Chicago, July 9, 1975
Prabhupada: ...that requires complete overhauling. This religion, that religion will not help. They have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. Everyone is hovering on the mental plane. [break] ...the principle of Ba'hai religion?
Jayatirtha: It was founded in Persia. It's a hodge-podge principle. (Prabhupada laughs)
Jagadisa: They think that everyone is evolving, that after taking this human life, you have to go to heaven. That's the next stage, even if you're the most sinful of all sinners.
Prabhupada: Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go?
Jagadisa: Yes. Because they say that God is all-merciful, therefore...
Prabhupada: You can do whatever you like.
Brahmananda: God becomes the order-supplier.
Jayatirtha: They have a big temple.
Prabhupada: This is Ba'hai temple?
Jagadisa: No, no, it's back the other way.
Jayatirtha: It's much bigger than this building?
Jagadisa: Yes, it's quite a..., very nice. [break] (walking:)
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. Will these people accept this? Hm?
Jayatirtha: They won't like to.
Prabhupada: Then?
Tamala Krsna: By our preaching we have to make them accept it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Actually that's a fact.
Sudama: We have to set an example for them to see.
Prabhupada: What is the example?
Sudama: That this Krsna consciousness, actually it does work, it does make us purified.
Prabhupada: "No. It works with you. It doesn't work with me," he will say. You have to prove that they are animals. How you will prove it?
Tamala Krsna: By showing the activities of the animals and their activities to be the same.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have to judge that "What is the difference between animal's activities and our so-called civilized man's activities?"
Sudama: When you compare them to the animals, then they become insulted.
Prabhupada: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest?" A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So... So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?
Satsvarupa: Many people today are willing to accept that. They say, "Yes, we're animals. We should enjoy our animal nature."
Prabhupada: Yes, so go on enjoying. Then don't talk of this "How, what to do, criminal?" Go on, animal. Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. Why you are trying to avoid criminality? Remain animal. When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? You remain dog. "Why you charge me criminality? I am dog, sir." Tell him. (laughter) Go to the court and say, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog." Why don't you say that? Do you say like that? When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me." Why it is not excused? He is punished, why?
Satsvarupa: The human body means you have responsibility.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they say, "Whatever you do, it is all right." In the human body you cannot do like that. If in the ordinary court it is so strict, so what will be in the court of the God?
Sudama: Just like they have laws, so similarly, Krsna has.
Prabhupada: Well, laws come... Wherefrom the laws come? It comes from Krsna. Janmadyasya yatah. Everything, whatever you see, it has come from God. Otherwise where you get the idea? That is the definition in the Vedanta. Whatever you have experienced, that is coming from God, original idea from God. Janmadyasya yatah. In the Bhagavad-gita the same thing is said, aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg. 10.8]. Whatever you see, you perceive, you experience, the original is from Krsna. (pause) So we shall go? [break] ...them directly that "You are animal." And let him go to the court and we shall prove that he is animal. [break] ...them he is in bodily concept of life, charge him that "You are animal. If you think it is defamation, let us go to the court." [break] ...these isms, nationalism, Communism, socialism, this ism, these are all animalism, nothing but animalism. [break] ...big fish within the water, they are also eating the small fish, and these persons are engaged, the same business.
Tamala Krsna: Like a big fish, bigger fish.
Prabhupada: Big fish is expert. He can go within the water and eat. He has to make some tackle. He is less than fish. (laughter)
Tamala Krsna: After catching, he eats it.
Prabhupada: No, the fish immediately. He has to cook, he has to..., another thing. That means it is not his food. Artificially, he is eating. [break] ...has taken this photograph?
Brahmananda: Yes, she did yesterday. [break]
Devotee (1): ...why do some of them carry these sticks.
Prabhupada: Sticks?
Tripurari: Danda.
Prabhupada: To drive away dogs. (laughter) [break]
Jayatirtha: The 400,000 different species of human life? There's one place in which you mention that different persons like carpenter or different tradesmen are different species. Is that...?
Prabhupada: No, no.
Jayatirtha: What's the...
Prabhupada: That is division. Varna, that is called varna.
Jayatirtha: So that has nothing to do with species. Species is like Negro or...
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Jayatirtha: ...gods are also included in this human species.
Prabhupada: Different types of... Kinnara, 400,000.
Brahmananda: Also different planets?
Prabhupada: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. [break] ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. [break] This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore pandita is sama-darsinah, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. [break] They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param. Hare Krsna. Jaya. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago
Monday, April 26, 2010
Sunday, April 25, 2010
"Very Expert In Misinterpreting"
Mayapura, April 2, 1975
Pancadravida: ...take the chemicals and combine them together in a test tube so that a soul can enter into that and...
Prabhupada: God is not your father's servant, that He will arrange to bring the soul. You are God's servant.
Pancadravida: So you're... Cannot be done, then?
Prabhupada: No. If you bring, you can bring soul by some arrangement, then we shall think that you are better than God. But you are rascal. You are thinking like that. You cannot do that. God will not agree to send a soul to your arrangement. You should always remember that you are servant of God. God is not your servant. That is knowledge. [Break]
Gurudasa: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: I just wanted to ask that question.
Prabhupada: Thank you. Don't try to make God your servant. That is foolishness. You must always agree that "I am servant of God."
Pancadravida: Because in the class that... I asked that question because we're saying, well, there's no question of creating life. We're agreeing that the soul already exists. But can the scientists... If a scientist claims he'll create the conditions in which a soul will enter, do we accept that premise, and I thought, "No, because that's giving them much too much ground," that if we say that, then by their definition, they can say, "I am creating life. I don't want to argue over the existence or not of the soul, but I'll arrange all the chemicals for you."
Prabhupada: Where is that chemist? Where is that chemical combination that, I mean to say, grows a soul, generate a soul? Even if you have got the chemicals, you cannot do it.
Pancadravida: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.
Prabhupada: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?
Pancadravida: Well, they say the credit is that "We are doing these things in the laboratory without the presence of the soul. They are not being produced by any living organism."
Prabhupada: :Eh?
Pancadravida: "They are not being produced by any living organism."
Prabhupada: No, no. That is your, your foolishness. Living organism is there. Just like we find something... The same argument, vrscika-tandula-nyaya: "Vrscika, the scorpion, is coming out of the heaps of rice." That... It does not mean the rice is produced the scorpion. That is foolishness. Rice, the heaps of rice, it does not create any scorpion. We have to get down here?
Tamal-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Four sources of life: anda-ja, udbhi-ja, jarayu-ja and sveda-ja. Sveda-ja. The sveda-ja means just like these bugs. Wherefrom the bugs in the bed come? Is there any laboratory arrangement?
Pancadravida: No.
Prabhupada: So why these rascals do not understand? The bugs come from the perspiration. So in the perspiration, there is all chemicals, and the bug is coming. Now, where is their chemical? Who has put here chemical? This grass is coming. How it is coming? It is so...
Pancadravida: The chemicals are coming from the perspiration.
Prabhupada: No, no. That is another.
Pusta-krsna: Seed.
Prabhupada: There, that the, this grass is coming out of the earth. Wherefrom it is coming? Who has put the chemicals? And the eggs of the birds, they are produced in the womb of the birds, and from there the life is coming, the bird is coming. Where is the chemical?
Pancadravida: Well, that's just a complex chemical reaction. We can't explain it yet...
Prabhupada: But "Can't explain" -- that means you are fool. You remain fool. Don't try to expose yourself, nonsense. You are a rascal number one; you remain rascal number one. When the neck is caught up, he says, "Yes, it is complex. We shall see in the future." Why "future?" What about now?
Pancadravida: Well, a hundred years ago we couldn't make this movie camera either. But now they are producing easily.
Prabhupada: That's all right. But you cannot do this business. This is an art. Hundred years ago, people could not produce electricity by mixing two wire.
Pancadravida: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is an art. It is artist's... What is called? Craftmanship. Hundred years, could not produce motor car. But that does not mean you have become God, you rascal.
Pancadravida: :Well, isn't God just a craftsman also? He's just an...
Prabhupada: Yes, He is everything. He's everything -- but not a fool like you. That's all.
Madhudvisa: Srila Prabhupada, is there a jiva, is there a spirit soul in every sperm cell, or does that...? Does the spirit soul only come to a particular sperm cell, or is there one in every sperm cell, and the condition isn't right, so then it dies before, I mean, it leaves before it actually forms a body?
Prabhupada: Yes. The sperm, generally in every sperm there is spirit soul. But sometimes we put checks. The contraceptive method means putting check. Just like you pollute the milk. Then it loses his strength. So similarly, there are other circumstances which checks the sperm to inject soul. [Break] ...exposing themselves that they are rascal number one. That's all.
Pusta Krsna: It's a little slippery, Prabhupada. We'll go around here.
Sruta-kirti: It's all right here.
Prabhupada: I'll do. Mudhas. They are mudhas, means rascals, and they're exposing more and more that yes, they are mudhas. And another set of rascals, what is called, recognizing that "Yes, take this degree." Avyapare suvyaparam yo narah kartum icchati sa mudhah hanyate 'khilotpad iva vanarah.(?) Vanara means monkey. Monkey... One monkey... there was a woodcutter. What is called, woodcutter?
Paramahamsa: Carpenter.
Devotee: Lumberjack.
Prabhupada: Eh? Lumber...?
Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.
Pancadravida: Cuts trees?
Prabhupada: No, no. Formerly, with saw, they used to make planks from big, big... What is that?
Madhudvisa: Sawmill?
Sruta-kirti: Carpenter.
Prabhupada: Not... Sawmill is now. Formerly they were doing it-hand.
Pancadravida: Carpenter.
Prabhupada: Not carpenter. All right, the man who used to bifurcate the big, big planks, and after finishing the business, he would put one, what is called, plug so that it may not again come...
Pusta Krsna: Join.
Prabhupada: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body -- "Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Madhudvisa: So couldn't the scientists say that it's God's will that when, when there is a...
Prabhupada: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?
Madhudvisa: They say, "uncivilized."
Prabhupada: Eh? Uncivilized. And they are..., he was producing the soul, man? They're uncivilized? This, such nice... That is another exposal of their rascaldom.
Madhudvisa: They say modern man is living much more comfortably than he did two hundred years ago.
Prabhupada: Yes.
madhu: This is our advancement.
Prabhupada: What is that comfortable? What is the comfort? Give me the example of comfort?
Trivikrama: Air conditioning.
Brahmananda: Music
Madhudvisa: Cameras.
Pancadravida: Tape recorders.
Prabhupada: (Chuckles) These are comfortable?
Madhudvisa: Automobiles. Aeroplanes.
Pancadravida: Well, they enable comfort. A person can lie down in his comfortable bed in his nice apartment and listen to music out of the wall.
Prabhupada: But what about his death, how he uncomfortably dying?
Pancadravida: Well, we can't change that.
Prabhupada: Then what you can change?
Visnujana: But they can give you drugs to make death so that you don't feel it.
Madhudvisa: Yeah, you can die in your sleep.
Prabhupada: That is, means another death. You check death by death. That's all. These are all rascals. You are not yet convinced that these, they are rascals. That is your defect.
Pancadravida: I went to see my grandfather when he was dying. They said, "We have a nice arrangement. He's going to die in two weeks. Don't tell him. He'll die peacefully in his sleep." That was their arrangement.
Prabhupada: Coma.
Pusta Krsna: Many of the scientists actually believe in God, and they think that by experimentation, they'll come to understand God more and more.
Prabhupada: That is another thing. That we admire, that you are trying to understand God. But there is no God, and they are becoming God -- that is nonsense.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Ramesvara: Some people say that Darwin was paid by the British...
Prabhupada: Yes, I said.
Ramesvara: ...to make propaganda.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: Against religion.
Prabhupada: Not against religion. Against Indian culture.
Ramesvara: Against Indian cultu...
Prabhupada: Yes. Britishers made so many attempts that "Indians were uncivilized, and we have come here to make them civilized."
Ramesvara: So for colonialism.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book -- "Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.
Madhudvisa: Is that where that name came from, "Uncle Sam"?
Prabhupada: Uncle Sam is the American word?
Trivikrama: Yes, yes.
Pancadravida: No.
Prabhupada: And he described the American life in so, mean, badly.
Pancadravida: Is there any...
Prabhupada: And Gandhi said, "This Mother India is the drain inspector's report."
Tamal-krsna: The drain inspectors?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Krsna consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise -- everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said that dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."
Trivikrama: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is cheating system. Once Christ advised that you, you should not act sinfully, and then he takes contract for all your sinful life. How cheating it is, directly cheating.
Pancadravida: Who was cheating?
Prabhupada: These so-called Christians. They say that "We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That's all."
Trivikrama: "So let us go on sinning."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pancadravida: Kill him again.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: "Yes, homosex is all right." Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You'll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kali that "We are eating Mother Kali's prasada." That's it. This is going on.
Brahmananda: Kali eats meat.
Prabhupada: Kali does not eat meat, but it is the sastra's injunction that those who are unable to give up meat-eating, they may sacrifice one goat, not cow, one small animal before the goddess Kali, on amavasya (new moon) day, night, not day, and they can eat it.
Pancadravida: If it's offered, though, who accepts it? Whose prasadam is it? Who takes it?
Prabhupada: The prasadam is not... That meat is not taken by Kali, but it is taken by the witches and others, associates of Kali.
Brahmananda: In Srimad-Bhagavatam, you write that goddess Kali takes the prasadam of her husband, Lord Siva.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: So therefore she is vegetarian.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: You were talking about enviousness, Srila Prabhupada. And we see that this even sometimes pervades in our own society.
Prabhupada: Because you have, you are not yet perfect. That means. You are not yet perfect. You are trying to be perfect. Now be perfect.
Madhudvisa: Is there a way, is there a specific way to counteract this bad quality of enviousness?
Prabhupada: And yes, just chant Hare Krsna. Cleanse your mind. All dirty things will go. Because you neglect to chant regularly, therefore the dirty things remain.
Pancadravida: One devotee was talking with a Mayavadi sannyasi, famous sannyasi. So he said that "Your desire to attain mukti, that is a material desire."
Prabhupada: No, we don't want mukti.
Pancadravida: Yes. So...
Prabhupada: Mukti flatters me: "Please accept me." We don't want mukti.
Pancadravida: So the devotee went on, "To want to become one with the Lord, that is material desire." So the Mayavadi, he answered, he said, "No, to want to remain separate from the Lord and enjoy rasa, or exchange, with Him, that is also material desire. Because you want to stay two, God and you, so you can be separate just so you can enjoy an exchange. That is also a desire."
Prabhupada: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Krsna. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ananda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhih [Bs. 5.37]. That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Mayavadi's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritamrta, the radha-krsna-pranaya-vikrtiv hladini-saktir asmat. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gita, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyah [Bg. 8.20], "which is sanatana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish. But there, there is no question of finishing. Increasing. Anandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing. Harer nama... [Break]...in reality, "what I am," that can be understood through devotional service, not by karma, jnana, yoga. But... Give this example, I mean to say, authoritative statement of Krsna, that bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55].
Pancadravida: I didn't speak with him. Another devotee did.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: Another devotee spoke with this person.
Prabhupada: So what is your answer, that you cannot understand Krsna, as Krsna says, without bhakti.
Pancadravida: Well, we're.... They might answer that that's all right for understanding Krsna, but the highest state is to merge with God, and then there's no more living entity, no more God. Everything becomes one.
Prabhupada: That means you have become more than Krsna. One who states like that, he has become more than Krsna.
Visnujana: Yes, they believe that.
Pancadravida: Not more than Krsna. Same as Krsna.
Prabhupada: Oh, he's not... He does not know what is Krsna. Krsna says that "My dear Arjuna, you, Me, and all these soldiers, they existed before, and they're existing now, and they will exist in the future." So where is merging? Merging is suiciding. It is a spiritual suicide. Disgusted with these material affairs... Just like sometimes a man, being disgusted with this material world, he commits suicide, so this merging is also a kind of suicide.
Pancadravida: But Brahman always exists.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: Brahman always exists. We're not, we're not saying that Brahman stops existing. So these, the living entities...
Prabhupada: Yes, again they will come.
Pancadravida: They're all Brahman. So they will continue to exist. Brahman doesn't stop existing.
Prabhupada: Everything exists. For the time being, he may merge; then again he'll come to enjoy this material body. Aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanty adhah. Patanty adhah. Even they become merged into the existence of Brahman, again they come back because there is no asraya. Just like these air, airplanes or the jets. They have invented very good machine, eighteen thousand miles per hour, going very high, but there is no place. They come down again. That is a fact. What is the use of going so high, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and travel and then again come back. Why do you take unnecessary trouble if you cannot stay there? You migrated from Europe and other countries to America. You got shelter. You stayed there. That colonization was successful. But if you are going to colonize in the moon and there is no place to stay, then why you are spending so much money unnecessarily? What is this foolishness? And they have stopped now. So in this way they are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but where to stay? They can stay in the Brahman effulgence as minute particle of soul, but the soul wants ananda, then again -- "It was better to live in the material world." They come back again. That is statement of the sastra. Aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanty adhah. They may go very high, same way as the jets are going, but there is no shelter. Shelter is the lotus feet of Krsna. So without shelter, they cannot remain there, and because by nature he wants ananda... Suppose if you remain in the sky for many, many years, would you feel very comfortable? Then you have to come back again. What is the use of being falsely proud -- "Now we have invented the machine. We can go eighteen thousand miles per hour and up in the sky"? That's all right, but what is the benefit out of it? Without ananda, without society, friendship and love, you cannot be happy in the vacant sky. Then you'll have to seek again -- "Give me some shelter. It is all false."
Madhudvisa: Srila Prabhupada, a question arose the other day in class if there was a difference between Brahman-realized yogi and a Mayavadi.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Madhudvisa: Someone like the Kumaras... Were the Kumaras, before they became attracted to Visnu, were they Mayavadis?
Prabhupada: Not Mayavadis.
Trivikrama: Impersonalists.
Prabhupada: Impersonalists.
Madhudvisa: What is the difference between an impersonalist and a Mayavadi?
Prabhupada: Very little difference, but still, there is difference.
Trivikrama: Mayavadis are offenders.
Prabhupada: Mayavadis means they are speaking that "Everything is maya; Krsna is also maya." And impersonalist means they are thinking that "To merge into the Brahman effulgence is better than to keep our personal identity."
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, this Professor Dimmock was going to arrange a Vaisnava conference at which we were going to attend. You yourself was going to be invited with many professors, but I received a report from one of the professors that when they tried to contact other professors, none of them wanted to come because they said, more or less, that we are like fanatics and we wouldn't actually discuss things in a philosophic way, that we would just use the conference to proselytize. So in this way, they're rejecting us from...
Prabhupada: What is the harm? Let them reject.
Satsvarupa: We don't need them.
Prabhupada: Our business will go on, and there will be many professor Dimmocks who will support us. And they are doing that.
Satsvarupa: We're not going to compromise to...
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: ...please them.
Pancadravida: This Professor Dimmock, he still supported us?
Satsvarupa: Yes, he... [Break]
Prabhupada: The Bhagavad-gita is read all over the world. So we can better talk on the principles of Bhagavad-gita. Our philosophy is we present Bhagavad-gita as it is, without malinterpretation. So we want to defy everyone who is malinterpreting Bhagavad-gita. So we have to follow the authorities. And Bhagavad-gita is accepted as authority. Otherwise, why they're reading so widely all over the world Bhagavad-gita? Why not come on this term? Why you catch up so many literature? If, on this basis, there is a conference, that will be profitable, that "If you accept Bhagavad-gita as authority or one of the authorities, so you cannot misinterpret the statement in the Bhagavad-gita." But the Westerners, they are very expert in misinterpreting even their own Bible. We say that if you interpret any sastra, either Bible or Bhagavad-gita, then it is no more sastra. It is your play toy. By so-called your rascal vote, without any reason and rhythm and rhyme, you can do everything.
Pusta Krsna: They sometimes say that because Bhagavad-gita was originally in the Sanskrit language...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: ...and that because now it's been translated into the English language, there is necessary interpretation.
Prabhupada: No. Therefore we are giving the original verse, word to word meaning.
Pancadravida: Some, some man argued that...
Prabhupada: Where is the interpretation necessary?
Satsvarupa: They say we interpret even in the word to word.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: They claim that we interpret even in word to word.
Prabhupada: But how do you do? Just like dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. Interpret in different way this word, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre? It cannot be interpreted. And how do you dare to say that "We can interpret word to word." In the beginning, you cannot do it.
Pancadravida: They clam, then, unless you speak Sanskrit, you have to interpret Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: No, that means if you are a nonsense, you better remain silent. Don't interpret. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense. What is the meaning of that interpretation. If you do not know Sanskrit, stop speaking. Why do you make imagination?
Pancadravida: Well, their claim is you have to read the Gita in Sanskrit in order for it to be read as it is.
Prabhupada: Now, now, in the very beginning it is said, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. Now interpret. What is your interpretation, dharma-ksetre? What is your interpretation, kuru-ksetre? Come on, in the beginning. They cannot interpret anything.
Santosa: In that verse, aparyaptam bhimabhiraksitam...
Prabhupada: Eh? Eh?
Santosa: That verse, aparyaptam bhimabhiraksitam.
Prabhupada: Yes?
Santosa: They make so many interpretations of that word, aparyaptam.
Prabhupada: How they can...? Aparya... It is... The other party says that "Bhima is not so expert fighter." He was speaking to Bhismadeva that "You are so nice, expert commander. Bhima is not so expert commander. Therefore even they have got some soldiers, they'll not be properly guided." This is the real meaning. How you can interpret? What is their interpretation?
Pusta Krsna: They are simply making excuses.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: But in the end they'll have to surrender to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur
Pancadravida: ...take the chemicals and combine them together in a test tube so that a soul can enter into that and...
Prabhupada: God is not your father's servant, that He will arrange to bring the soul. You are God's servant.
Pancadravida: So you're... Cannot be done, then?
Prabhupada: No. If you bring, you can bring soul by some arrangement, then we shall think that you are better than God. But you are rascal. You are thinking like that. You cannot do that. God will not agree to send a soul to your arrangement. You should always remember that you are servant of God. God is not your servant. That is knowledge. [Break]
Gurudasa: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: I just wanted to ask that question.
Prabhupada: Thank you. Don't try to make God your servant. That is foolishness. You must always agree that "I am servant of God."
