The Unseen Controller 75/01/28 Tokyo, Bhagavad-gita 16.8

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


Nitai: "They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust."

Prabhupada:

asatyam apratistham te
jagad ahur anisvaram
aparaspara-sambhutam
kim anyat kama-haitukam
[Bg. 16.8]

This is the atheistic theory, asatyam. They say that this material world is false. Brahma satyam jagan mithya. Jagat, jagat means this cosmic manifestation which is gacchati, going. In the material world, everything is going. Just like in your city you see the cars, motor cars. They are going here and there, gacchati, very busy. Every man is going here and there. Similarly, the whole planetary system also, beginning from its birth up to the annihilation it is going, moving, orbit. It is going. Everything is going, moving. Even the sun, it has got its orbit. Yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam raja samasta..., asesa-tejah, yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah. The... Just like the earth has its orbit -- it is rotating -- similarly, every planet is rotating. The sun is also rotating. And so far I calculate, it is sixteen thousand miles per minute or second. I calculated once. The sun is rotating sixteen thousand miles either per minute or per second. I forget now.

So this is called jagat. Everything is going on. But it is going in such a way... Just like these cars are moving with high speed, but they are very careful to pass within the lane. Otherwise there will be collision. Similarly, all these planets, they have got their own speed for rotating, and there are hundreds and thousands and millions. They are rotating, but there is no collision. Now, how it is made? Who has made this lane? A car is moving in sixty miles, seventy miles speed, but they are ordered just to remain within the lane, the marking line. Who has made it? The police department, the government. So how can you say there is no control? We have to... This is called upama, analogy, the points of similarity. Analogy means the points of similarity. Then you can conclude some idea.

Now, as we see in the street that the cars are moving in high speed but they are within the orbit, within the line, demarcation of line, white line or yellow line, so there is some brain, there is some management, everything is there, Similarly, all these planets, they are rotating with high speed. Just like this planet. It is rotating 25,000 miles in twelve hours. Is it not? The circumference of this earth is 25,000 miles and... Yes, day and night, twenty-four hours. Almost one thousand miles per hour it is... Now the car is moving seventy miles per hours. It appears very with good speed running. But the earth is running at one thousand miles per hour, but we cannot understand. The arrangement is so nice. The perfection that it is... We cannot understand it. It is practical. We see the morning, day, coming. That means earth is moving. When the aeroplane moves also, there are so many jerking, those sound. They're all imperfect. But here you see that such perfect arrangement, it is moving one thousand miles per hour, and there is no jerking. There is nothing of the sort. We are thinking, "We are sitting in the same place." And there is no brain? Here it requires so much brain to move the car orderly on the street. So many police has made, so many government, scientist, this, that, so many, and this not only one planet, but many millions: yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40].

First of all there are many millions of universes, jagad-anda-koti. Koti means unlimited. Or 100,000 times 100,000. So yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-kotisu [Bs. 5.40]. And each universe... Kotisu asesa-vasudhadi. Vasudha means planet. Just like this is one planet. Asesa. Asesa means you cannot count, so many. That's a fact. You are seeing every day. Asesa-vasudhadi-vibhuti. And each planet has got different climate, different varieties, not that every planet is of the same. Now they are studying that the moon planet is also planet, but it is differently situated. Differently situated, as they are studying, that is different from the sastras, but there is difference from this planet to that planet. These modern scientists, they say that there is no life, and there cannot be any living entity, considering the atmosphere. But from the sastra we know in the moon planet... That is one of the heavenly planets, and there are living entities. They are living for ten thousand years, and it is very cold there. Therefore they drink soma-rasa. And some of the scientists, they say that the temperature in the moon planet is 200 degrees below zero. So similarly, you will find every planet is different from the atmospheric condition of the other planet. Just like sun planet. It is so fiery. It is full of fire, agni. The temperature is so high that ninety thousand or twenty millions miles?

Trivikrama: 93,000,000.

Prabhupada: 93,000,000 miles away from the sunshine, still, we are feeling too much hot, scorching heat. So this planet is... The temperature is very, very great. But still, there are life. Otherwise how Krsna says, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "I went there and I spoke to the sun-god." The sun-god... As there is president here, there is also president. He is called sun-god. His name is Vivasvan. Everything is there, and Krsna went there and talked with him. But this is a fiery planet. Similarly, the moon is very cold. So every planet has different atmospheric..., and they are moving in their orbit, their duration of their life -- everything, there is good arrangement.

So all these arrangements, there is no good brain behind it? How is that? But the raksasas, the demons, they will say, asatyam apratistham te jagad ahur anisvaram: [Bg. 16.8] "There is no controller and it is all false." False? So minute rules and regulation are being followed. The sun is rotating on the orbit in a such a perfect way that if the sun is inclined to this side or that side, there will be, whole world will be frozen or in blazing fire. This is the scientific opinion. It must rotate according to the diagram given by some controller. That is stated in Bhagavatam, "By the order of the Supreme." Yasyajnaya. Here also, in the Brahma-samhita, yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah. The sun is rotating, yasya ajnaya. Ajnaya means by order.

So when the question of order is there, then there must be one order-giver, and there must be one order-carrier. Otherwise, what is the meaning, order? Yasya ajnaya, by whose order. Whose means this whose, somebody bigger who is giving order, and the sun planet is carrying out the order. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah. So there is order-giver. There is controller, the Supreme Lord, and there is order-carrier, the sun-god. Otherwise who is carrying the order? If it is only a lump of matter, then who will carry out the order? Now, this Tokyo city if it is a lump of matter only, then how the systematic order of traffic rules and regulation is... It is not only lump of matter, but there is somebody, the government or the king or the president, who is maintaining the order. This is conclusion. This is analogy. Then how you say that there is no controller? Where is your logic? Can anybody give any logic that there is no...

These raksasas, they say there is no God, there is no controller, but where is the logic? How you can say so? What is your analogy? What is your logic, that you say there is no God? Let us discuss. Can anybody say here? What is the idea? If things are going on systematically, the planets are moving in the orbit systematically, everything is going on... Just like same example. Always remember. I may be foreigner, but because I see that on the street the cars are moving in order, the police is standing, there must be government. That is... I may know or not, but this is common sense affair. There must be government, and there is government. Similarly, when I see that the cosmic order is working so nicely, systematically and reasonably, then how I can say there is no controller? Where is my logic? Tell me, anyone. Can you say, anyone, why they say there is no controller? Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. What is their logic? You tell. You are sometimes on their side. (laughter) What is their logic?

Nitai: Well, that no controller is ever seen.

Prabhupada: But you have not seen who is Japanese government, president. How do you conclude there is government? You have not seen the president or the supreme head. So how do you say there is government? We have not seen who is the president, who is the prime minister. Then how do we conclude that "There must be government. Otherwise how it is going on so nicely." You may see, you may not see, so many things, but does it mean... That is not a good logic, that "I have not seen." I have not seen, but the sound is coming. The car is there. There must be somebody there. Even if we do not see, you have to conclude like that. Just like there is sound. The sound is of car, and the car, there must be one driver. You have not seen. So how do you conclude there is a driver? How do you conclude? And why do you give stress on your seeing power? What is the power of your seeing? You cannot see. Now you cannot see the car. It is beyond your seeing range or beyond the wall. Then how you conclude that there is a car? And if there is a car, there is a driver. If there is driver, there are passengers. So how do you conclude all this? Why do you give this... This is childish reason, "I cannot see." You cannot see; therefore there is no existence. That is not good logic.

Trivikrama: They say that it all happened by chance,

Prabhupada: Then that is another foolishness, "chance."

Trivikrama: If given enough time, then everything would work out like this.

Prabhupada: No, they are working already. There is no question of giving time. They are already working.

Trivikrama: No, but you say that because the earth isn't too hot or too cold. But they say that just by chance it came into this order.

Prabhupada: No, no, "by chance." This is childish reason, "by chance." It is not very good reason. A child will say, "(By) chance, it has come." That is childish. You must give solid reason. Chance, you can say anything as chance. Everybody can say like that. That is not reason. When you bring in chance, that is not logic. That is not knowledge. If somebody says, "By chance, I have come in this world," that is not logic. I must have my father. I must have my mother. And on account of father-mother being united, I am... This is scientific. "By chance I have dropped from the sky here," (laughter) this is not logic. This kind of logic is vague only. That is no... It has no value. Do you give any value to this logic, nonsensical logic? No sane man will accept, "by chance." When you are caught and you are convicted, then if you say, "By chance, I became convicted"? By chance? No. You committed theft, you were arrested, there were due judgment, and the judge has given you punishment. You must suffer. It is not a chance. And if you say, "By chance, I am now convicted," that is not chance. There is no question of chance. This is a false logic, chance. Nothing takes place by chance. That is sound reasoning. Chance means ignorant. One who does not know, he says chance. That is ignorance. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different thing. So they are rascals, you can say. This kind of logic, "I have not seen. It has come by chance. There was a chunk," these are all nonsensical proposition. There is isvara. This is sound knowledge. As you conclude by seeing the arrangement in the Tokyo city there is government, similarly, if you are intelligent enough, then you can understand there must be a controller. That is theism. That is knowledge.

Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Therefore this foolish class of men who are simply studying, they want time to find out, but actually if he is wise, if he is searching out regularly by wise conclusion, then, at some time, he will come to the conclusion, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, bahunam janmanam ante: after many births of research work, he will come to this conclusion that there is God, Vasudeva. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. Then he is the first-class mahatma. But that is very rare. Everyone is duratma, anisvaram: "There is no isvara. This is a false manifestation." That is not false. You study everything. You study even one plant. You can see so many arrangement, so many fibers. Fine fibers are coming out, and from one fiber to another. Even a small herb and vegetable, you will find there is craftsmanship. You cannot say it is chance. You cannot do it. So there is brain. That is right conclusion, "There is brain behind it," and that is theism. And that brain, what is the brain behind this, who has this brain behind this, behind this, behind this, behind this, if you come... Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19], after searching out for many, many births, then one comes to the conclusion that vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. You come to the conclusion, "Krsna is the cause of everything." That is already concluded. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]: "Isvarah, the supreme controller is Krsna." Isvarah paramah... There are so many controllers. Just like this city is being controlled by the police commissioner or somebody else. So above him, above him, above him, there is controller. And the... Above all, the supreme controller is Krsna. That is the conclusion.

isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]

He is the cause of... He is... Alone, He is working. He has expanded alone. He is not alone. Krsna means He has got so many energies. Just like a teeny person like me, Bhaktisiddhanta..., Bhaktivedanta Swami... So this movement -- I am not alone. I have got so many assistants, so many, all over the world. So as soon as you take up Krsna consciousness movement and its originator, founder, so he is not alone. Similarly, as I have expanded with my disciples in so many ways and so many places, so if I can expand -- I am a common man -- then how Krsna can expand, just imagine. He is the Supreme Lord. Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam [Bs 5.33]. Ananta-rupam. He can expand Himself, ananta-rupam. But He is the only person. He is doing everything.

Just like I am replying dozens of letters from all over the world and trying to manage, similarly, He is also managing alone, ananta-rupam, by unlimited assistants. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. We have to understand like that. Although He is alone, He has... Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam, ananta-rupam [Bs 5.33]. He has got ananta-rupam. Just like He is giving direction everyone. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61].

There are millions and millions and trillions of living entities, and each heart, He is sitting there. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. He is managing like that. So if we think that He is a controller like us, that is our misconception. He is controller. There is controller. With unlimited knowledge and unlimited assistants, with unlimited potencies, He is managing. These impersonalists, they cannot think of that a person can be so unlimitedly powerful. Therefore they become impersonalist. They cannot think of. The impersonalists, they cannot imagine... They imagine, "When one is person, he is a person like me. I cannot do this. Therefore He cannot do." Therefore they are mudha. Avajananti mam mudhah. They are comparing Krsna with themself. As he is a person, similarly, Krsna is a person. He does not know. The Vedas inform that "Although He is person, He is maintaining all unlimited persons." That they do not know. Eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman. That one singular person, He is maintaining many millions, many millions, trillions of persons. We are each, every one, we are person. I am person. You are person. The ant is person. The cat is person. Dog is person, and the insect is person. The trees are person. Everyone is person. Everyone is person. And there is another person. That is God, Krsna. That one person is maintaining all these varieties of millions and trillions of persons. This is the Vedic in... Eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman, nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. This is the information.

So Krsna also says in the Bhagavad-gita,

aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
[Bg. 10.8]

Therefore a devotee, when he understands thoroughly that "Here is one Supreme Person, who is the leader, who is the controller, who is the maintainer of everything," then he surrenders unto Him and becomes His devotee. You see? We, Krsna's devotee, we are not fools and rascals. We have got our reason. We have got our philosophy. When we know that Krsna is actually the supreme controller, the Supreme Person, the supreme maintainer, then we surrender. Then we become Krsna devotee. It is not blind. It is not blind. We are strongly convinced that that one person is the Supreme Person. Therefore we surrender. We are not blind followers. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravar..., iti matva budha bhava-samanvitah [Bg. 10.8].

