or drink. Nobody dies. So artificially we learn it, so by good association we can give it up. So when we are purified out of all the bad habits, then we become fixed up in spiritual knowledge. So in this way we make advance in spiritual life, and at the last stage we become lover of God. This is the process, and one who teaches this process, he is guru. This is the definition of guru.

Hrdayananda: (translating)

Prabhupada: I do not know what you said. What he said?

Devotee: Devotee is compassionate to the sufferings of others.

Prabhupada: What is that? I cannot follow.

Paramahamsa: There's a tendency for someone who hears this verse to think that one should become callous to the sufferings of others.

Prabhupada: Where it is?

Paramahamsa: Well, there's a tendency to misunderstand it in that way.

Prabhupada: No, when we are teaching, it is because the people are suffering on account of ignorance. Therefore we are teaching. How we are callous? We are not callous; we are very much sympathetic to give them knowledge. How do you say? The devotees are not callous. Why they are touring all over the world, accepting so much trouble, opposition? Because they are very much sympathetic with the people who are suffering out of ignorance. They are the most sympathetic friend of the human society. So this is not true that they are callous. So any other question?

Hrdayananda: (translating) If we've already committed so many offenses to chanting, now, at this point, how can we purify ourselves?

Prabhupada: If you... You don't commit offense. Why do you voluntarily commit offense? You should not commit offense. Then it will be all right, purified.

Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know how we can increase our desire for sankirtana.

Prabhupada: By performing sankirtana. Just like if a man drinks and if he drinks, drinks, then you become a drunkard. (laughter) Drink more and you become drunkard. Similarly, chant more and you become perfect chanter.

Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know if the greatest offense is to disobey the guru.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the first offense. Guror avajna, sruti-sastra-nindanam. Sruti-sastra-nindanam guror avajna. If you accept guru and again disobey him, then what is your position? You are not a gentleman. You promise before guru, before Krsna, before fire, that "I shall obey your order; I shall execute this," and again you do not do this. Then you are not even a gentleman, what to speak about devotee. This is common sense.

Hrdayananda: (Spanish)

Prabhupada: You cannot understand? What is that?

Hrdayananda: A devotee, how can he control his tongue?

Prabhupada: He can take prasadam. (laughter) Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said like that, ta'ra madhye jihwa ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, ta'ke jeta kathina samsare: "Out of all the senses, the tongue sense is very powerful. So it is very difficult to control it." So he says, ta'ra madhye jihwa ati, lobhamoy sudurmati: "The tongue is very greedy and very difficult to be controlled. Therefore Krsna has given us one weapon." What is that? Krsna baro doyamoy, koribare jihwa jay, swa-prasad-anna dilo bhai: "Krsna is very kind. Therefore He has given us His remnants of foodstuff." So if we make this promise, that "I shall not take anything which is not offered to Krsna," then your tongue will be controlled. And in the sastra it is said that you cannot understand Krsna... Atah sri-krsna-namadi. Not only Krsna, even His name you cannot understand with these imperfect senses.

atah sri-krsna-namadi
na bhaved grahyam indriyaih
sevonmukhe hi jihvadau
svayam eva sphuraty adah
 [Brs. 1.2.234]

 

"But when you engage your tongue in the service of Krsna, then Krsna reveals Himself." So the tongue's business is twofold. One is with tongue we speak -- it vibrates sound -- and another business is with tongue we taste nice foodstuff. So if you engage this tongue in the matter of Krsna's service by vibrating Hare Krsna mantra, and if you don't allow your tongue to touch anything which is not offered to Krsna, then you become immediately Krsna-realized soul. So when the tongue is controlled, all other senses are automatically controlled. This is the process. Now again engage your tongue, chanting Hare Krsna. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.11 (with Spanish translator) -- Mexico, February 11, 1975

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.