Pancadravida: Because in the class that... I asked that question because we're saying, well, there's no question of creating life. We're agreeing that the soul already exists. But can the scientists... If a scientist claims he'll create the conditions in which a soul will enter, do we accept that premise, and I thought, "No, because that's giving them much too much ground," that if we say that, then by their definition, they can say, "I am creating life. I don't want to argue over the existence or not of the soul, but I'll arrange all the chemicals for you."
Prabhupada: Where is that chemist? Where is that chemical combination that, I mean to say, grows a soul, generate a soul? Even if you have got the chemicals, you cannot do it.
Pancadravida: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.
Prabhupada: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?
Pancadravida: Well, they say the credit is that "We are doing these things in the laboratory without the presence of the soul. They are not being produced by any living organism."
Prabhupada: :Eh?
Pancadravida: "They are not being produced by any living organism."
Prabhupada: No, no. That is your, your foolishness. Living organism is there. Just like we find something... The same argument, vrscika-tandula-nyaya: "Vrscika, the scorpion, is coming out of the heaps of rice." That... It does not mean the rice is produced the scorpion. That is foolishness. Rice, the heaps of rice, it does not create any scorpion. We have to get down here?
Tamal-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Four sources of life: anda-ja, udbhi-ja, jarayu-ja and sveda-ja. Sveda-ja. The sveda-ja means just like these bugs. Wherefrom the bugs in the bed come? Is there any laboratory arrangement?
Pancadravida: No.
Prabhupada: So why these rascals do not understand? The bugs come from the perspiration. So in the perspiration, there is all chemicals, and the bug is coming. Now, where is their chemical? Who has put here chemical? This grass is coming. How it is coming? It is so...
Pancadravida: The chemicals are coming from the perspiration.
Prabhupada: No, no. That is another.
Pusta-krsna: Seed.
Prabhupada: There, that the, this grass is coming out of the earth. Wherefrom it is coming? Who has put the chemicals? And the eggs of the birds, they are produced in the womb of the birds, and from there the life is coming, the bird is coming. Where is the chemical?
Pancadravida: Well, that's just a complex chemical reaction. We can't explain it yet...
Prabhupada: But "Can't explain" -- that means you are fool. You remain fool. Don't try to expose yourself, nonsense. You are a rascal number one; you remain rascal number one. When the neck is caught up, he says, "Yes, it is complex. We shall see in the future." Why "future?" What about now?
Pancadravida: Well, a hundred years ago we couldn't make this movie camera either. But now they are producing easily.
Prabhupada: That's all right. But you cannot do this business. This is an art. Hundred years ago, people could not produce electricity by mixing two wire.
Pancadravida: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is an art. It is artist's... What is called? Craftmanship. Hundred years, could not produce motor car. But that does not mean you have become God, you rascal.
Pancadravida: :Well, isn't God just a craftsman also? He's just an...
Prabhupada: Yes, He is everything. He's everything -- but not a fool like you. That's all.
Madhudvisa: Srila Prabhupada, is there a jiva, is there a spirit soul in every sperm cell, or does that...? Does the spirit soul only come to a particular sperm cell, or is there one in every sperm cell, and the condition isn't right, so then it dies before, I mean, it leaves before it actually forms a body?
Prabhupada: Yes. The sperm, generally in every sperm there is spirit soul. But sometimes we put checks. The contraceptive method means putting check. Just like you pollute the milk. Then it loses his strength. So similarly, there are other circumstances which checks the sperm to inject soul. [Break] ...exposing themselves that they are rascal number one. That's all.
Pusta Krsna: It's a little slippery, Prabhupada. We'll go around here.
Sruta-kirti: It's all right here.
Prabhupada: I'll do. Mudhas. They are mudhas, means rascals, and they're exposing more and more that yes, they are mudhas. And another set of rascals, what is called, recognizing that "Yes, take this degree." Avyapare suvyaparam yo narah kartum icchati sa mudhah hanyate 'khilotpad iva vanarah.(?) Vanara means monkey. Monkey... One monkey... there was a woodcutter. What is called, woodcutter?
Paramahamsa: Carpenter.
Devotee: Lumberjack.
Prabhupada: Eh? Lumber...?
Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.
Pancadravida: Cuts trees?
Prabhupada: No, no. Formerly, with saw, they used to make planks from big, big... What is that?
Madhudvisa: Sawmill?
Sruta-kirti: Carpenter.
Prabhupada: Not... Sawmill is now. Formerly they were doing it-hand.
Pancadravida: Carpenter.
Prabhupada: Not carpenter. All right, the man who used to bifurcate the big, big planks, and after finishing the business, he would put one, what is called, plug so that it may not again come...
Pusta Krsna: Join.
Prabhupada: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body -- "Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Madhudvisa: So couldn't the scientists say that it's God's will that when, when there is a...
Prabhupada: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?
Madhudvisa: They say, "uncivilized."
Prabhupada: Eh? Uncivilized. And they are..., he was producing the soul, man? They're uncivilized? This, such nice... That is another exposal of their rascaldom.
Madhudvisa: They say modern man is living much more comfortably than he did two hundred years ago.
Prabhupada: Yes.
madhu: This is our advancement.
Prabhupada: What is that comfortable? What is the comfort? Give me the example of comfort?
Trivikrama: Air conditioning.
Brahmananda: Music
Madhudvisa: Cameras.
Pancadravida: Tape recorders.
Prabhupada: (Chuckles) These are comfortable?
Madhudvisa: Automobiles. Aeroplanes.
Pancadravida: Well, they enable comfort. A person can lie down in his comfortable bed in his nice apartment and listen to music out of the wall.
Prabhupada: But what about his death, how he uncomfortably dying?
Pancadravida: Well, we can't change that.
Prabhupada: Then what you can change?
Visnujana: But they can give you drugs to make death so that you don't feel it.
Madhudvisa: Yeah, you can die in your sleep.
Prabhupada: That is, means another death. You check death by death. That's all. These are all rascals. You are not yet convinced that these, they are rascals. That is your defect.
Pancadravida: I went to see my grandfather when he was dying. They said, "We have a nice arrangement. He's going to die in two weeks. Don't tell him. He'll die peacefully in his sleep." That was their arrangement.
Prabhupada: Coma.
Pusta Krsna: Many of the scientists actually believe in God, and they think that by experimentation, they'll come to understand God more and more.
Prabhupada: That is another thing. That we admire, that you are trying to understand God. But there is no God, and they are becoming God -- that is nonsense.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Ramesvara: Some people say that Darwin was paid by the British...
Prabhupada: Yes, I said.
Ramesvara: ...to make propaganda.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: Against religion.
Prabhupada: Not against religion. Against Indian culture.
Ramesvara: Against Indian cultu...
Prabhupada: Yes. Britishers made so many attempts that "Indians were uncivilized, and we have come here to make them civilized."
Ramesvara: So for colonialism.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book -- "Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.
Madhudvisa: Is that where that name came from, "Uncle Sam"?
Prabhupada: Uncle Sam is the American word?
Trivikrama: Yes, yes.
Pancadravida: No.
Prabhupada: And he described the American life in so, mean, badly.
Pancadravida: Is there any...
Prabhupada: And Gandhi said, "This Mother India is the drain inspector's report."
Tamal-krsna: The drain inspectors?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Krsna consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise -- everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said that dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."
Trivikrama: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is cheating system. Once Christ advised that you, you should not act sinfully, and then he takes contract for all your sinful life. How cheating it is, directly cheating.
Pancadravida: Who was cheating?
Prabhupada: These so-called Christians. They say that "We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That's all."
Trivikrama: "So let us go on sinning."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pancadravida: Kill him again.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: "Yes, homosex is all right." Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You'll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kali that "We are eating Mother Kali's prasada." That's it. This is going on.
Brahmananda: Kali eats meat.
Prabhupada: Kali does not eat meat, but it is the sastra's injunction that those who are unable to give up meat-eating, they may sacrifice one goat, not cow, one small animal before the goddess Kali, on amavasya (new moon) day, night, not day, and they can eat it.
Pancadravida: If it's offered, though, who accepts it? Whose prasadam is it? Who takes it?
Prabhupada: The prasadam is not... That meat is not taken by Kali, but it is taken by the witches and others, associates of Kali.
Brahmananda: In Srimad-Bhagavatam, you write that goddess Kali takes the prasadam of her husband, Lord Siva.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: So therefore she is vegetarian.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: You were talking about enviousness, Srila Prabhupada. And we see that this even sometimes pervades in our own society.
Prabhupada: Because you have, you are not yet perfect. That means. You are not yet perfect. You are trying to be perfect. Now be perfect.
Madhudvisa: Is there a way, is there a specific way to counteract this bad quality of enviousness?
Prabhupada: And yes, just chant Hare Krsna. Cleanse your mind. All dirty things will go. Because you neglect to chant regularly, therefore the dirty things remain.
Pancadravida: One devotee was talking with a Mayavadi sannyasi, famous sannyasi. So he said that "Your desire to attain mukti, that is a material desire."
Prabhupada: No, we don't want mukti.
Pancadravida: Yes. So...
Prabhupada: Mukti flatters me: "Please accept me." We don't want mukti.
Pancadravida: So the devotee went on, "To want to become one with the Lord, that is material desire." So the Mayavadi, he answered, he said, "No, to want to remain separate from the Lord and enjoy rasa, or exchange, with Him, that is also material desire. Because you want to stay two, God and you, so you can be separate just so you can enjoy an exchange. That is also a desire."
Prabhupada: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Krsna. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ananda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhih [Bs. 5.37]. That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Mayavadi's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritamrta, the radha-krsna-pranaya-vikrtiv hladini-saktir asmat. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gita, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyah [Bg. 8.20], "which is sanatana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish. But there, there is no question of finishing. Increasing. Anandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing. Harer nama... [Break]...in reality, "what I am," that can be understood through devotional service, not by karma, jnana, yoga. But... Give this example, I mean to say, authoritative statement of Krsna, that bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55].
Pancadravida: I didn't speak with him. Another devotee did.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: Another devotee spoke with this person.
Prabhupada: So what is your answer, that you cannot understand Krsna, as Krsna says, without bhakti.
Pancadravida: Well, we're.... They might answer that that's all right for understanding Krsna, but the highest state is to merge with God, and then there's no more living entity, no more God. Everything becomes one.
Prabhupada: That means you have become more than Krsna. One who states like that, he has become more than Krsna.
Visnujana: Yes, they believe that.
Pancadravida: Not more than Krsna. Same as Krsna.
Prabhupada: Oh, he's not... He does not know what is Krsna. Krsna says that "My dear Arjuna, you, Me, and all these soldiers, they existed before, and they're existing now, and they will exist in the future." So where is merging? Merging is suiciding. It is a spiritual suicide. Disgusted with these material affairs... Just like sometimes a man, being disgusted with this material world, he commits suicide, so this merging is also a kind of suicide.
Pancadravida: But Brahman always exists.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: Brahman always exists. We're not, we're not saying that Brahman stops existing. So these, the living entities...
Prabhupada: Yes, again they will come.
Pancadravida: They're all Brahman. So they will continue to exist. Brahman doesn't stop existing.
Prabhupada: Everything exists. For the time being, he may merge; then again he'll come to enjoy this material body. Aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanty adhah. Patanty adhah. Even they become merged into the existence of Brahman, again they come back because there is no asraya. Just like these air, airplanes or the jets. They have invented very good machine, eighteen thousand miles per hour, going very high, but there is no place. They come down again. That is a fact. What is the use of going so high, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and travel and then again come back. Why do you take unnecessary trouble if you cannot stay there? You migrated from Europe and other countries to America. You got shelter. You stayed there. That colonization was successful. But if you are going to colonize in the moon and there is no place to stay, then why you are spending so much money unnecessarily? What is this foolishness? And they have stopped now. So in this way they are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but where to stay? They can stay in the Brahman effulgence as minute particle of soul, but the soul wants ananda, then again -- "It was better to live in the material world." They come back again. That is statement of the sastra. Aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanty adhah. They may go very high, same way as the jets are going, but there is no shelter. Shelter is the lotus feet of Krsna. So without shelter, they cannot remain there, and because by nature he wants ananda... Suppose if you remain in the sky for many, many years, would you feel very comfortable? Then you have to come back again. What is the use of being falsely proud -- "Now we have invented the machine. We can go eighteen thousand miles per hour and up in the sky"? That's all right, but what is the benefit out of it? Without ananda, without society, friendship and love, you cannot be happy in the vacant sky. Then you'll have to seek again -- "Give me some shelter. It is all false."
Madhudvisa: Srila Prabhupada, a question arose the other day in class if there was a difference between Brahman-realized yogi and a Mayavadi.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Madhudvisa: Someone like the Kumaras... Were the Kumaras, before they became attracted to Visnu, were they Mayavadis?
Prabhupada: Not Mayavadis.
Trivikrama: Impersonalists.
Prabhupada: Impersonalists.
Madhudvisa: What is the difference between an impersonalist and a Mayavadi?
Prabhupada: Very little difference, but still, there is difference.
Trivikrama: Mayavadis are offenders.
Prabhupada: Mayavadis means they are speaking that "Everything is maya; Krsna is also maya." And impersonalist means they are thinking that "To merge into the Brahman effulgence is better than to keep our personal identity."
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, this Professor Dimmock was going to arrange a Vaisnava conference at which we were going to attend. You yourself was going to be invited with many professors, but I received a report from one of the professors that when they tried to contact other professors, none of them wanted to come because they said, more or less, that we are like fanatics and we wouldn't actually discuss things in a philosophic way, that we would just use the conference to proselytize. So in this way, they're rejecting us from...
Prabhupada: What is the harm? Let them reject.
Satsvarupa: We don't need them.
Prabhupada: Our business will go on, and there will be many professor Dimmocks who will support us. And they are doing that.
Satsvarupa: We're not going to compromise to...
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: ...please them.
Pancadravida: This Professor Dimmock, he still supported us?
Satsvarupa: Yes, he... [Break]
Prabhupada: The Bhagavad-gita is read all over the world. So we can better talk on the principles of Bhagavad-gita. Our philosophy is we present Bhagavad-gita as it is, without malinterpretation. So we want to defy everyone who is malinterpreting Bhagavad-gita. So we have to follow the authorities. And Bhagavad-gita is accepted as authority. Otherwise, why they're reading so widely all over the world Bhagavad-gita? Why not come on this term? Why you catch up so many literature? If, on this basis, there is a conference, that will be profitable, that "If you accept Bhagavad-gita as authority or one of the authorities, so you cannot misinterpret the statement in the Bhagavad-gita." But the Westerners, they are very expert in misinterpreting even their own Bible. We say that if you interpret any sastra, either Bible or Bhagavad-gita, then it is no more sastra. It is your play toy. By so-called your rascal vote, without any reason and rhythm and rhyme, you can do everything.
Pusta Krsna: They sometimes say that because Bhagavad-gita was originally in the Sanskrit language...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: ...and that because now it's been translated into the English language, there is necessary interpretation.
Prabhupada: No. Therefore we are giving the original verse, word to word meaning.
Pancadravida: Some, some man argued that...
Prabhupada: Where is the interpretation necessary?
Satsvarupa: They say we interpret even in the word to word.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: They claim that we interpret even in word to word.
Prabhupada: But how do you do? Just like dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. Interpret in different way this word, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre? It cannot be interpreted. And how do you dare to say that "We can interpret word to word." In the beginning, you cannot do it.
Pancadravida: They clam, then, unless you speak Sanskrit, you have to interpret Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: No, that means if you are a nonsense, you better remain silent. Don't interpret. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense. What is the meaning of that interpretation. If you do not know Sanskrit, stop speaking. Why do you make imagination?
Pancadravida: Well, their claim is you have to read the Gita in Sanskrit in order for it to be read as it is.
Prabhupada: Now, now, in the very beginning it is said, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. Now interpret. What is your interpretation, dharma-ksetre? What is your interpretation, kuru-ksetre? Come on, in the beginning. They cannot interpret anything.
Santosa: In that verse, aparyaptam bhimabhiraksitam...
Prabhupada: Eh? Eh?
Santosa: That verse, aparyaptam bhimabhiraksitam.
Prabhupada: Yes?
Santosa: They make so many interpretations of that word, aparyaptam.
Prabhupada: How they can...? Aparya... It is... The other party says that "Bhima is not so expert fighter." He was speaking to Bhismadeva that "You are so nice, expert commander. Bhima is not so expert commander. Therefore even they have got some soldiers, they'll not be properly guided." This is the real meaning. How you can interpret? What is their interpretation?
Pusta Krsna: They are simply making excuses.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: But in the end they'll have to surrender to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur
Saturday, April 24, 2010
"This World Is Good Then Stay!"
Denver, July 3, 1975
Prabhupada: ...July 3rd, July 4th not the same body.
Kurusrestha: Still, they will say that there's still no reason...
Prabhupada: They will say so many nonsense. Who is going to take it? They are rejected as nonsense. Anyone who is a speculator, he is a nonsense because he has no standard knowledge. Next day they will say, "Oh, no, this is not. This is." They are doing that. That is not knowledge. [break]
Devotee (1): We were discussing in Bhagavad-gita class last night that during our life we are changing our bodies so many different times, and at the time of death we are also changing our body to another body.
Prabhupada: Yes, you get another body.
Devotee (1): What is the difference of changing our body during our lifetime and at death?
Prabhupada: This is... I have said many times. Just like you are using this shirt, and it is not usable, you throw it and again accept another. [break] ...understand this is a difficult problem. (laughs) [break]
Ambarisa: ...second we are dying.
Prabhupada: Yes. Dying means changing body, that's all.
Ambarisa: So we're changing bodies all the time.
Prabhupada: It is going on. You will find it. A creeper is growing. Today she, it is, leaf has grown so much, and next moment you'll see, it has grown so much.
Yadubara: [break] ...that asparagus that you eat, Srila Prabhupada. That will grow two inches in one night.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yadubara: Very quickly. [break]
Kurusrestha: ...the same body, but just the parts are changing. They say that it's not actually the whole body that's changing, but just you're changing parts like...
Prabhupada: That is nonsense. "Parts are changing, the body is not changing." Just see. (laughter) Just rascaldom. "Parts are changing, body is not changing."
Surasrestha: Just like a car -- you take spark plugs and put new spark plugs in, but still, it's the same car.
Prabhupada: When the whole parts are changing, then where is the original body? When the whole parts are changed, then it is to be concluded the body is changed. There are so many parts. If this is changed, this is changed, this is changed, then where is the original body? (laughter) Just see their rascaldom.
Yadubara: Parts make up the whole.
Prabhupada: Yes. "The parts are changing, the whole is not changing." Just see. Therefore we say rascals only.
Surasrestha: They say that the brain stays the same, that the brain cells never...
Prabhupada: Therefore take them as rascal. Everything is changing.
Brahmananda: You brain is the same as it was when you were an infant?
Kurusrestha: They say that there's new information coming in, but the brain cells don't die.
Devotee (2): The memory, the memory is staying the same.
Devotee (3): [break] You had said on a... earlier on a morning walk, on a tape, that if one enters into the spiritual world that -- you were asked that he will never have to return -- and you said that if it's a desire, he can return to the material world.
Prabhupada: So what is your objection?
Devotee (3): I was just wondering if the spirit soul being in the spiritual world is eternally liberated, how can he return. By desire?
Prabhupada: Yes. If he desires, he can come again. That option is always there. Just like I remain in India. I come here. And if I like, I may not come. It is my option.
Ambarisa: When we get to the spiritual sky, we'll always be able to remember how horrible it is down here? We'll always be able to remember how terrible it is in the material world?
Prabhupada: It is terrible.
Ambarisa: Yes, we will be able to remember that.
Prabhupada: That is intelligence. When one remembers that this world is duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15], is a place of misery, then we can go. As long as we shall think, "Oh, it is very nice place," we have to remain. Krsna is so kind, "All right, remain in this very nice place."
Brahmananda: You gave the example yesterday of Lord Indra. When he took birth here as a hog, then he didn't want to leave. He thought it was nice.
Prabhupada: Yes, he also thought it is a very nice place.
Kasirama: Queen Kunti was always praying that the calamities would happen again and again so that she would remember Krsna. If the calamities are always happening in the material world, we will realize it is a terrible place to stay.
Prabhupada: This is jnana, knowledge. When one comes to this conclusion, "This is worthless," that is jnana, knowledge. And so long one will think, "No, it is not always bad, sometimes very good," that is ignorance. (laughs)
Kurusrestha: They say that without the bad, then the good wouldn't be as good.
Prabhupada: So you remain with bad and good. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. That possibility is here. Sometimes you are going to the higher heavenly planets, a long duration of life, better standard of enjoyment -- again coming back. [break] Good and bad is exemplified: just like I catch you and put down the water, and when you are suffocated, I raise you little, and you say, "Oh. (laughter) It is very nice." But you do not know, again you are going to be... You see? "This good, bad" is here like that. He is put into the water and suffocated, and when he is taken out little, he says, "Oh, it is very good. It is very good." The rascal does not know, the next moment he is going to be again drowned in that. That is going on. Dandya-jane raja-jana... That was the chief punishment formerly. If one has to be punished, instead of putting into the jail and feed him, the officers will take him to a river and put him in the water. In this way, one day doing, he will say "I will never do these things. Please excuse me." Dandya-jane raja-jane nadite cubaya. [break] ...unless one remembers this, that "To be in the material world, how suffocating it is," he will not fit for going to back to Godhead. He must be completely detestful. If he keeps little attachment, "No, it is very good sometimes," then you have to remain here. [break] "This is not permanent. I shall be put next moment in the bad condition." That he must know. That is knowledge. And if he makes compromise, then he has to be again... [break]
Devotee (4): ...consciousness part of this life, up to the time of death, in our next life we will be put in a situation immediately where we can take up Krsna consciousness again or will we have to suffer karma before we came into Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: You will get Krsna conscious again. Yoga-bhrastah sanjaya... Sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrastah sanjayate [Bg. 6.41]. A Krsna conscious person will be given all comforts of material life so that he may regain without any botheration.
Yadubara: Sometimes it is stated that Krsna will take everything away from the devotee.
Prabhupada: That is special favor, (laughter) that "This rascal is again attached. Take all his..." That is special favor. That is not ordinary favor, so that when everything is taken away, he will completely surrender to Krsna, "Krsna, I have nothing except You."
tumi bina ke ache amara
"I have nothing." That is very good.