Budhah. Budha means one who has understood thoroughly. So therefore he can become... One who has understood thoroughly Krsna as the supreme controller, he is guru. He is guru. Otherwise one cannot be guru. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Who can (be) guru? Guru is not artificial thing, "Guru Maharaja," "this Maharaja...," no. One who has firmly understood that Krsna is the original cause of everything, He is the Supreme Person -- nobody can remove him from that firm convictional position -- then he is guru. Otherwise he is not guru. Guru is not so easy thing. Budha bhava-samanvitah. One who has understood Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme controller, the supreme maintainer, the Supreme Person, everything, only one, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19] -- that is guru. But otherwise, he is not guru, one who has not understood Krsna. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu confirms, yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One who has understood Krsna as the supreme controller, the Supreme Person, the supreme maintainer, and everything, the supreme, ultimate, then he can become guru.

Otherwise don't try to become guru. Impersonalists, half-understood, partially understood, he cannot become guru. This is the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's formula. Therefore first of all try to understand Krsna. You will understand in such a way that you can refute all others' argument, all others' opposition. There are so many opposing elements. Then you are guru. Otherwise you cannot become a guru. Guru is not so teeny thing or trifle thing that everyone becomes Guru Maharaja, no. That is not guru. Sa mahatma... Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19].

So their theory, this atheistic theory, is aparaspara-sambhutam. It has taken by mechanical arrangement. Kim anyat kama-haitukam. Kama. Just like kama -- a man, a woman becomes lusty, and there is sex, and there is production. So they say like that. The production is like that. There is no other plan. But there is a big plan. That they do not know. The plan is: yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, tadatmanam srjamy aham [Bg. 4.7]. That is plan. But these rascal, this atheist class, they say, kim anyat kama-haitukam: "Only lusty desires, that is the only reason. That is the only cause." The atheist class think like that, that "This birth is taking place due to our lusty desires, but we do not want to take responsibility. Then kill him. What is that?" Therefore they are making this abortion, killing of the child, as legal. The kama... "We had some lusty desires, and we got it, but we don't want it. Kill it." That's all. This is going on. This is atheism. But it is not that. That child has come. It is a living entity. It desired a certain thing, and therefore he has given chance to take birth as human being or as cat, as dog. Kama-haitukam.

Then why one is born as a cat, one is born as a dog, one is born as a rich man's son, one who is born as..., so many varieties? Why? If kama-haitukam, then why not one variety? Where is the question of varieties? What is the answer? Why there are so many varieties? Everyone wants to take birth in rich family, in high family. Why one is born as a street dog and there is no food and crying, barking, and somebody is capturing and eating and no protection? Why? Why kama-haitukam, the dog is also born by the lusty desires of the male dog and the female dog, but why he is dog, and why he is such a rich man's son? Why? What is the answer? If kama-haitukam, lusty desire is the only cause for birth, production, then why there is one production, street dog, cat or pig or a worm in the stool, and why one is born as demigod, as Indra or Candra, Varuna? Why? A Brahma? Who makes this arrangement? Why one is put into such exalted position, and why one is put into that abominable position? What is the answer? Kama-haitukam.

Trivikrama: Past activities.

Prabhupada: Yes. You cannot say it's by chance. And who is making this chance arrangement, that one is born so exalted, one is born so low? Then again we have to accept somebody is. So these are all foolish theories, "By chance, by kama-haitukam." No, there is great arrangement. As the same... Just like the traffic control. There is a very big, great arrangement behind this. It is not by chance. By chance there has been not line, and they pass the car in certain line. No, it is not chance. How you can say, "chance"? So these theories are made by the demons. Read the purport.

Nitai: "The demoniac conclude that the world is a phantasmagoria. There is no cause, no effect, no controller, no purpose: everything is unreal. They say that this cosmic manifestation arises due to chance material actions and reactions. They do not think that the world was created by God for a certain purpose. They have their own theory: that the world has come about in its own way and that there is no reason to believe that there is a God behind it. For them there is no difference between spirit and matter, and they do not accept the Supreme Spirit. Everything is matter only, and the whole cosmos is supposed to be a mass of ignorance."

Prabhupada: Therefore they say chemical evolution. They cannot think of spirit. Go on.

Nitai: "According to them, everything is void, and whatever manifestation exists is due to our ignorance in perception. They take it for granted that all manifestation of diversity is a display of ignorance. Just as in a dream we may create so many things which actually have no existence, so when we are awake we shall see that everything is simply a dream. But factually, although the demons say that life is a dream, they are very expert in enjoying this dream. And so, instead of acquiring knowledge, they become more and more implicated in their dreamland. They conclude that as a child is simply the result of sexual intercourse between man and woman, this world is born without any soul. For them it is only a combination of matter that has produced the living entities, and there is no question of the existence of the soul. As many living creatures come out from the perspiration and from a dead body without any cause, similarly, the whole living world has come out from the material combinations of the cosmic manifestation. Therefore material nature is the cause of this manifestation, and there is no other cause. They do not believe in the words of Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram: [Bg. 9.10] ‘Under My direction the whole material world is moving.' In other words, amongst the demons there is no perfect knowledge of the creation of this world; every one of them has a particular theory of his own. According to them, one interpretation of the scriptures is as good as another, for they do not believe in a standard understanding of the scriptural injunctions."

Prabhupada: This is demonic. Now any question? (pause) This demonic conclusion will not help us. Then we shall remain in ignorance; there is no knowledge. Any question? Can you put any question on behalf of the demons? (laughter)

Trivikrama: Well, I am very expert at the demon mentality, but I'm afraid you've destroyed all arguments that I might put forth.

Prabhupada: Any of our friends, Japanese friends here?

Japanese man: Yes, I have one question. You mentioned that we can hear a car from outside, but we cannot see car. But...

Prabhupada: No, we can see car. But just like here we are sitting. We do not see the car, but the sound is there, but you conclude that there is a car. So therefore seeing is not always the sound reasoning. Even without seeing, we can conclude there is car. That is my point.

Japanese man: And what is the example of sound of God in this world?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Japanese man: Just like your example of God and God's sound in this world.

Prabhupada: Sound is the original ingredient of creation.

Trivikrama: He's asking how can we see God in this world. Although we can't see Him, how can we...?

Japanese man: Can hear His sound.

Prabhupada: You can see. You can hear the sound Krsna. Are you not hearing Hare Krsna? So that is a question of realization. You go on hearing, hearing. The child cannot understand what is the sound. The sound is the same. The car is going on. But his father can understand that with this sound this car is going on. But child cannot understand. So you begin hearing. Then gradually your ignorance will be cleansed, and then you understand that the sound is for car. Therefore you have to begin to hear the sound. Everyone is hearing, but those who are not experienced they cannot understand that this sound is of the car. But the... One understands or not understands, that doesn't matter. But the sound is of the car. That's a fact. So those who are experienced, they are understanding; those who are not experienced, they do not understand. That is the difference. It is the difference of experience. But the sound is of the car -- that is a fact. Similarly, the Hare Krsna sound is God. Those who are advanced, they can understand. And those who are not yet advanced, by hearing, hearing, they will understand. You want to see God. That is your idea?

Japanese man: No. I don't know if I ever see God or not.

Prabhupada: No, you have not seen, but what is your desire? You want to see?

Japanese man: I want to at least hear God in this world, and I was wondering what is...

Prabhupada: So God is speaking Bhagavad-gita. Just like reading, Krsna is speaking. So hear it, God speaking, the sound. The devotees are chanting Hare Krsna, that is God, that sound is God, sabda-brahma. This is the way. And if you want to see God, you can see also. That is prescribed here. Just like Krsna says, prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh: "I am the sunlight and moonlight." So you see the sunlight, moonlight, and you see God. Krsna says, "I am the sunlight. I am this moonlight." Then if you want to see Krsna, you see the... Sunlight you can see very easily. Is it very difficult for you? Then Krsna says, He personally says, that "I am the sunlight." You see the sunlight. You go on sunlight, seeing the sunlight, and you just take the words of Bhagavad-gita, "Now here is Krsna." Then you will understand, "Here is God." And factually you will see. If you think of only the sunlight, moonlight as instructed in the Bhagavad-gita -- Krsna says, "I am sun...," -- then one day very soon you will understand. You will see Krsna in sunlight. It is not bogus thing, that Krsna says, "I am the sunlight." He is. And He asks you to see. You see minutely, and you'll see Krsna. So where is the difficulty? You want to see Krsna. You see Krsna as Krsna advises. Krsna says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: "I am the taste of the water or any liquid substance. The taste I am." Now, whenever you drink water or drink any liquid thing or milk, the taste... There is... Everything has got a different taste. And if you think, as Krsna advises you, that "This taste is Krsna," then on that taste you will find Krsna. You begin as Krsna says. Then you will see Krsna. There is no difficulty. There are so many examples given by Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita. Find out that chapter.

raso 'ham apsu kaunteya
prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh
pranavah sarva-vedesu
sabdah khe paurusam nrsu

Trivikrama: He says that "Of purifiers, I am the wind."

Prabhupada: So many. Any one of them you take and meditate upon this, that "Here is Krsna." You will find Krsna. But Krsna is everywhere, as it is available. Read it.

Nitai:

raso 'ham apsu kaunteya
prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh
pranavah sarva-vedesu
sabdah khe paurusam nrsu

Prabhupada: Sabdah khe paurusam nrsu. Sabdah khe... [break] You try to see Krsna as advised by Him. Don't try to see Krsna in your own way. Then you will never find, You try to see Krsna... Why they say that "We have not seen God"? The God is represented in so many ways. You take God's advice and try to see Him as He advises. Then you will see God. That's a fact. I do not... Why do they say that "We have not seen God"? You are seeing always God. You are seeing the sunlight. You are seeing the moonlight. You are smelling the good flavor of flower. You are reading, if you are scholar, you are reading Vedas. Om tad visnoh... He says, "This om," pranavah sarva-vedesu, "in the Vedic mantra, the omkara is I am." Then, paurusam nrsu. Any wonderful work, if somebody has done, that is Krsna. So you have to see Krsna in this way, as Krsna advises. Then very soon you will see Krsna. There is no question of not seeing Him. You will see in every moment. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva [Bs. 5.38], twenty-four hours. Those who are actually Krsna devotees, they are seeing Krsna. They are seeing nothing but Krsna. There is no question of not seeing Him, but you have to adopt the method how to see Him. And that is given there. You adopt it, and you will see Krsna. Where is the difficulty? Any other question? This Bhagavad-gita, if you study minutely -- this is the science of God -- you will see God, you will see Krsna, and you will understand everything. Therefore we are present...

But if you misinterpret, if you pollute it by your own interpretation, then you will not see. These rascals, they are simply polluting. Because they are not coming in parampara system, everyone is trying to become a very learned scholar, very learned leader, but they are rascals. Actually they are rascals because they cannot see. Recently, what was the Gandhi's statement? That "I do not believe that there was Krsna ever lived." That's it, "ever lived. Krsna is of my imagination." He said like that. This is going on. All the acaryas, they accepted. Arjuna accepted Krsna as the Supreme Person. Sarvam etad rtam manye yad vadasi kesava: [Bg. 10.14] "Your personality, nobody can understand." There is person before him, and he is such a big man. He says that "It is imagination." This is going on. If... Science should be as other such study. Two plus two, mathematic calculation, that is four. You cannot say it is five or three by interpretation or by imagination. Two plus two is equal to four. You accept or not accept; that is a different thing. So it is a science. You have to accept according to the direction given. Then you will have this real thing. So any other question? Study by questioning. Pariprasnena, tad viddhi pariprasnena, pariprasnena sevaya, pranipatena.

Japanese man: I always want to ask whether if you met demigods or Indra or Brahma or...

Paramahamsa: He wants to know if you met any of the demigods, Brahma, Indra...

Prabhupada: Then what benefit will be for you? Suppose if I met, now what benefit you will derive out of it? If I say, "Yes, I have met," that what benefit you will get? Why you are asking this question? That you do not know. Then why you are asking?

Japanese man: Maybe sense gratification. (laughter)

Prabhupada: What is that, maybe...?

Trivikrama: Maybe sense gratification.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is sense gratification.

Japanese man: But actually, other devotees sometimes tell me that you met Indra or...

Prabhupada: Yes, I have met Indra or I have not met Indra. So if I met Indra, what benefit you get? And if I did not meet Indra, what is your loss? That is my question. Then why do you ask this question? You have no profit, no loss. Any other question? Put some intelligent questions. Then we can understand that you are studying really. [break]

Trivikrama: If Indra met you, then there would be some benefit for him. [break]

Prabhupada: Our proposition is that suppose if you know the president of Japan... Who is the president? A king or president here?

Japanese man: King, emperor.

Prabhupada: If you know the emperor, you can... Then what is the use of knowing the constable?

Trivikrama: You understand? If you know the prime minister or the head man, then the less important man is not necessary to know. So because Srila Prabhupada knows Krsna, it is not important...