Kurusrestha: Once one performs devotional service then he can't get away from Krsna. Can he still get away? It seems like...
Prabhupada: Yes, that option is always, because you are independent.
Kurusrestha: I see with myself that if I try to get away a little bit, He beats me so much that I have to come back.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is special favor.
Yadubara: So Krsna is directly controlling that?
Prabhupada: Yes. When He sees, "That fool wants Me, at the same time, material world. So take his material possession, everything, so that he will want only Me, that's all." Actually, it was done to me. (laughs) I have got practical experience. I did not want to take sannyasa. I thought that I shall do business. And Krsna forced me to take sannyasa and all, everything, dismantled.
Devotee (4): Krsna's mercy on us.
Yadubara: But your business was successful...
Prabhupada: I was thinking of becoming Birla, but I am now more than Birla. This is Krsna's mercy.
Brahmananda: Birla gives you money now.
Prabhupada: Not only that, how many branches Birla has? It is an example, yes.
Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupada, if a devotee gets sick, should he go and take medicine?
Prabhupada: Better not to take.
Devotee (4): Just depend on Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is very good. What is this?
Kurusrestha: Rosehips. (Horse hips(?) Forceps(?))
Yadubara: You said the other day, Srila Prabhupada, that we should take care of disease if it comes. Canakya Pandita was also saying fire and so on.
Prabhupada: That is material consciousness.
Brahmananda: Fasting is one way of eliminating the disease without taking medicine.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is a Indian proverb that "Disease and unwanted guest, if you don't give food, they will go away." If some guest has come whom you do not want, don't give him food. Then he will go away. (laughter) Similarly, disease, if you fast, it will go away. [break] ...another story: praharena dhananjaya. One gentleman had eight or nine daughters and son-in-law. So when they came, he was giving them good food and shelter, everything. So then they saw, "We are very comfortably living at father-in-law's expense." So they did not want to go. The father-in-law saw, "It is very dangerous that all the son-in-laws are not going." Then he began to... First day he did not supply salt. So one son-in-law say, "Oh, they are now disrespecful, they have not given salt." So one went away. And next day, something else, something else, something else, shortened, shortened. So those who were intelligent, they went away. The last one, he was not going. Then his brother-in-laws thought that "Give him good beating." Then he went away. Praharena dhananjaya. Others, those who were intelligent, they, when they thought that "Now there is disrespectful dealing, they are not giving everything," so they gradually... The last one, he was a rascal. He was beaten severely; then he went away.
Yadubara: So if we're beaten by this material nature, then we'll go away.
Prabhupada: No, no. Yes. No, material nature's business is beating and kicking. That's his only business. But we are so fool, we are taking, "Oh, very nice kicking." That is the disease. We accept the kicking as very nice. That is foolishness. We are suffering always by three kinds of..., adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika disturbances. There is disturbance in the body, in the mind, disturbance by other living entities, so many, disturbed by climate, disturbed by famine. Always disturbance. Still, we are thinking, "It is very nice place." This is foolishness. Still, we are trying to improve it. That is foolishness. He does not think that "What is the meaning of improvement? The disturbing is always continuing." That does not come to his brain. They are making improvement. [break] ...improvement, they can say, "This is improvement." But how long this improvement will go? If there is no rainfall, what this improvement will help? So that is not in your hand. That is adhidaivika. It depends on the demigods. If they want, they can stop completely, no rainfall. Then what this improvement will do?
Brahmananda: There'll be no water for their machines.
Prabhupada: Yes. So they are thinking that "This is improvement." What is this nonsense improvement? You are dependent fully on other elements. What improvement will do? And Krsna says, "This is a place for misery." How you will improve? This is folly, this is illusion. Krsna says, "This place is for suffering," and you are making improvement. "Yes, we are advancing. In future we shall live. Nobody will die." Therefore they are called rascals. Persons who are trying to do something which is impossible, they are fools. Mudha. They do not see, still, they hope, "Yes, we are trying. We shall do in future." This is going on. This is the example by the ass. The ass... Driver is sitting on the back of the ass and showing one bunch of grass, and the ass is thinking, "I will get it." (laughter) And he is going on, and he is sitting safely, that "The ass will go on." So our improvement is like that. "Just little forward, then I shall get the grass." He will never get the grass. That he has no brain, that "I am improving; the grass also improving, going on." That they do not see. Now we invented so many airship. It was thought, "Oh, now it will be very nice. Within two hours we shall reach somewhere." Now there are so many dangers. Now there is problem, how to protect us from these accidents.
Brahmananda: Now they have too many airplanes.
Prabhupada: Too many airplanes. So where is the improvement? Improvement means to die altogether two hundred men at a time. This is improvement.
Kurusrestha: They are trying to create a plastic body with plastic heart transplants and plastic liver. They feel that as soon as they can replace all the breakable parts with replaceble ones...
Prabhupada: That is a Frankenstein? (laughter)
Yadubara: They're very persistent, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: That is the foolishness. Fools are very persistent.
Brahmananda: I was reading that in order to go to the moon, it took ten years and the cost was 25 billion dollars.
Prabhupada: Just see how foolish they are. And again they are trying. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Chewing the chewed. This is their business. Horrible civilization.
Kasirama: Mistaking suffering for happiness.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ambarisa: They are always trying to look for the bright side, but there is no bright side.
Prabhupada: Just like north of Sweden, there is no sunrise?
Brahmananda: No.
Prabhupada: So where is bright side? Where is bright side? Vedic injunction is tamasi ma jyotir gama: "Don't remain in this darkness; go to the bright world." Jyotir gama. [break] ...to create some bright side. He will not be allowed to enjoy it. He will have to die. So where is your bright side? [break] ...for preparing?
Brahmananda: For the moon? 25 billion dollars.
Prabhupada: So again I am trying to go another planet. Where is the guarantee that it will be successful?
Brahmananda: On the contrary, if they failed once, then we should think that they would fail again.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is animalism. A dog is coming, and you show him some stick or beat him. He will go away for the time being. Again he will come. That is dog. He doesn't get lesson by one. Therefore it is called punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Repeating the same thing again and again. That is animalism.
Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.
Prabhupada: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." [break] ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story. [break]
Brahmananda: ...English?
Prabhupada: No, no, Indian.
Brahmananda: And the man was also Indian?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: But the barrister, he was English.
Prabhupada: He was appointed because he was a big barrister. Formerly any European, he is very big. So he appointed a very big barrister.
Brahmananda: Oh, he was a rich Indian.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Brahmananda: How he could get such a...
Prabhupada: He was a medical man. Yes, rich, rich. [break] ...they have arranged to have the meeting with this Professor Dimmock?
Brahmananda: I didn't ask. They were supposed to do it. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver
Prabhupada: ...July 3rd, July 4th not the same body.
Kurusrestha: Still, they will say that there's still no reason...
Prabhupada: They will say so many nonsense. Who is going to take it? They are rejected as nonsense. Anyone who is a speculator, he is a nonsense because he has no standard knowledge. Next day they will say, "Oh, no, this is not. This is." They are doing that. That is not knowledge. [break]
Devotee (1): We were discussing in Bhagavad-gita class last night that during our life we are changing our bodies so many different times, and at the time of death we are also changing our body to another body.
Prabhupada: Yes, you get another body.
Devotee (1): What is the difference of changing our body during our lifetime and at death?
Prabhupada: This is... I have said many times. Just like you are using this shirt, and it is not usable, you throw it and again accept another. [break] ...understand this is a difficult problem. (laughs) [break]
Ambarisa: ...second we are dying.
Prabhupada: Yes. Dying means changing body, that's all.
Ambarisa: So we're changing bodies all the time.
Prabhupada: It is going on. You will find it. A creeper is growing. Today she, it is, leaf has grown so much, and next moment you'll see, it has grown so much.
Yadubara: [break] ...that asparagus that you eat, Srila Prabhupada. That will grow two inches in one night.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yadubara: Very quickly. [break]
Kurusrestha: ...the same body, but just the parts are changing. They say that it's not actually the whole body that's changing, but just you're changing parts like...
Prabhupada: That is nonsense. "Parts are changing, the body is not changing." Just see. (laughter) Just rascaldom. "Parts are changing, body is not changing."
Surasrestha: Just like a car -- you take spark plugs and put new spark plugs in, but still, it's the same car.
Prabhupada: When the whole parts are changing, then where is the original body? When the whole parts are changed, then it is to be concluded the body is changed. There are so many parts. If this is changed, this is changed, this is changed, then where is the original body? (laughter) Just see their rascaldom.
Yadubara: Parts make up the whole.
Prabhupada: Yes. "The parts are changing, the whole is not changing." Just see. Therefore we say rascals only.
Surasrestha: They say that the brain stays the same, that the brain cells never...
Prabhupada: Therefore take them as rascal. Everything is changing.
Brahmananda: You brain is the same as it was when you were an infant?
Kurusrestha: They say that there's new information coming in, but the brain cells don't die.
Devotee (2): The memory, the memory is staying the same.
Devotee (3): [break] You had said on a... earlier on a morning walk, on a tape, that if one enters into the spiritual world that -- you were asked that he will never have to return -- and you said that if it's a desire, he can return to the material world.
Prabhupada: So what is your objection?
Devotee (3): I was just wondering if the spirit soul being in the spiritual world is eternally liberated, how can he return. By desire?
Prabhupada: Yes. If he desires, he can come again. That option is always there. Just like I remain in India. I come here. And if I like, I may not come. It is my option.
Ambarisa: When we get to the spiritual sky, we'll always be able to remember how horrible it is down here? We'll always be able to remember how terrible it is in the material world?
Prabhupada: It is terrible.
Ambarisa: Yes, we will be able to remember that.
Prabhupada: That is intelligence. When one remembers that this world is duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15], is a place of misery, then we can go. As long as we shall think, "Oh, it is very nice place," we have to remain. Krsna is so kind, "All right, remain in this very nice place."
Brahmananda: You gave the example yesterday of Lord Indra. When he took birth here as a hog, then he didn't want to leave. He thought it was nice.
Prabhupada: Yes, he also thought it is a very nice place.
Kasirama: Queen Kunti was always praying that the calamities would happen again and again so that she would remember Krsna. If the calamities are always happening in the material world, we will realize it is a terrible place to stay.
Prabhupada: This is jnana, knowledge. When one comes to this conclusion, "This is worthless," that is jnana, knowledge. And so long one will think, "No, it is not always bad, sometimes very good," that is ignorance. (laughs)
Kurusrestha: They say that without the bad, then the good wouldn't be as good.
Prabhupada: So you remain with bad and good. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. That possibility is here. Sometimes you are going to the higher heavenly planets, a long duration of life, better standard of enjoyment -- again coming back. [break] Good and bad is exemplified: just like I catch you and put down the water, and when you are suffocated, I raise you little, and you say, "Oh. (laughter) It is very nice." But you do not know, again you are going to be... You see? "This good, bad" is here like that. He is put into the water and suffocated, and when he is taken out little, he says, "Oh, it is very good. It is very good." The rascal does not know, the next moment he is going to be again drowned in that. That is going on. Dandya-jane raja-jana... That was the chief punishment formerly. If one has to be punished, instead of putting into the jail and feed him, the officers will take him to a river and put him in the water. In this way, one day doing, he will say "I will never do these things. Please excuse me." Dandya-jane raja-jane nadite cubaya. [break] ...unless one remembers this, that "To be in the material world, how suffocating it is," he will not fit for going to back to Godhead. He must be completely detestful. If he keeps little attachment, "No, it is very good sometimes," then you have to remain here. [break] "This is not permanent. I shall be put next moment in the bad condition." That he must know. That is knowledge. And if he makes compromise, then he has to be again... [break]
Devotee (4): ...consciousness part of this life, up to the time of death, in our next life we will be put in a situation immediately where we can take up Krsna consciousness again or will we have to suffer karma before we came into Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: You will get Krsna conscious again. Yoga-bhrastah sanjaya... Sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrastah sanjayate [Bg. 6.41]. A Krsna conscious person will be given all comforts of material life so that he may regain without any botheration.
Yadubara: Sometimes it is stated that Krsna will take everything away from the devotee.
Prabhupada: That is special favor, (laughter) that "This rascal is again attached. Take all his..." That is special favor. That is not ordinary favor, so that when everything is taken away, he will completely surrender to Krsna, "Krsna, I have nothing except You."
tumi bina ke ache amara
"I have nothing." That is very good.
Kurusrestha: Once one performs devotional service then he can't get away from Krsna. Can he still get away? It seems like...
Prabhupada: Yes, that option is always, because you are independent.
Kurusrestha: I see with myself that if I try to get away a little bit, He beats me so much that I have to come back.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is special favor.
Yadubara: So Krsna is directly controlling that?
Prabhupada: Yes. When He sees, "That fool wants Me, at the same time, material world. So take his material possession, everything, so that he will want only Me, that's all." Actually, it was done to me. (laughs) I have got practical experience. I did not want to take sannyasa. I thought that I shall do business. And Krsna forced me to take sannyasa and all, everything, dismantled.
Devotee (4): Krsna's mercy on us.
Yadubara: But your business was successful...
Prabhupada: I was thinking of becoming Birla, but I am now more than Birla. This is Krsna's mercy.
Brahmananda: Birla gives you money now.
Prabhupada: Not only that, how many branches Birla has? It is an example, yes.
Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupada, if a devotee gets sick, should he go and take medicine?
Prabhupada: Better not to take.
Devotee (4): Just depend on Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is very good. What is this?
Kurusrestha: Rosehips. (Horse hips(?) Forceps(?))
Yadubara: You said the other day, Srila Prabhupada, that we should take care of disease if it comes. Canakya Pandita was also saying fire and so on.
Prabhupada: That is material consciousness.
Brahmananda: Fasting is one way of eliminating the disease without taking medicine.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is a Indian proverb that "Disease and unwanted guest, if you don't give food, they will go away." If some guest has come whom you do not want, don't give him food. Then he will go away. (laughter) Similarly, disease, if you fast, it will go away. [break] ...another story: praharena dhananjaya. One gentleman had eight or nine daughters and son-in-law. So when they came, he was giving them good food and shelter, everything. So then they saw, "We are very comfortably living at father-in-law's expense." So they did not want to go. The father-in-law saw, "It is very dangerous that all the son-in-laws are not going." Then he began to... First day he did not supply salt. So one son-in-law say, "Oh, they are now disrespecful, they have not given salt." So one went away. And next day, something else, something else, something else, shortened, shortened. So those who were intelligent, they went away. The last one, he was not going. Then his brother-in-laws thought that "Give him good beating." Then he went away. Praharena dhananjaya. Others, those who were intelligent, they, when they thought that "Now there is disrespectful dealing, they are not giving everything," so they gradually... The last one, he was a rascal. He was beaten severely; then he went away.
Yadubara: So if we're beaten by this material nature, then we'll go away.
Prabhupada: No, no. Yes. No, material nature's business is beating and kicking. That's his only business. But we are so fool, we are taking, "Oh, very nice kicking." That is the disease. We accept the kicking as very nice. That is foolishness. We are suffering always by three kinds of..., adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika disturbances. There is disturbance in the body, in the mind, disturbance by other living entities, so many, disturbed by climate, disturbed by famine. Always disturbance. Still, we are thinking, "It is very nice place." This is foolishness. Still, we are trying to improve it. That is foolishness. He does not think that "What is the meaning of improvement? The disturbing is always continuing." That does not come to his brain. They are making improvement. [break] ...improvement, they can say, "This is improvement." But how long this improvement will go? If there is no rainfall, what this improvement will help? So that is not in your hand. That is adhidaivika. It depends on the demigods. If they want, they can stop completely, no rainfall. Then what this improvement will do?
Brahmananda: There'll be no water for their machines.
Prabhupada: Yes. So they are thinking that "This is improvement." What is this nonsense improvement? You are dependent fully on other elements. What improvement will do? And Krsna says, "This is a place for misery." How you will improve? This is folly, this is illusion. Krsna says, "This place is for suffering," and you are making improvement. "Yes, we are advancing. In future we shall live. Nobody will die." Therefore they are called rascals. Persons who are trying to do something which is impossible, they are fools. Mudha. They do not see, still, they hope, "Yes, we are trying. We shall do in future." This is going on. This is the example by the ass. The ass... Driver is sitting on the back of the ass and showing one bunch of grass, and the ass is thinking, "I will get it." (laughter) And he is going on, and he is sitting safely, that "The ass will go on." So our improvement is like that. "Just little forward, then I shall get the grass." He will never get the grass. That he has no brain, that "I am improving; the grass also improving, going on." That they do not see. Now we invented so many airship. It was thought, "Oh, now it will be very nice. Within two hours we shall reach somewhere." Now there are so many dangers. Now there is problem, how to protect us from these accidents.
Brahmananda: Now they have too many airplanes.
Prabhupada: Too many airplanes. So where is the improvement? Improvement means to die altogether two hundred men at a time. This is improvement.
Kurusrestha: They are trying to create a plastic body with plastic heart transplants and plastic liver. They feel that as soon as they can replace all the breakable parts with replaceble ones...
Prabhupada: That is a Frankenstein? (laughter)
Yadubara: They're very persistent, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: That is the foolishness. Fools are very persistent.
Brahmananda: I was reading that in order to go to the moon, it took ten years and the cost was 25 billion dollars.
Prabhupada: Just see how foolish they are. And again they are trying. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Chewing the chewed. This is their business. Horrible civilization.
Kasirama: Mistaking suffering for happiness.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ambarisa: They are always trying to look for the bright side, but there is no bright side.
Prabhupada: Just like north of Sweden, there is no sunrise?
Brahmananda: No.
Prabhupada: So where is bright side? Where is bright side? Vedic injunction is tamasi ma jyotir gama: "Don't remain in this darkness; go to the bright world." Jyotir gama. [break] ...to create some bright side. He will not be allowed to enjoy it. He will have to die. So where is your bright side? [break] ...for preparing?
Brahmananda: For the moon? 25 billion dollars.
Prabhupada: So again I am trying to go another planet. Where is the guarantee that it will be successful?
Brahmananda: On the contrary, if they failed once, then we should think that they would fail again.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is animalism. A dog is coming, and you show him some stick or beat him. He will go away for the time being. Again he will come. That is dog. He doesn't get lesson by one. Therefore it is called punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Repeating the same thing again and again. That is animalism.
Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.
Prabhupada: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." [break] ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story. [break]
Brahmananda: ...English?
Prabhupada: No, no, Indian.
Brahmananda: And the man was also Indian?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: But the barrister, he was English.
Prabhupada: He was appointed because he was a big barrister. Formerly any European, he is very big. So he appointed a very big barrister.
Brahmananda: Oh, he was a rich Indian.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Brahmananda: How he could get such a...
Prabhupada: He was a medical man. Yes, rich, rich. [break] ...they have arranged to have the meeting with this Professor Dimmock?
Brahmananda: I didn't ask. They were supposed to do it. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver
Friday, April 23, 2010
"So-called Knowledge Is Useless"
Bombay, Novewmber 8, 1975
Devotee: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Devotee (1): Are the animals complacent with their hellish condition of life?
Prabhupada: Animal?
Devotee (1): Yes. Like the dog. Is he happy to be a dog?
Prahupada: Yes. Everyone is happy.
Dr. Patel: There is one story in regard to this, sir... [break]
Prabhupada: The answer? You have got the answer?
Devotee (1): Excuse me?
Dr. Patel: No. He was not. He was not attentive. I answered on his behalf with that story.
Bhagavata: Once that happened to Indra, isn't it, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Anyone, in any condition of life, he thinks that he is happy. That is maya.
Dr. Patel: If all the five holes of indriyas are made to look outside, get our pleasure from out, if they have turned within and get pleasure from yourself, then you are happy. That is in Kathopanisad.
Prabhupada: You can see practically. People are living in, what is called, that zone, where everything is ice?
Devotees: The North Pole.
Prabhupada: They are thinking happy. They do not come out.
Bhagavata: Eskimos.
Prabhupada: I have got practical experience. In my childhood I used to go with my father for some purchasing some bhauma(?) flour in the interior districts. So there was one servant engaged. One day he did not come. So my father asked me, "He is living in there, in that cottage. You can go and ask him." So I went to his cottage. Practically there was no roof, and rain was dropping. So I saw him in a very bad condition. Then I asked him, "Why don't you come to Calcutta with us?" So he replied, "No sir, we cannot go, leaving home. (laughter) This is home." I have got practical experience. "Home sweet home." Janani janma-bhumis ca svargad api gariyasi: Everyone is thinking that his birthplace and his mother is better than the heaven. That is the psychology. So everyone, however abominable... Everyone is living in abominable condition. That's a fact. But everyone is thinking that "Who is happier than me?" Everyone. This is called maya. Unless he thinks, he cannot live.
Devotee (1): What is the throwing potency of maya?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee (1): It is described that there are two potencies of maya.
Dr. Patel: Mam eva prapadyante mayam etan taranti te.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee (1): What is an example of the throwing potency of maya?
Prabhupada: Throwing potency means somebody comes to take Krsna consciousness and maya will dictate, "Why you have come here? Go and enjoy life outside." And he goes away. That is throwing.
Dr. Patel: Crying?
Prabhupada: Throwing, that gets him out. This is throwing. And this is called... What is called? The Sanskrit? Praksepatmika.
Dr. Patel: Prakseka?
Prabhupada: Praksepatmika.
Dr. Patel: Oh, praksepatmika.
Prabhupada: Yes. And another is avaranatmika.
Dr. Patel: Avarana.
Prabhupada: Avarana. He is in the most abominable condition, and he is thinking he is very happy. This is avaranatmika, covering him to see in the real position. Otherwise we are asking everyone that "You come here. I am giving you room. Take prasadam. Chant Hare Krsna. Read these books." "No. Why shall I come?" What is the difficulty here? But nobody will come. He will rot in the home-anxiety -- how to maintain, how to... This is going on. This is called praksepatmika, avaranatmika. He will prefer rotting as hog and dog, but he will never prefer to live as Krsna conscious. This is maya. So many people are there on the beach. You invite them, "Please come to our place. Live nicely. We shall give you nice room, nice prasadam. Chant Hare Krsna." Nobody will come.
Dr. Patel: It is good that they are not coming. Otherwise you won't have this place...
Prabhupada: No, no. We have enough place. We are not depending on Dr. Patel, but Krsna. (laughter)
Devotees: Haribol! Haribol!
Dr. Patel: You rate me very badly.
Prabhupada: No, because you are saying like that. You do not know that I started this business without nothing, you see, with practical nothing. I offered Mr. Nair that "I will give you two lakhs, and the balance I'll give you in three years." So who will believe? "He is a beggar, and he promises to give me fifteen lakhs of rupees within three years." Who will believe that? He knew that "He will not be able to pay. So whatever two lakhs, three lakhs he gives, that will be mine. That's all. Bas." And I was thinking, "He is such a nice gentleman that he will take money, little, little, and I will collect and pay. He is a nice gentleman," I was thinking. And he was thinking, "He's a great fool, (laughter) that he is offering me two lakhs, three lakhs, and he will never be able to pay me balance." So this was the transaction beginning.
Dr. Patel: He had made such transaction before also, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes. He knew that. I thought, "He is a very nice man. He'll take money one after another, so let me take it." This was the beginning.
Dr. Patel: I think he died before you completed the transaction. He died, no?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: So both Jagamanta, Hapebo,(?) all of them I will one day drive and then you'll...
Prabhupada: But as soon as they will not get tea, they will go away. You may bring all the Bombay residents, and when they will see there is no tea, they will go away. (laughter)
Nayanabhirama: Srila Prabhupada, that happened in Vrndavana once.
Prabhupada: I know that. That is the trouble.
Bhagavata: They would not stay in the guesthouse because they could not make their tea.
Nayanabhirama: He said, "Without tea I cannot live." So he went away.
Dr. Patel: Where? Here this Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: No, that I have allowed, that they can make their own tea.
Dr. Patel: You don't allow the tea here in the...?
Prabhupada: No.
Brahmananda: They can make their own tea. There's a special area for that.
Dr. Patel: Many of these boys must have taking tea in past. How they could stop it?
Prabhupada: What is that?
Dr. Patel: Many of them must be taking...
Prabhupada: No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: Not now, before.
Prabhupada: Oh, before they are taking anything. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: How could they stop it? By virtue of the strength of the mind. That man, if he has got no strength of mind, he should not...
Prabhupada: That is Krsna conscious. The government spent millions of dollars to stop LSD habit. But when they come to me, I say, "You cannot do it." They immediately stopped. Therefore U.S. government is sympathetic to this movement. They are surprised how these drug-addicted men are becoming servant of Krsna. One Dr. Judah, he has written a book about us, that the "wonderful..."
Dr. Patel: LSD begets a condition of the mind just like...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be...
Dr. Patel: ...nirakalpa-samadhi. One man told me that's a very good... (laughing) I say we...
Prabhupada: That is another nonsense. Nonsense. Fools.
Dr. Patel: Nirakalpa-samadhi. But they must be getting some sort of condition of the mind, though temporary. That is why they must have turned to that, no?
Prabhupada: There is no consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Were you having the experience?
Prabhupada: First of all you must give it up. Our philosophy is first of all you must give it up, all these bad habits.
Dr. Patel: That is the first condition among Vaisnavas, that they should not have any of these, neither...
Prabhupada: Illicit sex, then meat-eating. (aside) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Krsna. [break]
Bhagavata: ...leaving the four sinful activities. Then one can develop Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: No, this is practicing. This is practicing. Unless one is... Yesam tu anta-gatam papam. Unless one is free from sinful activities, one cannot understand God. It is not possible. God is not so cheap.
Dr. Patel: Practice and vairagya both are necessary, not only vairagya. No?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Dr. Patel: Practice and vairagya both are necessary.
Prabhupada: Vairagya means when you are not addicted to sinful life. That is vairagya. People have got attachment for sinful activities. [break] ...deve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitah, janayaty asu vairagyam. That is the vairagya way. You cannot practice vairagya without Vasudeva's shelter.
Dr. Patel: Vairagya generates by extreme bhakti or by extreme knowledge. Not otherwise. Knowledge is generated by bhakti, no doubt, but then you must have complete knowledge of what is this and what is that.
Prabhupada: Without bhakti, knowledge is artificial, because knowledge means to accept the Supreme Lord as Supreme. That is knowledge.
Dr. Patel: That is knowledge. And then this is also... From that knowledge, when you know that this is all false, then it sort of, in a sense, generated within you, to be...
Prabhupada: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gita, mayayapahrta-jnana. The so-called knowledge is useless. It has no value. mayayapahrta-jnana. What is the test? Na mam prapadyante: "If he had knowledge, he would have surrendered to Me," but he does not do so.
Dr. Patel: Jnanavan mam prapadyante. That is knowledge. Jnana means knowledge. That knowledge is the Supreme.
Prabhupada: But that knowledge means actually jnanavan. Otherwise it is false knowledge. mayayapahrta-jnana. If you do not know what is God, then what is the meaning of your knowledge?
Bhagavata: You explain in the Gita that
bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan mam prapadyante
vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma sudurlabhah
[Bg. 7.19]
Prabhupada: (aside) Hare Krsna. That is knowledge. Therefore so many mahatmas, sadhus, yogis, they are all useless, all useless because they have no bhakti. Simply artificially cheating people. [break] This is a society of cheaters and cheated. If you want to be cheated, there are many cheaters who will come and cheat you. That's all.
Bhagavata: Just like the Guru Maharaj-ji. Now the mother is denouncing. She is saying he is no more qualified to be Bhagavan. Now his brother, he is Bhagavan.
Prabhupada: That's all, anyway, a third class.
Dr. Patel: I think we should not talk about this. Talk something about Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavat. Then, sir?
Prabhupada: Yes. These people are third-class men. Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: mayam etan taranti te
Prabhupada: Jaya. Hare Krsna. [break] ...explained in Bhagavad-gita. Unfortunately the rascals will not take it. That is the difficulty.
Dr. Patel: In my time, when, your time, I mean our time, in the school there was a compulsion of learning the Mahabharata and Ramayana. Now these modern principals,(?) they don't know anything about it. Absolutely there is no knowledge. My daughter said, "What is Ramayana?" I had to look at a English edition of Ramayana and give her Mahabharata. That is what they are teaching now in the schools. So this race is going bankrupt. What about knowing about Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata? They don't know simple Mahabharata.
Prabhupada: [break] ...city one house with twenty rooms on the riverside.
Dr. Patel: I was told that Lasteri's house, you know, sir, Charpak Lasteri.(?)
Prabhupada: What do you think will be the price?
Dr. Patel: I don't know about price, sir. But their prices are as high as in Bombay. Whose is this house? Who is the owner? [break]
Prabhupada: ...jivanti. The trees, they live many, many hundreds of thousands of years more than men.
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupada: Does it mean he is sinless? (laughter)
Indian (1): He's a good man. They are doing good. They are doing good.
Prabhupada: He is... It is most condemned life, the trees. They cannot move one inch. They have to suffer all these natural disturbances. One who is too much sinful, he is condemned to stand up here for five thousand years.
Indian (1): (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Dvaraka, sir. They had a plan to go to Dvaraka.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: You have to take me. You told me you will take me. I am waiting for it.
Bhagavata: When I was in Dvaraka I stayed at the Birla guesthouse, and they said that any time you come you can stay there in Mr. Birla's room right on the oceanfront, very nice room.
Prabhupada: This time is good, Dvaraka?
Dr. Patel: We can go by train to Braman. (?)
Bhagavata: We have to take a long trip in the car from Jangagara(?) to Dvaraka. [break]
Prabhupada: ...like this place. And I have seen London, New York. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: I have not seen Hardwar myself.
Bhagavata: Hardwar, there is also very new asrama that was built up there only a few years ago called Africa asrama, in Hardwar. And the sannyasi there is very well known to me and he also said any time you come you can stay there at his place. Very nice asrama.
Dr. Patel: Hardwar there are many places to stay.
Indian man (2): Even this, our (indistinct) asrama people have got a very big area there. Nearly a hundred rooms are there.
Dr. Patel: Others, also. You can... [break]
Prabhupada: Patel, he has got.
Dr. Patel: It is not Patel. This Das and company. [break] There must be a temple coming. Do you know?
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes.
Dr. Patel: All Bengalis must be the member. Is it a fact that this temple, Jagannatha Puri, was originally a temple for Buddhists and then it was converted into... No?
Prabhupada: This is all these speculators, rascals.
Dr. Patel: Who are the chief men in the temple committee of Jagannatha temple?
Prabhupada: Government.
Dr. Patel: No, no.
Prabhupada: Yes, government.
Dr. Patel: How can they be? Government, no. Temples are never controlled by government.
Prabhupada: Although the king is there...
Yasomatinandana: The government of the king was controlling. Now the government is.
Dr. Patel: Which king?
Prabhupada: The magistrate is the president of the matha.
Dr. Patel: Dvaraka temple was under control of Maharaja of Baroda, but he appointed a committee of Vaisnavas to control it. It was completely free. [break] (laughing) You have been very unkind to people.
Prabhupada: He is a first-class Carvaka, he is.
Bhagavata: The dog is also trying to defend himself against the Lord.
Prabhupada: No. That is not the question. Question is anyone who does not know what is God, he is a Carvaka, that's all. Mudha nabhijanati mam ebhyah param ayayam. He's a Carvaka. That's all. The same bodily concept. Russian, American, Chinese. Then? Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke, sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13].
Indian man (3): They are innocent. They are not...
Dr. Patel: Innocent?
Prabhupada: No, they are not innocent; they are stupid. (laughter) They are not innocent. They will never agree...
Indian man (3): There are so many Indians, they are also not...
Dr. Patel: No, they are also like that.
Prabhupada: Huh? The simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gita... Simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gita, asmin dehe dehinam: "Within this body there is the proprietor." So they do not understand it. Huh?
Indian man (3): That comes after, after...
Indian man (4): Guru, you should go? Then only perfect knowledge he will get.
Yasomatinandana: Guru is there. Why don't they come?
Prabhupada: Yes. Guru is there, but they won't come. They won't come.
Dr. Patel: That jagat guru is, you are, sir.
Prabhupada: It is injunction of the sastra. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. But who is coming to guru? Guru is canvassing whole world, "Please come to me."
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: ...I am in Bombay, but how many Gujaratis are my chela? There is only one Gujarati.
Dr. Patel: One is sufficient. He represents the whole Gujaratis.
Prabhupada: That's all right. (laughter)
Brahmananda: And Prabhupada had to rescue him from America. (laughter)
Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. I will have to preach, bringing men from America and Europe. Nobody is coming here. Everyone is talking big, big.
Indian man (3): God has to go to burden this one also?
Prabhupada: Eh? No, no. This is the difficulty, that whatever I am doing... Therefore I am very much in anxiety when the government says, "Now you go away. Your visa is finished."
Dr. Patel: From here?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Your visa from here?
Prabhupada: Mine, no. My disciples! Dragging.
Dr. Patel: Well, government... I have heard like this, but government think that in this group there may be some those C.I.A. people. I don't know whether they are right...
Prabhupada: Let government supplies some men who does not belong to the C.I.A. And where is that? That is all.
Dr. Patel: That is what they say.
Prabhupada: They may say anything nonsense.
Dr. Patel: That all these, all may not be sadhus. There may be C.I.A., one of them. They'll find out what these fellows are, and then they will do all that.
Bhagavata: Well, first one of their C.I.D. will have to live like we live, and then we can see.
Prabhupada: No, no. Actually Indians are not interested. That is the fact. They: "What is this Hare Krsna? We have chanted the Hare Krsna for hundreds of years. What is the effect?" That is the...
Indian man (5): This is the main problem. [break]
Dr. Patel: That they are doing, this and that. I have to explain them that "You are all humbug because they don't know you well; you don't know them well."
Prabhupada: They will create nuisance because there is no sense. It is better nuisance. Who is coming to make sense, chanting Hare Krsna? Nobody is coming. Then nuisance is better than no sense. (Bengali:) Naya mameche khana mama baba:(?) "To possess no mama, it is better to have a blind mama." So they are blind mama. That's all right. Where is the real mama? All mamas are...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: Mama means mother's brother.
Dr. Patel: No, but here in Gujarat... (Gujarati) Mama means he is a fool. [break]
Devotee (2): Now is not nice. The fruit is not nice.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Devotee (2): You speak in Italian.
Indian man (6): I speak little only.
Devotee (2): Speak in Italian.
Dr. Patel: Don't worry. [break]
Prabhupada: If he comes to your house you must receive him properly. Grham satrum api praptam visvas tam akuto-bhayam. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay
Devotee: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Devotee (1): Are the animals complacent with their hellish condition of life?
Prabhupada: Animal?
Devotee (1): Yes. Like the dog. Is he happy to be a dog?
Prahupada: Yes. Everyone is happy.
Dr. Patel: There is one story in regard to this, sir... [break]
Prabhupada: The answer? You have got the answer?
Devotee (1): Excuse me?
Dr. Patel: No. He was not. He was not attentive. I answered on his behalf with that story.
Bhagavata: Once that happened to Indra, isn't it, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Anyone, in any condition of life, he thinks that he is happy. That is maya.
Dr. Patel: If all the five holes of indriyas are made to look outside, get our pleasure from out, if they have turned within and get pleasure from yourself, then you are happy. That is in Kathopanisad.
Prabhupada: You can see practically. People are living in, what is called, that zone, where everything is ice?
Devotees: The North Pole.
Prabhupada: They are thinking happy. They do not come out.
Bhagavata: Eskimos.
Prabhupada: I have got practical experience. In my childhood I used to go with my father for some purchasing some bhauma(?) flour in the interior districts. So there was one servant engaged. One day he did not come. So my father asked me, "He is living in there, in that cottage. You can go and ask him." So I went to his cottage. Practically there was no roof, and rain was dropping. So I saw him in a very bad condition. Then I asked him, "Why don't you come to Calcutta with us?" So he replied, "No sir, we cannot go, leaving home. (laughter) This is home." I have got practical experience. "Home sweet home." Janani janma-bhumis ca svargad api gariyasi: Everyone is thinking that his birthplace and his mother is better than the heaven. That is the psychology. So everyone, however abominable... Everyone is living in abominable condition. That's a fact. But everyone is thinking that "Who is happier than me?" Everyone. This is called maya. Unless he thinks, he cannot live.
Devotee (1): What is the throwing potency of maya?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee (1): It is described that there are two potencies of maya.
Dr. Patel: Mam eva prapadyante mayam etan taranti te.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee (1): What is an example of the throwing potency of maya?
Prabhupada: Throwing potency means somebody comes to take Krsna consciousness and maya will dictate, "Why you have come here? Go and enjoy life outside." And he goes away. That is throwing.
Dr. Patel: Crying?
Prabhupada: Throwing, that gets him out. This is throwing. And this is called... What is called? The Sanskrit? Praksepatmika.
Dr. Patel: Prakseka?
Prabhupada: Praksepatmika.
Dr. Patel: Oh, praksepatmika.
Prabhupada: Yes. And another is avaranatmika.
Dr. Patel: Avarana.
Prabhupada: Avarana. He is in the most abominable condition, and he is thinking he is very happy. This is avaranatmika, covering him to see in the real position. Otherwise we are asking everyone that "You come here. I am giving you room. Take prasadam. Chant Hare Krsna. Read these books." "No. Why shall I come?" What is the difficulty here? But nobody will come. He will rot in the home-anxiety -- how to maintain, how to... This is going on. This is called praksepatmika, avaranatmika. He will prefer rotting as hog and dog, but he will never prefer to live as Krsna conscious. This is maya. So many people are there on the beach. You invite them, "Please come to our place. Live nicely. We shall give you nice room, nice prasadam. Chant Hare Krsna." Nobody will come.
Dr. Patel: It is good that they are not coming. Otherwise you won't have this place...
Prabhupada: No, no. We have enough place. We are not depending on Dr. Patel, but Krsna. (laughter)
Devotees: Haribol! Haribol!
Dr. Patel: You rate me very badly.
Prabhupada: No, because you are saying like that. You do not know that I started this business without nothing, you see, with practical nothing. I offered Mr. Nair that "I will give you two lakhs, and the balance I'll give you in three years." So who will believe? "He is a beggar, and he promises to give me fifteen lakhs of rupees within three years." Who will believe that? He knew that "He will not be able to pay. So whatever two lakhs, three lakhs he gives, that will be mine. That's all. Bas." And I was thinking, "He is such a nice gentleman that he will take money, little, little, and I will collect and pay. He is a nice gentleman," I was thinking. And he was thinking, "He's a great fool, (laughter) that he is offering me two lakhs, three lakhs, and he will never be able to pay me balance." So this was the transaction beginning.
Dr. Patel: He had made such transaction before also, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes. He knew that. I thought, "He is a very nice man. He'll take money one after another, so let me take it." This was the beginning.
Dr. Patel: I think he died before you completed the transaction. He died, no?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: So both Jagamanta, Hapebo,(?) all of them I will one day drive and then you'll...
Prabhupada: But as soon as they will not get tea, they will go away. You may bring all the Bombay residents, and when they will see there is no tea, they will go away. (laughter)
Nayanabhirama: Srila Prabhupada, that happened in Vrndavana once.
Prabhupada: I know that. That is the trouble.
Bhagavata: They would not stay in the guesthouse because they could not make their tea.
Nayanabhirama: He said, "Without tea I cannot live." So he went away.
Dr. Patel: Where? Here this Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: No, that I have allowed, that they can make their own tea.
Dr. Patel: You don't allow the tea here in the...?
Prabhupada: No.
Brahmananda: They can make their own tea. There's a special area for that.
Dr. Patel: Many of these boys must have taking tea in past. How they could stop it?
Prabhupada: What is that?
Dr. Patel: Many of them must be taking...
Prabhupada: No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: Not now, before.
Prabhupada: Oh, before they are taking anything. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: How could they stop it? By virtue of the strength of the mind. That man, if he has got no strength of mind, he should not...
Prabhupada: That is Krsna conscious. The government spent millions of dollars to stop LSD habit. But when they come to me, I say, "You cannot do it." They immediately stopped. Therefore U.S. government is sympathetic to this movement. They are surprised how these drug-addicted men are becoming servant of Krsna. One Dr. Judah, he has written a book about us, that the "wonderful..."
Dr. Patel: LSD begets a condition of the mind just like...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be...
Dr. Patel: ...nirakalpa-samadhi. One man told me that's a very good... (laughing) I say we...
Prabhupada: That is another nonsense. Nonsense. Fools.
Dr. Patel: Nirakalpa-samadhi. But they must be getting some sort of condition of the mind, though temporary. That is why they must have turned to that, no?
Prabhupada: There is no consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Were you having the experience?
Prabhupada: First of all you must give it up. Our philosophy is first of all you must give it up, all these bad habits.
Dr. Patel: That is the first condition among Vaisnavas, that they should not have any of these, neither...
Prabhupada: Illicit sex, then meat-eating. (aside) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Krsna. [break]
Bhagavata: ...leaving the four sinful activities. Then one can develop Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: No, this is practicing. This is practicing. Unless one is... Yesam tu anta-gatam papam. Unless one is free from sinful activities, one cannot understand God. It is not possible. God is not so cheap.
Dr. Patel: Practice and vairagya both are necessary, not only vairagya. No?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Dr. Patel: Practice and vairagya both are necessary.
Prabhupada: Vairagya means when you are not addicted to sinful life. That is vairagya. People have got attachment for sinful activities. [break] ...deve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitah, janayaty asu vairagyam. That is the vairagya way. You cannot practice vairagya without Vasudeva's shelter.
Dr. Patel: Vairagya generates by extreme bhakti or by extreme knowledge. Not otherwise. Knowledge is generated by bhakti, no doubt, but then you must have complete knowledge of what is this and what is that.
Prabhupada: Without bhakti, knowledge is artificial, because knowledge means to accept the Supreme Lord as Supreme. That is knowledge.
Dr. Patel: That is knowledge. And then this is also... From that knowledge, when you know that this is all false, then it sort of, in a sense, generated within you, to be...
Prabhupada: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gita, mayayapahrta-jnana. The so-called knowledge is useless. It has no value. mayayapahrta-jnana. What is the test? Na mam prapadyante: "If he had knowledge, he would have surrendered to Me," but he does not do so.
Dr. Patel: Jnanavan mam prapadyante. That is knowledge. Jnana means knowledge. That knowledge is the Supreme.
Prabhupada: But that knowledge means actually jnanavan. Otherwise it is false knowledge. mayayapahrta-jnana. If you do not know what is God, then what is the meaning of your knowledge?
Bhagavata: You explain in the Gita that
bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan mam prapadyante
vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma sudurlabhah
[Bg. 7.19]
Prabhupada: (aside) Hare Krsna. That is knowledge. Therefore so many mahatmas, sadhus, yogis, they are all useless, all useless because they have no bhakti. Simply artificially cheating people. [break] This is a society of cheaters and cheated. If you want to be cheated, there are many cheaters who will come and cheat you. That's all.
Bhagavata: Just like the Guru Maharaj-ji. Now the mother is denouncing. She is saying he is no more qualified to be Bhagavan. Now his brother, he is Bhagavan.
Prabhupada: That's all, anyway, a third class.
Dr. Patel: I think we should not talk about this. Talk something about Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavat. Then, sir?
Prabhupada: Yes. These people are third-class men. Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: mayam etan taranti te
Prabhupada: Jaya. Hare Krsna. [break] ...explained in Bhagavad-gita. Unfortunately the rascals will not take it. That is the difficulty.
Dr. Patel: In my time, when, your time, I mean our time, in the school there was a compulsion of learning the Mahabharata and Ramayana. Now these modern principals,(?) they don't know anything about it. Absolutely there is no knowledge. My daughter said, "What is Ramayana?" I had to look at a English edition of Ramayana and give her Mahabharata. That is what they are teaching now in the schools. So this race is going bankrupt. What about knowing about Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata? They don't know simple Mahabharata.
Prabhupada: [break] ...city one house with twenty rooms on the riverside.
Dr. Patel: I was told that Lasteri's house, you know, sir, Charpak Lasteri.(?)
Prabhupada: What do you think will be the price?
Dr. Patel: I don't know about price, sir. But their prices are as high as in Bombay. Whose is this house? Who is the owner? [break]
Prabhupada: ...jivanti. The trees, they live many, many hundreds of thousands of years more than men.
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupada: Does it mean he is sinless? (laughter)
Indian (1): He's a good man. They are doing good. They are doing good.