Prabhupada: So what is the use of meeting others? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah yajante anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. They go to other demigods, to meet, for some benefit, their knowledge being lost, hrta-jnanah. Just like if I want some benefit in your Japanese state and if I know the emperor, I can ask him, "I want it." Why shall I go to some departmental manager? What is the use? Let them become very big man in their department, but if I want to take some benefit, then I can... If I am known to the emperor, I can ask him that "I want this." He will immediately give me. Why shall I go to the departmental manager? They are subordinate. Therefore it is said, kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah yajante anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. Antava t tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam. We do not disrespect anyone in the government service, but if I know the supreme person in the government, why shall I go and beg from the lower grade officer? If I want something, I can ask the supreme. Is it all right or not? What is the use? They may come to see me, "Oh, he is known to the emperor." They may come to see me. I cannot go to see them. And we have no want. Why shall I see the demigods? We have no want. Krsna knows. What is our business? Our business is to spread glories of Krsna. We are directly in service of Krsna, so whatever is wanted, He will supply. Why shall I go to somebody? It is His business. So for a devotee there is no need of meeting. We have all respect for them, but there is no need of meeting any demigod. They are all servants of Krsna. Ekale isvara krsna ara saba bhrtya. Isvarah paramah... He is the supreme controller. So why should we go to the subordinate controller? Why should we go? Is there any necessity? You do not follow me, what I say?

Trivikrama: Is there any necessity to go? Do we need to go to Indra?

Japanese man: No.

Prabhupada: Then? There is no need. Why should I bother my head for meeting the demigods? We have no business. We know the supreme, and the supreme knows what I want. So I haven't got to ask even the supreme that "This thing I want." No, there is no need. He knows. He will supply because I am engaged in His business. What is our business? Why we are bothering so much in this old age? The only business is that people may know Krsna, the supreme controller. That is our business. We have no other business. We don't want anything, either from Krsna or from demigod or anyone. Our only business is as advised by Caitanya Maha..., yare dekha, tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is our business. We are carrying this Bhagavad-gita as it is, and we are trying to educate people that "Here is real knowledge. Take it." This is our business. That means Krsna is the supreme. Isvarah param... That is our only business. That is our only business, that people may know that Krsna the Supreme Lord, that's all. We have no other business.

So for that purpose Krsna wants. Therefore He comes. He teaches Bhagavad-gita, that He is the supreme. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhan... [Bg. 7.7]. He wants to... Aham sarvasya prabhavah. He wants to spread this knowledge. We are spreading the same knowledge. We are helping Krsna. Not helping, we are serving Krsna. Caitanya Mahaprabhu comes for this mission. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. He preaches. What is Krsna and Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission? He simply preached Krsna, "Chant Hare Krsna. Understand Krsna." So our only business is to spread that Krsna is the Supreme Lord. So Krsna is very, very pleased that "What I want to do -- I go there, incarnate and spread -- that he is doing." Therefore we are already in the direct service of the Lord, so we have nothing to ask from anybody else. If we ask anything from anybody, that is for his benefit, not for our benefit.

Therefore they are accusing us of frauding, cheating, but they do not understand. Even if we take some money from others by so-called fraud or cheat, but it goes to Krsna... Just like Gurukrpa Maharaja. If you say if he's taking by this way or that way, but what he is doing? He is not smoking with that money. He is not drinking. He is sending to Krsna. Therefore he is giving the best service. So people may say, "Nonsense people. They're doing this, doing that." But he is giving the best service to Krsna because he is not accepting a farthing out of this. And these so-called worldly, honest men, they may be very honest, moral, but they are taking everything for their sense gratification. They are dishonest. They are the greatest fraud. Krsna's money they are taking for their own satisfaction. The greatest fraud. Stena eva sa ucyate. What is that? Ye pacanty atma-karanat. Bhunjate te agham papah. Stena eva sa ucyate. What is that? Everyone is thief. Everyone is taking Krsna's money for his sense gratification, and they are advertising they are very moral. What is that?

Nitai:

istan bhogan hi vo deva
dasyante yajna-bhavitah
tair dattan apradayaibhyo
yo bhunkte stena eva sah

Prabhupada: Sa ucyate. No? No. Sah. Stena eva sah.

Nitai: Stena eva sah.

Prabhupada: What is the...?

Nitai: "In charge of the various necessities of life, the demigods, being satisfied by the performance of yajna, sacrifice, supply all necessities to man. But one who enjoys these gifts, without offering them to the demigods in return, is certainly a thief."

Prabhupada: So anyone who is simply exploiting the resources of nature, the so-called industrialist, others, they are taking all goods from Krsna. Now, suppose you are making some machine. In making machine, you want the iron. But have you produced the iron? Wherefrom you have got the iron?

Trivikrama: From the nature.

Prabhupada: From the mine. So who has created mine? Your father has created this mine, that you are taking this iron? That means you are thief. You are thief. The iron is not your property. The iron is there already. If it is already there, you must conclude it is somebody's property. So you are taking it away without asking the proprietor. Then are you not thief? What is the meaning of stealing? If you take something without asking the proprietor, that is stealing. So the iron is there, you are taking from the mine iron. You may convert into various things. That is another thing. But the original iron, to whom it belongs? Krsna declares in the Bhagavad-gita, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the proprietor." So He is the proprietor. Sarva-loka, all planets. So in this planet, when you find this iron, then whose property it is? When you find it, you must know it belongs to somebody. And who is that person? Without asking that person, without taking permission of that person, if you take away, are you not thief?

The so-called civilization, they are all set of thieves, rogues. And they are formulating rules and regulation for others' fraud, those who are devotees. They are themselves fraud. Everything belongs... Suppose you have got this iron, stealing from the mine Krsna's property. Then if by some way or other, I take your iron and give it back to Krsna, so I am fraud or you are fraud? You do not possess anything. But you are claiming that you are proprietor of this thing, that thing, which you have taken by stealing. And if your stolen property, I take it from you and return it to Krsna, then who is fraud? You are fraud or I am fraud? Who is fraud? But they have made their own laws. They will steal, they will plunder, and still, they are honest gentlemen.

Just like the income tax department. They will take away all your hard-earned money, and they will enjoy themselves, and they are government officer, that's all. And if you keep money, "Oh, you have kept property without knowledge of government. Take it away." This is going on. So in this Kali-yuga it will happen so. The some rogues and frauds, they will combine together, and make a government, and take others' property, and they will remain honest, and he is fraud. This is Kali-yuga. The combined company of frauds, they will remain honest, and those who are servant of Krsna, they are frauds. Bultaka jivi rama.(?) Just the opposite. What can be done? This is the Kali-yuga.

Anardhena nyaya-rahitam.(?) In this Kali-yuga, if you have no money, then you will never get justice because you have to bribe up to the high court judge. That is going on. At least in India it is going on. You bribe, and you take favorable judgment. Is it not? Yes. And that is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Anardhena nyaya-rahitam. Everywhere you have to bribe. That means you require money. So unless you pay money, you will never get justice. This is Kali-yuga. Therefore a poor man cannot get justice. He cannot bribe. The other party will... If he has has got money, he will bribe. He will get justice, and he will suffer.

Just like Gandhi refused to take justice from the British court. That was his one of the items. He said that "There is no justice. So we shall deny to take any judgement from the British Court." That was his, one of the items. He never... When he was prosecuted, he never defended. He said, "Why shall I defend? There is no justice here. Why shall I spend my money for defending? No, you can do whatever you like. You are in power." Gandhi did always like that. "Here is no justice, so why shall I plead for justice?" That was Gandhi's philosophy, noncooperation. Whenever he was arrested, he will simply stand. That's all. Of course, he was given a seat. Such a big man, the court would offer him a seat. But he will never plead yes or no. "No, whatever you like, you can do. I don't expect justice from you." That was Gandhi's... He'll never plead. And all his followers did that. Therefore they were all sent jail. And by going to jail they got svaraja. And he declared, jail svaraja ke mandira hai: "If you want to get svaraja, independence, you must be prepared to go to jail."

Therefore, at the present moment, all the government men, their first qualification is whether he went to jail during this movement. Yes. The more one suffered imprisonment, he is given more exalted post. Not only jail, in the jail they were beaten very severely. Some of them were given poison. So many big, big leaders, they died just coming out of jail. They were given slow poison. C. R. Dasa, Jyotindra Mohan, Sen Gupta. And the Gandhi, therefore, he would not take any food from the jail. He would carry his one goat, and take the milk of the goat and some capatis made, two capatis and a little peanuts. That's all. He would not accept anything from the jail. Because he knew that "These men can give me poison." Actually they gave so many people slow poison, and they died. Just after coming back from the jail they died.

This is the world. It is going on. It is simply full of suffering. Simply we are after this phantasmagoria, that our running after something which is actually not fact. It is illusion. So this is the life in the material world. So this Krsna consciousness movement is to save the person from this illusory life of material existence. Let them come to Krsna and go back to home, back to Krsna. This is our movement. The greatest beneficial movement. We don't want to keep these people in ignorance. They are in illusion, ignorance. So our business is to enlighten him. Kota nidra jao maya-pisacira: "You are sleeping. Get up, take this opportunity and be Krsna conscious. Go back to home. Give up this nonsense place, duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15], full of miseries, cheating." This is our movement. The people do not understand. But our predecessor's order is that if you can save even one man, that is fulfillment of your mission. That we are trying. That's all. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 16.8 -- Tokyo, January 28, 1975

"Deliver Your Neighbourhood" 76/12/16 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 16.8

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



Prabhupada:

asatyam apratistham te
jagad ahur anisvaram
aparaspara-sambhutam
kim anyat kama-haitukam
[Bg. 16.8]

So we are discussing for the last few days about the asuras, demons. (aside:) Stop. So the beginning is, na saucam napi cacaro na satyam tesu vidyate. The asuras, they are asuci, unclean. That is their misfortune, that they cannot understand what is the right way, what is the wrong way. So suci, cleanliness, is the first qualification of the daiva-prakrti or devatas. There are two classes of men. One class is devata, and the other class asura. So asura class, they will have to suffer. They cannot get liberation from the material bondage. Mudha janmani janmani mam aprapya eva [Bg. 16.20]. Unless we achieve the shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, our sufferings in the material world will continue. It will not stop. We are trying to stop all kinds of suffering by adjustment of this material world. That is not possible. That is stated in the sastra. Durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah. Durasaya, hopeless.

Big, big asuras like Ravana, he also wanted to be happy himself and others by material adjustment. He proposed that "There is no need of acting piously to go to the heavenly planet. I shall construct a staircase so anyone can go." Ravanera svargesvari. So that was failure. Just like we are now trying, the modern scientists. We are trying to go to the moon planet. It is failure. They will never be able to go there. I have discussed this point. We are conditioned. We cannot live one place to another without being proficient or without being eligible. Just like even in this planet you cannot go to the other country. Suppose from India if we want to go to America, it requires arrangement, not that all of a sudden you can go to America or the Americans come here. There is international arrangement, visa, passport, immigration, so many things. So many obstacles are there even in this planet, and what to speak of going to other planet. It is not possible. You must be efficient; then you can go. That we get information from the Bhagavad-gita

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam
[Bg. 9.25]

So in this life you have to prepare yourself. Then you can go to the higher planetary system.

urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha
madhye tisthanti rajasah
jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha
adho gacchanti tamasah
[Bg. 14.18]

You can go, sarva-ga. Every living entity can go wherever he likes but he must fulfill the condition because we are in the conditional state. The material world means we are conditioned. So in order to be eligible to go to the higher planetary system like moon planet and others, we must be efficient to prepare ourself. So that preparation means the more you become situated in the sattva-guna, saucam. Satyam saucam, the brahminical qualification, arjavam astikyam, jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam. Unless you acquire the qualities of sattva-guna, you cannot go even in the higher planetary system, what to speak of going beyond the universe. Beyond the universe, beyond this, there are Vaikunthaloka, or the Brahmaloka, brahmajyoti. Then topmost is the Goloka Vrndavana. But you can go there. Krsna says, mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam. If you prepare in this life, then you can go there. There is no impediment. Simply you have to be purified. This bhakti-marga is the process of purification.

sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena hrsikesa-
sevanam bhaktir ucyate
[Cc. Madhya 19.170]

If we want to go to Vaikuntha planet or Goloka Vrndavana planet, beyond this material sky... That is... There is another sky. Paras tasmat tu bhavah anyah avyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah [Bg. 8.20]. These informations are there in the Bhagavad-gita. There is another sky which is called paravyoma. That is spiritual sky. That spiritual sky is eternal. When everything is annihilated within this material sky, that remains eternally. That is called sanatana-dhama. So sanatana-jiva, sanatana. Mamaivamso jiva-loke sanatanah. It is stated there. So jiva is sanatana. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. And Krsna is also sanatana. In the Eleventh Chapter Krsna is addressed, sanatana. And here there is another sky which is called sanatana. Avyaktah avyaktat sanatanah. So this sanatana-dhama and sanatana association... Krsna is sanatana, living entity is sanatana, and there is a sanatana-dhama.