Prabhupada: He is... It is most condemned life, the trees. They cannot move one inch. They have to suffer all these natural disturbances. One who is too much sinful, he is condemned to stand up here for five thousand years.
Indian (1): (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Dvaraka, sir. They had a plan to go to Dvaraka.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: You have to take me. You told me you will take me. I am waiting for it.
Bhagavata: When I was in Dvaraka I stayed at the Birla guesthouse, and they said that any time you come you can stay there in Mr. Birla's room right on the oceanfront, very nice room.
Prabhupada: This time is good, Dvaraka?
Dr. Patel: We can go by train to Braman. (?)
Bhagavata: We have to take a long trip in the car from Jangagara(?) to Dvaraka. [break]
Prabhupada: ...like this place. And I have seen London, New York. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: I have not seen Hardwar myself.
Bhagavata: Hardwar, there is also very new asrama that was built up there only a few years ago called Africa asrama, in Hardwar. And the sannyasi there is very well known to me and he also said any time you come you can stay there at his place. Very nice asrama.
Dr. Patel: Hardwar there are many places to stay.
Indian man (2): Even this, our (indistinct) asrama people have got a very big area there. Nearly a hundred rooms are there.
Dr. Patel: Others, also. You can... [break]
Prabhupada: Patel, he has got.
Dr. Patel: It is not Patel. This Das and company. [break] There must be a temple coming. Do you know?
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes.
Dr. Patel: All Bengalis must be the member. Is it a fact that this temple, Jagannatha Puri, was originally a temple for Buddhists and then it was converted into... No?
Prabhupada: This is all these speculators, rascals.
Dr. Patel: Who are the chief men in the temple committee of Jagannatha temple?
Prabhupada: Government.
Dr. Patel: No, no.
Prabhupada: Yes, government.
Dr. Patel: How can they be? Government, no. Temples are never controlled by government.
Prabhupada: Although the king is there...
Yasomatinandana: The government of the king was controlling. Now the government is.
Dr. Patel: Which king?
Prabhupada: The magistrate is the president of the matha.
Dr. Patel: Dvaraka temple was under control of Maharaja of Baroda, but he appointed a committee of Vaisnavas to control it. It was completely free. [break] (laughing) You have been very unkind to people.
Prabhupada: He is a first-class Carvaka, he is.
Bhagavata: The dog is also trying to defend himself against the Lord.
Prabhupada: No. That is not the question. Question is anyone who does not know what is God, he is a Carvaka, that's all. Mudha nabhijanati mam ebhyah param ayayam. He's a Carvaka. That's all. The same bodily concept. Russian, American, Chinese. Then? Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke, sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13].
Indian man (3): They are innocent. They are not...
Dr. Patel: Innocent?
Prabhupada: No, they are not innocent; they are stupid. (laughter) They are not innocent. They will never agree...
Indian man (3): There are so many Indians, they are also not...
Dr. Patel: No, they are also like that.
Prabhupada: Huh? The simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gita... Simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gita, asmin dehe dehinam: "Within this body there is the proprietor." So they do not understand it. Huh?
Indian man (3): That comes after, after...
Indian man (4): Guru, you should go? Then only perfect knowledge he will get.
Yasomatinandana: Guru is there. Why don't they come?
Prabhupada: Yes. Guru is there, but they won't come. They won't come.
Dr. Patel: That jagat guru is, you are, sir.
Prabhupada: It is injunction of the sastra. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. But who is coming to guru? Guru is canvassing whole world, "Please come to me."
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: ...I am in Bombay, but how many Gujaratis are my chela? There is only one Gujarati.
Dr. Patel: One is sufficient. He represents the whole Gujaratis.
Prabhupada: That's all right. (laughter)
Brahmananda: And Prabhupada had to rescue him from America. (laughter)
Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. I will have to preach, bringing men from America and Europe. Nobody is coming here. Everyone is talking big, big.
Indian man (3): God has to go to burden this one also?
Prabhupada: Eh? No, no. This is the difficulty, that whatever I am doing... Therefore I am very much in anxiety when the government says, "Now you go away. Your visa is finished."
Dr. Patel: From here?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Your visa from here?
Prabhupada: Mine, no. My disciples! Dragging.
Dr. Patel: Well, government... I have heard like this, but government think that in this group there may be some those C.I.A. people. I don't know whether they are right...
Prabhupada: Let government supplies some men who does not belong to the C.I.A. And where is that? That is all.
Dr. Patel: That is what they say.
Prabhupada: They may say anything nonsense.
Dr. Patel: That all these, all may not be sadhus. There may be C.I.A., one of them. They'll find out what these fellows are, and then they will do all that.
Bhagavata: Well, first one of their C.I.D. will have to live like we live, and then we can see.
Prabhupada: No, no. Actually Indians are not interested. That is the fact. They: "What is this Hare Krsna? We have chanted the Hare Krsna for hundreds of years. What is the effect?" That is the...
Indian man (5): This is the main problem. [break]
Dr. Patel: That they are doing, this and that. I have to explain them that "You are all humbug because they don't know you well; you don't know them well."
Prabhupada: They will create nuisance because there is no sense. It is better nuisance. Who is coming to make sense, chanting Hare Krsna? Nobody is coming. Then nuisance is better than no sense. (Bengali:) Naya mameche khana mama baba:(?) "To possess no mama, it is better to have a blind mama." So they are blind mama. That's all right. Where is the real mama? All mamas are...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: Mama means mother's brother.
Dr. Patel: No, but here in Gujarat... (Gujarati) Mama means he is a fool. [break]
Devotee (2): Now is not nice. The fruit is not nice.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Devotee (2): You speak in Italian.
Indian man (6): I speak little only.
Devotee (2): Speak in Italian.
Dr. Patel: Don't worry. [break]
Prabhupada: If he comes to your house you must receive him properly. Grham satrum api praptam visvas tam akuto-bhayam. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay
Thursday, April 22, 2010
"Scientists--Manufacture An Egg"
Vrndavana, December 7, 1975
Aksayananda: ...from Agra came yesterday, Prabhupada. He wants to live with us. He knows Hindi. He's a teacher. He's a doctor. He's a writer. He's very, very nice. I'll bring him to you today.
Prabhupada: He knows English also?
Aksayananda: English very well. Very humble and he wants to teach. If he can stay in Vrndavana I think it will be very, very beneficial for us.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Wonderful. I'll bring him this morning if it's all right.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Jaya. He bows down. He pays dandavats. He said, "You're a sannyasi, so I must respect. I'm only a grhastha."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the duty.
Aksayananda: And he is also very intelligent. He's not just doing it out of sentiment. Very nice man. Older man.
Prabhupada: If a sannyasi is not offered respect, the punishment is that he should fast one day. That is sastric injunction.
Gunarnava: What is the punishment if one doesn't fast?
Prabhupada: You must go to hell. (laughter) [break]
Aksayananda: ...also come two or three times before over the months, so I know he is serious.
Prabhupada: Let him come.
Aksayananda: Yes, he's very nice.
Prabhupada: What is his age?
Aksayananda: I think he's about... He's getting on. He's fifty, sixty.
Prabhupada: That is all right. Then he should retire.
Aksayananda: Yes. His wife has, I think, expired, so he has no problem there. And he looked in our asrama, and he likes it inside there. He's prepared to live with brahmacaris and so on. Very good man. His name is Mr. Ugrasena. [break] ...much colder today.
Prabhupada: Yes, and it will increase. Yes. In December January it will be very cold.
Aksayananda: Yes. It'll be almost twice as cold. [break]
Prabhupada: ...middle of January, there will be cloud, rain. You have no experience, last winter, anyone? Huh?
Aksayananda: Yes, I have. Still, if we're sincere we'll stay in Vrndavana even if blood and stool comes from the sky, if you want.
Prabhupada: Why do you expect that? [break] ...capati, you apply little ghee?
Aksayananda: For the guests.
Prabhupada: And not for you?
Aksayananda: No.
Prabhupada: Why?
Aksayananda: Because it's very expensive and not necessary.
Prabhupada: No.
Aksayananda: If you say it is necessary, we will do.
Prabhupada: No, in this season it is necessary.
Aksayananda: Very nice. We'll do. That is nice. A little more ghee should be there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: A little more grain. Even little grain at night is all right, I think.
Prabhupada: No, you must eat properly.
Aksayananda: Yes. Then we'll do it.
Prabhupada: And try to keep some cows.
Aksayananda: Accha.
Prabhupada: Yes. On the other land. Make a shed immediately and keep some cows. And Visvambhara, he is experienced. He will help. [break] ...necessary vairagya, there is no need. We don't approve that. Yuktahara-viharas ca. What you require for keeping health but not to eat too much. But what is absolutely required must be done.
Aksayananda: I heard that if you pass stool more than once a day you become a bhogi? You are called a bhogi?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Does that mean a serious devotee should only pass stool once a day?
Prabhupada: Don't artificially do that. (laughter) First of all become yogi. Then do it.
Aksayananda: Yes. Of course, it can only be done by Krsna's mercy, but one should at least try for that.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. Don't try for passing stool once. (laughter) That does not make you a yogi.
Bhavananda: Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantaratmana [Bg. 6.47].
Prabhupada: Antara... Yes. That makes you yogi, not by passing stool. (laughter) Hare Krsna. [break] Huh?
Harikesa: That will be it? The scientist and the egg?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Okay.
Prabhupada: You know that? What is that article?
Aksayananda: The one you heard last night?
Prabhupada: No. When I was in South America I saw that...
Harikesa: South Africa.
Prabhupada: South Africa. There are many factories for chicken killing. So I suggested that the egg, you can analyze, find out the chemicals and...
Aksayananda: Create one.
Prabhupada: Create one egg. That was my proposal. So he is going to create. (laughter) He'll explain how to create egg from...
Aksayananda: From chemicals.
Jnana: And make chicken.
Harikesa: Calcium phosphate and a little sulphur for the yellow, make some color, and cover it in plastic and put it in an incubator and let a chicken grow.
Prabhupada: And you eat.
Aksayananda: That will be a nice article.
Harikesa: And if they can, they can beat us on the face with shoes, and if they can't, we can beat them on the face with shoes.
Aksayananda: Well, that's another thing. [break]
Prabhupada: ...ly regret is that these rascals are going as scientists and big men. Simply talk. They cannot create. It is very simple thing. Put some chemicals together and if you know the chemicals, then why don't you put it? And incubator put, then you don't require to kill so many chicken. [break]
Alanath: In Sweden when you go on the street and you preach, "Everybody must suffer here," they don't believe because everybody got an apartment. They have never seen a poor man or a starving cow.
Prahupada: But he is himself a poor man.
Alanath: In Sweden...
Prabhupada: But he has no knowledge to understand it. Why he is falling down from the skyscraper and killing himself? Why? A poor man commits suicide. So if he is committing suicide he is a poor man. He is a poor man. He falsely thinking that he is rich man.
Alanath: We're printing now a book there with all the talks according to the scientists and according to the Christian philosophy what was lately in the Back to Godheads in America.
Prabhupada: Don't write anything nonsense. It must be very solid. Otherwise, you'll be laughing stock. What you'll say, it must...
Alanath: No, just the talks you make. Just your conversations.
Aksayananda: Your lectures only.
Prabhupada: Oh. That's all right. One must be confident before challenging others. Not that theoretical. Challenge is no good. In all stages he must be able to defend himself from the opposing elements. Then such challenge is all right. [break] We are confident that this soul cannot be manufactured by any material combination. Therefore we can challenge. And I can defend ourself in any stage. [break] Cana, cana?
Aksayananda: Channa?
Prabhupada: Not cchana but cana. Canaka dahl?
Aksayananda: Oh, cana dahl, yes.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Cana dahl is good nowadays.
Aksayananda: Chick pea dahl for winter.
Prabhupada: Mixed with little urad dahl, then it will be very palatable and very beneficial.
Aksayananda: For at lunchtime?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Yes. Very good. [break] ...dahl will give you as much energy as eggs will any time.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Practically the same thing.
Prabhupada: It contains protein.
Harikesa: Actually it's a wonderful challenge. This big, big scientist, big, big brain...
Prabhupada: Big, big monkey. (laughter) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy."
Harikesa: And we walk in and put an egg in front of him.
Prabhupada: You do not know this? Baro baro bandolel, baro baro pet lanka dingate, matakare het.(?) (laughter) This translation was done by one big professor, of President's College, Professor Rowe. He was a big professor in the President's College. So these professors required to learn Bengali, so he translated, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping melancholy." [break]
Alanath: There's some countries in Europe where they have absolute laws against selling books in the street. In these countries do we have to make something secret to sell your books?
Prabhupada: Secret? Why?
Alanath: Because otherwise they would immediately put you in prison.
Prabhupada: Where? Here in India?
Alanath: No. In Europe, like in Switzerland. But when we go there for selling books people take them like anything, but you have to hide before the police very carefully.
Prabhupada: Why? Why don't you take permission from the court?
Alanath: No. It's not possible.
Aksayananda: Have you applied?
Alanath: They have very strict laws. It's also been applied for.
Prabhupada: No, you have to prove: "This is very important book of knowledge, so allow us a special."
Alanath: It's especially different if foreigners try to sell a book there. And we have... Like in Austria we have no Austrian devotees there.
Aksayananda: They think it's an invasion.
Alanath: Yes. We used to go there sometimes, and it was very good. People took many many books, but sometimes they caught us, so...
Prabhupada: No, if they caught, go to the jail and when there is trial you should explain that "This is very important book. The government should allow to sell."
Alanath: If the policemen liked us, but the law is strict.
Prabhupada: Therefore you have to take defense from the law. You present in the court the professors' opinion, how they are giving standing order. Why the state should restrain distributing knowledge? Do they want to keep their men in darkness? You have to preach like that. [break]...University is the most important university in Europe. They read our books. They order standing order. So why this loafer state prohibit?
Alanath: ...these explanations, they always argue, "If we allow you to sell your books, then we must allow everybody to sell on the street."
Prabhupada: No. But you must consider the importance of... [break] Everybody submits application for becoming high-court judge. Will it be granted? There must be discrimination. [break] Thank you very much for your kindness. Yes. I am very pleased. Thank you. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana
Aksayananda: ...from Agra came yesterday, Prabhupada. He wants to live with us. He knows Hindi. He's a teacher. He's a doctor. He's a writer. He's very, very nice. I'll bring him to you today.
Prabhupada: He knows English also?
Aksayananda: English very well. Very humble and he wants to teach. If he can stay in Vrndavana I think it will be very, very beneficial for us.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Wonderful. I'll bring him this morning if it's all right.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Jaya. He bows down. He pays dandavats. He said, "You're a sannyasi, so I must respect. I'm only a grhastha."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the duty.
Aksayananda: And he is also very intelligent. He's not just doing it out of sentiment. Very nice man. Older man.
Prabhupada: If a sannyasi is not offered respect, the punishment is that he should fast one day. That is sastric injunction.
Gunarnava: What is the punishment if one doesn't fast?
Prabhupada: You must go to hell. (laughter) [break]
Aksayananda: ...also come two or three times before over the months, so I know he is serious.
Prabhupada: Let him come.
Aksayananda: Yes, he's very nice.
Prabhupada: What is his age?
Aksayananda: I think he's about... He's getting on. He's fifty, sixty.
Prabhupada: That is all right. Then he should retire.
Aksayananda: Yes. His wife has, I think, expired, so he has no problem there. And he looked in our asrama, and he likes it inside there. He's prepared to live with brahmacaris and so on. Very good man. His name is Mr. Ugrasena. [break] ...much colder today.
Prabhupada: Yes, and it will increase. Yes. In December January it will be very cold.
Aksayananda: Yes. It'll be almost twice as cold. [break]
Prabhupada: ...middle of January, there will be cloud, rain. You have no experience, last winter, anyone? Huh?
Aksayananda: Yes, I have. Still, if we're sincere we'll stay in Vrndavana even if blood and stool comes from the sky, if you want.
Prabhupada: Why do you expect that? [break] ...capati, you apply little ghee?
Aksayananda: For the guests.
Prabhupada: And not for you?
Aksayananda: No.
Prabhupada: Why?
Aksayananda: Because it's very expensive and not necessary.
Prabhupada: No.
Aksayananda: If you say it is necessary, we will do.
Prabhupada: No, in this season it is necessary.
Aksayananda: Very nice. We'll do. That is nice. A little more ghee should be there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: A little more grain. Even little grain at night is all right, I think.
Prabhupada: No, you must eat properly.
Aksayananda: Yes. Then we'll do it.
Prabhupada: And try to keep some cows.
Aksayananda: Accha.
Prabhupada: Yes. On the other land. Make a shed immediately and keep some cows. And Visvambhara, he is experienced. He will help. [break] ...necessary vairagya, there is no need. We don't approve that. Yuktahara-viharas ca. What you require for keeping health but not to eat too much. But what is absolutely required must be done.
Aksayananda: I heard that if you pass stool more than once a day you become a bhogi? You are called a bhogi?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Does that mean a serious devotee should only pass stool once a day?
Prabhupada: Don't artificially do that. (laughter) First of all become yogi. Then do it.
Aksayananda: Yes. Of course, it can only be done by Krsna's mercy, but one should at least try for that.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. Don't try for passing stool once. (laughter) That does not make you a yogi.
Bhavananda: Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantaratmana [Bg. 6.47].
Prabhupada: Antara... Yes. That makes you yogi, not by passing stool. (laughter) Hare Krsna. [break] Huh?
Harikesa: That will be it? The scientist and the egg?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Okay.
Prabhupada: You know that? What is that article?
Aksayananda: The one you heard last night?
Prabhupada: No. When I was in South America I saw that...
Harikesa: South Africa.
Prabhupada: South Africa. There are many factories for chicken killing. So I suggested that the egg, you can analyze, find out the chemicals and...
Aksayananda: Create one.
Prabhupada: Create one egg. That was my proposal. So he is going to create. (laughter) He'll explain how to create egg from...
Aksayananda: From chemicals.
Jnana: And make chicken.
Harikesa: Calcium phosphate and a little sulphur for the yellow, make some color, and cover it in plastic and put it in an incubator and let a chicken grow.
Prabhupada: And you eat.
Aksayananda: That will be a nice article.
Harikesa: And if they can, they can beat us on the face with shoes, and if they can't, we can beat them on the face with shoes.
Aksayananda: Well, that's another thing. [break]
Prabhupada: ...ly regret is that these rascals are going as scientists and big men. Simply talk. They cannot create. It is very simple thing. Put some chemicals together and if you know the chemicals, then why don't you put it? And incubator put, then you don't require to kill so many chicken. [break]
Alanath: In Sweden when you go on the street and you preach, "Everybody must suffer here," they don't believe because everybody got an apartment. They have never seen a poor man or a starving cow.
Prahupada: But he is himself a poor man.
Alanath: In Sweden...
Prabhupada: But he has no knowledge to understand it. Why he is falling down from the skyscraper and killing himself? Why? A poor man commits suicide. So if he is committing suicide he is a poor man. He is a poor man. He falsely thinking that he is rich man.
Alanath: We're printing now a book there with all the talks according to the scientists and according to the Christian philosophy what was lately in the Back to Godheads in America.
Prabhupada: Don't write anything nonsense. It must be very solid. Otherwise, you'll be laughing stock. What you'll say, it must...
Alanath: No, just the talks you make. Just your conversations.
Aksayananda: Your lectures only.
Prabhupada: Oh. That's all right. One must be confident before challenging others. Not that theoretical. Challenge is no good. In all stages he must be able to defend himself from the opposing elements. Then such challenge is all right. [break] We are confident that this soul cannot be manufactured by any material combination. Therefore we can challenge. And I can defend ourself in any stage. [break] Cana, cana?
Aksayananda: Channa?
Prabhupada: Not cchana but cana. Canaka dahl?
Aksayananda: Oh, cana dahl, yes.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Cana dahl is good nowadays.
Aksayananda: Chick pea dahl for winter.
Prabhupada: Mixed with little urad dahl, then it will be very palatable and very beneficial.
Aksayananda: For at lunchtime?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Yes. Very good. [break] ...dahl will give you as much energy as eggs will any time.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Practically the same thing.
Prabhupada: It contains protein.
Harikesa: Actually it's a wonderful challenge. This big, big scientist, big, big brain...
Prabhupada: Big, big monkey. (laughter) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy."
Harikesa: And we walk in and put an egg in front of him.
Prabhupada: You do not know this? Baro baro bandolel, baro baro pet lanka dingate, matakare het.(?) (laughter) This translation was done by one big professor, of President's College, Professor Rowe. He was a big professor in the President's College. So these professors required to learn Bengali, so he translated, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping melancholy." [break]
Alanath: There's some countries in Europe where they have absolute laws against selling books in the street. In these countries do we have to make something secret to sell your books?
Prabhupada: Secret? Why?
Alanath: Because otherwise they would immediately put you in prison.
Prabhupada: Where? Here in India?
Alanath: No. In Europe, like in Switzerland. But when we go there for selling books people take them like anything, but you have to hide before the police very carefully.
Prabhupada: Why? Why don't you take permission from the court?
Alanath: No. It's not possible.
Aksayananda: Have you applied?
Alanath: They have very strict laws. It's also been applied for.
Prabhupada: No, you have to prove: "This is very important book of knowledge, so allow us a special."
Alanath: It's especially different if foreigners try to sell a book there. And we have... Like in Austria we have no Austrian devotees there.
Aksayananda: They think it's an invasion.
Alanath: Yes. We used to go there sometimes, and it was very good. People took many many books, but sometimes they caught us, so...
Prabhupada: No, if they caught, go to the jail and when there is trial you should explain that "This is very important book. The government should allow to sell."
Alanath: If the policemen liked us, but the law is strict.
Prabhupada: Therefore you have to take defense from the law. You present in the court the professors' opinion, how they are giving standing order. Why the state should restrain distributing knowledge? Do they want to keep their men in darkness? You have to preach like that. [break]...University is the most important university in Europe. They read our books. They order standing order. So why this loafer state prohibit?
Alanath: ...these explanations, they always argue, "If we allow you to sell your books, then we must allow everybody to sell on the street."
Prabhupada: No. But you must consider the importance of... [break] Everybody submits application for becoming high-court judge. Will it be granted? There must be discrimination. [break] Thank you very much for your kindness. Yes. I am very pleased. Thank you. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana
Wednesday, April 21, 2010
"Perfect Disciple's Imperfection"
Hyderabad, April 7, 1975
Jayadvaita: Just like sometimes we'll hear our men. They'll be chanting... Like yesterday I heard that someone was chanting, "Nitai-Gaura, Nitai-Gaura, Nitai-Nitai-Gaura." Like that, I'll hear different mantras. Someone is chanting: "Radhe, Radhe, Radhe, Radhe," like that, at kirtana.
Prabhupada: Well, that is not done by the acaryas. But there is no harm chanting "Radhe." But sometimes it is degraded to make something new, invention. Therefore better to stick to "Hare Krsna" and to "Sri-Krsna Caitanya Prabhupada-Nityananda." Otherwise... Just like the sahajiyas, they have invented: "Nitai-Gaura Radhe Syama, Hare Krsna Hare Rama." These things will come gradually. But they are not approved. They are called chara kirtana (?), means "concocted kirtana." But there is no harm chanting "Radhe, Nitai-Gaura." So better stick to this Panca-tattva, and maha-mantra. Just like "Nitai Gaura Radhe Syama, Hare Krsna Hare Rama." There is "Nitai-Gaura, Radhe Syama," but it is not approved. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the mahajana. In Caitanya-caritamrta you'll find "Sri-Krsna-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityananda, Sri-Advaita Gadadhara...," never "Nitai Gaura, Radhe Syama." So why should we do that?
Jayapataka: The concocter of the "Nitai Gaura Radhe Syama," previously he was a follower of Bhaktisiddhanta, but then he was rejected, and then he started his own camp.
Prabhupada: No, yes, he was meeting Bhaktivinoda Thakura. So... What is called? Carana dasa Babaji.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, sometimes during arati, many bona fide bhajanas are sung, but not much Hare Krsna. Is that not a good tendency, that maybe just two or three minutes of Hare Krsna mantra and many other bhajanas?
Prabhupada: No. We should stick to Hare Krsna. Sri-Krsna-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityananda, jiva jago jiva jago..., these are authorized. But Hare Krsna is the maha-mantra. What is sung by mahajana, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Narottama dasa Thakura, that can be sung. [break]
Jayapataka: ...you say is back to Godhead. But when one is situated in pure, transcendental love of Krsna, then that's, then wherever he may be, that's back to Godhead. Isn't it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayapataka: So then we should desire not to go back to Vaikuntha but to go back to..., to be situated in our pure service to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Pure devotee does not aspire anything, simply to be engaged in loving service of the Lord, wherever it may be. It doesn't matter. [break]
Jayadvaita: ...they know everything and they're perfect in everything. But sometimes, from our material viewpoint, we see some discrepancies. Just like we think that...
Prabhupada: Because material viewpoint. The viewpoint is wrong; therefore you find discrepancies.
Jayadvaita: So we should think that we have the defect.
Prabhupada: Yes. Acarya is explained, bhakti-samsanah: "One who's preaching the cult of devotional service, he's acarya." Then why should you find any discrepancy?
Jayadvaita: Because we see... For instance, sometimes the acarya may seem to forget something or not to know something, so from our point of view, if someone has forgotten, that is...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Then...
Jayadvaita: ...an imperfection.
Prabhupada: That is not the... Then you do not understand. Acarya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is acarya.
Jayadvaita: And that is the perfection.
Prabhupada: That is the perfection. Hare Krsna.
Jayadvaita: So we have a misunderstanding about what perfection is?
Prabhupada: Yes. Perfection is here, how he is preaching bhakti cult. That's all.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, there's also a question of reciprocation. You have so many disciples, thousands, and one devotee was asking me yesterday, "How does... I want to please Srila Prabhupada. How does he know my progress and my service because I'm..., when I'm so far away from him and if I don't write him?"
Prabhupada: So his representatives are there, the president, the GBC. They will see.
Madhavananda: The representatives.
Jayadvaita: The representative may be there, but what is my personal relationship?
Prabhupada: Hm? To obey your spiritual master. Whatever he has said, you follow strictly. Follow the regulative principles. Chant sixteen rounds. That's all.
Devotee (1): Prabhupada, when Srila Vyasadeva was lamenting after compiling so many Vedic literatures before compiling Srimad Bhagavatam, he said to his spiritual master, Narada Muni, that "You please enter within me and find out my deficiency. You are as good as the all-pervading Supersoul."
Prabhupada: That is always the position of spiritual master, to find out the deficiency in the character of his disciple.
Devotee (1): He said that "You are as good as the all-pervading Supersoul."
Prabhupada: Yes. He... He pointed out the deficiency, that "You have not described so elaborately about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have touched only the social, religious, political point of views." That was his deficiency. So a disciple is always in deficiency before his spiritual master. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, guru more murkha dekhi karila sasana [Cc. Adi 7.71]. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." So disciple should be always ready to be chastised. He should not think that he has become perfect. That is perfection. So long he thinks that he is not perfect-he's to be chastised -- then he's perfect. And as soon as he thinks that he has become perfect, he's nonsense immediately, nonsense number one. [Break] ...always to be chastised by the spiritual master for perfection. And if he thinks that now he has become perfect, then he's a foolish. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru more murkha dekhi. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one." Was He fool number one? He's God Himself. But that is the position. He should remain always a fool number one, ready to be chastised. Then he's perfect. In the moral instruction, Canakya Pandita gives this instruction, that lalane bahavo dosas tadane bahavo gunah: "If you chastise your son or disciple, he'll improve, and if you say, 'Oh, you are all right,' then he'll degrade." Tasmat putram ca sisyam ca tadayet na tu lalayet: "Therefore you always chastise your son and disciple. Never flat..." What is called?
Jayadvaita: Flatter.
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: Prabhupada, in one purport in the Bhagavad-gita, you write that a disciple of a bona fide spiritual master is supposed to know everything.
Prabhupada: Yes, if he follows the spiritual master.
Satsvarupa: But how could he know...? What does that mean, "everything"?
Prabhupada: Everything means whatever his guru knows, he should know, that much. Not like God, everything. Within his limit, that's all. If he tries to understand whatever his guru has said, that much is "everything." Otherwise, "everything" does not mean that we know everything, like God, like Krsna. That is not possible. If he regularly chants and follow the regulative principles, follows the orders of guru, then he knows everything. That's all. Not very much... Knows everything, then what is the use of reading books when he knows everything? [break] ...everything -- except Krsna. Aham... Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto [Bg. 15.15]. He knows past, present, future, everything. You cannot expect anyone to know like Krsna, everything.
Jayadvaita: Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita that one who knows Him knows everything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because if he knows that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he knows everything. That's all. Not that he should know as Krsna. If he... Yasmin vijnate sarvam eva vijnatam... If he accepts Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. That is finish.
Jayadvaita: That knowledge itself is...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayadvaita: That knowledge itself is complete.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: There may be material things he doesn't know, but they're useless.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: If there's some material information that such a person doesn't know, that's not really knowledge anyway.
Prabhupada: I did not follow.
Satsvarupa: If he doesn't know how many people live in...
Jayadvaita: Just like Gaura-kisora could not write. So it appeared that he did not, there was something that he did not know, although he knew Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. He knows everything. Otherwise how Bhaktisiddhanta accepted him as guru? He knows Krsna. That's all.
Nalini-kanta: Whatever the spiritual master says, that is also perfect?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because he says nothing concocted. Whatever he says, he says from sastra, and guru.
Devotee (2): Srila Prabhupada, is there any instance when you were chastised by your spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee (2): Is there any instance when you were chastised by your spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Devotee (2): Can you tell us?
Prabhupada: I remember the moment was very valuable. Yes.
Devotee (2): Can you tell us the story?
Prabhupada: Yes. I think I have said that.
Satsvarupa: When you were speaking to one man...
Prabhupada: Yes. He became very angry and chastised me.
Jagajivana: Srila Prabhupada, was this during a lecture by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jagajivana: Was this during a lecture?
Prabhupada: Yes. I was not... One of my old brother, he, he wanted to speak something. So I leaned my... I immediately became... (laughter) So he chastised him more than me.
Devotee (2): When Lord Caitanya chastised someone more than Advaita Acarya, Advaita felt that He had been neglected 'cause he had not received a greater chastisement.
Prabhupada: He wanted to be chastised, so Caitanya fulfilled His desire. (end)
Morning Walk -- April 9, 1975, Mayapur
750409mw.may
Morning Walk
--
April 9, 1975, Mayapur
Prabhupada: ...think that I am going to die very soon. You know that Romaharsana?
Satsvarupa: Romaharsana?
Prabhupada: Eh? Romaharsana?
Satsvarupa: Who Balarama killed?
Prabhupada: No, another. Lomarsa, Lomarsa Muni. He would die when all the hairs on the body will fall down. And each hair will fall down after the death of one Brahma. So he was chanting on the sea, and Narada Muni was passing: "Why don't you make a cottage?" "How long I shall live? What is the use of cottage?" He's also thinking: "I'll die."
Satsvarupa: There's also the story of that Maharaja Khatvanga, who found out that he only had a minute to live. What did he do, that he...? You say that he surrendered at once.
Prabhupada: He surrendered to Krsna. That's all. Hmmm. Go this...
Devotee: Prabhupada, if we, if we increase our devotional activities, then we automatically become satisfied, and then detached from material life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur
Jayadvaita: Just like sometimes we'll hear our men. They'll be chanting... Like yesterday I heard that someone was chanting, "Nitai-Gaura, Nitai-Gaura, Nitai-Nitai-Gaura." Like that, I'll hear different mantras. Someone is chanting: "Radhe, Radhe, Radhe, Radhe," like that, at kirtana.
Prabhupada: Well, that is not done by the acaryas. But there is no harm chanting "Radhe." But sometimes it is degraded to make something new, invention. Therefore better to stick to "Hare Krsna" and to "Sri-Krsna Caitanya Prabhupada-Nityananda." Otherwise... Just like the sahajiyas, they have invented: "Nitai-Gaura Radhe Syama, Hare Krsna Hare Rama." These things will come gradually. But they are not approved. They are called chara kirtana (?), means "concocted kirtana." But there is no harm chanting "Radhe, Nitai-Gaura." So better stick to this Panca-tattva, and maha-mantra. Just like "Nitai Gaura Radhe Syama, Hare Krsna Hare Rama." There is "Nitai-Gaura, Radhe Syama," but it is not approved. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the mahajana. In Caitanya-caritamrta you'll find "Sri-Krsna-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityananda, Sri-Advaita Gadadhara...," never "Nitai Gaura, Radhe Syama." So why should we do that?
Jayapataka: The concocter of the "Nitai Gaura Radhe Syama," previously he was a follower of Bhaktisiddhanta, but then he was rejected, and then he started his own camp.
Prabhupada: No, yes, he was meeting Bhaktivinoda Thakura. So... What is called? Carana dasa Babaji.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, sometimes during arati, many bona fide bhajanas are sung, but not much Hare Krsna. Is that not a good tendency, that maybe just two or three minutes of Hare Krsna mantra and many other bhajanas?
Prabhupada: No. We should stick to Hare Krsna. Sri-Krsna-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityananda, jiva jago jiva jago..., these are authorized. But Hare Krsna is the maha-mantra. What is sung by mahajana, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Narottama dasa Thakura, that can be sung. [break]
Jayapataka: ...you say is back to Godhead. But when one is situated in pure, transcendental love of Krsna, then that's, then wherever he may be, that's back to Godhead. Isn't it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayapataka: So then we should desire not to go back to Vaikuntha but to go back to..., to be situated in our pure service to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Pure devotee does not aspire anything, simply to be engaged in loving service of the Lord, wherever it may be. It doesn't matter. [break]
Jayadvaita: ...they know everything and they're perfect in everything. But sometimes, from our material viewpoint, we see some discrepancies. Just like we think that...
Prabhupada: Because material viewpoint. The viewpoint is wrong; therefore you find discrepancies.
Jayadvaita: So we should think that we have the defect.
Prabhupada: Yes. Acarya is explained, bhakti-samsanah: "One who's preaching the cult of devotional service, he's acarya." Then why should you find any discrepancy?
Jayadvaita: Because we see... For instance, sometimes the acarya may seem to forget something or not to know something, so from our point of view, if someone has forgotten, that is...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Then...
Jayadvaita: ...an imperfection.
Prabhupada: That is not the... Then you do not understand. Acarya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is acarya.
Jayadvaita: And that is the perfection.
Prabhupada: That is the perfection. Hare Krsna.
Jayadvaita: So we have a misunderstanding about what perfection is?
Prabhupada: Yes. Perfection is here, how he is preaching bhakti cult. That's all.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, there's also a question of reciprocation. You have so many disciples, thousands, and one devotee was asking me yesterday, "How does... I want to please Srila Prabhupada. How does he know my progress and my service because I'm..., when I'm so far away from him and if I don't write him?"
Prabhupada: So his representatives are there, the president, the GBC. They will see.
Madhavananda: The representatives.
Jayadvaita: The representative may be there, but what is my personal relationship?
Prabhupada: Hm? To obey your spiritual master. Whatever he has said, you follow strictly. Follow the regulative principles. Chant sixteen rounds. That's all.
Devotee (1): Prabhupada, when Srila Vyasadeva was lamenting after compiling so many Vedic literatures before compiling Srimad Bhagavatam, he said to his spiritual master, Narada Muni, that "You please enter within me and find out my deficiency. You are as good as the all-pervading Supersoul."
Prabhupada: That is always the position of spiritual master, to find out the deficiency in the character of his disciple.
Devotee (1): He said that "You are as good as the all-pervading Supersoul."
Prabhupada: Yes. He... He pointed out the deficiency, that "You have not described so elaborately about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have touched only the social, religious, political point of views." That was his deficiency. So a disciple is always in deficiency before his spiritual master. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, guru more murkha dekhi karila sasana [Cc. Adi 7.71]. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." So disciple should be always ready to be chastised. He should not think that he has become perfect. That is perfection. So long he thinks that he is not perfect-he's to be chastised -- then he's perfect. And as soon as he thinks that he has become perfect, he's nonsense immediately, nonsense number one. [Break] ...always to be chastised by the spiritual master for perfection. And if he thinks that now he has become perfect, then he's a foolish. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru more murkha dekhi. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one." Was He fool number one? He's God Himself. But that is the position. He should remain always a fool number one, ready to be chastised. Then he's perfect. In the moral instruction, Canakya Pandita gives this instruction, that lalane bahavo dosas tadane bahavo gunah: "If you chastise your son or disciple, he'll improve, and if you say, 'Oh, you are all right,' then he'll degrade." Tasmat putram ca sisyam ca tadayet na tu lalayet: "Therefore you always chastise your son and disciple. Never flat..." What is called?
Jayadvaita: Flatter.
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: Prabhupada, in one purport in the Bhagavad-gita, you write that a disciple of a bona fide spiritual master is supposed to know everything.
Prabhupada: Yes, if he follows the spiritual master.
Satsvarupa: But how could he know...? What does that mean, "everything"?
Prabhupada: Everything means whatever his guru knows, he should know, that much. Not like God, everything. Within his limit, that's all. If he tries to understand whatever his guru has said, that much is "everything." Otherwise, "everything" does not mean that we know everything, like God, like Krsna. That is not possible. If he regularly chants and follow the regulative principles, follows the orders of guru, then he knows everything. That's all. Not very much... Knows everything, then what is the use of reading books when he knows everything? [break] ...everything -- except Krsna. Aham... Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto [Bg. 15.15]. He knows past, present, future, everything. You cannot expect anyone to know like Krsna, everything.
Jayadvaita: Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita that one who knows Him knows everything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because if he knows that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he knows everything. That's all. Not that he should know as Krsna. If he... Yasmin vijnate sarvam eva vijnatam... If he accepts Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. That is finish.
Jayadvaita: That knowledge itself is...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayadvaita: That knowledge itself is complete.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: There may be material things he doesn't know, but they're useless.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: If there's some material information that such a person doesn't know, that's not really knowledge anyway.
Prabhupada: I did not follow.
Satsvarupa: If he doesn't know how many people live in...
Jayadvaita: Just like Gaura-kisora could not write. So it appeared that he did not, there was something that he did not know, although he knew Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. He knows everything. Otherwise how Bhaktisiddhanta accepted him as guru? He knows Krsna. That's all.
Nalini-kanta: Whatever the spiritual master says, that is also perfect?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because he says nothing concocted. Whatever he says, he says from sastra, and guru.
Devotee (2): Srila Prabhupada, is there any instance when you were chastised by your spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee (2): Is there any instance when you were chastised by your spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Devotee (2): Can you tell us?
Prabhupada: I remember the moment was very valuable. Yes.
Devotee (2): Can you tell us the story?
Prabhupada: Yes. I think I have said that.
Satsvarupa: When you were speaking to one man...
Prabhupada: Yes. He became very angry and chastised me.
Jagajivana: Srila Prabhupada, was this during a lecture by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jagajivana: Was this during a lecture?
Prabhupada: Yes. I was not... One of my old brother, he, he wanted to speak something. So I leaned my... I immediately became... (laughter) So he chastised him more than me.
Devotee (2): When Lord Caitanya chastised someone more than Advaita Acarya, Advaita felt that He had been neglected 'cause he had not received a greater chastisement.
Prabhupada: He wanted to be chastised, so Caitanya fulfilled His desire. (end)
Morning Walk -- April 9, 1975, Mayapur
750409mw.may
Morning Walk
--
April 9, 1975, Mayapur
Prabhupada: ...think that I am going to die very soon. You know that Romaharsana?
Satsvarupa: Romaharsana?
Prabhupada: Eh? Romaharsana?
Satsvarupa: Who Balarama killed?
Prabhupada: No, another. Lomarsa, Lomarsa Muni. He would die when all the hairs on the body will fall down. And each hair will fall down after the death of one Brahma. So he was chanting on the sea, and Narada Muni was passing: "Why don't you make a cottage?" "How long I shall live? What is the use of cottage?" He's also thinking: "I'll die."
Satsvarupa: There's also the story of that Maharaja Khatvanga, who found out that he only had a minute to live. What did he do, that he...? You say that he surrendered at once.
Prabhupada: He surrendered to Krsna. That's all. Hmmm. Go this...
Devotee: Prabhupada, if we, if we increase our devotional activities, then we automatically become satisfied, and then detached from material life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur
Tuesday, April 20, 2010
"Lions Are Better Than Marxists"
New Delhi, Novewmber 29, 1975
Prabhupada: So many kalakendras. Kala means cheating, kala. In Bengal, when it is called kala, kala deki dichi means cheating... (Hindi) I think in other countries also somewhere, they do so, that "I cannot do anything." Eh? In your country do they not like showing this thumb?
Hamsaduta: No.
Devotee (2): what does that mean?
Prabhupada: In India it is. Means "You are useless. You could not do anything."
Passerby: Good morning, sir.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. There are so many kalakendras but no kendra for understanding atma. Huh? Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. In Bhagavata it is said, apasyatam. They do not know what is atma-tattvam, these rascals. Grhesu grhamedhinam. Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. These rascals, they do not know atma-tattva, the science of self-realization. Bahir-artha-maninah. They have been simply external. They are giving importance to the music, but the person who is playing the music, he has no information. He is thinking this tongue is vibrating music, such a rascal. If the tongue is vibrating music, then why -- he is dead -- why the tongue does not play music anymore? And the ear is there. Why he does not hear any more music? If this body is all, then the body is there, the tongue is there, the ear is there -- why there is no response of the music? Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. And these rascals, they do not know who is the person who is singing and who is hearing. Therefore they have been called as mudhas. Who is singing, who is hearing, he does not know. Apasyatam atma-tattvam grhesu grhamedhinam [SB 2.1.2].
Devotee (1): You were saying in Mauritius that they are imperfect and they are taking advice from the imperfect. Therefore very difficult for them to understand, because they don't take advice from the perfect person, Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...apasyatam. They cannot see. They see only that the tongue is vibrating, the ear is hearing. And the dead man, the same ear is there, the tongue is there. Why there is no music? What they will answer?
Tejas: They say it's a chemical interaction.
Prabhupada: What is that chemical? Eh? Why talk nonsense? Chemical reaction? Bring that chemical and let him hear again. What is the answer? Why do they say nonsense which he does not know? Chemical reaction, if it is chemical reaction, bring chemical and inject it. What is the answer?
Harikesa: That chemical is very complicated. They haven't found...
Prabhupada: Then you do not know. First of all admit you are talking nonsense. The chemical you do not know. Still you are talking nonsense. Therefore you are rascal. Why do you talk nonsense if you do not know? What is the answer? If you do not know, why do you talk just like wise man? Then you are a nonsense. Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams... [Bg. 2.11]. You are talking like a very learned scientist, but you are a rascal, fool. Challenge them like that.
Tejas: They think that today they do not know...
Prabhupada: "They think."
Tejas: ...but tomorrow, they think, will know.
Prabhupada: That is another rascal point. Therefore I say, "Kick them on their face tomorrow." He's offering postdated check. (laughter) Eh? Even if you are coming of a very millionaire's family, but if you give me a check postdated, shall I accept it? A sane man? No. Bring cash; then talk. (laughter) So these rascals, they have no cash. They have got only paper, postdated check. And who will accept it unless one is another fool, rascal, another rascal.
Tejas: They are bluffing.
Prabhupada: That's all. Bluffing business goes on when there are many rascals. You can bluff the rascals, not the intelligent man. Who is cheated? One who is a rascal, he is cheated. Not the intelligent man is cheated.
Harikesa: They should have their salaries paid by postdated check.
Prabhupada: No, they will not accept that. That they will not accept.
Harikesa: "In the future we will pay you."
Tejas: When you find the chemicals.
Prabhupada: "Now you starve. In future I shall pay." "How shall I eat?" "Now you starve. In future you'll get payment." You do not know what is the chemical, how it is acting, and depending on your future knowledge, and still, you are talking like a very great scientist. This rascaldom should be stopped by kicking on their face. Huh? So? Ambarisa Maharaja, do you agree?
Ambarisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Thank you. [break] ...if they know the chemicals, why they open deaf and dumb school? Let the chemical be injected and they will be cured from dumbness and deafness. And where is that chemical? Hm?
Harikesa: I mean, after all, isn't it just a matter of time, because we've already invented new skin now.
Prabhupada: Again rascaldom. Again rascaldom.
Harikesa: Yes, but just think of what we've already done. We've made new skin.
Prabhupada: What you have done? What you have done? A man... A man is...