So the cultivation of knowledge how one can go back to that sanatana-dhama and associate with the supreme sanatana and remain yourself sanatana, that is called sanatana-dharma. So we have to cultivate that sanatana-dharma, means we have to purify ourself from the material qualification or material designation. Here we have got material designation: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brahmana," "I am this and that." So one has to become free. That is purification, when we understand that, as Caitanya Mahaprabhu introduced Himself, that "I am not a brahmana, I am not a ksatriya, I am not a sudra, I am not a sannyasi, I am not a brahmacari, but I am servant of the servant of Krsna." Gopi-bhartuh pada-kamalayor dasa-dasa-dasanudasah. If we come to this understanding, that is our purification.

Just like in our this Krsna consciousness movement we have got people from all different countries, all different religious system, caste, creed, colors, but they have forgotten their material designation. If these American boys or English boys would have thought that they are Englishmen, then they could not mix with us Indian in such humble way because they have their prestigious position. And actually materially they are advanced and opulent. Why they should come with me, an Indian, poor Indian? No. Because they have forgotten. Their designation they have forgotten. Similarly, we have to forget this material designation due to this body. This is bodily conception of life.

So nowadays it is going on very strong, "nation." We do not have any such conception in the sastra, national idea. The division is deva and asura. It doesn't matter where you are born. Even in India... Suppose you are born in a brahmana family. It does not mean that you cannot become an asura. And even if in Europe and America if you are born or in the mleccha and yavana family, it does not mean that you cannot become a brahmana. No. Krsna says openly, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. Papa-yoni, low-born. Papa-yoni. There are... They are mentioned in the sastras, kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah. They are considered as candala, less than the sudras. Kirata means Africans, the black. In our country also there are santals, very black. They live in the forest. Every country aborigines. They are called kirata. So Huns... There are Huns on the northern side of Germany. Andhra, kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah. Many. But Sukadeva Gosvami says that they can be purified, sudhyanti prabhavisnave, if they become Vaisnava. Prabhavisnave namah. If one becomes Vaisnava, then he is transcendental to this material designation.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is an endeavor to make everyone a pure Vaisnava. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Then he will be nirmala. In that nirmala stage, when he engages himself in the service of the Lord, that is called bhakti. Bhakti is not the activities of this material world. Bhakti is activity, sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. To become identified with Brahman, that is not sufficient. Aham brahmasmi. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. That is not sufficient. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. When you become free from this material designation, brahma-bhutah stage, aham brahmasmi, that is a stage, neutral stage. Na socati na kanksati. Means you become free from the material anxieties. Material life means socati, kanksati. Always people want something, and whatever he has got, if he has lost, he laments for something. This is our material life. But when you come to the Brahman platform, na socati na... This is the first qualification -- no more lamentation, no more hankering. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Then sarvesu bhutesu, every living entity, he can... He knows that every living entity is the son of Krsna. Aham bija-pradah pita, Krsna says. So why shall I distinguish between this person to that person? Everyone is Vaisnava. That is maha-bhagavata. Maha-bhagavata does not see any distinction. He sees everyone. Panditah sama...

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama...
[Bg. 5.18]

When one has attained this stage, then he can execute devotional service. Mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. So to become a bhakta is the highest position, highest perfection of life, beyond this material existence. That is possible. Krsna says:

mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te 'pi yanti param gatim
[Bg. 9.32]

Everyone is eligible to go back home, back to Godhead. So this movement is to execute this Krsna's mission. He wants it. Why He says, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah? Papa-yonayah means suffering. Here in this material world either you are in papa-yoni or ucca-yoni, there is suffering. So Krsna is... Kim punar brahmanah punya bhakta rajarsayas tatha [Bg. 9.33]. Even the papa-yonis, they can be relieved, what to speak of those who are born in good family, brahmana, punya, rajarsaya, brahmana, ksatriya. Of course, in this age it is very difficult to find out the qualified brahmana, ksatriya. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. Kali-yuga, everyone is almost sudra. And still, striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te 'pi yanti param gatim. They can be elevated. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is para-upakara, para-upakara, because within this material world, with material designation and material envelopment, they are all suffering. Krsna is more unhappy for our suffering because we are His sons. Suppose your son is suffering. You will suffer also, not that the son is suffering. Similarly, because we have come to this conditional state of life, bhutva bhutva praliyate -- we sometimes..., once we take birth and again we die -- this is not very good proposal. But these rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. We are leaving one body and accepting another body. This is a great botheration. But the rascal so-called scientist, politician, they do not know this. I therefore say, "rascals." They are very much proud of their learning, advancement of science, but they cannot understand the simple truth spoken in the Bhagavad-gita, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. There is dehantara-praptih. Dhiras tatra na muhyati.

So people are surprised. They do not believe that they are... But dhiras tatra na muhyati: Those who are dhira, sober, intelligent, they understand, "Yes, there is dehantara-prap..." The example He's giving, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. Just like we are changing body, kaumaram yauvanam jara, similarly, the old body, "old order changes to a new." Again we get another body. And this is very, very great botheration of life. They do not understand. But it can be stopped. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. It can be stopped. How? Simply by understanding Krsna. Janma karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. You simply try to understand Krsna. And Krsna is explaining Himself. Where is the difficulty to understand Krsna? You haven't got to speculate. You haven't got to manufacture ideas what kind of Krsna He is. He is present, dvi-bhuja-muralidhara-krsna. Krsna when He was present in the, upon this earth, everyone has seen. Krsna has His temple, thousands and millions of temples, Krsna. You can see His picture. Description is there, venum kvanantam, in the Vedic literature.

venum kvanantam aravinda-dalayataksam
barhavatamsam asitambuda-sundarangam
kandarpa-koti-kamaniya-visesa-sobham
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.30]

Why? What is the difficulty to understand Krsna? And simply if you understand Krsna... Janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. They are not ordinary activities. Janma karma ca me divyam -- transcendental. If you simply understand Krsna, then we can save from this botheration of repetition of birth and death. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. He does not accept any more this material body. Then where does he go? Mam eti: "He comes to Me, back to home, back to Godhead." So this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to introduce this movement in the human society. It is not meant for any particular class of men, a particular country or particular religious system. No. It is meant for everyone. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that it is the duty of the Indians.

bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]

First of all make yourself perfect. You can make yourself perfect because in the Bharatavarsa there are this Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Vedic literature. Just study them. And therefore we are publishing so many books on the basis of Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam and people are appreciating very much all over the world. So it is the duty of every Indian to make his life perfect by understanding Bhagavad-gita at least, and spread the message. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Every one of you can become a guru. He says that. Amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Wherever you are, you can deliver the persons, surrounding persons in your neighborhood. "How can I become guru? I have no qualification." No. There is no need of qualification. Simply repeat. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Very simple thing. Anyone you meet, "My dear friend, just hear little." "What is that?" "Now, Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You kindly think of Krsna. Just offer your obeisances to Krsna, just become a bhakta and chant His holy name." Bas. Your guru duty is finished. So it is not very difficult task. Anyone can do this. And then everyone will be benefited. And that is Krsna consciousness movement. Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 16.8 -- Hyderabad, December 16, 1976

Who Is Demon and Who Is Divine 75/02/04 Hawaii, Bhagavad-gita 16.8

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



Nitai: "They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust."

Prabhupada:

asatyam apratistham te
jagad ahur anisvaram
aparaspara-sambhutam
kim anyat kama-haitukam
[Bg. 16.8]


This is the verdict of the asuras. We have discussed the characteristics of asuras for the last two days. Now, gradually, Krsna is explaining the demonic characteristic. He has explained the divine characteristic extensively before this. Now He is explaining what are the demonic characteristics. So, napi cacarah. They even do not know how to live nicely. That verse we have already discussed last night.

pravrttim ca nivrttim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam tesu vidyate

Pravrtti and nivrtti means which one, which path, we shall take and which path we shall reject. That they do not know. Na saucam, not cleanliness. Even ordinary things, cleanliness, that is very hygienic. That also they do not know. Na saucam napi cacarah. They do not know how to behave also. Na satyam. And no truthfulness is there. This verse we have already discussed.

Now, the next characteristic is asatyam: "This world is simply phenomenal; it has no foundation." The Mayavadis, they directly say, brahma satyam jagan mithya. So Mayavadi, at least they say that "There is Brahman. He is truth, but this phenomenal world is not truth. Manifestation of material energy, that is not true." So, according to our philosophy, Vaisnava philosophy, we don't say that this maya, or the... Maya means this temporary manifestation. This material world is fact, but it is temporary, not false. We cannot say it is false. Just like I am sitting on the seat or you are sitting on the floor. We are sitting on something. It is not false; it is fact. I am not sitting on the air. You are not sitting on the air. So how we can say it is false? No. Therefore our philosophy is... That is fact. One may consider. One who is philosophically inclined, he can judge the statement, of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Rupa Gosvami says,

prapancikataya buddhya
hari-sambandhi-vastunah
mumuksubhih parityago
vairagyam phalgu kathyate

He says, "The material things..." Prapancika means material. So this house is material. It is made of wood, stone. So we are giving up all material connection. Then why shall we live in this house? This is material. So prapancika. Prapancika means considering something as material. Hari-sambandhi-vastunah. Vastu means substance or thing which has connection with Hari. This stone, wood, air, fire, water -- five gross elements -- it has connection with Krsna. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca, bhinna me prakrtir astadha. These eight kinds of material elements, five gross and three subtle, namely the earth, water, air fire, sky -- these are gross elements -- and the subtle elements, mind, intelligence, and ego... So these are subtle. Mind is also material, and intelligence is also material, and ego, the false ego that "I am this material body," that is also material. And above this, that is spiritual.

Above this, the soul, the spirit, that is spiritual. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. Krsna says, "These gross and subtle elements, they are inferior energy. That is My energy, but that is inferior energy." Itas tu, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param: "There is another superior energy." What is that superior energy? Jiva-bhuta, the living entity. Jiva-bhutam yayedam dharyate jagat. That is superior because this superior energy, living entity, he is trying to utilize this inferior material energy for his sense gratification. Dharyate jagat. Whole world is going on just like a motor car. It is combination of gross material -- iron, steel, copper, glass, like that, and cotton, and fiber. The car is combination of some material things, but it is operated or it is manufactured by the man. He is controlling this; therefore he is superior. Both of them are energies. The superior energy, living entity, is managing how to collect this iron, copper, this, that, and make nice car. And he is riding on. And this material supply is given by the material energy. The intelligence is given by Krsna.

Krsna says, sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistah: "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca: [Bg. 15.15] "From Me he's getting the intelligence." So if you analyze the whole thing, the manufacturer of the car and the car itself and the, ingredients of the car, the platform on which the car is running -- everything belongs to Krsna. That is the ultimate analysis. Therefore Rupa Gosvami says that in everything there is relationship with Krsna. Hari-sambandhi-vastunah. So why shall I reject it? I am concerned with Hari, Krsna; therefore anything belongs to Krsna -- I am also interested. Property of Krsna, things of Krsna...

We are taking care of this house. Why? Because it is temple. What is temple? Temple means Krsna is there. Krsna is everywhere, but because we have got now our limited knowledge -- we are not advanced -- therefore we take a spot, the temple, and always think of Krsna that "This is Krsna's place. This is Krsna's temple. We must take care of it." Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-mar janadau **. These are the process of devotional service, that we worship the Deity, sri-vigraha, nicely dressed, nicely worshiped, first-class food offered. This is called sri-vigraharadhana, worshiping, arcanam. Arcanam vandanam dasyam. Tan-mandira-marjanadau, and again cleansing the temple very nicely everywhere. So this is our process, that we take everything in relationship with Krsna.

We don't find that this material energy is false. We don't say. But the asuras. those who have no knowledge of Krsna, they say, asatyam: "This is all false." Why it is false? If the source of energy is fact, brahma satyam, then the energy of the satya must be satya. If the cause is fact, then the effect is also fact. Just like cotton. If cotton is fact, then the thread is also fact. How you can say that thread is false and cotton is fact? That is not possible. If the cotton is fact, then the thread, effect of cotton, that is also fact. Therefore Rupa Gosvami says that prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah. Anything which has got connection with Hari, Krsna, prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi..., mumuksubhih parityagah. Mumuksu, those who are aspiring after liberation, mumuk... Moksa. The Mayavadis, they are aspiring after mukti. Mukti. A devotee does not care for mukti. Mukti's not very important thing for them because, actually, one who is pure devotee, he's already mukta, liberated. He doesn't care for mukti. That is stated in the Srimad Bhagavad-gita that

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]

"Anyone who is engaged in My devotional service without any adulteration, pure..." Pure devotional service means anyabhilasita-sunyam: [BRS 1.1.11] no other desire, no duplicity, pure -- "I am servant of Krsna, and it is my duty to serve Krsna," not, "I am serving Krsna with a motive. As soon as I get the opportunity, I shall utilize." That is not pure devotion. Pure devotion means without any motive: "Krsna is my Lord. I am His eternal servant. It is my duty to serve" -- no motive. That is pure devotion. So if one is on the platform of devotional service, mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Anyone who is serving Krsna without any motive, without any alloy, pure devotional service, he's already liberated. Mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate, sa gunan samatitya etan [Bg. 14.26].

Liberation means not to be under the influence of the modes of material nature, not to be infected by the modes of material nature, especially passion and ignorance. That is mukti. Mukti is not very wonderful thing. It is difference of consciousness. Everyone is conscious materially: "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." This is one consciousness, and when this consciousness is purified, tat-paratvena nirmalam... Nirmalam means completely cleanse. That is the bhakti platform. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When one becomes purified completely from all this designation... The body is designation. So according to the body, we are placed in different designation: "I am human being," "I am cat," "I am dog," "I am demigod," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brahmana," "I am ksatriya" -- so many designations. So bhakti platform is sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11].

Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, "I am not a brahmana, I am not a ksatriya. I am not a vaisya. I am not a sudra," because the material human society designation is the varnasrama according to Vedic civilization. Even those who are not on the varnasrama platform, they are animals. That is Vedic civilization. So to come to the platform of truth, one has to know what are the defects of material life, how it is taken by the asuras. That is being described by Krsna, asatyam, asatyam apratistham, apratistham te. Te means these asuras. Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. It is controlled by the Supreme.

In the material stage we think that it is being controlled by the laws of material nature. That is also fact, but behind the laws of material nature there is Krsna. The material laws of material nature is not working blindly. That is a fact. Combination of material thing, a big, nice airship, is moving. It is combination of material things. There are iron, aluminium, wood, and petrol, so many other things, the combination of material things. But this combination of material things, if it is kept in one place, in many thousands of years it will not fly. It will not fly -- the petrol is here; everything is there -- unless the pilot is there. When the pilot comes he pushes the button. Then it becomes.

So these foolish, these atheistic persons, mudhas, they cannot see. There must be a spiritual touch. In spite of all electronic arrangement, unless there is a spiritual... The pilot is spiritual being. Unless he touches his finger, it is not moving. So how this gigantic material manifestation can work independently? They have no sense. Therefore they say, jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. Anisvaram: "There is no pilot. It is moving automatically." This is asuric conclusion. How it can move? Where is your experience that simply combination of material thing can move the machine? Where is your experience? How do you say like that? It is very common sense. Therefore Krsna said these rascals, these demons, they say, jagad ahur anisvaram: [Bg. 16.8] "There is no controller." He's thinking. The scientist thinking. He's practically doing in the laboratory, that he is a spiritual soul. He is mixing the chemicals, hydrogen, oxygen, acid and alkaline. He's mixing, and there is reaction. Then something is coming out. He's doing that. Still, he says, "There is no God." What is this foolishness? Why do they say like that? Therefore they are asuras. They do not admit the existence. Big, big chemist...

Recently there is a book "Chemical Evolution." He wants to prove it, that by combination of chemicals the life has come in. That is not the fact. The fact is: life has come from life. You cannot manufacture life by combination of chemical. Chemical comes from life. In our book... What is that book? "Life Comes From Life." I have given this reason, that even though you think that chemical combination brings the living force, but the chemical is coming from life. Just like citric acid. The citric acid we see practically. There is a tree, lemon tree. This is life. The lemon tree is life. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavarah. They are sthavara life, non-moving life, but it is life. So from an insignificant lemon tree, tons of citric acid is coming. You have got experience. This lemon means citric acid. This chemical is coming from life. Without the tree, you cannot get this chemical, citric acid. From... Sometimes you have got experience. The perspiration is water, is coming from my body. The body is active so long I am there. So how you can say the chemical is coming from matter? No. Chemical is coming from life. Even if you accept that life is combination of chemicals, then chemical also coming from life.

So, therefore, life is the original source of everything, both matter and life. The body is coming from life, and the soul is coming from life, the supreme life, Krsna. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah: [Bg. 15.7] "This living entity, they are part and parcel of Me." So Krsna is the supreme life. Therefore He says, aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. So Krsna is the source of both life and matter. There are two energies. One is superior energy; another, it is inferior energy. The material elements, they are inferior energy, and the superior energy -- jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat. So how you can say jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]? How you can say that without the control of the Supreme Lord this material world has come into being? There is no sufficient reasoning.

They say because they are not very intelligent. Therefore Krsna says, mudha. Mudha. That is stated in the Seventh Chapter. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Those who are duskrtina... Duskrtina means very intelligent, but the intelligence is being misused in mischief-mongering. They are called duskrtina. Krti. Krti means very nice brain, but duskrti -- the brain is used for creating misgivings. They will explain like that. But we should be very much careful not to become their victim. So although the atheists say there is no God, jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8], but we are convinced that God is the origin -- janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1] -- of both matter and spirit. So aparaspara-sambhutam, they simply explain that it is the result of combination only.

Just like acid and alkaline combine together. Just like soap. Soap is combination of acid and alkaline. The caustic soda is alkaline, and the fat is acid. So you mix this acid and alkaline -- there is another product. This is chemical science. So the acid and alkaline, they also come from the, I mean to say, life. Or if it does not come from the life, the product is made by another life. Acid and alkaline does not mix together. Unless the chemist or the soap-maker brings them together and mixes, the soap does not come. So how you can say that the chemical combination is the source of life? No, that is not possible. This is right conclusion.

But these rascals, they conclude like that. Aparaspara-sambhutam: "By combination of two or more material things produces another third or fourth thing." Aparaspara-sambhutam, kim anyat kama-haitukam. They give example. This is the atheist Sankhya philosophy, atheistic Sankhya philosophy, combination, permutation. But the example is given, kim anyat kama-haitukam. Kama. Just like a man and woman becomes lusty and their combination brings forth a child, a third matter. They think like that. They are thinking everything is matter. No. There is good brain within the combination. That is explained in the Vedic literature. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. This body is not coming accidentally by the sex intercourse. That is not the fact. The fact is karmana daiva-netrena. Otherwise, why the same kind of body is not coming by material combination and permutation? Why there are different types of body? Why there is rich body? Why there is poor body? Why there is cat body? Why is dog body? Why there are varieties? That they cannot answer. If you say that "Simply by combination of matter the secretion of the man and woman emulsifies and takes another shape, and that secretion, discharge of matter, is due to lust," that is all right. But unless there is the living spark, soul, within that material combination, there is no pregnancy. The pregnancy will take place when there is actually living soul within this material creation, material combination, emulsification. That is the knowledge we get from Vedic sources. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapatti: [SB 3.31.1] "Jantuh, the living entity, is getting a type of body by the karma." It is not simply lusty combination. Because the living entity has got his karma, therefore one is born and Mr. Ford and one is born something else. It is due to karma. Otherwise, why he's born one rich and poor? There must be some consideration.

So that they do not find. They do not... They have no eyes to see. They simply see the superfluous combination, permutation. No. That superintendence is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, mayadhyaksena prakrtih [Bg. 9.10]. The Bhagavata also says, daiva-netrena. Daiva-netrena means "under the leadership of the Supreme." As soon as one dies, gives up this body... He does not die; he changes the body. Now, the next body... Here is a duration of changing body. Say for a hundred years the changing is going on. Then, after that, when he changes this body, then there is daiva-netrena, the judgement: "What kind of body should be awarded this living entity?" That is called daiva-netrena. And when it is decided that "He has done such and such thing; therefore he should be promoted," "He has done such and such thing; he should be degraded," "He has done such and such thing; therefore he should go back to home, back to Godhead" -- all these judgements are taken -- then he's offered.

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam
[Bg. 9.25]

There is the judgement, supreme judgement: "He has done like this. All right, let him be promoted in the heavenly planet." He goes there. Abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Abrahma-loka. The highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, he can go. That is also required, superior judgement, what he has done for being promoted. Janmaisvarya-sruta-sribhih. Janma, to take birth in high class family, to become very rich -- they are not accidental. There is background, daiva-netrena, by the superior judgement. There are so many things to be learned. Simply to become blind without any knowledge and give some verdict, asatyam, that is nonsense. That is nonsense. Krsna is guiding us. Don't be victims of these rascals. Asatyam apratistham te jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. There is God. There is supreme controller. And God says, mayadhyaksena: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My superintendence."

The material power is very gigantic, undoubtedly. That is described in the Brahma-samhita, srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka chayeva yasya bhuvanani vibharti durga [Bs. 5.44]. This material energy is called Durga. Durga means... Duh means very difficult. When we are in this material world it is very, very difficult to get out of it. The sky is covering the whole material universe, and there are different layers. It is not so... You cannot go even to the nearest planet. Durga, very difficult. You cannot... You are conditioned soul. You cannot go. You are thinking, "I have got now, discovered this." It is not discovered. The aeroplane was long, long ago. So you cannot go. That is our conditional life. They are trying to go to the moon planet, unsuccessful. They cannot go. Therefore we are conditioned. I am conditioned to live on this planet. I cannot go to other planet without permission. It is common sense. Just like India. One cannot come to America without proper visa. So how you can go to the other planet without proper visa. So they do not think. That is, therefore, asuras, demons. They are simply thinking that they are perfect, they can do everything. That is not possible. That is not possible.

Therefore a devotee knows how to do things. He knows not automatically, but he learns from the spiritual master, the representative of God. Then he becomes perfect. Otherwise asura. Na saucam napi cacarah. The asuras, they do not know what is cleanliness, what is proper behavior. That is asuric quality. So we have explained. By asuric quality we remain conditioned with this material world. But daivi qual..., by divine quality, we can become free from this material bondage and go back to home, back to Godhead. So these things are very elaborately explained in this chapter, Sixteenth Chapter. So let us know who is demon and who is divine. Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 16.8 -- Hawaii, February 4, 1975

Turning Asuras Into Suras 75/01/27 Tokyo, Bhagavad-gita 16.7

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



Nitai: "...that the demons do not know the scriptural rules, not do they have any inclination to follow them.

Prabhupada: So the human being...

pravrttim ca nivrttim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam tesu vidyate


In the human form of life there are two classes of men. First of all living being. Amongst the living being there are some living being which can move or can walk from one place to another. And there are certain other living beings which cannot move, just like the trees, plants. They are also living being, but they are standing in one place for many thousands of years. They have no independence to move. Now, in the moving living beings there are so many. The flies, the insects, the reptiles, the birds, the beast. In this way, by evolutionary process, one after another, one comes to the form of human being. This human being is therefore very, very rare. After going through 8,400,000 species of life, one comes to this human form of life.

So here is the chance of getting freedom from this evolutionary process. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births, we have got. Why? Now, to become civilized. What is civilization? Civilization... The Aryans are called civilized. Why? Aryan means going forward. And what is the destination of going forward? The destination is to understand the original cause of creation, God. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. That is the Vedanta philosophy. Janmady asya yatah. The original cause from where everything is coming into being, by whose management everything is maintained, and after annihilation everything will enter into Him -- that is the original person. So human form of life is meant for understanding the original cause of all causes. That is human form of life. Inquisitiveness. And others, less than human being, just like lower animals, cats and dogs, not to speak of the trees and plants... They are standing in one place, and other living beings, even the insects, birds, beasts, they haven't got sufficient intelligence. (aside:) No, this water, drinking. Sufficient intelligence to understand "What I am? Why I am suffering?" Everyone is suffering. That's a fact. The whole struggle for existence is going on.

Just like just now two big directors of this Dai Nippon Company came to see me. We have got business with them. So they are meeting so many problems for printing work. They are maintaining about 200,000 people to carry on their business, huge establishment, huge responsibility. But there are problems also. So this material world is full of problem. One who understands, he is called sura, or civilized man. And one who does not understand, he is called asura. Asura, not sura. Aryan, non-Aryan. So amongst the suras, those who can understand the problems of life, there is a system which is called religion. And what is the purpose of religion? Religion is to understand what is God. That is religion. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19].

So all over the world the civilized man has got some religion. It may be professing the Vedic religion, somebody the Buddhic scriptures. Just in your country, most of you, you are Buddhists. There are similarly Mohammedan scriptures, Christian scriptures. But in each and every scripture there is rules and regulation to follow to become more and more aware of the topmost principle, the original cause of all causes. That is, means, religion. So one who does not care to understand this philosophy, they are called asura. And one who understands this philosophy of life, they are called sura or devata, god, demigods, they are called.

Dvau bhuta-sargau loke daiva asura eva ca. There are two kinds of men throughout the whole universe. There are men in other planets also, they are very highly elevated. They are therefore called devas, or demigods. The moon planet, the sun planet... There are many other heavenly planets. There is sun-god. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find the name of the sun-god, or the predominating deity of the sun planet, Vivasvan. His name is Vivasvan. Everything you will find in the sastra. So there are two divisions: asura and sura, or asura or deva. Devasura. Deva means those who are conscious of the responsibility of life. They are called deva. So for the devas, Krsna has explained so many things. Now He is explaining about the asuras. What are the symptoms of asura? He says first of all, pravrttim ca nivrttim ca jana na vidur asurah. Pravrttim nivrttim.