Harikesa: I tell you, we've made new skin. If somebody gets burned we can put new skin on.
Prabhupada: A man, when he is blind, what you can do? You can simply make some experiment. Then you say, "We tried. We could not do it."
Harikesa: Ah, but now we're putting in new eyeballs.
Prabhupada: That cannot see. (laughter) That is another... So how they are bluffing, just see.
Harikesa: In Russia they've made dogs with two heads. They've put another head on a dog in Russia, and now the dog has two heads.
Tejas: Really?
Harikesa: Yes.
Tejas: Such advancement.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tejas: Such advancement, a two-headed dog.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gopala Krsna: Eventually they're going to try to have men with two heads. They first experiment with animals and then try it on men.
Prabhupada: Therefore Ravana had ten heads, and he was killed in spite of ten heads. Still, he could not save himself from the hands of Rama, although he had ten heads. He thought that "I have now ten heads. Who can be more intelligent than me?" And still, Ramacandra proved, "Yes, I am better intelligent than you." [break] ...Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan?
Tejas: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Gopala Krsna: [break] ...even though we're here. Kalakendra.
Prabhupada: What is that, here?
Gopala Krsna: You said there's a kendra everywhere, kala.
Prabhupada: Kala means this. (laughter) Ei kala. [break] Prabhakara was working here. He was employed here. He was staying on that room, so I also stayed with him two days. [break] ...count of his unsteadiness he has lost so many good jobs. I do
not know...
Tejas: Some man was telling me that... One M.P. was telling me that there are many criminal cases against him also now.
Gopala Krsna: How did you find that out?
Tejas: He told me. I don't know why. This Dr. Lokescandra? He told me that "Acarya Prabhakara has many criminal cases against him."
Prabhupada: [break] Which way we have to go?
Tejas: This way, Srila Prabhupada.
Devotee (1): There was a poster on the wall, said they are opening a big exhibition of Russian books in Punjab, and the chief minister, he is going to open that.
Prabhupada: Many books?
Devotee (1): Big exhibition of Russian books. They are teaching the Russian (indistinct) all over India. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: So why don't you exhibit our books? Let them come to competition. What books we have got, compare with our books.
Devotee (1): What they say is that this philosophy is very old. They say that this philosophy is very old.
Prabhupada: Yes. So we are giving old wine in new bottle. If it is old, why the up-to-date Western boys are taking? It may be old for you rascals, but those who are intelligent...
Devotee (1): They think that they are frustrated. They have nothing more to do except this.
Prabhupada: Then why they take this? Why not your philosophy? Why they take this philosophy? Why not the Russian philosophy?
Devotee (1): So they are going to take. That's the reason they are putting the Russian books.
Harikesa: Well, lots of people take the Russian philosophy.
Prabhupada: No, they are exhibiting here in India, but why in Europe, America, they are not taking?
Harikesa: But there are many Marxists in America. Like on the subway...
Prabhupada: Many Marxists, there are many capitalists. That is another thing. But why the Russians could not make everyone Marxist in spite of so much propaganda? What is the basic principle of Russian philosophy?
Tejas: What is the basic principle?
Hamsaduta: Follow the teachings of Marx.
Prabhupada: No, no. What is that teaching?
Gopala Krsna: Everything belongs to the state.
Ambarisa: The worker is supreme.
Hamsaduta: Everyone should work for the state, and the state will distribute fairly.
Krsna-caitanya: The basis of the philosophy is that matter is supreme.
Ambarisa: And all matter is the same.
Prabhupada: Matter is supreme. Then why the matter does not move independently?
Krsna-caitanya: That they have no answer.
Prabhupada: Then? Then another rascal. If matter is supreme, why don't you combine matter and let it move. So what is that supreme which is moving this matter? If they do not know, then again a rascal, in spite of so much philosophy and so much communism. Why, when Stalin and Lenin died, they simply remained matter? Why it was not moving? Where is that matter?
Gopala Krsna: That they are working on.
Prabhupada: Again the same rascal. Again another rascal. They are working; therefore we must be satisfied. Postdated check. How you say all these things?
Harikesa: Well, their philosophy is just a social philosophy.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, it is not perfect.
Harikesa: They say, "From everybody according to their means and to everybody according to their needs." As you work...
Prabhupada: Then why there are so many enemies? Why the Americans do not like them, Chinese do not like them?
Devotee (3): Now they write in the mod... I see in the modern textbook in the Delhi schools. They make counterproposal. They said, "Because the Indian philosophy is not so perfect, India has become economically backwards on account of following the..."
Prabhupada: What economical backwards?
Devotee (3): They say India is very poor country.
Prabhupada: No. Indians economical backwards because they have given up their own culture. When India was actually standing on the old culture, they were never defeated. Even the Mohammedans, they ruled over India for eight hundred years, but they could not defeat the Indian culture. But the British government are clever. They spoiled the Indian culture. Therefore they are poverty-stricken. Otherwise if India would have continued in his own culture... The Gandhi started the boycott movement. So Indian culture automatically boycotted anything foreign. We know in our childhood nothing foreign-made could be used in some ceremony. Even this cloth, it must be country-made, that, what is called?
Hamsaduta: Khadi.
Prabhupada: Khadi, yes. No mill-made cloth can be used. That was Indian culture. They would not touch even foreign medicine. Dr. Bose, Kartick Chandra Bose, he told me that "You do not know how much we had to flatter to accept this British medicine." They would not touch quinine, anything foreign-made. This was Indian culture.
Harikesa: Well, the basic flaw with Indian culture is that some people are very rich and some people are very poor.
Prabhupada: No, no. Then why in your country there are hippies lying on the street? Why? Why they have accepted poverty?
Harikesa: That's a temporary thing.
Prabhupada: India is poor and rich, and why they are voluntarily poor?
Harikesa: That was because they were all intoxicated.
Prabhupada: Then you cannot say that there is no poor. There is voluntarily poor. You cannot say there is no poor.
Harikesa: Well, in our Russian system we are trying to abolish that poor by making, take money from the rich.
Prabhupada: Again that, "We are trying to abolish," the postdated check again.
Ambarisa: In Russia, everyone is poor.
Prabhupada: Everyone is poor.
Harikesa: But at least they're equal.
Prabhupada: Well, when you become poor, then naturally it is equal. There is no rich man. Naturally you become equal. If everyone is fool, then everyone is equal. That's all.
Harikesa: But everybody in Russia is so strong.
Prabhupada: What is that strong?
Ambarisa: They can lift all kinds of weight and fight very strongly. Very strong people. So they're not starving.
Prabhupada: No, no, they are stronger than the lions and the elephant? Are they stronger than these animals? Are they? Are the Russians stronger than the elephant and the lion?
Harikesa: But they're stronger than the Europeans.
Prabhupada: Then the lion is better than them. The elephant is better than them. Why do you call them, "They are animals"? They are better situated. One lion can kill hundreds of Russians. Then lion is better than the Russian? You have to accept that.
Harikesa: I mean, but they're not poor because they're so, you know, they're well fed.
Prabhupada: There everyone is poor, begging. You are talking theoretically. I went to Moscow. The taxi driver was wanting something excess. They are so poor, begging, "Give me something more." They are so poor. Most of the people, they are walking on the street. There is no taxi. Nobody can pay for taxi. This is their situation.
Harikesa: Yes, but why should somebody be rich and I be poor? What gives him the right to have money?
Prabhupada: That is everywhere. That is called, that... He is born in a rich family; I am born in a poor family. So why this is happening?
Harikesa: Yes, that's unfair. I mean, I should take his money.
Prabhupada: No, no, not unfair. This is nature's arrangement, uccavacca. Why one has become animal? Why one has become man? The same living entity.
Harikesa: Chance.
Prabhupada: Again rascaldom, "chance." Who is making this chance? Can I make you by chance a dog? That is not possible. There is no such chance. It is by karma-phala. Karanam guna-sangah. The chance is that you are rascal, fool; you do not know what chance will make me what. Just like you infect some disease; you suffer from that disease. So this happens to the rascal. One who is intelligent, he does not infect. He is always cautious. Therefore this chance of infection is not there. Actually you cannot say "chance." It is your ignorance. You create chance. Because you do not know what will happen after something, on account of ignorance it is chance. But if you are fully aware, there is no question of chance. An intelligent student, he does not think, "By chance I may be passed." He reads properly. He appears in the examination, give the proper answer. It is not chance. And if he thinks, "All right, by chance I will be passing the..." Is it very intelligent? These rascals are talking like that. There is no question of chance. On account of ignorance they commit something infectious, and they suffer. And because they cannot explain, they say it is chance. It is not chance. It is due to some cause.
Harikesa: Actually Marx was very expert at giving economic causes. For example, he said that they would start off with this capitalistic system.
Prabhupada: No, what Marx has explained that a man is born in a rich family, from the birth he is millionaire, and another man is trying whole life, but he could not secure more than his provision? That's all. Why this is here?
Harikesa: That's due to the capitalistic system. Because he is born in a certain kind of a system, then this hereditary birth and wealth comes. But that capitalistic system, if it's more in a socialistic or communistic system, then there is no possibility of that happening. So therefore this inequality doesn't exist.
Prabhupada: They are trying for the last fifty years. Why the capitalism is not yet gone? Fifty years at least. They started their movement in 1917. Huh? So how many years? More than fifty. Sixty years. Sixty years. What they have done, progress?
Harikesa: Well, actually, Russia was the wrong place for communism to go. According to Marx, Russia was the last place that should be communistic, because it was agricultural. But the first place should have been like England,
Prabhupada: So why they did not do that? Another rascaldom. Why you are taking chance in Russia, the foolish country?
Harikesa: So that when if a country like England or America would become communistic, that would be very good.
Prabhupada: Why would become? It is not the dictation of rascal Marx. Why they would? Why he is expecting like a fool like that? Why they would accept that philosophy?
Harikesa: Well, they will have to accept it.
Prabhupada: No, when they... That is another thing. Again, "they will have," future. Again rascal.
Harikesa: Because just like New York has gone become bankrupt, so all the cities will go bankrupt, and then people will not have employment.
Prabhupada: That is another thing. Bankrupt does not mean their philosophy is lost. Bankrupt may be due to some other reason. That does not mean the capitalistic philosophy is finished.
Harikesa: Well, actually the communistic philosophy is strictly economic.
Prabhupada: Not actually. Don't say "actually." Sometimes you say "accidentally" and sometimes "actually." Such a rascal. (laughter) "By some chance" and sometimes "actually."
Hamsaduta: Marx's point was that the different systems, they would deteriorate one into the other, and eventually all these countries would have to... They would just evolve into that communistic way of life. That was his, his idea.
Prabhupada: No, no, then when there will be no capital, naturally they will be communistic. That's all. Nothing to eat...
Hamsaduta: So it's just some... It's not a philosophy but it's a position that one has to accept out of desperation.
Prabhupada: So that is described in the Bhagavatam, that they will be embarrassed with so many problems. That is not a communistic idea. That is the future of Kali-yuga. That is mentioned in the Bhagavatam. Achinna-dara-dravina gacchanti giri-kananam. They will be harassed by famine, taxation, and starvation. Naturally they will be disappointed. Achinna. That is already told.
Hamsaduta: Marx, he studied history from a given point and then he just calculated the consequences.
Prabhupada: No, that point is not new point. It is already stated five thousand years ago. So what credit he has got? If I say, "Now you are thirty-four years. At the end of hundred years you will die," is that discovery?
Hamsaduta: No. But that was...
Prabhupada: Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it.
Hamsaduta: But for this he's got so much credit because he said this.
Prabhupada: So he gets credit from the rascals and fools. That's all.
Harikesa: Actually, his philosophy is not something that can be put into action, but he's simply predicting what will be.
Prabhupada: That we can say also from our Bhagavata. That is not a very new thing. Those who are rascal, fools, for them it is new thing, and those who are student of Srimad-Bhagavatam, it is not new point.
Hamsaduta: I think Plato also predicted.
Harikesa: Yes.
Hamsaduta: We noticed this year at the book fair that they gave so many stands to the Communist publishers. There were at least ten or fifteen stands. And formerly they were not even allowed. They were not allowed. There was not a single one. Three years ago there was not a single stand which had Communist literature in the book fair, and this year there must have been fifteen.
Gopala Krsna: There's a worldwide trend towards communism today.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Gopala Krsna: There's a worldwide trend towards communism. In Europe, communism is becoming very strong. Italy has almost become communistic. Communist party has captured...
Krsna-caitanya: Portugal.
Gopala Krsna: Portugal, there's a struggle going on. Even in France the Communist party is very, very strong.
Prabhupada: Disappointment. Disappointment. People are becoming more and more poverty-stricken. This is the...
Hamsaduta: They are forced to accept it.
Prabhupada: The European economic problem is failure.
Gopala Krsna: Actually this oil crisis has been of great help to the Communists, because because of this oil crisis the world economy has fallen, and as people become frustrated, more and more people are turning towards communism.
Prabhupada: But what the Communist has done for the world benefit?
Harikesa: Well, it's a nice philosophy.
Prabhupada: In India there are many Communists, but the price of foodstuff increasing daily. What they can do?
Hamsaduta: Well, they say "If we were in power, this would not happen."
Prabhupada: So why don't you become in power? You are strong. And what they have done, those who are already in the power? There is no food. One has to give line for two hours to get foodstuff. I have seen in Moscow.
Ambarisa: They don't have any food. They have to buy from the United States.
Krsna-caitanya: Importing from India.
Prabhupada: Yes, importing India, America.
Krsna-caitanya: They don't have any bananas, mangoes, nothing.
Prabhupada: So this rascaldom is going on.
Hamsaduta: People are so foolish...
Prabhupada: And people here... In the Moscow I have seen, they have no choice. You have to take whatever government supplies.
Hamsaduta: There is no food in the market.
Prabhupada: If you want to eat something -- everyone has got desire -- you cannot get. You cannot get. There is no fruit; there is no flower.
Hamsaduta: When I was there, all we could find was some potatoes, some beets, and some cabbage. That's all. Nothing else.
Prabhupada: That's all, yes.
Devotee (3): Very poor country.
Harikesa: But also in Russia you can't grow many things. It's very cold.
Hamsaduta: But you can import.
Prabhupada: Therefore naturally they are condemned.
Harikesa: So when you put the communistic system somewhere where you can grow these things, it will be very nice.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Harikesa: You take that system and put it in a place where you can grow all these things. Then it will be nice.
Prabhupada: But if you bring communism, you will not be able to grow. You are condemned immediately. Nature will restrict supply. Which way?
Tejas: Left, Srila Prabhupada.
Harikesa: China is doing very nicely.
Prabhupada: Why not Russia?
Harikesa: Well, China has more facility to grow.
Prabhupada: Then what is the use of Russian philosophy if he has no facility?
Harikesa: Well, actually it's not Russian philosophy. Chinese philosophy. I just read a report from French reporters that went into China. They say China is growing...
Prabhupada: Then it is not accident. There must be some cause. Why do you say accident? Can you say "Accidentally Chinese are better situated"? Why don't you accidentally you become better situated? Then there must be controller.
Harikesa: Mao Tse Tung.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: Mao Tse Tung.
Prabhupada: No, whatever it may be, if one is better situated and another is not, there must be some management above that.
Harikesa: They say their great nationalistic spirit is holding together the country. They have a great nationalistic spirit. They are very loyal.
Prabhupada: That spirit is there amongst the dogs. (laughter) That is not very great qualification. The dog has also: "Oh, yow! Why you have come here? Gow! Gow! Gow!" That is dog spirit. This dog is going peacefully. As soon as he will see another dog, immediately fight begin. Who is this (sic:) Coppernics?
Ambarisa: Copernicus. He was a scientist. Ancient... well, long time ago. He was the one that first said that...
Hamsaduta: He made a model of the universe, I think.
Prabhupada: What is that scientific?
Hamsaduta: He made a model of the universe.
Ambarisa: With the sun in the center. It was a revolutionary idea.
Prabhupada: Another rascal.
Harikesa: He used to sit on top of his roof and think.
Prabhupada: And fell down? (laughter) What is this?
Gopala Krsna: Another (Hindi) kalakendra.
Prabhupada: Again. All kalakendra, this kendra.
Gopala Krsna: There's so many next to our temple.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Gopala Krsna: Next to our temple there's so many kalakendras.
Krsna-caitanya: Kala has another meaning of "art."
Prabhupada: [break] ...people engage in academic kalakendra, and the price of rice is rising. No rice. Rice kala. "My dear kalakendra, can you supply me rice?" "No." (laughter)
Tejas: In Bombay, even if any businessman brings more than five kgs of rice, they will seize him. They search the baggage many times in the trains at the station.
Prabhupada: You see. This is the kalakendra.
Hamsaduta: There was a political cartoon that people were shouting for food to Indira Gandhi, and the minister was saying, "The people want food." And she said, "But tomorrow we're going to have television."
Prabhupada: Television. Kalakendra. [break] ...kalakendra? This big house.
Harikesa: Rabindra...
Prabhupada: Rabindranath. Oh, he is the foremost kala, Rabindranath Tagore. He has shown biggest kala to the people of India.
Devotee (1): Aurobindo kalakendra.
Prabhupada: Aurobindo kala.
Devotee (1): Very big. He spent a lot of money for that Victoria House.
Prabhupada: But nobody is coming there, here or there. They have big, big Rabindra kala and nobody is trying to taste it.
Gopala Krsna: When they have programs, a lot of people come.
Prabhupada: That... You make any dog dance; they will come. That is not... In the name of Rabindranath Tagore...
Harikesa: That may even be Rabindranath Tagore dancing.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: When the dog is dancing, it may even be Rabindranath Tagore.
Prabhupada: Rabindranath became very popular on account of his introducing Maghmela, where young boys and girls could easily meet. Yes. (aside:) Jaya. Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Hamsaduta: Hare Krsna.
Tejas: Their current exhibition is "Women in the World."
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) Some exhibition is going on?
Tejas: It's "Women in the World."
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughter) What is that "Women in the World"?
Ambarisa: Sixteen-ounce brain, I think.
Gopala Krsna: They had a world conference of women in Mexico recently, where every country sent a delegation of women.
Prabhupada: To become man? (laughter)
Harikesa: Yes, nowadays we're doing that also.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughter) So you become woman. [break] ...here. Kala, kala?
Tejas: Stones.
Prabhupada: Yes. Kala means craftsmanship. Why it is not here, lacking? No money. The kala cannot be shown without money. I never saw New Delhi in such nasty condition.
Tejas: It's deteriorating.
Prabhupada: Yes, very much deteriorating. It means finished. The kala is finished now. You see? Now, "Natural History." So many dead stone they have brought, and so costly building, and showing "natural history." This is going on, simply cheating and bluffing at the cost of poor man's blood. Against this principle the communist movement is good. There are so many buildings, but there is not a single building where spiritual culture is discussed, although it is the real basis of life. (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...and not getting sufficient milk, their growth is checked. This is kalakendra.
Harikesa: They have powdered milk.
Prabhupada: That is simply cheating, powdered milk. It is white water, that's all. Powdered milk means white water. It has no value.
Hamsaduta: In Moscow too, Anand Shanti, he was telling. When we were there we wanted to buy milk, and they had milk in bottles, but he told me, he said, "This is not milk." He said "First they dehydrate it, make it to powder. Then they again add water and put it in the bottle, because in this way they can keep it a long time." So we couldn't find any real milk even in Moscow, the biggest city in the country.
Prabhupada: I think Moscow they have milk and butter.
Hamsaduta: At least when I was there we couldn't find any.
Prabhupada: Oh, then finished. All cows finished, cutting throat.
Hamsaduta: Butter they have, but it's not very good quality.
Prabhupada: Hm. Adulterate. I thought at least they have got little milk and butter, but that is also finished. [break]
Tejas: ...the milkman tries to bring the cow to the asrama, they arrest the milkman. They take his cow away from him. They don't even allow that they can bring the cow to the people any more. They seized. He lost one cow. He has to sneak the cow down the back alley so that they can bring some cow fodder in.
Prabhupada: [break] ...zation will collapse very soon, all over the world. It will collapse. Either you may bring this ism or that ism, this civilization will collapse. People will become mad, being harassed in so many ways. When one is harassed in so many problems, he commits suicide. So that position is coming.
Hamsaduta: Or he starts a war.
Prabhupada: Yes. When the government cannot adjust, they start a war. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi
Prabhupada: So many kalakendras. Kala means cheating, kala. In Bengal, when it is called kala, kala deki dichi means cheating... (Hindi) I think in other countries also somewhere, they do so, that "I cannot do anything." Eh? In your country do they not like showing this thumb?
Hamsaduta: No.
Devotee (2): what does that mean?
Prabhupada: In India it is. Means "You are useless. You could not do anything."
Passerby: Good morning, sir.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. There are so many kalakendras but no kendra for understanding atma. Huh? Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. In Bhagavata it is said, apasyatam. They do not know what is atma-tattvam, these rascals. Grhesu grhamedhinam. Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. These rascals, they do not know atma-tattva, the science of self-realization. Bahir-artha-maninah. They have been simply external. They are giving importance to the music, but the person who is playing the music, he has no information. He is thinking this tongue is vibrating music, such a rascal. If the tongue is vibrating music, then why -- he is dead -- why the tongue does not play music anymore? And the ear is there. Why he does not hear any more music? If this body is all, then the body is there, the tongue is there, the ear is there -- why there is no response of the music? Apasyatam atma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. And these rascals, they do not know who is the person who is singing and who is hearing. Therefore they have been called as mudhas. Who is singing, who is hearing, he does not know. Apasyatam atma-tattvam grhesu grhamedhinam [SB 2.1.2].
Devotee (1): You were saying in Mauritius that they are imperfect and they are taking advice from the imperfect. Therefore very difficult for them to understand, because they don't take advice from the perfect person, Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...apasyatam. They cannot see. They see only that the tongue is vibrating, the ear is hearing. And the dead man, the same ear is there, the tongue is there. Why there is no music? What they will answer?
Tejas: They say it's a chemical interaction.
Prabhupada: What is that chemical? Eh? Why talk nonsense? Chemical reaction? Bring that chemical and let him hear again. What is the answer? Why do they say nonsense which he does not know? Chemical reaction, if it is chemical reaction, bring chemical and inject it. What is the answer?
Harikesa: That chemical is very complicated. They haven't found...
Prabhupada: Then you do not know. First of all admit you are talking nonsense. The chemical you do not know. Still you are talking nonsense. Therefore you are rascal. Why do you talk nonsense if you do not know? What is the answer? If you do not know, why do you talk just like wise man? Then you are a nonsense. Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams... [Bg. 2.11]. You are talking like a very learned scientist, but you are a rascal, fool. Challenge them like that.
Tejas: They think that today they do not know...
Prabhupada: "They think."
Tejas: ...but tomorrow, they think, will know.
Prabhupada: That is another rascal point. Therefore I say, "Kick them on their face tomorrow." He's offering postdated check. (laughter) Eh? Even if you are coming of a very millionaire's family, but if you give me a check postdated, shall I accept it? A sane man? No. Bring cash; then talk. (laughter) So these rascals, they have no cash. They have got only paper, postdated check. And who will accept it unless one is another fool, rascal, another rascal.
Tejas: They are bluffing.
Prabhupada: That's all. Bluffing business goes on when there are many rascals. You can bluff the rascals, not the intelligent man. Who is cheated? One who is a rascal, he is cheated. Not the intelligent man is cheated.
Harikesa: They should have their salaries paid by postdated check.
Prabhupada: No, they will not accept that. That they will not accept.
Harikesa: "In the future we will pay you."
Tejas: When you find the chemicals.
Prabhupada: "Now you starve. In future I shall pay." "How shall I eat?" "Now you starve. In future you'll get payment." You do not know what is the chemical, how it is acting, and depending on your future knowledge, and still, you are talking like a very great scientist. This rascaldom should be stopped by kicking on their face. Huh? So? Ambarisa Maharaja, do you agree?
Ambarisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Thank you. [break] ...if they know the chemicals, why they open deaf and dumb school? Let the chemical be injected and they will be cured from dumbness and deafness. And where is that chemical? Hm?
Harikesa: I mean, after all, isn't it just a matter of time, because we've already invented new skin now.
Prabhupada: Again rascaldom. Again rascaldom.
Harikesa: Yes, but just think of what we've already done. We've made new skin.
Prabhupada: What you have done? What you have done? A man... A man is...
Harikesa: I tell you, we've made new skin. If somebody gets burned we can put new skin on.
Prabhupada: A man, when he is blind, what you can do? You can simply make some experiment. Then you say, "We tried. We could not do it."
Harikesa: Ah, but now we're putting in new eyeballs.
Prabhupada: That cannot see. (laughter) That is another... So how they are bluffing, just see.
Harikesa: In Russia they've made dogs with two heads. They've put another head on a dog in Russia, and now the dog has two heads.
Tejas: Really?
Harikesa: Yes.
Tejas: Such advancement.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tejas: Such advancement, a two-headed dog.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gopala Krsna: Eventually they're going to try to have men with two heads. They first experiment with animals and then try it on men.
Prabhupada: Therefore Ravana had ten heads, and he was killed in spite of ten heads. Still, he could not save himself from the hands of Rama, although he had ten heads. He thought that "I have now ten heads. Who can be more intelligent than me?" And still, Ramacandra proved, "Yes, I am better intelligent than you." [break] ...Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan?
Tejas: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Gopala Krsna: [break] ...even though we're here. Kalakendra.
Prabhupada: What is that, here?
Gopala Krsna: You said there's a kendra everywhere, kala.
Prabhupada: Kala means this. (laughter) Ei kala. [break] Prabhakara was working here. He was employed here. He was staying on that room, so I also stayed with him two days. [break] ...count of his unsteadiness he has lost so many good jobs. I do
not know...
Tejas: Some man was telling me that... One M.P. was telling me that there are many criminal cases against him also now.
Gopala Krsna: How did you find that out?
Tejas: He told me. I don't know why. This Dr. Lokescandra? He told me that "Acarya Prabhakara has many criminal cases against him."
Prabhupada: [break] Which way we have to go?
Tejas: This way, Srila Prabhupada.
Devotee (1): There was a poster on the wall, said they are opening a big exhibition of Russian books in Punjab, and the chief minister, he is going to open that.
Prabhupada: Many books?
Devotee (1): Big exhibition of Russian books. They are teaching the Russian (indistinct) all over India. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: So why don't you exhibit our books? Let them come to competition. What books we have got, compare with our books.
Devotee (1): What they say is that this philosophy is very old. They say that this philosophy is very old.
Prabhupada: Yes. So we are giving old wine in new bottle. If it is old, why the up-to-date Western boys are taking? It may be old for you rascals, but those who are intelligent...
Devotee (1): They think that they are frustrated. They have nothing more to do except this.
Prabhupada: Then why they take this? Why not your philosophy? Why they take this philosophy? Why not the Russian philosophy?
Devotee (1): So they are going to take. That's the reason they are putting the Russian books.
Harikesa: Well, lots of people take the Russian philosophy.
Prabhupada: No, they are exhibiting here in India, but why in Europe, America, they are not taking?
Harikesa: But there are many Marxists in America. Like on the subway...
Prabhupada: Many Marxists, there are many capitalists. That is another thing. But why the Russians could not make everyone Marxist in spite of so much propaganda? What is the basic principle of Russian philosophy?
Tejas: What is the basic principle?
Hamsaduta: Follow the teachings of Marx.
Prabhupada: No, no. What is that teaching?
Gopala Krsna: Everything belongs to the state.
Ambarisa: The worker is supreme.
Hamsaduta: Everyone should work for the state, and the state will distribute fairly.
Krsna-caitanya: The basis of the philosophy is that matter is supreme.
Ambarisa: And all matter is the same.
Prabhupada: Matter is supreme. Then why the matter does not move independently?
Krsna-caitanya: That they have no answer.
Prabhupada: Then? Then another rascal. If matter is supreme, why don't you combine matter and let it move. So what is that supreme which is moving this matter? If they do not know, then again a rascal, in spite of so much philosophy and so much communism. Why, when Stalin and Lenin died, they simply remained matter? Why it was not moving? Where is that matter?
Gopala Krsna: That they are working on.
Prabhupada: Again the same rascal. Again another rascal. They are working; therefore we must be satisfied. Postdated check. How you say all these things?
Harikesa: Well, their philosophy is just a social philosophy.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, it is not perfect.
Harikesa: They say, "From everybody according to their means and to everybody according to their needs." As you work...
Prabhupada: Then why there are so many enemies? Why the Americans do not like them, Chinese do not like them?
Devotee (3): Now they write in the mod... I see in the modern textbook in the Delhi schools. They make counterproposal. They said, "Because the Indian philosophy is not so perfect, India has become economically backwards on account of following the..."
Prabhupada: What economical backwards?
Devotee (3): They say India is very poor country.
Prabhupada: No. Indians economical backwards because they have given up their own culture. When India was actually standing on the old culture, they were never defeated. Even the Mohammedans, they ruled over India for eight hundred years, but they could not defeat the Indian culture. But the British government are clever. They spoiled the Indian culture. Therefore they are poverty-stricken. Otherwise if India would have continued in his own culture... The Gandhi started the boycott movement. So Indian culture automatically boycotted anything foreign. We know in our childhood nothing foreign-made could be used in some ceremony. Even this cloth, it must be country-made, that, what is called?
Hamsaduta: Khadi.
Prabhupada: Khadi, yes. No mill-made cloth can be used. That was Indian culture. They would not touch even foreign medicine. Dr. Bose, Kartick Chandra Bose, he told me that "You do not know how much we had to flatter to accept this British medicine." They would not touch quinine, anything foreign-made. This was Indian culture.
Harikesa: Well, the basic flaw with Indian culture is that some people are very rich and some people are very poor.
Prabhupada: No, no. Then why in your country there are hippies lying on the street? Why? Why they have accepted poverty?
Harikesa: That's a temporary thing.
Prabhupada: India is poor and rich, and why they are voluntarily poor?
Harikesa: That was because they were all intoxicated.
Prabhupada: Then you cannot say that there is no poor. There is voluntarily poor. You cannot say there is no poor.
Harikesa: Well, in our Russian system we are trying to abolish that poor by making, take money from the rich.
Prabhupada: Again that, "We are trying to abolish," the postdated check again.
Ambarisa: In Russia, everyone is poor.
Prabhupada: Everyone is poor.
Harikesa: But at least they're equal.
Prabhupada: Well, when you become poor, then naturally it is equal. There is no rich man. Naturally you become equal. If everyone is fool, then everyone is equal. That's all.
Harikesa: But everybody in Russia is so strong.
Prabhupada: What is that strong?
Ambarisa: They can lift all kinds of weight and fight very strongly. Very strong people. So they're not starving.
Prabhupada: No, no, they are stronger than the lions and the elephant? Are they stronger than these animals? Are they? Are the Russians stronger than the elephant and the lion?
Harikesa: But they're stronger than the Europeans.
Prabhupada: Then the lion is better than them. The elephant is better than them. Why do you call them, "They are animals"? They are better situated. One lion can kill hundreds of Russians. Then lion is better than the Russian? You have to accept that.
Harikesa: I mean, but they're not poor because they're so, you know, they're well fed.
Prabhupada: There everyone is poor, begging. You are talking theoretically. I went to Moscow. The taxi driver was wanting something excess. They are so poor, begging, "Give me something more." They are so poor. Most of the people, they are walking on the street. There is no taxi. Nobody can pay for taxi. This is their situation.
Harikesa: Yes, but why should somebody be rich and I be poor? What gives him the right to have money?
Prabhupada: That is everywhere. That is called, that... He is born in a rich family; I am born in a poor family. So why this is happening?
Harikesa: Yes, that's unfair. I mean, I should take his money.
Prabhupada: No, no, not unfair. This is nature's arrangement, uccavacca. Why one has become animal? Why one has become man? The same living entity.
Harikesa: Chance.
Prabhupada: Again rascaldom, "chance." Who is making this chance? Can I make you by chance a dog? That is not possible. There is no such chance. It is by karma-phala. Karanam guna-sangah. The chance is that you are rascal, fool; you do not know what chance will make me what. Just like you infect some disease; you suffer from that disease. So this happens to the rascal. One who is intelligent, he does not infect. He is always cautious. Therefore this chance of infection is not there. Actually you cannot say "chance." It is your ignorance. You create chance. Because you do not know what will happen after something, on account of ignorance it is chance. But if you are fully aware, there is no question of chance. An intelligent student, he does not think, "By chance I may be passed." He reads properly. He appears in the examination, give the proper answer. It is not chance. And if he thinks, "All right, by chance I will be passing the..." Is it very intelligent? These rascals are talking like that. There is no question of chance. On account of ignorance they commit something infectious, and they suffer. And because they cannot explain, they say it is chance. It is not chance. It is due to some cause.
Harikesa: Actually Marx was very expert at giving economic causes. For example, he said that they would start off with this capitalistic system.
Prabhupada: No, what Marx has explained that a man is born in a rich family, from the birth he is millionaire, and another man is trying whole life, but he could not secure more than his provision? That's all. Why this is here?
Harikesa: That's due to the capitalistic system. Because he is born in a certain kind of a system, then this hereditary birth and wealth comes. But that capitalistic system, if it's more in a socialistic or communistic system, then there is no possibility of that happening. So therefore this inequality doesn't exist.
Prabhupada: They are trying for the last fifty years. Why the capitalism is not yet gone? Fifty years at least. They started their movement in 1917. Huh? So how many years? More than fifty. Sixty years. Sixty years. What they have done, progress?
Harikesa: Well, actually, Russia was the wrong place for communism to go. According to Marx, Russia was the last place that should be communistic, because it was agricultural. But the first place should have been like England,
Prabhupada: So why they did not do that? Another rascaldom. Why you are taking chance in Russia, the foolish country?
Harikesa: So that when if a country like England or America would become communistic, that would be very good.
Prabhupada: Why would become? It is not the dictation of rascal Marx. Why they would? Why he is expecting like a fool like that? Why they would accept that philosophy?
Harikesa: Well, they will have to accept it.
Prabhupada: No, when they... That is another thing. Again, "they will have," future. Again rascal.
Harikesa: Because just like New York has gone become bankrupt, so all the cities will go bankrupt, and then people will not have employment.
Prabhupada: That is another thing. Bankrupt does not mean their philosophy is lost. Bankrupt may be due to some other reason. That does not mean the capitalistic philosophy is finished.
Harikesa: Well, actually the communistic philosophy is strictly economic.
Prabhupada: Not actually. Don't say "actually." Sometimes you say "accidentally" and sometimes "actually." Such a rascal. (laughter) "By some chance" and sometimes "actually."
Hamsaduta: Marx's point was that the different systems, they would deteriorate one into the other, and eventually all these countries would have to... They would just evolve into that communistic way of life. That was his, his idea.
Prabhupada: No, no, then when there will be no capital, naturally they will be communistic. That's all. Nothing to eat...
Hamsaduta: So it's just some... It's not a philosophy but it's a position that one has to accept out of desperation.
Prabhupada: So that is described in the Bhagavatam, that they will be embarrassed with so many problems. That is not a communistic idea. That is the future of Kali-yuga. That is mentioned in the Bhagavatam. Achinna-dara-dravina gacchanti giri-kananam. They will be harassed by famine, taxation, and starvation. Naturally they will be disappointed. Achinna. That is already told.
Hamsaduta: Marx, he studied history from a given point and then he just calculated the consequences.
Prabhupada: No, that point is not new point. It is already stated five thousand years ago. So what credit he has got? If I say, "Now you are thirty-four years. At the end of hundred years you will die," is that discovery?
Hamsaduta: No. But that was...
Prabhupada: Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it.
Hamsaduta: But for this he's got so much credit because he said this.
Prabhupada: So he gets credit from the rascals and fools. That's all.
Harikesa: Actually, his philosophy is not something that can be put into action, but he's simply predicting what will be.
Prabhupada: That we can say also from our Bhagavata. That is not a very new thing. Those who are rascal, fools, for them it is new thing, and those who are student of Srimad-Bhagavatam, it is not new point.
Hamsaduta: I think Plato also predicted.
Harikesa: Yes.
Hamsaduta: We noticed this year at the book fair that they gave so many stands to the Communist publishers. There were at least ten or fifteen stands. And formerly they were not even allowed. They were not allowed. There was not a single one. Three years ago there was not a single stand which had Communist literature in the book fair, and this year there must have been fifteen.
Gopala Krsna: There's a worldwide trend towards communism today.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Gopala Krsna: There's a worldwide trend towards communism. In Europe, communism is becoming very strong. Italy has almost become communistic. Communist party has captured...
Krsna-caitanya: Portugal.
Gopala Krsna: Portugal, there's a struggle going on. Even in France the Communist party is very, very strong.
Prabhupada: Disappointment. Disappointment. People are becoming more and more poverty-stricken. This is the...
Hamsaduta: They are forced to accept it.
Prabhupada: The European economic problem is failure.
Gopala Krsna: Actually this oil crisis has been of great help to the Communists, because because of this oil crisis the world economy has fallen, and as people become frustrated, more and more people are turning towards communism.
Prabhupada: But what the Communist has done for the world benefit?
Harikesa: Well, it's a nice philosophy.
Prabhupada: In India there are many Communists, but the price of foodstuff increasing daily. What they can do?
Hamsaduta: Well, they say "If we were in power, this would not happen."
Prabhupada: So why don't you become in power? You are strong. And what they have done, those who are already in the power? There is no food. One has to give line for two hours to get foodstuff. I have seen in Moscow.
Ambarisa: They don't have any food. They have to buy from the United States.
Krsna-caitanya: Importing from India.
Prabhupada: Yes, importing India, America.
Krsna-caitanya: They don't have any bananas, mangoes, nothing.
Prabhupada: So this rascaldom is going on.
Hamsaduta: People are so foolish...
Prabhupada: And people here... In the Moscow I have seen, they have no choice. You have to take whatever government supplies.
Hamsaduta: There is no food in the market.
Prabhupada: If you want to eat something -- everyone has got desire -- you cannot get. You cannot get. There is no fruit; there is no flower.
Hamsaduta: When I was there, all we could find was some potatoes, some beets, and some cabbage. That's all. Nothing else.
Prabhupada: That's all, yes.
Devotee (3): Very poor country.
Harikesa: But also in Russia you can't grow many things. It's very cold.
Hamsaduta: But you can import.
Prabhupada: Therefore naturally they are condemned.
Harikesa: So when you put the communistic system somewhere where you can grow these things, it will be very nice.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Harikesa: You take that system and put it in a place where you can grow all these things. Then it will be nice.
Prabhupada: But if you bring communism, you will not be able to grow. You are condemned immediately. Nature will restrict supply. Which way?
Tejas: Left, Srila Prabhupada.
Harikesa: China is doing very nicely.
Prabhupada: Why not Russia?
Harikesa: Well, China has more facility to grow.
Prabhupada: Then what is the use of Russian philosophy if he has no facility?
Harikesa: Well, actually it's not Russian philosophy. Chinese philosophy. I just read a report from French reporters that went into China. They say China is growing...
Prabhupada: Then it is not accident. There must be some cause. Why do you say accident? Can you say "Accidentally Chinese are better situated"? Why don't you accidentally you become better situated? Then there must be controller.
Harikesa: Mao Tse Tung.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: Mao Tse Tung.
Prabhupada: No, whatever it may be, if one is better situated and another is not, there must be some management above that.
Harikesa: They say their great nationalistic spirit is holding together the country. They have a great nationalistic spirit. They are very loyal.
Prabhupada: That spirit is there amongst the dogs. (laughter) That is not very great qualification. The dog has also: "Oh, yow! Why you have come here? Gow! Gow! Gow!" That is dog spirit. This dog is going peacefully. As soon as he will see another dog, immediately fight begin. Who is this (sic:) Coppernics?
Ambarisa: Copernicus. He was a scientist. Ancient... well, long time ago. He was the one that first said that...
Hamsaduta: He made a model of the universe, I think.
Prabhupada: What is that scientific?
Hamsaduta: He made a model of the universe.
Ambarisa: With the sun in the center. It was a revolutionary idea.
Prabhupada: Another rascal.
Harikesa: He used to sit on top of his roof and think.
Prabhupada: And fell down? (laughter) What is this?
Gopala Krsna: Another (Hindi) kalakendra.
Prabhupada: Again. All kalakendra, this kendra.
Gopala Krsna: There's so many next to our temple.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Gopala Krsna: Next to our temple there's so many kalakendras.
Krsna-caitanya: Kala has another meaning of "art."
Prabhupada: [break] ...people engage in academic kalakendra, and the price of rice is rising. No rice. Rice kala. "My dear kalakendra, can you supply me rice?" "No." (laughter)
Tejas: In Bombay, even if any businessman brings more than five kgs of rice, they will seize him. They search the baggage many times in the trains at the station.
Prabhupada: You see. This is the kalakendra.
Hamsaduta: There was a political cartoon that people were shouting for food to Indira Gandhi, and the minister was saying, "The people want food." And she said, "But tomorrow we're going to have television."
Prabhupada: Television. Kalakendra. [break] ...kalakendra? This big house.
Harikesa: Rabindra...
Prabhupada: Rabindranath. Oh, he is the foremost kala, Rabindranath Tagore. He has shown biggest kala to the people of India.
Devotee (1): Aurobindo kalakendra.
Prabhupada: Aurobindo kala.
Devotee (1): Very big. He spent a lot of money for that Victoria House.
Prabhupada: But nobody is coming there, here or there. They have big, big Rabindra kala and nobody is trying to taste it.
Gopala Krsna: When they have programs, a lot of people come.
Prabhupada: That... You make any dog dance; they will come. That is not... In the name of Rabindranath Tagore...
Harikesa: That may even be Rabindranath Tagore dancing.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: When the dog is dancing, it may even be Rabindranath Tagore.
Prabhupada: Rabindranath became very popular on account of his introducing Maghmela, where young boys and girls could easily meet. Yes. (aside:) Jaya. Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Hamsaduta: Hare Krsna.
Tejas: Their current exhibition is "Women in the World."
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) Some exhibition is going on?
Tejas: It's "Women in the World."
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughter) What is that "Women in the World"?
Ambarisa: Sixteen-ounce brain, I think.
Gopala Krsna: They had a world conference of women in Mexico recently, where every country sent a delegation of women.
Prabhupada: To become man? (laughter)
Harikesa: Yes, nowadays we're doing that also.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughter) So you become woman. [break] ...here. Kala, kala?
Tejas: Stones.
Prabhupada: Yes. Kala means craftsmanship. Why it is not here, lacking? No money. The kala cannot be shown without money. I never saw New Delhi in such nasty condition.
Tejas: It's deteriorating.
Prabhupada: Yes, very much deteriorating. It means finished. The kala is finished now. You see? Now, "Natural History." So many dead stone they have brought, and so costly building, and showing "natural history." This is going on, simply cheating and bluffing at the cost of poor man's blood. Against this principle the communist movement is good. There are so many buildings, but there is not a single building where spiritual culture is discussed, although it is the real basis of life. (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...and not getting sufficient milk, their growth is checked. This is kalakendra.
Harikesa: They have powdered milk.
Prabhupada: That is simply cheating, powdered milk. It is white water, that's all. Powdered milk means white water. It has no value.
Hamsaduta: In Moscow too, Anand Shanti, he was telling. When we were there we wanted to buy milk, and they had milk in bottles, but he told me, he said, "This is not milk." He said "First they dehydrate it, make it to powder. Then they again add water and put it in the bottle, because in this way they can keep it a long time." So we couldn't find any real milk even in Moscow, the biggest city in the country.
Prabhupada: I think Moscow they have milk and butter.
Hamsaduta: At least when I was there we couldn't find any.
Prabhupada: Oh, then finished. All cows finished, cutting throat.
Hamsaduta: Butter they have, but it's not very good quality.
Prabhupada: Hm. Adulterate. I thought at least they have got little milk and butter, but that is also finished. [break]
Tejas: ...the milkman tries to bring the cow to the asrama, they arrest the milkman. They take his cow away from him. They don't even allow that they can bring the cow to the people any more. They seized. He lost one cow. He has to sneak the cow down the back alley so that they can bring some cow fodder in.
Prabhupada: [break] ...zation will collapse very soon, all over the world. It will collapse. Either you may bring this ism or that ism, this civilization will collapse. People will become mad, being harassed in so many ways. When one is harassed in so many problems, he commits suicide. So that position is coming.
Hamsaduta: Or he starts a war.
Prabhupada: Yes. When the government cannot adjust, they start a war. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi
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