Now, as soon as we have got this human form of life, we have got different desires or we accept something as very nice. We reject something as not very good. This discriminating power is there. Even in animals there is this discriminating power. Just like a pig. A pig, if you give him halava and if you give him stool, he would like to eat stool than the halava. You will find it, natural. He has got natural inclination to eat stool. And a human being will be naturally inclined to take halava. So this is called pravrtti and nivrtti. So the member of the Krsna consciousness society, if you offer him tea, he will not take it. And others, if you offer tea, he will very gladly accept it. This is called pravrtti and nivrtti. So the pravrtti and nivrtti... Why a person is not accepting tea or smoking or something else, and why other person accepting the same thing? Amongst the animal also, you give something to animal. He will reject and another thing he will accept. These two things are there in every living being: accepting something and rejecting something. This is called pravrtti and nivrtti. So far the human form of life is concerned, there must be some pravrtti and nivrtti. There is that inclination, pravrtti and nivrtti, but they should be synchronized, systematized, what things we should accept and what things we should reject. That we must learn. Therefore we have got so many books, literature, education, what things we should accept and which things we should reject. But what is the basic principle? Why I shall accept something and reject something?

The basic principle is to go forward in our spiritual understanding. That is the basic principle. We are suffering in this material world. We may say that "We have no suffering. It is very pleasing," but actually, in every step we are suffering. Just like this is winter season. To take bath in the winter season is suffering. And in the summer season, to take bath in the summer season, it is very pleasing. So either we are suffering or we are enjoying according to different season and circumstances, but actually we are suffering. Because... Take this winter season. We do not want chilly cold. Therefore we are covering. The cause is we are suffering. Therefore we are covering. And after covering, we are feeling some pleasure. This pleasure is, for the time being, absence of suffering. That's all. Actually, we are suffering, but by some arrangement, when we stop that suffering for the time being and feel, enjoying, that is material enjoyment. Actually there is no enjoyment. Because in the winter season by covering the body we are feeling pleased but in the summer season by covering the body we feel not pleased. So this is going on. So rejecting and... Why the same dress, warm dress, does not give us pleasure in the summer season? And the same dress, in the winter season it gives us pleasure. So we do not know whether dress is pleasing or suffering. Means sometimes it is pleasing and sometime it is displeasing.

Similarly water. We do not know whether water is pleasing or displeasing. Sometimes it is pleasing; sometimes it is not pleasing. Everything. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah. So in this material world, actually we are suffering either in summer season or winter season, or any other season, with dress or without dress, with water, not water. The cause is going on, suffering only, but we are trying to cover this cause of suffering, and by temporary stopping the cause of suffering, we are thinking that we are enjoying. But actually there is no enjoying in this material world because you will find in the Bhagavad-gita this material world has been described as duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is for suffering. Even if you do not take very seriously about this winter season or summer season, suffering or enjoying, at the end, either you accept these temporary sufferings and enjoying... Ultimately we are suffering. Ultimately we are suffering. How? Because we will have to die. Who wants death? Does anyone want death voluntarily? No. As soon as there is any cause of death, immediate death, we become very much sorry. Suppose you are sitting in a airplane and you understand, "Now it is going to be crashed," are you..., will you be happy? No. Why? Because you are going to die.

Suppose you are on the sea and it is going to sink in the water. Will you be happy? No. That time we chant Hare Krsna. Sukhe... Duhkhe saba hari bhaje, sukhe bhaje kaya.(?) When we are in danger... In Japan you have got many times the experience of earthquake, earthquake. What do you do at that time? Huh? You all Japanese boys and girls, what do you do? Have you experienced earthquake? You have? What do you do at that time? (pauses waiting for an answer) When there is earthquake, what do you do? Hmm? But I have seen in America. They all, everyone, they scream. (laughter) And perhaps they remember about God. Naturally they will remember, "God save us. God save us." What is your...? That means that we do not wish to die. That's a fact. You cannot say that death is very good thing. Nobody will say. Death... But we have to die. There is no excuse, that "I shall not die." Death is "as sure as death," they say. But you don't want death. This is suffering.

Not only death, even in lifetime... Just like we are old man. Who wants to become old man? Everyone wants to remain youthful. This is undesirable. This is suffering, actually suffering, because we are old man. We suffering so many diseases, so many inconveniences. If I am not helped by three, four men, then I cannot move even. So this is suffering. Old age is suffering. And diseased condition. Apart from death and old age, the diseased condition. Suppose you are suffering from some disease, some fever. So this is inevitable. You cannot avoid disease, you cannot avoid old age, you cannot avoid death, and you cannot avoid birth. So suffering... The whole material world is full of suffering. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. And even if you make it... Suppose at any place you are living it is not very comfortable, but if you are assured that you will not die, you will not be diseased, you will not become old, you will not take birth again -- if there is no death, there is no question of birth -- so even if you are assured of...it is called? Immunity from these sufferings, still, there are many other sufferings.

Suppose you are not thinking very well. Today my mind is very disturbed. That is called adhyatmika. I have got some pain in my body. That is also adhyatmika. Some friend or some animal has done some mischief to me. That is also suffering, adhibhautika. And adhidaivika. The earthquake. Nobody wants earthquake, but there is earthquake. This is adhidaivika. There is famine. There is pestilence. There is so many thing. So even if we are assured that we are not going to die, still, there are other sufferings. And, of course, there is no question of not dying. Everyone will have to die. Even you accept this place of suffering and if you are assured that you will live here permanently, still, you become happy, "All right, I will not die." But that is also not possible. Therefore asasvatam. Even if you make your arrangement very nicely that you will not suffer, but you will not be allowed to stay. Now just like in Tokyo city we are making very big, big buildings, everywhere, all over the world, to live very comfortably. But that comfortable life is also not assured because you will have to die. You will have to die. Therefore it is called asasvatam, not permanent. Even if you are under the impression that "I am very happy," that happiness also will not be allowed you for eternal time, it will be finished.

So there is no question of happy life within this material world. This is to be understood first. Very pessimistic. Those who are intelligent, they are very pessimistic. Even materially they are pessimistic. They are living some standard of life. "This is not good." There are many houses very low and cottage, so people think that "This is not very good life. Let us have very nice building." So this struggle is going on. That is human nature, that unless, until he approaches the final post or platform of happiness, he is not happy. That is called struggle for existence and survival of the fittest. So sura and devata means those who are trying to reach the ultimate goal of life where happiness is guaranteed, one who is trying for that, he is called sura, devata. And one who is satisfied with this temporary so-called happiness, he is called asura. That is the difference.

Now, if you want to reach to the ultimate goal of life, where only blissful life, sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1], eternal body of knowledge and bliss, then you have to become sura. It is not that the asuras will remain asura. It doesn't matter. Even born in the asura family one can become sura. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. His father was asura, but he was perfect sura. That is possible. It is not prohibited to anyone. If he wants to become sura... Just like in ordinary life also. If you are determined to become medical man, you can become. There is no impediment. If you are persistent, you can become medical man, engineer, or anything. People are trying, education. Similarly, if you want to become sura, there is no impediment, and there is no obstacle. You can become. Simply you have to know what sort of life we should accept, pravrtti -- this is called pravrtti -- and what sort of life we should reject. This is required. This is the distinction between sura and asura.

Just like these European, American, boys. before coming to my shelter, they were doing everything. We prohibit illicit sex. We prohibit intoxication. We prohibit meat-eating. We prohibit gambling. So these boys and girls were accustomed to all these habits, pravrtti. But they have now changed their pravrtti because they want to become sura. They want to achieve the ultimate goal of life. One may not know what mode of life we should accept. One may not know what mode of life we should reject, but in the sastra, in the teachings of great men, learned scholars, things are there. We have to accept. We may not know, but we should accept. The Krsna consciousness movement is for this purpose, to change the pravrtti nivrtti. Just like there is pravrtti for meat-eating. We are advising, "Please do not eat meat." This is nivrtti. Before that, they do not know what is the difference between meat-eating and not meat-eating. But now they are understanding. Therefore they are becoming sura. One who adopts the methods... And why one should eat meat at all?

Just like in our... You have taken. Some of you might have taken prasadam here. So how nicely they have made. Our Bhanu is expert in making nice prasadam. These boys, these American boys and European boys and some Japanese boys, they have adopted this means. They are happy. So everyone can become sura. There is no... Krsna says... It is not it is hackneyed. If somebody says, "Oh, he is born in the asura family. He shall remain as asura," no, no, that is not shastric injunction. He can be improved. He can become a sura. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, You will find. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah. Papa-yonayah. The asuras are called papa-yoni. Papa-yoni means born in low-grade family. But Krsna says,

mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te 'pi yanti param gatim
[Bg. 9.32]

So there is no question of papa-yoni or asura. If one wants to become asura and devata he can become. Otherwise, why Krsna says, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh? They...

In India they sometimes come to fight with me that I am making these papa-yoni, namely, the Europeans and Americans... They are considered by the rigid Hindus as a papa-yoni. "They cannot become." But why Krsna says, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah? Te 'pi yanti param gatim. So everyone has got the chance. Even he is born in a papa-yoni, everyone... Otherwise, why Krsna will say, te 'pi yanti param gatim? Simply the condition is: mam hi partha vyapasritya: [Bg. 9.32] "One should take to Krsna consciousness fully. Never mind wherever he is born. He can be also transferred to the spiritual world."

So this is our movement, Krsna consciousness movement is like that. It doesn't matter whether one is sura or asura. Sura... Krsna also says,

kim punar brahmanah punya
bhakta rajarsayas tatha
(anityam) asukham lokam
imam prapya bhajasva mam
[Bg. 9.33]

Simply if we take to Krsna consciousness, it does not matter whether we are born in papa-yoni or punya-yoni. Punya-yoni, those who are born in punya-yoni, in nice family, for them it is very easy and natural. But even those who are born in asura family... Just like Prahlada Maharaja became a great devotee. He is one of the authorities of devotees. But his father was asura. Asura does not mean one community is simply asura, and other community is simply sura. No, that is not. Any community, any person, if he follows the principle of sura, he becomes sura. If he follow the principles of asura, even if he was born in sura family, then he is asura. These are the injunction of the sastra.

People do not know it. So we Krsna consciousness movement, we are simply trying to make the asuras as sura. This is our movement. Anyone who is not devotee, he is asura. It doesn't matter whether he is born in some country or some family. It doesn't matter. If he is not a devotee of Krsna, then he is asura. When we speak of Krsna, Krsna means God. Anyone who is nondevotee of God, who is not God conscious, he is asura. That is the injunction. Visnu-bhakto bhaved daiva asuras tad-viparyayah. This is the distinction. Devata means visnu-bhakta, great devotee of the Supreme Lord. Visnu means the Supreme Lord, all-pervading. Visnu-bhakto bhaved daiva asuras tad... And those who are not devotees, Godless, without any God consciousness, they are all asuras. So this movement is to make asuras as suras.

Then what is the advantage of becoming sura and asura? If you become a sura, then you become fit for entering into the kingdom of God, back to home, back to Godhead. But if you remain asura, then you have to remain in this material world, which is duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15], full of miseries and temporary. So we don't say anyone asura and sura, but, we understand from the sastra anyone who takes to Krsna consciousness, whatever he may be, he becomes a sura. Even if he is born in asura family, it doesn't matter. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. His father was a asura, but still, he became the first-class sura. Similarly, everyone can become first-class sura. They have to be trained. The asuras, they... Therefore it is said that pravrttim ca nivrttim ca jana na vidur asurah. Asuras, the fault is, asuras, they do not know how to live a very happy and clean life. They do not know. Acara. Na saucam napi cacarah. They have not cleanliness and good behavior.

So therefore we are teaching cleanliness. "You rise early in the morning. Take your bath." He must be clean immediately. He rises early in the morning, evacuating. He takes his bath. Immediately becomes cleansed, saucam. Sattvam saucam samo damas titiksa. These are the qualification of brahmana or the suras. But they do not know it. Therefore we are training, "Rise early in the morning. Chant Hare Krsna. Have mangala-arati." This is acara. This is acara. By practicing this, you can see the distinction between ordinary men or our men. Anyone, practically you will see. In America they are surprised. Although they are Americans, they inquire, "Are you Americans?" Because there, in America, there is no such thing. Any inquisitive person inquires. The priest said that "These boys, they are our boys, and they never came to church to inquire about what is God. Now they are mad after God. What is this?" Because they have become suras by training. By training. So asuras can be turned into suras. There is no difficulty. Provided they abide by the rules and regulation, orders of the spiritual master, they can be suras. Because they do not know... Na saucam napi cacaro na satyam tesu vidyate. They do not know what is satyam. Satyam param dhimahi. Therefore we are teaching them Srimad-Bhagavatam, satyam param dhimahi, the ultimate truth. They do not know what is satyam. This is the movement, to give them education to understand what is the Absolute Truth, satyam param dhimahi, to teach them how to behave in life, how to become purified in life. This is very scientific movement. If anyone wants actually to become sura, the perfect man, they must join this Krsna consciousness movement. Then his life will be successful. Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 16.7 -- Tokyo, January 27, 1975

From Papa-Yoni To Devata 75/12/26 Sanand, Bhagavad-gita 16.7

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


Prabhupada:

pravrttim ca nivrttim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam tesu vidyate

Indian man: There's something in between.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Indian man: It's not connecting.

Prabhupada: Now here is the description of the asuras as stated by Krsna. There are two classes of men, asura and deva. Daiva and asura. Visnu-bhakto bhaved deva asuras tad-viparyayah. The devas, devataloka... (aside) Don't talk.

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: No... And whatever it may be, why you are interpreting? You stop. In the upper planetary system, beginning from the sun, there are Suryaloka, Candraloka, Mangala, Bhur, Brhaspati, up to Saturn, there are different lokas. So the upper planetary system, beginning from Surya, they are called devaloka. They are all devotees of the Lord; therefore they are called devata. They are not pure devotees, but they are not disobedient to the orders of the Supreme Lord. Suddha-bhakta means they do not come to the material world. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11], the suddha-bhaktas, nitya, nitya-siddha, they do not come to this material world. They are everlastingly liberated soul, engaged in the service of Narayana. This material creation is exhibition of one-fourth energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The three-fourth creation is in the spiritual world, Vaikunthaloka.

So in this material world they have come... All of us, beginning from Brahma down to the insignificant ant, we have come here for material enjoyment. And in this material world, according to different desires and karma, they are getting different types of bodies. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. Karmana, by our work, and by the supervision of the supreme power we are getting different types of body. So there are two kinds of living entities. One kind of living entities, they are trying to go back to home, back to Godhead. They are called devatas. And the asuras, they are not aware of the spiritual world; neither they are endeavoring to go back to home, back to Godhead. So Krsna has described about the devotees in so many ways. Now He is discriminating who are the demons. So for the asuras there is no knowledge what is the aim of life. So they are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam also,

na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum
durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah
andha yathandhair upaniyamanas
te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah
[SB 7.5.31]

These asuras, or the persons who are in ignorance, in material enjoyment, they do not know what is the goal of life. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life, and they are trying to improve the condition of bodily comforts. The more we are interested in the bodily comforts of life the more we are asuras. So these asuras, they are not very cleansed, na saucam. Na saucam napi ca acarah: "They have no good behavior, neither they are very clean." Therefore, according to varnasrama-dharma, the brahmanas are called suci, means pure. But this suci... The opposite word is muci. So there is a Bengali Vaisnava poet. He says that

suci haya muci haya yadi krsna tyaje
muci haya suci haya yadi krsna bhaje

The purport is that if somebody takes to Krsna consciousness, even he is born in the family of muci, then he becomes suci. And if a person born in the brahmana family or ksatriya family but he does not take to Krsna consciousness, then he becomes a muci. This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. Papa-yoni means muci, less than the sudras. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, te 'pi yanti param gatim, they are also eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. So even a muci or a papa-yoni born in the low grade family, if he takes to Krsna consciousness, he becomes a devata. This is also confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam by Sukadeva Gosvami,

kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah

So it doesn't matter where we are born. If we take to Krsna consciousness, then he becomes a suddha, suci, purified, and he is eligible to go back to home, to back to Godhead. So to take the shelter of a pure devotee means he knows what is pravrtti and what is nivrtti. All our Vedic literature is meant for nivrtti. Pravrttir esa bhutanam nivrttis tu maha-phala. These, all living creatures, who are struggling for existence in this material world, that is their pravrtti, to enjoy this material world. But when one becomes inclined to nivrtti, he becomes devata. So this Krsna consciousness movement which was inaugurated by Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu is for nivrtti-marga. Nivrtti-marga means "No more material enjoyment. Let me make progress towards Krsna consciousness." Therefore this devotional service or bhakti-yoga, it is called nivrtti-marga. This is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

vasudeve bhagavati
bhakti-yogah prayojitah
janayaty asu vairagyam
jnanam ca yad ahaitukam
[SB 1.2.7]

Bhakti-yoga... And Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, he was a impersonalist, followers of the Sankara philosophy. When he became convinced about the Vaisnava philosophy, he wrote one hundred slokas, prayers to Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Amongst that sloka, one of the prominent sloka is

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-
siksartham ekah purusah puranah
sri-krsna-caitanya-sarira-dhari
krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye
[Cc. Madya 6.254]

He said that "This Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the same Krsna. He has come to teach vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga [Cc. Madya 6.254]." Bhakti-yoga means vairagya-vidya, no more this material enjoyment -- that is vairagya. Jnanam ca yad ahaitukam. The result of jnana is vairagya. Vairagya-vidya. Bhakti-yoga is vairagya-vidya means that bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat [SB 11.2.42]. Bhakti means one is making progress towards Krsna consciousness, and automatically he becomes detestful to the material world. Srila Rupa Gosvami has given the example: just like hungry man. If he is given food, he takes it, but as he takes it, he becomes satisfied. And when he is fully satisfied, he does not require any more food. There is another sloka given by Yamunacarya. He says,

yad-avadhi mama cetah krsna-padaravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhamany udyatam rantum asit
tad-avadhi bata nari-sangame smaryamane
bhavati mukha-vikarah susthu nisthivanam ca

He says that "Since I have been engaged in the service of the Lord," yad-avadhi mama cetah krsna-padaravinde, "since I have begun my life to serve Krsna, since that time, whenever I think of sex life I spite (spit) on it." So therefore, when we stop our desires for material enjoyment... Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [BRS 1.1.11]. Karma means to desire to be elevated in the higher planetary system, Svargaloka. [break] ...jnana. The jnanis, they are trying to elevate themselves to the impersonal Brahman. So these are not pure devotional service. [break] Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Madhya 19.167], no desire for material conception of life. So jnana is also another desire, negative desire, to become free from this material world. That is desire. Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said,

bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami sakali asanta
krsna-bhakta niskama ataeva santa

He said that bhukti-kami, the material persons who are desiring improvement in this world, in this life, and going to the heavenly planet next life... That is called bhukti. And mukti... Desiring liberation, that is called mukti, and... Or become one with the Supreme Brahman, that is mukti. And siddhi, yogis, they are trying to achieve some success in asta-siddhi, anima, laghima. So everyone is desiring. So therefore Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, krsna-bhakta niskama: "A devotee of Krsna is not desirous of anything, either bhukti, mukti, or siddhi." The purport is, so long you desire something, you'll never get peace of mind. And a bhakta does not desire anything. He is satisfied with any position, whatever is offered to him by Krsna.

narayana-parah sarve
na kutascana bibhyati
svargapavarga-narakesv
api tulyartha-darsinah

Anyone who is narayana-parayana, he does not fear whether he is going to hell or heaven. Because wherever he goes he is with Narayana, he is safe. It doesn't matter whether it is hell or heaven. That is offered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His prayer,

na dhanam na janam na sundarim
kavitam va jagadisa kamaye
mama janmani janmanisvare
bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi

The idea is that a bhakta does not require any material happiness or distress. He does not require any monistic proposition to merge into the existence of the Supreme. And neither he desires any jugglery of asta-siddhi yoga. So in order to become devata, not to become asura... Asuras are always against Krsna. There are many examples like Ravana, and Hiranyakasipu, Kamsa. There are many. So we should remember that devata means who is fully surrendered to the lotus feet of Krsna. So there are many symptoms of the asuras. They are all described in the Sixteenth Chapter. It requires a long time to discuss. It is not possible to discuss all the symptoms. But one of the most important symptom of the asura is here described, asatyam apratistham te jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. Their main proposal is that there is no creator God.

The modern scientists, philosophers, Western people, they don't accept that God is the creator of everything. And their theory of creation is the chemical composition. One gentleman has written one book, "Chemical Evolution." They think that chemical combination is the cause of life. So the asuras' theory of creation is aparaspara-sambhutam kim anyat kama-haitukam. It is a chance theory, but we don't accept. We are preaching against them, writing books against them. We are challenging this atheistic theory of creation. So this asuric... The Krsna consciousness movement is against the asuras. Every time, always, Krsna also comes down to kill the asuras. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. [break] Asuras cannot flourish by their atheistic theory. Unless one comes to Krsna consciousness, he has to be put into the different types of asuric yoni to suffer in this material world. And if we continue this Godless civilization, Krsna says here,

tan aham dvisatah kruran
samsaresu naradhaman
ksipamy ajasram asubhan
asurisv eva yonisu

He keeps them always put into this asuric yoni, everlastingly forgetting the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and suffer in this material world. So so long we remain in the asuric tendency, then we cannot understand Krsna. That is also described by Krsna in the Seventh Chapter,

na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]

So we should generally conclude that anyone who does not take to Krsna consciousness, they fall in the groups of duskrtinah, mudhah, naradhamah, mayayapahrta-jnanah. So in the beginning we discussed napy acarah, sadacara. So even one is short of sadacara, Krsna says, api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak, sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. Even one is not fully in sadacara but if he has taken Krsna consciousness fully, he is a sadhu. So to take to this Krsna consciousness is made very easy during this Kali-yuga.

harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
[Adi 17.21]

Kalau, in this age, if you take to Krsna consciousness, simply chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna mantra, then you become devata. This is our program. So our only request is to you, that in whatever position you are -- it doesn't require to be changed -- simply take to Krsna consciousness. Chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra, and gradually you'll become devata. That is the recommendation of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. Remain in your place but be Krsna conscious. It is not difficult at all. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 16.7 -- Sanand, December 26, 1975

The Asuric Public 76/12/15 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 16.7

The Asuric Public

76/12/15 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 16.7



Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


Prabhupada:

pravrttim ca nivrttim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam tesu vidyate

So this asuric public, they do not know which way their destination is. They say it is self-interest but these rascals they do not know what is the self-interest because their very beginning of life is mistaken. They are thinking this body is the self. So how they will know self-interest? The basic principle is mistaken. Dehatma-buddhi. The dogs, cats, they think that "I am this body." So same interest, asura. They do not know, neither they try to understand. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Within this body the spirit soul is there. They cannot understand. Therefore their self-interest is mistaken. Real self-interest is that "I am spirit soul, I am son of God, my father is very, very rich, opulent. I have given up my father's association and therefore I am suffering." Otherwise there is no question of suffering. We have got experience. A very rich man's son, why he should suffer? So here Krsna says that aham bija-pradah pita: "I am the seed-giving father of all living entities." Then... God means sad-aisvarya-purnah, six kinds of opulences. He is complete. He is the proprietor of everything, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. So if I am the son of a person who is the proprietor of everything, where is the question of my suffering?

So therefore the basic principle of self-interest is lost. So this Krsna consciousness movement is to revive their consciousness that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul. You are part and parcel of God. Why you should suffer? So cultivate Krsna consciousness, and simply by cultivating Krsna consciousness you will go back home, back to Godhead, and then you'll be happy." Krsna confirms this. Duhkhalayam asasvatam, napnuvanti mahatmanah samsiddhim paramam gatah, mam upetya: [Bg. 8.15] "If somebody comes to Me," mam upetya, "then he does not come back again in this material world, who is duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]." This place is place for suffering. Because they do not know self-interest, the place of suffering they are accepting place of enjoyment. But actually it is place of suffering.

Why you are covering this body? The body is the cause of suffering and in contact with the atmosphere I feel cold. Therefore I have to cover. It is a means of mitigating the suffering. The position is suffering, but somehow or other we are trying to mitigate the suffering. Similarly, in summer season also, the suffering is there. At that time we don't want this covering; we want electric fan. So always there is suffering. Either in the summer season or winter season, suffering must be there. That we do not come to understand. This is due to our asuric svabhava. So we do not question. In the summer season and the winter season... The summer season, we like something cool and in the winter season we want something which is warm. So two things are there. So sometimes the warmth is suffering; sometimes this cool is also suffering. So where is enjoyment? We simply hanker that "At this time, if there were warm..." But warm is also suffering. Therefore Krsna says that "Don't bother about the suffering." It will continue. You are thinking in summer season something as very pleasing. The same thing in winter season will not be pleasing. So they will come and go. Don't bother about this so-called suffering and enjoyment. Do your duty, Krsna consciousness.

matra-sparsas tu kaunteya
sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah
agamapayino 'nityas
tams titiksasva bharata

We are busy in solving our temporary problems. Sometimes we want warm; sometimes we want coolness. This is not actually our self-interest. Our self-interest is to understand that "I am son of God. My father is complete in everything. So why shall I suffer?" Does a rich man's son suffer? No. But a rich man's son, if he goes out of home and voluntarily accepts suffering, loitering in the street... Just like we see amongst the hippies. Unnecessarily they have accepted suffering. Similarly, unnecessarily we have accepted sufferings of this material world. If our real consciousness, means Krsna consciousness, is awakened, then we become aware of our position, constitutional position. Then we are saved from this repetition of birth and death and go back home, back to Godhead.

But these asuras, they do not know it. Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca. They do not know. Where we shall stop our activities and where we shall continue our activities, that they do not know. They are increasing their activities on the platform where they will continually suffer. That has to be changed, and then our life will be successful. So na saucam napi cacarah. Acara. Acara and vicara, there are two things. Vicara means consideration. That is vicara. Just like vicara prati. The high court judge is called vicara prati. Two opposite party presenting their grievances and he will consider and give his judgment. So vicara-pandita. Unless one is very learned, he cannot consider things. But acara. Acara everyone can do. Acara means just like to rise early in the morning, to take bath, chant Hare Krsna, have tilaka, observe mangala-arati. This is called acara. Then there is hygienic. And vicara means consideration. So in the asuras, both things are lacking. Neither there is acara nor vicara. Therefore it is said, na saucam napi ca acarah. Acarya, you have heard the name acarya. Acarya means he teaches by personal behavior. Just like I teach you, "no intoxication." So if I am addicted to intoxication and if I say that "You don't take any intoxication," then who will care for me? This is therefore acara. Acarati. Practically you have to behave; then you can preach. Otherwise you cannot become acarya. Acarya means one who practices the acara and then teaches. He is acarya. So acara. Na saucam napi cacaro na satyam. Satyam means truthfulness. He is preaching something and doing something. That is not truthfulness. Truthfulness means what you preach, you must do. So these things are lacking in the asuric life, so we have to be careful that we must be very neat and clean. We must behave according to injunction of the sastra and guru. Then we can get out of the jurisdiction of asuras. Then we can come to the platform of sura, or devata. Then we can make advance in spiritual life. If you keep yourself in the asuric platform there is no possibility of making advancement in Krsna consciousness. That is warning here. Na saucam napi cacaro na satyam tesu vidyate. Asatyam apratistham te jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. Because we are rascals, not cleansed, inward, outward... Externally one has to be cleansed.

apavitrah pavitro va
sarvavastham gato 'pi va
yah smaret pundarikaksam
sa bahyabhyantara-sucih

There are two kinds of cleanliness. Outside, externally, we take bath by soap or by soda, by oil. We cleanse external body and internally by cleansing the intestine, the heart, the mind, the consciousness. That is internally cleansing. And external. Both cleansed one must be. Bahya abhyantara-sucih. Yah smaret pundarikaksam sa bahya abhyantara-sucih. Because they are not suci... Suci means brahmanas, always cleansed, hygienic. That is suci. And muci. Muci means cobbler. There is a class in India, cobbler. Their business is to take away the dead animals, especially cows. Other animals, they do not care. They are taken by the vultures and others. But when a cow is dead, that is very important. Cow is alive important and dead also important. It is so important. When the cow is dead the skin is valuable, the hoof is valuable, the horn is valuable, the bones are valuable. Everything is valuable. Just like elephant. Dead or alive, it is one lakh of rupees. The price is the same. That is the... Because elephant is very costly, everyone knows. You cannot... One lakh of rupees. Unless one is king or a big zamindar he cannot purchase elephant, neither he can keep. And if the elephant is dead, that is also one lakh of rupees because it contains the ivory bones, very, very costly. So there are animals; either dead or alive, the price is the same. Similarly, cow, dead or alive, the price is the same.

So this cobbler... Just like we are protecting cows. We cannot kill for the skin, but these asuras, they are killing thousands and thousands of cows for getting the skin, only for the skin. So if you are interested in the skin, if you are interested in the flesh, so at least wait for the time the animal will die. There is no doubt about it. So at least let him, let her die natural death. Why you should kill? You can take at that time the skin, the bone, the hoof. Whatever you like, you can take, the flesh. So in India there is a class. They are called camara. They are called opposite, muci. Suci and muci. The first class is suci, brahmana, and the last class is the muci. The last class men, muci, they... As soon as your animal is dead you give them information. They will come. They'll take the animal. They will get the skin for nothing. So they'll tan it and make shoes for selling. So they will get the raw materials free of charges, so they can make shoes. Tanning with oil and keeping it in the sunshine, the skin becomes soft and durable, and then you can prepare shoes. A class of men, muci. So there was no problem. And the bones you gather together and keep in a place. In due course of time it will become very good fertilization. And they can eat the flesh also. Only the cobbler class, the muci class, they eat this cow's flesh after taking the dead animal. So after killing, everyone eats, so why not wait for the natural death and eat it?

But because they are asuras, raksasas, they do not wait for that. They want the fresh. What is that "fresh"? Unless you kill the animal, you cannot eat. So where is freshness? You have to kill him. You have to make it dead, so why not make it natural dead? And they have imagined something, this, that, vitamins, and so on, so on. This is asuras. So these asuras, they do not know that killing of an animal is sinful. You cannot... Just like we are sitting here, and if somebody comes and disturbs us and makes us obliged to leave this place, that is criminal. That is criminal. Similarly, a living entity has been ordained by the nature's law that he has to live in such and such body for a certain period. Living entity never dies. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So killing the body, he does not die, but because you disturb him, his duration of period to live in that body, you become sinful. You cannot disturb him.

Sometimes these rascals put the argument that living entity does not die. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Big, big sannyasi rascals, they give this argument that "What is the wrong if it is killed?" No. He does not die. But because... Just like if somebody disturbs, we have to go out from this place. But that is criminal. You cannot disturb me. That is criminal, unlawful disturbance. So similarly, the living entity will not die after being killed or the body being annihilated. But because one disturbs him, therefore he is punishable. He becomes criminal. But because they do not know, asuras, the rules and regulation, God's law...

That is dharma. Dharma means to know the rules and regulation given by God. That is dharma. Dharmam tu... Just like you must know the government's laws, similarly, you must know what is God's law. God's law is this, that everyone is evolving through different forms of body to come to the platform of human body. That is nature's law. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani [Bg. 3.27]. So they do not know. Napi cacarah. All so low grade persons at the present moment, civilization, that... Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [SB 1.1.10]. Oh, this is a civilization of all bad men, manda, manda, with ideas, nonsense ideas, sumanda-matayah, and all unfortunate, unfortunate in this sense, that this human body was given by nature in due course of time, but he remained an animal without becoming a human being. Therefore unfortunate. And still disturbed. This is the position.

So you have come to Krsna consciousness movement. Be very careful. Do not waste your time. Do not fall down again. Mam aprapya nivartante mrtyu-samsara-vartmani. If in this life you neglect to achieve Krsna consciousness, then you have to return back again to the lower grade of life according to your karma. You can become next life a dog, a cat, a tree, according to your karma. So don't degrade yourself again because nature's law you cannot avoid. Daivi hy... You may be very proud so long this body is there, that "I don't care for anything." My dear sir, you don't say that. You are not independent. You have to care. You will be obliged to take care, but because you are a fool, you are rascal, unnecessarily you are proud and you are thinking that you are independent. Don't do like that. Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 16.7 -- Hyderabad, December 15, 1976

The Path Of No 76/12/14 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 16.7

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



Prabhupada: So, we were discussing yesterday about the demons or nondevotees. Demons means nondevotee. That I have explained. Devata means demigods, and demons... So demons, they do not know which way they have to live their life. That they do not know.

pravrttim ca nivrttim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam tesu vidyate

These are the first qualification of the demons, that they do not know which way one has to make progress. That they do not know. This is the defect of the modern civilization. They have universities, educational institution and advancement of knowledge, so on, so on. But ask them what is the aim of life, why education is being imparted, what is the purpose. These are... They do not know. Do they know?

Hamsaduta: No.

Prabhupada: They simply know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex, and how to defend. For this purpose they are giving education. That is... Does it require any education, how to eat? Everyone, even a child, he knows. You give him something eatable. Immediately takes and he knows it is to be put here, not there, not there. Natural. You don't require any education for these things, primary, I mean to say, wants of the body, eating, sleeping, sex. It doesn't require any high education, how to enjoy sex life. Everyone knows. Even the cats and dogs, they know. Similarly eating, everyone knows. Sleeping, it doesn't require that "You have to sleep in this way." Whenever you feel tired, there is sleep. But the asura-jana, they do not know what is the purpose of education. That they do not know.

This is... This is beginning of asuras' life, pravrtti and nivrtti. Pravrtti means the, what is called, incentive which makes... There is a grain of sugar, and the ant knows there is a grain of sugar. He is running after it. That is pravrtti. And nivrtti means I have passed my life in this way, but it is not actually my progress of life. I should stop this way of life. I should go to the spiritual realization. That is nivrtti-marga. There are two ways, pravrtti and nivrtti. Pravrtti means we are going to the dark, darkest region. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram. Because we cannot control our senses, adanta... Adanta means uncontrolled, and go, go means senses. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram. Just like we see varieties of life, so there is life also in the hell, tamisra. So either you go to the hellish condition of life or you go to the path of liberation, both ways are open to you. So if you go to the hellish condition of life, that is called pravrtti-marga, and if you go towards the path of liberation, that is nivrtti-marga.

Our, this Krsna consciousness movement is training of nivrtti-marga, the basic principles, so many no's. No means nivrtti. No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. So this is the no. "No" path. So that they do not know. When we say so many no's they think it is brainwash. Not brainwash. It is actual. If you want to develop your spiritual life, then you have to stop so many nuisance. That is nivrtti-marga. The asuras, they do not know. Because they do not know, when nivrtti-marga, "no," the path of "no" is recommended, they become angry. They become angry.

upadeso hi murkhanam
prakopaya na santaye
payah-panam bhujanganam
kevalam visa-vardhanam

Those who are rascals, fools, if you speak something valuable for his life he'll not hear you. He'll become angry. The example is given, payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. Just like if a snake, if you ask the snake that "I shall give you daily a cup of milk. Do not commit this harmful life, biting unnecessarily others. You come here, take a cup of milk and live peacefully," that he will not be able. He... By drinking, drinking that cup of milk, his poison will increase, and as soon as the poison is increased -- it is also another itching sensation -- he wants to bite. He'll bite. So the result will be payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. The more they starve, that is good for them because the poison will not increase.

The nature's law is there. And as soon as one sees a snake, immediately everyone becomes alert to kill the snake. And by nature's law... It is said, "Even a great saintly person, he does not lament when a snake is killed." Modeta sadhur api sarpa, vrscika-sarpa-hatya. Prahlada Maharaja said. When his father was killed and Nrsimhadeva was still angry, so he pacified Lord Nrsimha, "Sir, now you can give up your anger because nobody is unhappy on account of my father being killed," means "I am also not unhappy. I am also happy because my father was just like a snake and a scorpion. So even a great saintly person is happy when a scorpion or a snake is killed." They are not happy if somebody is killed. Even an ant is killed, a saintly person is unhappy. But a saintly person, when he sees that a snake is killed, he is happy. He is happy.

So we should not follow the life of a snake, pravrtti-marga. Human life is meant for nivrtti-marga. We have got so many bad habits. To give up these bad habits, that is human life. If we cannot do that, then we are not making any spiritual progress of life. Spiritual progress... So long you will have a little desire for committing sinful life for your sense gratification, you will have to accept a next body. And as soon as you accept a material body, then you will suffer. Yena.

It is said that nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. These rascals, they are mad. They are committing sinful life simply for sense gratification. There is no need of committing sinful life but for sense gratification they are doing that. So Rsabhadeva says, "It is not good because for sense gratification you have got already this body, and you know, experiencing, that you are suffering threefold miseries, and again you are committing something which will oblige you to accept another body. This is not good. No, this is not good." We should do in such a way that we may not accept again this material body. That will save us from all suffering.

Material body means it is given to you for your suffering. But that they do not know. They think, "I am enjoying." Eating, sleeping, mating -- in any body you will have these facilities. Visayah khalu sarvatah syat. Even you become a dog or you become a hog or you become a man or you become a demigod, these four facilities you will get everywhere, eating facility, sleeping facility, sex facilities and defense facility. You will get. Visayah khalu sarvatah syat. And the human form of life, these facilities should be minimized, denied. Not only minimized, no meat-eating, no illicit sex. That is nivrtti-marga. But the asuras, they do not know. Pravrttim ca nivrttim. That this life is meant for nivrtti-marga, they do not know. When you say, "Don't do this," they think otherwise.

Payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. Na saucam napi cacarah. And why they become addicted to sense gratification? Because they are not clean, saucam. Sauca is the qualification of brahmana. We are getting sacred thread but we are neglecting how to become, how to remain saucam, suci. Sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate. Suci means first-class brahmana. So we are accepting sacred thread to become first-class brahmana, suci, but we do not know, after eating, we have to wash our hand. We are taking the handkerchief and finished. So this kind of brahmana, what they will do? That is not even a civilized man. So you should be very, very careful how to follow the rules and regulation. That is nivrtti-marga. If we still remain in pravrtti-marga, then we will not be able to make any advance in spiritual life. And if we do not make advance in spiritual life, then again and again, sarira. Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Everyone is suffering on account of this body, and this human body is meant for ending this suffering. That should be the aim of life. But those who are asuras, they do not know how to end this life of suffering and accept the life of anandamayo 'bhyasat, simply ananda in Vaikuntha, in Goloka Vrndavana. Krsna, to live with Him as His associate, you have no information. We are demons, and therefore we take pleasure in so-called material activities. And that means we are doomed. We should stop this nonsense and take to the principles of nivrtti-marga. Then our life will be success. Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 16.7 -- Hyderabad, December 14, 1976